Catholic nuncio gets it right. When will the Mormon leadership?

[InfoWarrior82]

Nice attempt at gaslighting. I give you a 4/10. Good effort, but lacks conviction.

https://www.bitchute.com/search/?query= ... kind=video

https://www.bitchute.com/search/?query= ... kind=video

Are you going to deny your eyes and ears? You can scroll for hours and hours and hours.






You literally just posted examples of the average personal revelation experience that anyone can have on any given day.


What's more, when it comes to prophecy... President Nelson said during GC that he had no idea a pandemic was coming. Which is it? Did he have prior knowledge, or did he not?

I know that there are people making money from lying about the vax. That doesn't particularly trouble me.

I think you misunderstand what it is to be led by the spirit. As Nephi described "I was led by the Spirit, not knowing beforehand the things which I should do."

Your response to Nephi would be "Well, which is it? Did the spirit tell you where to go or not?" The answer is, of course, that he was directed what to do. That's exactly what happened with Pres. Nelson. He was directed, but didn't know everything, which is exactly what happens to all prophets.

But again, everything a prophet does can be explained away. People explain away the BoM, angelic visitations, and everything else. None of it will ever prove that someone is a prophet. That will ONLY come from the spirit. That's it.

You think people are making money about lying about their dead loved ones? What's the lie? That they died? That they had adverse reactions? You are out of your mind.


Nephi learned to trust the Holy Spirit that he was already familiar with. Once again you are taking scriptures out of context. Nephi said this AFTER the Lord had spoken to him. AFTER he had seen an angel of the Lord. These are the evidences and fruits of a true prophet of God.

If you're going to use the scriptures to support your arguments, please know your scriptures first.

You think that people can only trust the Spirit after they've seen an angel? That's.... something.

Silly silly. No, you still don't get it.


Why did Christ want us to judge fruits of men who claimed to be prophets?


So that we will not be deceived. It is VERY easy to be deceived by feeling alone.

We have to examine the fruits of these men as we pray about them. The fruits are what they produce. Are they missing? Are they good? Are they corrupt? Prophets are supposed to produce quotes, or revelation from the Lord Himself. Prophets are supposed to heal the sick, raise the dead, and do many miraculous things. Prophets are supposed to stand before wicked men and women and preach to them in person, calling out their sins. Prophets are not supposed to bow to the world and make satanic agreements. Prophets are supposed to tell us what WILL happen in the near future so that we can KNOW that they are sent from God when it comes to pass.

We are supposed to trust that same spirit that has been hand in hand with the good fruit produced by true prophets of God.

[Artaxerxes]

I know that there are people making money from lying about the vax. That doesn't particularly trouble me.

I think you misunderstand what it is to be led by the spirit. As Nephi described "I was led by the Spirit, not knowing beforehand the things which I should do."

Your response to Nephi would be "Well, which is it? Did the spirit tell you where to go or not?" The answer is, of course, that he was directed what to do. That's exactly what happened with Pres. Nelson. He was directed, but didn't know everything, which is exactly what happens to all prophets.

But again, everything a prophet does can be explained away. People explain away the BoM, angelic visitations, and everything else. None of it will ever prove that someone is a prophet. That will ONLY come from the spirit. That's it.

You think people are making money about lying about their dead loved ones? What's the lie? That they died? That they had adverse reactions? You are out of your mind.


Nephi learned to trust the Holy Spirit that he was already familiar with. Once again you are taking scriptures out of context. Nephi said this AFTER the Lord had spoken to him. AFTER he had seen an angel of the Lord. These are the evidences and fruits of a true prophet of God.

If you're going to use the scriptures to support your arguments, please know your scriptures first.

You think that people can only trust the Spirit after they've seen an angel? That's.... something.

Silly silly. No, you still don't get it.


Why did Christ want us to judge fruits of men who claimed to be prophets?


So that we will not be deceived. It is VERY easy to be deceived by feeling alone.

We have to examine the fruits of these men as we pray about them. The fruits are what they produce. Are they missing? Are they good? Are they corrupt? Prophets are supposed to produce quotes, or revelation from the Lord Himself. Prophets are supposed to heal the sick, raise the dead, and do many miraculous things. Prophets are supposed to stand before wicked men and women and preach to them in person, calling out their sins. Prophets are not supposed to bow to the world and make satanic agreements. Prophets are supposed to tell us what WILL happen in the near future so that we can KNOW that they are sent from God when it comes to pass.

We are supposed to trust that same spirit that has been hand in hand with the good fruit produced by true prophets of God.

No. Physical evidence is a way to BEGIN to look into something. It is a preparatory to the certainty of a spiritual witness. Jesus absolutely was not denigrating the holy spirit the way you do. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit would tea h us all things. That's what matters.

All of the things you mentioned can be faked and dismissed, as you have dismissed RMN's prophetic actions leading up to the lockdowns. If claiming to heal the sick was enough, then everyone would follow Benny Hinn. But we all reject him as a fraud, and with good cause. Because the ONLY thing that matters is the spirit.

Was Joseph Smith known for the miraculous things you claim? Was he known as a faith healer or raising the dead or other things? Or did he, instead, keep most of his most miraculous experiences secret?

