LDS Freedom Forum

Sirius wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:17 pm I don't doubt that. Good luck to you.

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:18 pm well, there are a few exceptions . . .like Samuel the lamanite . . . Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc . . . . was Noah "the" prophet? . . . he was "a"prophet . . .Alma the older . . . JS . . . um still thinking . . . but . . . it could happen . . . .cuz man has to work within the boundaries the Lord has given to avoid contention in the church . . . . but . .. God . . .

btw JS didn't have the priesthood or even baptism . . but saw God . . God didn't break the rules . . . but . . . its hard to explain why this happened outside of earthly authority . . .

God isn't contentious and can call anyone he wants . . . .did you know that those arrogant, prideful, self centered Nephites did NOT write the words of Samuel the Lamanite . . . when Christ was here visiting them and teaching them the gospel . . .in the promised land(wasn't America yet) then he asked them why they hadn't written the words of Samuel as he had told them to . . .

then . . he made them bring the records to him and told them to write his words . . .all in the BofM . . . even though Samuel was not in the "line of authority ' . . the other things I find interesting is: the prophets of that day were raising brothers from the dead, asking God for a famine instead of war . . and so on and so on . . . tremendous power and priesthood to do that . . . yet they were still too arrogant to write the words of a Lamanite . . .hmmmm . . . I personally think there is a message there . . the other thing I find interesting . . .

there is a saying that :pride cometh before the fall." is it a psalm or something ? anyway . . it's not true . . .lots of pride on our earth and IN the church and I'm still not even seeing the fall . . .may be it should have the words added . . "but don't expect the fall too soon." cuz God's grace has been extended to the Gentiles . . all of them . .

we all have a lot of things to add to the conversation in our world . . problem . . most people don't want to listen . . they want to be the talkers . . . which is ok . . . and . . . we all have pride . . . I've tried to walk away from pride, but . . . still there . . it keeps following me around . . won't let me go without it . . it sure use to let me keep myself from hearing others and considering the real world that I live in . . . .

the church may be true . . but . . .everything that I say may not be . . . if I listen and consider then I can change my mind for good or bad . . .even if it is spoken by one of those dirty, cursed Lamanites . . .

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:12 pm I'd much rather be in an echo chamber than be constantly verbally assaulted...

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:27 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:18 pm well, there are a few exceptions . . .like Samuel the lamanite . . . Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc . . . . was Noah "the" prophet? . . . he was "a"prophet . . .Alma the older . . . JS . . . um still thinking . . . but . . . it could happen . . . .cuz man has to work within the boundaries the Lord has given to avoid contention in the church . . . . but . .. God . . .

btw JS didn't have the priesthood or even baptism . . but saw God . . God didn't break the rules . . . but . . . its hard to explain why this happened outside of earthly authority . . .

God isn't contentious and can call anyone he wants . . . .did you know that those arrogant, prideful, self centered Nephites did NOT write the words of Samuel the Lamanite . . . when Christ was here visiting them and teaching them the gospel . . .in the promised land(wasn't America yet) then he asked them why they hadn't written the words of Samuel as he had told them to . . .

then . . he made them bring the records to him and told them to write his words . . .all in the BofM . . . even though Samuel was not in the "line of authority ' . . the other things I find interesting is: the prophets of that day were raising brothers from the dead, asking God for a famine instead of war . . and so on and so on . . . tremendous power and priesthood to do that . . . yet they were still too arrogant to write the words of a Lamanite . . .hmmmm . . . I personally think there is a message there . . the other thing I find interesting . . .

there is a saying that :pride cometh before the fall." is it a psalm or something ? anyway . . it's not true . . .lots of pride on our earth and IN the church and I'm still not even seeing the fall . . .may be it should have the words added . . "but don't expect the fall too soon." cuz God's grace has been extended to the Gentiles . . all of them . .

we all have a lot of things to add to the conversation in our world . . problem . . most people don't want to listen . . they want to be the talkers . . . which is ok . . . and . . . we all have pride . . . I've tried to walk away from pride, but . . . still there . . it keeps following me around . . won't let me go without it . . it sure use to let me keep myself from hearing others and considering the real world that I live in . . . .

the church may be true . . but . . .everything that I say may not be . . . if I listen and consider then I can change my mind for good or bad . . .even if it is spoken by one of those dirty, cursed Lamanites . . .

