Catholic nuncio gets it right. When will the Mormon leadership?

[Artaxerxes]

Literally anyone can say the things that are pleasing to your ears, yet you're here fawning over him because you like what he says.

"Behold, I say unto you they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. And now I do know of myself that they are true; for the Lord God hath made them manifest unto me by his Holy Spirit; and this is the spirit of revelation which is in me."

This is what I hear from them. That's what makes them prophets. Again, this thread is about people saying that they want to hear the Brethren say the same things Vigano say. Vigano doesn't claim to speak for God. He just says the things people on this forum agree with. That's not what we should be looking for in a messenger.

Quoting well-known scripture does not make one a prophet of God. You know that. You're avoiding my question.

Where are the fruits of prophets in these men like unto the men in our scriptures? Why are they missing?

You misunderstand my post. I'm saying that the manner in which the prophets speak now IS the norm, as demonstrated by that scripture. The way they speak now IS how prophets preached, most of the time, in the BoM. You're making up a standard that the scriptures don't support.

They do have the fruits of prophets. You should read the scripture again.

You misunderstand the quote by Alma the Younger, then. Alma didn't become a prophet simply by telling people that he felt the Holy Spirit. Again, literally anyone could do that. So, how do we prevent ourselves from being deceived by people that merely claim this? Jesus Christ gave us the way to detect a true prophet of God from a false one. He said you shall know them by their fruits.

Alma the Younger was telling you it was by the power of God that he was able to witness and perform mighty miracles. Today, we have men that tell us it was by the power of God that they are indeed prophets, but without the ability to perform mighty miracles.

Alma's resume of prophetic fruits is replete with many examples. Where are similar examples we can observe in today's leaders?

He said what the spirit of revelation is. I believe him.

Anyone can claim anything. The only bulwark against being deceived is the Holy Spirit. No claim can be better than that. Lots of people have claimed to heal people and whatever. Benny Hinn got quite a following from his "miracles."

Joseph Smith's ministry was never about miracles. The few he was involved with were not widely publicized. His ministry was about faith and repentance.

You are misquoting Alma. He does not mention miracles at all in Alma 5. He talks about being ordained and having the spirit of revelation confirm truths to him.

You should reread Alma 5. It is the model of a prophetic message, and it is the model the prophets follow today.

[Serragon]

That man sounds like what a real prophet of God would be saying right now.

Instead, in our church, we get a steady regurgitation of quotes from one another and quoting ancient scriptures of which they have no understanding. They are wholly incapable of quoting the words of Christ to them because Christ does not speak to them. Is it too much to ask for a prophet to produce the fruits of a prophet?

They do. They tell us to repent and to have faith in Christ. The fact that you like what this other guy says doesn't mean he sounds like a prophet. It means you agree with him. That's not what makes someone a prophet.

At the time of Joseph's vision, nearly every Christian pastor taught the same thing. Yet God told Joseph that they were abominations because they drew near with words but not with their hearts.

So simply crying repentance isn't sufficient and never has been. How are our leaders today any different than the pastors at the time of Joseph? What evidence do we have that their hearts are aligned with God and not merely their words?

They were not all teaching the same, and they were not all teaching repentance. Repentance isn't a major part of Calvinism, which was a huge part of Christianity back then.

Why did he say they were an abomination?
“they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

You can pray to know things, right? I think their actions clearly show that their lives are dedicated to Christ, but if that's an important question for you, you can just ask.

I always see them teaching the commandments of God, and not the commandments of men. I expect that that's what we're going to hear at conference soon, as always.

This letter is obviously the philosophies of men. I know people here like it, but I want to hear the commandments of God preached to me.

He said that "All" their creeds were abominations and that "All" their professors were corrupt. Not just the Calvinists.

And you did not answer my question directly. What evidence do we have that our leaders today are any different than those who God labeled as corrupt? Your indirect answer was that I can pray about it, which is subjective. Should there not also be objective evidences as there has been all through history whenever a prophet of God is on the earth?

Only relying on subjective criteria is what lead to the confusion and corruption of Joseph's day. Most people confuse their own will for the Spirit, and without some objective evidence it is nearly impossible for the subjective to be measured or relied upon.

I disbelieve most people when they say things like "I know xxx is a prophet". What they really mean is "I feel xxx is a prophet". For most, there has simply been a feeling, not an actual witness. And often our feelings are self-serving.

So again .. how are our leaders today any different than the corrupt leaders with abominable creeds of Joseph's day? They all preached repentance. They all preached Christ. And they were all rejected by Him. Is there fruit today that testifies of our leaders being "special" witnesses of Christ?

[InfoWarrior82]

Quoting well-known scripture does not make one a prophet of God. You know that. You're avoiding my question.

Where are the fruits of prophets in these men like unto the men in our scriptures? Why are they missing?

You misunderstand my post. I'm saying that the manner in which the prophets speak now IS the norm, as demonstrated by that scripture. The way they speak now IS how prophets preached, most of the time, in the BoM. You're making up a standard that the scriptures don't support.

They do have the fruits of prophets. You should read the scripture again.

You misunderstand the quote by Alma the Younger, then. Alma didn't become a prophet simply by telling people that he felt the Holy Spirit. Again, literally anyone could do that. So, how do we prevent ourselves from being deceived by people that merely claim this? Jesus Christ gave us the way to detect a true prophet of God from a false one. He said you shall know them by their fruits.

Alma the Younger was telling you it was by the power of God that he was able to witness and perform mighty miracles. Today, we have men that tell us it was by the power of God that they are indeed prophets, but without the ability to perform mighty miracles.

Alma's resume of prophetic fruits is replete with many examples. Where are similar examples we can observe in today's leaders?

He said what the spirit of revelation is. I believe him.

Anyone can claim anything. The only bulwark against being deceived is the Holy Spirit. No claim can be better than that. Lots of people have claimed to heal people and whatever. Benny Hinn got quite a following from his "miracles."

Joseph Smith's ministry was never about miracles. The few he was involved with were not widely publicized. His ministry was about faith and repentance.

You are misquoting Alma. He does not mention miracles at all in Alma 5. He talks about being ordained and having the spirit of revelation confirm truths to him.

You should reread Alma 5. It is the model of a prophetic message, and it is the model the prophets follow today.

You still misunderstand what Alma is saying. He is simply saying that all revelation comes via the Holy Spirit. Whether that's a vision, an actual visitation, or hearing the words of heavenly messengers, etc. The Holy Ghost is the mechanism by which revelation comes about. The fruits of a prophet are the evidencethat they are indeed not just men saying words. What evidence have they been able to show us like those prophets in the scriptures? This is what Christ directs us to look for.

[Artaxerxes]

They do. They tell us to repent and to have faith in Christ. The fact that you like what this other guy says doesn't mean he sounds like a prophet. It means you agree with him. That's not what makes someone a prophet.

At the time of Joseph's vision, nearly every Christian pastor taught the same thing. Yet God told Joseph that they were abominations because they drew near with words but not with their hearts.

So simply crying repentance isn't sufficient and never has been. How are our leaders today any different than the pastors at the time of Joseph? What evidence do we have that their hearts are aligned with God and not merely their words?

They were not all teaching the same, and they were not all teaching repentance. Repentance isn't a major part of Calvinism, which was a huge part of Christianity back then.

Why did he say they were an abomination?
“they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

You can pray to know things, right? I think their actions clearly show that their lives are dedicated to Christ, but if that's an important question for you, you can just ask.

I always see them teaching the commandments of God, and not the commandments of men. I expect that that's what we're going to hear at conference soon, as always.

This letter is obviously the philosophies of men. I know people here like it, but I want to hear the commandments of God preached to me.

He said that "All" their creeds were abominations and that "All" their professors were corrupt. Not just the Calvinists.

And you did not answer my question directly. What evidence do we have that our leaders today are any different than those who God labeled as corrupt? Your indirect answer was that I can pray about it, which is subjective. Should there not also be objective evidences as there has been all through history whenever a prophet of God is on the earth?

Only relying on subjective criteria is what lead to the confusion and corruption of Joseph's day. Most people confuse their own will for the Spirit, and without some objective evidence it is nearly impossible for the subjective to be measured or relied upon.

I disbelieve most people when they say things like "I know xxx is a prophet". What they really mean is "I feel xxx is a prophet". For most, there has simply been a feeling, not an actual witness. And often our feelings are self-serving.

So again .. how are our leaders today any different than the corrupt leaders with abominable creeds of Joseph's day? They all preached repentance. They all preached Christ. And they were all rejected by Him. Is there fruit today that testifies of our leaders being "special" witnesses of Christ?

Calvinists were an example. Many churches denied that prayers could be answered; most denied the gifts of the spirit. There were lots of problems. As I told you already, they did not "all" preach repentance as you claim, and gave you an example of that.

I did tell you how you could know. It is not just the best way to know, but it is the only way: prayer. Nothing else will tell you. There are no satisfactory objective answers and there will never be.

You're always welcome to reject other people's witnesses. Everyone must obtain their own witness. The only fruit that matters on spiritual things, whether it's whether God exists, of Jesus is the Christ, or if RMN is a prophet, the ONLY thing that matters is the Spirit. Everything else is designed to be evidence to bring us to a place where the Spirit can give us that witness.

[Artaxerxes]

You misunderstand my post. I'm saying that the manner in which the prophets speak now IS the norm, as demonstrated by that scripture. The way they speak now IS how prophets preached, most of the time, in the BoM. You're making up a standard that the scriptures don't support.

They do have the fruits of prophets. You should read the scripture again.

You misunderstand the quote by Alma the Younger, then. Alma didn't become a prophet simply by telling people that he felt the Holy Spirit. Again, literally anyone could do that. So, how do we prevent ourselves from being deceived by people that merely claim this? Jesus Christ gave us the way to detect a true prophet of God from a false one. He said you shall know them by their fruits.

Alma the Younger was telling you it was by the power of God that he was able to witness and perform mighty miracles. Today, we have men that tell us it was by the power of God that they are indeed prophets, but without the ability to perform mighty miracles.

Alma's resume of prophetic fruits is replete with many examples. Where are similar examples we can observe in today's leaders?

He said what the spirit of revelation is. I believe him.

Anyone can claim anything. The only bulwark against being deceived is the Holy Spirit. No claim can be better than that. Lots of people have claimed to heal people and whatever. Benny Hinn got quite a following from his "miracles."

Joseph Smith's ministry was never about miracles. The few he was involved with were not widely publicized. His ministry was about faith and repentance.

You are misquoting Alma. He does not mention miracles at all in Alma 5. He talks about being ordained and having the spirit of revelation confirm truths to him.

You should reread Alma 5. It is the model of a prophetic message, and it is the model the prophets follow today.

You still misunderstand what Alma is saying. He is simply saying that all revelation comes via the Holy Spirit. Whether that's a vision, an actual visitation, or hearing the words of heavenly messengers, etc. The Holy Ghost is the mechanism by which revelation comes about. The fruits of a prophet are the evidences that they are indeed not just men saying words. What evidences have they been able to show us like those prophets in the scriptures? This is what Christ directs us to look for.

The evidence is the Spirit of Revelation, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters

[InfoWarrior82]

You misunderstand the quote by Alma the Younger, then. Alma didn't become a prophet simply by telling people that he felt the Holy Spirit. Again, literally anyone could do that. So, how do we prevent ourselves from being deceived by people that merely claim this? Jesus Christ gave us the way to detect a true prophet of God from a false one. He said you shall know them by their fruits.

Alma the Younger was telling you it was by the power of God that he was able to witness and perform mighty miracles. Today, we have men that tell us it was by the power of God that they are indeed prophets, but without the ability to perform mighty miracles.

Alma's resume of prophetic fruits is replete with many examples. Where are similar examples we can observe in today's leaders?

He said what the spirit of revelation is. I believe him.

Anyone can claim anything. The only bulwark against being deceived is the Holy Spirit. No claim can be better than that. Lots of people have claimed to heal people and whatever. Benny Hinn got quite a following from his "miracles."

Joseph Smith's ministry was never about miracles. The few he was involved with were not widely publicized. His ministry was about faith and repentance.

You are misquoting Alma. He does not mention miracles at all in Alma 5. He talks about being ordained and having the spirit of revelation confirm truths to him.

You should reread Alma 5. It is the model of a prophetic message, and it is the model the prophets follow today.

You still misunderstand what Alma is saying. He is simply saying that all revelation comes via the Holy Spirit. Whether that's a vision, an actual visitation, or hearing the words of heavenly messengers, etc. The Holy Ghost is the mechanism by which revelation comes about. The fruits of a prophet are the evidences that they are indeed not just men saying words. What evidences have they been able to show us like those prophets in the scriptures? This is what Christ directs us to look for.

The evidence is the Spirit of Revelation, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters

But what revelation are you referring to? Can we point to any words of Christ in these revelations? This is what I mean by evidence. There is none to observe.

Alma was saying that he witnessed evidence brought about THROUGH the Holy Spirit. Alma was able to recount word for word his experiences with revelation. He was able to quote the Angel. He was able to quote Jesus. He was able to perform miracles. These are the fruits of prophets. This is evidence.

You are simply saying "If you FEEL they are prophets because of their words, then that's all that is needed." This is not what Jesus Christ was saying in Matthew Chapter 7. He was concerned about deception and that there was a way to detect a true prophet from a false one. And that was by their fruits. What they produce. It is the evidence that Christ wants us to judge.


Here are 11 of the minimum requirements of the fruits of prophets:

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647974485


A. He will boldly claim that God [has] spoken to him.

B. Any man so claiming would be a dignified man with a dignified message; no table-jumping, no whisperings from the dead, no clairvoyance, but an intelligent statement of truth.

C. Any man claiming to be a prophet of God would declare his message without any fear and without making any weak concessions to public opinion.

D. If he were speaking for God, he could not make concessions although what he taught would be new and contrary to the accepted teachings of the day. A prophet bears witness to what he has seen and heard and seldom tries to make a case by argument. His message and not himself is important.

E. Such a man would speak in the name of the Lord, saying, “Thus saith the Lord,” as did Moses, Joshua, and others.

F. Such a man would predict future events in the name of the Lord, and they would come to pass, as did Isaiah and Ezekiel.