[InfoWarrior82]

You think people are making money about lying about their dead loved ones? What's the lie? That they died? That they had adverse reactions? You are out of your mind.


Nephi learned to trust the Holy Spirit that he was already familiar with. Once again you are taking scriptures out of context. Nephi said this AFTER the Lord had spoken to him. AFTER he had seen an angel of the Lord. These are the evidences and fruits of a true prophet of God.

If you're going to use the scriptures to support your arguments, please know your scriptures first.

You think that people can only trust the Spirit after they've seen an angel? That's.... something.

Silly silly. No, you still don't get it.


Why did Christ want us to judge fruits of men who claimed to be prophets?


So that we will not be deceived. It is VERY easy to be deceived by feeling alone.

We have to examine the fruits of these men as we pray about them. The fruits are what they produce. Are they missing? Are they good? Are they corrupt? Prophets are supposed to produce quotes, or revelation from the Lord Himself. Prophets are supposed to heal the sick, raise the dead, and do many miraculous things. Prophets are supposed to stand before wicked men and women and preach to them in person, calling out their sins. Prophets are not supposed to bow to the world and make satanic agreements. Prophets are supposed to tell us what WILL happen in the near future so that we can KNOW that they are sent from God when it comes to pass.

We are supposed to trust that same spirit that has been hand in hand with the good fruit produced by true prophets of God.

No. Physical evidence is a way to BEGIN to look into something. It is a preparatory to the certainty of a spiritual witness. Jesus absolutely was not denigrating the holy spirit the way you do. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit would tea h us all things. That's what matters.

All of the things you mentioned can be faked and dismissed, as you have dismissed RMN's prophetic actions leading up to the lockdowns. If claiming to heal the sick was enough, then everyone would follow Benny Hinn. But we all reject him as a fraud, and with good cause. Because the ONLY thing that matters is the spirit.

Was Joseph Smith known for the miraculous things you claim? Was he known as a faith healer or raising the dead or other things? Or did he, instead, keep most of his most miraculous experiences secret?

Yes, you're starting to finally get it. (I think)

Fruits are the necessary prerequisite in making judgements of men who claim to be prophets of God. (Are they missing? Are they good? Are they corrupt?)

If they are missing, it is a non-starter. Bam. It's over. They're not prophets of God.

If they are good, then move forward, try the Lord in these things. The truth will be made manifest by the Holy Ghost.

If they are corrupt, they can be dismissed. They are not prophets of God.



Question for you: Why do you think President Woodruff was the last president of the church to receive a literal word-for-word revelation from Jesus Christ?

[Artaxerxes]

You think that people can only trust the Spirit after they've seen an angel? That's.... something.

Silly silly. No, you still don't get it.


Why did Christ want us to judge fruits of men who claimed to be prophets?


So that we will not be deceived. It is VERY easy to be deceived by feeling alone.

We have to examine the fruits of these men as we pray about them. The fruits are what they produce. Are they missing? Are they good? Are they corrupt? Prophets are supposed to produce quotes, or revelation from the Lord Himself. Prophets are supposed to heal the sick, raise the dead, and do many miraculous things. Prophets are supposed to stand before wicked men and women and preach to them in person, calling out their sins. Prophets are not supposed to bow to the world and make satanic agreements. Prophets are supposed to tell us what WILL happen in the near future so that we can KNOW that they are sent from God when it comes to pass.

We are supposed to trust that same spirit that has been hand in hand with the good fruit produced by true prophets of God.

No. Physical evidence is a way to BEGIN to look into something. It is a preparatory to the certainty of a spiritual witness. Jesus absolutely was not denigrating the holy spirit the way you do. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit would tea h us all things. That's what matters.

All of the things you mentioned can be faked and dismissed, as you have dismissed RMN's prophetic actions leading up to the lockdowns. If claiming to heal the sick was enough, then everyone would follow Benny Hinn. But we all reject him as a fraud, and with good cause. Because the ONLY thing that matters is the spirit.

Was Joseph Smith known for the miraculous things you claim? Was he known as a faith healer or raising the dead or other things? Or did he, instead, keep most of his most miraculous experiences secret?

Yes, you're starting to finally get it. (I think)

Fruits are the necessary prerequisite in making judgements of men who claim to be prophets of God. (Are they missing? Are they good? Are they corrupt?)

If they are missing, it is a non-starter. Bam. It's over. They're not prophets of God.

If they are good, then move forward, try the Lord in these things. The truth will be made manifest by the Holy Ghost.

If they are corrupt, they can be dismissed. They are not prophets of God.



Question for you: Why do you think President Woodruff was the last president of the church to receive a literal word-for-word revelation from Jesus Christ?

No, nothing is a prerequisite. As I've stated many times, the ONLY thing that matters is the spirit.

As I've also already stated, I don't believe revelations are word-for-word. I don't think that's how the spirit works. I don't think it was word for word to Woodruff, or to Nelson. Both are given impressions and thoughts by the spirit. Sometimes prophets have chosen to put these revelations into words. I don't think that choice is significant.

[InfoWarrior82]

Silly silly. No, you still don't get it.


