Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

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Niemand
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Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Niemand »

Zoroaster or Zarathustra is the forgotten prophet among the major world religions. His religion was once the creed of the Persian Empire and then succumbed to Islam. Other than a few pockets in Iran/Persia, it exists among the Parsees of India, such as the family of Queen singer, Freddy Mercury. There is even a board member here with a Zoroastrian name - Artaxerxes but the less said on that the better.

Modern Zoroastrianism revolves a lot around Ahura Mazda (the good deity) and his fight against Ahriman (a satanic figure) and fire worship. The Magi who visited Jesus are sometimes suggested as Zoroastrians too.

But there is an interesting tradition in Iran. That Zoroaster was taught by the Prophet Jeremiah. There is a notion in some quarters that his doctrine was originally in line with the gospel but perverted after its own Great Apostasy

I don't know how accurate this, so don't shoot the messenger.

This is off the Britam site:
at this time, in eastern Iran (in the Scythian-controlled regions of Hara and Bactria), there arose a religious reformer named Zarathustra (Zoroaster) whose original doctrine was monotheistic and even Biblical in character. After Zoroaster's death, his religion was paganized by the Median tribe of Magi, even though the original message had been Hebraic. Zoroaster, according to Iranian tradition had been taught by the prophet Jeremiah or by a pupil of Jeremiah. Zoroaster himself had Scythian familial connections yet some reports identify him as an Israelite. Zoroaster is an additional indication that the historical Scythians were to a significant degree of Israelite origin.
The website also suggests the Gathas, or scriptures of the Zoroastrians show influence from Isaiah.

The pure doctrines of Zoroaster appear to have included monotheism (perverted to dualism, because of its notion of opposition), angels, resurrection of the dead, last judgement.

The notion that Zoroaster was God's prophet whose message and scriptures were perverted is a tempting one, and fits in line with what it says in the scriptures that God has sent messengers to many peoples, not just those mentioned in the Bible or BoM.

The first element of Zoroaster's name appears to be related to that of Zarahemla in the Book of Mormon (not mentioned in the link), but note zara comment below.

https://www.britam.org/zoroaster.html
The father of Darius had been converted by Zarathustra.
Jean-Claude Brinette, "Religion in Ancient Persia", points out that the
name Dariusin Persian was pronounced as Darayavahu. Brinette says: Darius
is properly Darayavahu. Yavahu is uncommonly like Yehouah (YHWH), and must
have sounded similar. Vahu is the Iranian god of the wind, that became,
like the Hebrew, to mean breath and so life, so Yavahu literally means the
same as YHWH. Scholars admit the etymology of "DR" ("ZR") is puzzling.
[In
Aramaiac and Iranian the dand the zcould interchange, e.g. Manda=
Manasseh]. Literally, "zara" refers to the action of sowing seed in the
fields (Gen 26:12; Isa 37:30), and seems to be a Semitic root. So, Zara in
Hebrew is seed. & Darayavahu can be read in Hebrew meaning "seed (progeny)
of Yehouah," "seed of the living god."
Brinette also points out that,
<<Nehemiah was the "cupbearer" to Artaxerxes (Neh 2:1). Since Artaxerxes,
as a devout Zoroastrian, could not have touched let alone drunk from a
ritually unclean cup, Nehemiah must himself have been [considered the same
as] a Zoroastrian. Pollution in the Zoroastrian scheme was the result of
the Evil Spirit who caused "dust, stench, blight, disease, decay and
death."
Devout people were obliged to stay clear of these noxious things to
protect themselves as Ahuramazda's good creation. The king particularly
required this protection, and we can be sure that his servants had a duty
to keep him pure.>> In other words, in the eyes of Artaxerxes, Nehemiah the
Israelite must have been considered ritually pure from the point of view of
Zoroastrianism.
The "Holiness Code" of Leviticus 18 to 26 is a code of
purity from pollution that has similarities with practices of Zoroastrianism.