G. He would have not only an important message for his time but often a message for all future time, such as Daniel, Jeremiah, and others had.

H. He would have courage and faith enough to endure persecution and to give his life, if need be, for the cause he espoused, such as Peter, Paul, and others did.

I. Such a man would denounce wickedness fearlessly. He would generally be rejected or persecuted by the people of his time, but later generations, the descendants of his persecutors, would build monuments in his honor.

J. He would be able to do superhuman things, things that no man could do without God’s help. The consequence or result of his message and work would be convincing evidence of his prophetic calling. “By their fruits ye shall know them” [Matt. 7:20].

K. His teachings would be in strict conformity with scripture, and his words and his writings would become scripture. “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Pet. 1:21).

[Artaxerxes]

He said what the spirit of revelation is. I believe him.

Anyone can claim anything. The only bulwark against being deceived is the Holy Spirit. No claim can be better than that. Lots of people have claimed to heal people and whatever. Benny Hinn got quite a following from his "miracles."

Joseph Smith's ministry was never about miracles. The few he was involved with were not widely publicized. His ministry was about faith and repentance.

You are misquoting Alma. He does not mention miracles at all in Alma 5. He talks about being ordained and having the spirit of revelation confirm truths to him.

You should reread Alma 5. It is the model of a prophetic message, and it is the model the prophets follow today.

You still misunderstand what Alma is saying. He is simply saying that all revelation comes via the Holy Spirit. Whether that's a vision, an actual visitation, or hearing the words of heavenly messengers, etc. The Holy Ghost is the mechanism by which revelation comes about. The fruits of a prophet are the evidences that they are indeed not just men saying words. What evidences have they been able to show us like those prophets in the scriptures? This is what Christ directs us to look for.

The evidence is the Spirit of Revelation, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters

But what revelation are you referring to? Can we point to any words of Christ in these revelations? This is what I mean by evidence. There is none to observe.

Alma was saying that he witnessed evidence brought about THROUGH the Holy Spirit. Alma was able to recount word for word his experiences with revelation. He was able to quote the Angel. He was able to quote Jesus. He was able to perform miracles. These are the fruits of prophets.

You are simply saying "If you FEEL they are prophets because of their words, then that's all that is needed." This is not what Jesus Christ was saying in Matthew Chapter 7. He was concerned about deception and that there was a way to detect a true prophet from a false one. And that was by their fruits. What they produce.


Here are 11 of the minimum requirements of the fruits of prophets:

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647974485


A. He will boldly claim that God [has] spoken to him.

B. Any man so claiming would be a dignified man with a dignified message; no table-jumping, no whisperings from the dead, no clairvoyance, but an intelligent statement of truth.

C. Any man claiming to be a prophet of God would declare his message without any fear and without making any weak concessions to public opinion.

D. If he were speaking for God, he could not make concessions although what he taught would be new and contrary to the accepted teachings of the day. A prophet bears witness to what he has seen and heard and seldom tries to make a case by argument. His message and not himself is important.

E. Such a man would speak in the name of the Lord, saying, “Thus saith the Lord,” as did Moses, Joshua, and others.

F. Such a man would predict future events in the name of the Lord, and they would come to pass, as did Isaiah and Ezekiel.

G. He would have not only an important message for his time but often a message for all future time, such as Daniel, Jeremiah, and others had.

H. He would have courage and faith enough to endure persecution and to give his life, if need be, for the cause he espoused, such as Peter, Paul, and others did.

I. Such a man would denounce wickedness fearlessly. He would generally be rejected or persecuted by the people of his time, but later generations, the descendants of his persecutors, would build monuments in his honor.

J. He would be able to do superhuman things, things that no man could do without God’s help. The consequence or result of his message and work would be convincing evidence of his prophetic calling. “By their fruits ye shall know them” [Matt. 7:20].

K. His teachings would be in strict conformity with scripture, and his words and his writings would become scripture. “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Pet. 1:21).

The same revelation that Alma was speaking about. I hear the Brethren say the same things all the time.

No, that was not what he was talking about in Alma 5. Again, he said "Behold, I say unto you they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. And now I do know of myself that they are true; for the Lord God hath made them manifest unto me by his Holy Spirit; and this is the spirit of revelation which is in me."

You misunderstand revelations generally. I don't believe most revelations are verbal. If you've ever spoken with a patriarch, the revelations they receive are ideas, not words. That's the norm. Expecting revelations to ONLY be verbal is unnecessarily putting your own views on God.

You can reject the Spirit if you want. I don't. I think that is all we have. And it is absolutely what Jesus was referring to. He said "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

I think whether someone is a prophet is a pretty good "thing" for the Holy Ghost to teach us.

I know what Pres. Brown and his protestant friend expect from a prophet. None of that changes or overrides the need for a spiritual confirmation. If you wish to apply their test for prophetic fruit, that "The consequence or result of his message and work would be convincing evidence of his prophetic calling," you're welcome to. None of that is a replacement for spiritual confirmation. Someone can meet, or claim to meet, each of those items on their list, but unless the Spirit says they are a prophet, they aren't.

[InfoWarrior82]

You still misunderstand what Alma is saying. He is simply saying that all revelation comes via the Holy Spirit. Whether that's a vision, an actual visitation, or hearing the words of heavenly messengers, etc. The Holy Ghost is the mechanism by which revelation comes about. The fruits of a prophet are the evidences that they are indeed not just men saying words. What evidences have they been able to show us like those prophets in the scriptures? This is what Christ directs us to look for.

The evidence is the Spirit of Revelation, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters

But what revelation are you referring to? Can we point to any words of Christ in these revelations? This is what I mean by evidence. There is none to observe.

Alma was saying that he witnessed evidence brought about THROUGH the Holy Spirit. Alma was able to recount word for word his experiences with revelation. He was able to quote the Angel. He was able to quote Jesus. He was able to perform miracles. These are the fruits of prophets.

You are simply saying "If you FEEL they are prophets because of their words, then that's all that is needed." This is not what Jesus Christ was saying in Matthew Chapter 7. He was concerned about deception and that there was a way to detect a true prophet from a false one. And that was by their fruits. What they produce.


Here are 11 of the minimum requirements of the fruits of prophets:

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647974485


A. He will boldly claim that God [has] spoken to him.

B. Any man so claiming would be a dignified man with a dignified message; no table-jumping, no whisperings from the dead, no clairvoyance, but an intelligent statement of truth.

C. Any man claiming to be a prophet of God would declare his message without any fear and without making any weak concessions to public opinion.

D. If he were speaking for God, he could not make concessions although what he taught would be new and contrary to the accepted teachings of the day. A prophet bears witness to what he has seen and heard and seldom tries to make a case by argument. His message and not himself is important.

E. Such a man would speak in the name of the Lord, saying, “Thus saith the Lord,” as did Moses, Joshua, and others.

F. Such a man would predict future events in the name of the Lord, and they would come to pass, as did Isaiah and Ezekiel.

G. He would have not only an important message for his time but often a message for all future time, such as Daniel, Jeremiah, and others had.

H. He would have courage and faith enough to endure persecution and to give his life, if need be, for the cause he espoused, such as Peter, Paul, and others did.

I. Such a man would denounce wickedness fearlessly. He would generally be rejected or persecuted by the people of his time, but later generations, the descendants of his persecutors, would build monuments in his honor.

J. He would be able to do superhuman things, things that no man could do without God’s help. The consequence or result of his message and work would be convincing evidence of his prophetic calling. “By their fruits ye shall know them” [Matt. 7:20].

K. His teachings would be in strict conformity with scripture, and his words and his writings would become scripture. “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Pet. 1:21).

The same revelation that Alma was speaking about. I hear the Brethren say the same things all the time.

No, that was not what he was talking about in Alma 5. Again, he said "Behold, I say unto you they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. And now I do know of myself that they are true; for the Lord God hath made them manifest unto me by his Holy Spirit; and this is the spirit of revelation which is in me."

You misunderstand revelations generally. I don't believe most revelations are verbal. If you've ever spoken with a patriarch, the revelations they receive are ideas, not words. That's the norm. Expecting revelations to ONLY be verbal is unnecessarily putting your own views on God.

You can reject the Spirit if you want. I don't. I think that is all we have. And it is absolutely what Jesus was referring to. He said "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

I think whether someone is a prophet is a pretty good "thing" for the Holy Ghost to teach us.

I know what Pres. Brown and his protestant friend expect from a prophet. None of that changes or overrides the need for a spiritual confirmation. If you wish to apply their test for prophetic fruit, that "The consequence or result of his message and work would be convincing evidence of his prophetic calling," you're welcome to. None of that is a replacement for spiritual confirmation. Someone can meet, or claim to meet, each of those items on their list, but unless the Spirit says they are a prophet, they aren't.

You hear the brethren recite their revelations in Christ's words? Because that's how prophets do things. Don't believe me? Read the scriptures. Each one of them spoke in the name of the Lord. I'd love to read Christ's words in 2022.


Alma is special when he says that the spirit of revelation is in him. Why? Because he has the goods to back up the claim that the spirit of revelation is in him. As I said earlier, his resume of evidence (or fruit) of being a prophet are numerous for us to read and judge.

Yes, most revelations are not verbal. I've never had a verbal revelation, but then again, I've never claimed to be a prophet of God.

I'll ask again:


Why are the fruits of prophets we read about in scripture missing from our church leaders today? Which fruits out of the 11 Elder Brown gave us are apparent to observe?

[Artaxerxes]

The evidence is the Spirit of Revelation, as I have said many times. That is the only one that matters

But what revelation are you referring to? Can we point to any words of Christ in these revelations? This is what I mean by evidence. There is none to observe.

Alma was saying that he witnessed evidence brought about THROUGH the Holy Spirit. Alma was able to recount word for word his experiences with revelation. He was able to quote the Angel. He was able to quote Jesus. He was able to perform miracles. These are the fruits of prophets.

You are simply saying "If you FEEL they are prophets because of their words, then that's all that is needed." This is not what Jesus Christ was saying in Matthew Chapter 7. He was concerned about deception and that there was a way to detect a true prophet from a false one. And that was by their fruits. What they produce.


Here are 11 of the minimum requirements of the fruits of prophets:

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647974485


A. He will boldly claim that God [has] spoken to him.

B. Any man so claiming would be a dignified man with a dignified message; no table-jumping, no whisperings from the dead, no clairvoyance, but an intelligent statement of truth.

C. Any man claiming to be a prophet of God would declare his message without any fear and without making any weak concessions to public opinion.

D. If he were speaking for God, he could not make concessions although what he taught would be new and contrary to the accepted teachings of the day. A prophet bears witness to what he has seen and heard and seldom tries to make a case by argument. His message and not himself is important.

E. Such a man would speak in the name of the Lord, saying, “Thus saith the Lord,” as did Moses, Joshua, and others.

F. Such a man would predict future events in the name of the Lord, and they would come to pass, as did Isaiah and Ezekiel.

G. He would have not only an important message for his time but often a message for all future time, such as Daniel, Jeremiah, and others had.

H. He would have courage and faith enough to endure persecution and to give his life, if need be, for the cause he espoused, such as Peter, Paul, and others did.

I. Such a man would denounce wickedness fearlessly. He would generally be rejected or persecuted by the people of his time, but later generations, the descendants of his persecutors, would build monuments in his honor.

J. He would be able to do superhuman things, things that no man could do without God’s help. The consequence or result of his message and work would be convincing evidence of his prophetic calling. “By their fruits ye shall know them” [Matt. 7:20].

K. His teachings would be in strict conformity with scripture, and his words and his writings would become scripture. “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Pet. 1:21).

The same revelation that Alma was speaking about. I hear the Brethren say the same things all the time.

No, that was not what he was talking about in Alma 5. Again, he said "Behold, I say unto you they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. And now I do know of myself that they are true; for the Lord God hath made them manifest unto me by his Holy Spirit; and this is the spirit of revelation which is in me."

You misunderstand revelations generally. I don't believe most revelations are verbal. If you've ever spoken with a patriarch, the revelations they receive are ideas, not words. That's the norm. Expecting revelations to ONLY be verbal is unnecessarily putting your own views on God.

You can reject the Spirit if you want. I don't. I think that is all we have. And it is absolutely what Jesus was referring to. He said "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

I think whether someone is a prophet is a pretty good "thing" for the Holy Ghost to teach us.

I know what Pres. Brown and his protestant friend expect from a prophet. None of that changes or overrides the need for a spiritual confirmation. If you wish to apply their test for prophetic fruit, that "The consequence or result of his message and work would be convincing evidence of his prophetic calling," you're welcome to. None of that is a replacement for spiritual confirmation. Someone can meet, or claim to meet, each of those items on their list, but unless the Spirit says they are a prophet, they aren't.

You hear the brethren recite their revelations in Christ's words? Because that's how prophets do things. Don't believe me? Read the scriptures. Each one of them spoke in the name of the Lord. I'd love to read Christ's words in 2022.


Alma is special when he says that the spirit of revelation is in him. Why? Because he has the goods to back up the claim that the spirit of revelation is in him. As I said earlier, his resume of evidence (or fruit) of being a prophet are numerous for us to read and judge.

Yes, most revelations are not verbal. I've never had a verbal revelation, but then again, I've never claimed to be a prophet of God.

I'll ask again:


Why are the fruits of prophets we read about in scripture missing from our church leaders today? Which fruits out of the 11 Elder Brown gave us are apparent to observe?

Again, read Alma 5. That is what I expect and what I hear at general conference.

We have Alma's experience because of what his father wrote, and what Alma told his sons. It doesn't seem to have been part of his stump speech. Were miracles, or bragging about miracles, a standard part of his sermon, or was healing Zeezrom the exception that he seemed to keep as a sacred experience?

The fruits are not missing. You are expecting things that the Lord doesn't need to give you. Accept what the Lord offers as he offers it.

In case it wasn't clear, I don't particularly care what Pres. Brown and his friend expect. The ONLY thing I care about is what God says, through the Holy Spirit. That's it. If God says someone is a prophet, then I'm on board. If he doesn't, then I'm out. All this other stuff is totally irrelevant when compared with the God's own spirit.

[Fred]

"Why can't God's messengers just say the things I already agree with?" is a perennial complaint and never a valid one.

That man sounds like what a real prophet of God would be saying right now.

