LDS Freedom Forum

Maroriginal1 wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 8:33 am Instead of arguing I ask questions. If Satan uses deception to fight for your soul, what do you think it looks like? Getting people to see it on their own is far more powerful than winning any argument.

Niemand wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 8:38 am

FoundMyEden wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 7:56 am The demons are real. I have previously talked about an incident (in primary) where the nursery leader verbally attacked me in front of a room full of kids and parents. I had to cast out the demon by calling on Christ. I could them hissing from her mouth and when she left the room it went silent.

Can you tell me some more about this or link to it, please? It might be instructive. I'd like to know how you went about it.

krp435 wrote: ↑March 28th, 2022, 7:49 pm Our ward Primary President wears a rainbow pin every Sunday.

sam_onofree wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 10:51 am This will only get worse as years go by. In public schools across the country (even in Utah), they are teaching children that they should have 0 tolerance for anyone who is not for the gay agenda (and BLM for that matter). They teach that those people are, essentially, less than human and are okay to be demonized. They're being taught that words are literally violence and you do not have to tolerate violence and that you should fight back with violence. Reading these comments has made it clear that this train of thought has caught on like wildfire and a lot of you have experienced it.

Maroriginal1 wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 8:33 am…The rainbow symbol is the mockery of a stolen token. How covenant people cannot see this is a sign of how capable Satan is. The women in the church are falling hard over this.

We are at spiritual war. To win a war you have to know the enemies tactics. When these topics come up in RS this is my favorite go to from the bygone ensign.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s ... n?lang=eng

the forces of evil are fighting desperately to capture as many souls as they can.

Instead of arguing I ask questions. If Satan uses deception to fight for your soul, what do you think it looks like? Getting people to see it on their own is far more powerful than winning any argument.

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 12:19 pm I had to unfriend someone on Facebook, or maybe I even blocked him, can't remember, because he just all of a sudden started tagging me in posts. He is gay and was a member of the church. So he started hating on the church, I guess, and anyone associated with the church. So he'd tag me in his posts and hate me just for being a member of the church. We had never even had a discussion about homosexuality at all!!

A sister-in-law who is lesbian basically hates me and my husband because we are members of the church. We have tried to love her and her girlfriend. We have invited them to have dinner with us and they declined. I think they will always hate us as long as we are associated with the Church or the scriptures, unless we go out of our way to post positive things about gayness, I guess.

FoundMyEden wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 10:30 am

Niemand wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 8:38 am

FoundMyEden wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 7:56 am The demons are real. I have previously talked about an incident (in primary) where the nursery leader verbally attacked me in front of a room full of kids and parents. I had to cast out the demon by calling on Christ. I could them hissing from her mouth and when she left the room it went silent.

Can you tell me some more about this or link to it, please? It might be instructive. I'd like to know how you went about it.

Well shoot, now I can’t find the link but I will try to repeat the memory the best I can. I had two incidences…one where I was being verbally attacked by a neighbor (who was the bishops wife) and she wouldn’t leave me alone over a miscommunication we were having on property lines, of all things.

I had my daughter with me and I was trying to be cautious about what was coming out of my mouth but the neighbor got really mad and started yelling, calling me a jerk. My daughter yelled back “you’re being a jerk!” (Mind you she was only about 2-3 at the time…anyway), the neighbor continued to go off after she heard my daughter say that. But I was done at that point and just said to her, “In Jesus name, I command you to leave.”
It stopped her in her tracks and she literally was taken back…like her body fell backwards. She stumbled and kind of stormed away but that was it. End of confrontation.

The second time I was in church and there was a super anal nursery teacher put in position. I had an almost 18 month old daughter so my husband and I would go in to try to get her used to being around the other kids. This wasn’t our first rodeo so we’ve been through the whole drop you kid off and run, and that never worked w our kids so we kinda ease them in as every parent should until they feel comfortable.

