LDS Freedom Forum

Momma J wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 6:55 am

Niemand wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 5:49 am The American economy's been rocky since Enron. Some sources predicted a Global Depression in the 2020s, so it looks like it has been partly artificially stimulated and can be palmed off on Covid and anything else that comes along, not rampant corruption, a debt creation system and an unhealthy relationship between China and the Developed World.

From Financial Guru Doug Casey



Yet, I felt the goodness of the prophet. He gave me reason to find peace in living the gospel in a decaying world.

Right now, the Fed has an urgent and fateful decision to make.

1) keep printing trillions and let inflation skyrocket or

2) tighten monetary policy and watch the market crash.

In other words, it can sacrifice the stock market or the dollar.

What happens next will have direct implications for the markets, your life savings, 401(k)s, IRAs, pensions, and Social Security.

Every financial adviser that I follow can see the writing on the wall.

Yet, President Nelson claims that it is unpredictable. Follow the promptings of the HG. We can only serve the Lord if we have filled our lamps. Strengthen your faith in the Lord. Prepare your gardens. Fill your stores.

We have become a fat lazy society, reliant on others for our basic needs.... My faith is being tested daily. I feel the weight of my wavering until I drop to my knees. Our only chance of redemption is thru our Savior.

I am baffled by the lack of spiritual leadership. I fasted before GC so that I would be guided by the words that were spoken. I feel at peace, yet felt no promptings from our leaders. I fear it is my own weaknesses that have shut me off from their guidance. ... Or are they not speaking with the spirit?

762X545 wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 9:41 pm I noticed that RMN shook everyone's hand except Uchtdorfs. He barely even acknowledged that he existed. Bad blood?

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 9:48 pm

762X545 wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 9:41 pm I noticed that RMN shook everyone's hand except Uchtdorfs. He barely even acknowledged that he existed. Bad blood?

snubb'd

Get the video clip of that.

762X545 wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 9:41 pm I noticed that RMN shook everyone's hand except Uchtdorfs. He barely even acknowledged that he existed. Bad blood?

Niemand wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 3:27 am
Uchtdorf has some popularity with some sections of the membership, and IMO is usually one of the better speakers at conference. His demotion was unexpected and I believe to cut him down to size. (Yes, I know about the political donation business and don't think that's the reason.)

I can't help thinking some kind of envy is involved. Nelson's fault is that he seems to take certain things personally, and wants to stamp his mark on the organisation. It's very much "my way or the highway" with him. Uchtdorf is associated with the previous regime, and has probably said things that Nelson didn't agree with.

briznian wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 5:11 am

762X545 wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 9:41 pm I noticed that RMN shook everyone's hand except Uchtdorfs. He barely even acknowledged that he existed. Bad blood?

Niemand wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 3:27 am
Uchtdorf has some popularity with some sections of the membership, and IMO is usually one of the better speakers at conference. His demotion was unexpected and I believe to cut him down to size. (Yes, I know about the political donation business and don't think that's the reason.)

I can't help thinking some kind of envy is involved. Nelson's fault is that he seems to take certain things personally, and wants to stamp his mark on the organisation. It's very much "my way or the highway" with him. Uchtdorf is associated with the previous regime, and has probably said things that Nelson didn't agree with.

I noticed that he referred to Uchtdorf as “President”. It could have been a mistake. It could have been out of respect kind of like how we refer former bishops by that title. My experience is that RMN is very precise in his language. I think it was a bit of a flex — to remind Uchtdorf of his former position and who is in charge now.

A Key to Mysteries
I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives. The principle is as correct as the one that Jesus put forth in saying that he who seeketh a sign is an adulterous person; and that principle is eternal, undeviating, and firm as the pillars of heaven; for whenever you see a man seeking after a sign, you may set it down that he is an adulterous man.

