LDS Freedom Forum

It was a fine talk. But his opening story caught me by surprise.

He said: "Economic cycles are unpredictable... " That's a quote I wrote down.

He talked about a sun-dial, and how we can really only know the present hour - not the future. And this from a PROPHET!

I think economic cycles are definitely predictable - and that we are headed for a downturn probably this year. Not a surprise, is that? given the Bidinflation and the shortages. And the threats on the Petrodollar. And the need to repent ... Ether 2, Helaman 13... Etc.

Perhaps he was saying " I could say some things about the future, but I'm constrained... so let's leave it at "unpredictable."

Basically saying what he would NOT talk about (certain future things).

PS - I'm packing to travel tomorrow, so not much time right now. Would appreciate if someone would get this paragraph from RMN's final talk at the conference so we can discuss, in context.
Trying to understand,, not meaning to be critical.

The video is now available: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bro ... mode=watch

Beginning at the 1h43m mark.
Hopefully the text will soon be available... I look forward to a discussion of this, if anyone is interested.

I transcribed it:

This conference has been historic in many ways. We have been blessed by the prayers, messages and music. We have been inspired by servants of the Lord. We have received important direction for the future. My prayer is that the Spirit has spoken to you directly about the things the Lord would have you do. The future is always uncertain. Weather changes. Economic cycles are unpredictable. Disasters, wars and accidents, illness can change life quickly. These actions are largely beyond our control but there are some things we can control, including how we spend our time each day. I like this poem by Henry Van Dyke posted on a sundial at Wells College in NY. It reads:

The shadow by my finger cast divides the future from the past:
Before it sleeps the unborn hour in darkness, and beyond thy power.
Behind its unreturning line, the vanished hour, no longer thine:
One hour alone is in thy hands,
The now on which the shadow stands.

Yes, we should learn from the past, and yes, we should learn from the future. But only now can we do. Now is the time we can learn. Now is the time we can repent. Now is the time we can bless others and life up the hands that hang down...

Probably one of the most anti-prophetic things I’ve ever heard, actually.

I question the notion that he is "constrained," from revealing some sort of revelation to the members of the church. What's the point of even having a prophet then if he can't say anything. It's not like he (or any recent prophet) has given any real guidance that has been disregarded by the membership. The vast majority of members live and die on every little word that spews from Rusty's mouth. He says jump, they jump. They aren't disregarding the voice of a claimed prophet. They may me disregarding the voice of the Lord...but not the "prophet."

It's a nice poem, in its own right.

There's sort of two main groups on this board. Book of Mormon believers who believe the leadership claims of the LDS church and Book of Mormon believers who do not believe in the leadership claims of the LDS church. I think the first group feels unheard and unwelcome. In the spirit of being cordial I'm trying to not contend at every opportunity presented and I'm trying to notice when efforts are being made for that first group to have faithful discussion and to not stifle it. I want the truth. I don't want to fight or make fun of someones' beliefs. With that said, there are times when discussion of a combative nature is appropriate, but not all threads call for it (IMO).

I'm curious to see peoples' responses to this thread and I'll probably just sort of keep my views to myself while seeing what people think

BroJones wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 7:41 pm It was a fine talk. But his opening story caught me by surprise.

He said: "Economic cycles are unpredictable... " That's a quote I wrote down.

He talked about a sun-dial, and how we can really only know the present hour - not the future. And this from a PROPHET!

I think economic cycles are definitely predictable - and that we are headed for a downturn probably this year. Not a surprise, is that? given the Bidinflation and the shortages. And the threats on the Petrodollar. And the need to repent ... Ether 2, Helaman 13... Etc.

Perhaps he was saying " I could say some things about the future, but I'm constrained... so let's leave it at "unpredictable."

Basically saying what he would NOT talk about (certain future things).

PS - I'm packing to travel tomorrow, so not much time right now. Would appreciate if someone would get this paragraph from RMN's final talk at the conference so we can discuss, in context.

The exact same quote stood out to me and I thought the same thin: "Of course economic cycles can be predicted. That is child's play."

I am trying really hard to give the leadership the benefit of the doubt, but the Lord has definitely told me about the future. And then after, He led me to find sources that confirmed what I had never considered. First, He showed me in the scriptures, then in mortal sources like news articles and websites.