Why did Christ want us to judge fruits of men who claimed to be prophets?


So that we will not be deceived. It is VERY easy to be deceived by feeling alone.

We have to examine the fruits of these men as we pray about them. The fruits are what they produce. Are they missing? Are they good? Are they corrupt? Prophets are supposed to produce quotes, or revelation from the Lord Himself. Prophets are supposed to heal the sick, raise the dead, and do many miraculous things. Prophets are supposed to stand before wicked men and women and preach to them in person, calling out their sins. Prophets are not supposed to bow to the world and make satanic agreements. Prophets are supposed to tell us what WILL happen in the near future so that we can KNOW that they are sent from God when it comes to pass.

We are supposed to trust that same spirit that has been hand in hand with the good fruit produced by true prophets of God.

No. Physical evidence is a way to BEGIN to look into something. It is a preparatory to the certainty of a spiritual witness. Jesus absolutely was not denigrating the holy spirit the way you do. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit would tea h us all things. That's what matters.

All of the things you mentioned can be faked and dismissed, as you have dismissed RMN's prophetic actions leading up to the lockdowns. If claiming to heal the sick was enough, then everyone would follow Benny Hinn. But we all reject him as a fraud, and with good cause. Because the ONLY thing that matters is the spirit.

Was Joseph Smith known for the miraculous things you claim? Was he known as a faith healer or raising the dead or other things? Or did he, instead, keep most of his most miraculous experiences secret?

Yes, you're starting to finally get it. (I think)

Fruits are the necessary prerequisite in making judgements of men who claim to be prophets of God. (Are they missing? Are they good? Are they corrupt?)

If they are missing, it is a non-starter. Bam. It's over. They're not prophets of God.

If they are good, then move forward, try the Lord in these things. The truth will be made manifest by the Holy Ghost.

If they are corrupt, they can be dismissed. They are not prophets of God.



Question for you: Why do you think President Woodruff was the last president of the church to receive a literal word-for-word revelation from Jesus Christ?

No, nothing is a prerequisite. As I've stated many times, the ONLY thing that matters is the spirit.

As I've also already stated, I don't believe revelations are word-for-word. I don't think that's how the spirit works. I don't think it was word for word to Woodruff, or to Nelson. Both are given impressions and thoughts by the spirit. Sometimes prophets have chosen to put these revelations into words. I don't think that choice is significant.

Jesus Christ disagrees with you.


It's weird, because literally in you last post, you agreed with me... but now you're backtracking.



15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.




Also, you are wholly incorrect when you say that revelations from Jesus Christ are not word for word. That's just flat out wrong. All throughout the scriptures are instances of the literal words of the Lord brought to us by actual prophets. In case you don't believe me that President Woodruff received literal word-for-word revelations from Jesus Christ (or at least claimed to), here are the texts of those revelations you can read for yourself:

Wilford Woodruff's 1880 revelation:

https://historyofmormonism.com/2010/03/ ... evelation/
https://archive.is/F5vKy




Wilford Woodruff's 1889 revelation

https://zomarah.wordpress.com/2010/10/0 ... evelation/
https://archive.is/tGxvr



So now that you've been proven wrong, and as you read the literal words of Jesus Christ to Wilford Woodruff, my question still stands: Why do you think he was the last president of the church to receive such revelations?

[Being There]

But if this colossal fraud has been supported and disseminated by the media, it must be recognized that national and international health institutions, governments, magistrates, law enforcement agencies and the Catholic Hierarchy itself all share responsibility for the disaster – each in its own sphere by actively supporting or failing to oppose the narrative – a disaster that has affected billions of people in their health, their property, the exercise of their individual rights and even their very lives.

https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index. ... to-the-u-s

"Why can't God's messengers just say the things I already agree with?" is a perennial complaint and never a valid one.

lol. how ridiculous.

instead of trying to say that these members just want church leaders - to say -
what they want to hear - and with what they agree with -

it's more like - TBM like you, say:
"why can't all members,, just agree with church leaders and do whatever they say;"

"you know, because after all, these messengers, are so GREAT, and so above us,
and are SOOOOO inspired and receive SOOOOOOOO much revelation,
that we should all just blindly follow them and always agree with them
and believe everything they say, because it's from God."

lol.

Oh they've proven to be messengers alright, but not God's.
The messages they give, have been from who they serve - World leaders - satan's servants -
who they themselves have become.

[Artaxerxes]

No. Physical evidence is a way to BEGIN to look into something. It is a preparatory to the certainty of a spiritual witness. Jesus absolutely was not denigrating the holy spirit the way you do. Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit would tea h us all things. That's what matters.

All of the things you mentioned can be faked and dismissed, as you have dismissed RMN's prophetic actions leading up to the lockdowns. If claiming to heal the sick was enough, then everyone would follow Benny Hinn. But we all reject him as a fraud, and with good cause. Because the ONLY thing that matters is the spirit.

Was Joseph Smith known for the miraculous things you claim? Was he known as a faith healer or raising the dead or other things? Or did he, instead, keep most of his most miraculous experiences secret?