The teacher didn’t like this and had the new curriculum and new program set up for all the kids to sit in a half circle for 15-20 minutes at the beginning of nursery when normally, little’s would come in and be welcomed and get to wiggle a bit after sitting through sacrament for an hour.

So my husband and I went in w our daughter and stood quietly to the side, our daughter was asked to come sit down but long story short…she didn’t want to do that and it didn’t go over well w the teacher.

I was going to let her roll a ball in the back of the classroom to keep her quite. The teacher came over to grab her and make her sit down and I politely said that it was okay and I could help her. She was pissed. Like “How dare you question my authority” pissed. She started arguing about how THIS is how we do it and she (my daughter) CAN’T be back here playing. I’m not the type of person who likes confrontation but when challenged around my kids, I stand my ground…so I told her to please back off, because she was in my face. It was embarrassing, she was making a scene, and the kids and parents were all watching. She continued arguing and so I said “God bless you…you need to back off” something to that extent like three times …I even said I was going to go get the bishop. Finally I think I remember saying “In Jesus name…Get back!”. She was fuming at this point, turned around and tried to get everyone to leave and said there was someone else now (apparently me?) who could take over and stormed out of the room. It was crazy to see her face twisting and contorted with anger as she left. My husband actually left the room right before she stormed out and came back in after she left with a “What just happened?” Look on his face.

Serragon wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 12:44 pm

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 12:19 pm I had to unfriend someone on Facebook, or maybe I even blocked him, can't remember, because he just all of a sudden started tagging me in posts. He is gay and was a member of the church. So he started hating on the church, I guess, and anyone associated with the church. So he'd tag me in his posts and hate me just for being a member of the church. We had never even had a discussion about homosexuality at all!!

A sister-in-law who is lesbian basically hates me and my husband because we are members of the church. We have tried to love her and her girlfriend. We have invited them to have dinner with us and they declined. I think they will always hate us as long as we are associated with the Church or the scriptures, unless we go out of our way to post positive things about gayness, I guess.

This is what happens to people who have completely lost themselves to their emotions and their natural man. They can't see things rationally at all. The foundational truth is how they personally feel about something.

This is why they are so hateful. And why they accuse others of being hateful. They are so corrupted by their emotions that they can't conceive of anyone else being any different.

And Satan uses these people as they are easily manipulated. And this is why the Church's position on this topic is so awful. We are actively encouraging and nurturing this emotional nonsense instead of standing up against it. We have let these people infiltrate our institution, and the fruit will be eradication of those opposed to homosexuality from the church.

Look at our church web page. It is a temple to wokeness. Look at how we teach Christ. His primary role is to help you feel better about yourself no matter what. Abortion, homosexuality, immodesty... silence. Non existent racist activites... Calls to repentence by our prophet.

Gone are the calls to change your nature and be born again. Gone are the calls to overcome your natural man. There is no one standing up against this evil nonsense. The watchmen on the tower are silent, or even worse complicit.

krp435 wrote: ↑March 28th, 2022, 7:49 pm Our ward Primary President wears a rainbow pin every Sunday.

spiritMan wrote: ↑March 28th, 2022, 8:16 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑March 28th, 2022, 7:09 pm In conversations I’ve followed for years, it has become crazy-town in the way the pro-lgbtq folks say it’s all about love, love, love, love, and that we all need to quit being judgemental.....UNTIL you don’t agree 100% with them. Then they hate you, call you the worst names in the book, and heap their judgement on you.

I’m sorry this happened to you personally. I have siblings who would do the same to me, so our relationships have fizzled. I can’t be who I am with them, so I’m better off finding real family.

It is coming to a head real soon. I think within the next 5 years we are going to have a resolution one way or the other. Look how far it has come in 5 years and then just project out in 5 more years.

I told my wife just recently; our oldest is getting ready for FSY. He is our eyes and ears (since they won't release the curriculum prior) and he is very savy. If there is any preaching of LGBTQ+ism or CRT at FSY (and I'm pretty sure there will be); we are done and out.

