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Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 8:46 am
by BroJones
Yea, heavy destruction awaiteth this people, and it surely cometh unto this people, and nothing can save this people save it be repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ, who surely shall come into the world, and shall suffer many things and shall be slain for his people.
...
But if ye will repent and return unto the Lord your God I will turn away mine anger, saith the Lord; yea, thus saith the Lord, blessed are they who will repent and turn unto me, but wo unto him that repenteth not.
...
Ye do not remember the Lord your God in the things with which he hath blessed you, but ye do always remember your riches, not to thank the Lord your God for them; yea, your hearts are not drawn out unto the Lord, but they do swell with great pride, unto boasting, and unto great swelling, envyings, strifes, malice, persecutions, and murders, and all manner of iniquities.
...
O ye wicked and ye perverse generation; ye hardened and ye stiffnecked people, how long will ye suppose that the Lord will suffer you? Yea, how long will ye suffer yourselves to be led by foolish and blind guides? Yea, how long will ye choose darkness rather than light?
...
[Y]e have sought for happiness in doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness which is in our great and Eternal Head.
O ye people of the land, that ye would hear my words! And I pray that the anger of the Lord be turned away from you, and that ye would repent and be saved.
- by Mormon, the prophet, Helaman 13

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 8:54 am
by pancake
This is good but I think if we don't properly understand the goal it doesn't quite get us there.
D&C 84:23
Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;

The goal is to seek the face of God. Offer the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit, continually seek His will, and continually follow His personal commandments for us. Faithfully following these personal commandments is how we become sanctified.

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 9:54 am
by NeveR
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 8:54 am This is good but I think if we don't properly understand the goal it doesn't quite get us there.
D&C 84:23
Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;

The goal is to seek the face of God. Offer the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit, continually seek His will, and continually follow His personal commandments for us. Faithfully following these personal commandments is how we become sanctified.
If all that is asked of us ultimately is unquestioning obedience then what's the point? What have we learned?

"Don't question, don't think, just obey"?

Isn't that everything that's currently wrong with the world? People abandoning their own conscience and just doing as they're told?

I don't think that's what God wants. I think that's what man-made churches want.

I think what God asks of us is perhaps the most difficult thing any human can do - follow their OWN conscience wherever it leads. Defy any man-made authority, even those claiming to speak for God, if it conflicts with your inner sense of rightness.

Just my opinion

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 10:08 am
by pancake
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 9:54 am
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 8:54 am This is good but I think if we don't properly understand the goal it doesn't quite get us there.
D&C 84:23
Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;

The goal is to seek the face of God. Offer the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit, continually seek His will, and continually follow His personal commandments for us. Faithfully following these personal commandments is how we become sanctified.
If all that is asked of us ultimately is unquestioning obedience then what's the point? What have we learned?

"Don't question, don't think, just obey"?

Isn't that everything that's currently wrong with the world? People abandoning their own conscience and just doing as they're told?

I don't think that's what God wants. I think that's what man-made churches want.

I think what God asks of us is perhaps the most difficult thing any human can do - follow their OWN conscience wherever it leads. Defy any man-made authority, even those claiming to speak for God, if it conflicts with your inner sense of rightness.

Just my opinion
Your opinion is entirely unscriptural. "If ye love me, keep my commandments." The only way to know these commandments is by seeking His will. You do not know Christ if all you are doing is following commandments given to you by men!

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 10:11 am
by BuriedTartaria
Thank you for sharing this! I love the Book of Mormon and I feel it may be more of a prophetic warning above anything else. Others may see its primary purpose to perhaps support claims of authority. Many would say its primary purpose is to testify of Christ (and I can't deny that, it certainly does that). But for me, I see it mostly as a prophetic warning that societies can drift into a point of no return and Christ will be obligated to sweep them away (to that I say "praise God", thank you for saving us from ourselves).

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 10:25 am
by NeveR
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:08 am Your opinion is entirely unscriptural. "If ye love me, keep my commandments." The only way to know these commandments is by seeking His will. You do not know Christ if all you are doing is following commandments given to you by men!
How did you miss the fact that this (highlighted in red) was my point? You said exactly what I said. Obeying other humans at sacrifice of your own sense of right and wrong is a SIN. Even if those humans claim to be speaking for God.

God's voice is in all of us and any instruction we are given that conflicts with our direct prompting should be ignored.

