LDS Freedom Forum

nightlight wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 7:23 pm

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 3:59 pm I used to be on here a long time ago.

I am now back with this new username, mostly lurking now (or that is my plan). I intend to start fresh under this new identity. I don't think that I will be posting much, because I don't feel a kinship that I used to feel with most people here. This place has turned "dark," so to speak.

It is obvious that this forum has become more and more anti-Brethren and anti-"Brethrenite," despite the fact that the majority here are Joseph Smith/Book of Mormon believers.

Since you used to have kind of a sub-forum here for the Snufferites, I suggest that you now do something similar for us TBMs. Create a sub forum for the Brethrenites/TBMs where we can post unmolested by evil speaking of the Lord's anointed and continual anti-Brethren drivel, and I suggest that you make that be the requirement for that sub-forum or people get kicked off of it.

I think the time has finally come that we need our own "space," unmolested by this kind of stuff.

Thanks.

It's funny because that's what this place is to a lot of people in here...just from an opposite perspective.
I find myself having less and less in common with everyone(LDS&Christians)... including those on LDSFF. Perhaps I'll fade away in the months to come.

In the short time I’ve been n the forum I have appreciated your voice. I hope you stick around, too.

How about you create an Instagram or Facebook account PRLDS? There are plenty of members who believe that Rusty has lunch with the Savior everyday? LDSFF is one of the few places where you can actually discuss the church without either the anti or the unquestioning member attitude. It's an open forum

nightlight wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 7:23 pm It's funny because that's what this place is to a lot of people in here...just from an opposite perspective.
I find myself having less and less in common with everyone(LDS&Christians)... including those on LDSFF. Perhaps I'll fade away in the months to come.

I'm having similar feelings... or my give a damn button stopped working. Or Spring is nearly here and there's a helluva lot of things to do before planting season. There's a point where you have to let go.

One TBM is not quite the same as another. I think what binds them together is agreeing with the leadership and being temple worthy etc but a wide range within that.

It’s a dumb idea. We need a TBM safe space on LDSFF. What about a pro polygamy safe space on LDSFF? And a pro gay safe space on LDSFF?

If you need a safe space from anything on LDSFF, maybe LDSFF isn’t the right place for you.

Lexew1899 wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 6:25 am It’s a dumb idea. We need a TBM safe space on LDSFF. What about a pro polygamy safe space on LDSFF? And a pro gay safe space on LDSFF?

If you need a safe space from anything on LDSFF, maybe LDSFF isn’t the right place for you.

I was thinking we need a pro iWriteStuff safe space. I’ve been wanting to create my own fiefdom. Heck, I could even be my own moderator.

That being said, I’m sure I’d be too short of minions to organize an effective coup against the other territories

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 7:16 am

Lexew1899 wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 6:25 am It’s a dumb idea. We need a TBM safe space on LDSFF. What about a pro polygamy safe space on LDSFF? And a pro gay safe space on LDSFF?

If you need a safe space from anything on LDSFF, maybe LDSFF isn’t the right place for you.

I was thinking we need a pro iWriteStuff safe space. I’ve been wanting to create my own fiefdom. Heck, I could even be my own moderator.

That being said, I’m sure I’d be too short of minions to organize an effective coup against the other territories

You could have your own bot that would reply to you with opinions supposed to be similar to your own.

Sounds like most of the net nowadays.

Open request to the "Creator" of this thread:

Go back to reddit

Such a spicy thread!

OPMissionary wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 11:27 am Open request to the "Creator" of this thread:

Go back to reddit

OP r/latterdaysaints is the place for you. It should meet or exceed all of your requirements and expectations. But be careful. Put a toe out of line and they'll ban you in a New York minute!

Mindfields wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 12:09 pm ...be careful. Put a toe out of line and they'll ban you in a New York minute!

I think I'd fit in well there.

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 4:59 pm PRLDS . . . you asked for it . . .I am gonna laugh my way through these posts . . .reading the comments to your questions . . . .done it before . . laughed when someone else made complaints on this forum like you just did . . . . if you have been lurking then you should have known better . . .

