LDS Freedom Forum

JK4Woods wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 2:52 pm Very little testimony of the Book of Mormon…

Only a brief mention of a 14 year old boy…

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:40 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:39 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:43 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:41 pm
I do not self-identify with my temptations. That is the big difference.

We have associates others, and others have associated themselves, with their sins for a long time. People are called alcoholics, adulterers, etc. I agree that people shouldn't think of themselves that way. But, again, that does not meet the Lord's definition of a sin.

it does meet his definition in the fact that Jesus called people who were committing adultery . . adulterers . . even so murderers, liars, covetous, blasphemers, hypocrites . . .he didn't say . . . I hate the sin but no tthe sinner . . no he didn't cuz that idea is from man . . . he identified them by their sin . . . after they repent then they are no longer identified that way. . .and the sinners of today like to name themselves and identify according to their sin . . .strange isn' that

He called people who committed adultery adulterers. He didn't call people who were tempted to commit adultery adulterers.

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:41 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:37 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:35 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:31 pm

They are saying they're tempted. If you had other questions of them you can just ask them.

So if I "come out" and say that I am a MAP, all I'm really doing is telling you that I'm "tempted". So I'm only tempted, why is it not acceptable to be a primary teacher? As long as there are always non-MAPs around, what is the harm?

In other words, you do not actually believe them. When a person "comes out" you believe they aren't actually desiring it themselves that they think it's okay, you twist it in your head that they really, really don't want this.

Because we, as a society, take prophylactic steps to protect children that we don't for adults.

So it would be appropriate for me to get up at the pulpit and tell the ward each and every woman that is "tempting" to me? I should "come out" about it?

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:42 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:40 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:39 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:43 pm

We have associates others, and others have associated themselves, with their sins for a long time. People are called alcoholics, adulterers, etc. I agree that people shouldn't think of themselves that way. But, again, that does not meet the Lord's definition of a sin.

it does meet his definition in the fact that Jesus called people who were committing adultery . . adulterers . . even so murderers, liars, covetous, blasphemers, hypocrites . . .he didn't say . . . I hate the sin but no tthe sinner . . no he didn't cuz that idea is from man . . . he identified them by their sin . . . after they repent then they are no longer identified that way. . .and the sinners of today like to name themselves and identify according to their sin . . .strange isn' that

He called people who committed adultery adulterers. He didn't call people who were tempted to commit adultery adulterers.

"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

So according to you, it's appropriate for a man to get up to the pulpit and tell the world about each and every woman that he was "tempted" by?

It is recognizing and admitting a problem isn't it?

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 2:39 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 2:37 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 2:36 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 2:34 pm
Hypocrites.

Yesterday Anderson promotes an Arizona Bill that would ban parents from seeking professional therapy for gender confused or same-sex confused children to be normal.

Today Oaks says this message.

What a bunch of weasels hypocrites.

Hate the sin, love the sinner. It's not hard.

So you think it's appropriate for a 18 year old young man to be paired with another 18 year old young man who openly proclaims he has sexual/romantic desire for the same-sex?

I'm not a fan of that situation, but I'd live with it. I've worked closely with women and I've somehow come out of it without sinning, as hard as it is to believe.

JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:45 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 2:39 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 2:37 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 2:36 pm

Hate the sin, love the sinner. It's not hard.

So you think it's appropriate for a 18 year old young man to be paired with another 18 year old young man who openly proclaims he has sexual/romantic desire for the same-sex?

I'm not a fan of that situation, but I'd live with it. I've worked closely with women and I've somehow come out of it without sinning, as hard as it is to believe.

I would make that an automatic service mission; why not?

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:39 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:43 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:41 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:31 pm

Of course it's not a sin! If someone admits to being tempted to steal, or commit adultery, or literally any sin, but not doing it, that is not a sin. It's incredibly simple. If Satan tempts you to murder someone, does that make you a murderer? We all know it would be wrong to murder. Does the fact that Satan tempted you make you bad?

I do not self-identify with my temptations. That is the big difference.