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 9:48 pm

762X545 wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 9:41 pm I noticed that RMN shook everyone's hand except Uchtdorfs. He barely even acknowledged that he existed. Bad blood?

snubb'd

Moroni104 wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 11:24 pm I listened to conference via headphones while I did manual labor around my house so I didn't see anyone's expressions. I didn't notice tiredness or anything like that. But he is 97. How much longer can he go? I keep expecting to hear that he has passed away.

This quote exactly sums up how I viewed this part of R. Nelson's speech:

I didn't interpret his words to mean that HE couldn't predict the future. Rather, I understood his point as being that WE (as individuals) can't control the past or the future of this world, but we CAN control our own present actions

This part of R Nelson's speech just seemed like something Thomas Monson would say. It is a reflective poem designed to tell you that you cannot predict your own future but can control your own presence.

I have lived through the cold war, where everything seemed like it was about to end; 9-11, where it also seemed like things were going to end, the financial problems of 2008; and the terrible governance of Barrack Obama.

Now we are living through what appears to be: 1) a stolen election, 2) a pandemic that came from a laboratory for which the response was highly controlled by people who do not appear to have our best interests, 3) the rise of censorship--pushed by those in the Democratic party and ruthlessly enforced by big tech and an army of leftist individuals, 4) the possibility of war with Russia, 5) the possibility of severe problems with our currency and/or our stock market. It very much appears that there is some sort of secret combination trying to rule the earth.

It seems like things are going to get really bad, but it seemed like that after 9-11 and it seemed like that during the cold war.

During the cold war, 9-11, 2008 crisis, etc., many bad things HAVE happened in my personal life, such as life altering diseases, accidents, aging, and health issues. These events have had a much greater impact on my life than anything going on in the news.

I think the point is that you (an individual listening to the speech) cannot predict your future.

All we can do is control the present and plan for the future.

I have been an enthusiastic "prepper" for a long time, and have supplies and plans if the world collapses. So, my anxiety is under control even though there are terrible things going on. And, I have to say,.... it is very possible, if not likely, that everything in the world just keeps on going, and that this is NOT the final winding up scene; it is just the current events, just like 9-11 was an event, the cold war was an event, etc. It is very possible, if not likely, that five years from now, I'm still doing my day job, the stock market still exists, I still own my home, etc.

I believe this is true: “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” Matt 24:36.

I do not believe that President Nelson knew about covid-19.

But, I also don't believe Brigham Young understood how the civil war would end. I think he actually misunderstood how it would end.

I think Joseph Smith had no idea when and how the world would end.

The Church has given me a lot of great principles to build my life to handle possible contingencies.

Yes, the Church leadership has been disappointing over the last few years, but these few paragraphs in President Nelson's talk did not strike me as anything disappointing or weird.

In general, I thought this was the best conference of the last five years because of its two references to the Proclamation on the Family.

Mindfields wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 7:39 am

A Key to Mysteries
I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives. The principle is as correct as the one that Jesus put forth in saying that he who seeketh a sign is an adulterous person; and that principle is eternal, undeviating, and firm as the pillars of heaven; for whenever you see a man seeking after a sign, you may set it down that he is an adulterous man.

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith

And very likely never actually said by Joseph Smith.

Maybe Lost Boys the 80's movie put it best. With a little revision from me. "One thing about Mormonism I never could stomach, all the damn hearsay.

Moroni104 wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 11:24 pm I listened to conference via headphones while I did manual labor around my house so I didn't see anyone's expressions. I didn't notice tiredness or anything like that. But he is 97. How much longer can he go? I keep expecting to hear that he has passed away.

This quote exactly sums up how I viewed this part of R. Nelson's speech:

I didn't interpret his words to mean that HE couldn't predict the future. Rather, I understood his point as being that WE (as individuals) can't control the past or the future of this world, but we CAN control our own present actions

This part of R Nelson's speech just seemed like something Thomas Monson would say. It is a reflective poem designed to tell you that you cannot predict your own future but can control your own presence.