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 10:52 am
by pancake
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 9:54 am If all that is asked of us ultimately is unquestioning obedience then what's the point? What have we learned?
Do you think this obedience is easy? If it is, you aren't seeking the will of the Lord and receiving His personal commandments for you. There is a reason prophets offend people! God commands them to!
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 9:54 am "Don't question, don't think, just obey"?
If you think the process will be as easy as that you are fooling yourself. This path of seeking the Lord's will and faithfully following all of His commandments, while at the same time being subject to the temptations of the natural man is no cake walk!
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 9:54 am Isn't that everything that's currently wrong with the world? People abandoning their own conscience and just doing as they're told?
Your questions here seem to be some sort of misunderstanding you are having with what I have written. We are to offer the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit, continually seek His will, and follow His unique commandments for us personally. As we continually and faithfully follow this path, the Lord will gradually bless us with greater and greater gifts of the spirit until we are ready to see Him face to face in this life.
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 9:54 am I don't think that's what God wants. I think that's what man-made churches want.
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." We are to offer the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit, continually seek His will, and follow His unique commandments for us personally. As we continually and faithfully follow this path, the Lord will gradually bless us with greater and greater gifts of the spirit until we are ready to see Him face to face in this life. This is what it means to know and love Christ.
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 9:54 am I think what God asks of us is perhaps the most difficult thing any human can do - follow their OWN conscience wherever it leads. Defy any man-made authority, even those claiming to speak for God, if it conflicts with your inner sense of rightness.
"The natural man is an enemy to God and has been from the fall of Adam." We are to offer the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit, continually seek His will, and follow His unique commandments for us personally. As we continually and faithfully follow this path, the Lord will gradually bless us with greater and greater gifts of the spirit until we are ready to see Him face to face in this life.
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:25 am
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:08 am Your opinion is entirely unscriptural. "If ye love me, keep my commandments." The only way to know these commandments is by seeking His will. You do not know Christ if all you are doing is following commandments given to you by men!
How did you miss the fact that this (highlighted in red) was my point? You said exactly what I said. Obeying other humans at sacrifice of your own sense of right and wrong is a SIN. Even if those humans claim to be speaking for God.
"The natural man is an enemy to God and has been from the fall of Adam." We are to offer the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit, continually seek His will, and follow His unique commandments for us personally. As we continually and faithfully follow this path, the Lord will gradually bless us with greater and greater gifts of the spirit until we are ready to see Him face to face in this life.
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:25 am God's voice is in all of us and any instruction we are given that conflicts with our direct prompting should be ignored.
"The natural man is an enemy to God and has been from the fall of Adam." We are to offer the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit, continually seek His will, and follow His unique commandments for us personally. As we continually and faithfully follow this path, the Lord will gradually bless us with greater and greater gifts of the spirit until we are ready to see Him face to face in this life.

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 11:15 am
by NeveR
@pancake - you still agree with me. You just use different words to describe the same thing.

I say "you must follow your conscience". You say "you must follow the path of the Lord".

Those are both the same thing. The Lord speaks to us through our conscience and its promptings. If we ignore that and instead follow the commands of other men, whether they be church leaders or politicians or a boss at work, we are sinning.

We know in our hearts the right path. And when we see it clearly we have been shown the way. If we turn from it because of fear or desire to conform or desire to be approved of by authority, we are sinning.

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 11:39 am
by h_p
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:52 am Do you think this obedience is easy? If it is, you aren't seeking the will of the Lord and receiving His personal commandments for you. There is a reason prophets offend people! God commands them to!
Obedience is hard, but not nearly as hard as knowing what to be obedient to.

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 1:04 pm
by pancake
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:15 am @pancake - you still agree with me. You just use different words to describe the same thing.

I say "you must follow your conscience". You say "you must follow the path of the Lord".

Those are both the same thing. The Lord speaks to us through our conscience and its promptings. If we ignore that and instead follow the commands of other men, whether they be church leaders or politicians or a boss at work, we are sinning.

We know in our hearts the right path. And when we see it clearly we have been shown the way. If we turn from it because of fear or desire to conform or desire to be approved of by authority, we are sinning.
I have not agreed with the sentiment in any of the posts you have made, regardless as to your belief as to the meaning of my posts vs the meaning of your posts. Perhaps the below response to h_p will help you come to an understanding as to what I mean by offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit.
h_p wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:39 am
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:52 am Do you think this obedience is easy? If it is, you aren't seeking the will of the Lord and receiving His personal commandments for you. There is a reason prophets offend people! God commands them to!
Obedience is hard, but not nearly as hard as knowing what to be obedient to.
A willingness to be obedient is part of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit. We have to be willing to actually follow His commands before He gives them. The whole process of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit is going to be different for each of us. It is not easy. In many cases we are not ready or able to make the offering because of our misunderstandings. So we need to ask the Lord to give us the experiences we need in order to learn how to make the offering acceptable unto Him. This will require asking the Lord to help us identify and remove all of the idols in our life.

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 1:11 pm
by NeveR
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:04 pm
I have not agreed with the sentiment in any of the posts you have made, regardless as to your belief as to the meaning of my posts vs the meaning of your posts. Perhaps the below response to h_p will help you come to an understanding as to what I mean by offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit.
Well, no it doesn't, because you are being deliberately vague.

Simple question - if you DON'T think we should obey the Lord's promptings in our heart who or what DO you think we should obey?

Are you saying we should obey certain people in positions of authority even if our conscience tells us it is WRONG?

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 1:23 pm
by pancake
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:11 pm
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:04 pm I have not agreed with the sentiment in any of the posts you have made, regardless as to your belief as to the meaning of my posts vs the meaning of your posts. Perhaps the below response to h_p will help you come to an understanding as to what I mean by offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit.
Well, no it doesn't, because you are being deliberately vague.

Simple question - if you DON'T think we should obey the Lord's promptings in our heart who or what DO you think we should obey?

Are you saying we should obey certain people in positions of authority even if our conscience tells us it is WRONG?
I again do not agree with the sentiment in this post nor the assumptions your questions require one to make.

If you want me to give you the first step that I believe you personally should take it would be this:
1. Ask the Lord in sincere prayer to help you understand how you can make an offering of a broken heart and contrite spirit that will be acceptable unto Him.

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 1:44 pm
by Being There
I posted this before.

The Book of Mormon serves as a "type" for us Gentiles and what we can expect.

