LDS Freedom Forum

J2 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:42 am

krp435 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:38 am

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:23 am

krp435 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:13 am Andersen’s talk… Does being a peacemaker trump standing for truth?

The fact that you think those are contradictory is the problem, not Elder Anderson's talk.

Okay, I can deal with that. So you interpret that as we can peacefully stand for truth? Did he specify that and I missed it?

He actually did, yes.

From my notes:

How do we calm the fiery darts? Not by shrinking. We must share with conviction, but void of anger or malice.

Doesn't negate some of the other issues with his message.

But our leadership doesn't do that. It is nice of Elder Anderson to say, but the words have no meaning if we don't act that way.

Where is our conviction regarding the sin of homosexuality?
Where is our conviction regarding the sin of abortion?

We have shrunk to the point that you would need a magnifying glass to find our line in the sand on these issues.

He used the example of a career race propagandists who now likes the church as an example of what this looks like. Apparently giving money to these racists and becoming subservient to these people is how we stand our ground with conviction.

He used an example of legislation crafted in conjunction with homosexual groups as another example of this conviction without shrinking. But this legislation is a violation of your right to association guaranteed in the bill of rights. What principle are we standing firm on here without shrinking?

We have caved on homosexuality. We have caved on feminism. We have caved to NAACP and BLM. We put full faith in evil men in the government when it comes to our COVID response. What in the world is Elder Anderson talking about here?

It seems to me that this session of conference was a bunch of talks about how the leaders want you to percieve the church to be instead of how it actually IS. We seem to have taken a page out of the progressive playbook by trying to speak a reality into existence that doesn't actually exist.

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:41 am

krp435 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:38 am

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:23 am

krp435 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:13 am Andersen’s talk… Does being a peacemaker trump standing for truth?

The fact that you think those are contradictory is the problem, not Elder Anderson's talk.

Okay, I can deal with that. So you interpret that as we can peacefully stand for truth? Did he specify that and I missed it? I am sensitive to this topic because I’m seeing so many of my Christian friends be silent and promote love/acceptance/tolerance all day long. They have stopped standing for truth and slowly the opposite has taken effect…they have embraced woke ideologies. A large handful have even changed their belief on the proclamation. I believe Satan is using love/acceptance/peacemaking as his greatest tool against Christianity.

Quickest way to shut down a Christian? Tell them they’re unloving.

I defend truth but I do not do it by name calling, ridicule or hatred. However, I’ve been accused of all of those.

He said to be peaceful, full stop. That doesn't need caveats or clarifications.

He also said that peacemakers are persuasive, not passive.

Elder Andersen's talk is raising consternation by many here.

He's not saying let our adversaries walk over us. He's saying take time before responding and then do so in a manner that is consistent with Christ like attributes. With patience, loving-kindness, charity, and faith.

The prophesied dangerous times are already here. Caution is advised from here on out. Not war or polemics. A scalpel is needed, not a hammer. And if you feel yourself not sufficiently skilled to use a scalpel, don't insist on bringing the hammer and let others that DO have this gift do the fighting, while you reform yourself to be consistent with what Christ has today directed us to do through His servants.

J2 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:07 am "We are proud to be part of a coalition of worldly, wicked people." What an appalling statement.

But Anderson reassured us that the Brethren do not have “worldly motives like political, business, and worldly leaders”...?

J2 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:53 am

The Lord has given you, personally, an invitation to come unto Him for peace in this life, and eternal life in the world to come.

Great message from President Eyring. Jesus Christ is the way, the only way. Any other way is foolishness.

And when Jesus made a whip… and scattered the accepted, tolerance of money changers and shop keepers providing convenience at the temple to let members sacrifice per the law…

Is that being peaceable…??

Atticus wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:58 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:47 am I guess “all y’all” is a good option.

We could always do what the members of the church in Germany have always done. Instead of saying "dear brothers and sisters," which is clunky in German, they usually say "liebe Geschwister." Which means "dear siblings."

I lived in Germany and attended a normal (non-military) German speaking ward. They would say "liebe schwester und bruder".

I'm working on a thread analyzing a paper made by the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1909 by a man named Alvin Knisley. The paper is a defense of their stance on what happened after Joseph's death and their views on a lack of authority and lack of prophesy found in the LDS church. It was primarily made because of things said by Joseph F. Smith Jr in a book released between 1897 and 1907 (according to them, and I'm not saying they aren't guilty of drifting from truth, or that they have any authority, to me they sadly come across as a group that unfortunately under-performed while having something worthwhile to say for a time).

