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Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 9:20 pm
by 762X545
Why has LDSFF turned into little more than a forum dedicated to queers in the church? Let me ask you this question. How many times did Christ turn tables over and whip the leaders of the church for their opinions on homosexuality? Now how many times did he do it to those who were charging (tithing) the poor people to enter the temples? The church's stance on mandatory tithes from the poor does a lot more damage to the membership and their daily lives than their increasing acceptance of homos.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 9:33 pm
by John Tavner
1975 LDS member Sergeant Leonard Matlovich was featured on the September 8 cover of Time magazine with the caption "I Am a Homosexual" for his challenging of the U.S. military ban against gay men and lesbian women. [171] He was subsequently discharged from the military for openly stating his sexual orientation [172] and excommunicated from the Church two months after the article was released. [1] : 442  [173]
(one could argue he "did" something, but it should be noted that most people during this time that labeled themselves as homosexual acted on those impulses)

1976 – A version of the Church Handbook was released changing the 1968 reading of "homo-sexual acts" being grounds for a church court to "moral transgression" like "homosexuality". [183] [184] This change seemed to make Mormons vulnerable to church punishment for having a homosexual orientation alone even without sexual activity. [1] : 382  From 1976 until 1989 under president Kimball the Church Handbook continued to call for church discipline for members attracted to the same sex even if they were celibate, equating merely being homosexual with the seriousness of acts of adultery and child molestation. https://wikimili.com/en/Timeline_of_LGB ... _Rights-60 I met a few on the mission who were exed for this according to them.

Just like most "excommunications" they aren't made public, but they happen, it happened depending on the area and it was not "punished" or considered wrong to do so. It comes from a bit earlier when at BYU Under president Ernest Wilkinson a complete ban of any students attracted to people of the same sex regardless of behavior was instituted at BYU per the directives of apostles Kimball and Petersen. [1] : 379  [9] : 154  Excommunications have generally been local matters, unless a person makes it larger than local.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 9:36 pm
by BuriedTartaria
Reluctant Watchman wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 6:51 pm Did I just see that Nelson announced 17 new temples... wow the church is growing by leaps and bounds... :)
Seriously 17 new temples? I do not believe that half of the temples that exist operate at full capacity. There are not that many active members around the world doing temple work that often.

I believe temple building has become a controllable thing they can do to signal to members that their message is true


You can't create more members, and you can't fabricate revelation (well you can, but I don't think they're creative enough to make anything that would be interesting and/or stand up to scrutiny) but when you have a trillion dollars, you can create more temples

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 9:37 pm
by John Tavner
762X545 wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 9:20 pm Why has LDSFF turned into little more than a forum dedicated to queers in the church? Let me ask you this question. How many times did Christ turn tables over and whip the leaders of the church for their opinions on homosexuality? Now how many times did he do it to those who were charging (tithing) the poor people to enter the temples? The church's stance on mandatory tithes from the poor does a lot more damage to the membership and their daily lives than their increasing acceptance of homos.
To answer your question neither. He took a whip and flipped the tables of money changers because the money changers were making money off the sacrifices, by charging exorbitant prices for the animals needed for the sacrifices, this affected the pilgrims to the temple, it had nothing to do with "tithes." They were abusing the purpose of the temple in order to get gain (which it can be argued that it is happening today, with tithes, but it wasn't over "tithes"). You could also enter the temple without making sacrifices, you just couldn't fully "repent."

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 3rd, 2022, 9:37 pm
by Being There
762X545 wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 9:20 pm Why has LDSFF turned into little more than a forum dedicated to queers in the church? Let me ask you this question. How many times did Christ turn tables over and whip the leaders of the church for their opinions on homosexuality? Now how many times did he do it to those who were charging (tithing) the poor people to enter the temples? The church's stance on mandatory tithes from the poor does a lot more damage to the membership and their daily lives than their increasing acceptance of homos.
what a joke.
Your comparisons are ridiculous, and moral balance has been compromised
Are you trying to justify yourself ?

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 12:22 am
by logonbump
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 3:40 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 3:29 pm
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 3:23 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 3:20 pm

We don't live in a world of limited options???
... I've never in my life known someone to claim that. So we can have our cake and eat it too after all?
Somehow you believe that serving a mission is a RIGHT. It is not.

All that crap about "raising the bar", just a bunch of hypocrites. "Raise the bar" on everyone else . . .unless you are a homosexual. Now you are part of a special class of God's children that everyone must bow down to and are exempt from any need to repent.
Nope. I didn't say anything like that.

Having a temptation is not a sin. Neither does it make them special.
You already doubled-down once on saying it's not a big deal for young women to be companions with young men on missions.

So you might as well double-down again by saying that there is no problem with individuals who have sexual/romantic temptations to little children to openly proclaim they are "minor attracted persons".
Wait... maybe they could pair the worthy, self-identified gay elders with the sel-identified gay sisters!
I've always had this though: that the SSA phenomenon is no different than a married spouse who is not attracted to or is paired with an asexual spouse; or to one whom they are not otherwise compatible with; and is to whom they are not authorized to sleep with. Same dilemma. Tempted outside of the traditional bounds. So what? Nothing special there. Just a fetish.
Shall those of us in this situation self-identify? What does that make us? Special or just lustful?

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 3:35 am
by Niemand
Atticus wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 6:36 pm
Niemand wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:11 pm Replying to both your accounts:
Still paranoid, I see.
Niemand wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:11 pm Paul preached in the Areopagus, Jesus on a hillside.
Please actually read those verses in D&C 124 and D&C 126 this time.
Nah, pal, you don't "see" anything. You don't know the definition of "paranoid". You, or someone who has exactly your style, have been posting under multiple accounts on here. I'm not the only one to pick up on this and nowhere near the first.

The current Apostles do not go out and preach to the non-LDS world, except at the most minimal level. Most non-members outside the Mormon corridor have never heard of them.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 4:12 am
by Niemand
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 4:21 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 4:14 pm
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 4:12 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 4:05 pm

Sorry, my post was unclear. I was saying I did not agree with what he was saying.
So someone who is saying they are "tempted" just self-identifies as LGBTQ+.
And someone who is saying they go beyond "tempted" self-identify as . . . what?
What do I care what terms people use? I only care about what is sin and what isn't. Temptation isn't.
If I have a "temptation" (as you call it) to sexually desire trees. Why would I need to "come out", why would I need to tell the entire world. WORLD, I AM SEXUALLY TEMPTED BY TREES!!!!!!