Helaman

CHAPTER 13

1 And now it came to pass in the eighty and sixth year, the Nephites did still remain in wickedness, yea, in great wickedness, while the Lamanites did observe strictly to keep the commandments of God, according to the law of Moses.
2 And it came to pass that in this year there was one Samuel, a Lamanite, came into the land of Zarahemla, and began to preach unto the people. And it came to pass that he did preach, many days, repentance unto the people, and they did cast him out, and he was about to return to his own land.
3 But behold, the voice of the Lord came unto him, that he should return again, and prophesy unto the people whatsoever things should come into his heart.
4 And it came to pass that they would not suffer that he should enter into the city; therefore he went and got upon the wall thereof, and stretched forth his hand and cried with a loud voice, and prophesied unto the people whatsoever things the Lord put into his heart.
5 And he said unto them: Behold, I, Samuel, a Lamanite, do speak the words of the Lord which he doth put into my heart; and behold he hath put it into my heart to say unto this people that the sword of justice hangeth over this people; and four hundred years pass not away save the sword of justice falleth upon this people.
6 Yea, heavy destruction awaiteth this people, and it surely cometh unto this people, and nothing can save this people save it be repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ, who surely shall come into the world, and shall suffer many things and shall be slain for his people.
7 And behold, an angel of the Lord hath declared it unto me, and he did bring glad tidings to my soul. And behold, I was sent unto you to declare it unto you also, that ye might have glad tidings; but behold ye would not receive me.
8 Therefore, thus saith the Lord: Because of the hardness of the hearts of the people of the Nephites, except they repent I will take away my word from them, and I will withdraw my Spirit from them, and I will suffer them no longer, and I will turn the hearts of their brethren against them.
9 And four hundred years shall not pass away before I will cause that they shall be smitten; yea, I will visit them with the sword and with famine and with pestilence.
10 Yea, I will visit them in my fierce anger, and there shall be those of the fourth generation who shall live, of your enemies, to behold your utter destruction; and this shall surely come except ye repent, saith the Lord; and those of the fourth generation shall visit your destruction.
11 But if ye will repent and return unto the Lord your God I will turn away mine anger, saith the Lord; yea, thus saith the Lord, blessed are they who will repent and turn unto me, but wo unto him that repenteth not.
12 Yea, wo unto this great city of Zarahemla; for behold, it is because of those who are righteous that it is saved; yea, wo unto this great city, for I perceive, saith the Lord, that there are many, yea, even the more part of this great city, that will harden their hearts against me, saith the Lord.
13 But blessed are they who will repent, for them will I spare. But behold, if it were not for the righteous who are in this great city, behold, I would cause that fire should come down out of heaven and destroy it.
14 But behold, it is for the righteous’ sake that it is spared. But behold, the time cometh, saith the Lord, that when ye shall cast out the righteous from among you, then shall ye be ripe for destruction; yea, wo be unto this great city, because of the wickedness and abominations which are in her.
15 Yea, and wo be unto the city of Gideon, for the wickedness and abominations which are in her.
16 Yea, and wo be unto all the cities which are in the land round about, which are possessed by the Nephites, because of the wickedness and abominations which are in them.
17 And behold, a curse shall come upon the land, saith the Lord of Hosts, because of the people’s sake who are upon the land, yea, because of their wickedness and their abominations.
18 And it shall come to pass, saith the Lord of Hosts, yea, our great and true God, that whoso shall hide up treasures in the earth shall find them again no more, because of the great curse of the land, save he be a righteous man and shall hide it up unto the Lord.
19 For I will, saith the Lord, that they shall hide up their treasures unto me; and cursed be they who hide not up their treasures unto me; for none hideth up their treasures unto me save it be the righteous; and he that hideth not up his treasures unto me, cursed is he, and also the treasure, and none shall redeem it because of the curse of the land.
20 And the day shall come that they shall hide up their treasures, because they have set their hearts upon riches; and because they have set their hearts upon their riches, and will hide up their treasures when they shall flee before their enemies; because they will not hide them up unto me, cursed be they and also their treasures; and in that day shall they be smitten, saith the Lord.
21 Behold ye, the people of this great city, and hearken unto my words; yea, hearken unto the words which the Lord saith; for behold, he saith that ye are cursed because of your riches, and also are your riches cursed because ye have set your hearts upon them, and have not hearkened unto the words of him who gave them unto you.
22 Ye do not remember the Lord your God in the things with which he hath blessed you, but ye do always remember your riches, not to thank the Lord your God for them; yea, your hearts are not drawn out unto the Lord, but they do swell with great pride, unto boasting, and unto great swelling, envyings, strifes, malice, persecutions, and murders, and all manner of iniquities.
23 For this cause hath the Lord God caused that a curse should come upon the land, and also upon your riches, and this because of your iniquities.
24 Yea, wo unto this people, because of this time which has arrived, that ye do cast out the prophets, and do mock them, and cast stones at them, and do slay them, and do all manner of iniquity unto them, even as they did of old time.
25 And now when ye talk, ye say: If our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out.
26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.
27 But behold, if a man shall come among you and shall say: Do this, and there is no iniquity; do that and ye shall not suffer; yea, he will say: Walk after the pride of your own hearts; yea, walk after the pride of your eyes, and do whatsoever your heart desireth—and if a man shall come among you and say this, ye will receive him, and say that he is a prophet.
28 Yea, ye will lift him up, and ye will give unto him of your substance; ye will give unto him of your gold, and of your silver, and ye will clothe him with costly apparel; and because he speaketh flattering words unto you, and he saith that all is well, then ye will not find fault with him.
29 O ye wicked and ye perverse generation; ye hardened and ye stiffnecked people, how long will ye suppose that the Lord will suffer you? Yea, how long will ye suffer yourselves to be led by foolish and blind guides? Yea, how long will ye choose darkness rather than light?
30 Yea, behold, the anger of the Lord is already kindled against you; behold, he hath cursed the land because of your iniquity.
31 And behold, the time cometh that he curseth your riches, that they become slippery, that ye cannot hold them; and in the days of your poverty ye cannot retain them.
32 And in the days of your poverty ye shall cry unto the Lord; and in vain shall ye cry, for your desolation is already come upon you, and your destruction is made sure; and then shall ye weep and howl in that day, saith the Lord of Hosts. And then shall ye lament, and say:
33 O that I had repented, and had not killed the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out. Yea, in that day ye shall say: O that we had remembered the Lord our God in the day that he gave us our riches, and then they would not have become slippery that we should lose them; for behold, our riches are gone from us.
34 Behold, we lay a tool here and on the morrow it is gone; and behold, our swords are taken from us in the day we have sought them for battle.
35 Yea, we have hid up our treasures and they have slipped away from us, because of the curse of the land.
36 O that we had repented in the day that the word of the Lord came unto us; for behold the land is cursed, and all things are become slippery, and we cannot hold them.
37 Behold, we are surrounded by demons, yea, we are encircled about by the angels of him who hath sought to destroy our souls. Behold, our iniquities are great. O Lord, canst thou not turn away thine anger from us? And this shall be your language in those days.
38 But behold, your days of probation are past; ye have procrastinated the day of your salvation until it is everlastingly too late, and your destruction is made sure; yea, for ye have sought all the days of your lives for that which ye could not obtain; and ye have sought for happiness in doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness which is in our great and Eternal Head.
39 O ye people of the land, that ye would hear my words! And I pray that the anger of the Lord be turned away from you, and that ye would repent and be saved.