Instead, in our church, we get a steady regurgitation of quotes from one another and quoting ancient scriptures of which they have no understanding. They are wholly incapable of quoting the words of Christ to them because Christ does not speak to them. Is it too much to ask for a prophet to produce the fruits of a prophet?

They do. They tell us to repent and to have faith in Christ. The fact that you like what this other guy says doesn't mean he sounds like a prophet. It means you agree with him. That's not what makes someone a prophet.

Literally anyone can do that. I can do that. You can do that. But that does not make us prophets because WE do not produce the fruits Christ spoke about. Why do our church leaders not have these as well? Their resumes are looking pretty weak compared to literally any prophet we read about in the scriptures.

So then, what are they? Are they a different breed of prophet? A mini-prophet? Is there somewhere I can read the words of Christ where He introduced this new kind of prophet?

A faux profit. Or in better English For Profit.

[InfoWarrior82]

But what revelation are you referring to? Can we point to any words of Christ in these revelations? This is what I mean by evidence. There is none to observe.

Alma was saying that he witnessed evidence brought about THROUGH the Holy Spirit. Alma was able to recount word for word his experiences with revelation. He was able to quote the Angel. He was able to quote Jesus. He was able to perform miracles. These are the fruits of prophets.

You are simply saying "If you FEEL they are prophets because of their words, then that's all that is needed." This is not what Jesus Christ was saying in Matthew Chapter 7. He was concerned about deception and that there was a way to detect a true prophet from a false one. And that was by their fruits. What they produce.


Here are 11 of the minimum requirements of the fruits of prophets:

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647974485


A. He will boldly claim that God [has] spoken to him.

B. Any man so claiming would be a dignified man with a dignified message; no table-jumping, no whisperings from the dead, no clairvoyance, but an intelligent statement of truth.

C. Any man claiming to be a prophet of God would declare his message without any fear and without making any weak concessions to public opinion.

D. If he were speaking for God, he could not make concessions although what he taught would be new and contrary to the accepted teachings of the day. A prophet bears witness to what he has seen and heard and seldom tries to make a case by argument. His message and not himself is important.

E. Such a man would speak in the name of the Lord, saying, “Thus saith the Lord,” as did Moses, Joshua, and others.

F. Such a man would predict future events in the name of the Lord, and they would come to pass, as did Isaiah and Ezekiel.

G. He would have not only an important message for his time but often a message for all future time, such as Daniel, Jeremiah, and others had.

H. He would have courage and faith enough to endure persecution and to give his life, if need be, for the cause he espoused, such as Peter, Paul, and others did.

I. Such a man would denounce wickedness fearlessly. He would generally be rejected or persecuted by the people of his time, but later generations, the descendants of his persecutors, would build monuments in his honor.

J. He would be able to do superhuman things, things that no man could do without God’s help. The consequence or result of his message and work would be convincing evidence of his prophetic calling. “By their fruits ye shall know them” [Matt. 7:20].

K. His teachings would be in strict conformity with scripture, and his words and his writings would become scripture. “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Pet. 1:21).

The same revelation that Alma was speaking about. I hear the Brethren say the same things all the time.

No, that was not what he was talking about in Alma 5. Again, he said "Behold, I say unto you they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. And now I do know of myself that they are true; for the Lord God hath made them manifest unto me by his Holy Spirit; and this is the spirit of revelation which is in me."

You misunderstand revelations generally. I don't believe most revelations are verbal. If you've ever spoken with a patriarch, the revelations they receive are ideas, not words. That's the norm. Expecting revelations to ONLY be verbal is unnecessarily putting your own views on God.

You can reject the Spirit if you want. I don't. I think that is all we have. And it is absolutely what Jesus was referring to. He said "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

I think whether someone is a prophet is a pretty good "thing" for the Holy Ghost to teach us.

I know what Pres. Brown and his protestant friend expect from a prophet. None of that changes or overrides the need for a spiritual confirmation. If you wish to apply their test for prophetic fruit, that "The consequence or result of his message and work would be convincing evidence of his prophetic calling," you're welcome to. None of that is a replacement for spiritual confirmation. Someone can meet, or claim to meet, each of those items on their list, but unless the Spirit says they are a prophet, they aren't.

You hear the brethren recite their revelations in Christ's words? Because that's how prophets do things. Don't believe me? Read the scriptures. Each one of them spoke in the name of the Lord. I'd love to read Christ's words in 2022.


Alma is special when he says that the spirit of revelation is in him. Why? Because he has the goods to back up the claim that the spirit of revelation is in him. As I said earlier, his resume of evidence (or fruit) of being a prophet are numerous for us to read and judge.

Yes, most revelations are not verbal. I've never had a verbal revelation, but then again, I've never claimed to be a prophet of God.

I'll ask again:


Why are the fruits of prophets we read about in scripture missing from our church leaders today? Which fruits out of the 11 Elder Brown gave us are apparent to observe?

Again, read Alma 5. That is what I expect and what I hear at general conference.

We have Alma's experience because of what his father wrote, and what Alma told his sons. It doesn't seem to have been part of his stump speech. Were miracles, or bragging about miracles, a standard part of his sermon, or was healing Zeezrom the exception that he seemed to keep as a sacred experience?

The fruits are not missing. You are expecting things that the Lord doesn't need to give you. Accept what the Lord offers as he offers it.

In case it wasn't clear, I don't particularly care what Pres. Brown and his friend expect. The ONLY thing I care about is what God says, through the Holy Spirit. That's it. If God says someone is a prophet, then I'm on board. If he doesn't, then I'm out. All this other stuff is totally irrelevant when compared with the God's own spirit.

Alma 5 is awesome. He speaks the words of the Lord in this chapter. Did you forget that he did? You posted a single scripture, but forgot the rest of it.


The following IN RED (From Alma ch 5) are QUOTES not of himself, but directly from heaven. Once again, these are FRUITS. These are EVIDENCE. Something our church leaders DO NOT HAVE:

47 And moreover, I say unto you that it has thus been revealed unto me, that the words which have been spoken by our fathers are true, even so according to the spirit of prophecy which is in me, which is also by the manifestation of the Spirit of God.

48 I say unto you, that I know of myself that whatsoever I shall say unto you, concerning that which is to come, is true; and I say unto you, that I know that Jesus Christ shall come, yea, the Son, the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace, and mercy, and truth. And behold, it is he that cometh to take away the sins of the world, yea, the sins of every man who steadfastly believeth on his name.

49 And now I say unto you that this is the order after which I am called, yea, to preach unto my beloved brethren, yea, and every one that dwelleth in the land; yea, to preach unto all, both old and young, both bond and free; yea, I say unto you the aged, and also the middle aged, and the rising generation; yea, to cry unto them that they must repent and be born again.

50 Yea, thus saith the Spirit: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand; yea, the Son of God cometh in his glory, in his might, majesty, power, and dominion. Yea, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, that the Spirit saith: Behold the glory of the King of all the earth; and also the King of heaven shall very soon shine forth among all the children of men.

51 And also the Spirit saith unto me, yea, crieth unto me with a mighty voice, saying: Go forth and say unto this people—Repent, for except ye repent ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of heaven.

52 And again I say unto you, the Spirit saith: Behold, the ax is laid at the root of the tree; therefore every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire, yea, a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fire. Behold, and remember, the Holy One hath spoken it.

53 And now my beloved brethren, I say unto you, can ye withstand these sayings; yea, can ye lay aside these things, and trample the Holy One under your feet; yea, can ye be puffed up in the pride of your hearts; yea, will ye still persist in the wearing of costly apparel and setting your hearts upon the vain things of the world, upon your riches?

54 Yea, will ye persist in supposing that ye are better one than another; yea, will ye persist in the persecution of your brethren, who humble themselves and do walk after the holy order of God, wherewith they have been brought into this church, having been sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and they do bring forth works which are meet for repentance—

55 Yea, and will you persist in turning your backs upon the poor, and the needy, and in withholding your substance from them?

56 And finally, all ye that will persist in your wickedness, I say unto you that these are they who shall be hewn down and cast into the fire except they speedily repent.

57 And now I say unto you, all you that are desirous to follow the voice of the good shepherd, come ye out from the wicked, and be ye separate, and touch not their unclean things; and behold, their names shall be blotted out, that the names of the wicked shall not be numbered among the names of the righteous, that the word of God may be fulfilled, which saith: The names of the wicked shall not be mingled with the names of my people;

58 For the names of the righteous shall be written in the book of life, and unto them will I grant an inheritance at my right hand. And now, my brethren, what have ye to say against this? I say unto you, if ye speak against it, it matters not, for the word of God must be fulfilled.

59 For what shepherd is there among you having many sheep doth not watch over them, that the wolves enter not and devour his flock? And behold, if a wolf enter his flock doth he not drive him out? Yea, and at the last, if he can, he will destroy him.

60 And now I say unto you that the good shepherd doth call after you; and if you will hearken unto his voice he will bring you into his fold, and ye are his sheep; and he commandeth you that ye suffer no ravenous wolf to enter among you, that ye may not be destroyed.

61 And now I, Alma, do command you in the language of him who hath commanded me, that ye observe to do the words which I have spoken unto you.

62 I speak by way of command unto you that belong to the church; and unto those who do not belong to the church I speak by way of invitation, saying: Come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye also may be partakers of the fruit of the tree of life.


And in Chapter 8 he quotes the Angel of the Lord:

14 And it came to pass that while he was journeying thither, being weighed down with sorrow, wading through much tribulation and anguish of soul, because of the wickedness of the people who were in the city of Ammonihah, it came to pass while Alma was thus weighed down with sorrow, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto him, saying:

15 Blessed art thou, Alma; therefore, lift up thy head and rejoice, for thou hast great cause to rejoice; for thou hast been faithful in keeping the commandments of God from the time which thou receivedst thy first message from him. Behold, I am he that delivered it unto you.

16 And behold, I am sent to command thee that thou return to the city of Ammonihah, and preach again unto the people of the city; yea, preach unto them. Yea, say unto them, except they repent the Lord God will destroy them.

17 For behold, they do study at this time that they may destroy the liberty of thy people, (for thus saith the Lord) which is contrary to the statutes, and judgments, and commandments which he has given unto his people.

18 Now it came to pass that after Alma had received his message from the angel of the Lord he returned speedily to the land of Ammonihah. And he entered the city by another way, yea, by the way which is on the south of the city of Ammonihah.

29 And the word came to Alma, saying: Go; and also say unto my servant Amulek, go forth and prophesy unto this people, saying—Repent ye, for thus saith the Lord, except ye repent I will visit this people in mine anger; yea, and I will not turn my fierce anger away.

30 And Alma went forth, and also Amulek, among the people, to declare the words of God unto them; and they were filled with the Holy Ghost.

31 And they had power given unto them, insomuch that they could not be confined in dungeons; neither was it possible that any man could slay them; nevertheless they did not exercise their power until they were bound in bands and cast into prison. Now, this was done that the Lord might show forth his power in them.

32 And it came to pass that they went forth and began to preach and to prophesy unto the people, according to the spirit and power which the Lord had given them.

And in Chapter 9:

21 Having been visited by the Spirit of God; having conversed with angels, and having been spoken unto by the voice of the Lord; and having the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and also many gifts, the gift of speaking with tongues, and the gift of preaching, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the gift of translation;

And Amulek in Chapter 10:

7 As I was journeying to see a very near kindred, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto me and said: Amulek, return to thine own house, for thou shalt feed a prophet of the Lord; yea, a holy man, who is a chosen man of God; for he has fasted many days because of the sins of this people, and he is an hungered, and thou shalt receive him into thy house and feed him, and he shall bless thee and thy house; and the blessing of the Lord shall rest upon thee and thy house.

8 And it came to pass that I obeyed the voice of the angel, and returned towards my house. And as I was going thither I found the man whom the angel said unto me: Thou shalt receive into thy house—and behold it was this same man who has been speaking unto you concerning the things of God.

9 And the angel said unto me he is a holy man; wherefore I know he is a holy man because it was said by an angel of God.

10 And again, I know that the things whereof he hath testified are true; for behold I say unto you, that as the Lord liveth, even so has he sent his angel to make these things manifest unto me; and this he has done while this Alma hath dwelt at my house.

We have what Alma the Younger experienced, because he himself experienced it. He had experienced actual prophetic revelation. How many times do I need to point out to you that these prophets in the scriptures have extensive resumes with numerous fruits of being prophets?

You don't want to answer the question I am asking you because you cannot answer it.

Why are the fruits of prophets we read about in scripture missing from our church leaders today?


This is the most essential, fundamental, and basic requirement of a prophet of God: He will recite the words of the Lord to him in his day for the benefit of all who live in that day.

[pho·to·syn·the·sis]

Blind faith in the corporate executives in Salt Lake.

On your knees before the great corporate executives, peasant!
dc

It's too bad there's only two options. Either we murmur that the brethren aren't saying the things we want to hear, or we worship them. That's the only options!

Very interesting sentiment.

[Fred]

In order for the LDS leadership to "get it", someone will have to convince them that God is in charge. Right now, they believe the UN and WEF are in charge. If the church spent as much time bringing people to Christ as they do pointing people to disciples of satan, no LDS would wear a mask or get the jab, and God would bless us enormously. LDS would live long and prosper. But how do we convince RMN and Wendy that God has a purpose other than extracting money from people searching for truth?

well, they kinda of are in charge . . .God has given power to satan . . his great day . . .but not for long . . .notice I said God has given it . . . Satan has no power but what he is allowed

we are protected against the power of satan as a person, church and country if we live righteously . . . if we do not live righteously, then God removes his protection . . he does not need to directly punish us cuz there is plenty of evil on this earth to do it . .

he just removes his protection . . .

Sure. Do you think that if RMN decided to tell the truth about secret combinations, the UN, WEF, Bill Gates, Mutt Romney, Fauci, etc, that they would remain in power? Or would truth prevail and the work of the Lord carry on even faster? Plan A is to declare follow the profit, refuse to tell the truth about current events and hope the members get saved in their ignorance. Plan B is to follow Christ by example and encourage others to do the same and the rewards are self evident. I just wonder why telling the truth was not an option or perhaps even considered?

[Artaxerxes]

The same revelation that Alma was speaking about. I hear the Brethren say the same things all the time.