Yeah. This line of thinking has been around for some time.
That's how our buddy Snuffy justifies his claim to Davidic Servitude. That's how that one person, David something or other who I forget his name, who predicted that Betelgeuse would explode and it didn't happen, justified his claim to be the Davidic Servant. That's how the myriads of other people outside the hierarchy have justified themselves. Art Bulla, Terrill Dalton, Denver Snuffer, James Harmston, Warren Jeffs. The list goes on and on.

They all end up in obscurity (or in prison, like Jeffs and Dalton), and their movements never amount to anything, and never could do anything of the magnitude necessary to save both the living and the dead, to marshal the kind of work necessary in temples, and to marshal the necessary missionary force to prepare for the time of the second coming. They just simply are not producing a movement of the stature to be the true church at this stage of the game.

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:27 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:18 pm well, there are a few exceptions . . .like Samuel the lamanite . . . Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc . . . . was Noah "the" prophet? . . . he was "a"prophet . . .Alma the older . . . JS . . . um still thinking . . . but . . . it could happen . . . .cuz man has to work within the boundaries the Lord has given to avoid contention in the church . . . . but . .. God . . .

btw JS didn't have the priesthood or even baptism . . but saw God . . God didn't break the rules . . . but . . . its hard to explain why this happened outside of earthly authority . . .

God isn't contentious and can call anyone he wants . . . .did you know that those arrogant, prideful, self centered Nephites did NOT write the words of Samuel the Lamanite . . . when Christ was here visiting them and teaching them the gospel . . .in the promised land(wasn't America yet) then he asked them why they hadn't written the words of Samuel as he had told them to . . .

then . . he made them bring the records to him and told them to write his words . . .all in the BofM . . . even though Samuel was not in the "line of authority ' . . the other things I find interesting is: the prophets of that day were raising brothers from the dead, asking God for a famine instead of war . . and so on and so on . . . tremendous power and priesthood to do that . . . yet they were still too arrogant to write the words of a Lamanite . . .hmmmm . . . I personally think there is a message there . . the other thing I find interesting . . .

there is a saying that :pride cometh before the fall." is it a psalm or something ? anyway . . it's not true . . .lots of pride on our earth and IN the church and I'm still not even seeing the fall . . .may be it should have the words added . . "but don't expect the fall too soon." cuz God's grace has been extended to the Gentiles . . all of them . .

we all have a lot of things to add to the conversation in our world . . problem . . most people don't want to listen . . they want to be the talkers . . . which is ok . . . and . . . we all have pride . . . I've tried to walk away from pride, but . . . still there . . it keeps following me around . . won't let me go without it . . it sure use to let me keep myself from hearing others and considering the real world that I live in . . . .

the church may be true . . but . . .everything that I say may not be . . . if I listen and consider then I can change my mind for good or bad . . .even if it is spoken by one of those dirty, cursed Lamanites . . .

Yeah. This line of thinking has been around for some time.
That's how our buddy Snuffy justifies his claim to Davidic Servitude. That's how that one person, David something or other who I forget his name, who predicted that Betelgeuse would explode and it didn't happen, justified his claim to be the Davidic Servant. That's how the myriads of other people outside the hierarchy have justified themselves. Art Bulla, Terrill Dalton, Denver Snuffer, James Harmston, Warren Jeffs. The list goes on and on.

They all end up in obscurity (or in prison, like Jeffs and Dalton), and their movements never amount to anything, and never could do anything of the magnitude necessary to save both the living and the dead, to marshal the kind of work necessary in temples, and to marshal the necessary missionary force to prepare for the time of the second coming. They just simply are not producing a movement of the stature to be the true church at this stage of the game.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:28 pm

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:12 pm I'd much rather be in an echo chamber than be constantly verbally assaulted...

To be honest, I don't see much "verbal assault" on here. I think it's actually against the forum rules. Now, if you want to challenge someone doctrinally, and they get their undies in a bunch, then yeah, that happens all the time.

John Tavner wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:35 pm

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:27 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:18 pm well, there are a few exceptions . . .like Samuel the lamanite . . . Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc . . . . was Noah "the" prophet? . . . he was "a"prophet . . .Alma the older . . . JS . . . um still thinking . . . but . . . it could happen . . . .cuz man has to work within the boundaries the Lord has given to avoid contention in the church . . . . but . .. God . . .

btw JS didn't have the priesthood or even baptism . . but saw God . . God didn't break the rules . . . but . . . its hard to explain why this happened outside of earthly authority . . .