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 1:46 pm
by Being There
and this

Do the Mormon's even take The Book of Mormon seriously anymore ?

You wouldn't think so by what we can see.
The church seems to think that The Book of Mormon came to us so we can preach it to the World,
and because the gospel was restored to us - the Lord's end-time covenant people - *
that it applies to everyone but ourselves; those whom the book came to.
Seems kinda ridiculous to me.
* "Where much is given, much is required"
The Book of Mormon applies to us - (those that received the restored gospel) more than non-member Gentiles.

I thought we were supposed to “liken ALL scriptures "The Book of Mormon" unto ourselves".

23 And I did read many things unto them which were written in the books of Moses;
but that I might more fully persuade them to believe in the Lord their Redeemer
I did read unto them that which was written by the prophet Isaiah; for I did liken all scriptures unto us,
that it might be for our profit and learning.

24 Wherefore I spake unto them, saying: Hear ye the words of the prophet, ye who are a remnant of the house of Israel, a branch who have been broken off; hear ye the words of the prophet, which were written unto all the house of Israel, and liken them unto yourselves, that ye may have hope as well as your brethren from whom ye have been broken off; for after this manner has the prophet written.
1 Nephi 19

and as someone said -
"Mormons today dwindle in unbelief.
There is a pervasive belief among us that we are God's chosen people and therefore unavoidably in the right way.
So when we read the BOM giving desperate warnings about the churches in the last days,
we automatically assume those warnings apply to all churches but our own.
We tend to apply the most important lessons of the book to everyone else but ourselves.
Its a great example of standing on the rameumptom. Read Alma Chapter 31. Its a story of who?... That's right...
The Mormons.
You would think that it would be odd to the Mormons that so much effort was wasted
warning those who will never read the book."

and -
"If we are to accept the blessings pronounced to the “Gentiles” in the Book of Mormon, should we not
seriously consider the warnings to the “Gentiles” that are pronounced throughout the Book of Mormon?

The following is Jesus Christ speaking to the Latter-day Gentiles…
And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you:
At that day WHEN the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father,
I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
3 Nephi 16:10

Notice that the Lord says not IF but WHEN the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel.
Additionally, He says that He will bring the fullness of His gospel from among them.

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 2:19 pm
by Being There
Being There wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:44 pm I posted this before.

The Book of Mormon serves as a "type" for us Gentiles and what we can expect.