What purpose would that serve, except to get people acclimated to my ungodly sexual temptations? If I talk about it enough, make it seem like "no big deal" enough that when I actually do it it's not a big deal anymore.
I wonder if President Oaks' wife is a dendrophile? You could almost say his bark is worse than his bite.

No more tree related jokes. Unless your name is Hazel or you're a member of the John Birch Society or like Chris Pine.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 4:15 am
by marc
Now that GC is over and most of us have said our piece, I'm going to quote Joseph Smith:

"I reproved him as Pharisaical and hypocritical; and not edifying the people; and shewed the Saints what Temperance, faith virtue, charity and truth were. I charged the Saints not to follow the example of the adversary in accusing the brethren, and said “if you do not accuse each other God will not accuse you. If you have no accuser you will enter heaven; and if you will follow the Revelations and instructions which God gives you through me, I will take you into heaven as my back load. If you will not accuse me, I will not accuse you. If you will throw a cloak of charity over my sins, I will over yours— for charity covereth a multitude of sins."

As I said earlier in this thread, I have compassion for our leaders. The fact that I am a sinner helps me to remember that I can have charity for our leaders and cover their sins with a cloak of charity. May God cover my sins with a cloak of charity, too. I know I need it!

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 4:37 am
by pancake
marc wrote: April 4th, 2022, 4:15 am I'm going to quote Joseph Smith:

"I reproved him as Pharisaical and hypocritical; and not edifying the people;
There is an entity here being reproved by Joseph for not edifying the people. Not edifying the people is worthy of reproval by Joseph's standards. How much worse would Joseph see the lds leaders, who are not only not edifying the people, but are also taking their focus away from coming unto Christ through the new and everlasting covenant?

D&C 22
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Manchester, New York, April 16, 1830
1 Behold, I say unto you that all old covenants have I caused to be done away in this thing; and this is a new and an everlasting covenant, even that which was from the beginning.
2 Wherefore, although a man should be baptized an hundred times it availeth him nothing, for you cannot enter in at the strait gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works.
3 For it is because of your dead works that I have caused this last covenant and this church to be built up unto me, even as in days of old.
4 Wherefore, enter ye in at the gate, as I have commanded, and seek not to counsel your God. Amen.

The new and everlasting covenant, even that which was from the beginning, is described everywhere in the scriptures:
Scriptures describing the new and everlasting covenant:
Ether 4:15-18
15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.
16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed.
17 Therefore, when ye shall receive this record ye may know that the work of the Father has commenced upon all the face of the land.
18 Therefore, repent all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me, and believe in my gospel, and be baptized in my name; for he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned; and signs shall follow them that believe in my name.
Doctrine & Covenants 93:1
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;
2 Nephi 32:3-6
3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.
4 Wherefore, now after I have spoken these words, if ye cannot understand them it will be because ye ask not, neither do ye knock; wherefore, ye are not brought into the light, but must perish in the dark.
5 For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.
6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.
Alma 7:14-15
14 Now I say unto you that ye must repent, and be born again; for the Spirit saith if ye are not born again ye cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye may be washed from your sins, that ye may have faith on the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world, who is mighty to save and to cleanse from all unrighteousness.
15 Yea, I say unto you come and fear not, and lay aside every sin, which easily doth beset you, which doth bind you down to destruction, yea, come and go forth, and show unto your God that ye are willing to repent of your sins and enter into a covenant with him to keep his commandments, and witness it unto him this day by going into the waters of baptism.
3 Nephi 9:17-22
17 And as many as have received me, to them have I given to become the sons of God; and even so will I to as many as shall believe on my name, for behold, by me redemption cometh, and in me is the law of Moses fulfilled.
18 I am the light and the life of the world. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
19 And ye shall offer up unto me no more the shedding of blood; yea, your sacrifices and your burnt offerings shall be done away, for I will accept none of your sacrifices and your burnt offerings.
20 And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost, even as the Lamanites, because of their faith in me at the time of their conversion, were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and they knew it not.
21 Behold, I have come unto the world to bring redemption unto the world, to save the world from sin.
22 Therefore, whoso repenteth and cometh unto me as a little child, him will I receive, for of such is the kingdom of God. Behold, for such I have laid down my life, and have taken it up again; therefore repent, and come unto me ye ends of the earth, and be saved.
3 Nephi 11:32-41
32 And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me.
33 And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.
34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.
35 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and I bear record of it from the Father; and whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost.
36 And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one.
37 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things.
38 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.
41 Therefore, go forth unto this people, and declare the words which I have spoken, unto the ends of the earth.
3 Nephi 12:18-19
18 For verily I say unto you, one jot nor one tittle hath not passed away from the law, but in me it hath all been fulfilled.
19 And behold, I have given you the law and the commandments of my Father, that ye shall believe in me, and that ye shall repent of your sins, and come unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit. Behold, ye have the commandments before you, and the law is fulfilled.
Matthew 3:11
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Luke 3:16
16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Revelation given through Joseph Smith, Jr. (April, 1830)
Revelation to the church of Christ, which was established in these last days, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and thirty: Given April, 1830, in consequence of some desiring to unite with the church without re-baptism, who had previously been baptized.
1 Behold I say unto you, that all old covenants have I caused to be done away in this thing, and this is a new and an everlasting covenant; even that which was from the beginning.— Wherefore, although a man should be baptized an hundred times, it availeth him nothing; for you cannot enter in at the straight gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works; for it is because of your dead works, that I have caused this last covenant, and this church to be built up unto me; even as in days of old. Wherefore enter ye in at the gate, as I have commanded, and seek not to counsel your God. Amen.
Isaiah 24:5
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
More scriptures describing the new and everlasting covenant:
D&C 40:1-3
1 Behold, verily I say unto you, that the heart of my servant James Covel was right before me, for he covenanted with me that he would obey my word.
2 And he received the word with gladness, but straightway Satan tempted him; and the fear of persecution and the cares of the world caused him to reject the word.
3 Wherefore he broke my covenant, and it remaineth with me to do with him as seemeth me good. Amen.

Mosiah 18:10
10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?

Mosiah 5:5-9
5 And we are willing to enter into a covenant with our God to do his will, and to be obedient to his commandments in all things that he shall command us, all the remainder of our days, that we may not bring upon ourselves a never-ending torment, as has been spoken by the angel, that we may not drink out of the cup of the wrath of God.
6 And now, these are the words which king Benjamin desired of them; and therefore he said unto them: Ye have spoken the words that I desired; and the covenant which ye have made is a righteous covenant.
7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.
8 And under this head ye are made free, and there is no other head whereby ye can be made free. There is no other name given whereby salvation cometh; therefore, I would that ye should take upon you the name of Christ, all you that have entered into the covenant with God that ye should be obedient unto the end of your lives.
9 And it shall come to pass that whosoever doeth this shall be found at the right hand of God, for he shall know the name by which he is called; for he shall be called by the name of Christ.