Yes, you're starting to finally get it. (I think)

Fruits are the necessary prerequisite in making judgements of men who claim to be prophets of God. (Are they missing? Are they good? Are they corrupt?)

If they are missing, it is a non-starter. Bam. It's over. They're not prophets of God.

If they are good, then move forward, try the Lord in these things. The truth will be made manifest by the Holy Ghost.

If they are corrupt, they can be dismissed. They are not prophets of God.



Question for you: Why do you think President Woodruff was the last president of the church to receive a literal word-for-word revelation from Jesus Christ?

No, nothing is a prerequisite. As I've stated many times, the ONLY thing that matters is the spirit.

As I've also already stated, I don't believe revelations are word-for-word. I don't think that's how the spirit works. I don't think it was word for word to Woodruff, or to Nelson. Both are given impressions and thoughts by the spirit. Sometimes prophets have chosen to put these revelations into words. I don't think that choice is significant.

Jesus Christ disagrees with you.


It's weird, because literally in you last post, you agreed with me... but now you're backtracking.



15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.




Also, you are wholly incorrect when you say that revelations from Jesus Christ are not word for word. That's just flat out wrong. All throughout the scriptures are instances of the literal words of the Lord brought to us by actual prophets. In case you don't believe me that President Woodruff received literal word-for-word revelations from Jesus Christ (or at least claimed to), here are the texts of those revelations you can read for yourself:

Wilford Woodruff's 1880 revelation:

https://historyofmormonism.com/2010/03/ ... evelation/
https://archive.is/F5vKy




Wilford Woodruff's 1889 revelation

https://zomarah.wordpress.com/2010/10/0 ... evelation/
https://archive.is/tGxvr



So now that you've been proven wrong, and as you read the literal words of Jesus Christ to Wilford Woodruff, my question still stands: Why do you think he was the last president of the church to receive such revelations?

No, you misunderstood me and Jesus. As I said, "Physical evidence is a way to BEGIN to look into something." In other words, seeing smoke will help you to know if there's fire. But if you already see the fire, why would you need to look for smoke?

As Jesus said, the Holy Spirit will teach us ALL things. Whether someone is a prophet is one of those important things.

My patriarchal blessing is written in words. And yet my patriarch said it didn't come to him as words. Weird, right?

That's why it makes sense for Joseph to have made corrections/additions to the D&C. He knew what he was trying to say. If he received things word for word, it would have been totally inappropriate for him to have made any changes whatsoever.

[Being There]

That man sounds like what a real prophet of God would be saying right now.

Instead, in our church, we get a steady regurgitation of quotes from one another and quoting ancient scriptures of which they have no understanding. They are wholly incapable of quoting the words of Christ to them because Christ does not speak to them. Is it too much to ask for a prophet to produce the fruits of a prophet?

They do. They tell us to repent and to have faith in Christ. The fact that you like what this other guy says doesn't mean he sounds like a prophet. It means you agree with him. That's not what makes someone a prophet.

Literally anyone can do that. I can do that. You can do that. But that does not make us prophets because WE do not produce the fruits Christ spoke about. Why do our church leaders not have these as well? Their resumes are looking pretty weak compared to literally any prophet we read about in the scriptures.

So then, what are they? Are they a different breed of prophet? A mini-prophet? Is there somewhere I can read the words of Christ where He introduced this new kind of prophet?

Literally anyone can say the things that are pleasing to your ears, yet you're here fawning over him because you like what he says.

"Behold, I say unto you they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. And now I do know of myself that they are true; for the Lord God hath made them manifest unto me by his Holy Spirit; and this is the spirit of revelation which is in me."

This is what I hear from them. That's what makes them prophets. Again, this thread is about people saying that they want to hear the Brethren say the same things Vigano say. Vigano doesn't claim to speak for God. He just says the things people on this forum agree with. That's not what we should be looking for in a messenger.

Literally anyone can say the things that are pleasing to your ears, yet you're here fawning over him because you like what he says.

you're right.
I think you're talking about RMN.


Those that have the spirit and know the spirit - like what Viganò says, because, ***
(unlike the Q15 - who don't have the spirit, but who are FULL of men's words and their precepts,
and just parrot each other, and pat each other on the back all the time),
*** they know the spirit when they hear it, and that he speaks the truth and by the Holy Spirit.
And THAT - is "what we should be looking for in a messenger.";
and not listening to those that don't have the "spirit of prophecy"; like RMN and his puppets.

"the spirit of prophecy"
viewtopic.php?p=1251409#p1251409

This is what I hear from them. That's what makes them prophets.

hear from them ? LDS leaders !
That's the point - we hear NOTHING from them;
absolutely NOTHING - that no matter how much you TBM try to justify them, and twist what they say,
NOTHING THEY SAY, could even come close to prophesying. and what a true prophet would be saying.

and sorry but, "That's NOT - what makes them prophets. "
Prophets prophesy - THAT'S - what makes them prophets,; and why they're called prophets.
RMN prophesies NOTHING.
He never has, and never will.

[Being There]

You misunderstand the quote by Alma the Younger, then. Alma didn't become a prophet simply by telling people that he felt the Holy Spirit. Again, literally anyone could do that. So, how do we prevent ourselves from being deceived by people that merely claim this? Jesus Christ gave us the way to detect a true prophet of God from a false one. He said you shall know them by their fruits.