God isn't contentious and can call anyone he wants . . . .did you know that those arrogant, prideful, self centered Nephites did NOT write the words of Samuel the Lamanite . . . when Christ was here visiting them and teaching them the gospel . . .in the promised land(wasn't America yet) then he asked them why they hadn't written the words of Samuel as he had told them to . . .

then . . he made them bring the records to him and told them to write his words . . .all in the BofM . . . even though Samuel was not in the "line of authority ' . . the other things I find interesting is: the prophets of that day were raising brothers from the dead, asking God for a famine instead of war . . and so on and so on . . . tremendous power and priesthood to do that . . . yet they were still too arrogant to write the words of a Lamanite . . .hmmmm . . . I personally think there is a message there . . the other thing I find interesting . . .

there is a saying that :pride cometh before the fall." is it a psalm or something ? anyway . . it's not true . . .lots of pride on our earth and IN the church and I'm still not even seeing the fall . . .may be it should have the words added . . "but don't expect the fall too soon." cuz God's grace has been extended to the Gentiles . . all of them . .

we all have a lot of things to add to the conversation in our world . . problem . . most people don't want to listen . . they want to be the talkers . . . which is ok . . . and . . . we all have pride . . . I've tried to walk away from pride, but . . . still there . . it keeps following me around . . won't let me go without it . . it sure use to let me keep myself from hearing others and considering the real world that I live in . . . .

the church may be true . . but . . .everything that I say may not be . . . if I listen and consider then I can change my mind for good or bad . . .even if it is spoken by one of those dirty, cursed Lamanites . . .

Yeah. This line of thinking has been around for some time.
That's how our buddy Snuffy justifies his claim to Davidic Servitude. That's how that one person, David something or other who I forget his name, who predicted that Betelgeuse would explode and it didn't happen, justified his claim to be the Davidic Servant. That's how the myriads of other people outside the hierarchy have justified themselves. Art Bulla, Terrill Dalton, Denver Snuffer, James Harmston, Warren Jeffs. The list goes on and on.

They all end up in obscurity (or in prison, like Jeffs and Dalton), and their movements never amount to anything, and never could do anything of the magnitude necessary to save both the living and the dead, to marshal the kind of work necessary in temples, and to marshal the necessary missionary force to prepare for the time of the second coming. They just simply are not producing a movement of the stature to be the true church at this stage of the game.

Out of curiosity, by your metric, how would you have judged the "true" church in the days after Jesus was crucified? Most of the Apostles were murdered or killed within 50 years of having established their churches and the cohesiveness (which wasn't too cohesive in the first place - Jews practiced a bit differently than Gentiles, but both believed in Christ) certainly didn't exist much after that...So does it bear "fruit" of a true church in your opinion?

To be clear I don't agree with any of those groups you mentioned above, but I don't believe a failure to continue is a metric of a true church. I also don't believe there needs to be a certain "movement" of a single organization, the requirement is that the gospel is shared with the world and the gospel is not an organization.

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:28 pm Samuel's words are cannonized in our scriptures as doctrine

JS saw the Father and the Son . . . no preparations like we see today . . no advancement int he priesthood . . .no callings like stake pres, bishop, temple pres, general ss leader, etc. . . . no one with authority to go to like Moses had or Abraham had . . . or the apostles of Jesus had . . . same God . . .same Jesus . . same program as today . . but one might not recognize God's hand in these men's lives if they expect . . .um . . uh . . . well . .

being born into the church or converted for years makes a funny group of people out of us, now, doesn't it . . . we just can't imagine anything different or God doing anything outside our little organization . . not so . . .brother

PaulRevereLDS wrote: And maybe here's a clue. David Whitmer said:

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 6:03 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:28 pm Samuel's words are cannonized in our scriptures as doctrine

JS saw the Father and the Son . . . no preparations like we see today . . no advancement int he priesthood . . .no callings like stake pres, bishop, temple pres, general ss leader, etc. . . . no one with authority to go to like Moses had or Abraham had . . . or the apostles of Jesus had . . . same God . . .same Jesus . . same program as today . . but one might not recognize God's hand in these men's lives if they expect . . .um . . uh . . . well . .

being born into the church or converted for years makes a funny group of people out of us, now, doesn't it . . . we just can't imagine anything different or God doing anything outside our little organization . . not so . . .brother

You can believe whatever you want.
Someone else, on the other hand, may look at these things in the traditional sense.
What does your concept of the Spirit lead you to believe on these points? If whatever you make out to be the Holy Ghost that you follow leads you in whatever direction, I suppose you can go with that.
That's the problem with all of those Holy Ghosts giving everybody different answers who are different prophets. My snufferite friend bears testimony to me about Denver and does it with all the heartfelt emotion of a TBM. But the Holy Ghost that is in harmony with the Brethren gives one definite answer that I have felt. Choose ye this day.