I have lived through the cold war, where everything seemed like it was about to end; 9-11, where it also seemed like things were going to end, the financial problems of 2008; and the terrible governance of Barrack Obama.

Now we are living through what appears to be: 1) a stolen election, 2) a pandemic that came from a laboratory for which the response was highly controlled by people who do not appear to have our best interests, 3) the rise of censorship--pushed by those in the Democratic party and ruthlessly enforced by big tech and an army of leftist individuals, 4) the possibility of war with Russia, 5) the possibility of severe problems with our currency and/or our stock market. It very much appears that there is some sort of secret combination trying to rule the earth.

It seems like things are going to get really bad, but it seemed like that after 9-11 and it seemed like that during the cold war.

During the cold war, 9-11, 2008 crisis, etc., many bad things HAVE happened in my personal life, such as life altering diseases, accidents, aging, and health issues. These events have had a much greater impact on my life than anything going on in the news.

I think the point is that you (an individual listening to the speech) cannot predict your future.

All we can do is control the present and plan for the future.

I have been an enthusiastic "prepper" for a long time, and have supplies and plans if the world collapses. So, my anxiety is under control even though there are terrible things going on. And, I have to say,.... it is very possible, if not likely, that everything in the world just keeps on going, and that this is NOT the final winding up scene; it is just the current events, just like 9-11 was an event, the cold war was an event, etc. It is very possible, if not likely, that five years from now, I'm still doing my day job, the stock market still exists, I still own my home, etc.

I believe this is true: “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” Matt 24:36.

I do not believe that President Nelson knew about covid-19.

But, I also don't believe Brigham Young understood how the civil war would end. I think he actually misunderstood how it would end.

I think Joseph Smith had no idea when and how the world would end.

The Church has given me a lot of great principles to build my life to handle possible contingencies.

Yes, the Church leadership has been disappointing over the last few years, but these few paragraphs in President Nelson's talk did not strike me as anything disappointing or weird.

In general, I thought this was the best conference of the last five years because of its two references to the Proclamation on the Family.

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 10:37 pm

tribrac wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 10:10 pm "Demographic Winter".... Produced by KBYU or BYUtv I think. It might be 10 years old now. It was ahead of its time. First time I watched it I had flashes of insights and connections.

If BYUtv could see it, so could government and industry leaders.

I was puzzled when it came out that there was not a renewed call in conference for larger families. Not a program to help men earn more so they could support a wife and kids. Instead the church has gone the other way...promoting and idealizing professional women and all the modern western ideals that result in lower birthrates, smaller families and a disappearing population..

Smart guy to know and remember that! It was the original Demographic Winter: The Decline of the Human Family (2008) that got me started in Demographics. BYU cleaned it up and then streamed it in two parts as "The New Economic Reality: Demographic Winter" It is not there anymore, but you can find on youtube, and amazon of all places, for free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8XQjfG2wYc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw3OQgFsHZI

The UN Population Prospectus from 2010 said the world would hit peak population and begin decline in 2050 with the low variant projections. People exceeded their expectations and had even fewer children. The globalists are under no illusion that depopulation is not only working, it is accelerated, and they are delighted no doubt.

When people say that COV felt rushed, they may be right. The globalists probably thought it would take longer to convince people to have less kids. Maybe they planned COV for 2024, but had to push it up.

Jashon wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 8:30 am Take control of your own finances and take investment money out of stocks and put it elsewhere. Watch for the correction which is coming soon. The market has been artificially pumped since forever.

35 years ago I had a professor by the name of Myron Scholes. Yes, of the Black-Scholes options pricing model. He's in his 80s now. I remember how in October 1987 he came into class shaken, from the crazy selloff that had happened the day before in the US markets.

We're way beyond that now. When the hard wave 3 selling comes, it will seem relentless and dip buyers will get crushed. They'll get crushed because since mid 2002 dip buying has been rewarded and we're now conditioned to buy the dips. But a strong impulsive wave down and cold, brutal mkt psychology will rule the day and crush unwary dip buyers.