Atrasado
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Atrasado »

It sounds likely to me. That's interesting.

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Niemand
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Niemand »

Atrasado wrote: March 29th, 2022, 2:58 pm It sounds likely to me. That's interesting.
I don't know what to make it. I think there is some truth in Buddhism etc, except that it's so mixed in with false doctrine, that it's hard to disentangle what's what. Same applies here, although there are some intriguing links.

Modern Zoroastrianism is obviously even more corrupted than Christianity and Judaism are.

The Muslims believe 20,000 prophets have been sent out to the world. That's way too big a number, but I think there are many more than we know of.

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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Atrasado »

I agree. But if this is true it shows that the Lord did send prophets to many people. I, for one, hope that someday we get to see all the Lord's work. I think the scriptures say we will be given this gift if we are faithful.

Dave62
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Dave62 »

I think you are onto something there. The Lord leads away His people from time to time at His own timing and purpose. There have been many wanderings of Hebraic people and more than a few diaspora. This website looks a bit dodgey but it has some interesting stories. https://hbcuconnect.com/content/112064/ ... ient-japan

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gkearney
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by gkearney »

Dave62 wrote: March 31st, 2022, 4:41 amThis website looks a bit dodgey but it has some interesting stories. https://hbcuconnect.com/content/112064/ ... ient-japan
Nothing dodgy about that website it is one mostly devoted to Historically Black Colleges & Universities and their alumni. Historically Black Colleges & Universities are those institutions that were created in the days of segregation in the United States to serve the black population. No longer segregated, they continue to have primarily black student bodies and faculty to this day.

Some of these schools such as Howard University in Washington, D.C., have exceptional academic reputations. Many offer a good value in terms of costs.

Dave62
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Dave62 »

gkearney wrote: March 31st, 2022, 11:03 am
Dave62 wrote: March 31st, 2022, 4:41 amThis website looks a bit dodgey but it has some interesting stories. https://hbcuconnect.com/content/112064/ ... ient-japan
Nothing dodgy about that website it is one mostly devoted to Historically Black Colleges & Universities and their alumni. Historically Black Colleges & Universities are those institutions that were created in the days of segregation in the United States to serve the black population. No longer segregated, they continue to have primarily black student bodies and faculty to this day.

Some of these schools such as Howard University in Washington, D.C., have exceptional academic reputations. Many offer a good value in terms of costs.
Well, thank you for that. That is something I never knew.

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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by creator »

I just happened to be listening to some Rudolf Steiner lectures this week in which he mentioned Zoroaster / Zarathustra.

"In the ancient Persian epoch archangels took part in guiding humanity. They submitted to the leadership of Christ even earlier than the beings of the lower hierarchies. Zarathustra, for example, turned the attention of his followers and his people to the sun, telling them that the great spirit Ahura Mazda, “he who will come down to earth,” lives in the sun."

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Thinker
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Thinker »

Niemand wrote: March 30th, 2022, 7:44 amI don't know what to make it. I think there is some truth in Buddhism etc, except that it's so mixed in with false doctrine, that it's hard to disentangle what's what. Same applies here, although there are some intriguing links.

Modern Zoroastrianism is obviously even more corrupted than Christianity and Judaism are.

The Muslims believe 20,000 prophets have been sent out to the world. That's way too big a number, but I think there are many more than we know of.
It depends how you define prophet, but there is definitely more divine wisdom for the seeking, than many would imagine. But definitely wisdom isn’t spoon fed from a silver platter.

I hadn’t previously known about Zoroastrianism. What are your impressions in the modern sense?

Some quotes I like from Zoroaster:

”Doing good to others is not a duty. It is a joy, for it increases your own health and happiness.

With an open mind, seek and listen to all the highest ideals. Consider the most enlightened thoughts. Then choose your path, person by person, each for oneself.

One need not scale the heights of the heavens, nor travel along the highways of the world to find Ahura Mazda. With purity of mind and holiness of heart one can find Him in one's own heart.