No, that was not what he was talking about in Alma 5. Again, he said "Behold, I say unto you they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. And now I do know of myself that they are true; for the Lord God hath made them manifest unto me by his Holy Spirit; and this is the spirit of revelation which is in me."

You misunderstand revelations generally. I don't believe most revelations are verbal. If you've ever spoken with a patriarch, the revelations they receive are ideas, not words. That's the norm. Expecting revelations to ONLY be verbal is unnecessarily putting your own views on God.

You can reject the Spirit if you want. I don't. I think that is all we have. And it is absolutely what Jesus was referring to. He said "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

I think whether someone is a prophet is a pretty good "thing" for the Holy Ghost to teach us.

I know what Pres. Brown and his protestant friend expect from a prophet. None of that changes or overrides the need for a spiritual confirmation. If you wish to apply their test for prophetic fruit, that "The consequence or result of his message and work would be convincing evidence of his prophetic calling," you're welcome to. None of that is a replacement for spiritual confirmation. Someone can meet, or claim to meet, each of those items on their list, but unless the Spirit says they are a prophet, they aren't.

You hear the brethren recite their revelations in Christ's words? Because that's how prophets do things. Don't believe me? Read the scriptures. Each one of them spoke in the name of the Lord. I'd love to read Christ's words in 2022.


Alma is special when he says that the spirit of revelation is in him. Why? Because he has the goods to back up the claim that the spirit of revelation is in him. As I said earlier, his resume of evidence (or fruit) of being a prophet are numerous for us to read and judge.

Yes, most revelations are not verbal. I've never had a verbal revelation, but then again, I've never claimed to be a prophet of God.

I'll ask again:


Why are the fruits of prophets we read about in scripture missing from our church leaders today? Which fruits out of the 11 Elder Brown gave us are apparent to observe?

Again, read Alma 5. That is what I expect and what I hear at general conference.

We have Alma's experience because of what his father wrote, and what Alma told his sons. It doesn't seem to have been part of his stump speech. Were miracles, or bragging about miracles, a standard part of his sermon, or was healing Zeezrom the exception that he seemed to keep as a sacred experience?

The fruits are not missing. You are expecting things that the Lord doesn't need to give you. Accept what the Lord offers as he offers it.

In case it wasn't clear, I don't particularly care what Pres. Brown and his friend expect. The ONLY thing I care about is what God says, through the Holy Spirit. That's it. If God says someone is a prophet, then I'm on board. If he doesn't, then I'm out. All this other stuff is totally irrelevant when compared with the God's own spirit.

Alma 5 is awesome. He speaks the words of the Lord in this chapter. Did you forget that he did? You posted a single scripture, but forgot the rest of it.


The following IN RED (From Alma ch 5) are QUOTES not of himself, but directly from heaven. Once again, these are FRUITS. These are EVIDENCE. Something our church leaders DO NOT HAVE:

47 And moreover, I say unto you that it has thus been revealed unto me, that the words which have been spoken by our fathers are true, even so according to the spirit of prophecy which is in me, which is also by the manifestation of the Spirit of God.

48 I say unto you, that I know of myself that whatsoever I shall say unto you, concerning that which is to come, is true; and I say unto you, that I know that Jesus Christ shall come, yea, the Son, the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace, and mercy, and truth. And behold, it is he that cometh to take away the sins of the world, yea, the sins of every man who steadfastly believeth on his name.

49 And now I say unto you that this is the order after which I am called, yea, to preach unto my beloved brethren, yea, and every one that dwelleth in the land; yea, to preach unto all, both old and young, both bond and free; yea, I say unto you the aged, and also the middle aged, and the rising generation; yea, to cry unto them that they must repent and be born again.

50 Yea, thus saith the Spirit: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand; yea, the Son of God cometh in his glory, in his might, majesty, power, and dominion. Yea, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, that the Spirit saith: Behold the glory of the King of all the earth; and also the King of heaven shall very soon shine forth among all the children of men.

51 And also the Spirit saith unto me, yea, crieth unto me with a mighty voice, saying: Go forth and say unto this people—Repent, for except ye repent ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of heaven.

52 And again I say unto you, the Spirit saith: Behold, the ax is laid at the root of the tree; therefore every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire, yea, a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fire. Behold, and remember, the Holy One hath spoken it.

53 And now my beloved brethren, I say unto you, can ye withstand these sayings; yea, can ye lay aside these things, and trample the Holy One under your feet; yea, can ye be puffed up in the pride of your hearts; yea, will ye still persist in the wearing of costly apparel and setting your hearts upon the vain things of the world, upon your riches?

54 Yea, will ye persist in supposing that ye are better one than another; yea, will ye persist in the persecution of your brethren, who humble themselves and do walk after the holy order of God, wherewith they have been brought into this church, having been sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and they do bring forth works which are meet for repentance—

55 Yea, and will you persist in turning your backs upon the poor, and the needy, and in withholding your substance from them?

56 And finally, all ye that will persist in your wickedness, I say unto you that these are they who shall be hewn down and cast into the fire except they speedily repent.

57 And now I say unto you, all you that are desirous to follow the voice of the good shepherd, come ye out from the wicked, and be ye separate, and touch not their unclean things; and behold, their names shall be blotted out, that the names of the wicked shall not be numbered among the names of the righteous, that the word of God may be fulfilled, which saith: The names of the wicked shall not be mingled with the names of my people;

58 For the names of the righteous shall be written in the book of life, and unto them will I grant an inheritance at my right hand. And now, my brethren, what have ye to say against this? I say unto you, if ye speak against it, it matters not, for the word of God must be fulfilled.

59 For what shepherd is there among you having many sheep doth not watch over them, that the wolves enter not and devour his flock? And behold, if a wolf enter his flock doth he not drive him out? Yea, and at the last, if he can, he will destroy him.

60 And now I say unto you that the good shepherd doth call after you; and if you will hearken unto his voice he will bring you into his fold, and ye are his sheep; and he commandeth you that ye suffer no ravenous wolf to enter among you, that ye may not be destroyed.

61 And now I, Alma, do command you in the language of him who hath commanded me, that ye observe to do the words which I have spoken unto you.

62 I speak by way of command unto you that belong to the church; and unto those who do not belong to the church I speak by way of invitation, saying: Come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye also may be partakers of the fruit of the tree of life.


And in Chapter 8 he quotes the Angel of the Lord:

14 And it came to pass that while he was journeying thither, being weighed down with sorrow, wading through much tribulation and anguish of soul, because of the wickedness of the people who were in the city of Ammonihah, it came to pass while Alma was thus weighed down with sorrow, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto him, saying:

15 Blessed art thou, Alma; therefore, lift up thy head and rejoice, for thou hast great cause to rejoice; for thou hast been faithful in keeping the commandments of God from the time which thou receivedst thy first message from him. Behold, I am he that delivered it unto you.

16 And behold, I am sent to command thee that thou return to the city of Ammonihah, and preach again unto the people of the city; yea, preach unto them. Yea, say unto them, except they repent the Lord God will destroy them.

17 For behold, they do study at this time that they may destroy the liberty of thy people, (for thus saith the Lord) which is contrary to the statutes, and judgments, and commandments which he has given unto his people.

18 Now it came to pass that after Alma had received his message from the angel of the Lord he returned speedily to the land of Ammonihah. And he entered the city by another way, yea, by the way which is on the south of the city of Ammonihah.

29 And the word came to Alma, saying: Go; and also say unto my servant Amulek, go forth and prophesy unto this people, saying—Repent ye, for thus saith the Lord, except ye repent I will visit this people in mine anger; yea, and I will not turn my fierce anger away.

30 And Alma went forth, and also Amulek, among the people, to declare the words of God unto them; and they were filled with the Holy Ghost.

31 And they had power given unto them, insomuch that they could not be confined in dungeons; neither was it possible that any man could slay them; nevertheless they did not exercise their power until they were bound in bands and cast into prison. Now, this was done that the Lord might show forth his power in them.

32 And it came to pass that they went forth and began to preach and to prophesy unto the people, according to the spirit and power which the Lord had given them.

And in Chapter 9:

21 Having been visited by the Spirit of God; having conversed with angels, and having been spoken unto by the voice of the Lord; and having the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and also many gifts, the gift of speaking with tongues, and the gift of preaching, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the gift of translation;

And Amulek in Chapter 10:

7 As I was journeying to see a very near kindred, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto me and said: Amulek, return to thine own house, for thou shalt feed a prophet of the Lord; yea, a holy man, who is a chosen man of God; for he has fasted many days because of the sins of this people, and he is an hungered, and thou shalt receive him into thy house and feed him, and he shall bless thee and thy house; and the blessing of the Lord shall rest upon thee and thy house.

8 And it came to pass that I obeyed the voice of the angel, and returned towards my house. And as I was going thither I found the man whom the angel said unto me: Thou shalt receive into thy house—and behold it was this same man who has been speaking unto you concerning the things of God.

9 And the angel said unto me he is a holy man; wherefore I know he is a holy man because it was said by an angel of God.

10 And again, I know that the things whereof he hath testified are true; for behold I say unto you, that as the Lord liveth, even so has he sent his angel to make these things manifest unto me; and this he has done while this Alma hath dwelt at my house.

We have what Alma the Younger experienced, because he himself experienced it. He had experienced actual prophetic revelation. How many times do I need to point out to you that these prophets in the scriptures have extensive resumes with numerous fruits of being prophets?

You don't want to answer the question I am asking you because you cannot answer it.

Why are the fruits of prophets we read about in scripture missing from our church leaders today?


This is the most essential, fundamental, and basic requirement of a prophet of God: He will recite the words of the Lord to him in his day for the benefit of all who live in that day.

The Brethren frequently speak like what is in Alma 5. They say what the Spirit has told them, usually not through quotes, but sometimes in that way.

However, in the moment I bore my testimony, I received another confirmation of my testimony. The Spirit said, “Your words of testimony are true.” He was testifying to me about my testimony.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994433

I testify that the Lord instructed me to select President Dallin H. Oaks and President Henry B. Eyring to serve as my counselors in the First Presidency.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647992990

Like you, I have received many messages from the Spirit over the years showing me how I could improve. Let me share a few personal examples of messages that I took to heart. These promptings have included:

Don’t raise your voice.

Organize yourself; create a daily list of things to do.

Take better care of your body by eating more fruits and vegetables.

Increase your temple attendance.

Take time to ponder before you pray.

Ask your wife for her counsel.

And be patient when driving; don’t exceed the speed limit. (I’m still working on that last one.)

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994515

During the Saturday session of the conference, as President Monson stood to speak, the Spirit whispered, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”3

“His notes became a blur. He attempted to pursue the theme of the meeting as outlined, but the name and image of [the little girl] would not leave his mind.”4

He listened to the Spirit and rearranged his schedule. Early the next morning, President Monson left the ninety and nine and traveled many miles to be at the bedside of the one.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994620

Elder Maxwell “had a sacred experience” in which “the soul voice of the Spirit came into his mind to whisper, ‘I have given you leukemia that you might teach my people with authenticity.’"

https://magazine.byu.edu/article/preach ... use-words/


None of this evidence. Anyone can claim anything they want. Again, only the Spirit matters.

The rest of what you quoted is not from sermons. As I said, it appears that Alma kept his experiences sacred and did not openly discuss most of his experiences. Again, what Alma preached was that he had been ordained and that the Spirit confirmed things to him. That's exactly what we are taught now.

[Artaxerxes]

In order for the LDS leadership to "get it", someone will have to convince them that God is in charge. Right now, they believe the UN and WEF are in charge. If the church spent as much time bringing people to Christ as they do pointing people to disciples of satan, no LDS would wear a mask or get the jab, and God would bless us enormously. LDS would live long and prosper. But how do we convince RMN and Wendy that God has a purpose other than extracting money from people searching for truth?

well, they kinda of are in charge . . .God has given power to satan . . his great day . . .but not for long . . .notice I said God has given it . . . Satan has no power but what he is allowed

we are protected against the power of satan as a person, church and country if we live righteously . . . if we do not live righteously, then God removes his protection . . he does not need to directly punish us cuz there is plenty of evil on this earth to do it . .

he just removes his protection . . .

Sure. Do you think that if RMN decided to tell the truth about secret combinations, the UN, WEF, Bill Gates, Mutt Romney, Fauci, etc, that they would remain in power? Or would truth prevail and the work of the Lord carry on even faster? Plan A is to declare follow the profit, refuse to tell the truth about current events and hope the members get saved in their ignorance. Plan B is to follow Christ by example and encourage others to do the same and the rewards are self evident. I just wonder why telling the truth was not an option or perhaps even considered?

They do tell the truth. Your objection is that they don't tell you the comforting lies that you want to hear.

[InfoWarrior82]

You hear the brethren recite their revelations in Christ's words? Because that's how prophets do things. Don't believe me? Read the scriptures. Each one of them spoke in the name of the Lord. I'd love to read Christ's words in 2022.


Alma is special when he says that the spirit of revelation is in him. Why? Because he has the goods to back up the claim that the spirit of revelation is in him. As I said earlier, his resume of evidence (or fruit) of being a prophet are numerous for us to read and judge.

Yes, most revelations are not verbal. I've never had a verbal revelation, but then again, I've never claimed to be a prophet of God.

I'll ask again:


Why are the fruits of prophets we read about in scripture missing from our church leaders today? Which fruits out of the 11 Elder Brown gave us are apparent to observe?

Again, read Alma 5. That is what I expect and what I hear at general conference.

We have Alma's experience because of what his father wrote, and what Alma told his sons. It doesn't seem to have been part of his stump speech. Were miracles, or bragging about miracles, a standard part of his sermon, or was healing Zeezrom the exception that he seemed to keep as a sacred experience?

The fruits are not missing. You are expecting things that the Lord doesn't need to give you. Accept what the Lord offers as he offers it.

In case it wasn't clear, I don't particularly care what Pres. Brown and his friend expect. The ONLY thing I care about is what God says, through the Holy Spirit. That's it. If God says someone is a prophet, then I'm on board. If he doesn't, then I'm out. All this other stuff is totally irrelevant when compared with the God's own spirit.

Alma 5 is awesome. He speaks the words of the Lord in this chapter. Did you forget that he did? You posted a single scripture, but forgot the rest of it.