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 6:03 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:28 pm Samuel's words are cannonized in our scriptures as doctrine

JS saw the Father and the Son . . . no preparations like we see today . . no advancement int he priesthood . . .no callings like stake pres, bishop, temple pres, general ss leader, etc. . . . no one with authority to go to like Moses had or Abraham had . . . or the apostles of Jesus had . . . same God . . .same Jesus . . same program as today . . but one might not recognize God's hand in these men's lives if they expect . . .um . . uh . . . well . .

being born into the church or converted for years makes a funny group of people out of us, now, doesn't it . . . we just can't imagine anything different or God doing anything outside our little organization . . not so . . .brother

You can believe whatever you want.
Someone else, on the other hand, may look at these things in the traditional sense.
What does your concept of the Spirit lead you to believe on these points? If whatever you make out to be the Holy Ghost that you follow leads you in whatever direction, I suppose you can go with that.
That's the problem with all of those Holy Ghosts giving everybody different answers who are different prophets. My snufferite friend bears testimony to me about Denver and does it with all the heartfelt emotion of a TBM. But the Holy Ghost that is in harmony with the Brethren gives one definite answer that I have felt. Choose ye this day.

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 1:07 pm

The Creator wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 4:51 pm

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 3:59 pm I used to be on here a long time ago. ... This place has turned "dark," so to speak.... become more and more anti-Brethren and anti-"Brethrenite," ... where we can post unmolested by evil speaking of the Lord's anointed and continual anti-Brethren drivel...
I think the time has finally come that we need our own "space," unmolested by this kind of stuff.

Mostly I would just re-state what iWriteStuff already said. Additionally..

You think this forum has turned "dark", there are other places you can go like r/latterdaysaints/ (reddit).

You say LDSFF "has become more and more anti-Brethren and anti-'Brethrenite'".. I wouldn't call it "anti" but what you are observing is a result of people valuing truth and correct principles, and so their reaction to the actions of the "brethren" is just a natural result, especially over the past couple of years, as the Church has merged more and more with Babylon. You don't have to believe or acknowledge that but it is true. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, "the majority here are Joseph Smith/Book of Mormon believers" and many are recognizing the Church has strayed far from those roots.

I reject your interpretation of "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed". Speaking truth is not 'evil speaking'.

I wouldn't want to spend my time catering to these requests.

Thanks for that. Now I know where this has gone and where you stand. I see that those like me have no future here. You should remove "LDS" then from the name of your forum, if you aren't going to cater to and make space for those not of your mindset, who have stuck with the brethren.
Apostate is subjective, because from the Church's perspective, people that don't stick with the Brethren are those that are astray. That's the primary definition of apostate, especially from the point of view of which way the established authority is taking things.
You say you speak the truth, and that isn't evil speaking? What if your "truth" takes people away from the truth and goes beyond the mark, in the sense that what the perception of truth was back in the day was only an approximation, and now things are going closer to the truth than it was before? What if changes are made in the Church for reasons you don't comprehend? What if they are ways that the Church needs to navigate for temporary purposes that the Lord has, and then the time will come later for a return to older principles and methods? What then becomes of your "truth" when you didn't stick with the programme, when the Lord had a reason for the navigation in a certain direction that you disagree with. In other words, it doesn't matter what you personally believe. You ought to stick with the programme and allow the Church to go the direction it needs to go to navigate the ocean. You don't see the dangers that the prophets and seers and revelators see. If you did, you would go the same direction they go, according to the timing they choose to go in that direction. In other words, you ought to let the institution do what it has to do for its own sake regardless of what you personally believe, and you hadn't ought to find fault that the direction it had to go was based on a particular necessity that you don't fathom, maybe even only a temporary one, where maybe it will go back to something else later.
For you to stand your ground when the Church has gone another direction is exactly what happens when everyone thinks they know better than the brethren. That's what happened with every other restorationist schism in history. You've heard it all before. Why should I say it again?