I will pull my kids from the Church and we will find somewhere else to go; not because I don't believe the Book of Mormon (or JS), but I will not allow my children to be in a religion where at the tender young men/young women ages they are being indoctrinated into this crap.

I will probably still go to the local ward to fight it; but I won't allow my children to go and I will let everyone in the ward know why. That's a red line for me.

JuneBug12000 wrote: ↑March 28th, 2022, 11:11 pm

tdj wrote: ↑March 28th, 2022, 7:00 pm I'm left reeling. This started awhile back, but festered up over the weekend. I am, or WAS friends with a woman from church over facebook. I think we were friends in real life also. At least I considered her a friend. She's always been willing to help our family whenever we had an emergency. Just a really good person over all.
The problem happened when she made a comment on facebook about how the story of sodom and gomorah was inaccurately potrayed as the reason for it's destruction being homosexuality. She said this wasn't true and that it was because of the rape culture of that city. I disagreed with her and said that it may have played a role, but other things did also as well as the sin of homosexuality. She kind of went off on that. At least by HER standards. She claimed that being gay was normal and that people naturally wanted love and companionship. She said that church folk needed to stop teaching that about sodom and gomorah because it was extremely hurtful to our LBGTQ members and not true. I didn't disagree with her on the rape culture part, but pointed out that God still doesn't want people engaging in gay relations, and mentioned other scripture all thru the bible against homosexual sex. She said the validity of those scriptures was in doubt, and that it was unnecessary to bring them up anyway. Jesus was the judge, not us, and that he would judge how we treated people, and not by anything else.

The next problem arose when she posted a pic of her on facebook wearing a rainbow pin saying she was going to wear it every Sunday to support her LGBTQ church members and family. I learned her sister apparently is a lesbian since I saw that her facebook page shows her and another girl in a wedding dress. In the second post with the rainbow pin, her sister claimed she was there to verbally assault (she used those words) anyone who said anything nasty. She then referred to me after I sent an angry emoji in response to that. She said I was being hurtful by bringing up scriptures and spreading hate. Both her and the friend claimed that and I did no such thing. I approached the subject as kindly as I could, and never advocated nastiness to anyone. But she keeps insisting I did, and throws the word "hate" around like cheap candy in describing my opinion on it. She said every time she mentioned it I had to "chime in" with hateful rhetoric. I can't stress strongly enough how much of an effort I made to be NON hurtful and combative on the subject. But it just didn't matter. I finally gave up and posted that it would never happen again. She liked that post and responded thank you. Initially I unfollowed her, but after a day or two I decided to just unfriend her completely. Several backed and congratulated her. No one backed me. I'm still left reeling that this conversation even happened with another church member. And in the most conservative location in all the world at that.

Something that I took away from that. Several things: For one, Satan really has managed to get a stronghold on this world if he's managed to infiltrate so much into what traditionally is considered regular, otherwise normal every day folk. Second: Homosexuality has a real demonic component to it just based on how people are treated who disagree with it, no matter how mild a disagreement. Even with my church "friends" on facebook, there was an extra level of nasty, and vitriol on the subject. It's hard to explain, but when you've felt the vibe of a demon nearby influencing people, you recognize it when you sense it again. Homosexuality and its supporters has that vibe. Third: There's a passage in the Bible about in the end times people will be deceived. I think we are seeing this being played out right now.

This happened last week, and again several days ago, and my head is still spinning in shock.

I know how you feel; fight or flight, sick to your stomach shock. And yes, the demons are real. I would encourage you to cast them out after such encounters.

I have been in 2 RS lessons where what you described happened in real time.

I prayed for you to recover a feeling of calm and peace.

It really is disconcerting and a bit hard to recover from. The week after the first incident (RS teacher had queer friend "teach" RS about how things were going to be now, right after Supreme Court decision back in 2015) I had a handful of sisters stop by my house to visit and try to get their bearing on what had happened.

