LDS Freedom Forum

So I was at lunch today, and discussion wended it’s way to the Boy Scouts.

A clear observation was made that the Boy Scout hierarchy is basically a pyramid scheme.

The rank and file donate their time, perform great service freely, and are a dedicated cadre of supporters.

Others, perform major fund raising efforts on an regular basis, for local participation.

Other strong arm tactics used to be employed annually in the form of the “Friends of Scouting”.
That money goes to regional and National PAID individuals.

Life gets pretty good the higher one rises in the ranks of Scout HQ Leaderships.

Major salaries, benefits and privleges are bequeathed upon the highest level of corporate officers.

So basically, the the whole organization is in the shape of a pyramid. Un-paid volunteers at the broad base. With steep walls going up to the regional and National leadership.

By the time lunch was over, we realized the Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is very similar to the same pyramid organization.

Lots and lots of members at the lowest level, funding their church attendance, and participation in activities.

The higher one goes up the leadership ladder, the nicer life becomes. Eventually at the top of HQ administration, regular “stipend” salaries, free college and university tuition, health care and a multitude of other perks and privileges are avail to the upper one tenth of one percent.

So a broad base who pays and pays, with the money rising up to the top where a hugely minuscule elite benefit.

With an accumulated largesse of $138 billion in the Babylonian stock market. How can this be the one true church organization of the Savior of those who believe on Him, and not an organization fostered by the god of this world?

Give your second coat away. Think not of tomorrow, let it take care of itself, look at the flowers in the meadow, the birds, do not they fulfill the measure of their creation?

Are we really to be so beholden to maintaining the status quo, and hope our whole working lives that our man made retirement accounts will still be there when we get old..??

How can we jettison Babylon and run to Zion when the many many small cords bind us to this worlds economy..?

Ouch. My heart (I’m not vaccinated so it’s not myocarditis).

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:33 pm So I was at lunch today, and discussion wended it’s way to the Boy Scouts.

A clear observation was made that the Boy Scout hierarchy is basically a pyramid scheme.

The rank and file donate their time, perform great service freely, and are a dedicated cadre of supporters.

Others, perform major fund raising efforts on an regular basis, for local participation.

Other strong arm tactics used to be employed annually in the form of the “Friends of Scouting”.
That money goes to regional and National PAID individuals.

Life gets pretty good the higher one rises in the ranks of Scout HQ Leaderships.

Major salaries, benefits and privleges are bequeathed upon the highest level of corporate officers.

So basically, the the whole organization is in the shape of a pyramid. Un-paid volunteers at the broad base. With steep walls going up to the regional and National leadership.

By the time lunch was over, we realized the Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is very similar to the same pyramid organization.

Lots and lots of members at the lowest level, funding their church attendance, and participation in activities.

The higher one goes up the leadership ladder, the nicer life becomes. Eventually at the top of HQ administration, regular “stipend” salaries, free college and university tuition, health care and a multitude of other perks and privileges are avail to the upper one tenth of one percent.

So a broad base who pays and pays, with the money rising up to the top where a hugely minuscule elite benefit.

With an accumulated largesse of $138 billion in the Babylonian stock market. How can this be the one true church organization of the Savior of those who believe on Him, and not an organization fostered by the god of this world?

Give your second coat away. Think not of tomorrow, let it take care of itself, look at the flowers in the meadow, the birds, do not they fulfill the measure of their creation?

Are we really to be so beholden to maintaining the status quo, and hope our whole working lives that our man made retirement accounts will still be there when we get old..??

How can we jettison Babylon and run to Zion when the many many small cords bind us to this worlds economy..?

we can't run to Zion with this level of thinking . . . this is still the Lord's church . . .many of us in the church give to bums on the street and donate money to others . . . that doensn't make us strung to anything . . . and hours of time have been spent on all kinds of volubnteer things . . .whether peronally motivated or part of a group . .

who cares what the person on the street does with the money . . . or what the "church" as you call it does with the money . . . or the boy scouts do with the money . . or any other group . . .

anyone who worries about how donated money or anyone else's money, or time, is spent is not ready for Zion . . . stop coveting other people's money . . including the church's money or the boy scout's money

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:33 pm So I was at lunch today, and discussion wended it’s way to the Boy Scouts.