Here is an excerpt that I find timely and relevant for the mood of this thread. It hits claims of prophesy hard and is centered on revelation from God to Joseph about what the Saints were expected to receive had they finished the Nauvoo Temple in the time God allotted them and had it been truly accepted by the Lord and had Him dwell in it.

RLDS Church wrote:As literally as smoke and warmth issue from fire, these revelations were to issue from the dwelling and abiding of the Lord in that temple. The reception of those revelations was to be an evidence of his acceptance of the temple. The non-reception of the revelations was to be an evidence that the temple was not accepted. He would not reveal himself in or on account of a temple that had not been built; and even if it had been built, he says, “if you build a house unto me and do not the things that I say, I will not fulfill the promises which ye expect at my hands.” We have, therefore, a reason to expect that upon the completion of that edifice God would “restore again that which was lost”; the he would reveal his “ordinances” therein, that he would reveal things never thereunto revealed, things that were hid “from before the foundation of the world,” and that were to pertain to the “dispensation of the fullness of times.” We are therein informed of the seal of approval that God was to put upon that house and the nature of that seal. We are not only told that he was to reveal himself, but we are informed beforehand of the import of the revelations.

RLDS Church wrote:Now, let us ask Mr. Smith: Have any such revelations been received? Name them. Where are they and what are they? Our Doctrine and Covenants contains only two sections that were given between that time and the time the Saints left Nauvoo, and they are not revelations, but letters of Joseph Smith containing items of revelation pertaining to baptism for the dead. The Utah Doctrine and Covenants contains nothing that could be accepted as a response, an answer, to the promise in full. Section 125 is said to be a revelation directing the Iowa Saints to gather at or near Nauvoo. Section 126, not published in the Martyr’s lifetime, is purportedly to Brigham Young, telling him that he could stay home thereafter and take care of his family. Nothing in either of these purported revelations revealing lost ordinances, the fullness of the priesthood, or anything that specially pertains to the dispensation of the fullness of times.

Doctrine and Covenants contains scripture very condemning of the early saints and I feel this is something largely ignored and not taken seriously in the LDS church. I never realized how much criticism the Lord gave the saints. Growing up, I never saw this stuff taught or discussed in church, in seminary, anywhere. The overwhelming information I was given is that they were always wronged. Always. They never did a thing wrong. They were simply always wronged by others.


It's clear as crystal that God told Joseph a temple accepted by Him would be a momentous thing revealing priceless, hidden information. As Kinsley so eloquently writes it (and whether true or false, Denver Snuffer has done an excellent job bringing attention back to this), there's nothing to show the Lord accepted the temple, abode in it, and revealed what He declared the Saints should expect to receive had they properly done things they were commanded to do.



I think something went wrong somewhere. It's exciting, because in some ways, it now makes the events of Joseph's life feel more real, consequential and important than ever.

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 12:57 pm

Atticus wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:58 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:47 am I guess “all y’all” is a good option.

We could always do what the members of the church in Germany have always done. Instead of saying "dear brothers and sisters," which is clunky in German, they usually say "liebe Geschwister." Which means "dear siblings."

I lived in Germany and attended a normal (non-military) German speaking ward. They would say "liebe schwester und bruder".

It probably depends on where you were at. I served my mission in Germany and lived there for a year as a child as well. Plus my mom is German. "Liebe Geschwister" is very common, especially with the older members. But not everyone says it.

The point is that they do frequently say "dear siblings" while in the U.S. we have traditionally said brothers and sister. I have never heard anyone say "dear siblings" in English.

Did any of the speakers today (so far) testify that Joseph is a prophet and that the Book of Mormon is authentic and the word of God?

Atticus wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 1:08 pm

Robin Hood wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 12:57 pm

Atticus wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:58 am

Lizzy60 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:47 am I guess “all y’all” is a good option.

We could always do what the members of the church in Germany have always done. Instead of saying "dear brothers and sisters," which is clunky in German, they usually say "liebe Geschwister." Which means "dear siblings."

I lived in Germany and attended a normal (non-military) German speaking ward. They would say "liebe schwester und bruder".

It probably depends on where you were at. I served my mission in Germany and lived there for a year as a child as well. Plus my mom is German. "Liebe Geschwister" is very common, especially with the older members. But not everyone says it.

The point is that they do frequently say "dear siblings" while in the U.S. we have traditionally said brothers and sister. I have never heard anyone say "dear siblings" in English.