A separate time, I quoted the Family a Proclamation during RS when the lesson was on family. (Crazy right? lol) And the person who commented after me just tore into me. It was so unexpected I actually got tunnel vision and dropped the microphone I was holding (we used microphones so the older sisters could hear the comments.)

I didn't want to go back to RS, but God is good and I was called into nursery soon after and stayed there for 3 years.

Unfortunately, when I returned to RS after that calling was the meeting where the woman asked a question about protecting her children from what was happening with LGBTQ stuff and a handful of women started yelling and actually got up out of their seats and moved toward her. The meeting was ended immediately, but she was too scared to ever come back to RS. She would come with her family to Sacrament meeting only.

tdj wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 3:16 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑March 28th, 2022, 8:16 pm

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑March 28th, 2022, 7:09 pm In conversations I’ve followed for years, it has become crazy-town in the way the pro-lgbtq folks say it’s all about love, love, love, love, and that we all need to quit being judgemental.....UNTIL you don’t agree 100% with them. Then they hate you, call you the worst names in the book, and heap their judgement on you.

I’m sorry this happened to you personally. I have siblings who would do the same to me, so our relationships have fizzled. I can’t be who I am with them, so I’m better off finding real family.

It is coming to a head real soon. I think within the next 5 years we are going to have a resolution one way or the other. Look how far it has come in 5 years and then just project out in 5 more years.

I told my wife just recently; our oldest is getting ready for FSY. He is our eyes and ears (since they won't release the curriculum prior) and he is very savy. If there is any preaching of LGBTQ+ism or CRT at FSY (and I'm pretty sure there will be); we are done and out.

I will pull my kids from the Church and we will find somewhere else to go; not because I don't believe the Book of Mormon (or JS), but I will not allow my children to be in a religion where at the tender young men/young women ages they are being indoctrinated into this crap.

I will probably still go to the local ward to fight it; but I won't allow my children to go and I will let everyone in the ward know why. That's a red line for me.

What is FSY?

sam_onofree wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 10:51 am This will only get worse as years go by. In public schools across the country (even in Utah), they are teaching children that they should have 0 tolerance for anyone who is not for the gay agenda (and BLM for that matter). They teach that those people are, essentially, less than human and are okay to be demonized. They're being taught that words are literally violence and you do not have to tolerate violence and that you should fight back with violence. Reading these comments has made it clear that this train of thought has caught on like wildfire and a lot of you have experienced it.

tdj wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 3:37 pm WOW!! Maybe I DON'T want anymore kids? I'm 46, have 3 kids and my youngest is 13. I've been thinking about praying for one more baby before menopause hits. Now I don't know if that's such a great idea.

Niemand wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 1:40 pm

FoundMyEden wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 10:30 am

Niemand wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 8:38 am

FoundMyEden wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 7:56 am The demons are real. I have previously talked about an incident (in primary) where the nursery leader verbally attacked me in front of a room full of kids and parents. I had to cast out the demon by calling on Christ. I could them hissing from her mouth and when she left the room it went silent.

Can you tell me some more about this or link to it, please? It might be instructive. I'd like to know how you went about it.

Well shoot, now I can’t find the link but I will try to repeat the memory the best I can. I had two incidences…one where I was being verbally attacked by a neighbor (who was the bishops wife) and she wouldn’t leave me alone over a miscommunication we were having on property lines, of all things.

I had my daughter with me and I was trying to be cautious about what was coming out of my mouth but the neighbor got really mad and started yelling, calling me a jerk. My daughter yelled back “you’re being a jerk!” (Mind you she was only about 2-3 at the time…anyway), the neighbor continued to go off after she heard my daughter say that. But I was done at that point and just said to her, “In Jesus name, I command you to leave.”
It stopped her in her tracks and she literally was taken back…like her body fell backwards. She stumbled and kind of stormed away but that was it. End of confrontation.

The second time I was in church and there was a super anal nursery teacher put in position. I had an almost 18 month old daughter so my husband and I would go in to try to get her used to being around the other kids. This wasn’t our first rodeo so we’ve been through the whole drop you kid off and run, and that never worked w our kids so we kinda ease them in as every parent should until they feel comfortable.