We have associates others, and others have associated themselves, with their sins for a long time. People are called alcoholics, adulterers, etc. I agree that people shouldn't think of themselves that way. But, again, that does not meet the Lord's definition of a sin.

it does meet his definition in the fact that Jesus called people who were committing adultery . . adulterers . . even so murderers, liars, covetous, blasphemers, hypocrites . . .he didn't say . . . I hate the sin but no tthe sinner . . no he didn't cuz that idea is from man . . . he identified them by their sin . . . after they repent then they are no longer identified that way. . .and the sinners of today like to name themselves and identify according to their sin . . .strange isn' that

Subcomandante wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:38 pm

Sirius wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 8:37 am

Subcomandante wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 10:58 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 8:02 pm

this is the first time I have heard you sound woke . . .how can you judge woke when you are it . . . . your comment about not being honest regarding LGBTQ, . . but following social pressure to not mention it is woke . . . you are woke . . . the large and spacious building mocking Kimball and Benson . . I'm feeling it . . .

btw . . .our brothers and sisters cannot obtain progress when they do not live the laws of Christ and his gospel . . but what do we care . . we all have a chance to get to the CK . . . less people to share it with . . .hmmmmmm . . .maybe I'm liking the trend of this gospel after all . . . I can get along with the whole program if I just lower my standards . . .

It's not lowering standards, it's not having anything to do with "caving" to the woke agenda.

If the Church were to proclaim tomorrow that starting the next month they would allow homosexual couples to get married in the temple, THAT would be caving to the woke agenda.

No such thing has been done. Nor will it. As evidenced by Renlund's words in General Conference today, and Renlund is probably one of the more liberal Apostles out there.

The only thing is that Renlund did not say "homosexuality is a sin." He simply said that those that insist on living in sin will not get back to God in the way that they desire; that the way back is by following God and His covenants. We can't pretend to be somebody we are not. If we need to make changes to our lives, we need to do so.

To an outsider or even a casual insider in the faith, not a single word of that was offensive. But if you insist on following the Kimball/Benson approach re homosexuality, the Church would NOT be able to fulfill its mission; its leaders would not be allowed into different countries for fomenting hate speech, and the Church's social media accounts would be closed. Perhaps financial accounts would become negatively affected too, depending on the country. So the Church treads lightly. It is up to us, the members of the Church, to gain personal revelation; we can't be spoon-fed stuff by the prophets always.

Some audible teachings have to be sacrificed from time to time in order to advance the Church's mission. That is a reality in today's world. I wish it weren't, but it is.

I get what you're saying. But if we look at the patterns all throughout the scriptures, what you're describing isn't the pattern of the Lord or his true disciples. They lived the truth boldly always, no excuses or justifications. Disregarding their own well being or the church's. What you're describing is just what the leaders already did once with the manifestos. Using their own counsel instead of the Lord's. Hoping to appease the world/gov. We made a covenant with death and joined the world at that time, just as Isaiah said we would. We now refer to a manifesto as a revelation to cover falsehoods and men trying to, "beat the devil at his own game". Whether the leaders speak truth boldly or not, does not change our responsibility as individuals to seek out truth and live it boldly, despite what may happen to the church or ourselves.

As you and the others have seen by now, my comment did NOT age well. #eatingHumblePie

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:43 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:42 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:40 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:39 pm

it does meet his definition in the fact that Jesus called people who were committing adultery . . adulterers . . even so murderers, liars, covetous, blasphemers, hypocrites . . .he didn't say . . . I hate the sin but no tthe sinner . . no he didn't cuz that idea is from man . . . he identified them by their sin . . . after they repent then they are no longer identified that way. . .and the sinners of today like to name themselves and identify according to their sin . . .strange isn' that

He called people who committed adultery adulterers. He didn't call people who were tempted to commit adultery adulterers.

"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

So according to you, it's appropriate for a man to get up to the pulpit and tell the world about each and every woman that he was "tempted" by?