1 Nephi 3:7
7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

D&C 133:57
57 And for this cause, that men might be made partakers of the glories which were to be revealed, the Lord sent forth the fulness of his gospel, his everlasting covenant, reasoning in plainness and simplicity

D&C 66:2
2 Verily I say unto you, blessed are you for receiving mine everlasting covenant, even the fulness of my gospel, sent forth unto the children of men, that they might have life and be made partakers of the glories which are to be revealed in the last days, as it was written by the prophets and apostles in days of old.

D&C 39:11
11 And if thou do this, I have prepared thee for a greater work. Thou shalt preach the fulness of my gospel, which I have sent forth in these last days, the covenant which I have sent forth to recover my people, which are of the house of Israel.

2 Nephi 2:6-8
6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.
7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.
8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

Isaiah 1:18
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Alma 22:15-18
15 And it came to pass that after Aaron had expounded these things unto him, the king said: What shall I do that I may have this eternal life of which thou hast spoken? Yea, what shall I do that I may be born of God, having this wicked spirit rooted out of my breast, and receive his Spirit, that I may be filled with joy, that I may not be cast off at the last day? Behold, said he, I will give up all that I possess, yea, I will forsake my kingdom, that I may receive this great joy.
16 But Aaron said unto him: If thou desirest this thing, if thou wilt bow down before God, yea, if thou wilt repent of all thy sins, and will bow down before God, and call on his name in faith, believing that ye shall receive, then shalt thou receive the hope which thou desirest.
17 And it came to pass that when Aaron had said these words, the king did bow down before the Lord, upon his knees; yea, even he did prostrate himself upon the earth, and cried mightily, saying:
18 O God, Aaron hath told me that there is a God; and if there is a God, and if thou art God, wilt thou make thyself known unto me, and I will give away all my sins to know thee, and that I may be raised from the dead, and be saved at the last day. And now when the king had said these words, he was struck as if he were dead.

D&C 22:1-4
1 Behold, I say unto you that all old covenants have I caused to be done away in this thing; and this is a new and an everlasting covenant, even that which was from the beginning.
2 Wherefore, although a man should be baptized an hundred times it availeth him nothing, for you cannot enter in at the strait gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works.
3 For it is because of your dead works that I have caused this last covenant and this church to be built up unto me, even as in days of old.
4 Wherefore, enter ye in at the gate, as I have commanded, and seek not to counsel your God. Amen.

Luke 18:9-14
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

2 Nephi 31:19-20
19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

Mosiah 3:19
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

Moses 6:66-68
66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;
67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.
68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

D&C 84:43-57
43 And I now give unto you a commandment to beware concerning yourselves, to give diligent heed to the words of eternal life.
44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.
45 For the word of the Lord is truth, and whatsoever is truth is light, and whatsoever is light is Spirit, even the Spirit of Jesus Christ.
46 And the Spirit giveth light to every man that cometh into the world; and the Spirit enlighteneth every man through the world, that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit.
47 And every one that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father.
48 And the Father teacheth him of the covenant which he has renewed and confirmed upon you, which is confirmed upon you for your sakes, and not for your sakes only, but for the sake of the whole world.
49 And the whole world lieth in sin, and groaneth under darkness and under the bondage of sin.
50 And by this you may know they are under the bondage of sin, because they come not unto me.
51 For whoso cometh not unto me is under the bondage of sin.
52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with my voice, and is not of me.
53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

Omni 1:26
26 And now, my beloved brethren, I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved.

1 Samuel 15:22-24
22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
24 And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.

Psalm 40:6-17
6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O Lord, thou knowest.
10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.
11 Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O Lord: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me.
12 For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.
13 Be pleased, O Lord, to deliver me: O Lord, make haste to help me.
14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.
15 Let them be desolate for a reward of their shame that say unto me, Aha, aha.
16 Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee: let such as love thy salvation say continually, The Lord be magnified.
17 But I am poor and needy; yet the Lord thinketh upon me: thou art my help and my deliverer; make no tarrying, O my God.

Psalm 69:29-33
29 But I am poor and sorrowful: let thy salvation, O God, set me up on high.
30 I will praise the name of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving.
31 This also shall please the Lord better than an ox or bullock that hath horns and hoofs.
32 The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek God.
33 For the Lord heareth the poor, and despiseth not his prisoners.

Isaiah 1:11
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

Proverbs 21:1-4
1 The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord pondereth the hearts.
3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice.
4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

Hebrews 10:1-22
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Micah 6:6-8
6 Wherewith shall I come before the Lord, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Romans 2:11-15
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Proverbs 7:1-3
1 My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee.
2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.
3 Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart.

Hebrews 8:8-12
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Isaiah 57:15
15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Isaiah 66:2-3
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog’s neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine’s blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Joel 2:1-3
1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

Leviticus 26:40-42
40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

Psalm 34:18
18 The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Isaiah 1:18-20
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Matthew 5:3
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

D&C 76:69
69 These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.

D&C 107:19
19 To have the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, to have the heavens opened unto them, to commune with the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, and to enjoy the communion and presence of God the Father, and Jesus the mediator of the new covenant.

D&C 45:3-5
3 Listen to him who is the advocate with the Father, who is pleading your cause before him—
4 Saying: Father, behold the sufferings and death of him who did no sin, in whom thou wast well pleased; behold the blood of thy Son which was shed, the blood of him whom thou gavest that thyself might be glorified;
5 Wherefore, Father, spare these my brethren that believe on my name, that they may come unto me and have everlasting life.

Alma 34:16-18
16 And thus mercy can satisfy the demands of justice, and encircles them in the arms of safety, while he that exercises no faith unto repentance is exposed to the whole law of the demands of justice; therefore only unto him that has faith unto repentance is brought about the great and eternal plan of redemption.
17 Therefore may God grant unto you, my brethren, that ye may begin to exercise your faith unto repentance, that ye begin to call upon his holy name, that he would have mercy upon you;
18 Yea, cry unto him for mercy; for he is mighty to save.

Alma 36:12-20
16 And now, for three days and for three nights was I racked, even with the pains of a damned soul.
17 And it came to pass that as I was thus racked with torment, while I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a Son of God, to atone for the sins of the world.
18 Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.
19 And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.
20 And oh, what joy, and what marvelous light I did behold; yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain!