The teacher didn’t like this and had the new curriculum and new program set up for all the kids to sit in a half circle for 15-20 minutes at the beginning of nursery when normally, little’s would come in and be welcomed and get to wiggle a bit after sitting through sacrament for an hour.

So my husband and I went in w our daughter and stood quietly to the side, our daughter was asked to come sit down but long story short…she didn’t want to do that and it didn’t go over well w the teacher.

I was going to let her roll a ball in the back of the classroom to keep her quite. The teacher came over to grab her and make her sit down and I politely said that it was okay and I could help her. She was pissed. Like “How dare you question my authority” pissed. She started arguing about how THIS is how we do it and she (my daughter) CAN’T be back here playing. I’m not the type of person who likes confrontation but when challenged around my kids, I stand my ground…so I told her to please back off, because she was in my face. It was embarrassing, she was making a scene, and the kids and parents were all watching. She continued arguing and so I said “God bless you…you need to back off” something to that extent like three times …I even said I was going to go get the bishop. Finally I think I remember saying “In Jesus name…Get back!”. She was fuming at this point, turned around and tried to get everyone to leave and said there was someone else now (apparently me?) who could take over and stormed out of the room. It was crazy to see her face twisting and contorted with anger as she left. My husband actually left the room right before she stormed out and came back in after she left with a “What just happened?” Look on his face.

Thank you, I appreciate that. I don't know what to make of the second one - she could have just been very angry, I know children can be hard work... the first one sounds more like what I was thinking of.

I did have an experience last year where there was a man across the street babbling and making bizarre comments at me as I waited for a bus, and seemed to know a couple of things about me. I told whatever it was to leave him under my breath (he wouldn't have heard me) and immediately it ceased. He wasn't harmful but I think he was under demonic influence. (Probably both that and mental health issues - I don't see the two as mutually exclusive)

farmerchick wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 2:26 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 12:44 pm

Wolfwoman wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 12:19 pm I had to unfriend someone on Facebook, or maybe I even blocked him, can't remember, because he just all of a sudden started tagging me in posts. He is gay and was a member of the church. So he started hating on the church, I guess, and anyone associated with the church. So he'd tag me in his posts and hate me just for being a member of the church. We had never even had a discussion about homosexuality at all!!

A sister-in-law who is lesbian basically hates me and my husband because we are members of the church. We have tried to love her and her girlfriend. We have invited them to have dinner with us and they declined. I think they will always hate us as long as we are associated with the Church or the scriptures, unless we go out of our way to post positive things about gayness, I guess.

This is what happens to people who have completely lost themselves to their emotions and their natural man. They can't see things rationally at all. The foundational truth is how they personally feel about something.

This is why they are so hateful. And why they accuse others of being hateful. They are so corrupted by their emotions that they can't conceive of anyone else being any different.

And Satan uses these people as they are easily manipulated. And this is why the Church's position on this topic is so awful. We are actively encouraging and nurturing this emotional nonsense instead of standing up against it. We have let these people infiltrate our institution, and the fruit will be eradication of those opposed to homosexuality from the church.

Look at our church web page. It is a temple to wokeness. Look at how we teach Christ. His primary role is to help you feel better about yourself no matter what. Abortion, homosexuality, immodesty... silence. Non existent racist activites... Calls to repentence by our prophet.

Gone are the calls to change your nature and be born again. Gone are the calls to overcome your natural man. There is no one standing up against this evil nonsense. The watchmen on the tower are silent, or even worse complicit.