So, while the definition of apostate is subjective, there is only one definition of apostate that is the official one. that's the only one that matters, both for personal salvation, as well as having good standing with established authority.

Being There wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 8:01 pm

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 6:03 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:28 pm Samuel's words are cannonized in our scriptures as doctrine

JS saw the Father and the Son . . . no preparations like we see today . . no advancement int he priesthood . . .no callings like stake pres, bishop, temple pres, general ss leader, etc. . . . no one with authority to go to like Moses had or Abraham had . . . or the apostles of Jesus had . . . same God . . .same Jesus . . same program as today . . but one might not recognize God's hand in these men's lives if they expect . . .um . . uh . . . well . .

being born into the church or converted for years makes a funny group of people out of us, now, doesn't it . . . we just can't imagine anything different or God doing anything outside our little organization . . not so . . .brother

You can believe whatever you want.
Someone else, on the other hand, may look at these things in the traditional sense.
What does your concept of the Spirit lead you to believe on these points? If whatever you make out to be the Holy Ghost that you follow leads you in whatever direction, I suppose you can go with that.
That's the problem with all of those Holy Ghosts giving everybody different answers who are different prophets. My snufferite friend bears testimony to me about Denver and does it with all the heartfelt emotion of a TBM. But the Holy Ghost that is in harmony with the Brethren gives one definite answer that I have felt. Choose ye this day.

"Holy Ghost that is in harmony with the Brethren " !
give me a break.
What a bunch of BS.. I'm so tired of hearing that from men worshipers.

I guess your idea and what you think the Holy Ghost is -
is very different from those that don't idolize these - these Drunkards of Ephraim (Isa.28)
who the Lord hurls to the ground.
viewtopic.php?p=1226834&hilit=Drunkards ... m#p1226834

If you call this in harmony with the Holy Ghost - like them - you have been completely deceived
and are not listening to the Holy Ghost - but some other spirit.

Nelson, is under the delusion, that he's led by God;
just like this "Godsend".
godsend" - so ridiculous to say such a thing, That alone shows Nelson's a false prophet.

The church is led by a false prophet -
leading thousands of members away from the Lord;
and many, even to their death.

His example alone - asking his followers to be "GOOD GLOBAL CITIZENS"
and follow him and join with those World leaders - who he follows - and who serve satan -
speaks for itself.

"WE HAVE PRAYED FOR THIS LITERAL GODSEND.
RECEIVING THE VACCINE IS PART OF OUR PERSONAL EFFORTS TO BE
GOOD GLOBAL CITIZENS"
RMN



as far as Nelson - and who he thinks he is - "pride cometh before the fall"

and those that still think that "all is well in Zion" -
may want to reconsider;
and come to the realization - that the church is not doing the Lord's will,
but the will of evil men - who control them - and the World.

You actually think the Lord would have these men - these hypocrites
that have joined with and take orders - not from God, but serve and follow these evil leaders of the World
who serve satan - you actually believe that the Lord would have these men lead His church !


President Nelson - Prophetic !
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56354&p=1053532&hil ... c#p1053532


and as far as - The Holy Ghost -
They don't have it.
They don't have anything.

"the spirit of prophecy"

quote

"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy."
not just listen to nice talks

If Jesus himself has said -

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part

"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).

As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is
and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.

The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.

As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy.
We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4)

All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!

When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?

Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.

The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?

Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness.

If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 2:28 pm

Fred wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 7:08 pm I suggest that you take advantage of the opportunity in front of your face. Being on the right side of things is a big deal. I mean the same side as Jesus. Or maybe you don't like your family and do not want to be with them after you croak.

I won't take personally some of what you said.

But you have no idea who you are talking to. Just because I have "first principles," as one person calls it on this thread, in common with TBMs, I am one of the most nuanced and careful thinkers you have ever encountered or will. I'm one of the most well read people on the Internet as I see it, and have engaged with the most vile Anti-Mormons on the Mormon Discussion board and sparred toe to toe with the most arrogant Apologists that exist in this Church, for a very very long time. I just choose not to go the route of contention anymore. I have presented at Sunstone, and I have been interviewed on podcasts, and am not stupid, and while I am not famous, I am not an unknown on the Bloggernacle and other realms. I know the doctrine inside and out, more profoundly than most. My productions are not entirely unknown, although they are certainly not as famous as Rod Meldrum's productions.

I am not an idiot, sir, notwithstanding you disagree with me. You ought to know a little bit about who you are speaking to before you speak, just in case you were wondering. While I choose not to directly identify myself, I will at least reveal a little of my resume so you know I am not an idiot.