I don't know nearly everything about the future, but I sure know what I need to for me and my family. Things that will play out on a larger scale than just my family or community, but globally. I also have a pretty good idea about what God wants me to do with the knowledge, and I am.

I know the Lord wants me to stay in the church. The wolves are trying to drive out the sheep so they are easier to pick off when separated and alone. But I am also confused by so much of what the church is doing. Why are they not warning of things that are not just speculation, but now beginning to be revealed as truth that God told me years ago? I even see other disciples of Christ, not of the LDS faith, who have been warned of the same things and are preparing in the same ways.

762X545 wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 9:14 pm I question the notion that he is "constrained," from revealing some sort of revelation to the members of the church. What's the point of even having a prophet then if he can't say anything. It's not like he (or any recent prophet) has given any real guidance that has been disregarded by the membership. The vast majority of members live and die on every little word that spews from Rusty's mouth. He says jump, they jump. They aren't disregarding the voice of a claimed prophet. They may me disregarding the voice of the Lord...but not the "prophet."

The half hour of silence began when the seventh seal opened and will continue until at least 2025. it is folly to expect anything beyond corporate governance from the currently constituted fab 15.

Rasband: “When Nelson speaks, he speaks for the Lord.”

Nelson: “eh we can’t know what’s gonna happen.”

I didn't interpret his words to mean that HE couldn't predict the future. Rather, I understood his point as being that WE (as individuals) can't control the past or the future of this world, but we CAN control our own present actions. FWIW.

J2 wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 11:06 pm I didn't interpret his words to mean that HE couldn't predict the future. Rather, I understood his point as being that WE (as individuals) can't control the past or the future of this world, but we CAN control our own present actions. FWIW.

The only reason I disagree is because he uses specific words like “unpredictable” and “always uncertain”…

Is it though? Do we not have prophecy of the last days? The economic bit is a joke considering it’s all meticulously controlled.

Taking control over our current actions is sound though, I just don’t like the rest of it. Dog turds in the brownie.

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 9:53 pm

BroJones wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 7:41 pm It was a fine talk. But his opening story caught me by surprise.

He said: "Economic cycles are unpredictable... " That's a quote I wrote down.

He talked about a sun-dial, and how we can really only know the present hour - not the future. And this from a PROPHET!

I think economic cycles are definitely predictable - and that we are headed for a downturn probably this year. Not a surprise, is that? given the Bidinflation and the shortages. And the threats on the Petrodollar. And the need to repent ... Ether 2, Helaman 13... Etc.

Perhaps he was saying " I could say some things about the future, but I'm constrained... so let's leave it at "unpredictable."

Basically saying what he would NOT talk about (certain future things).

PS - I'm packing to travel tomorrow, so not much time right now. Would appreciate if someone would get this paragraph from RMN's final talk at the conference so we can discuss, in context.

The exact same quote stood out to me and I thought the same thin: "Of course economic cycles can be predicted. That is child's play."

I am trying really hard to give the leadership the benefit of the doubt, but the Lord has definitely told me about the future.

What has the Lord told you about the future? What are you preparing for?

I am pretty prepared temporally, but I am weak spiritually. Come follow me lessons have been a huge blessing in my life to better prepare me to receive inspiration. I am still pretty weak and have a long way to go.

He looked like a tired, sold out, empty old man to me, reciting words put in his mouth by a team of script writers. As relevant and sincere as Biden.

They don't need to try because they know they have an army of broken-hearted true believers out there who will strive to see the meaning that just isn't there.

OK, thanks for the discussion.
Each of us has the right to revelation - for himself and (I believe) his/her family. These promptings are personal - but not secret.

My wife and I have discussed food storage - which Pres. Nelson also talked about and emphasized, approx 2 years ago. At least 3 months supply, more is better (see 3 Nephi 3-4, for example). Food prices are rising - scarcity is likely in the near future.

Also getting out of debt (which we have done) and getting (where possible) into metals and supplies.... getting money out of the banks. Having places of refuge to go to, which I believe RMN also encouraged - about 2 years ago.

Sunday afternoon session
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bro ... mode=watch

11m40s. Elder Oaks' talk re: need for a marriage and Temple Sealing between a man and a woman, in order to achieve the highest degree in the Celestial Kingdom. Also - individual gender cannot be changed.