The following IN RED (From Alma ch 5) are QUOTES not of himself, but directly from heaven. Once again, these are FRUITS. These are EVIDENCE. Something our church leaders DO NOT HAVE:

47 And moreover, I say unto you that it has thus been revealed unto me, that the words which have been spoken by our fathers are true, even so according to the spirit of prophecy which is in me, which is also by the manifestation of the Spirit of God.

48 I say unto you, that I know of myself that whatsoever I shall say unto you, concerning that which is to come, is true; and I say unto you, that I know that Jesus Christ shall come, yea, the Son, the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace, and mercy, and truth. And behold, it is he that cometh to take away the sins of the world, yea, the sins of every man who steadfastly believeth on his name.

49 And now I say unto you that this is the order after which I am called, yea, to preach unto my beloved brethren, yea, and every one that dwelleth in the land; yea, to preach unto all, both old and young, both bond and free; yea, I say unto you the aged, and also the middle aged, and the rising generation; yea, to cry unto them that they must repent and be born again.

50 Yea, thus saith the Spirit: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand; yea, the Son of God cometh in his glory, in his might, majesty, power, and dominion. Yea, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, that the Spirit saith: Behold the glory of the King of all the earth; and also the King of heaven shall very soon shine forth among all the children of men.

51 And also the Spirit saith unto me, yea, crieth unto me with a mighty voice, saying: Go forth and say unto this people—Repent, for except ye repent ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of heaven.

52 And again I say unto you, the Spirit saith: Behold, the ax is laid at the root of the tree; therefore every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire, yea, a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fire. Behold, and remember, the Holy One hath spoken it.

53 And now my beloved brethren, I say unto you, can ye withstand these sayings; yea, can ye lay aside these things, and trample the Holy One under your feet; yea, can ye be puffed up in the pride of your hearts; yea, will ye still persist in the wearing of costly apparel and setting your hearts upon the vain things of the world, upon your riches?

54 Yea, will ye persist in supposing that ye are better one than another; yea, will ye persist in the persecution of your brethren, who humble themselves and do walk after the holy order of God, wherewith they have been brought into this church, having been sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and they do bring forth works which are meet for repentance—

55 Yea, and will you persist in turning your backs upon the poor, and the needy, and in withholding your substance from them?

56 And finally, all ye that will persist in your wickedness, I say unto you that these are they who shall be hewn down and cast into the fire except they speedily repent.

57 And now I say unto you, all you that are desirous to follow the voice of the good shepherd, come ye out from the wicked, and be ye separate, and touch not their unclean things; and behold, their names shall be blotted out, that the names of the wicked shall not be numbered among the names of the righteous, that the word of God may be fulfilled, which saith: The names of the wicked shall not be mingled with the names of my people;

58 For the names of the righteous shall be written in the book of life, and unto them will I grant an inheritance at my right hand. And now, my brethren, what have ye to say against this? I say unto you, if ye speak against it, it matters not, for the word of God must be fulfilled.

59 For what shepherd is there among you having many sheep doth not watch over them, that the wolves enter not and devour his flock? And behold, if a wolf enter his flock doth he not drive him out? Yea, and at the last, if he can, he will destroy him.

60 And now I say unto you that the good shepherd doth call after you; and if you will hearken unto his voice he will bring you into his fold, and ye are his sheep; and he commandeth you that ye suffer no ravenous wolf to enter among you, that ye may not be destroyed.

61 And now I, Alma, do command you in the language of him who hath commanded me, that ye observe to do the words which I have spoken unto you.

62 I speak by way of command unto you that belong to the church; and unto those who do not belong to the church I speak by way of invitation, saying: Come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye also may be partakers of the fruit of the tree of life.


And in Chapter 8 he quotes the Angel of the Lord:

14 And it came to pass that while he was journeying thither, being weighed down with sorrow, wading through much tribulation and anguish of soul, because of the wickedness of the people who were in the city of Ammonihah, it came to pass while Alma was thus weighed down with sorrow, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto him, saying:

15 Blessed art thou, Alma; therefore, lift up thy head and rejoice, for thou hast great cause to rejoice; for thou hast been faithful in keeping the commandments of God from the time which thou receivedst thy first message from him. Behold, I am he that delivered it unto you.

16 And behold, I am sent to command thee that thou return to the city of Ammonihah, and preach again unto the people of the city; yea, preach unto them. Yea, say unto them, except they repent the Lord God will destroy them.

17 For behold, they do study at this time that they may destroy the liberty of thy people, (for thus saith the Lord) which is contrary to the statutes, and judgments, and commandments which he has given unto his people.

18 Now it came to pass that after Alma had received his message from the angel of the Lord he returned speedily to the land of Ammonihah. And he entered the city by another way, yea, by the way which is on the south of the city of Ammonihah.

29 And the word came to Alma, saying: Go; and also say unto my servant Amulek, go forth and prophesy unto this people, saying—Repent ye, for thus saith the Lord, except ye repent I will visit this people in mine anger; yea, and I will not turn my fierce anger away.

30 And Alma went forth, and also Amulek, among the people, to declare the words of God unto them; and they were filled with the Holy Ghost.

31 And they had power given unto them, insomuch that they could not be confined in dungeons; neither was it possible that any man could slay them; nevertheless they did not exercise their power until they were bound in bands and cast into prison. Now, this was done that the Lord might show forth his power in them.

32 And it came to pass that they went forth and began to preach and to prophesy unto the people, according to the spirit and power which the Lord had given them.

And in Chapter 9:

21 Having been visited by the Spirit of God; having conversed with angels, and having been spoken unto by the voice of the Lord; and having the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and also many gifts, the gift of speaking with tongues, and the gift of preaching, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the gift of translation;

And Amulek in Chapter 10:

7 As I was journeying to see a very near kindred, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto me and said: Amulek, return to thine own house, for thou shalt feed a prophet of the Lord; yea, a holy man, who is a chosen man of God; for he has fasted many days because of the sins of this people, and he is an hungered, and thou shalt receive him into thy house and feed him, and he shall bless thee and thy house; and the blessing of the Lord shall rest upon thee and thy house.

8 And it came to pass that I obeyed the voice of the angel, and returned towards my house. And as I was going thither I found the man whom the angel said unto me: Thou shalt receive into thy house—and behold it was this same man who has been speaking unto you concerning the things of God.

9 And the angel said unto me he is a holy man; wherefore I know he is a holy man because it was said by an angel of God.

10 And again, I know that the things whereof he hath testified are true; for behold I say unto you, that as the Lord liveth, even so has he sent his angel to make these things manifest unto me; and this he has done while this Alma hath dwelt at my house.

We have what Alma the Younger experienced, because he himself experienced it. He had experienced actual prophetic revelation. How many times do I need to point out to you that these prophets in the scriptures have extensive resumes with numerous fruits of being prophets?

You don't want to answer the question I am asking you because you cannot answer it.

Why are the fruits of prophets we read about in scripture missing from our church leaders today?


This is the most essential, fundamental, and basic requirement of a prophet of God: He will recite the words of the Lord to him in his day for the benefit of all who live in that day.

The Brethren frequently speak like what is in Alma 5. They say what the Spirit has told them, usually not through quotes, but sometimes in that way.

However, in the moment I bore my testimony, I received another confirmation of my testimony. The Spirit said, “Your words of testimony are true.” He was testifying to me about my testimony.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994433

I testify that the Lord instructed me to select President Dallin H. Oaks and President Henry B. Eyring to serve as my counselors in the First Presidency.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647992990

Like you, I have received many messages from the Spirit over the years showing me how I could improve. Let me share a few personal examples of messages that I took to heart. These promptings have included:

Don’t raise your voice.

Organize yourself; create a daily list of things to do.

Take better care of your body by eating more fruits and vegetables.

Increase your temple attendance.

Take time to ponder before you pray.

Ask your wife for her counsel.

And be patient when driving; don’t exceed the speed limit. (I’m still working on that last one.)

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994515

During the Saturday session of the conference, as President Monson stood to speak, the Spirit whispered, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”3

“His notes became a blur. He attempted to pursue the theme of the meeting as outlined, but the name and image of [the little girl] would not leave his mind.”4

He listened to the Spirit and rearranged his schedule. Early the next morning, President Monson left the ninety and nine and traveled many miles to be at the bedside of the one.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994620

Elder Maxwell “had a sacred experience” in which “the soul voice of the Spirit came into his mind to whisper, ‘I have given you leukemia that you might teach my people with authenticity.’"

https://magazine.byu.edu/article/preach ... use-words/


None of this evidence. Anyone can claim anything they want. Again, only the Spirit matters.

The rest of what you quoted is not from sermons. As I said, it appears that Alma kept his experiences sacred and did not openly discuss most of his experiences. Again, what Alma preached was that he had been ordained and that the Spirit confirmed things to him. That's exactly what we are taught now.

All of these things you posted are examples of personal revelation for their own lives. I've experienced these kinds of revelation. But I'm not a prophet. I think you're missing the point. What makes them a prophet of the world? Where are the words of Christ when they asked Him about the pandemic? The clotshots were a bust. But RMN said it was a "literal Godsend". How can he be wrong when speaking for the Lord? Is that sort of thing possible? Is it possible that even they can be deceived when they think that they are receiving revelation that isn't actually revelation? They still haven't said "Thus saith the Lord"in over 200 years. Why not? Why was President Woodruff the last one to do it?

[Artaxerxes]

Again, read Alma 5. That is what I expect and what I hear at general conference.

We have Alma's experience because of what his father wrote, and what Alma told his sons. It doesn't seem to have been part of his stump speech. Were miracles, or bragging about miracles, a standard part of his sermon, or was healing Zeezrom the exception that he seemed to keep as a sacred experience?

The fruits are not missing. You are expecting things that the Lord doesn't need to give you. Accept what the Lord offers as he offers it.

In case it wasn't clear, I don't particularly care what Pres. Brown and his friend expect. The ONLY thing I care about is what God says, through the Holy Spirit. That's it. If God says someone is a prophet, then I'm on board. If he doesn't, then I'm out. All this other stuff is totally irrelevant when compared with the God's own spirit.

Alma 5 is awesome. He speaks the words of the Lord in this chapter. Did you forget that he did? You posted a single scripture, but forgot the rest of it.


The following IN RED (From Alma ch 5) are QUOTES not of himself, but directly from heaven. Once again, these are FRUITS. These are EVIDENCE. Something our church leaders DO NOT HAVE:

47 And moreover, I say unto you that it has thus been revealed unto me, that the words which have been spoken by our fathers are true, even so according to the spirit of prophecy which is in me, which is also by the manifestation of the Spirit of God.

48 I say unto you, that I know of myself that whatsoever I shall say unto you, concerning that which is to come, is true; and I say unto you, that I know that Jesus Christ shall come, yea, the Son, the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace, and mercy, and truth. And behold, it is he that cometh to take away the sins of the world, yea, the sins of every man who steadfastly believeth on his name.

49 And now I say unto you that this is the order after which I am called, yea, to preach unto my beloved brethren, yea, and every one that dwelleth in the land; yea, to preach unto all, both old and young, both bond and free; yea, I say unto you the aged, and also the middle aged, and the rising generation; yea, to cry unto them that they must repent and be born again.

50 Yea, thus saith the Spirit: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand; yea, the Son of God cometh in his glory, in his might, majesty, power, and dominion. Yea, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, that the Spirit saith: Behold the glory of the King of all the earth; and also the King of heaven shall very soon shine forth among all the children of men.

51 And also the Spirit saith unto me, yea, crieth unto me with a mighty voice, saying: Go forth and say unto this people—Repent, for except ye repent ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of heaven.

52 And again I say unto you, the Spirit saith: Behold, the ax is laid at the root of the tree; therefore every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire, yea, a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fire. Behold, and remember, the Holy One hath spoken it.

53 And now my beloved brethren, I say unto you, can ye withstand these sayings; yea, can ye lay aside these things, and trample the Holy One under your feet; yea, can ye be puffed up in the pride of your hearts; yea, will ye still persist in the wearing of costly apparel and setting your hearts upon the vain things of the world, upon your riches?

54 Yea, will ye persist in supposing that ye are better one than another; yea, will ye persist in the persecution of your brethren, who humble themselves and do walk after the holy order of God, wherewith they have been brought into this church, having been sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and they do bring forth works which are meet for repentance—

55 Yea, and will you persist in turning your backs upon the poor, and the needy, and in withholding your substance from them?

56 And finally, all ye that will persist in your wickedness, I say unto you that these are they who shall be hewn down and cast into the fire except they speedily repent.

57 And now I say unto you, all you that are desirous to follow the voice of the good shepherd, come ye out from the wicked, and be ye separate, and touch not their unclean things; and behold, their names shall be blotted out, that the names of the wicked shall not be numbered among the names of the righteous, that the word of God may be fulfilled, which saith: The names of the wicked shall not be mingled with the names of my people;

58 For the names of the righteous shall be written in the book of life, and unto them will I grant an inheritance at my right hand. And now, my brethren, what have ye to say against this? I say unto you, if ye speak against it, it matters not, for the word of God must be fulfilled.

59 For what shepherd is there among you having many sheep doth not watch over them, that the wolves enter not and devour his flock? And behold, if a wolf enter his flock doth he not drive him out? Yea, and at the last, if he can, he will destroy him.

60 And now I say unto you that the good shepherd doth call after you; and if you will hearken unto his voice he will bring you into his fold, and ye are his sheep; and he commandeth you that ye suffer no ravenous wolf to enter among you, that ye may not be destroyed.

61 And now I, Alma, do command you in the language of him who hath commanded me, that ye observe to do the words which I have spoken unto you.

62 I speak by way of command unto you that belong to the church; and unto those who do not belong to the church I speak by way of invitation, saying: Come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye also may be partakers of the fruit of the tree of life.


And in Chapter 8 he quotes the Angel of the Lord:

14 And it came to pass that while he was journeying thither, being weighed down with sorrow, wading through much tribulation and anguish of soul, because of the wickedness of the people who were in the city of Ammonihah, it came to pass while Alma was thus weighed down with sorrow, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto him, saying:

15 Blessed art thou, Alma; therefore, lift up thy head and rejoice, for thou hast great cause to rejoice; for thou hast been faithful in keeping the commandments of God from the time which thou receivedst thy first message from him. Behold, I am he that delivered it unto you.