Alma 18:40-41
40 And it came to pass that after he had said all these things, and expounded them to the king, that the king believed all his words.
41 And he began to cry unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, have mercy; according to thy abundant mercy which thou hast had upon the people of Nephi, have upon me, and my people.

Matthew 11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

D&C 131:2 (bracketed phrase added in 1876)
2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

D&C 1:30-31
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

JST Genesis 9:21-25
21 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant, which I made unto thy father Enoch; that, when men should keep all my commandments, Zion should again come on the earth, the city of Enoch which I have caught up unto myself.
22 And this is mine everlasting covenant, that when thy posterity shall embrace the truth, and look upward, then shall Zion look downward, and all the heavens shall shake with gladness, and the earth shall tremble with joy;
23 And the general assembly of the church of the firstborn shall come down out of heaven, and possess the earth, and shall have place until the end come. And this is mine everlasting covenant, which I made with thy father Enoch.
24 And the bow shall be in the cloud, and I will establish my covenant unto thee, which I have made between me and thee, for every living creature of all flesh that shall be upon the earth.
25 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant which I have established between me and thee; for all flesh that shall be upon the earth.

D&C 35:24-25 (note 1835 change from “confounded” to “condemned” in verse 25)
24 Keep all the commandments and covenants by which ye are bound; and I will cause the heavens to shake for your good, and Satan shall tremble and Zion shall rejoice upon the hills and flourish;
25 And Israel shall be saved in mine own due time; and by the keys which I have given shall they be led, and no more be confounded at all.
Other than D&C 132, polygamy is never a commandment from God. And the way D&C 132 introduces polygamy makes it very clear that it goes against all of scripture. It changes the new and everlasting covenant, which is taught everywhere in the scriptures, into celestial marriage. And completely takes our focus away from offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit and faithfully following His voice, His commandments until the end. It is painfully obvious that this is something that has been incredibly difficult for many righteous people to accept. Why would God give such a difficult teaching to the main body of the church? God teaches the plain and simple truth to make it easier for us to progress and come unto Him. If God were to truly release such a doctrine it would not be in a manner to replace his plain and simple truth of offering Him a broken heart and contrite spirit! If anything it would be taught as a completely separate doctrine and only introduced to those who had progressed enough along to be able to accept it. The very manner of its presentation in D&C 132 completely testifies against it! God would not do this to us! Jesus taught in parables so they could learn as much as they were ready for. He didn't tell them straight up, "you need to marry multiple wives or you can't become like me". I testify that if God was going to introduce polygamy it would not be like this! D&C 132 is a fabrication of men and is leading the people away from Christ! If you have prayed about this subject before I would ask you to pray again, this time specifically that if God was going to introduce polygamy would He really do it in such a manner as this?
Scriptures describing polygamy:
Jacob 2:22-35
22 And now I make an end of speaking unto you concerning this pride. And were it not that I must speak unto you concerning a grosser crime, my heart would rejoice exceedingly because of you.

A) 23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
B) 25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
C) 26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women.
D) And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
E) 29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
E) 30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
D) 31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
C) 32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people,
B) which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction;
A) for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.
34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.
35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.
The statements "raise up seed unto me" and "otherwise they shall hearken unto these things" are not justifications for polygamy to be practiced at certain times. Jacob 2:23-35 has an antimetabole chiasmus structure. And the verse with "otherwise they shall hearken unto these things" is the center point. It is telling us to hearken unto the sermon being taught. And the sermon being taught is that polygamy is condemned by God and not to be practiced. God is telling us that polygamy is not how He raises up seed unto Him. But that the way God raises up seed unto Him is by commanding those who have offered Him a broken heart and contrite spirit. Those who keep this covenant by faithfully following the commandments they receive from God become His children:
Mosiah 5:7
7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.
Do the scriptures ever show God commanding a man to take a second wife? Jacob began the practice of polygamy while living in a wicked land where literal idol worship was practiced (Rachel hid her father's idols from him). Did God command him to work another seven years for Rachel or did he do it because he loved her? Men have been asked by their wives to take their handmaids, so maybe those wives received the commandment from the Lord but didn't tell anyone? Other examples found in the scriptures show it being practiced by wicked men.
Genesis 4:17-24
(For anyone reading this who is unaware, this is not the same Enoch and city of Enoch that was taken into heaven).
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
21 And his brother’s name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubal-cain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.
23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
Mosiah 11:1-10
1 And now it came to pass that Zeniff conferred the kingdom upon Noah, one of his sons; therefore Noah began to reign in his stead; and he did not walk in the ways of his father.
2 For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin, and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord. Yea, and they did commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness.
3 And he laid a tax of one fifth part of all they possessed, a fifth part of their gold and of their silver, and a fifth part of their ziff, and of their copper, and of their brass and their iron; and a fifth part of their fatlings; and also a fifth part of all their grain.
4 And all this did he take to support himself, and his wives and his concubines; and also his priests, and their wives and their concubines; thus he had changed the affairs of the kingdom.
5 For he put down all the priests that had been consecrated by his father, and consecrated new ones in their stead, such as were lifted up in the pride of their hearts.
6 Yea, and thus they were supported in their laziness, and in their idolatry, and in their whoredoms, by the taxes which king Noah had put upon his people; thus did the people labor exceedingly to support iniquity.
7 Yea, and they also became idolatrous, because they were deceived by the vain and flattering words of the king and priests; for they did speak flattering things unto them.
8 And it came to pass that king Noah built many elegant and spacious buildings; and he ornamented them with fine work of wood, and of all manner of precious things, of gold, and of silver, and of iron, and of brass, and of ziff, and of copper;
9 And he also built him a spacious palace, and a throne in the midst thereof, all of which was of fine wood and was ornamented with gold and silver and with precious things.
10 And he also caused that his workmen should work all manner of fine work within the walls of the temple, of fine wood, and of copper, and of brass.
Any church that currently accepts D&C 132 as anything more than a fulfillment of the prophecy that the new and everlasting covenant would be changed/broken is going against all of scripture. All the prophets from all times have described this covenant.

