LDS Freedom Forum

The covenants God made with Enoch and Noah are interesting.

“And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant, ​which I made unto thy father Enoch; that, when men should keep all my commandments, Zion should again come on the earth, the city of Enoch which I have caught up unto myself.​
​​​22 ​​And this is mine everlasting covenant, that when thy posterity shall embrace the truth, and look upward, then shall Zion look downward, and all the heavens shall shake with gladness, and the earth shall tremble with joy;​
​​​23 ​​And the general assembly of the church of the firstborn shall come down out of heaven, and possess the earth, and shall have place until the end come. And this is mine everlasting covenant, which I made with thy father Enoch.​“
Genesis 9:21-23 JST

Until enough people “embrace the truth and look upward” Zion will not come.
To me that means that we should let go of false traditions and embrace the pure doctrine that Jesus taught- Faith, Repentance, baptism, baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost, calling and election, etc.

What does that mean to you?

He chose the tribe of Judah, Mount Zion, which He loved,”
Zion: “It is the city of David”
Mt. Zion is synonymous with Mt. Moriah, the site of the Temple.

A hebrew Psalm of Zion .......
"By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song;
and they that wasted us required of us mirth,
saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.
How shall we sing the LORD'S song in a strange land?
If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.
If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth;
if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy."

The Israel Declaration of Independence:

"The Land of Israel was the birthplace of the Jewish people. Here their spiritual, religious and political identity was shaped. Here they first attained to statehood, created cultural values of national and universal significance and gave to the world the eternal Book of Books.
After being forcibly exiled from their land, the people kept faith with it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it and for the restoration in it of their political freedom.
Impelled by this historic and traditional attachment, Jews strove in every successive generation to re-establish themselves in their ancient homeland. In recent decades they returned in their masses."

Being gathered in by the hand of God their Redeemer, to prepare them for His return, yes the very living temple of the God of Israel shall stand in Jerusalem, Christ Jesus Himself.
And all nations shall flow unto Him, every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that He is Lord..................

The scattered tribes of Israel are gathering to their forefathers land of Israel..................
The tribes of Judah, Levi the priestly tribe, the tribe of Benjamin and also the remnants of the ten tribes that adhered to the Kingdom of Judah and the Temple at Jerusalem, the last of which exiles came from the North countries of the soviet block when the Soviet Empire collasped...........

Israel is home, Zion is being prepared for the great return of the God of Israel.............

The House of Judah was blessed by God above all the sons of Jacob
"Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise; thy father’s children shall bow down before thee."

When Ephraim rebelled against God, Judah remained faithfull, and from the House of Judah sprang Salvation It was the womb of a daughter of Judah that gave birth to Jesus and it was the faithfull remnant of Judah that took His gospel message to the four corners of the earth..........

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2022, 7:13 am The covenants God made with Enoch and Noah are interesting.

“And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant, ​which I made unto thy father Enoch; that, when men should keep all my commandments, Zion should again come on the earth, the city of Enoch which I have caught up unto myself.​
​​​22 ​​And this is mine everlasting covenant, that when thy posterity shall embrace the truth, and look upward, then shall Zion look downward, and all the heavens shall shake with gladness, and the earth shall tremble with joy;​
​​​23 ​​And the general assembly of the church of the firstborn shall come down out of heaven, and possess the earth, and shall have place until the end come. And this is mine everlasting covenant, which I made with thy father Enoch.​“
Genesis 9:21-23 JST

Until enough people “embrace the truth and look upward” Zion will not come.
To me that means that we should let go of false traditions and embrace the pure doctrine that Jesus taught- Faith, Repentance, baptism, baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost, calling and election, etc.

What does that mean to you?

The fulness of the gospel was restored, then subsequently rejected by most. There will be hardly anyone left when the more righteous part of is prepared to receive Zion from above.

So maybe step one is to figure out what “stand in holy places means.” I was looking into that last night and “stand” means to “make or be firm.” I’m fairly certain this is referring to your bodily temple and the holy place where you sacrifice your will in order to commune with God.

The abomination of desolation is *already* encroaching on the holy places of so many. We cannot even know how much of people’s will is given over to the dark side through sorcery, already. How much communion do they have with evil? ...Changing their sexual preferences, making them act horridly, keeping them in a sort of drugged up slumber. That is the sickness - never something like “Covid”

D&C 45
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;
29 But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.
30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.
32 But my disciples shall stand in holy places, and shall not be moved; but among the wicked, men shall lift up their voices and curse God and die.

Jesus loved Judas, knowing everything about him. If we learn that lesson alone, and are able to live it, Zion cannot be withheld from us.

Original_Intent wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2022, 10:15 am Jesus loved Judas, knowing everything about him. If we learn that lesson alone, and are able to live it, Zion cannot be withheld from us.

I don't think Jesus loves wicked . . . I thinkhe allows grace for now to the wicked. . . but love . . .pretty strong word when refering to the Lord . . . I think the Lord's love defined in the scriptures . . . including the ways that one wouldn't be loved by the Lord.

We talk of Zion as a place, thought it was the "pure in heart"? If so, then it/is has always been here, would it not be? I don't think you can have a Zion people or Zion place again until either Jesus returns and Satan is bound or some how people are forced to be fully separated from non-believers in some terrible war or war-like environment. Otherwise, it is fleeting and distributed with those who are true believers, but I don't ever think Zion comes down from heaven, perhaps the principles or power to establish but it must be built up from the righteous.