Alma the Younger was telling you it was by the power of God that he was able to witness and perform mighty miracles. Today, we have men that tell us it was by the power of God that they are indeed prophets, but without the ability to perform mighty miracles.

Alma's resume of prophetic fruits is replete with many examples. Where are similar examples we can observe in today's leaders?

He said what the spirit of revelation is. I believe him.

Anyone can claim anything. The only bulwark against being deceived is the Holy Spirit. No claim can be better than that. Lots of people have claimed to heal people and whatever. Benny Hinn got quite a following from his "miracles."

Joseph Smith's ministry was never about miracles. The few he was involved with were not widely publicized. His ministry was about faith and repentance.

You are misquoting Alma. He does not mention miracles at all in Alma 5. He talks about being ordained and having the spirit of revelation confirm truths to him.

You should reread Alma 5. It is the model of a prophetic message, and it is the model the prophets follow today.

You still misunderstand what Alma is saying. He is simply saying that all revelation comes via the Holy Spirit. Whether that's a vision, an actual visitation, or hearing the words of heavenly messengers, etc. The Holy Ghost is the mechanism by which revelation comes about. The fruits of a prophet are the evidences that they are indeed not just men saying words. What evidences have they been able to show us like those prophets in the scriptures? This is what Christ directs us to look for.

The evidence is the Spirit of Revelation, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters

Actually,
The evidence is -
the "Spirit of Prophecy", as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters.

and the leaders of the church don't have it.
They don't have anything.

"the spirit of prophecy"

quote

"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy."
not just listen to nice talks

If Jesus himself has said -

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part

"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).

As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is
and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.

The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.

As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy.
We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4)

All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!

When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?

Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.

The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?

Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness.

If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."

end quote

[Artaxerxes]

He said what the spirit of revelation is. I believe him.

Anyone can claim anything. The only bulwark against being deceived is the Holy Spirit. No claim can be better than that. Lots of people have claimed to heal people and whatever. Benny Hinn got quite a following from his "miracles."

Joseph Smith's ministry was never about miracles. The few he was involved with were not widely publicized. His ministry was about faith and repentance.

You are misquoting Alma. He does not mention miracles at all in Alma 5. He talks about being ordained and having the spirit of revelation confirm truths to him.

You should reread Alma 5. It is the model of a prophetic message, and it is the model the prophets follow today.

You still misunderstand what Alma is saying. He is simply saying that all revelation comes via the Holy Spirit. Whether that's a vision, an actual visitation, or hearing the words of heavenly messengers, etc. The Holy Ghost is the mechanism by which revelation comes about. The fruits of a prophet are the evidences that they are indeed not just men saying words. What evidences have they been able to show us like those prophets in the scriptures? This is what Christ directs us to look for.

The evidence is the Spirit of Revelation, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters

Actually,
The evidence is -
the Spirit of Prophecy, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters.

and the leaders of the church don't have it.
They don't have anything.

"the spirit of prophecy"

quote

"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy."
not just listen to nice talks

If Jesus himself has said -

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part

"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).

As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is
and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.

The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.

As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy.
We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4)

All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!

When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?

Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.

The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?

Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness.

If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."

end quote

You: "Why don't they quote Isaiah?!??"

Reality:

Screenshot_20220323-170118.png (293.06 KiB) Viewed 136 times

I know it's hard, but reading things helps. I suppose underlining and holding might be a substitute for facts for sine people, but I'll stick it out in reality, thanks.

[Being There]

You still misunderstand what Alma is saying. He is simply saying that all revelation comes via the Holy Spirit. Whether that's a vision, an actual visitation, or hearing the words of heavenly messengers, etc. The Holy Ghost is the mechanism by which revelation comes about. The fruits of a prophet are the evidences that they are indeed not just men saying words. What evidences have they been able to show us like those prophets in the scriptures? This is what Christ directs us to look for.

The evidence is the Spirit of Revelation, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters

Actually,
The evidence is -
the Spirit of Prophecy, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters.

and the leaders of the church don't have it.
They don't have anything.

"the spirit of prophecy"

quote

"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy."
not just listen to nice talks

If Jesus himself has said -

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part

"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).

As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is
and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.

The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.

As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy.
We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4)

All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!

When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?

Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.

The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?

Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness.

If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."

end quote

You: "Why don't they quote Isaiah?!??"

Reality:
Screenshot_20220323-170118.png

I know it's hard, but reading things helps. I suppose underlining and holding might be a substitute for facts for sine people, but I'll stick it out in reality, thanks.

reality ! lol.
no, I think you're delusional, and confused; as Isaiah says.

I know reality is hard for you,
but this is more like reality.

I think they forgot to quote in Isaiah the most important parts;
you know; the parts that are all through Isaiah - referring to them -
The Drunkards of Ephraim - (church leaders) exposing them for who and what they really are.

Isaiah 28 is all about - The Drunkards of Ephraim

Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12).
Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.