It is recognizing and admitting a problem isn't it?

That's not how I would address it, but you can I guess

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:49 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:43 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:42 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:40 pm

He called people who committed adultery adulterers. He didn't call people who were tempted to commit adultery adulterers.

"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

So according to you, it's appropriate for a man to get up to the pulpit and tell the world about each and every woman that he was "tempted" by?

It is recognizing and admitting a problem isn't it?

That's not how I would address it, but you can I guess

Okay, so it would be appropriate for a man to get up to the pulpit and proclaim he is minor sex attracted?
So according to you, anyone can get up to the pulpit tell everyone who they are sexually attracted to pass it off as a "temptation" and they are totally good to go in God's eyes?

So let's say I got up at the pulpit and now named your wife (I assume you have one) as someone who I am sexually attracted to but don't worry "I don't act on it" and I will never, ever, ever do anything; I'm just "tempted".

totally cool?

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:43 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:42 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:40 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:39 pm

it does meet his definition in the fact that Jesus called people who were committing adultery . . adulterers . . even so murderers, liars, covetous, blasphemers, hypocrites . . .he didn't say . . . I hate the sin but no tthe sinner . . no he didn't cuz that idea is from man . . . he identified them by their sin . . . after they repent then they are no longer identified that way. . .and the sinners of today like to name themselves and identify according to their sin . . .strange isn' that

He called people who committed adultery adulterers. He didn't call people who were tempted to commit adultery adulterers.

"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

So according to you, it's appropriate for a man to get up to the pulpit and tell the world about each and every woman that he was "tempted" by?

It is recognizing and admitting a problem isn't it?

That's not how I would address it, but you can I guess

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:49 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:43 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:42 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:40 pm

He called people who committed adultery adulterers. He didn't call people who were tempted to commit adultery adulterers.

"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

So according to you, it's appropriate for a man to get up to the pulpit and tell the world about each and every woman that he was "tempted" by?

It is recognizing and admitting a problem isn't it?

That's not how I would address it, but you can I guess

Okay, so it would be appropriate for a man to get up to the pulpit and proclaim he is minor sex attracted?
So according to you, anyone can get up to the pulpit tell everyone who they are sexually attracted to pass it off as a "temptation" and they are totally good to go in God's eyes?

So let's say I got up at the pulpit and now named your wife (I assume you have one) as someone who I am sexually attracted to but don't worry "I don't act on it" and I will never, ever, ever do anything; I'm just "tempted".

totally cool?

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:51 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:43 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:42 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:40 pm

He called people who committed adultery adulterers. He didn't call people who were tempted to commit adultery adulterers.

"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

So according to you, it's appropriate for a man to get up to the pulpit and tell the world about each and every woman that he was "tempted" by?

It is recognizing and admitting a problem isn't it?

That's not how I would address it, but you can I guess

yea, he called those temptations . . lust . . .sin to lust after a woman . . do you actually have the same scriptures as I do ? or do you just like to bait? you know what I am about to post so go do some research . . read the scriptures for yourself . . .find out about trends in the world on your own . . you have to contribute here except bait

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:52 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:49 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:43 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:42 pm
"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

So according to you, it's appropriate for a man to get up to the pulpit and tell the world about each and every woman that he was "tempted" by?

It is recognizing and admitting a problem isn't it?

That's not how I would address it, but you can I guess

Okay, so it would be appropriate for a man to get up to the pulpit and proclaim he is minor sex attracted?
So according to you, anyone can get up to the pulpit tell everyone who they are sexually attracted to pass it off as a "temptation" and they are totally good to go in God's eyes?

So let's say I got up at the pulpit and now named your wife (I assume you have one) as someone who I am sexually attracted to but don't worry "I don't act on it" and I will never, ever, ever do anything; I'm just "tempted".

totally cool?

Fundamentalist reply:

“Which wife?”

buffalo_girl wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:32 pm

Atticus wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 1:14 pm

buffalo_girl wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 11:16 am
At the time, Gospel Doctrine was being taught alternative Sunday’s by myself & a man recently moved here from another state. He was very well versed in scripture & doctrine, but could be condescending to those he felt below his personal grasp of the doctrine. I guess there may have been complaints.