Now talk about the "City of Zion" or "nation", perhaps that is more specific and possible, but Zion seems like a "concept" or "framework" with many parts within the framework, like saying "the gospel" which is multi-faceted, which really just means "the good news".

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2022, 10:11 pm We talk of Zion as a place, thought it was the "pure in heart"? If so, then it/is has always been here, would it not be? I don't think you can have a Zion people or Zion place again until either Jesus returns and Satan is bound or some how people are forced to be fully separated from non-believers in some terrible war or war-like environment. Otherwise, it is fleeting and distributed with those who are true believers, but I don't ever think Zion comes down from heaven, perhaps the principles or power to establish but it must be built up from the righteous.

Now talk about the "City of Zion" or "nation", perhaps that is more specific and possible, but Zion seems like a "concept" or "framework" with many parts within the framework, like saying "the gospel" which is multi-faceted, which really just means "the good news".

In the scripture from my post above, the Lord is speaking to Noah and makes a covenant with him.
“Zion should again come on the earth, the city of Enoch which I have caught up unto myself.​“
So from this, Zion is the city of Enoch that comes down out of heaven and returns to the earth.
The people who are pure in heart are a part of that city, Zion….either on the earth now or waiting to come down.

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 24th, 2022, 5:57 am

TheDuke wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2022, 10:11 pm We talk of Zion as a place, thought it was the "pure in heart"? If so, then it/is has always been here, would it not be? I don't think you can have a Zion people or Zion place again until either Jesus returns and Satan is bound or some how people are forced to be fully separated from non-believers in some terrible war or war-like environment. Otherwise, it is fleeting and distributed with those who are true believers, but I don't ever think Zion comes down from heaven, perhaps the principles or power to establish but it must be built up from the righteous.

Now talk about the "City of Zion" or "nation", perhaps that is more specific and possible, but Zion seems like a "concept" or "framework" with many parts within the framework, like saying "the gospel" which is multi-faceted, which really just means "the good news".

In the scripture from my post above, the Lord is speaking to Noah and makes a covenant with him.
“Zion should again come on the earth, the city of Enoch which I have caught up unto myself.​“
So from this, Zion is the city of Enoch that comes down out of heaven and returns to the earth.
The people who are pure in heart are a part of that city, Zion….either on the earth now or waiting to come down.

Enochs Zion will most definitely, physically return to the place it left from, (gulf of Mexico, according to one or two of the old pioneers contemporary with Joseph).
But, not until there is a people here, prepared to receive Enoch and his people. Which is what this OMAS/Servant does, prepare a people that will be of "one heart and one mind and no poor among them." And they will build a new Zion below in preparation for the return of the Zion above .

And Righteousness and truth will I cause to sweep the Earth as with a flood, to gather out mine own elect from the four quarters of the Earth, unto a place which I shall prepare; (Independence, Jackson county, MO.) an holy City, (Zion, the New Jerusalem) that my people may gird up their loins, and be looking forth for the time of my coming; for there shall be my tabernacle, and it shall be called Zion, a New Jerusalem.

And the Lord said unto Enoch, then shalt thou and all thy City meet them there; and we will receive them into our bosom; and they shall see us, And we will fall upon their necks, and they shall fall upon our necks, and we will kiss each other and there shall be mine abode, and it shall be Zion which shall come forth out of all the creations which I have made; and for the space of a thousand years shall the Earth shall rest.

This was what God was doing through Joseph, trying to prepare a people to be of one heart and one mind, but as a whole, we have miserably failed. As look at us today, saturated in the ways of Babylon. But there is a day coming in the which the people or rather a repentant remnant will rally to the cause and implement this new order of things, through this OMAS/DK. (The Shepard, the stone of Isreal?)

Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:

23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:

24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)

25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

I believe that the above mentioned "Stone of Isreal" is this Servant/OMAS, that saves all Isreal just as His father Joseph saved the house of his father Isreal. A type and a shadow of the latter days. And it is through Ephraim that this blessing is realized, it is Ephriam, who took his father Joseph's place and became Israel's firstborn. Ephraim and Mannassah, (the remnant of Jacob) together, build this New Jerusalem/Zion in Independance, MO.
It will look and act nothing at all like the joke of the so-called Zion we think we have today in mormondom.

That is what brings Zion from above, a people, cleansed and pure in heart, living the fulness of the everlasting gospel, temporally and spiritually of one heart and one mind, having all things, physically and spiritually in common, and NO POOR AMONG THEM, as all will be voluntarily equal. The financial Babylonian spirit of every man for himself, building up his own "spread" will be completely done away with, as those that are left will be glad to love one another as ones own self. Happy day, happy day.

Our system today, go to school, learn a trade, learn a "career" learn to traffic, learn to gamble, learn to speculate, learn to buy and sell, save for our retirement, etc, is all mostly from hell itself. The complete opposite of Zion.

I see the Zion spoken of is a city to return, ok. I don't think there is any evidence in scripture that says the city is physical and contains lots of rocks and came from the ocean. That just doesn't make sense to me. More like the people were taken and continued to be taken occasionally after that, but not their shelter or ground around them.

Collectively receiving the Spirit in greater and greater abundance, until the perfect day. Of course, it must be received individually, as laid out in the doctrine of Christ.