Helaman

CHAPTER 13

1 And now it came to pass in the eighty and sixth year, the Nephites did still remain in wickedness, yea, in great wickedness, while the Lamanites did observe strictly to keep the commandments of God, according to the law of Moses.
2 And it came to pass that in this year there was one Samuel, a Lamanite, came into the land of Zarahemla, and began to preach unto the people. And it came to pass that he did preach, many days, repentance unto the people, and they did cast him out, and he was about to return to his own land.
3 But behold, the voice of the Lord came unto him, that he should return again, and prophesy unto the people whatsoever things should come into his heart.
4 And it came to pass that they would not suffer that he should enter into the city; therefore he went and got upon the wall thereof, and stretched forth his hand and cried with a loud voice, and prophesied unto the people whatsoever things the Lord put into his heart.
5 And he said unto them: Behold, I, Samuel, a Lamanite, do speak the words of the Lord which he doth put into my heart; and behold he hath put it into my heart to say unto this people that the sword of justice hangeth over this people; and four hundred years pass not away save the sword of justice falleth upon this people.
6 Yea, heavy destruction awaiteth this people, and it surely cometh unto this people, and nothing can save this people save it be repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ, who surely shall come into the world, and shall suffer many things and shall be slain for his people.
7 And behold, an angel of the Lord hath declared it unto me, and he did bring glad tidings to my soul. And behold, I was sent unto you to declare it unto you also, that ye might have glad tidings; but behold ye would not receive me.
8 Therefore, thus saith the Lord: Because of the hardness of the hearts of the people of the Nephites, except they repent I will take away my word from them, and I will withdraw my Spirit from them, and I will suffer them no longer, and I will turn the hearts of their brethren against them.
9 And four hundred years shall not pass away before I will cause that they shall be smitten; yea, I will visit them with the sword and with famine and with pestilence.
10 Yea, I will visit them in my fierce anger, and there shall be those of the fourth generation who shall live, of your enemies, to behold your utter destruction; and this shall surely come except ye repent, saith the Lord; and those of the fourth generation shall visit your destruction.
11 But if ye will repent and return unto the Lord your God I will turn away mine anger, saith the Lord; yea, thus saith the Lord, blessed are they who will repent and turn unto me, but wo unto him that repenteth not.
12 Yea, wo unto this great city of Zarahemla; for behold, it is because of those who are righteous that it is saved; yea, wo unto this great city, for I perceive, saith the Lord, that there are many, yea, even the more part of this great city, that will harden their hearts against me, saith the Lord.
13 But blessed are they who will repent, for them will I spare. But behold, if it were not for the righteous who are in this great city, behold, I would cause that fire should come down out of heaven and destroy it.
14 But behold, it is for the righteous’ sake that it is spared. But behold, the time cometh, saith the Lord, that when ye shall cast out the righteous from among you, then shall ye be ripe for destruction; yea, wo be unto this great city, because of the wickedness and abominations which are in her.
15 Yea, and wo be unto the city of Gideon, for the wickedness and abominations which are in her.
16 Yea, and wo be unto all the cities which are in the land round about, which are possessed by the Nephites, because of the wickedness and abominations which are in them.
17 And behold, a curse shall come upon the land, saith the Lord of Hosts, because of the people’s sake who are upon the land, yea, because of their wickedness and their abominations.
18 And it shall come to pass, saith the Lord of Hosts, yea, our great and true God, that whoso shall hide up treasures in the earth shall find them again no more, because of the great curse of the land, save he be a righteous man and shall hide it up unto the Lord.
19 For I will, saith the Lord, that they shall hide up their treasures unto me; and cursed be they who hide not up their treasures unto me; for none hideth up their treasures unto me save it be the righteous; and he that hideth not up his treasures unto me, cursed is he, and also the treasure, and none shall redeem it because of the curse of the land.
20 And the day shall come that they shall hide up their treasures, because they have set their hearts upon riches; and because they have set their hearts upon their riches, and will hide up their treasures when they shall flee before their enemies; because they will not hide them up unto me, cursed be they and also their treasures; and in that day shall they be smitten, saith the Lord.
21 Behold ye, the people of this great city, and hearken unto my words; yea, hearken unto the words which the Lord saith; for behold, he saith that ye are cursed because of your riches, and also are your riches cursed because ye have set your hearts upon them, and have not hearkened unto the words of him who gave them unto you.
22 Ye do not remember the Lord your God in the things with which he hath blessed you, but ye do always remember your riches, not to thank the Lord your God for them; yea, your hearts are not drawn out unto the Lord, but they do swell with great pride, unto boasting, and unto great swelling, envyings, strifes, malice, persecutions, and murders, and all manner of iniquities.
23 For this cause hath the Lord God caused that a curse should come upon the land, and also upon your riches, and this because of your iniquities.
24 Yea, wo unto this people, because of this time which has arrived, that ye do cast out the prophets, and do mock them, and cast stones at them, and do slay them, and do all manner of iniquity unto them, even as they did of old time.
25 And now when ye talk, ye say: If our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets; we would not have stoned them, and cast them out.
26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.
27 But behold, if a man shall come among you and shall say: Do this, and there is no iniquity; do that and ye shall not suffer; yea, he will say: Walk after the pride of your own hearts; yea, walk after the pride of your eyes, and do whatsoever your heart desireth—and if a man shall come among you and say this, ye will receive him, and say that he is a prophet.
28 Yea, ye will lift him up, and ye will give unto him of your substance; ye will give unto him of your gold, and of your silver, and ye will clothe him with costly apparel; and because he speaketh flattering words unto you, and he saith that all is well, then ye will not find fault with him.
29 O ye wicked and ye perverse generation; ye hardened and ye stiffnecked people, how long will ye suppose that the Lord will suffer you? Yea, how long will ye suffer yourselves to be led by foolish and blind guides? Yea, how long will ye choose darkness rather than light?
30 Yea, behold, the anger of the Lord is already kindled against you; behold, he hath cursed the land because of your iniquity.
31 And behold, the time cometh that he curseth your riches, that they become slippery, that ye cannot hold them; and in the days of your poverty ye cannot retain them.
32 And in the days of your poverty ye shall cry unto the Lord; and in vain shall ye cry, for your desolation is already come upon you, and your destruction is made sure; and then shall ye weep and howl in that day, saith the Lord of Hosts. And then shall ye lament, and say:
33 O that I had repented, and had not killed the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out. Yea, in that day ye shall say: O that we had remembered the Lord our God in the day that he gave us our riches, and then they would not have become slippery that we should lose them; for behold, our riches are gone from us.
34 Behold, we lay a tool here and on the morrow it is gone; and behold, our swords are taken from us in the day we have sought them for battle.
35 Yea, we have hid up our treasures and they have slipped away from us, because of the curse of the land.
36 O that we had repented in the day that the word of the Lord came unto us; for behold the land is cursed, and all things are become slippery, and we cannot hold them.
37 Behold, we are surrounded by demons, yea, we are encircled about by the angels of him who hath sought to destroy our souls. Behold, our iniquities are great. O Lord, canst thou not turn away thine anger from us? And this shall be your language in those days.
38 But behold, your days of probation are past; ye have procrastinated the day of your salvation until it is everlastingly too late, and your destruction is made sure; yea, for ye have sought all the days of your lives for that which ye could not obtain; and ye have sought for happiness in doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness which is in our great and Eternal Head.
39 O ye people of the land, that ye would hear my words! And I pray that the anger of the Lord be turned away from you, and that ye would repent and be saved.
These verses especially describe our church and those that reject the real servants
of the Lord and His words, yet being led by these foolish and (blind guides - church leaders (verse 29)
- accept the words from their false prophet -
who assures them "all is well" (verse 28)
"and he saith that all is well, then ye will not find fault with him."