16 And behold, I am sent to command thee that thou return to the city of Ammonihah, and preach again unto the people of the city; yea, preach unto them. Yea, say unto them, except they repent the Lord God will destroy them.

17 For behold, they do study at this time that they may destroy the liberty of thy people, (for thus saith the Lord) which is contrary to the statutes, and judgments, and commandments which he has given unto his people.

18 Now it came to pass that after Alma had received his message from the angel of the Lord he returned speedily to the land of Ammonihah. And he entered the city by another way, yea, by the way which is on the south of the city of Ammonihah.

29 And the word came to Alma, saying: Go; and also say unto my servant Amulek, go forth and prophesy unto this people, saying—Repent ye, for thus saith the Lord, except ye repent I will visit this people in mine anger; yea, and I will not turn my fierce anger away.

30 And Alma went forth, and also Amulek, among the people, to declare the words of God unto them; and they were filled with the Holy Ghost.

31 And they had power given unto them, insomuch that they could not be confined in dungeons; neither was it possible that any man could slay them; nevertheless they did not exercise their power until they were bound in bands and cast into prison. Now, this was done that the Lord might show forth his power in them.

32 And it came to pass that they went forth and began to preach and to prophesy unto the people, according to the spirit and power which the Lord had given them.

And in Chapter 9:

21 Having been visited by the Spirit of God; having conversed with angels, and having been spoken unto by the voice of the Lord; and having the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and also many gifts, the gift of speaking with tongues, and the gift of preaching, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the gift of translation;

And Amulek in Chapter 10:

7 As I was journeying to see a very near kindred, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto me and said: Amulek, return to thine own house, for thou shalt feed a prophet of the Lord; yea, a holy man, who is a chosen man of God; for he has fasted many days because of the sins of this people, and he is an hungered, and thou shalt receive him into thy house and feed him, and he shall bless thee and thy house; and the blessing of the Lord shall rest upon thee and thy house.

8 And it came to pass that I obeyed the voice of the angel, and returned towards my house. And as I was going thither I found the man whom the angel said unto me: Thou shalt receive into thy house—and behold it was this same man who has been speaking unto you concerning the things of God.

9 And the angel said unto me he is a holy man; wherefore I know he is a holy man because it was said by an angel of God.

10 And again, I know that the things whereof he hath testified are true; for behold I say unto you, that as the Lord liveth, even so has he sent his angel to make these things manifest unto me; and this he has done while this Alma hath dwelt at my house.

We have what Alma the Younger experienced, because he himself experienced it. He had experienced actual prophetic revelation. How many times do I need to point out to you that these prophets in the scriptures have extensive resumes with numerous fruits of being prophets?

You don't want to answer the question I am asking you because you cannot answer it.

Why are the fruits of prophets we read about in scripture missing from our church leaders today?


This is the most essential, fundamental, and basic requirement of a prophet of God: He will recite the words of the Lord to him in his day for the benefit of all who live in that day.

The Brethren frequently speak like what is in Alma 5. They say what the Spirit has told them, usually not through quotes, but sometimes in that way.

However, in the moment I bore my testimony, I received another confirmation of my testimony. The Spirit said, “Your words of testimony are true.” He was testifying to me about my testimony.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994433

I testify that the Lord instructed me to select President Dallin H. Oaks and President Henry B. Eyring to serve as my counselors in the First Presidency.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647992990

Like you, I have received many messages from the Spirit over the years showing me how I could improve. Let me share a few personal examples of messages that I took to heart. These promptings have included:

Don’t raise your voice.

Organize yourself; create a daily list of things to do.

Take better care of your body by eating more fruits and vegetables.

Increase your temple attendance.

Take time to ponder before you pray.

Ask your wife for her counsel.

And be patient when driving; don’t exceed the speed limit. (I’m still working on that last one.)

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994515

During the Saturday session of the conference, as President Monson stood to speak, the Spirit whispered, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”3

“His notes became a blur. He attempted to pursue the theme of the meeting as outlined, but the name and image of [the little girl] would not leave his mind.”4

He listened to the Spirit and rearranged his schedule. Early the next morning, President Monson left the ninety and nine and traveled many miles to be at the bedside of the one.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994620

Elder Maxwell “had a sacred experience” in which “the soul voice of the Spirit came into his mind to whisper, ‘I have given you leukemia that you might teach my people with authenticity.’"

https://magazine.byu.edu/article/preach ... use-words/


None of this evidence. Anyone can claim anything they want. Again, only the Spirit matters.

The rest of what you quoted is not from sermons. As I said, it appears that Alma kept his experiences sacred and did not openly discuss most of his experiences. Again, what Alma preached was that he had been ordained and that the Spirit confirmed things to him. That's exactly what we are taught now.

All of these things you posted are examples of personal revelation for their own lives. I've experienced these kinds of revelation. But I'm not a prophet. I think you're missing the point. What makes them a prophet of the world? Where are the words of Christ when they asked Him about the pandemic? The clotshots were a bust. But RMN said it was a "literal Godsend". How can he be wrong when speaking for the Lord? Is that sort of thing possible? Is it possible that even they can be deceived when they think that they are receiving revelation that isn't actually revelation? They still haven't said "Thus saith the Lord"in over 200 years. Why not? Why was President Woodruff the last one to do it?

He wasn't wrong. It was a godsend.

He does receive revelation for the church. He made huge changes to prepare for the lockdown. He moved to the idea of a home centered church before that was even on the horizon. He changed us to ministering, which could be done more easily in lockdown. He moved us out of scouting, which couldn't be done in lockdown, to a system of personal goals and achievement.

I don't know why I would need a particular phrase to be used. Either something is from God or it isn't. Someone else saying it is doesn't make it so. I really don't care how they phrase anything. Again, the spirit is what is important, not a magical phrase.

[David13]

Alma 5 is awesome. He speaks the words of the Lord in this chapter. Did you forget that he did? You posted a single scripture, but forgot the rest of it.


The following IN RED (From Alma ch 5) are QUOTES not of himself, but directly from heaven. Once again, these are FRUITS. These are EVIDENCE. Something our church leaders DO NOT HAVE:

47 And moreover, I say unto you that it has thus been revealed unto me, that the words which have been spoken by our fathers are true, even so according to the spirit of prophecy which is in me, which is also by the manifestation of the Spirit of God.

48 I say unto you, that I know of myself that whatsoever I shall say unto you, concerning that which is to come, is true; and I say unto you, that I know that Jesus Christ shall come, yea, the Son, the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace, and mercy, and truth. And behold, it is he that cometh to take away the sins of the world, yea, the sins of every man who steadfastly believeth on his name.

49 And now I say unto you that this is the order after which I am called, yea, to preach unto my beloved brethren, yea, and every one that dwelleth in the land; yea, to preach unto all, both old and young, both bond and free; yea, I say unto you the aged, and also the middle aged, and the rising generation; yea, to cry unto them that they must repent and be born again.

50 Yea, thus saith the Spirit: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand; yea, the Son of God cometh in his glory, in his might, majesty, power, and dominion. Yea, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, that the Spirit saith: Behold the glory of the King of all the earth; and also the King of heaven shall very soon shine forth among all the children of men.

51 And also the Spirit saith unto me, yea, crieth unto me with a mighty voice, saying: Go forth and say unto this people—Repent, for except ye repent ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of heaven.

52 And again I say unto you, the Spirit saith: Behold, the ax is laid at the root of the tree; therefore every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire, yea, a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fire. Behold, and remember, the Holy One hath spoken it.

53 And now my beloved brethren, I say unto you, can ye withstand these sayings; yea, can ye lay aside these things, and trample the Holy One under your feet; yea, can ye be puffed up in the pride of your hearts; yea, will ye still persist in the wearing of costly apparel and setting your hearts upon the vain things of the world, upon your riches?

54 Yea, will ye persist in supposing that ye are better one than another; yea, will ye persist in the persecution of your brethren, who humble themselves and do walk after the holy order of God, wherewith they have been brought into this church, having been sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and they do bring forth works which are meet for repentance—

55 Yea, and will you persist in turning your backs upon the poor, and the needy, and in withholding your substance from them?

56 And finally, all ye that will persist in your wickedness, I say unto you that these are they who shall be hewn down and cast into the fire except they speedily repent.

57 And now I say unto you, all you that are desirous to follow the voice of the good shepherd, come ye out from the wicked, and be ye separate, and touch not their unclean things; and behold, their names shall be blotted out, that the names of the wicked shall not be numbered among the names of the righteous, that the word of God may be fulfilled, which saith: The names of the wicked shall not be mingled with the names of my people;

58 For the names of the righteous shall be written in the book of life, and unto them will I grant an inheritance at my right hand. And now, my brethren, what have ye to say against this? I say unto you, if ye speak against it, it matters not, for the word of God must be fulfilled.

59 For what shepherd is there among you having many sheep doth not watch over them, that the wolves enter not and devour his flock? And behold, if a wolf enter his flock doth he not drive him out? Yea, and at the last, if he can, he will destroy him.

60 And now I say unto you that the good shepherd doth call after you; and if you will hearken unto his voice he will bring you into his fold, and ye are his sheep; and he commandeth you that ye suffer no ravenous wolf to enter among you, that ye may not be destroyed.

61 And now I, Alma, do command you in the language of him who hath commanded me, that ye observe to do the words which I have spoken unto you.

62 I speak by way of command unto you that belong to the church; and unto those who do not belong to the church I speak by way of invitation, saying: Come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye also may be partakers of the fruit of the tree of life.


And in Chapter 8 he quotes the Angel of the Lord:

14 And it came to pass that while he was journeying thither, being weighed down with sorrow, wading through much tribulation and anguish of soul, because of the wickedness of the people who were in the city of Ammonihah, it came to pass while Alma was thus weighed down with sorrow, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto him, saying:

15 Blessed art thou, Alma; therefore, lift up thy head and rejoice, for thou hast great cause to rejoice; for thou hast been faithful in keeping the commandments of God from the time which thou receivedst thy first message from him. Behold, I am he that delivered it unto you.

16 And behold, I am sent to command thee that thou return to the city of Ammonihah, and preach again unto the people of the city; yea, preach unto them. Yea, say unto them, except they repent the Lord God will destroy them.

17 For behold, they do study at this time that they may destroy the liberty of thy people, (for thus saith the Lord) which is contrary to the statutes, and judgments, and commandments which he has given unto his people.

18 Now it came to pass that after Alma had received his message from the angel of the Lord he returned speedily to the land of Ammonihah. And he entered the city by another way, yea, by the way which is on the south of the city of Ammonihah.

29 And the word came to Alma, saying: Go; and also say unto my servant Amulek, go forth and prophesy unto this people, saying—Repent ye, for thus saith the Lord, except ye repent I will visit this people in mine anger; yea, and I will not turn my fierce anger away.

30 And Alma went forth, and also Amulek, among the people, to declare the words of God unto them; and they were filled with the Holy Ghost.

31 And they had power given unto them, insomuch that they could not be confined in dungeons; neither was it possible that any man could slay them; nevertheless they did not exercise their power until they were bound in bands and cast into prison. Now, this was done that the Lord might show forth his power in them.

32 And it came to pass that they went forth and began to preach and to prophesy unto the people, according to the spirit and power which the Lord had given them.

And in Chapter 9:

21 Having been visited by the Spirit of God; having conversed with angels, and having been spoken unto by the voice of the Lord; and having the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and also many gifts, the gift of speaking with tongues, and the gift of preaching, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the gift of translation;

And Amulek in Chapter 10:

7 As I was journeying to see a very near kindred, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto me and said: Amulek, return to thine own house, for thou shalt feed a prophet of the Lord; yea, a holy man, who is a chosen man of God; for he has fasted many days because of the sins of this people, and he is an hungered, and thou shalt receive him into thy house and feed him, and he shall bless thee and thy house; and the blessing of the Lord shall rest upon thee and thy house.

8 And it came to pass that I obeyed the voice of the angel, and returned towards my house. And as I was going thither I found the man whom the angel said unto me: Thou shalt receive into thy house—and behold it was this same man who has been speaking unto you concerning the things of God.

9 And the angel said unto me he is a holy man; wherefore I know he is a holy man because it was said by an angel of God.

10 And again, I know that the things whereof he hath testified are true; for behold I say unto you, that as the Lord liveth, even so has he sent his angel to make these things manifest unto me; and this he has done while this Alma hath dwelt at my house.

We have what Alma the Younger experienced, because he himself experienced it. He had experienced actual prophetic revelation. How many times do I need to point out to you that these prophets in the scriptures have extensive resumes with numerous fruits of being prophets?

You don't want to answer the question I am asking you because you cannot answer it.

Why are the fruits of prophets we read about in scripture missing from our church leaders today?


This is the most essential, fundamental, and basic requirement of a prophet of God: He will recite the words of the Lord to him in his day for the benefit of all who live in that day.

The Brethren frequently speak like what is in Alma 5. They say what the Spirit has told them, usually not through quotes, but sometimes in that way.

However, in the moment I bore my testimony, I received another confirmation of my testimony. The Spirit said, “Your words of testimony are true.” He was testifying to me about my testimony.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994433

I testify that the Lord instructed me to select President Dallin H. Oaks and President Henry B. Eyring to serve as my counselors in the First Presidency.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647992990

Like you, I have received many messages from the Spirit over the years showing me how I could improve. Let me share a few personal examples of messages that I took to heart. These promptings have included:

Don’t raise your voice.

Organize yourself; create a daily list of things to do.

Take better care of your body by eating more fruits and vegetables.

Increase your temple attendance.

Take time to ponder before you pray.

Ask your wife for her counsel.

And be patient when driving; don’t exceed the speed limit. (I’m still working on that last one.)

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994515

During the Saturday session of the conference, as President Monson stood to speak, the Spirit whispered, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”3

“His notes became a blur. He attempted to pursue the theme of the meeting as outlined, but the name and image of [the little girl] would not leave his mind.”4

He listened to the Spirit and rearranged his schedule. Early the next morning, President Monson left the ninety and nine and traveled many miles to be at the bedside of the one.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994620

Elder Maxwell “had a sacred experience” in which “the soul voice of the Spirit came into his mind to whisper, ‘I have given you leukemia that you might teach my people with authenticity.’"

https://magazine.byu.edu/article/preach ... use-words/


None of this evidence. Anyone can claim anything they want. Again, only the Spirit matters.