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:12 pm I'd much rather be in an echo chamber than be constantly verbally assaulted

Being There wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 8:01 pm

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 6:03 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:28 pm Samuel's words are cannonized in our scriptures as doctrine

JS saw the Father and the Son . . . no preparations like we see today . . no advancement int he priesthood . . .no callings like stake pres, bishop, temple pres, general ss leader, etc. . . . no one with authority to go to like Moses had or Abraham had . . . or the apostles of Jesus had . . . same God . . .same Jesus . . same program as today . . but one might not recognize God's hand in these men's lives if they expect . . .um . . uh . . . well . .

being born into the church or converted for years makes a funny group of people out of us, now, doesn't it . . . we just can't imagine anything different or God doing anything outside our little organization . . not so . . .brother

You can believe whatever you want.
Someone else, on the other hand, may look at these things in the traditional sense.
What does your concept of the Spirit lead you to believe on these points? If whatever you make out to be the Holy Ghost that you follow leads you in whatever direction, I suppose you can go with that.
That's the problem with all of those Holy Ghosts giving everybody different answers who are different prophets. My snufferite friend bears testimony to me about Denver and does it with all the heartfelt emotion of a TBM. But the Holy Ghost that is in harmony with the Brethren gives one definite answer that I have felt. Choose ye this day.

"Holy Ghost that is in harmony with the Brethren " !
give me a break.
What a bunch of BS.. I'm so tired of hearing that from men worshipers.

I guess your idea and what you think the Holy Ghost is -
is very different from those that don't idolize these - these Drunkards of Ephraim (Isa.28)
who the Lord hurls to the ground.
viewtopic.php?p=1226834&hilit=Drunkards ... m#p1226834

If you call this in harmony with the Holy Ghost - like them - you have been completely deceived
and are not listening to the Holy Ghost - but some other spirit.

Nelson, is under the delusion, that he's led by God;
just like this "Godsend".
godsend" - so ridiculous to say such a thing, That alone shows Nelson's a false prophet.

The church is led by a false prophet -
leading thousands of members away from the Lord;
and many, even to their death.

His example alone - asking his followers to be "GOOD GLOBAL CITIZENS"
and follow him and join with those World leaders - who he follows - and who serve satan -
speaks for itself.

"WE HAVE PRAYED FOR THIS LITERAL GODSEND.
RECEIVING THE VACCINE IS PART OF OUR PERSONAL EFFORTS TO BE
GOOD GLOBAL CITIZENS"
RMN



as far as Nelson - and who he thinks he is - "pride cometh before the fall"

and those that still think that "all is well in Zion" -
may want to reconsider;
and come to the realization - that the church is not doing the Lord's will,
but the will of evil men - who control them - and the World.

You actually think the Lord would have these men - these hypocrites
that have joined with and take orders - not from God, but serve and follow these evil leaders of the World
who serve satan - you actually believe that the Lord would have these men lead His church !


President Nelson - Prophetic !
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56354&p=1053532&hil ... c#p1053532


and as far as - The Holy Ghost -
They don't have it.
They don't have anything.

"the spirit of prophecy"

quote

"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy."
not just listen to nice talks

If Jesus himself has said -

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part

"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).

As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is
and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.

The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.

As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy.
We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4)

All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!

When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?

Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.

The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?

Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness.

If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 3:53 pm

BeNotDeceived wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 2:50 pm What doth thou believe and/or know about the Davidic Servant

I guess thats a good subject for a separate thread on what some TBMs believe about the Davidic Servant.

I'll tell you what I don't believe. I don't believe the Davidic Servant will arise outside of established hierarchy.

And maybe here's a clue. David Whitmer said:

When will the temple be built in Independence?

Answer: Right after the great tribulation is over

Question: What do you mean by that?

Answer: A civil war more bloody and cruel than the rebellion. It will be the smashing up of this nation, about which time the second great work has to be done, a work like Joseph did, and the translation of the sealed plates and peace all over.

Now, as a TBM point of view would have it, can such a thing be done without being a Prophet, Seer and Revelator in the proper line of authority from Brigham Young, and that continues through RMN? Will the Davidic Servant be anything less than this? He will be a successor to Russell M. Nelson is what he will be, and he will be President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at the time. And he will have a gift of seership of a degree that no seer has had since the time of Joseph Smith, because none of the ones since Joseph Smith have had the need for that kind of seership gift to produce new ancient scripture. And people with certain built-in spiritual gifts arise when they are needed, and no sooner.