So I see that you have become part of the Great and Spacious Building. You can be proud of that... I guess.
Should have known better in what way?

The Creator wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 4:51 pm

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 3:59 pm I used to be on here a long time ago. ... This place has turned "dark," so to speak.... become more and more anti-Brethren and anti-"Brethrenite," ... where we can post unmolested by evil speaking of the Lord's anointed and continual anti-Brethren drivel...
I think the time has finally come that we need our own "space," unmolested by this kind of stuff.

Mostly I would just re-state what iWriteStuff already said. Additionally..

You think this forum has turned "dark", there are other places you can go like r/latterdaysaints/ (reddit).

You say LDSFF "has become more and more anti-Brethren and anti-'Brethrenite'".. I wouldn't call it "anti" but what you are observing is a result of people valuing truth and correct principles, and so their reaction to the actions of the "brethren" is just a natural result, especially over the past couple of years, as the Church has merged more and more with Babylon. You don't have to believe or acknowledge that but it is true. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, "the majority here are Joseph Smith/Book of Mormon believers" and many are recognizing the Church has strayed far from those roots.

I reject your interpretation of "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed". Speaking truth is not 'evil speaking'.

I wouldn't want to spend my time catering to these requests.

Thanks for that. Now I know where this has gone and where you stand. I see that those like me have no future here. You should remove "LDS" then from the name of your forum, if you aren't going to cater to and make space for those not of your mindset, who have stuck with the brethren.
Apostate is subjective, because from the Church's perspective, people that don't stick with the Brethren are those that are astray. That's the primary definition of apostate, especially from the point of view of which way the established authority is taking things.
You say you speak the truth, and that isn't evil speaking? What if your "truth" takes people away from the truth and goes beyond the mark, in the sense that what the perception of truth was back in the day was only an approximation, and now things are going closer to the truth than it was before? What if changes are made in the Church for reasons you don't comprehend? What if they are ways that the Church needs to navigate for temporary purposes that the Lord has, and then the time will come later for a return to older principles and methods? What then becomes of your "truth" when you didn't stick with the programme, when the Lord had a reason for the navigation in a certain direction that you disagree with. In other words, it doesn't matter what you personally believe. You ought to stick with the programme and allow the Church to go the direction it needs to go to navigate the ocean. You don't see the dangers that the prophets and seers and revelators see. If you did, you would go the same direction they go, according to the timing they choose to go in that direction. In other words, you ought to let the institution do what it has to do for its own sake regardless of what you personally believe, and you hadn't ought to find fault that the direction it had to go was based on a particular necessity that you don't fathom, maybe even only a temporary one, where maybe it will go back to something else later.
For you to stand your ground when the Church has gone another direction is exactly what happens when everyone thinks they know better than the brethren. That's what happened with every other restorationist schism in history. You've heard it all before. Why should I say it again?

So, while the definition of apostate is subjective, there is only one definition of apostate that is the official one. that's the only one that matters, both for personal salvation, as well as having good standing with established authority.

BroJones wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 5:57 pm Suggestion,
1 identify those you would like on the sub.forum
2 request from the creator to set up a private sub.forum with just those names...who could see it and post.
3. Basically, one of the members would moderate.

Might be worth a try, if the Creator would agree, as a trial balloon.
I would like to see this...

Creator said he already doesn't agree, and isn't going to waste his time. its moot point. The thread has already run its course. Its a dead point.

So, while the definition of apostate is subjective, there is only one definition of apostate that is the official one. that's the only one that matters, both for personal salvation, as well as having good standing with established authority.

“Good standing with established authority” is a false and fickle god.

Summary of this thread:

OP: Hey, this great and spacious building is trash, can I have my own room?

FF: No.

OP: Go to hell apostates!

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 1:07 pm

The Creator wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 4:51 pm

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 3:59 pm I used to be on here a long time ago. ... This place has turned "dark," so to speak.... become more and more anti-Brethren and anti-"Brethrenite," ... where we can post unmolested by evil speaking of the Lord's anointed and continual anti-Brethren drivel...
I think the time has finally come that we need our own "space," unmolested by this kind of stuff.