It doesn't matter if you interpret the verse in section 132 as having replaced or added a second new and everlasting covenant. By taking the focus of the people away from offering the Lord a broken heart and contrite spirit, it is causing them to believe all they need is a valid temple recommend and that they don't actually need to come unto Christ (by making and keeping the new and everlasting covenant) as outlined in the scriptures.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 5:39 am
by Reluctant Watchman
marc wrote: April 4th, 2022, 4:15 am Now that GC is over and most of us have said our piece, I'm going to quote Joseph Smith:

"I reproved him as Pharisaical and hypocritical; and not edifying the people; and shewed the Saints what Temperance, faith virtue, charity and truth were. I charged the Saints not to follow the example of the adversary in accusing the brethren, and said “if you do not accuse each other God will not accuse you. If you have no accuser you will enter heaven; and if you will follow the Revelations and instructions which God gives you through me, I will take you into heaven as my back load. If you will not accuse me, I will not accuse you. If you will throw a cloak of charity over my sins, I will over yours— for charity covereth a multitude of sins."

As I said earlier in this thread, I have compassion for our leaders. The fact that I am a sinner helps me to remember that I can have charity for our leaders and cover their sins with a cloak of charity. May God cover my sins with a cloak of charity, too. I know I need it!
So we just sweep the last two years under the rug? We need to also understand that true repentance is had through the recognition of wrongdoing. Sure, I can forgive any man, but is their heart truly repentant? These men continue to present false doctrine and a global crisis.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 6:36 am
by anonymous91
JohnnyL wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:00 pm
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 3:55 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 3:52 pm
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 3:48 pm
So a minor attracted person shouldn't be around children because they can't say no
But a same-sex attracted person can be around another missionary 24-7 because the opposing party can say no?

That's your rationale? Nothing about helping individuals to not be in bad circumstances?
No, because children are children and need our protection because they're children and they can't protect themselves. Because they're children.

I don't go out of my way to preemptively protect other adults. Because they're adults.
So you don't care about the 18 year old kid who gets stuck with an openly homosexual man. You don't care that the open homosexual will discuss the hot dudes he likes, you don't care that it's entirely possible that the openly homosexual man will think his companion is hot, you don't care that you are putting the open homosexual in a bad situation where he might sin?

You seem to think it's appropriate to take the person who tells you he is an alcoholic and put him into a bar!

That's what you are advocating.
A friend had a fellow missionary (SSA) reach down his pants during the night.
If I had been in that situation, that fellow missionary would have either been in a body bag, or in the ICU.
It's just a matter of time before this actually happens. If this hasn't already happened, and been quietly covered up.

There is a reason missionaries aren't paired up with the opposite sex, that is to avoid temptation and what it can lead to. Anyone who is being honest will say that it would only be a matter of time before they give in to their temptation. I don't care how righteous a man or woman is if you put the two of them together as "two missionary companions", and either of them is attracted at all to the other, it will be only a matter of time before lines are crossed. That's why missionaries' companions are of the same sex (Couple missionaries, obviously being the exception).

That is the same reason it would be foolish to put someone struggling with SSA with a straight man. If the one struggling with SSA is at all attracted to his/her companion, it's only a matter of time before something is going to happen.

You don't have to look any further than the military to find out how bad of an idea this is. Currently, there is a 1 in 4 chance of being raped if you are in the military. The chances of being raped have significantly increased ever since the don't ask, don't tell policy. Do you know what else has skyrocketed, along with rape? Suicide has exponentially increased too. Do you want to take a guess at the biggest factor driving it? It's men that have been raped or sexually molested by the same sex. Statistically, men would rather commit suicide than admit that they were raped.

My sons have little to no desire to serve missions, do you want to know why?

First, they refuse to take the vaccine that is being pushed onto these missionaries.
Secondly, they do not want a companion that is struggling with SSA. I can't blame them at all, I wouldn't put up with it either.
Third, they have a lot of questions and concerns about the church that doesn't make sense. Many of these questions are the same ones we discuss here on LDSFF.

Do you know the biggest reason they were even considering it?

Sadly, it seems that many of the women their age in the church refuse to date young men that aren't return missionaries.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 6:48 am
by anonymous91
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:37 pm
Serragon wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:30 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:06 pm
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 4:58 pm
Lust is ungodly desire. Lust is desiring that which God tells us not to desire (it is not sexual in nature).

You claim that when someone come out publicly that they are only saying they are tempted. This is not the case.
No one comes out and then says I am tempted by this and I do not want to be tempted by this.

Every single person who comes out publicly proclaims "this is who I am, I am PROUD!!! to be this way".

You are selling me something that doesn't exist. You are selling me the idea that publicly coming out is only about temptation and it's not. You know this is the truth because you would not allow someone who comes out as MAP to be around children. Obviously it's not "just a temptation" when someone "comes out".
Of course there are openly gay LDS people who know it's wrong. https://www.calledtoshare.com/2021/08/0 ... us-christ/

You need to get out more.
These men aren't "gay". They have a sexual fetish that they have elevated to an identity, and want to be treated as some special type of human because of it.

This elevation of the fetish to an identity is part of nurturing the sin. Do we now need to come up with a different name for every temptation of the natural man so that people can elevate it to their identity? Clearly, we should confess this weakness to the Lord, but the only benefit to confessing to anyone else is if we want their help in overcoming that temptation.

Be elevating this temptation to an identity, you have normalized the temptation and removed the need to overcome it. You deny the fact that Christ can make this a strength for you and that you can no longer be tempted by it. You essentially are creating a group of people who get to pose as heroes and victims for having to be born a certain with with no ability to act on it by an unjust God.

This means people say things like "that poor gay man" and have sympathy and empathy for his plight where they would never say "that poor womanizer" or "that poor wife beater". The homosexual is now a victim of how God made him instead of a regular human being who has to overcome whatever weakness or vice plagues them. If the homosexual gives in, it is expected and understandable.. maybe even celebrated. Not so with the others.

This also leads people to plead with the Lord to change His stance. Since they are looked at as victims of how God made them, it is unjust for God to require them to remain celibate. It is only God that stands in the way of the happiness of these people. And it is through this belief that eventually the church will have to accept this practice.

So you see that elevating this particular sexual fetish to an identity is sin. It is nurturing the perversion. It is changes it from sinful desire that must be overcome to a condition that must be endured and hopefully legalized.
If you're asking "is this a wise way to deal with their temptation," the answer is obviously no. The question presented was whether someone who does is sinful. It isn't. Someone who, even unwisely, identifies their sin does not hope it's legalized. People who consider themselves alcoholics don't do it as a political statement to try to end prohibition. They do it with the idea that they are being honest about their temptations.
Nice way to twist truths.

There is a huge difference between a man that gets up in an AA meeting and says "I'm an Alcoholic", vs. someone that gets up in church and says I'm Gay and I'm proud God made me this way. If you can't see the difference, you don't know God.