By my love and my hope I beseech you - do not forsake hero in your soul!“

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BuriedTartaria
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by BuriedTartaria »

Someone I know literally mentioned this to me the other day. It was the first I had ever heard about it. Interesting stuff.

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Niemand
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Niemand »

Thinker wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 11:03 am
Niemand wrote: March 30th, 2022, 7:44 amI don't know what to make it. I think there is some truth in Buddhism etc, except that it's so mixed in with false doctrine, that it's hard to disentangle what's what. Same applies here, although there are some intriguing links.

Modern Zoroastrianism is obviously even more corrupted than Christianity and Judaism are.

The Muslims believe 20,000 prophets have been sent out to the world. That's way too big a number, but I think there are many more than we know of.
It depends how you define prophet, but there is definitely more divine wisdom for the seeking, than many would imagine. But definitely wisdom isn’t spoon fed from a silver platter.

I hadn’t previously known about Zoroastrianism. What are your impressions in the modern sense?

Some quotes I like from Zoroaster:

”Doing good to others is not a duty. It is a joy, for it increases your own health and happiness.

With an open mind, seek and listen to all the highest ideals. Consider the most enlightened thoughts. Then choose your path, person by person, each for oneself.

One need not scale the heights of the heavens, nor travel along the highways of the world to find Ahura Mazda. With purity of mind and holiness of heart one can find Him in one's own heart.

By my love and my hope I beseech you - do not forsake hero in your soul!“
The very brief version. Z.ism was the state religion of the Persian empire at the height of its powers, but has dwindled to almost nothing thanks to Islamic aggression. It was once the biggest religion in the world. Zoroaster/Zarathustra was one of the earliest monotheistic prophets (the other might be Emperor Akhenaten of Egypt.) At its core is the struggle between Ahura Mazda (its god) and Ahriman (its devil).

Most people don't know much about the religion because there aren't many followers left. There are some pockets left in Iran, but many fled to Bombay/Mumbai in India where the main population seems to be. And inevitably small colonies in developed countries.

Like Judaism, Christianity, and probably Buddhism too, it seems to have undergone a lot of changes in its history. A priestly class has taken over, scriptures lost or corrupted. It became too tied in with the state. A lot of "traditions" and secular philosophies crept in, and pagan influences. You get the picture... a lot in common with what happened to the church. The question is whether pre-Apostasy Z.ism was a godly religion.

There are several other even more obscure religions in that region that may have gospel roots. (Other than Judaism and Islam) The Mandans, for example, claim to have been influenced by John the Baptist, practice baptism for the dead but are not Christian.

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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by TheDuke »

The only thing I recall about Zoroastrians in my studies were that they believed in allowing religious freedom. They believed in one god but allowed others to believe as they chose. Hence, helping Israel in their desire for religious freedom.

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Shawn Henry
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Shawn Henry »

"For behold, the Lord doth grant unto all nations, of their own nation and tongue, to teach his word, yea, in wisdom, all that he seeth fit that they should have"

It's like God is a math teacher. Some get taught basic math, some pre-algebra, and some advanced math, all according to the level they are at. If he were to bring in too much truth, his advanced math, it would be lost on all those who are not ready for it, so therefore, the only way to get some things to stick is to teach less.

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Thinker
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Thinker »

Niemand wrote: September 3rd, 2022, 12:54 pm The very brief version. Z.ism was the state religion of the Persian empire at the height of its powers, but has dwindled to almost nothing thanks to Islamic aggression. It was once the biggest religion in the world. Zoroaster/Zarathustra was one of the earliest monotheistic prophets (the other might be Emperor Akhenaten of Egypt.) At its core is the struggle between Ahura Mazda (its god) and Ahriman (its devil).

Most people don't know much about the religion because there aren't many followers left. There are some pockets left in Iran, but many fled to Bombay/Mumbai in India where the main population seems to be. And inevitably small colonies in developed countries.