I lived in the north of Germany. Never heard "Liebe Geschwister" once. Maybe it's a regional thing

Ebenezer wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 1:11 pm Did any of the speakers today (so far) testify that Joseph is a prophet and that the Book of Mormon is authentic and the word of God?

Well you can bet that there will be many testifying that RMN is a prophet without evidence.

Well, after Anderson's talk, the ladies I sparred with on Facebook are no doubt gloating. Especially when I ended the conversation by saying maybe the subject will be addressed at General conference

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 1:25 pm Well you can bet that there will be many testifying that RMN is a prophet without evidence.

I have noticed this increase exponentially under RMN. For believers, I get your point of view, things are getting more dangerous so they're trying to really keep everyone's eyes on the voice of truth

But for people like me who stopped believing, it's something notable as it is lining up with them becoming more liberal and globalist as an institution and being complicit in building up the Covid lie.

tdj wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 1:32 pm Well, after Anderson's talk, the ladies I sparred with on Facebook are no doubt gloating. Especially when I ended the conversation by saying maybe the subject will be addressed at General conference

Anderson was the "just be a peacemaker" talk? That sucks that everyone is gloating over you. Remember how many people seeking to stand with God and not be popular are in the scriptures. Taking a stand will generally isolate you and leave you lacking in friends. It hurts. But you are taking up the cross with Christ. The conspiracy warnings and the warnings of civilizations being destroyed are clear themes in the Book of Mormon. There are wars going on and the main themes of the Book of Mormon are being downplayed and twisted within mainstream Mormon membership and their leaders.

If the Saints were under condemnation for taking the Book of Mormon lightly in 1831, how does God view the profound, clear, painful themes and warnings of the book being downplayed today?

There will be a time when the Times of the Gentiles are fulfilled and society exists in such a way where the Work of The Father moves forward with the Lamanite remnant and repentant Gentile remnant

Mainstream members can ignore all they want, but that book is a warning of conspiratorial organizations corrupting society and societies being swept away.

We need to wake up.

JK4Woods wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 12:36 pm

J2 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:53 am

The Lord has given you, personally, an invitation to come unto Him for peace in this life, and eternal life in the world to come.

Great message from President Eyring. Jesus Christ is the way, the only way. Any other way is foolishness.

And when Jesus made a whip… and scattered the accepted, tolerance of money changers and shop keepers providing convenience at the temple to let members sacrifice per the law…

Is that being peaceable…??

First of all, President Eyring is preaching following Christ, and having Him as our rock, at the pulpit, while ushering Christ's flock steadily toward Babylon, and trusting in the arm of flesh to get the vaccines. Hypocrisy at the highest levels of the Church. I listened to a part of his talk, and wondered at the boldness and mockery of his words, because his actions are the exact opposite of Christ's. So, I guess the other way, the First Presidency is in actuality leading the Saints, is indeed foolishness.

Good point about the whip that Jesus made.

Matthew 10:34-36
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
36 And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household.

I think Christ is anxious to have us wield the sword of truth right now. While all we get at General Conference is pablum (bland baby food). What the Church needs to survive and become the Zion of the last days, is preaching repentance, with fiery, bold sermons like the Prophets of old. It is not pretty or safe. It costs lives, sometimes. But, we are told that the Servants of God are willing to lay down their lives in defense of the truth.

I thought of all those "Saints" crying for Jesus to be crucified. They thought they were doing the right thing, because their Priests told them Jesus violated their law. Same with those in the time of Joan of Arc. Is it so outlandish to imagine the same thing happening in our time. I have it on good authority, that the Church will be the one to "mar" the Lord's Servant, "beyond human likeness." And it will be because most believe the Servant is wicked. Read what Jesus tells the Nephites about this servant. The Doctrine and Covenants indicates he comes to set the Church in order.

The sword Jesus brings now, is the word that we need to hear, the truth about the compromising with Babylon that has led the Church astray. As far as I can see, it already is setting family members against each other. It will only become more pronounced.

I wish peace and a happy life on orthodox members and don't mean to be rude but I see problems in an institution and I'm trying to professionally voice my frustrations.

Kit-OTW wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 1:39 pm
The sword Jesus brings now, is the word that we need to hear, the truth about the compromising with Babylon that has led the Church astray. As far as I can see, it already is setting family members against each other. It will only become more pronounced.