I'm not even going to entertain you by trying to explain the difference, it would be a complete waste of time. I'll leave this verse for you to ponder though:

Matthew 15:14
"14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch"

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 6:53 am
by Niemand
anonymous91 wrote: April 4th, 2022, 6:48 am
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:37 pm
Serragon wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:30 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:06 pm

Of course there are openly gay LDS people who know it's wrong. https://www.calledtoshare.com/2021/08/0 ... us-christ/

You need to get out more.
These men aren't "gay". They have a sexual fetish that they have elevated to an identity, and want to be treated as some special type of human because of it.

This elevation of the fetish to an identity is part of nurturing the sin. Do we now need to come up with a different name for every temptation of the natural man so that people can elevate it to their identity? Clearly, we should confess this weakness to the Lord, but the only benefit to confessing to anyone else is if we want their help in overcoming that temptation.

Be elevating this temptation to an identity, you have normalized the temptation and removed the need to overcome it. You deny the fact that Christ can make this a strength for you and that you can no longer be tempted by it. You essentially are creating a group of people who get to pose as heroes and victims for having to be born a certain with with no ability to act on it by an unjust God.

This means people say things like "that poor gay man" and have sympathy and empathy for his plight where they would never say "that poor womanizer" or "that poor wife beater". The homosexual is now a victim of how God made him instead of a regular human being who has to overcome whatever weakness or vice plagues them. If the homosexual gives in, it is expected and understandable.. maybe even celebrated. Not so with the others.

This also leads people to plead with the Lord to change His stance. Since they are looked at as victims of how God made them, it is unjust for God to require them to remain celibate. It is only God that stands in the way of the happiness of these people. And it is through this belief that eventually the church will have to accept this practice.

So you see that elevating this particular sexual fetish to an identity is sin. It is nurturing the perversion. It is changes it from sinful desire that must be overcome to a condition that must be endured and hopefully legalized.
If you're asking "is this a wise way to deal with their temptation," the answer is obviously no. The question presented was whether someone who does is sinful. It isn't. Someone who, even unwisely, identifies their sin does not hope it's legalized. People who consider themselves alcoholics don't do it as a political statement to try to end prohibition. They do it with the idea that they are being honest about their temptations.
Nice way to twist truths.

There is a huge difference between a man that gets up in an AA meeting and says "I'm an Alcoholic", vs. someone that gets up in church and says I'm Gay and I'm proud God made me this way. If you can't see the difference, you don't know God.

I'm not even going to entertain you by trying to explain the difference, it would be a complete waste of time. I'll leave this verse for you to ponder though:

Matthew 15:14
"14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch"
Or kleptomania. I know someone whose ex couldn't go to parties, because she would always steal something. You had to nail things down around her. It was a compulsion with her. She's since died, but she knew she had a problem and took it to a shrink.

I think kleptomania is more relatable. I think everyone here has been tempted to steal at some point, and maybe even done so, but this is an extreme version of it.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 7:23 am
by LDS Watchman
Niemand wrote: April 4th, 2022, 3:35 am
Nah, pal, you don't "see" anything. You don't know the definition of "paranoid". You, or someone who has exactly your style, have been posting under multiple accounts on here. I'm not the only one to pick up on this and nowhere near the first.
Artaxerxes and I don't have the same writing style and we literally post on different threads at the exact same time. It's impossible for us to be the same person.
Niemand wrote: April 4th, 2022, 3:35 am The current Apostles do not go out and preach to the non-LDS world, except at the most minimal level. Most non-members outside the Mormon corridor have never heard of them.
Again, please read the scriptures I shared. God expects them to send his word to the world, which is precisely what they do.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 7:37 am
by Artaxerxes
anonymous91 wrote: April 4th, 2022, 6:48 am
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:37 pm
Serragon wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:30 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:06 pm

Of course there are openly gay LDS people who know it's wrong. https://www.calledtoshare.com/2021/08/0 ... us-christ/

You need to get out more.
These men aren't "gay". They have a sexual fetish that they have elevated to an identity, and want to be treated as some special type of human because of it.

This elevation of the fetish to an identity is part of nurturing the sin. Do we now need to come up with a different name for every temptation of the natural man so that people can elevate it to their identity? Clearly, we should confess this weakness to the Lord, but the only benefit to confessing to anyone else is if we want their help in overcoming that temptation.

Be elevating this temptation to an identity, you have normalized the temptation and removed the need to overcome it. You deny the fact that Christ can make this a strength for you and that you can no longer be tempted by it. You essentially are creating a group of people who get to pose as heroes and victims for having to be born a certain with with no ability to act on it by an unjust God.

This means people say things like "that poor gay man" and have sympathy and empathy for his plight where they would never say "that poor womanizer" or "that poor wife beater". The homosexual is now a victim of how God made him instead of a regular human being who has to overcome whatever weakness or vice plagues them. If the homosexual gives in, it is expected and understandable.. maybe even celebrated. Not so with the others.

This also leads people to plead with the Lord to change His stance. Since they are looked at as victims of how God made them, it is unjust for God to require them to remain celibate. It is only God that stands in the way of the happiness of these people. And it is through this belief that eventually the church will have to accept this practice.

So you see that elevating this particular sexual fetish to an identity is sin. It is nurturing the perversion. It is changes it from sinful desire that must be overcome to a condition that must be endured and hopefully legalized.
If you're asking "is this a wise way to deal with their temptation," the answer is obviously no. The question presented was whether someone who does is sinful. It isn't. Someone who, even unwisely, identifies their sin does not hope it's legalized. People who consider themselves alcoholics don't do it as a political statement to try to end prohibition. They do it with the idea that they are being honest about their temptations.
Nice way to twist truths.

There is a huge difference between a man that gets up in an AA meeting and says "I'm an Alcoholic", vs. someone that gets up in church and says I'm Gay and I'm proud God made me this way. If you can't see the difference, you don't know God.

I'm not even going to entertain you by trying to explain the difference, it would be a complete waste of time. I'll leave this verse for you to ponder though:

Matthew 15:14
"14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch"
Of course those are different things. But those were not the two options presented.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 9:05 am
by InfoWarrior82
anonymous91 wrote: April 4th, 2022, 6:36 am
JohnnyL wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:00 pm
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 3:55 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 3:52 pm

No, because children are children and need our protection because they're children and they can't protect themselves. Because they're children.

I don't go out of my way to preemptively protect other adults. Because they're adults.
So you don't care about the 18 year old kid who gets stuck with an openly homosexual man. You don't care that the open homosexual will discuss the hot dudes he likes, you don't care that it's entirely possible that the openly homosexual man will think his companion is hot, you don't care that you are putting the open homosexual in a bad situation where he might sin?