Mostly I would just re-state what iWriteStuff already said. Additionally..

You think this forum has turned "dark", there are other places you can go like r/latterdaysaints/ (reddit).

You say LDSFF "has become more and more anti-Brethren and anti-'Brethrenite'".. I wouldn't call it "anti" but what you are observing is a result of people valuing truth and correct principles, and so their reaction to the actions of the "brethren" is just a natural result, especially over the past couple of years, as the Church has merged more and more with Babylon. You don't have to believe or acknowledge that but it is true. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, "the majority here are Joseph Smith/Book of Mormon believers" and many are recognizing the Church has strayed far from those roots.

I reject your interpretation of "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed". Speaking truth is not 'evil speaking'.

I wouldn't want to spend my time catering to these requests.

Thanks for that. Now I know where this has gone and where you stand. I see that those like me have no future here. You should remove "LDS" then from the name of your forum, if you aren't going to cater to and make space for those not of your mindset, who have stuck with the brethren.
Apostate is subjective, because from the Church's perspective, people that don't stick with the Brethren are those that are astray. That's the primary definition of apostate, especially from the point of view of which way the established authority is taking things.
You say you speak the truth, and that isn't evil speaking? What if your "truth" takes people away from the truth and goes beyond the mark, in the sense that what the perception of truth was back in the day was only an approximation, and now things are going closer to the truth than it was before? What if changes are made in the Church for reasons you don't comprehend? What if they are ways that the Church needs to navigate for temporary purposes that the Lord has, and then the time will come later for a return to older principles and methods? What then becomes of your "truth" when you didn't stick with the programme, when the Lord had a reason for the navigation in a certain direction that you disagree with. In other words, it doesn't matter what you personally believe. You ought to stick with the programme and allow the Church to go the direction it needs to go to navigate the ocean. You don't see the dangers that the prophets and seers and revelators see. If you did, you would go the same direction they go, according to the timing they choose to go in that direction. In other words, you ought to let the institution do what it has to do for its own sake regardless of what you personally believe, and you hadn't ought to find fault that the direction it had to go was based on a particular necessity that you don't fathom, maybe even only a temporary one, where maybe it will go back to something else later.
For you to stand your ground when the Church has gone another direction is exactly what happens when everyone thinks they know better than the brethren. That's what happened with every other restorationist schism in history. You've heard it all before. Why should I say it again?

So, while the definition of apostate is subjective, there is only one definition of apostate that is the official one. that's the only one that matters, both for personal salvation, as well as having good standing with established authority.

Please take a moment and read the highlighted words. Then decide if you are following the Brethren or Christ.

Edit:highlight

Ebenezer wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 1:44 pm Summary of this thread:

OP: Hey, this great and spacious building is trash, can I have my own room?

FF: No.

OP: Go to hell apostates!

No. More like: Me: hey guys, can WE who you trash on have our own room to have some peace?

You: No. We need to be able to trash on you, because we know better than prophets. Tough beans. Take it or leave it.

You: You should have known better because I'm going to point fingers at you and laugh at you.

Me: You, a Book of Mormon believer, ought to realize that what you have become is this one thing in the book of Mormon right? The one thing in Lehi's dream. Aren't you concerned with that?

You: Heck no, because we know the truth, and we will continue to point the finger and jeer. We are the true Book of Mormon believers, and your prophets don't prophesy, and your seers don't see, because we don't see why they do what they do, and we know better.

Fred wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 1:54 pm

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 1:07 pm

The Creator wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 4:51 pm

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 3:59 pm I used to be on here a long time ago. ... This place has turned "dark," so to speak.... become more and more anti-Brethren and anti-"Brethrenite," ... where we can post unmolested by evil speaking of the Lord's anointed and continual anti-Brethren drivel...
I think the time has finally come that we need our own "space," unmolested by this kind of stuff.

Mostly I would just re-state what iWriteStuff already said. Additionally..

You think this forum has turned "dark", there are other places you can go like r/latterdaysaints/ (reddit).