Welcome to the board. You are very right. There have been a few heated conversations in my family already. These are going to occur to more families. They don't need to be arguments. If the church makes a concession in the near future that I have a feeling they will make, I think a lot of families will be able to peaceably agree to disagree. I think devout LDS who are all in no matter what will at least be able to say "I see, what you're saying, I still think the ship is right, but I see your point in no longer wanting to be on the ship".

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:23 am

krp435 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:13 am Andersen’s talk… Does being a peacemaker trump standing for truth?

The fact that you think those are contradictory is the problem, not Elder Anderson's talk.

The fact that the Church is condoning and embracing Wickedness, and then trying to claim that this is Christ-like behavior is the crux of the issue. They have let the nose of the camel into the tent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

"Sisters and brothers" (no comma after sisters), at GC, since 1971 (31× total):

Times Words
 +2021 1 130,821
 +2020 5 131,491
 +2019 1 130,048
 +2018 9 132,720
 +2016 1 138,694
 +2015 2 142,662
 +2014 2 141,051
 +2013 1 145,257
 +2012 1 150,565
 +2011 1 149,270
 +2005 1 139,025
 +2002 1 139,222
 +2000 1 141,465
 +1998 1 144,459
 +1995 1 148,254
 +1994 1 145,055
 +1979 1 150,221

Kit-OTW wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 1:39 pm

JK4Woods wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 12:36 pm

J2 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:53 am

The Lord has given you, personally, an invitation to come unto Him for peace in this life, and eternal life in the world to come.

Great message from President Eyring. Jesus Christ is the way, the only way. Any other way is foolishness.

And when Jesus made a whip… and scattered the accepted, tolerance of money changers and shop keepers providing convenience at the temple to let members sacrifice per the law…

Is that being peaceable…??

First of all, President Eyring is preaching following Christ, and having Him as our rock, at the pulpit, while ushering Christ's flock steadily toward Babylon, and trusting in the arm of flesh to get the vaccines. Hypocrisy at the highest levels of the Church. I listened to a part of his talk, and wondered at the boldness and mockery of his words, because his actions are the exact opposite of Christ's. So, I guess the other way, the First Presidency is in actuality leading the Saints, is indeed foolishness.

Good point about the whip that Jesus made.

Matthew 10:34-36
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
36 And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household.

I think Christ is anxious to have us wield the sword of truth right now. While all we get at General Conference is pablum (bland baby food). What the Church needs to survive and become the Zion of the last days, is preaching repentance, with fiery, bold sermons like the Prophets of old. It is not pretty or safe. It costs lives, sometimes. But, we are told that the Servants of God are willing to lay down their lives in defense of the truth.

I thought of all those "Saints" crying for Jesus to be crucified. They thought they were doing the right thing, because their Priests told them Jesus violated their law. Same with those in the time of Joan of Arc. Is it so outlandish to imagine the same thing happening in our time. I have it on good authority, that the Church will be the one to "mar" the Lord's Servant, "beyond human likeness." And it will be because most believe the Servant is wicked. Read what Jesus tells the Nephites about this servant. The Doctrine and Covenants indicates he comes to set the Church in order.

The sword Jesus brings now, is the word that we need to hear, the truth about the compromising with Babylon that has led the Church astray. As far as I can see, it already is setting family members against each other. It will only become more pronounced.

Excellent post!

"Brothers and sisters" (no comma after brothers), at GC, since 1971 (2577× total):

Times Words
 +2021 67 130,821
 +2020 73 131,491
 +2019 75 130,048
 +2018 90 132,720
 +2017 66 142,713
 +2016 59 138,694
 +2015 59 142,662
 +2014 49 141,051
 +2013 63 145,257
 +2012 60 150,565
 +2011 65 149,270
 +2010 56 147,242
 +2009 59 147,783
 +2008 54 145,017
 +2007 50 143,967
 +2006 51 140,744
 +2005 49 139,025
 +2004 46 138,526
 +2003 52 139,123
 +2002 47 139,222
 +2001 51 143,911
 +2000 50 141,465
 +1999 47 151,510
 +1998 52 144,459
 +1997 51 145,144
 +1996 42 144,048
 +1995 42 148,254
 +1994 37 145,055
 +1993 38 139,089
 +1992 42 148,998
 +1991 44 139,038
 +1990 42 145,808
 +1989 41 135,122
 +1988 36 126,335
 +1987 42 125,590
 +1986 37 121,907
 +1985 22 130,206
 +1984 43 127,573
 +1983 34 125,808
 +1982 38 148,033
 +1981 46 148,069
 +1980 63 149,210
 +1979 43 150,221
 +1978 52 163,340
 +1977 48 149,366
 +1976 70 193,529
 +1975 73 190,603
 +1974 52 180,155
 +1973 39 179,171
 +1972 36 169,724
 +1971 34 163,146

anonymous91 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 1:46 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:23 am

krp435 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:13 am Andersen’s talk… Does being a peacemaker trump standing for truth?