The rest of what you quoted is not from sermons. As I said, it appears that Alma kept his experiences sacred and did not openly discuss most of his experiences. Again, what Alma preached was that he had been ordained and that the Spirit confirmed things to him. That's exactly what we are taught now.

All of these things you posted are examples of personal revelation for their own lives. I've experienced these kinds of revelation. But I'm not a prophet. I think you're missing the point. What makes them a prophet of the world? Where are the words of Christ when they asked Him about the pandemic? The clotshots were a bust. But RMN said it was a "literal Godsend". How can he be wrong when speaking for the Lord? Is that sort of thing possible? Is it possible that even they can be deceived when they think that they are receiving revelation that isn't actually revelation? They still haven't said "Thus saith the Lord"in over 200 years. Why not? Why was President Woodruff the last one to do it?

He wasn't wrong. It was a godsend.

He does receive revelation ...

...

It was a godsend? Well, yes, from the god of this world.

Now, do you know who that is?

Or, have you not yet learned that?

As to repentance, I sure haven't heard a word about that in a very long time.
dc

[InfoWarrior82]

Alma 5 is awesome. He speaks the words of the Lord in this chapter. Did you forget that he did? You posted a single scripture, but forgot the rest of it.


The following IN RED (From Alma ch 5) are QUOTES not of himself, but directly from heaven. Once again, these are FRUITS. These are EVIDENCE. Something our church leaders DO NOT HAVE:

47 And moreover, I say unto you that it has thus been revealed unto me, that the words which have been spoken by our fathers are true, even so according to the spirit of prophecy which is in me, which is also by the manifestation of the Spirit of God.

48 I say unto you, that I know of myself that whatsoever I shall say unto you, concerning that which is to come, is true; and I say unto you, that I know that Jesus Christ shall come, yea, the Son, the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace, and mercy, and truth. And behold, it is he that cometh to take away the sins of the world, yea, the sins of every man who steadfastly believeth on his name.

49 And now I say unto you that this is the order after which I am called, yea, to preach unto my beloved brethren, yea, and every one that dwelleth in the land; yea, to preach unto all, both old and young, both bond and free; yea, I say unto you the aged, and also the middle aged, and the rising generation; yea, to cry unto them that they must repent and be born again.

50 Yea, thus saith the Spirit: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand; yea, the Son of God cometh in his glory, in his might, majesty, power, and dominion. Yea, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, that the Spirit saith: Behold the glory of the King of all the earth; and also the King of heaven shall very soon shine forth among all the children of men.

51 And also the Spirit saith unto me, yea, crieth unto me with a mighty voice, saying: Go forth and say unto this people—Repent, for except ye repent ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of heaven.

52 And again I say unto you, the Spirit saith: Behold, the ax is laid at the root of the tree; therefore every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be hewn down and cast into the fire, yea, a fire which cannot be consumed, even an unquenchable fire. Behold, and remember, the Holy One hath spoken it.

53 And now my beloved brethren, I say unto you, can ye withstand these sayings; yea, can ye lay aside these things, and trample the Holy One under your feet; yea, can ye be puffed up in the pride of your hearts; yea, will ye still persist in the wearing of costly apparel and setting your hearts upon the vain things of the world, upon your riches?

54 Yea, will ye persist in supposing that ye are better one than another; yea, will ye persist in the persecution of your brethren, who humble themselves and do walk after the holy order of God, wherewith they have been brought into this church, having been sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and they do bring forth works which are meet for repentance—

55 Yea, and will you persist in turning your backs upon the poor, and the needy, and in withholding your substance from them?

56 And finally, all ye that will persist in your wickedness, I say unto you that these are they who shall be hewn down and cast into the fire except they speedily repent.

57 And now I say unto you, all you that are desirous to follow the voice of the good shepherd, come ye out from the wicked, and be ye separate, and touch not their unclean things; and behold, their names shall be blotted out, that the names of the wicked shall not be numbered among the names of the righteous, that the word of God may be fulfilled, which saith: The names of the wicked shall not be mingled with the names of my people;

58 For the names of the righteous shall be written in the book of life, and unto them will I grant an inheritance at my right hand. And now, my brethren, what have ye to say against this? I say unto you, if ye speak against it, it matters not, for the word of God must be fulfilled.

59 For what shepherd is there among you having many sheep doth not watch over them, that the wolves enter not and devour his flock? And behold, if a wolf enter his flock doth he not drive him out? Yea, and at the last, if he can, he will destroy him.

60 And now I say unto you that the good shepherd doth call after you; and if you will hearken unto his voice he will bring you into his fold, and ye are his sheep; and he commandeth you that ye suffer no ravenous wolf to enter among you, that ye may not be destroyed.

61 And now I, Alma, do command you in the language of him who hath commanded me, that ye observe to do the words which I have spoken unto you.

62 I speak by way of command unto you that belong to the church; and unto those who do not belong to the church I speak by way of invitation, saying: Come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye also may be partakers of the fruit of the tree of life.


And in Chapter 8 he quotes the Angel of the Lord:

14 And it came to pass that while he was journeying thither, being weighed down with sorrow, wading through much tribulation and anguish of soul, because of the wickedness of the people who were in the city of Ammonihah, it came to pass while Alma was thus weighed down with sorrow, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto him, saying:

15 Blessed art thou, Alma; therefore, lift up thy head and rejoice, for thou hast great cause to rejoice; for thou hast been faithful in keeping the commandments of God from the time which thou receivedst thy first message from him. Behold, I am he that delivered it unto you.

16 And behold, I am sent to command thee that thou return to the city of Ammonihah, and preach again unto the people of the city; yea, preach unto them. Yea, say unto them, except they repent the Lord God will destroy them.

17 For behold, they do study at this time that they may destroy the liberty of thy people, (for thus saith the Lord) which is contrary to the statutes, and judgments, and commandments which he has given unto his people.

18 Now it came to pass that after Alma had received his message from the angel of the Lord he returned speedily to the land of Ammonihah. And he entered the city by another way, yea, by the way which is on the south of the city of Ammonihah.

29 And the word came to Alma, saying: Go; and also say unto my servant Amulek, go forth and prophesy unto this people, saying—Repent ye, for thus saith the Lord, except ye repent I will visit this people in mine anger; yea, and I will not turn my fierce anger away.

30 And Alma went forth, and also Amulek, among the people, to declare the words of God unto them; and they were filled with the Holy Ghost.

31 And they had power given unto them, insomuch that they could not be confined in dungeons; neither was it possible that any man could slay them; nevertheless they did not exercise their power until they were bound in bands and cast into prison. Now, this was done that the Lord might show forth his power in them.

32 And it came to pass that they went forth and began to preach and to prophesy unto the people, according to the spirit and power which the Lord had given them.

And in Chapter 9:

21 Having been visited by the Spirit of God; having conversed with angels, and having been spoken unto by the voice of the Lord; and having the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and also many gifts, the gift of speaking with tongues, and the gift of preaching, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the gift of translation;

And Amulek in Chapter 10:

7 As I was journeying to see a very near kindred, behold an angel of the Lord appeared unto me and said: Amulek, return to thine own house, for thou shalt feed a prophet of the Lord; yea, a holy man, who is a chosen man of God; for he has fasted many days because of the sins of this people, and he is an hungered, and thou shalt receive him into thy house and feed him, and he shall bless thee and thy house; and the blessing of the Lord shall rest upon thee and thy house.

8 And it came to pass that I obeyed the voice of the angel, and returned towards my house. And as I was going thither I found the man whom the angel said unto me: Thou shalt receive into thy house—and behold it was this same man who has been speaking unto you concerning the things of God.

9 And the angel said unto me he is a holy man; wherefore I know he is a holy man because it was said by an angel of God.

10 And again, I know that the things whereof he hath testified are true; for behold I say unto you, that as the Lord liveth, even so has he sent his angel to make these things manifest unto me; and this he has done while this Alma hath dwelt at my house.

We have what Alma the Younger experienced, because he himself experienced it. He had experienced actual prophetic revelation. How many times do I need to point out to you that these prophets in the scriptures have extensive resumes with numerous fruits of being prophets?

You don't want to answer the question I am asking you because you cannot answer it.

Why are the fruits of prophets we read about in scripture missing from our church leaders today?


This is the most essential, fundamental, and basic requirement of a prophet of God: He will recite the words of the Lord to him in his day for the benefit of all who live in that day.

The Brethren frequently speak like what is in Alma 5. They say what the Spirit has told them, usually not through quotes, but sometimes in that way.

However, in the moment I bore my testimony, I received another confirmation of my testimony. The Spirit said, “Your words of testimony are true.” He was testifying to me about my testimony.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994433

I testify that the Lord instructed me to select President Dallin H. Oaks and President Henry B. Eyring to serve as my counselors in the First Presidency.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647992990

Like you, I have received many messages from the Spirit over the years showing me how I could improve. Let me share a few personal examples of messages that I took to heart. These promptings have included:

Don’t raise your voice.

Organize yourself; create a daily list of things to do.

Take better care of your body by eating more fruits and vegetables.

Increase your temple attendance.

Take time to ponder before you pray.

Ask your wife for her counsel.

And be patient when driving; don’t exceed the speed limit. (I’m still working on that last one.)

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994515

During the Saturday session of the conference, as President Monson stood to speak, the Spirit whispered, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”3

“His notes became a blur. He attempted to pursue the theme of the meeting as outlined, but the name and image of [the little girl] would not leave his mind.”4

He listened to the Spirit and rearranged his schedule. Early the next morning, President Monson left the ninety and nine and traveled many miles to be at the bedside of the one.

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994620

Elder Maxwell “had a sacred experience” in which “the soul voice of the Spirit came into his mind to whisper, ‘I have given you leukemia that you might teach my people with authenticity.’"

https://magazine.byu.edu/article/preach ... use-words/


None of this evidence. Anyone can claim anything they want. Again, only the Spirit matters.

The rest of what you quoted is not from sermons. As I said, it appears that Alma kept his experiences sacred and did not openly discuss most of his experiences. Again, what Alma preached was that he had been ordained and that the Spirit confirmed things to him. That's exactly what we are taught now.

All of these things you posted are examples of personal revelation for their own lives. I've experienced these kinds of revelation. But I'm not a prophet. I think you're missing the point. What makes them a prophet of the world? Where are the words of Christ when they asked Him about the pandemic? The clotshots were a bust. But RMN said it was a "literal Godsend". How can he be wrong when speaking for the Lord? Is that sort of thing possible? Is it possible that even they can be deceived when they think that they are receiving revelation that isn't actually revelation? They still haven't said "Thus saith the Lord"in over 200 years. Why not? Why was President Woodruff the last one to do it?

He wasn't wrong. It was a godsend.

He does receive revelation for the church. He made huge changes to prepare for the lockdown. He moved to the idea of a home centered church before that was even on the horizon. He changed us to ministering, which could be done more easily in lockdown. He moved us out of scouting, which couldn't be done in lockdown, to a system of personal goals and achievement.

I don't know why I would need a particular phrase to be used. Either something is from God or it isn't. Someone else saying it is doesn't make it so. I really don't care how they phrase anything. Again, the spirit is what is important, not a magical phrase.

God would send a substance, when injected into your body, will cause people to be permanently maimed and killed? And then God would tell His prophet to boldly (with a smile) tell everyone to go get it?


NO.


You are insane for thinking God sent this. It is evil. Pure evil. Produced by evil people. Not God.


President Nelson knew this was coming, but not through the Lord. He knew this was coming from his friends in the great and spacious building. President Nelson joined with Satan's church and covenanted with them. Our church officially joined with the United Nations "Multi Faith Interagency Task Force on Religion" in 2018 that pledges to uphold and implement Satanic Agenda 2030 and everything that comes with it.


https://rumble.com/vkbind-video-found-d ... n-in-.html

VIDEO FOUND: Dr. Fauci predicts a "surprise outbreak" would be coming soon (in 2017)

[Artaxerxes]

The Brethren frequently speak like what is in Alma 5. They say what the Spirit has told them, usually not through quotes, but sometimes in that way.



https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994433


https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647992990


https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994515


https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994620


https://magazine.byu.edu/article/preach ... use-words/


None of this evidence. Anyone can claim anything they want. Again, only the Spirit matters.

The rest of what you quoted is not from sermons. As I said, it appears that Alma kept his experiences sacred and did not openly discuss most of his experiences. Again, what Alma preached was that he had been ordained and that the Spirit confirmed things to him. That's exactly what we are taught now.

All of these things you posted are examples of personal revelation for their own lives. I've experienced these kinds of revelation. But I'm not a prophet. I think you're missing the point. What makes them a prophet of the world? Where are the words of Christ when they asked Him about the pandemic? The clotshots were a bust. But RMN said it was a "literal Godsend". How can he be wrong when speaking for the Lord? Is that sort of thing possible? Is it possible that even they can be deceived when they think that they are receiving revelation that isn't actually revelation? They still haven't said "Thus saith the Lord"in over 200 years. Why not? Why was President Woodruff the last one to do it?

He wasn't wrong. It was a godsend.

He does receive revelation ...

...

It was a godsend? Well, yes, from the god of this world.

Now, do you know who that is?

Or, have you not yet learned that?

As to repentance, I sure haven't heard a word about that in a very long time.
dc

If you haven't heard them preach repentance then you haven't been listening. At all.

In this most recent conference, we had Brad Wilcox's entire talk,

Christofferson

Despite our present imperfections, however, we can still hope to attain “a name and standing,” a place, in His Church and in the celestial world. After making it clear that He cannot excuse or wink at sin, the Lord assures us:
“Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven.”
“And as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me.”
Repentance and divine grace resolve the dilemma:

Dunn

Nothing is more liberating, more ennobling, or more crucial to our individual progression than is a regular, daily focus on repentance. Repentance is not an event; it is a process. It is the key to happiness and peace of mind. When coupled with faith, repentance opens our access to the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ

Meredith

Sometimes our sinking comes because of our mistakes and transgressions. If you find yourself sinking for those reasons, make the joyful choice to repent. I believe that few things give the Savior more joy than saving those who turn, or return, to Him. The scriptures are full of stories of people who were once fallen and flawed but who repented and became firm in the faith of Christ.