Like Judaism, Christianity, and probably Buddhism too, it seems to have undergone a lot of changes in its history. A priestly class has taken over, scriptures lost or corrupted. It became too tied in with the state. A lot of "traditions" and secular philosophies crept in, and pagan influences. You get the picture... a lot in common with what happened to the church. The question is whether pre-Apostasy Z.ism was a godly religion.

There are several other even more obscure religions in that region that may have gospel roots. (Other than Judaism and Islam) The Mandans, for example, claim to have been influenced by John the Baptist, practice baptism for the dead but are not Christian.
Thanks.
I wonder if the code of Ur -Nammu (2100 BC) or the code of Hammurabi (about 1750 BC upon which which the 10 commandments seem to be based) influenced Zoroaster/his religion. Some pretty strict, no-nonsense laws there.

Abraham was born (1800 BC) at least 300 years before Zoroaster. So there may have been some influence too - and I wouldn’t doubt Abraham’s ideas were altered a lot too - maybe for some good, considering he came from religions of human sacrifice.

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JLHPROF
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by JLHPROF »

Their sacred clothing practices are also similar to ours. I've always thought they had some gospel origin in some dispensation.

Dave62
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Dave62 »

Niemand wrote: March 30th, 2022, 7:44 am
Atrasado wrote: March 29th, 2022, 2:58 pm It sounds likely to me. That's interesting.
I don't know what to make it. I think there is some truth in Buddhism etc, except that it's so mixed in with false doctrine, that it's hard to disentangle what's what. Same applies here, although there are some intriguing links.

Modern Zoroastrianism is obviously even more corrupted than Christianity and Judaism are.

The Muslims believe 20,000 prophets have been sent out to the world. That's way too big a number, but I think there are many more than we know of.
Niemand, please stop! I'm supposed to be writing up end of term reports and you go ahead and throw this juicy morsel in my way. I have just got out of a blinder of a rabbit hole researching (read wasting time) this topic and my reports are left undone. :x

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Silver Pie
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Silver Pie »

Do you think it's possible he could be Zenos or Zenock? (I'm just throwing this out there; I have no idea - just that they are two prophets not found in the Old Testament.)
Niemand wrote: March 23rd, 2022, 7:18 am Zoroaster or Zarathustra is the forgotten prophet among the major world religions. His religion was once the creed of the Persian Empire and then succumbed to Islam. Other than a few pockets in Iran/Persia, it exists among the Parsees of India, such as the family of Queen singer, Freddy Mercury. There is even a board member here with a Zoroastrian name - Artaxerxes but the less said on that the better.

Modern Zoroastrianism revolves a lot around Ahura Mazda (the good deity) and his fight against Ahriman (a satanic figure) and fire worship. The Magi who visited Jesus are sometimes suggested as Zoroastrians too.

But there is an interesting tradition in Iran. That Zoroaster was taught by the Prophet Jeremiah. There is a notion in some quarters that his doctrine was originally in line with the gospel but perverted after its own Great Apostasy

I don't know how accurate this, so don't shoot the messenger.

This is off the Britam site:
at this time, in eastern Iran (in the Scythian-controlled regions of Hara and Bactria), there arose a religious reformer named Zarathustra (Zoroaster) whose original doctrine was monotheistic and even Biblical in character. After Zoroaster's death, his religion was paganized by the Median tribe of Magi, even though the original message had been Hebraic. Zoroaster, according to Iranian tradition had been taught by the prophet Jeremiah or by a pupil of Jeremiah. Zoroaster himself had Scythian familial connections yet some reports identify him as an Israelite. Zoroaster is an additional indication that the historical Scythians were to a significant degree of Israelite origin.
The website also suggests the Gathas, or scriptures of the Zoroastrians show influence from Isaiah.

The pure doctrines of Zoroaster appear to have included monotheism (perverted to dualism, because of its notion of opposition), angels, resurrection of the dead, last judgement.