I have to wonder if to spare his feelings we were both released. He was called to an administrative position with a high profile. I have not received a calling since, nearly six years.

Any theories on why the other GD teacher was given another calling right away and you have been without one for the past 6 years?

I don’t. Many Ward members have told me - even now - they miss my classes. Members visiting from areas outside the Intermountain LDS corridor also thanked me for teaching meaningful insights into scripture when I was a teacher.

I was always very careful to support principles of the Gospel directly from scripture. Sadly, I’ve come to believe that many members fail to read, study & understand scripture beyond the ‘standard’ interpretations passed along over the years through our rote official curriculum.

My religion classes at BYU were frustrating in how rigidly they held to the their own ‘official curriculum’. Study assignments had more to do with volume & memorization than with enlightenment & inspired personal goal setting. I had to find personal time outside all the other class assignments to study scripture.

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:53 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:51 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:43 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:42 pm
"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

So according to you, it's appropriate for a man to get up to the pulpit and tell the world about each and every woman that he was "tempted" by?

It is recognizing and admitting a problem isn't it?

That's not how I would address it, but you can I guess

yea, he called those temptations . . lust . . .sin to lust after a woman . . do you actually have the same scriptures as I do ? or do you just like to bait? you know what I am about to post so go do some research . . read the scriptures for yourself . . .find out about trends in the world on your own . . you have to contribute here except bait

Lust is a choice. Temptation is not. So you really believe that Satan tempting someone qualifies as a sin? So is Jesus a sinner because Satan tempted him?

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:55 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:52 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:48 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:46 pm

I think that adults are different than children. I'm not sure why these things are hard to understand.

So a minor attracted person shouldn't be around children because they can't say no
But a same-sex attracted person can be around another missionary 24-7 because the opposing party can say no?

That's your rationale? Nothing about helping individuals to not be in bad circumstances?

No, because children are children and need our protection because they're children and they can't protect themselves. Because they're children.

I don't go out of my way to preemptively protect other adults. Because they're adults.

So you don't care about the 18 year old kid who gets stuck with an openly homosexual man. You don't care that the open homosexual will discuss the hot dudes he likes, you don't care that it's entirely possible that the openly homosexual man will think his companion is hot, you don't care that you are putting the open homosexual in a bad situation where he might sin?

You seem to think it's appropriate to take the person who tells you he is an alcoholic and put him into a bar!

That's what you are advocating.

JohnnyL wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 5:00 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:55 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:52 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 3:48 pm
So a minor attracted person shouldn't be around children because they can't say no
But a same-sex attracted person can be around another missionary 24-7 because the opposing party can say no?

That's your rationale? Nothing about helping individuals to not be in bad circumstances?

No, because children are children and need our protection because they're children and they can't protect themselves. Because they're children.

I don't go out of my way to preemptively protect other adults. Because they're adults.

So you don't care about the 18 year old kid who gets stuck with an openly homosexual man. You don't care that the open homosexual will discuss the hot dudes he likes, you don't care that it's entirely possible that the openly homosexual man will think his companion is hot, you don't care that you are putting the open homosexual in a bad situation where he might sin?

You seem to think it's appropriate to take the person who tells you he is an alcoholic and put him into a bar!

That's what you are advocating.

A friend had a fellow missionary (SSA) reach down his pants during the night.

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:58 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:53 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:51 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:43 pm

That's not how I would address it, but you can I guess

yea, he called those temptations . . lust . . .sin to lust after a woman . . do you actually have the same scriptures as I do ? or do you just like to bait? you know what I am about to post so go do some research . . read the scriptures for yourself . . .find out about trends in the world on your own . . you have to contribute here except bait

Lust is a choice. Temptation is not. So you really believe that Satan tempting someone qualifies as a sin? So is Jesus a sinner because Satan tempted him?