You say LDSFF "has become more and more anti-Brethren and anti-'Brethrenite'".. I wouldn't call it "anti" but what you are observing is a result of people valuing truth and correct principles, and so their reaction to the actions of the "brethren" is just a natural result, especially over the past couple of years, as the Church has merged more and more with Babylon. You don't have to believe or acknowledge that but it is true. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, "the majority here are Joseph Smith/Book of Mormon believers" and many are recognizing the Church has strayed far from those roots.

I reject your interpretation of "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed". Speaking truth is not 'evil speaking'.

I wouldn't want to spend my time catering to these requests.

Thanks for that. Now I know where this has gone and where you stand. I see that those like me have no future here. You should remove "LDS" then from the name of your forum, if you aren't going to cater to and make space for those not of your mindset, who have stuck with the brethren.
Apostate is subjective, because from the Church's perspective, people that don't stick with the Brethren are those that are astray. That's the primary definition of apostate, especially from the point of view of which way the established authority is taking things.
You say you speak the truth, and that isn't evil speaking? What if your "truth" takes people away from the truth and goes beyond the mark, in the sense that what the perception of truth was back in the day was only an approximation, and now things are going closer to the truth than it was before? What if changes are made in the Church for reasons you don't comprehend? What if they are ways that the Church needs to navigate for temporary purposes that the Lord has, and then the time will come later for a return to older principles and methods? What then becomes of your "truth" when you didn't stick with the programme, when the Lord had a reason for the navigation in a certain direction that you disagree with. In other words, it doesn't matter what you personally believe. You ought to stick with the programme and allow the Church to go the direction it needs to go to navigate the ocean. You don't see the dangers that the prophets and seers and revelators see. If you did, you would go the same direction they go, according to the timing they choose to go in that direction. In other words, you ought to let the institution do what it has to do for its own sake regardless of what you personally believe, and you hadn't ought to find fault that the direction it had to go was based on a particular necessity that you don't fathom, maybe even only a temporary one, where maybe it will go back to something else later.
For you to stand your ground when the Church has gone another direction is exactly what happens when everyone thinks they know better than the brethren. That's what happened with every other restorationist schism in history. You've heard it all before. Why should I say it again?

So, while the definition of apostate is subjective, there is only one definition of apostate that is the official one. that's the only one that matters, both for personal salvation, as well as having good standing with established authority.

Please take a moment and read the highlighted words. Then decide if you are following the Brethren or Christ.

Ok. You have already decided that following the Brethren is not following Christ.
Pres RMN consistently says that the brethren point the way to Christ. You follow the brethren, and you follow Christ at the same time. You Don't follow the brethren, you are not following Christ. That's the TBM position. It's not yours. You have decided that following the Brethren and following Christ are two separate things. You are a binary thinker, and you set up false dichotomies. Therefore, you are not a profound thinker in the sense that you have set up that false dichotomy, a logical fallacy, mind you, and you have made it your mantra for your belief system, which certainly is not the TBM belief system.

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 1:59 pm

Fred wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 1:54 pm

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 1:07 pm

The Creator wrote: ↑April 6th, 2022, 4:51 pm
Mostly I would just re-state what iWriteStuff already said. Additionally..

You think this forum has turned "dark", there are other places you can go like r/latterdaysaints/ (reddit).

You say LDSFF "has become more and more anti-Brethren and anti-'Brethrenite'".. I wouldn't call it "anti" but what you are observing is a result of people valuing truth and correct principles, and so their reaction to the actions of the "brethren" is just a natural result, especially over the past couple of years, as the Church has merged more and more with Babylon. You don't have to believe or acknowledge that but it is true. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, "the majority here are Joseph Smith/Book of Mormon believers" and many are recognizing the Church has strayed far from those roots.

I reject your interpretation of "evil speaking of the Lord's anointed". Speaking truth is not 'evil speaking'.

I wouldn't want to spend my time catering to these requests.