----------------------------------------------------

Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (mostly the leaders of the church)

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
https://www.isaiahexplained.com/commentary/28


I find it absurd that some, (the "all is well in Zion" crowd ) can say that Isaiah 28 has nothing to do with the church,
while the church itself says that Isaiah 29 does.

quote
"First we must note here that Isaiah is speaking to "the drunkards of Ephraim”.
There is no question that the Latter-Day Saints refer to themselves as “Ephraim” and there is no question that the Church teaches that the very next chapter of Isaiah (chapter 29) refers to our day or the coming forth of the Church, and the Book of Mormon. Therefore, it would seem quite logical that Isaiah 28 would also refer to Ephraim of our day."

taken from: LDS Seminary Student Study Guide

"Isaiah 29 is one place in the Bible where the Book of Mormon is referred to, even though it is not mentioned by name.
As you read this chapter, look for prophecies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the impact this book will have on the world."

If you want a big wake up call please read and study the 28th chapter of Isaiah,
it will reveal that every word applies to our church in these days
and to no other people.
Isaiah cites that this people would be given "precept upon precept;
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little."
These identical words, were used by the Prophet Joseph Smith among his closing instructions
to the latter day saints, warning us to go forward not backward. D.C.128:21-22 ; 2Nephi 28:30

That's where the Lord has laid a trap for us.
Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."

1 Woe to the garlands of glory
of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59),
each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse.
Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment. Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths,
the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today. Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

"Isaiah's prophecy concerning Ephraim consists mostly of censure.
Ephraim lives in the past, acting as if former glories were current ones: “Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine” (Isaiah 28:1).
The king of Assyria—a new Flood (Isaiah 8:7–8)—will invade Ephraim’s land:

*** 2.“My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down, or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters,
he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot”(Isaiah 28:2–3)."

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).
A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last. Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).(Bold & Italics mine)

Isaiah 28

7 These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink:priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement.

As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12). Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.


We are still satisfied with the milk portions - the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,
those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there.

Although Jehovah wants to give his people “instruction” and “revelation,” they are but babes and sucklings who haven’t developed far enough to digest more than milk: “Everyone who uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe” (Hebrews 5:13). Ephraim’s mode of learning is still “line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little” (saw lasaw saw lasaw qaw laqaw qaw laqaw ze‘ir sam ze‘ir sam). Assonance and alliteration parody their rote method of learning that consists of parroting back what their leaders teach.

13 So to them the word of Jehovah remained:
Line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there, that,
persisting, they might lapse into stumbling
and break themselves,
become ensnared and be taken captive.

Instead of receiving a greater portion of the “word of Jehovah” through divine revelation, the people of Ephraim remain ensconced in its lesser version as that is all they know. The end result is their ruination: “Sanctify Jehovah of Hosts, making him your fear, him your awe. And [to you] he will be a sanctuary, but to the two houses of Israel a stumbling block or obstructing rock, and a snare, catching unawares the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Many will stumble into them, and when they fall shall be broken, and when they become ensnared shall be taken captive” (Isaiah 8:13-15; cf. 5:13; 42:18-25).

---------------
Isaiah 3
12 As for my people, babes subject them; women wield authority over them.
O my people, your leaders mislead you, abolishing your traditional ways.

"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54297&p=1144743&hil ... d#p1144743

Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (church leaders)
Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55396&p=1037704&hil ... h#p1037704

[Artaxerxes]

The evidence is the Spirit of Revelation, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters

Actually,
The evidence is -
the Spirit of Prophecy, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters.

and the leaders of the church don't have it.
They don't have anything.

"the spirit of prophecy"

quote

"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy."
not just listen to nice talks

If Jesus himself has said -

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part

"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).

As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is
and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.

The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.

As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy.
We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4)

All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!

When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?

Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.

The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?

Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness.

If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."

end quote

You: "Why don't they quote Isaiah?!??"

Reality:
Screenshot_20220323-170118.png

I know it's hard, but reading things helps. I suppose underlining and holding might be a substitute for facts for sine people, but I'll stick it out in reality, thanks.

reality ! lol.
no, I think you're delusional, and confused; as Isaiah says.

I know reality is hard for you,
but this is more like reality.

I think they forgot to quote in Isaiah the most important parts;
you know; the parts that are all through Isaiah - referring to them -
The Drunkards of Ephraim - (church leaders) exposing them for who and what they really are.

Isaiah 28 is all about - The Drunkards of Ephraim

Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12).
Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.

----------------------------------------------------

Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (mostly the leaders of the church)

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
https://www.isaiahexplained.com/commentary/28


I find it absurd that some, (the "all is well in Zion" crowd ) can say that Isaiah 28 has nothing to do with the church,
while the church itself says that Isaiah 29 does.

quote
"First we must note here that Isaiah is speaking to "the drunkards of Ephraim”.
There is no question that the Latter-Day Saints refer to themselves as “Ephraim” and there is no question that the Church teaches that the very next chapter of Isaiah (chapter 29) refers to our day or the coming forth of the Church, and the Book of Mormon. Therefore, it would seem quite logical that Isaiah 28 would also refer to Ephraim of our day."

taken from: LDS Seminary Student Study Guide

"Isaiah 29 is one place in the Bible where the Book of Mormon is referred to, even though it is not mentioned by name.
As you read this chapter, look for prophecies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the impact this book will have on the world."

