Artaxerxes wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2022, 6:06 pm
Being There wrote: ↑March 23rd, 2022, 5:57 pm
Artaxerxes wrote: ↑March 22nd, 2022, 12:34 pm
InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑March 22nd, 2022, 12:29 pm
You still misunderstand what Alma is saying. He is simply saying that all revelation comes via the Holy Spirit. Whether that's a vision, an actual visitation, or hearing the words of heavenly messengers, etc. The Holy Ghost is the mechanism by which revelation comes about. The fruits of a prophet are the
evidences that they are indeed not just men saying words. What
evidences have they been able to show us like those prophets in the scriptures?
This is what Christ directs us to look for.
The evidence is the Spirit of Revelation, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters
Actually,
The evidence is -
the Spirit of Prophecy, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters.
and the leaders of the church don't have it.
They don't have anything.
"the spirit of prophecy"
quote
"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy."
not just listen to nice talks
If Jesus himself has said -
3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."
Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?
"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words;
for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part
"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).
As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is
and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.
The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.
As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy.
We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:
"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words;
for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4)
All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!
When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?
Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.
The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?
Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness.
If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."
end quote
You: "Why don't they quote Isaiah?!??"
Reality:
Screenshot_20220323-170118.png
I know it's hard, but reading things helps. I suppose underlining and holding might be a substitute for facts for sine people, but I'll stick it out in reality, thanks.
reality ! lol.
no, I think you're delusional, and confused; as Isaiah says.
I know reality is hard for you,
but this is more like reality.
I think they forgot to quote in Isaiah the most important parts;
you know; the parts that are all through Isaiah - referring to them -
The Drunkards of Ephraim - (church leaders) exposing them for who and what they really are.
Isaiah 28 is all about - The Drunkards of Ephraim
Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12).
Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.
----------------------------------------------------
Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (mostly the leaders of the church)
Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
https://www.isaiahexplained.com/commentary/28
I find it absurd that some, (the "all is well in Zion" crowd ) can say that Isaiah 28 has nothing to do with the church,
while the church itself says that Isaiah 29 does.
quote
"First we must note here that Isaiah is speaking to "the drunkards of Ephraim”.
There is no question that the Latter-Day Saints refer to themselves as “Ephraim” and there is no question that the Church teaches that the very next chapter of Isaiah (chapter 29) refers to our day or the coming forth of the Church, and the Book of Mormon. Therefore, it would seem quite logical that Isaiah 28 would also refer to Ephraim of our day."
taken from: LDS Seminary Student Study Guide
"Isaiah 29 is one place in the Bible where the Book of Mormon is referred to, even though it is not mentioned by name.
As you read this chapter, look for prophecies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the impact this book will have on the world."
If you want a big wake up call please read and study the 28th chapter of Isaiah,
it will reveal that every word applies to our church in these days
and to no other people.
Isaiah cites that this people would be given "precept upon precept;
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little."
These identical words, were used by the Prophet Joseph Smith among his closing instructions
to the latter day saints, warning us to go forward not backward. D.C.128:21-22 ; 2Nephi 28:30
That's where the Lord has laid a trap for us.
Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."
1 Woe to the garlands of glory
of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.
Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59),
each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse.
Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment. Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths,
the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today. Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).
"Isaiah's prophecy concerning Ephraim consists mostly of censure.
Ephraim lives in the past, acting as if former glories were current ones: “Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine” (Isaiah 28:1).
The king of Assyria—a new Flood (Isaiah 8:7–8)—will invade Ephraim’s land:
*** 2.“My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down, or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters,
he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.
The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot”(Isaiah 28:2–3)."
The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).
A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last. Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).(Bold & Italics mine)
Isaiah 28
7 These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink:priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement.
As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12). Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.
We are still satisfied with the milk portions - the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.
9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,
those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there.
Although Jehovah wants to give his people “instruction” and “revelation,” they are but babes and sucklings who haven’t developed far enough to digest more than milk: “Everyone who uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe” (Hebrews 5:13). Ephraim’s mode of learning is still “line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little” (saw lasaw saw lasaw qaw laqaw qaw laqaw ze‘ir sam ze‘ir sam). Assonance and alliteration parody their rote method of learning that consists of parroting back what their leaders teach.
13 So to them the word of Jehovah remained:
Line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there, that,
persisting, they might lapse into stumbling
and break themselves,
become ensnared and be taken captive.
Instead of receiving a greater portion of the “word of Jehovah” through divine revelation, the people of Ephraim remain ensconced in its lesser version as that is all they know. The end result is their ruination: “Sanctify Jehovah of Hosts, making him your fear, him your awe. And [to you] he will be a sanctuary, but to the two houses of Israel a stumbling block or obstructing rock, and a snare, catching unawares the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Many will stumble into them, and when they fall shall be broken, and when they become ensnared shall be taken captive” (Isaiah 8:13-15; cf. 5:13; 42:18-25).
---------------
Isaiah 3
12 As for my people, babes subject them; women wield authority over them.
O my people, your leaders mislead you, abolishing your traditional ways.
"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54297&p=1144743&hil ... d#p1144743
Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (church leaders)
Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55396&p=1037704&hil ... h#p1037704