The notion that Zoroaster was God's prophet whose message and scriptures were perverted is a tempting one, and fits in line with what it says in the scriptures that God has sent messengers to many peoples, not just those mentioned in the Bible or BoM.

The first element of Zoroaster's name appears to be related to that of Zarahemla in the Book of Mormon (not mentioned in the link), but note zara comment below.

https://www.britam.org/zoroaster.html
The father of Darius had been converted by Zarathustra.
Jean-Claude Brinette, "Religion in Ancient Persia", points out that the
name Dariusin Persian was pronounced as Darayavahu. Brinette says: Darius
is properly Darayavahu. Yavahu is uncommonly like Yehouah (YHWH), and must
have sounded similar. Vahu is the Iranian god of the wind, that became,
like the Hebrew, to mean breath and so life, so Yavahu literally means the
same as YHWH. Scholars admit the etymology of "DR" ("ZR") is puzzling.
[In
Aramaiac and Iranian the dand the zcould interchange, e.g. Manda=
Manasseh]. Literally, "zara" refers to the action of sowing seed in the
fields (Gen 26:12; Isa 37:30), and seems to be a Semitic root. So, Zara in
Hebrew is seed. & Darayavahu can be read in Hebrew meaning "seed (progeny)
of Yehouah," "seed of the living god."
Brinette also points out that,
<<Nehemiah was the "cupbearer" to Artaxerxes (Neh 2:1). Since Artaxerxes,
as a devout Zoroastrian, could not have touched let alone drunk from a
ritually unclean cup, Nehemiah must himself have been [considered the same
as] a Zoroastrian. Pollution in the Zoroastrian scheme was the result of
the Evil Spirit who caused "dust, stench, blight, disease, decay and
death."
Devout people were obliged to stay clear of these noxious things to
protect themselves as Ahuramazda's good creation. The king particularly
required this protection, and we can be sure that his servants had a duty
to keep him pure.>> In other words, in the eyes of Artaxerxes, Nehemiah the
Israelite must have been considered ritually pure from the point of view of
Zoroastrianism.
The "Holiness Code" of Leviticus 18 to 26 is a code of
purity from pollution that has similarities with practices of Zoroastrianism.

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Niemand
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Niemand »

Silver Pie wrote: September 9th, 2022, 10:24 pm Do you think it's possible he could be Zenos or Zenock? (I'm just throwing this out there; I have no idea - just that they are two prophets not found in the Old Testament.)
There does seem to be a Book of Mormon connection. The first part of Zarahemla's name may be related to Zoroaster's (see above.)

I'm not really getting that feeling about the two prophets. I suppose there is a remote chance of it.

We have some "pure transmission" of the words of Zenos and Zenock down to us via the Book of Mormon*. I think Zoroaster's message has been thoroughly contaminated and altered, so it is very difficult to say what's authentic and what's not.

* There is some possible evidence of one or the other of these from the Dead Sea Scrolls and elsewhere. I can't recall all the details. There

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Silver Pie
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Silver Pie »

Niemand wrote: September 10th, 2022, 2:50 amI think Zoroaster's message has been thoroughly contaminated and altered, so it is very difficult to say what's authentic and what's not.
I wouldn't be surprised. That seems to happen with most, if not all, prophets - to some degree, anyway. I think Mohamed may have been a true prophet, but that just like Joseph had his Brigham Young, Mohamed had a man immediately after his death who drastically altered his teachings and words.

* There is some possible evidence of one or the other of these from the Dead Sea Scrolls and elsewhere. I can't recall all the details.
Fascinating! I would like to know more about this.

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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by DesertWonderer2 »

Niemand wrote: March 23rd, 2022, 7:18 am There is even a board member here with a Zoroastrian name - Artaxerxes but the less said on that the better.
That Zoroastrians would’ve had the gosple wouldn’t surprise me. There is No doubt that there were more people than those in the Bible that had the gospel.