BroJones wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 5:47 am Over all a very inspiring experience for me, great contributions and conference.
I particularly liked Elder Oaks talk.

I feel to prepare... a portent of stormy weather!

Say what? wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 12:03 am

Momma J wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 6:55 am

Niemand wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 5:49 am The American economy's been rocky since Enron. Some sources predicted a Global Depression in the 2020s, so it looks like it has been partly artificially stimulated and can be palmed off on Covid and anything else that comes along, not rampant corruption, a debt creation system and an unhealthy relationship between China and the Developed World.

From Financial Guru Doug Casey



Yet, I felt the goodness of the prophet. He gave me reason to find peace in living the gospel in a decaying world.

Right now, the Fed has an urgent and fateful decision to make.

1) keep printing trillions and let inflation skyrocket or

2) tighten monetary policy and watch the market crash.

In other words, it can sacrifice the stock market or the dollar.

What happens next will have direct implications for the markets, your life savings, 401(k)s, IRAs, pensions, and Social Security.

Every financial adviser that I follow can see the writing on the wall.

Yet, President Nelson claims that it is unpredictable. Follow the promptings of the HG. We can only serve the Lord if we have filled our lamps. Strengthen your faith in the Lord. Prepare your gardens. Fill your stores.

We have become a fat lazy society, reliant on others for our basic needs.... My faith is being tested daily. I feel the weight of my wavering until I drop to my knees. Our only chance of redemption is thru our Savior.

I am baffled by the lack of spiritual leadership. I fasted before GC so that I would be guided by the words that were spoken. I feel at peace, yet felt no promptings from our leaders. I fear it is my own weaknesses that have shut me off from their guidance. ... Or are they not speaking with the spirit?

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 1:22 pm
there is no economic solution to an economic problem caused by politics . . . this is really a political problem . ..

it was not caused because we have too much beef . . or too much water . .. or too many cars . .. or too much savings . . . of course the amount of debt can certainly be considered . . . but this economic problem was caused by our governments politics. . . . the solution would be way different than what even, our smartest economists are saying . . .

no economic solution known from the past will change an economic problem caused by politics . . . there is no safety here. . . everyone has to make their best guess regarding economic protection today . . . . then hang on

actually, and I have posted it and said it many times . . . . God is going to take everything . . . then, the government will tax your food storage as an asset

Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

Severed Lips wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 10:57 pm
A Key to Mysteries
I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives. The principle is as correct as the one that Jesus put forth in saying that he who seeketh a sign is an adulterous person; and that principle is eternal, undeviating, and firm as the pillars of heaven; for whenever you see a man seeking after a sign, you may set it down that he is an adulterous man.

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 1:04 pm Reading the title of this thread, can't help wondering if it was his final conference talk.

GeeR wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 2:13 pm

Severed Lips wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 10:57 pm
A Key to Mysteries
I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives. The principle is as correct as the one that Jesus put forth in saying that he who seeketh a sign is an adulterous person; and that principle is eternal, undeviating, and firm as the pillars of heaven; for whenever you see a man seeking after a sign, you may set it down that he is an adulterous man.

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith

Paul Toscano, who was one the September Six that was excommunicated from the church years back said this quote was used against him. He said he did some research on it and found it was taken out of context, said he:

"Joseph Smith did not say these words TO church members WHO WERE critical of the leaders. He said them to church leaders to apostles and seventies- who were critical of church members. He warned leaders of the church, not to put themselves above others, not to condemn others, not to find fault with the church, not to say that members are out of the way while leaders are righteous."
https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... 01_111.pdf

The quote, if taken at face value, presupposes that church authority can never be wrong and that nobody has the right or responsibility to challenge apostate leadership which is obviously not true.

One of the reasons the Lord gave the law of common consent is so that a person can challenge decisions of leadership.. Also, the reason there is a specific protocol given in scripture for holding a disciplinary council on the president of the church (D&C 107) is because it is a possibility that a leader can fall from their calling.