26 Behold ye are worse than they; for as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, ye are angry with him, and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him; yea, you will say that he is a false prophet, and that he is a sinner, and of the devil, because he testifieth that your deeds are evil.
27 But behold, if a man shall come among you and shall say: Do this, and there is no iniquity; do that and ye shall not suffer; yea, he will say: Walk after the pride of your own hearts; yea, walk after the pride of your eyes, and do whatsoever your heart desireth—and if a man shall come among you and say this, ye will receive him, and say that he is a prophet.

28 Yea, ye will lift him up, and ye will give unto him of your substance; ye will give unto him of your gold, and of your silver, and ye will clothe him with costly apparel; and because he speaketh flattering words unto you, and he saith that all is well, then ye will not find fault with him.
29 O ye wicked and ye perverse generation; ye hardened and ye stiffnecked people,
how long will ye suppose that the Lord will suffer you?
Yea, how long will ye suffer yourselves to be led by foolish and blind guides?
Yea, how long will ye choose darkness rather than light?

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 2:38 pm
by darknesstolight
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:04 pm
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:15 am @pancake - you still agree with me. You just use different words to describe the same thing.

I say "you must follow your conscience". You say "you must follow the path of the Lord".

Those are both the same thing. The Lord speaks to us through our conscience and its promptings. If we ignore that and instead follow the commands of other men, whether they be church leaders or politicians or a boss at work, we are sinning.

We know in our hearts the right path. And when we see it clearly we have been shown the way. If we turn from it because of fear or desire to conform or desire to be approved of by authority, we are sinning.
I have not agreed with the sentiment in any of the posts you have made, regardless as to your belief as to the meaning of my posts vs the meaning of your posts. Perhaps the below response to h_p will help you come to an understanding as to what I mean by offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit.
h_p wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:39 am
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:52 am Do you think this obedience is easy? If it is, you aren't seeking the will of the Lord and receiving His personal commandments for you. There is a reason prophets offend people! God commands them to!
Obedience is hard, but not nearly as hard as knowing what to be obedient to.
A willingness to be obedient is part of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit. We have to be willing to actually follow His commands before He gives them. The whole process of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit is going to be different for each of us. It is not easy. In many cases we are not ready or able to make the offering because of our misunderstandings. So we need to ask the Lord to give us the experiences we need in order to learn how to make the offering acceptable unto Him. This will require asking the Lord to help us identify and remove all of the idols in our life.
Pancake to me you are saying the same thing as NeveR. To me it seems like you can't see she is agreeing with you because she didn't describe it using the same words or symbols as you.

...

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 2:47 pm
by pancake
darknesstolight wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:38 pm
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:04 pm
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:15 am @pancake - you still agree with me. You just use different words to describe the same thing.

I say "you must follow your conscience". You say "you must follow the path of the Lord".

Those are both the same thing. The Lord speaks to us through our conscience and its promptings. If we ignore that and instead follow the commands of other men, whether they be church leaders or politicians or a boss at work, we are sinning.

We know in our hearts the right path. And when we see it clearly we have been shown the way. If we turn from it because of fear or desire to conform or desire to be approved of by authority, we are sinning.
I have not agreed with the sentiment in any of the posts you have made, regardless as to your belief as to the meaning of my posts vs the meaning of your posts. Perhaps the below response to h_p will help you come to an understanding as to what I mean by offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit.
h_p wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:39 am
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:52 am Do you think this obedience is easy? If it is, you aren't seeking the will of the Lord and receiving His personal commandments for you. There is a reason prophets offend people! God commands them to!
Obedience is hard, but not nearly as hard as knowing what to be obedient to.
A willingness to be obedient is part of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit. We have to be willing to actually follow His commands before He gives them. The whole process of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit is going to be different for each of us. It is not easy. In many cases we are not ready or able to make the offering because of our misunderstandings. So we need to ask the Lord to give us the experiences we need in order to learn how to make the offering acceptable unto Him. This will require asking the Lord to help us identify and remove all of the idols in our life.
Pancake to me you are saying the same thing as NeveR. To me it seems like you can't see she is agreeing with you because she didn't describe it using the same words or symbols as you.

...
NeveR wrote, "If all that is asked of us ultimately is unquestioning obedience then what's the point?"

This first question she makes should hopefully illustrate my point to you, darknesstolight. In all of her posts she makes a bunch of statements/questions with assumptions I don't agree with.