Oaks

Growth means change. In spiritual terms this means repenting and seeking to draw nearer to the Lord.

I mean, there are few things taught more than repentance. But you have to actually listen.

[Artaxerxes]

The Brethren frequently speak like what is in Alma 5. They say what the Spirit has told them, usually not through quotes, but sometimes in that way.



https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994433


https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647992990


https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994515


https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 1647994620


https://magazine.byu.edu/article/preach ... use-words/


None of this evidence. Anyone can claim anything they want. Again, only the Spirit matters.

The rest of what you quoted is not from sermons. As I said, it appears that Alma kept his experiences sacred and did not openly discuss most of his experiences. Again, what Alma preached was that he had been ordained and that the Spirit confirmed things to him. That's exactly what we are taught now.

All of these things you posted are examples of personal revelation for their own lives. I've experienced these kinds of revelation. But I'm not a prophet. I think you're missing the point. What makes them a prophet of the world? Where are the words of Christ when they asked Him about the pandemic? The clotshots were a bust. But RMN said it was a "literal Godsend". How can he be wrong when speaking for the Lord? Is that sort of thing possible? Is it possible that even they can be deceived when they think that they are receiving revelation that isn't actually revelation? They still haven't said "Thus saith the Lord"in over 200 years. Why not? Why was President Woodruff the last one to do it?

He wasn't wrong. It was a godsend.

He does receive revelation for the church. He made huge changes to prepare for the lockdown. He moved to the idea of a home centered church before that was even on the horizon. He changed us to ministering, which could be done more easily in lockdown. He moved us out of scouting, which couldn't be done in lockdown, to a system of personal goals and achievement.

I don't know why I would need a particular phrase to be used. Either something is from God or it isn't. Someone else saying it is doesn't make it so. I really don't care how they phrase anything. Again, the spirit is what is important, not a magical phrase.

God would send a substance, when injected into your body, will cause people to be permanently maimed and killed? And then God would tell His prophet to boldly (with a smile) tell everyone to go get it?


NO.


You are insane for thinking God sent this. It is evil. Pure evil. Produced by evil people. Not God.


President Nelson knew this was coming, but not through the Lord. He knew this was coming from his friends in the great and spacious building. President Nelson joined with Satan's church and covenanted with them. Our church officially joined with the United Nations "Multi Faith Interagency Task Force on Religion" in 2018 that pledges to uphold and implement Satanic Agenda 2030 and everything that comes with it.


https://rumble.com/vkbind-video-found-d ... n-in-.html

VIDEO FOUND: Dr. Fauci predicts a "surprise outbreak" would be coming soon (in 2017)

Fortunately it isn't killing and maiming people, so that's good news.

So you know that Pres. Nelson foretold events, you just made the decision to explain it away.

"Where has he done the kinds of things a prophet would do?"

Here you go.

"THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!"

And this is why I have continuously said that the Spirit is the ONLY way to know. Everything else can be explained away. People will make all kinds of claims. That will never be enough. The Spirit is all we need or can want.

[InfoWarrior82]

All of these things you posted are examples of personal revelation for their own lives. I've experienced these kinds of revelation. But I'm not a prophet. I think you're missing the point. What makes them a prophet of the world? Where are the words of Christ when they asked Him about the pandemic? The clotshots were a bust. But RMN said it was a "literal Godsend". How can he be wrong when speaking for the Lord? Is that sort of thing possible? Is it possible that even they can be deceived when they think that they are receiving revelation that isn't actually revelation? They still haven't said "Thus saith the Lord"in over 200 years. Why not? Why was President Woodruff the last one to do it?

He wasn't wrong. It was a godsend.

He does receive revelation for the church. He made huge changes to prepare for the lockdown. He moved to the idea of a home centered church before that was even on the horizon. He changed us to ministering, which could be done more easily in lockdown. He moved us out of scouting, which couldn't be done in lockdown, to a system of personal goals and achievement.

I don't know why I would need a particular phrase to be used. Either something is from God or it isn't. Someone else saying it is doesn't make it so. I really don't care how they phrase anything. Again, the spirit is what is important, not a magical phrase.

God would send a substance, when injected into your body, will cause people to be permanently maimed and killed? And then God would tell His prophet to boldly (with a smile) tell everyone to go get it?


NO.


You are insane for thinking God sent this. It is evil. Pure evil. Produced by evil people. Not God.


President Nelson knew this was coming, but not through the Lord. He knew this was coming from his friends in the great and spacious building. President Nelson joined with Satan's church and covenanted with them. Our church officially joined with the United Nations "Multi Faith Interagency Task Force on Religion" in 2018 that pledges to uphold and implement Satanic Agenda 2030 and everything that comes with it.


https://rumble.com/vkbind-video-found-d ... n-in-.html

VIDEO FOUND: Dr. Fauci predicts a "surprise outbreak" would be coming soon (in 2017)

Fortunately it isn't killing and maiming people, so that's good news.

So you know that Pres. Nelson foretold events, you just made the decision to explain it away.

"Where has he done the kinds of things a prophet would do?"

Here you go.

"THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!"

And this is why I have continuously said that the Spirit is the ONLY way to know. Everything else can be explained away. People will make all kinds of claims. That will never be enough. The Spirit is all we need or can want.

Fortunately it isn't killing and maiming people, so that's good news.

Nice attempt at gaslighting. I give you a 4/10. Good effort, but lacks conviction.

https://www.bitchute.com/search/?query= ... kind=video

https://www.bitchute.com/search/?query= ... kind=video

Are you going to deny your eyes and ears? You can scroll for hours and hours and hours.

So you know that Pres. Nelson foretold events, you just made the decision to explain it away.

"Where has he done the kinds of things a prophet would do?"

Here you go.

"THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!"

You literally just posted examples of the average personal revelation experience that anyone can have on any given day.


What's more, when it comes to prophecy... President Nelson said during GC that he had no idea a pandemic was coming. Which is it? Did he have prior knowledge, or did he not?

[Artaxerxes]

He wasn't wrong. It was a godsend.

He does receive revelation for the church. He made huge changes to prepare for the lockdown. He moved to the idea of a home centered church before that was even on the horizon. He changed us to ministering, which could be done more easily in lockdown. He moved us out of scouting, which couldn't be done in lockdown, to a system of personal goals and achievement.

I don't know why I would need a particular phrase to be used. Either something is from God or it isn't. Someone else saying it is doesn't make it so. I really don't care how they phrase anything. Again, the spirit is what is important, not a magical phrase.

God would send a substance, when injected into your body, will cause people to be permanently maimed and killed? And then God would tell His prophet to boldly (with a smile) tell everyone to go get it?


NO.


You are insane for thinking God sent this. It is evil. Pure evil. Produced by evil people. Not God.


President Nelson knew this was coming, but not through the Lord. He knew this was coming from his friends in the great and spacious building. President Nelson joined with Satan's church and covenanted with them. Our church officially joined with the United Nations "Multi Faith Interagency Task Force on Religion" in 2018 that pledges to uphold and implement Satanic Agenda 2030 and everything that comes with it.


https://rumble.com/vkbind-video-found-d ... n-in-.html

VIDEO FOUND: Dr. Fauci predicts a "surprise outbreak" would be coming soon (in 2017)

Fortunately it isn't killing and maiming people, so that's good news.

So you know that Pres. Nelson foretold events, you just made the decision to explain it away.

"Where has he done the kinds of things a prophet would do?"

Here you go.

"THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!"

And this is why I have continuously said that the Spirit is the ONLY way to know. Everything else can be explained away. People will make all kinds of claims. That will never be enough. The Spirit is all we need or can want.

Fortunately it isn't killing and maiming people, so that's good news.

Nice attempt at gaslighting. I give you a 4/10. Good effort, but lacks conviction.

https://www.bitchute.com/search/?query= ... kind=video

https://www.bitchute.com/search/?query= ... kind=video

Are you going to deny your eyes and ears? You can scroll for hours and hours and hours.

So you know that Pres. Nelson foretold events, you just made the decision to explain it away.

"Where has he done the kinds of things a prophet would do?"

Here you go.

"THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!"

You literally just posted examples of the average personal revelation experience that anyone can have on any given day.


What's more, when it comes to prophecy... President Nelson said during GC that he had no idea a pandemic was coming. Which is it? Did he have prior knowledge, or did he not?

I know that there are people making money from lying about the vax. That doesn't particularly trouble me.

I think you misunderstand what it is to be led by the spirit. As Nephi described "I was led by the Spirit, not knowing beforehand the things which I should do."

Your response to Nephi would be "Well, which is it? Did the spirit tell you where to go or not?" The answer is, of course, that he was directed what to do. That's exactly what happened with Pres. Nelson. He was directed, but didn't know everything, which is exactly what happens to all prophets.

But again, everything a prophet does can be explained away. People explain away the BoM, angelic visitations, and everything else. None of it will ever prove that someone is a prophet. That will ONLY come from the spirit. That's it.

[InfoWarrior82]

God would send a substance, when injected into your body, will cause people to be permanently maimed and killed? And then God would tell His prophet to boldly (with a smile) tell everyone to go get it?


NO.


You are insane for thinking God sent this. It is evil. Pure evil. Produced by evil people. Not God.


President Nelson knew this was coming, but not through the Lord. He knew this was coming from his friends in the great and spacious building. President Nelson joined with Satan's church and covenanted with them. Our church officially joined with the United Nations "Multi Faith Interagency Task Force on Religion" in 2018 that pledges to uphold and implement Satanic Agenda 2030 and everything that comes with it.


https://rumble.com/vkbind-video-found-d ... n-in-.html

VIDEO FOUND: Dr. Fauci predicts a "surprise outbreak" would be coming soon (in 2017)

Fortunately it isn't killing and maiming people, so that's good news.

So you know that Pres. Nelson foretold events, you just made the decision to explain it away.

"Where has he done the kinds of things a prophet would do?"

Here you go.

"THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!"

And this is why I have continuously said that the Spirit is the ONLY way to know. Everything else can be explained away. People will make all kinds of claims. That will never be enough. The Spirit is all we need or can want.

Fortunately it isn't killing and maiming people, so that's good news.

Nice attempt at gaslighting. I give you a 4/10. Good effort, but lacks conviction.

https://www.bitchute.com/search/?query= ... kind=video

https://www.bitchute.com/search/?query= ... kind=video

Are you going to deny your eyes and ears? You can scroll for hours and hours and hours.

So you know that Pres. Nelson foretold events, you just made the decision to explain it away.

"Where has he done the kinds of things a prophet would do?"

Here you go.

"THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!"

You literally just posted examples of the average personal revelation experience that anyone can have on any given day.


What's more, when it comes to prophecy... President Nelson said during GC that he had no idea a pandemic was coming. Which is it? Did he have prior knowledge, or did he not?

I know that there are people making money from lying about the vax. That doesn't particularly trouble me.

I think you misunderstand what it is to be led by the spirit. As Nephi described "I was led by the Spirit, not knowing beforehand the things which I should do."

Your response to Nephi would be "Well, which is it? Did the spirit tell you where to go or not?" The answer is, of course, that he was directed what to do. That's exactly what happened with Pres. Nelson. He was directed, but didn't know everything, which is exactly what happens to all prophets.

But again, everything a prophet does can be explained away. People explain away the BoM, angelic visitations, and everything else. None of it will ever prove that someone is a prophet. That will ONLY come from the spirit. That's it.

You think people are making money about lying about their dead loved ones? What's the lie? That they died? That they had adverse reactions? You are out of your mind.


Nephi learned to trust the Holy Spirit that he was already familiar with. Once again you are taking scriptures out of context. Nephi said this AFTER the Lord had spoken to him. AFTER he had seen an angel of the Lord. These are the evidences and fruits of a true prophet of God.

If you're going to use the scriptures to support your arguments, please know your scriptures first.

[Artaxerxes]

Fortunately it isn't killing and maiming people, so that's good news.

So you know that Pres. Nelson foretold events, you just made the decision to explain it away.

"Where has he done the kinds of things a prophet would do?"

Here you go.

"THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!"

And this is why I have continuously said that the Spirit is the ONLY way to know. Everything else can be explained away. People will make all kinds of claims. That will never be enough. The Spirit is all we need or can want.

Fortunately it isn't killing and maiming people, so that's good news.

Nice attempt at gaslighting. I give you a 4/10. Good effort, but lacks conviction.

https://www.bitchute.com/search/?query= ... kind=video

https://www.bitchute.com/search/?query= ... kind=video

Are you going to deny your eyes and ears? You can scroll for hours and hours and hours.

So you know that Pres. Nelson foretold events, you just made the decision to explain it away.

"Where has he done the kinds of things a prophet would do?"

Here you go.

"THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!"

You literally just posted examples of the average personal revelation experience that anyone can have on any given day.


What's more, when it comes to prophecy... President Nelson said during GC that he had no idea a pandemic was coming. Which is it? Did he have prior knowledge, or did he not?

I know that there are people making money from lying about the vax. That doesn't particularly trouble me.

I think you misunderstand what it is to be led by the spirit. As Nephi described "I was led by the Spirit, not knowing beforehand the things which I should do."

Your response to Nephi would be "Well, which is it? Did the spirit tell you where to go or not?" The answer is, of course, that he was directed what to do. That's exactly what happened with Pres. Nelson. He was directed, but didn't know everything, which is exactly what happens to all prophets.

But again, everything a prophet does can be explained away. People explain away the BoM, angelic visitations, and everything else. None of it will ever prove that someone is a prophet. That will ONLY come from the spirit. That's it.

You think people are making money about lying about their dead loved ones? What's the lie? That they died? That they had adverse reactions? You are out of your mind.


Nephi learned to trust the Holy Spirit that he was already familiar with. Once again you are taking scriptures out of context. Nephi said this AFTER the Lord had spoken to him. AFTER he had seen an angel of the Lord. These are the evidences and fruits of a true prophet of God.

If you're going to use the scriptures to support your arguments, please know your scriptures first.

You think that people can only trust the Spirit after they've seen an angel? That's.... something.