If you want a big wake up call please read and study the 28th chapter of Isaiah,
it will reveal that every word applies to our church in these days
and to no other people.
Isaiah cites that this people would be given "precept upon precept;
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little."
These identical words, were used by the Prophet Joseph Smith among his closing instructions
to the latter day saints, warning us to go forward not backward. D.C.128:21-22 ; 2Nephi 28:30

That's where the Lord has laid a trap for us.
Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."

1 Woe to the garlands of glory
of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59),
each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse.
Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment. Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths,
the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today. Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

"Isaiah's prophecy concerning Ephraim consists mostly of censure.
Ephraim lives in the past, acting as if former glories were current ones: “Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine” (Isaiah 28:1).
The king of Assyria—a new Flood (Isaiah 8:7–8)—will invade Ephraim’s land:

*** 2.“My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down, or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters,
he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot”(Isaiah 28:2–3)."

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).
A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last. Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).(Bold & Italics mine)

Isaiah 28

7 These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink:priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement.

As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12). Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.


We are still satisfied with the milk portions - the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,
those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there.

Although Jehovah wants to give his people “instruction” and “revelation,” they are but babes and sucklings who haven’t developed far enough to digest more than milk: “Everyone who uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe” (Hebrews 5:13). Ephraim’s mode of learning is still “line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little” (saw lasaw saw lasaw qaw laqaw qaw laqaw ze‘ir sam ze‘ir sam). Assonance and alliteration parody their rote method of learning that consists of parroting back what their leaders teach.

13 So to them the word of Jehovah remained:
Line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there, that,
persisting, they might lapse into stumbling
and break themselves,
become ensnared and be taken captive.

Instead of receiving a greater portion of the “word of Jehovah” through divine revelation, the people of Ephraim remain ensconced in its lesser version as that is all they know. The end result is their ruination: “Sanctify Jehovah of Hosts, making him your fear, him your awe. And [to you] he will be a sanctuary, but to the two houses of Israel a stumbling block or obstructing rock, and a snare, catching unawares the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Many will stumble into them, and when they fall shall be broken, and when they become ensnared shall be taken captive” (Isaiah 8:13-15; cf. 5:13; 42:18-25).

---------------
Isaiah 3
12 As for my people, babes subject them; women wield authority over them.
O my people, your leaders mislead you, abolishing your traditional ways.

"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54297&p=1144743&hil ... d#p1144743

Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (church leaders)
Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55396&p=1037704&hil ... h#p1037704

"They don't quote Isaiah!!!!!!"

Yes they do.

"Well, they don't quote the part that I like it!!!"

tenor.gif (332.27 KiB) Viewed 92 times

[InfoWarrior82]

Actually,
The evidence is -
the Spirit of Prophecy, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters.

and the leaders of the church don't have it.
They don't have anything.

"the spirit of prophecy"

quote

"As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy."
not just listen to nice talks

If Jesus himself has said -

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

Why does our prophet and church leaders never talk about Isaiah or quote him ?
Could it be that they don't understand him ? and if they don't understand him, do they really have the spirit of prophecy ?

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part

"The scriptures warn us that in the last days there will be prophets who do not prophesy and seers who do not see (Isaiah 30:10). Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets and an abundance of men teaching their own precepts to get gain, so that even the very elect will be deceived (2 Nephi 26:29; JS Matthew 1:22).

As Latter-day Saints we must learn what a true prophet is
and we must learn to discern between true and false prophets lest we also be deceived.

The scriptures provide a standard by which we can all judge.
Simply put, a prophet must have the spirit of prophecy in order to be a true prophet. This is the sign.

As we watch General Conference we should look for the spirit of prophecy.
We should measure carefully what is being said. We should pray that those who we sustain as prophets will prophesy and speak prophetically because when prophets and seers, prophesy and see, they become a great benefit to their fellow man (Mosiah 8:18). This is the means whereby we can receive salvation.
If men who are called prophets do not have the spirit of prophecy we can know they are false prophets.
Nephi gives us an important bar by which we can measure:

"Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel,
and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy "
(2 Nephi 25:4)

All prophets will understand the words of Isaiah.
They will also share the testimony of the Savior and of Nephi and others that the words of Isaiah are great!

When’s the last time you heard an LDS prophet give a talk on the words of Isaiah in General Conference?
When Jesus came to the Nephites, He gave them the “commandment to search these things diligently; for great are the words of Isaiah.”
Do the servants of the Lord today emphasize this same commandment?

Today’s prophets write books such as: Counseling With Our Councils,
The Christmas Train, A Future As Bright As Your Faith, To The Rescue, Forget Me Not, and 21 Principles.

The above may be excellent topics,
but why do today’s LDS prophets not speak or write of Isaiah?
Why do they not rejoice in his words?
Why do they not explain what his words mean?
If these words are so great and so relevant to us in our day, why are the so called prophets
not using their “spirit of prophecy” in a way that would render Isaiah’s vital words easier to understand?