You seem to think it's appropriate to take the person who tells you he is an alcoholic and put him into a bar!

That's what you are advocating.
A friend had a fellow missionary (SSA) reach down his pants during the night.
If I had been in that situation, that fellow missionary would have either been in a body bag, or in the ICU.
It's just a matter of time before this actually happens. If this hasn't already happened, and been quietly covered up.

There is a reason missionaries aren't paired up with the opposite sex, that is to avoid temptation and what it can lead to. Anyone who is being honest will say that it would only be a matter of time before they give in to their temptation. I don't care how righteous a man or woman is if you put the two of them together as "two missionary companions", and either of them is attracted at all to the other, it will be only a matter of time before lines are crossed. That's why missionaries' companions are of the same sex (Couple missionaries, obviously being the exception).

That is the same reason it would be foolish to put someone struggling with SSA with a straight man. If the one struggling with SSA is at all attracted to his/her companion, it's only a matter of time before something is going to happen.

You don't have to look any further than the military to find out how bad of an idea this is. Currently, there is a 1 in 4 chance of being raped if you are in the military. The chances of being raped have significantly increased ever since the don't ask, don't tell policy. Do you know what else has skyrocketed, along with rape? Suicide has exponentially increased too. Do you want to take a guess at the biggest factor driving it? It's men that have been raped or sexually molested by the same sex. Statistically, men would rather commit suicide than admit that they were raped.

My sons have little to no desire to serve missions, do you want to know why?

First, they refuse to take the vaccine that is being pushed onto these missionaries.
Secondly, they do not want a companion that is struggling with SSA. I can't blame them at all, I wouldn't put up with it either.
Third, they have a lot of questions and concerns about the church that doesn't make sense. Many of these questions are the same ones we discuss here on LDSFF.

Do you know the biggest reason they were even considering it?

Sadly, it seems that many of the women their age in the church refuse to date young men that aren't return missionaries.


I had a gay companion. Not openly gay, but just extremely flamboyant and stereotypically homosexual. Everyone knew, but didn't say anything. He didn't like the fact that I wasn't into his drama and theatrics. He's now an exmo.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 11:28 am
by JohnnyL
anonymous91 wrote: April 4th, 2022, 6:36 am
JohnnyL wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:00 pm ...
A friend had a fellow missionary (SSA) reach down his pants during the night.
If I had been in that situation, that fellow missionary would have either been in a body bag, or in the ICU.
It's just a matter of time before this actually happens. If this hasn't already happened, and been quietly covered up.

There is a reason missionaries aren't paired up with the opposite sex, that is to avoid temptation and what it can lead to. Anyone who is being honest will say that it would only be a matter of time before they give in to their temptation. I don't care how righteous a man or woman is if you put the two of them together as "two missionary companions", and either of them is attracted at all to the other, it will be only a matter of time before lines are crossed. That's why missionaries' companions are of the same sex (Couple missionaries, obviously being the exception).

That is the same reason it would be foolish to put someone struggling with SSA with a straight man. If the one struggling with SSA is at all attracted to his/her companion, it's only a matter of time before something is going to happen.

You don't have to look any further than the military to find out how bad of an idea this is. Currently, there is a 1 in 4 chance of being raped if you are in the military. The chances of being raped have significantly increased ever since the don't ask, don't tell policy. Do you know what else has skyrocketed, along with rape? Suicide has exponentially increased too. Do you want to take a guess at the biggest factor driving it? It's men that have been raped or sexually molested by the same sex. Statistically, men would rather commit suicide than admit that they were raped.

My sons have little to no desire to serve missions, do you want to know why?

First, they refuse to take the vaccine that is being pushed onto these missionaries.
Secondly, they do not want a companion that is struggling with SSA. I can't blame them at all, I wouldn't put up with it either.
Third, they have a lot of questions and concerns about the church that doesn't make sense. Many of these questions are the same ones we discuss here on LDSFF.

Do you know the biggest reason they were even considering it?

Sadly, it seems that many of the women their age in the church refuse to date young men that aren't return missionaries.
Interesting; that military part would be new knowledge for me.

We taught a few homosexuals on my mission, including a recent RM who was lost/ gone.
I knew of a few SSA on my mission, but they weren't the rape kind; at least one didn't realize the possibility of it until after his mission. I just learned to never changed in front of others, lol.

Regarding your sons: I would write to the Church leaders and to the Missionary Department and let them know your concerns about openly SSA "and proud of it" missionaries. Include examples of FB missionaries doing that, experiences, etc.

The vaccine is not needed.
"Third, they have a lot of questions and concerns about the church that doesn't make sense. Many of these questions are the same ones we discuss here on LDSFF. " Well, what to do about that as a father?

My daughter is on a mission right now, and generally enjoying it. (No vaccine.) It's hard enough for the youth these days; it was hard enough back then, lol. (I didn't have a lot of success in numbers, though I know two converts are still active, married in the temple, and each has children). But I didn't go to baptize people, so I don't have problems with that.) My daughter says she believes that if she hadn't gone, she would be at school and not attending church anymore. I have seen so many youth go that route--testimonies and faith and brought up in the right ways, and then get lost during college (often the first year), stop going to church, marry a non-member, and of the ones I know, only one has come back (an RM girl pulled him back in). No baptisms (so far?), but a good influence on lots of people, including letters from members greatly thanking us for her and her influence on their family and children, one of whom now wants to go on a mission. And she is learning much more about the gospel, about being a missionary, about planning, getting along with companions, others, elders, senior couples, etc. She understands faith, work, patience, and testimony better.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 12:00 pm
by Light Seeker
Serragon wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:30 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 5:06 pm
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 4:58 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 4:53 pm

Lust is a choice. Temptation is not. So you really believe that Satan tempting someone qualifies as a sin? So is Jesus a sinner because Satan tempted him?
Lust is ungodly desire. Lust is desiring that which God tells us not to desire (it is not sexual in nature).

You claim that when someone come out publicly that they are only saying they are tempted. This is not the case.
No one comes out and then says I am tempted by this and I do not want to be tempted by this.

Every single person who comes out publicly proclaims "this is who I am, I am PROUD!!! to be this way".

You are selling me something that doesn't exist. You are selling me the idea that publicly coming out is only about temptation and it's not. You know this is the truth because you would not allow someone who comes out as MAP to be around children. Obviously it's not "just a temptation" when someone "comes out".
Of course there are openly gay LDS people who know it's wrong. https://www.calledtoshare.com/2021/08/0 ... us-christ/

You need to get out more.
These men aren't "gay". They have a sexual fetish that they have elevated to an identity, and want to be treated as some special type of human because of it.