Another argument often used to promote the false teaching that nobody can challenge authority is a scripture in the D&C that warns those that say Joseph has sinned. However the caveat is that you should not say he has sinned if he has not sinned. But if he has sinned, it is the responsibility for a person to question authority.

Severed Lips wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 3:28 pm

GeeR wrote: ↑April 5th, 2022, 2:13 pm

Severed Lips wrote: ↑April 4th, 2022, 10:57 pm
A Key to Mysteries
I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives. The principle is as correct as the one that Jesus put forth in saying that he who seeketh a sign is an adulterous person; and that principle is eternal, undeviating, and firm as the pillars of heaven; for whenever you see a man seeking after a sign, you may set it down that he is an adulterous man.

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith

Paul Toscano, who was one the September Six that was excommunicated from the church years back said this quote was used against him. He said he did some research on it and found it was taken out of context, said he:

"Joseph Smith did not say these words TO church members WHO WERE critical of the leaders. He said them to church leaders to apostles and seventies- who were critical of church members. He warned leaders of the church, not to put themselves above others, not to condemn others, not to find fault with the church, not to say that members are out of the way while leaders are righteous."
https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... 01_111.pdf

The quote, if taken at face value, presupposes that church authority can never be wrong and that nobody has the right or responsibility to challenge apostate leadership which is obviously not true.

One of the reasons the Lord gave the law of common consent is so that a person can challenge decisions of leadership.. Also, the reason there is a specific protocol given in scripture for holding a disciplinary council on the president of the church (D&C 107) is because it is a possibility that a leader can fall from their calling.

Another argument often used to promote the false teaching that nobody can challenge authority is a scripture in the D&C that warns those that say Joseph has sinned. However the caveat is that you should not say he has sinned if he has not sinned. But if he has sinned, it is the responsibility for a person to question authority.

It’s still not out of context. It goes both ways. I agree, Church leaders can fall victim to this mentality but it doesn’t give members a free pass either. Using this quote against an apostate works beautifully, as does using it against an out of step Church leader. It’s a divine principle. The prophet is warning of spiritual danger. A danger that applies to all.

Who was Joseph Smith’s audience when he said this:

“ I charged the Saints not to follow the example of the adversary in accusing the brethren, and said “if you do not accuse each other God will not accuse you. If you have no accuser you will enter heaven; and if you will follow the Revelations and instructions which God gives you through me, I will take you into heaven as my back load. If you will not accuse me, I will not accuse you. If you will throw a cloak of charity over my sins, I will over yours— for charity covereth a multitude of sins.”

The spirit of this forum and especially threads like this do not jive with what the Prophet is teaching here.

But I agree with you it’s a two-way street. Spiritually it’s a lot safer to ask “is it I, Lord?” In fact, forget spiritual safety, if we’re after spiritual growth charity ought to be our goal. I just don’t see much charity thrown towards the brethren around these parts. I do see the exact opposite of that though. But go ahead and defend your accusations by stating a quote is out of context. It’s a principle of truth. It holds true for all regardless of his audience.

BroJones wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 7:41 pm It was a fine talk. But his opening story caught me by surprise.

He said: "Economic cycles are unpredictable... " That's a quote I wrote down.

He talked about a sun-dial, and how we can really only know the present hour - not the future. And this from a PROPHET!

I think economic cycles are definitely predictable - and that we are headed for a downturn probably this year. Not a surprise, is that? given the Bidinflation and the shortages. And the threats on the Petrodollar. And the need to repent ... Ether 2, Helaman 13... Etc.

Perhaps he was saying " I could say some things about the future, but I'm constrained... so let's leave it at "unpredictable."

Basically saying what he would NOT talk about (certain future things).

PS - I'm packing to travel tomorrow, so not much time right now. Would appreciate if someone would get this paragraph from RMN's final talk at the conference so we can discuss, in context.
Trying to understand,, not meaning to be critical.