A clear observation was made that the Boy Scout hierarchy is basically a pyramid scheme.

The rank and file donate their time, perform great service freely, and are a dedicated cadre of supporters.

Others, perform major fund raising efforts on an regular basis, for local participation.

Other strong arm tactics used to be employed annually in the form of the “Friends of Scouting”.
That money goes to regional and National PAID individuals.

Life gets pretty good the higher one rises in the ranks of Scout HQ Leaderships.

Major salaries, benefits and privleges are bequeathed upon the highest level of corporate officers.

So basically, the the whole organization is in the shape of a pyramid. Un-paid volunteers at the broad base. With steep walls going up to the regional and National leadership.

By the time lunch was over, we realized the Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is very similar to the same pyramid organization.

Lots and lots of members at the lowest level, funding their church attendance, and participation in activities.

The higher one goes up the leadership ladder, the nicer life becomes. Eventually at the top of HQ administration, regular “stipend” salaries, free college and university tuition, health care and a multitude of other perks and privileges are avail to the upper one tenth of one percent.

So a broad base who pays and pays, with the money rising up to the top where a hugely minuscule elite benefit.

With an accumulated largesse of $138 billion in the Babylonian stock market. How can this be the one true church organization of the Savior of those who believe on Him, and not an organization fostered by the god of this world?

Give your second coat away. Think not of tomorrow, let it take care of itself, look at the flowers in the meadow, the birds, do not they fulfill the measure of their creation?

Are we really to be so beholden to maintaining the status quo, and hope our whole working lives that our man made retirement accounts will still be there when we get old..??

How can we jettison Babylon and run to Zion when the many many small cords bind us to this worlds economy..?

What you described is a hierarchy, not a pyramid scheme.

"A pyramid scheme is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products."

Neither bsa (which I greatly dislike), not the Church meet the definition of a pyramid scheme.

endlessismyname wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:42 pm Ouch. My heart (I’m not vaccinated so it’s not myocarditis).

EvanLM wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 7:48 pm we can't run to Zion with this level of thinking . . . this is still the Lord's church

How can it be the Lord’s church if they don’t even teach His doctrine? They are not.

“…but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel.” (3 Nephi 27:8)

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 8:48 pm

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:33 pm So I was at lunch today, and discussion wended it’s way to the Boy Scouts.

A clear observation was made that the Boy Scout hierarchy is basically a pyramid scheme.

The rank and file donate their time, perform great service freely, and are a dedicated cadre of supporters.

Others, perform major fund raising efforts on an regular basis, for local participation.

Other strong arm tactics used to be employed annually in the form of the “Friends of Scouting”.
That money goes to regional and National PAID individuals.

Life gets pretty good the higher one rises in the ranks of Scout HQ Leaderships.

Major salaries, benefits and privleges are bequeathed upon the highest level of corporate officers.

So basically, the the whole organization is in the shape of a pyramid. Un-paid volunteers at the broad base. With steep walls going up to the regional and National leadership.

By the time lunch was over, we realized the Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is very similar to the same pyramid organization.

Lots and lots of members at the lowest level, funding their church attendance, and participation in activities.

The higher one goes up the leadership ladder, the nicer life becomes. Eventually at the top of HQ administration, regular “stipend” salaries, free college and university tuition, health care and a multitude of other perks and privileges are avail to the upper one tenth of one percent.

So a broad base who pays and pays, with the money rising up to the top where a hugely minuscule elite benefit.

With an accumulated largesse of $138 billion in the Babylonian stock market. How can this be the one true church organization of the Savior of those who believe on Him, and not an organization fostered by the god of this world?