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 2:54 pm
by h_p
darknesstolight wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:38 pm Pancake to me you are saying the same thing as NeveR. To me it seems like you can't see she is agreeing with you because she didn't describe it using the same words or symbols as you.
For what it's worth, that's what I'm seeing, too. Even NeveR is saying they agree. :lol:

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 2:59 pm
by pancake
h_p wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:54 pm
darknesstolight wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:38 pm Pancake to me you are saying the same thing as NeveR. To me it seems like you can't see she is agreeing with you because she didn't describe it using the same words or symbols as you.
For what it's worth, that's what I'm seeing, too. Even NeveR is saying they agree. :lol:
In all of her posts she makes a bunch of statements/questions with assumptions I don't agree with.

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 3:51 pm
by darknesstolight
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:47 pm
darknesstolight wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:38 pm
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:04 pm
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:15 am @pancake - you still agree with me. You just use different words to describe the same thing.

I say "you must follow your conscience". You say "you must follow the path of the Lord".

Those are both the same thing. The Lord speaks to us through our conscience and its promptings. If we ignore that and instead follow the commands of other men, whether they be church leaders or politicians or a boss at work, we are sinning.

We know in our hearts the right path. And when we see it clearly we have been shown the way. If we turn from it because of fear or desire to conform or desire to be approved of by authority, we are sinning.
I have not agreed with the sentiment in any of the posts you have made, regardless as to your belief as to the meaning of my posts vs the meaning of your posts. Perhaps the below response to h_p will help you come to an understanding as to what I mean by offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit.
h_p wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:39 am
Obedience is hard, but not nearly as hard as knowing what to be obedient to.
A willingness to be obedient is part of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit. We have to be willing to actually follow His commands before He gives them. The whole process of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit is going to be different for each of us. It is not easy. In many cases we are not ready or able to make the offering because of our misunderstandings. So we need to ask the Lord to give us the experiences we need in order to learn how to make the offering acceptable unto Him. This will require asking the Lord to help us identify and remove all of the idols in our life.
Pancake to me you are saying the same thing as NeveR. To me it seems like you can't see she is agreeing with you because she didn't describe it using the same words or symbols as you.

...
NeveR wrote, "If all that is asked of us ultimately is unquestioning obedience then what's the point?"

This first question she makes should hopefully illustrate my point to you, darknesstolight. In all of her posts she makes a bunch of statements/questions with assumptions I don't agree with.
No it doesn't. She agrees with you. Instead of assuming I can see what you see why don't you explicitly explain the issue with that question? What assumptions do you think she is making that you don't agree with?

That question you quote has to be taken in context of her post. She is saying that blind obedience to another man is not what we should be doing. She is saying that you have to listen to your heart, your inner light, which is the Spirit, and follow your conscience as opposed to blindly following the conscience of another.

What am I missing? Be specific. Your post was sincerely and honestly not enough to illustrate your point.

...

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 3:54 pm
by EvanLM
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:25 am
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:08 am Your opinion is entirely unscriptural. "If ye love me, keep my commandments." The only way to know these commandments is by seeking His will. You do not know Christ if all you are doing is following commandments given to you by men!
How did you miss the fact that this (highlighted in red) was my point? You said exactly what I said. Obeying other humans at sacrifice of your own sense of right and wrong is a SIN. Even if those humans claim to be speaking for God.

God's voice is in all of us and any instruction we are given that conflicts with our direct prompting should be ignored.
that's exactly what the LGBTQ crowd says and the abortion crowd . . .do what YOU feel good about . . . they believe that God's voice IS in them . . .have you ever talked to any of them personally and just been open? . . they are truly waiting for the satanic change and for satan . . who really isn't a bad guy . . to take this world over and get rid of anyone that would follow Christ unquestionly . . . they talk just like you posted . . . maybe they are right

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 3:58 pm
by EvanLM
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:04 pm
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:15 am @pancake - you still agree with me. You just use different words to describe the same thing.

I say "you must follow your conscience". You say "you must follow the path of the Lord".

Those are both the same thing. The Lord speaks to us through our conscience and its promptings. If we ignore that and instead follow the commands of other men, whether they be church leaders or politicians or a boss at work, we are sinning.

We know in our hearts the right path. And when we see it clearly we have been shown the way. If we turn from it because of fear or desire to conform or desire to be approved of by authority, we are sinning.
I have not agreed with the sentiment in any of the posts you have made, regardless as to your belief as to the meaning of my posts vs the meaning of your posts. Perhaps the below response to h_p will help you come to an understanding as to what I mean by offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit.
h_p wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:39 am
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:52 am Do you think this obedience is easy? If it is, you aren't seeking the will of the Lord and receiving His personal commandments for you. There is a reason prophets offend people! God commands them to!
Obedience is hard, but not nearly as hard as knowing what to be obedient to.
A willingness to be obedient is part of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit. We have to be willing to actually follow His commands before He gives them. The whole process of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit is going to be different for each of us. It is not easy. In many cases we are not ready or able to make the offering because of our misunderstandings. So we need to ask the Lord to give us the experiences we need in order to learn how to make the offering acceptable unto Him. This will require asking the Lord to help us identify and remove all of the idols in our life.
the Lord, through the HG does NOT give us any personal "commandments until we have proved to him that we can live the commandments that he ahs already given . . through man . . .through prophets, if you will, . . . recorded in the scriptures and spoken today . . .

you're not gonna get those higher personal commandments until you prove you can live the ones Jesus has already asked you to live that came from another source . . him and his prophets of any age . . .not my opinion . . . dcotrine

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 4:00 pm
by EvanLM
darknesstolight wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:38 pm
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:04 pm
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:15 am @pancake - you still agree with me. You just use different words to describe the same thing.