Please explain your comment above..

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Niemand
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Niemand »

DesertWonderer2 wrote: September 11th, 2022, 11:14 am
Niemand wrote: March 23rd, 2022, 7:18 am There is even a board member here with a Zoroastrian name - Artaxerxes but the less said on that the better.
That Zoroastrians would’ve had the gosple wouldn’t surprise me. There is No doubt that there were more people than those in the Bible that had the gospel.

Please explain your comment above..
It was a reference to a board poster called Artaxerxes, who appears to be a sock puppet of Atticus or vice versa.

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abijah
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by abijah »

in ch 45 isaiah's language starts to take on certain manichean, zoroastrian vibes. which would make sense, since the person being addressed is cyrus who would've worshipped the persian god ahura mazda.

edit: http://abarim-publications.blogspot.com ... a.html?m=1 somewhat interesting article i just skimmed

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Niemand
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Niemand »

Image

There are aspects of Zoroaster's life which resemble Christ, and there was a mutual influence between Zoroastrianism and Judaism , but this version "improves" things up a little too much.
varnaj42 wrote: May 19th, 2023, 8:37 am True. There are many religions which reflect, especially, the tenants of the three so called Abrahamic brands. In Zoroastrianism, for instance, which was already ancient when Jesus walked the Earth, has, as a part of it's traditions, stories of a prophet being the son of God who is born of a virgin, lives teaches then is murdered and finally raises from the dead three days later. And why not?
viewtopic.php?p=1386836#p1386836

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My thread on a bizarre Middle Eastern sect and their beliefs who have been heavily persecuted by Muslims, and appear to have been influenced by Islam. Are the Yezidis of the Middle East an ancient Satanist group or a lost Jewish tribe? And what is the connection between their religion and today's rainbow flag? Is this strange group simply misunderstood?
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The Ethiopian canon. This includes brief info on the books of Sinodos, Ethiopian Clement, Ethiopian Covenant, and Didascalia as well as a list of other works in the canon.
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Ymarsakar
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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by Ymarsakar »

The scythians and the samaritans which sound liek sarmatians were also steppe barbarian tribes. They migrated around the same areas as khazaria.

The persians also partially came from steppe horseback riding culture.

This region seems to have been a hotbed of satan aka ahriman fighting vanu or the good angels, based on georgia s testimony. Satan had a great influence in the west and the middle east and developed weapons in human tribes to conquer the east. Which the loyalist angels had their favored civilizations.

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Re: Was Zoroaster a lost prophet of God?

Post by varnaj42 »

My area of expertise is regarding the arrangement and operation of the various spiritual worlds. Of ancient Earthly religions I know little besides that they existed. I have certain opinions about Satanism however. I am slow to say that, just because a religious sect was small, based on Earth worship and obscure that Satan was involved.

Was Zoroaster a prophet of God? Who knows but I am certain that he was a man of his times and that God has been with mankind since the very first time human beings set foot on this planet and that was much further back than the pre-flood times. And why could he not have been inspired by God?

Regarding the Muslims I do know that they had for a long time had the Jews and later the Christians for neighbors. Never did the people of the deserts adopt either of those, preferring, as they did, their own pagan gods and rites. The Arabic peoples, who were cousins, after all, to the Jews, could only be brought together under a single banner by one of their own. This is the way it was and perhaps still is. Each tribe in those days was a law unto themselves. Then Mohammad came along and was successful where Jews and Christians had failed. When reading the Koran it is important to remember the times and the peoples which gave that set of teachings to us.

The peoples of the desert were warlike by nature. This is reflected in the Koran. One thing is certain and that is that there is only one God of consequence for our world. The wise man and woman will learn to look beyond the superficials and find the enduring truths which are so often hidden.

We all have opinions of course. Mine include the admonishion that we err greatly when we insist that another man must leave his culture behind and join ours or risk an unfulfilling after life. Our heavenly rewards are not based on beliefs but by actions while alive.

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