1h43m40s. President Nelson, "The future is always uncertain. Economic cycles are unpredictable..."

Public warnings from BlackRock President and others:

"The president of the world's largest asset management company just issued a stark warning to members of America's "entitled generation."

BlackRock co-founder and president Robert Kapito said Tuesday that the global supply chain and soaring inflation crises will soon have dramatic effects on the U.S. economy that will result in a noticeable scarcity of goods not experienced before by many younger Americans.

That scarcity, he said, will likely be a shock to the system for many who are accustomed to an abundant and comfortable lifestyle.

"For the first time, this generation is going to go into a store and not be able to get what they want," Kapito said, adding, "We have a very entitled generation that has never had to sacrifice."

"I would put on your seatbelts, because this is something that we haven’t seen," he asserted, in reference to what he called "scarcity inflation."

Kapito's remarks, first reported by Bloomberg News, were made at the Texas Independent Producers and Royalty Owners Association convention — an annual gathering of oil and gas industry leaders.

The warning comes just days after Bloomberg economists advised Americans to consider budgeting an extra $5,200 this year — or $433 monthly — to prepare for the effects of historically high inflation."

BroJones wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 7:41 pm He talked about a sun-dial, and how we can really only know the present hour - not the future. And this from a PROPHET!

I think economic cycles are definitely predictable - and that we are headed for a downturn probably this year. Not a surprise, is that? given the Bidinflation and the shortages. And the threats on the Petrodollar. And the need to repent ... Ether 2, Helaman 13... Etc.

Perhaps he was saying " I could say some things about the future, but I'm constrained... so let's leave it at "unpredictable."

Basically saying what he would NOT talk about (certain future things).

PS - I'm packing to travel tomorrow, so not much time right now. Would appreciate if someone would get this paragraph from RMN's final talk at the conference so we can discuss, in context.

True prophets are pretty darn clear when they voice a warning. Just read the Book of Mormon. And yes, prophets prophesy of future events, again read the Book of Mormon, every single "prophet" gave some warning of future events or called the people to repentance. Many were killed for doing so.

The American economy's been rocky since Enron. Some sources predicted a Global Depression in the 2020s, so it looks like it has been partly artificially stimulated and can be palmed off on Covid and anything else that comes along, not rampant corruption, a debt creation system and an unhealthy relationship between China and the Developed World.

Niemand wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 5:49 am The American economy's been rocky since Enron. Some sources predicted a Global Depression in the 2020s, so it looks like it has been partly artificially stimulated and can be palmed off on Covid and anything else that comes along, not rampant corruption, a debt creation system and an unhealthy relationship between China and the Developed World.

From Financial Guru Doug Casey

Right now, the Fed has an urgent and fateful decision to make.

1) keep printing trillions and let inflation skyrocket or

2) tighten monetary policy and watch the market crash.

In other words, it can sacrifice the stock market or the dollar.

What happens next will have direct implications for the markets, your life savings, 401(k)s, IRAs, pensions, and Social Security.

Every financial adviser that I follow can see the writing on the wall.

Yet, President Nelson claims that it is unpredictable. Follow the promptings of the HG. We can only serve the Lord if we have filled our lamps. Strengthen your faith in the Lord. Prepare your gardens. Fill your stores.

We have become a fat lazy society, reliant on others for our basic needs.... My faith is being tested daily. I feel the weight of my wavering until I drop to my knees. Our only chance of redemption is thru our Savior.

I am baffled by the lack of spiritual leadership. I fasted before GC so that I would be guided by the words that were spoken. I feel at peace, yet felt no promptings from our leaders. I fear it is my own weaknesses that have shut me off from their guidance. ... Or are they not speaking with the spirit?

Momma J wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 6:55 am

Niemand wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 5:49 am The American economy's been rocky since Enron. Some sources predicted a Global Depression in the 2020s, so it looks like it has been partly artificially stimulated and can be palmed off on Covid and anything else that comes along, not rampant corruption, a debt creation system and an unhealthy relationship between China and the Developed World.

From Financial Guru Doug Casey

Right now, the Fed has an urgent and fateful decision to make.

1) keep printing trillions and let inflation skyrocket or

2) tighten monetary policy and watch the market crash.