I say "you must follow your conscience". You say "you must follow the path of the Lord".

Those are both the same thing. The Lord speaks to us through our conscience and its promptings. If we ignore that and instead follow the commands of other men, whether they be church leaders or politicians or a boss at work, we are sinning.

We know in our hearts the right path. And when we see it clearly we have been shown the way. If we turn from it because of fear or desire to conform or desire to be approved of by authority, we are sinning.
I have not agreed with the sentiment in any of the posts you have made, regardless as to your belief as to the meaning of my posts vs the meaning of your posts. Perhaps the below response to h_p will help you come to an understanding as to what I mean by offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit.
h_p wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:39 am
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:52 am Do you think this obedience is easy? If it is, you aren't seeking the will of the Lord and receiving His personal commandments for you. There is a reason prophets offend people! God commands them to!
Obedience is hard, but not nearly as hard as knowing what to be obedient to.
A willingness to be obedient is part of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit. We have to be willing to actually follow His commands before He gives them. The whole process of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit is going to be different for each of us. It is not easy. In many cases we are not ready or able to make the offering because of our misunderstandings. So we need to ask the Lord to give us the experiences we need in order to learn how to make the offering acceptable unto Him. This will require asking the Lord to help us identify and remove all of the idols in our life.
Pancake to me you are saying the same thing as NeveR. To me it seems like you can't see she is agreeing with you because she didn't describe it using the same words or symbols as you.

...
disagree. . . no she isn't . . .you just personally like her and support anything she says

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 4:00 pm
by pancake
darknesstolight wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 3:51 pm
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:47 pm
darknesstolight wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:38 pm
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:04 pm I have not agreed with the sentiment in any of the posts you have made, regardless as to your belief as to the meaning of my posts vs the meaning of your posts. Perhaps the below response to h_p will help you come to an understanding as to what I mean by offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit.

A willingness to be obedient is part of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit. We have to be willing to actually follow His commands before He gives them. The whole process of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit is going to be different for each of us. It is not easy. In many cases we are not ready or able to make the offering because of our misunderstandings. So we need to ask the Lord to give us the experiences we need in order to learn how to make the offering acceptable unto Him. This will require asking the Lord to help us identify and remove all of the idols in our life.
Pancake to me you are saying the same thing as NeveR. To me it seems like you can't see she is agreeing with you because she didn't describe it using the same words or symbols as you.
...
NeveR wrote, "If all that is asked of us ultimately is unquestioning obedience then what's the point?"

This first question she makes should hopefully illustrate my point to you, darknesstolight. In all of her posts she makes a bunch of statements/questions with assumptions I don't agree with.
No it doesn't. She agrees with you. Instead of assuming I can see what you see why don't you explicitly explain the issue with that question? What assumptions do you think she is making that you don't agree with?

That question you quote has to be taken in context of her post. She is saying that blind obedience to another man is not what we should be doing. She is saying that you have to listen to your heart, your inner light, which is the Spirit, and follow your conscience as opposed to blindly following the conscience of another.

What am I missing? Be specific. Your post was sincerely and honestly not enough to illustrate your point.

...
It makes the assumption that I believe my post can be described by as "all that is asked of us ultimately is unquestioning obedience" when it is in fact so much more. It is in no way a simple one-liner as she proposes. Prophets have described (what I consider only part of the process) as struggling mightily with the Lord. This is not something to be taken lightly.

And this is just her first question. All the other questions/statements are the same.

Re: Prophetic Warning and Call to Repentance: by Mormon

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 4:04 pm
by pancake
EvanLM wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 3:58 pm
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 1:04 pm
NeveR wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:15 am @pancake - you still agree with me. You just use different words to describe the same thing.

I say "you must follow your conscience". You say "you must follow the path of the Lord".

Those are both the same thing. The Lord speaks to us through our conscience and its promptings. If we ignore that and instead follow the commands of other men, whether they be church leaders or politicians or a boss at work, we are sinning.

We know in our hearts the right path. And when we see it clearly we have been shown the way. If we turn from it because of fear or desire to conform or desire to be approved of by authority, we are sinning.
I have not agreed with the sentiment in any of the posts you have made, regardless as to your belief as to the meaning of my posts vs the meaning of your posts. Perhaps the below response to h_p will help you come to an understanding as to what I mean by offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit.
h_p wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 11:39 am
pancake wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 10:52 am Do you think this obedience is easy? If it is, you aren't seeking the will of the Lord and receiving His personal commandments for you. There is a reason prophets offend people! God commands them to!
Obedience is hard, but not nearly as hard as knowing what to be obedient to.
A willingness to be obedient is part of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit. We have to be willing to actually follow His commands before He gives them. The whole process of offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit is going to be different for each of us. It is not easy. In many cases we are not ready or able to make the offering because of our misunderstandings. So we need to ask the Lord to give us the experiences we need in order to learn how to make the offering acceptable unto Him. This will require asking the Lord to help us identify and remove all of the idols in our life.
the Lord, through the HG does NOT give us any personal "commandments until we have proved to him that we can live the commandments that he ahs already given . . through man . . .through prophets, if you will, . . . recorded in the scriptures and spoken today . . .

you're not gonna get those higher personal commandments until you prove you can live the ones Jesus has already asked you to live that came from another source . . him and his prophets of any age . . .not my opinion . . . dcotrine
Seems like a fair argument to be made. I would argue that if we seek the Lord's will, He is going to command us to search the scriptures.