Give your second coat away. Think not of tomorrow, let it take care of itself, look at the flowers in the meadow, the birds, do not they fulfill the measure of their creation?

Are we really to be so beholden to maintaining the status quo, and hope our whole working lives that our man made retirement accounts will still be there when we get old..??

How can we jettison Babylon and run to Zion when the many many small cords bind us to this worlds economy..?

What you described is a hierarchy, not a pyramid scheme.

"A pyramid scheme is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products."

Neither bsa (which I greatly dislike), not the Church meet the definition of a pyramid scheme.

Neither do many of the businesses that people call pyramids. Pyramids are illegal.

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:33 pm
Life gets pretty good the higher one rises in the ranks of Scout HQ Leaderships.

Major salaries, benefits and privleges are bequeathed upon the highest level of corporate officers.

So basically, the the whole organization is in the shape of a pyramid. Un-paid volunteers at the broad base. With steep walls going up to the regional and National leadership.

I remember listening to a podcast where a young pop artist from a middle income neighborhood in Texas couldn't live in his own hometown anymore because of his fame. For safety and privacy reasons he had to buy a more expensive house in a higher income area, there is no option to move to another middle income neighborhood. People in higher positions of companies and organizations are no different, some need body guards, bigger safer cars even private helicopters and jets.

An LDS apostle may not be so famous but their level of importance is and I would expect them to need to spent more money for safety, privacy and convenience. Think of the apostles of old, Peter/James/John all people of importance and all taken out by a jealous hateful mob. In this forum alone there is evidence that the jealous hateful mob toward Gods apostles still exist.

randyps wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 11:54 pm

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:33 pm
Life gets pretty good the higher one rises in the ranks of Scout HQ Leaderships.

Major salaries, benefits and privleges are bequeathed upon the highest level of corporate officers.

So basically, the the whole organization is in the shape of a pyramid. Un-paid volunteers at the broad base. With steep walls going up to the regional and National leadership.

I remember listening to a podcast where a young pop artist from a middle income neighborhood in Texas couldn't live in his own hometown anymore because of his fame. For safety and privacy reasons he had to buy a more expensive house in a higher income area, there is no option to move to another middle income neighborhood. People in higher positions of companies and organizations are no different, some need body guards, bigger safer cars even private helicopters and jets.

An LDS apostle may not be so famous but their level of importance is and I would expect them to need to spent more money for safety, privacy and convenience. Think of the apostles of old, Peter/James/John all people of importance and all taken out by a jealous hateful mob. In this forum alone there is evidence that the jealous hateful mob toward Gods apostles still exist.

Good grief....

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 8:48 pm What you described is a hierarchy, not a pyramid scheme.

"A pyramid scheme is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products."

Neither bsa (which I greatly dislike), not the Church meet the definition of a pyramid scheme.

Maybe it's the uncomfortable realisation that many organisations rely on unpaid labour to prop up the salaries and lifestyles of those who run them. In the case of the Scouts and LDS, fresh meat is always on the menu, and people are always being recruited with aims to expand and increase their presence within a given area.

This is certainly the case for many charities (or non-profits as you'd call them in the USA), and it is certainly the case for websites such as Wikipedia, IMDB, Duolingo etc, which have used "volunteers" to produce a product which is eventually monetised.

I don't think the Boy Scouts are quite a pyramid scheme, but they certainly have a lot more in common with one than they'd like to admit.

In the case of the church, and the Boy Scouts, the lower rungs don't exactly get money for what they do, but they do get material benefits and callings. A local Boy Scout troop (or whatever they call them these days) will get buildings, access to award/reward schemes, and virtue points in the local community.

For example in our case, there are people who want a temple in Scotland, and there have been promises we would eventually get one, but to get one, we have to make sure there are X number of MP holders, X number of temple goers (or TR holders) and so on - that means getting people recruited, money put down (in tithing) and men promoted. However, a temple for central Scotland may not be good for people in Northern Scotland, so then the process repeats there.