In other words, it can sacrifice the stock market or the dollar.

What happens next will have direct implications for the markets, your life savings, 401(k)s, IRAs, pensions, and Social Security.

Every financial adviser that I follow can see the writing on the wall.

Yet, President Nelson claims that it is unpredictable. Follow the promptings of the HG. We can only serve the Lord if we have filled our lamps. Strengthen your faith in the Lord. Prepare your gardens. Fill your stores.

We have become a fat lazy society, reliant on others for our basic needs.... My faith is being tested daily. I feel the weight of my wavering until I drop to my knees. Our only chance of redemption is thru our Savior.

I am baffled by the lack of spiritual leadership. I fasted before GC so that I would be guided by the words that were spoken. I feel at peace, yet felt no promptings from our leaders. I fear it is my own weaknesses that have shut me off from their guidance. ... Or are they not speaking with the spirit?

Momma J, the power is in you. They aren’t warning the fold. But God is warning us in abundance.
We know what’s coming without being told by our leaders because God’s great love for us.

I randomly turned to this scripture yesterday:
“What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.“
Romans 11:7-8

“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.”
11:25-27

Mamabear wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 7:15 am

Momma J wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 6:55 am

Niemand wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 5:49 am The American economy's been rocky since Enron. Some sources predicted a Global Depression in the 2020s, so it looks like it has been partly artificially stimulated and can be palmed off on Covid and anything else that comes along, not rampant corruption, a debt creation system and an unhealthy relationship between China and the Developed World.

From Financial Guru Doug Casey

Right now, the Fed has an urgent and fateful decision to make.

1) keep printing trillions and let inflation skyrocket or

2) tighten monetary policy and watch the market crash.

In other words, it can sacrifice the stock market or the dollar.

What happens next will have direct implications for the markets, your life savings, 401(k)s, IRAs, pensions, and Social Security.

Every financial adviser that I follow can see the writing on the wall.

Yet, President Nelson claims that it is unpredictable. Follow the promptings of the HG. We can only serve the Lord if we have filled our lamps. Strengthen your faith in the Lord. Prepare your gardens. Fill your stores.

We have become a fat lazy society, reliant on others for our basic needs.... My faith is being tested daily. I feel the weight of my wavering until I drop to my knees. Our only chance of redemption is thru our Savior.

I am baffled by the lack of spiritual leadership. I fasted before GC so that I would be guided by the words that were spoken. I feel at peace, yet felt no promptings from our leaders. I fear it is my own weaknesses that have shut me off from their guidance. ... Or are they not speaking with the spirit?

Momma J, the power is in you. They aren’t warning the fold. But God is warning us in abundance.
We know what’s coming without being told by our leaders because God’s great love for us.

I randomly turned to this scripture yesterday:
“What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.“
Romans 11:7-8

“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.”
11:25-27

This is a beautiful reminder. Thank you!

Translation:

"Who knows? Not me! Till next time! Gimme your money! Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee."

NeveR wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 12:49 am He looked like a tired, sold out, empty old man to me, reciting words put in his mouth by a team of script writers. As relevant and sincere as Biden.

They don't need to try because they know they have an army of broken-hearted true believers out there who will strive to see the meaning that just isn't there.

I noticed how old and tired he looked as well. It took me by surprise.

Take control of your own finances and take investment money out of stocks and put it elsewhere. Watch for the correction which is coming soon. The market has been artificially pumped since forever.

35 years ago I had a professor by the name of Myron Scholes. Yes, of the Black-Scholes options pricing model. He's in his 80s now. I remember how in October 1987 he came into class shaken, from the crazy selloff that had happened the day before in the US markets.

We're way beyond that now. When the hard wave 3 selling comes, it will seem relentless and dip buyers will get crushed. They'll get crushed because since mid 2002 dip buying has been rewarded and we're now conditioned to buy the dips. But a strong impulsive wave down and cold, brutal mkt psychology will rule the day and crush unwary dip buyers.

The last time he made a prediction it didn't exactly go so well. If I recall he said something along the lines of "this pandemic will not last long." That one really came back to bite them. Even after he admonished members and non-members alike to participate in not one, but two worldwide fasts to "stop the spread" or whatever it was, the supposed pandemic is not even completely resolved still according to the "experts." This is why they usually refrain from making prognostications.