This elevation of the fetish to an identity is part of nurturing the sin. Do we now need to come up with a different name for every temptation of the natural man so that people can elevate it to their identity? Clearly, we should confess this weakness to the Lord, but the only benefit to confessing to anyone else is if we want their help in overcoming that temptation.

Be elevating this temptation to an identity, you have normalized the temptation and removed the need to overcome it. You deny the fact that Christ can make this a strength for you and that you can no longer be tempted by it. You essentially are creating a group of people who get to pose as heroes and victims for having to be born a certain with with no ability to act on it by an unjust God.

This means people say things like "that poor gay man" and have sympathy and empathy for his plight where they would never say "that poor womanizer" or "that poor wife beater". The homosexual is now a victim of how God made him instead of a regular human being who has to overcome whatever weakness or vice plagues them. If the homosexual gives in, it is expected and understandable.. maybe even celebrated. Not so with the others.

This also leads people to plead with the Lord to change His stance. Since they are looked at as victims of how God made them, it is unjust for God to require them to remain celibate. It is only God that stands in the way of the happiness of these people. And it is through this belief that eventually the church will have to accept this practice.

So you see that elevating this particular sexual fetish to an identity is sin. It is nurturing the perversion. It is changes it from sinful desire that must be overcome to a condition that must be endured and hopefully legalized.

That was incredibly well stated .

Thank you for that .

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 12:16 pm
by Refraction75
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:39 pm
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:37 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:36 pm
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:34 pm
Hypocrites.

Yesterday Anderson promotes an Arizona Bill that would ban parents from seeking professional therapy for gender confused or same-sex confused children to be normal.

Today Oaks says this message.

What a bunch of weasels hypocrites.
Hate the sin, love the sinner. It's not hard.
So you think it's appropriate for a 18 year old young man to be paired with another 18 year old young man who openly proclaims he has sexual/romantic desire for the same-sex?
I'm not a fan of that situation, but I'd live with it. I've worked closely with women and I've somehow come out of it without sinning, as hard as it is to believe.
So you were sexually attracted to them and might have had some thoughts that went to far down the road? But you fortunately were able to control the natural man urges?

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 12:21 pm
by Artaxerxes
Refraction75 wrote: April 4th, 2022, 12:16 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:39 pm
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:37 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:36 pm

Hate the sin, love the sinner. It's not hard.
So you think it's appropriate for a 18 year old young man to be paired with another 18 year old young man who openly proclaims he has sexual/romantic desire for the same-sex?
I'm not a fan of that situation, but I'd live with it. I've worked closely with women and I've somehow come out of it without sinning, as hard as it is to believe.
So you were sexually attracted to them and might have had some thoughts that went to far down the road? But you fortunately were able to control the natural man urges?
No. I'm saying that straight people work together all the time and don't even have thoughts that go far down that road. Straight people don't lust after everyone of the opposite gender all the time. I don't know why we don't expect the same thing from SSA folk.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 12:24 pm
by Refraction75
Artaxerxes wrote: April 4th, 2022, 12:21 pm
Refraction75 wrote: April 4th, 2022, 12:16 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:39 pm
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:37 pm
So you think it's appropriate for a 18 year old young man to be paired with another 18 year old young man who openly proclaims he has sexual/romantic desire for the same-sex?
I'm not a fan of that situation, but I'd live with it. I've worked closely with women and I've somehow come out of it without sinning, as hard as it is to believe.
So you were sexually attracted to them and might have had some thoughts that went to far down the road? But you fortunately were able to control the natural man urges?
No. I'm saying that straight people work together all the time and don't even have thoughts that go far down that road. Straight people don't lust after everyone of the opposite gender all the time. I don't know why we don't expect the same thing from SSA folk.
You have not been around these LGBTQ folks enough apparently.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 12:32 pm
by Artaxerxes
Refraction75 wrote: April 4th, 2022, 12:24 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 4th, 2022, 12:21 pm
Refraction75 wrote: April 4th, 2022, 12:16 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:39 pm

I'm not a fan of that situation, but I'd live with it. I've worked closely with women and I've somehow come out of it without sinning, as hard as it is to believe.
So you were sexually attracted to them and might have had some thoughts that went to far down the road? But you fortunately were able to control the natural man urges?
No. I'm saying that straight people work together all the time and don't even have thoughts that go far down that road. Straight people don't lust after everyone of the opposite gender all the time. I don't know why we don't expect the same thing from SSA folk.
You have not been around these LGBTQ folks enough apparently.
I've known many. I've worked fairly closely with one for several years now. Not everyone with SSA is some uncontrollable monster.

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 12:40 pm
by spiritMan
Artaxerxes wrote: April 4th, 2022, 12:21 pm
Refraction75 wrote: April 4th, 2022, 12:16 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:39 pm
spiritMan wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:37 pm
So you think it's appropriate for a 18 year old young man to be paired with another 18 year old young man who openly proclaims he has sexual/romantic desire for the same-sex?
I'm not a fan of that situation, but I'd live with it. I've worked closely with women and I've somehow come out of it without sinning, as hard as it is to believe.
So you were sexually attracted to them and might have had some thoughts that went to far down the road? But you fortunately were able to control the natural man urges?
No. I'm saying that straight people work together all the time and don't even have thoughts that go far down that road. Straight people don't lust after everyone of the opposite gender all the time. I don't know why we don't expect the same thing from SSA folk.
Are you a mind-reader?

How do you know this unless someone tells you this?

Re: General Conference April 2022 - Rumors / and live thread

Posted: April 4th, 2022, 12:41 pm
by Artaxerxes
spiritMan wrote: April 4th, 2022, 12:40 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 4th, 2022, 12:21 pm
Refraction75 wrote: April 4th, 2022, 12:16 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: April 3rd, 2022, 2:39 pm

I'm not a fan of that situation, but I'd live with it. I've worked closely with women and I've somehow come out of it without sinning, as hard as it is to believe.
So you were sexually attracted to them and might have had some thoughts that went to far down the road? But you fortunately were able to control the natural man urges?
No. I'm saying that straight people work together all the time and don't even have thoughts that go far down that road. Straight people don't lust after everyone of the opposite gender all the time. I don't know why we don't expect the same thing from SSA folk.
Are you a mind-reader?

How do you know this unless someone tells you this?
I think you should reread my post.