Lust is ungodly desire. Lust is desiring that which God tells us not to desire (it is not sexual in nature).

You claim that when someone come out publicly that they are only saying they are tempted. This is not the case.
No one comes out and then says I am tempted by this and I do not want to be tempted by this.

Every single person who comes out publicly proclaims "this is who I am, I am PROUD!!! to be this way".

You are selling me something that doesn't exist. You are selling me the idea that publicly coming out is only about temptation and it's not. You know this is the truth because you would not allow someone who comes out as MAP to be around children. Obviously it's not "just a temptation" when someone "comes out".

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 5:06 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:58 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:53 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:51 pm

yea, he called those temptations . . lust . . .sin to lust after a woman . . do you actually have the same scriptures as I do ? or do you just like to bait? you know what I am about to post so go do some research . . read the scriptures for yourself . . .find out about trends in the world on your own . . you have to contribute here except bait

Lust is a choice. Temptation is not. So you really believe that Satan tempting someone qualifies as a sin? So is Jesus a sinner because Satan tempted him?

Lust is ungodly desire. Lust is desiring that which God tells us not to desire (it is not sexual in nature).

You claim that when someone come out publicly that they are only saying they are tempted. This is not the case.
No one comes out and then says I am tempted by this and I do not want to be tempted by this.

Every single person who comes out publicly proclaims "this is who I am, I am PROUD!!! to be this way".

You are selling me something that doesn't exist. You are selling me the idea that publicly coming out is only about temptation and it's not. You know this is the truth because you would not allow someone who comes out as MAP to be around children. Obviously it's not "just a temptation" when someone "comes out".

Of course there are openly gay LDS people who know it's wrong. https://www.calledtoshare.com/2021/08/0 ... us-christ/

You need to get out more.

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 5:10 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 5:06 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:58 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:53 pm

Lust is a choice. Temptation is not. So you really believe that Satan tempting someone qualifies as a sin? So is Jesus a sinner because Satan tempted him?

Lust is ungodly desire. Lust is desiring that which God tells us not to desire (it is not sexual in nature).

You claim that when someone come out publicly that they are only saying they are tempted. This is not the case.
No one comes out and then says I am tempted by this and I do not want to be tempted by this.

Every single person who comes out publicly proclaims "this is who I am, I am PROUD!!! to be this way".

You are selling me something that doesn't exist. You are selling me the idea that publicly coming out is only about temptation and it's not. You know this is the truth because you would not allow someone who comes out as MAP to be around children. Obviously it's not "just a temptation" when someone "comes out".

Of course there are openly gay LDS people who know it's wrong. https://www.calledtoshare.com/2021/08/0 ... us-christ/

You need to get out more.

A side Christianity which only leads to B side.

This is not traditional.

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 2:53 pm

Iceberg wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 10:46 am

EvanLM wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 10:35 am I'm not sure what to say without words of discouragement . . . .Elder Bednar wrote in a book that when we talk about ourselves the spirit goes out . . . inked in a book . . .the spirit leaves. . . . but perhaps that only applies to me . . . why does it feel that rules are for us underlings but not for them in conference. . . brief references to family or friends and I is fine . . .but . . more scripture and meat is needed . . .

let me give proof since that is what some posters always want . . . why are members asking to have their names removed . . . why is our convert baptisms down since 1998? . . . why are our members as discouraged, depressed, suicidal, and sick with burdens and illness as much as the world . . . why don't their words compel our members to live at a higher level . . .

people are apostatizing even by not attending church anymore and being happy to . . . my sister says as long as her husband has permission to give sacrament at home she is not attending sacrament meeting . . . but they are good people . . . better than me . . letters can be sent in lieu of ministering and for years we have been encouraged to NOT give a lesson . . NOT speak of Christ? . . . no more missionary discussions for years to guide the teaching . . just go out and say what you want or feel . .

these are proof that I know of . . . .never seen so many saints not wanting to be associated with the programs of the church including the posts that have been put on this forum . . .

isn't this proof that conference and the programs are not working now ? maybe I'm wrong . . .maybe it is the fault of every member of the church and not our prophets . ..