That is part of the fallacy about finding fault with current prophets who may not personally have a built-in gift of seership in their soul by descent or by spiritual heritage, but who are seers by calling. That's like expecting that every Bishop that is ever called is equal in spirituality, which is simply not the case.

Suffice it to say that a man will become President of the Church at the time of the Building of the New Jerusalem who will have the same kind of innate gift of the spirit of seership and to the same degree that Joseph Smith had, and not just by virtue of calling.

Being There wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 10:21 pm

Being There wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 8:01 pm

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 6:03 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 4:28 pm Samuel's words are cannonized in our scriptures as doctrine

JS saw the Father and the Son . . . no preparations like we see today . . no advancement int he priesthood . . .no callings like stake pres, bishop, temple pres, general ss leader, etc. . . . no one with authority to go to like Moses had or Abraham had . . . or the apostles of Jesus had . . . same God . . .same Jesus . . same program as today . . but one might not recognize God's hand in these men's lives if they expect . . .um . . uh . . . well . .

being born into the church or converted for years makes a funny group of people out of us, now, doesn't it . . . we just can't imagine anything different or God doing anything outside our little organization . . not so . . .brother

You can believe whatever you want.
Someone else, on the other hand, may look at these things in the traditional sense.
What does your concept of the Spirit lead you to believe on these points? If whatever you make out to be the Holy Ghost that you follow leads you in whatever direction, I suppose you can go with that.
That's the problem with all of those Holy Ghosts giving everybody different answers who are different prophets. My snufferite friend bears testimony to me about Denver and does it with all the heartfelt emotion of a TBM. But the Holy Ghost that is in harmony with the Brethren gives one definite answer that I have felt. Choose ye this day.

"Holy Ghost that is in harmony with the Brethren " !
give me a break.
What a bunch of BS.. I'm so tired of hearing that from men worshipers.

I guess your idea and what you think the Holy Ghost is -
is very different from those that don't idolize these - these Drunkards of Ephraim (Isa.28)
who the Lord hurls to the ground.
viewtopic.php?p=1226834&hilit=Drunkards ... m#p1226834

If you call this in harmony with the Holy Ghost - like them - you have been completely deceived
and are not listening to the Holy Ghost - but some other spirit.

Nelson, is under the delusion, that he's led by God;
just like this "Godsend".
godsend" - so ridiculous to say such a thing, That alone shows Nelson's a false prophet.

The church is led by a false prophet -
leading thousands of members away from the Lord;
and many, even to their death.

His example alone - asking his followers to be "GOOD GLOBAL CITIZENS"
and follow him and join with those World leaders - who he follows - and who serve satan -
speaks for itself.

"WE HAVE PRAYED FOR THIS LITERAL GODSEND.
RECEIVING THE VACCINE IS PART OF OUR PERSONAL EFFORTS TO BE
GOOD GLOBAL CITIZENS"
RMN



as far as Nelson - and who he thinks he is - "pride cometh before the fall"

and those that still think that "all is well in Zion" -
may want to reconsider;
and come to the realization - that the church is not doing the Lord's will,
but the will of evil men - who control them - and the World.

You actually think the Lord would have these men - these hypocrites
that have joined with and take orders - not from God, but serve and follow these evil leaders of the World
who serve satan - you actually believe that the Lord would have these men lead His church !


President Nelson - Prophetic !
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56354&p=1053532&hil ... c#p1053532


and as far as - The Holy Ghost -
They don't have it.
They don't have anything.

"the spirit of prophecy"

quote

"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy."
not just listen to nice talks

If Jesus himself has said -

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part

"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).

As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is
and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.

The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.

As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy.
We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4)

All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!

When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?

Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.

The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?

Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness.

If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."

I will say one thing though about the Q15 -
they're really good at reading their Conference talks that others have helped them prepare for 6 mo.

What inspiration....
Oh how they speak with the power of the Holy Ghost.

The Q 15 are no more anointed than those phony preachers that marry people in Vegas,
or those false prophets that put their hand on the persons forehead
and the person falls down, supposedly because the power of His ‘presence’ is overwhelming.

BuriedTartaria wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 7:53 pm I wonder how many True Blue members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seeking a safe place to discuss their PSRs were glad to see the Remnant movement lose their place like that here?