I'm convinced the silence from the leaders just means time is short.....most people in the church don't feel a need for repentance so there is no need to call for it.....there is no desire in the majority of the people to link pride in the book of Mormon to pride and the rainbow sign of the lgbtqiia+.... Of course there are layered meanings to pride in the bom and it could mean a myriad of things...but through the context of my life experience and my generation where the pride cycle was beat into my brain every time I went to church as a youth.....I'm pretty convinced it refers to the lgbtqiia movement and corruption of the symbol of the rainbow.....it seems pretty clear to me the warning from the book of Mormon "beware of pride" means this... The stakes are high...time is short....people love pleasure, lust and lies....the natural man is desirable....we have the technology and the will....what a perfect way to finish strong by attacking the most sacred thing God has created in his own image...our bodies....corrupt it...mutilate it...confuse it...capture it and destroy it....Satan is in it to win it....nothing is off limits....

tdj wrote: ↑March 28th, 2022, 7:00 pm I'm left reeling. This started awhile back, but festered up over the weekend. I am, or WAS friends with a woman from church over facebook. I think we were friends in real life also. At least I considered her a friend. She's always been willing to help our family whenever we had an emergency. Just a really good person over all.
The problem happened when she made a comment on facebook about how the story of sodom and gomorah was inaccurately potrayed as the reason for it's destruction being homosexuality. She said this wasn't true and that it was because of the rape culture of that city. I disagreed with her and said that it may have played a role, but other things did also as well as the sin of homosexuality. She kind of went off on that. At least by HER standards. She claimed that being gay was normal and that people naturally wanted love and companionship. She said that church folk needed to stop teaching that about sodom and gomorah because it was extremely hurtful to our LBGTQ members and not true. I didn't disagree with her on the rape culture part, but pointed out that God still doesn't want people engaging in gay relations, and mentioned other scripture all thru the bible against homosexual sex. She said the validity of those scriptures was in doubt, and that it was unnecessary to bring them up anyway. Jesus was the judge, not us, and that he would judge how we treated people, and not by anything else.

The next problem arose when she posted a pic of her on facebook wearing a rainbow pin saying she was going to wear it every Sunday to support her LGBTQ church members and family. I learned her sister apparently is a lesbian since I saw that her facebook page shows her and another girl in a wedding dress. In the second post with the rainbow pin, her sister claimed she was there to verbally assault (she used those words) anyone who said anything nasty. She then referred to me after I sent an angry emoji in response to that. She said I was being hurtful by bringing up scriptures and spreading hate. Both her and the friend claimed that and I did no such thing. I approached the subject as kindly as I could, and never advocated nastiness to anyone. But she keeps insisting I did, and throws the word "hate" around like cheap candy in describing my opinion on it. She said every time she mentioned it I had to "chime in" with hateful rhetoric. I can't stress strongly enough how much of an effort I made to be NON hurtful and combative on the subject. But it just didn't matter. I finally gave up and posted that it would never happen again. She liked that post and responded thank you. Initially I unfollowed her, but after a day or two I decided to just unfriend her completely. Several backed and congratulated her. No one backed me. I'm still left reeling that this conversation even happened with another church member. And in the most conservative location in all the world at that.

Something that I took away from that. Several things: For one, Satan really has managed to get a stronghold on this world if he's managed to infiltrate so much into what traditionally is considered regular, otherwise normal every day folk. Second: Homosexuality has a real demonic component to it just based on how people are treated who disagree with it, no matter how mild a disagreement. Even with my church "friends" on facebook, there was an extra level of nasty, and vitriol on the subject. It's hard to explain, but when you've felt the vibe of a demon nearby influencing people, you recognize it when you sense it again. Homosexuality and its supporters has that vibe. Third: There's a passage in the Bible about in the end times people will be deceived. I think we are seeing this being played out right now.

This happened last week, and again several days ago, and my head is still spinning in shock.

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 9:55 pm But, the pendulum swung in short order to everyone else is wrong and not accepting their perspective and allowing them to push it to everyone (including young children) is hate. It is terrible.

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 29th, 2022, 9:55 pm I don't think it is correct to tell someone that is legally married that anything but straight intercourse if a perversion. I that is your opinion, keep it to yourself. It is nobody's business what happens between a married couple, if it doesn't put one or both down or derogotory, etc... IMO. Stick with sins like unmarried or out-of-wedlock or adultery please.