Is it possible that these prophets do not understand the words of Isaiah?
If so, can they be true prophets?
Jesus said “ALL who have the spirit of prophecy” will easily understand Isaiah’s words.
They will comprehend them in plainness.

If these prophets rely upon trained scholars to understand Isaiah,
would this be evidence that such men are not true prophets?
I leave that for you to judge."

end quote

You: "Why don't they quote Isaiah?!??"

Reality:
Screenshot_20220323-170118.png

I know it's hard, but reading things helps. I suppose underlining and holding might be a substitute for facts for sine people, but I'll stick it out in reality, thanks.

reality ! lol.
no, I think you're delusional, and confused; as Isaiah says.

I know reality is hard for you,
but this is more like reality.

I think they forgot to quote in Isaiah the most important parts;
you know; the parts that are all through Isaiah - referring to them -
The Drunkards of Ephraim - (church leaders) exposing them for who and what they really are.

Isaiah 28 is all about - The Drunkards of Ephraim

Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12).
Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.

----------------------------------------------------

Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (mostly the leaders of the church)

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
https://www.isaiahexplained.com/commentary/28


I find it absurd that some, (the "all is well in Zion" crowd ) can say that Isaiah 28 has nothing to do with the church,
while the church itself says that Isaiah 29 does.

quote
"First we must note here that Isaiah is speaking to "the drunkards of Ephraim”.
There is no question that the Latter-Day Saints refer to themselves as “Ephraim” and there is no question that the Church teaches that the very next chapter of Isaiah (chapter 29) refers to our day or the coming forth of the Church, and the Book of Mormon. Therefore, it would seem quite logical that Isaiah 28 would also refer to Ephraim of our day."

taken from: LDS Seminary Student Study Guide

"Isaiah 29 is one place in the Bible where the Book of Mormon is referred to, even though it is not mentioned by name.
As you read this chapter, look for prophecies of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the impact this book will have on the world."

If you want a big wake up call please read and study the 28th chapter of Isaiah,
it will reveal that every word applies to our church in these days
and to no other people.
Isaiah cites that this people would be given "precept upon precept;
precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little."
These identical words, were used by the Prophet Joseph Smith among his closing instructions
to the latter day saints, warning us to go forward not backward. D.C.128:21-22 ; 2Nephi 28:30

That's where the Lord has laid a trap for us.
Isaiah 28:13 "But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little;
that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken,
and snared, and taken."

1 Woe to the garlands of glory
of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59),
each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse.
Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment. Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths,
the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today. Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

"Isaiah's prophecy concerning Ephraim consists mostly of censure.
Ephraim lives in the past, acting as if former glories were current ones: “Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine” (Isaiah 28:1).
The king of Assyria—a new Flood (Isaiah 8:7–8)—will invade Ephraim’s land:

*** 2.“My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down, or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters,
he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot”(Isaiah 28:2–3)."

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2).
A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last. Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).(Bold & Italics mine)

Isaiah 28

7 These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink:priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit; no spot is without excrement.

As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12). Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.


We are still satisfied with the milk portions - the ABC portions of the gospel.
We will not accept the meat portions of the gospel.

9 Whom shall he give instruction?
Whom shall he enlighten with revelation?
Weanlings weaned from milk,
those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is but line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there.

Although Jehovah wants to give his people “instruction” and “revelation,” they are but babes and sucklings who haven’t developed far enough to digest more than milk: “Everyone who uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe” (Hebrews 5:13). Ephraim’s mode of learning is still “line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little” (saw lasaw saw lasaw qaw laqaw qaw laqaw ze‘ir sam ze‘ir sam). Assonance and alliteration parody their rote method of learning that consists of parroting back what their leaders teach.

13 So to them the word of Jehovah remained:
Line upon line, line upon line,
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
a trifle here, a trifle there, that,
persisting, they might lapse into stumbling
and break themselves,
become ensnared and be taken captive.

Instead of receiving a greater portion of the “word of Jehovah” through divine revelation, the people of Ephraim remain ensconced in its lesser version as that is all they know. The end result is their ruination: “Sanctify Jehovah of Hosts, making him your fear, him your awe. And [to you] he will be a sanctuary, but to the two houses of Israel a stumbling block or obstructing rock, and a snare, catching unawares the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Many will stumble into them, and when they fall shall be broken, and when they become ensnared shall be taken captive” (Isaiah 8:13-15; cf. 5:13; 42:18-25).

---------------
Isaiah 3
12 As for my people, babes subject them; women wield authority over them.
O my people, your leaders mislead you, abolishing your traditional ways.

"The leaders of these people have misled them, and those who are led are confused” (Isaiah 9:13–16).
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54297&p=1144743&hil ... d#p1144743

Isaiah 28 exposes the follies of the "Drunkards of Ephraim! " (church leaders)
Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55396&p=1037704&hil ... h#p1037704

"They don't quote Isaiah!!!!!!"

Yes they do.

"Well, they don't quote the part that I like it!!!"

tenor.gif

LDS church leaders have a basic understanding of some parts of Isaiah. The parts where Isaiah foretells the birth of Jesus and His atonement is strong. From there, it starts to drop off significantly. More so with the vineyard chapters. And virtually no understanding of the last days parts of Isaiah.