The fact that you think those are contradictory is the problem, not Elder Anderson's talk.

The fact that the Church is condoning and embracing Wickedness, and then trying to claim that this is Christ-like behavior is the crux of the issue. They have let the nose of the camel into the tent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

It has never embraced wickedness. It has told people not to hate people, even if they're sinners. People don't seem to be able to understand the difference.

Jashon wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 1:51 pm "Brothers and sisters" (no comma after brothers), at GC, since 1971 (2577× total):

Times Words
 +2021 67 130,821
 +2020 73 131,491
 +2019 75 130,048
 +2018 90 132,720
 +2017 66 142,713
 +2016 59 138,694
 +2015 59 142,662
 +2014 49 141,051
 +2013 63 145,257
 +2012 60 150,565
 +2011 65 149,270
 +2010 56 147,242
 +2009 59 147,783
 +2008 54 145,017
 +2007 50 143,967
 +2006 51 140,744
 +2005 49 139,025
 +2004 46 138,526
 +2003 52 139,123
 +2002 47 139,222
 +2001 51 143,911
 +2000 50 141,465
 +1999 47 151,510
 +1998 52 144,459
 +1997 51 145,144
 +1996 42 144,048
 +1995 42 148,254
 +1994 37 145,055
 +1993 38 139,089
 +1992 42 148,998
 +1991 44 139,038
 +1990 42 145,808
 +1989 41 135,122
 +1988 36 126,335
 +1987 42 125,590
 +1986 37 121,907
 +1985 22 130,206
 +1984 43 127,573
 +1983 34 125,808
 +1982 38 148,033
 +1981 46 148,069
 +1980 63 149,210
 +1979 43 150,221
 +1978 52 163,340
 +1977 48 149,366
 +1976 70 193,529
 +1975 73 190,603
 +1974 52 180,155
 +1973 39 179,171
 +1972 36 169,724
 +1971 34 163,146

I'm confused by the "Words" column on the right. Why are they in the 100,00s? It only takes three words to say any variation of 'brothers and sisters'. It seems like unneeded and distracting information in what you are trying to show.

Total number of words in the conference reports for that year.

Taken from BYU's WordCruncher program, which has been around since the 1980s.

anonymous91 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 1:46 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:23 am

krp435 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:13 am Andersen’s talk… Does being a peacemaker trump standing for truth?

The fact that you think those are contradictory is the problem, not Elder Anderson's talk.

The fact that the Church is condoning and embracing Wickedness, and then trying to claim that this is Christ-like behavior is the crux of the issue. They have let the nose of the camel into the tent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

This is progressive Christianity. Elevating the second commandment over the first and thereby redefining Love according to the progressive standards. Christians who preach the sermon on the mount without the context of the rest of Christ's teachings and actions.

RMN has fully embraced this version of Christianity, and it appears that he has converted a few of our apostles, like Anderson, along the way. I think there are still apostles, like Bednar and Eyring, who have not fully accepted this view, but they don't tackle the falseness of it head on.

The result is a talk by Bednar on not heeding the world followed by a talk by Anderson telling us how important it is to heed the world so we can work with them in "peacemaking" (AKA getting them to like us).

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 1:54 pm

anonymous91 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 1:46 pm

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:23 am

krp435 wrote: ↑April 2nd, 2022, 11:13 am Andersen’s talk… Does being a peacemaker trump standing for truth?

The fact that you think those are contradictory is the problem, not Elder Anderson's talk.

The fact that the Church is condoning and embracing Wickedness, and then trying to claim that this is Christ-like behavior is the crux of the issue. They have let the nose of the camel into the tent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

It has never embraced wickedness. It has told people not to hate people, even if they're sinners. People don't seem to be able to understand the difference.

Yes, the Church is embracing wickedness. They wrote a check to an organization that actively promotes abortion. They have taken the word “homosexuality” out of the Handbook. They have given millions of dollars to pro-lgbtq organizations in Utah. They have told members that it’s fine and dandy if they promote gay marriage on social media. Shall I go on?