I use the word programs .. .the gospel and doctrine of Jesus Christ will always work . . . the programs just aren't cutting it right now . . . no matter how they want to rely on past successes . . something is obviously wrong when we go backwards and not forward . . need to see the progress that accompanies their words . .

I was going to say some stuff but then remembered a neat video that I watched yesterday which I think has a lot to do with the missing pieces of the gospel as we’ve been instructed vs how it can actually change us.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR ... e=youtu.be

oh my heck . . . Who are these guys . . . this is the first time in 10 years of repentance that I have heard the words that explain the very things that I learned from the scriptures . . . I don't know if you have read any of my posts but I continuously complain that the 10 virgins stories is NOT about work. . . or "chairs". . . how can a convert make up for not doing the chairs . . . the real truth of the ten virgins is given by the Lord through the prophet JS and recorded in the D&C . . .but that is a good way to keep members on the treadmill of church callings, etc.

I have opposed the braggings of Holland . . .which I have seen recorded on Utube by witnesses to the ordinance and . . . his braggings when he does some ordinance to tell someone that their calling and election is made sure . . . they go through some crazy ordinance where the wife washes the husbands feet . . . not trying to be blasphemous but I say bs to that ordinance . . . also abut 50% of those who have received this ordinance are no longer members of the church and they have put out some pretty harsh videos talking about that . . . .

I refuse to have anyone but Jesus . . . tell me . . in this life . . . that he will give me eternal life . . .and this idea sets me apart from every member of the church that I have ever met, except today . . . but this is the first time I have heard it stated correctly and confidently by anyone . . . . now I'm not alone or apart . . .

unbelievable . . the confidence in this great doctrine . . .plus totally explained what it looks like today . . tells me that is what I have been seeing in the leadership of this church but didn't know what it was . . . there were some really sincere and true doctrinal talks today in conference that remind me of the fact that some leaders get it

their most remarkable point in this video is that Nephi went to ask God . . .JS went to ask God . . Alma went to ask God, etc. . . . this is a true principle with everything . . . temporal or spiritual . . . God will tell us through the HG anything we want to know and will tell us the truth . . . the viewing of that video was so worth it. . . thank you

if I have ever ventured to mention to any member of the church that we can receive revelation personally then the always act like Laman and Lemuel . . I can even hear their thoughts . . .they do not think that anyone can receive revelation . . .only those who are leadership . . .just what the abomination church taught until tinsdale corrected them . . then lost his life

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 5:17 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 5:10 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 5:06 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 4:58 pm
Lust is ungodly desire. Lust is desiring that which God tells us not to desire (it is not sexual in nature).

You claim that when someone come out publicly that they are only saying they are tempted. This is not the case.
No one comes out and then says I am tempted by this and I do not want to be tempted by this.

Every single person who comes out publicly proclaims "this is who I am, I am PROUD!!! to be this way".

You are selling me something that doesn't exist. You are selling me the idea that publicly coming out is only about temptation and it's not. You know this is the truth because you would not allow someone who comes out as MAP to be around children. Obviously it's not "just a temptation" when someone "comes out".

Of course there are openly gay LDS people who know it's wrong. https://www.calledtoshare.com/2021/08/0 ... us-christ/

You need to get out more.

A side Christianity which only leads to B side.

This is not traditional.

People also complained that Joseph didn't preach traditional Christianity. I care about that criticism as much as he did.

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 5:21 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 5:17 pm

spiritMan wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 5:10 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2022, 5:06 pm

Of course there are openly gay LDS people who know it's wrong. https://www.calledtoshare.com/2021/08/0 ... us-christ/

You need to get out more.

A side Christianity which only leads to B side.

This is not traditional.

People also complained that Joseph didn't preach traditional Christianity. I care about that criticism as much as he did.

What you advocate for isn't even what Joseph traditionally taught. But nice attempt to deflect!