Thanks for that. Now I know where this has gone and where you stand. I see that those like me have no future here. You should remove "LDS" then from the name of your forum, if you aren't going to cater to and make space for those not of your mindset, who have stuck with the brethren.
Apostate is subjective, because from the Church's perspective, people that don't stick with the Brethren are those that are astray. That's the primary definition of apostate, especially from the point of view of which way the established authority is taking things.
You say you speak the truth, and that isn't evil speaking? What if your "truth" takes people away from the truth and goes beyond the mark, in the sense that what the perception of truth was back in the day was only an approximation, and now things are going closer to the truth than it was before? What if changes are made in the Church for reasons you don't comprehend? What if they are ways that the Church needs to navigate for temporary purposes that the Lord has, and then the time will come later for a return to older principles and methods? What then becomes of your "truth" when you didn't stick with the programme, when the Lord had a reason for the navigation in a certain direction that you disagree with. In other words, it doesn't matter what you personally believe. You ought to stick with the programme and allow the Church to go the direction it needs to go to navigate the ocean. You don't see the dangers that the prophets and seers and revelators see. If you did, you would go the same direction they go, according to the timing they choose to go in that direction. In other words, you ought to let the institution do what it has to do for its own sake regardless of what you personally believe, and you hadn't ought to find fault that the direction it had to go was based on a particular necessity that you don't fathom, maybe even only a temporary one, where maybe it will go back to something else later.
For you to stand your ground when the Church has gone another direction is exactly what happens when everyone thinks they know better than the brethren. That's what happened with every other restorationist schism in history. You've heard it all before. Why should I say it again?

So, while the definition of apostate is subjective, there is only one definition of apostate that is the official one. that's the only one that matters, both for personal salvation, as well as having good standing with established authority.

Please take a moment and read the highlighted words. Then decide if you are following the Brethren or Christ.

Ok. You have already decided that following the Brethren is not following Christ.
Pres RMN consistently says that the brethren point the way to Christ. You follow the brethren, and you follow Christ at the same time. You Don't follow the brethren, you are not following Christ. That's the TBM position. It's not yours. You have decided that following the Brethren and following Christ are two separate things. You are a binary thinker, and you set up false dichotomies. Therefore, you are not a profound thinker in the sense that you have set up that false dichotomy, a logical fallacy, mind you, and you have made it your mantra for your belief system, which certainly is not the TBM belief system.

Well, what do you do when the scriptures are different than the Brethren teachings? You must choose one or the other. I have a feeling that the scriptures are a safer bet.

Wow, PR has some baffling rationale going on.

Fred wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 2:04 pm Well, what do you do when the scriptures are different than the Brethren teachings? You must choose one or the other. I have a feeling that the scriptures are a safer bet.

I told you that I'm an LDSFF veteran, and have been for many years, not withstanding this is a new account.
How many times in those many years of being on here have Snufferites, and others of the same mindset referred me to the scriptures every time and they say, well the Brethren don't teach according to the scriptures.

Why don't you give it a whirl and take a stab at predicting what my response might be to this? Do you really think I have not seen this argumentation 1000 times on the many many zombie threads that pop up on LDSFF from as far back as a decade ago? Why don't you just make a prediction?

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 2:09 pm Wow, PR has some baffling rationale going on.

Yes, I can see why false dichotomies are attractive to individuals that don't take much time to study up on logical fallacies and other reasoning errors, who don't take time to think through what they are actually saying, but who follow a certain crowd which has established a certain groupthink, and has its own lemming-esque following.

PaulRevereLDS wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 2:11 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑April 7th, 2022, 2:09 pm Wow, PR has some baffling rationale going on.

Yes, I can see why false dichotomies are attractive to individuals that don't take much time to study up on logical fallacies and other reasoning errors, who don't take time to think through what they are actually saying, but who follow a certain crowd which has established a certain groupthink, and has its own lemming-esque following.

Don't worry, the prophet won't lead you astray.

Paul, if this is old turf for you, may I suggest the “Foe” button? I use it occasionally myself, and find it great for focusing my attention where it needs to be. Petty distractions and arguments are probably not what you’re looking for, but neither is a gated garden. You can find wholesome conversation that uplifts if you find your own way to nourish it.

Otherwise, mute the noise. Bless, forgive, and move on.