Fred wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 10:09 pm Neither do many of the businesses that people call pyramids. Pyramids are illegal.

That's true. Very few pyramid schemes in the pure form exist, but we can identify a few examples of things which are similar such as MLMs, the Mafia, probably even spy agencies (if you think about it - more agents, more info, more promo).

It is possible to make some money off MLMs if you know how to do it, i.e. don't recruit too much on your own patch, keep orders/targets sensible, and having decent sales skills of your own. I had a cousin who made okay money off one of them when he was younger and ended up becoming a successful businessman in his own right. So it can happen. I think you have to understand how they work, and can work for you, rather than just doing what they tell you.

Madoff style Ponzi schemes though, are rightly illegal. They cannot be maintained indefinitely.

randyps wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 11:54 pm I remember listening to a podcast where a young pop artist from a middle income neighborhood in Texas couldn't live in his own hometown anymore because of his fame. For safety and privacy reasons he had to buy a more expensive house in a higher income area, there is no option to move to another middle income neighborhood. People in higher positions of companies and organizations are no different, some need body guards, bigger safer cars even private helicopters and jets.

An LDS apostle may not be so famous but their level of importance is and I would expect them to need to spent more money for safety, privacy and convenience. Think of the apostles of old, Peter/James/John all people of importance and all taken out by a jealous hateful mob. In this forum alone there is evidence that the jealous hateful mob toward Gods apostles still exist.

There's one hole in your argument. Safety and concenience do not necessarily require moving to a bigger, more expensive home. In fact you're almost better moving to a rural property, which will be cheaper than an urban one, but it doesn't have to be Southfork Ranch. Maybe a bit of land around it so you can have a security zone to spot anyone coming in.

The disciples were as likely to be taken out by the authorities as a "hateful mob". In fact Jesus was executed by the Roman military, was he not? Possibly partly because they saw him as a political threat. None of them lived in luxury either.

The puds are at the bottom of any organization. They may even be the people that do the most work. But they certainly do not get the most pay. The CEO may earn millions or even billions. It is called getting paid for what you know.

As for true pyramids, I have been in a few. I know they are illegal. Knowing that has an allure that draw people in. The fact that they are illegal adds to the concept of why the money is so good. A true pyramid has no products. One that I was in was simply a card. It had spots for sale. When you sell the spots, you get the payout. I was able to get the payout before the law shut them down.

MLMs are not pyramids. They sell products. Nobody puts a gun to someone's head to buy product. If you get others to buy the product, you earn commissions. Nothing illegal about that. The crybabies that lie and say they lost money must have wanted an illegal pyramid, because they want to get paid without working. It is not possible to lose money in an MLM. You simply buy product. You have the products and in the USA the law requires a MLM company to offer a full money back guarantee on all products. Only a stupid person buys products that they do not want.

When the scum of the earth buy a product and then want their money back, they only prove their own incompetence. Like the line of retards at Walmart wanting their money back because they did not realize what color the product was or some other stupid reason. Imbeciles. If you don't want it, don't buy it.

When people are so incredibly stupid that laws are passed to protect them from themselves, the law was not the right answer. The right answer is a straightjacket. Like the retard that dumped gas on a fire and killed his daughter so now the rest of us have to have a nozzle that does not work.

randyps wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 11:54 pm

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:33 pm
Life gets pretty good the higher one rises in the ranks of Scout HQ Leaderships.

Major salaries, benefits and privleges are bequeathed upon the highest level of corporate officers.

So basically, the the whole organization is in the shape of a pyramid. Un-paid volunteers at the broad base. With steep walls going up to the regional and National leadership.

I remember listening to a podcast where a young pop artist from a middle income neighborhood in Texas couldn't live in his own hometown anymore because of his fame. For safety and privacy reasons he had to buy a more expensive house in a higher income area, there is no option to move to another middle income neighborhood. People in higher positions of companies and organizations are no different, some need body guards, bigger safer cars even private helicopters and jets.

An LDS apostle may not be so famous but their level of importance is and I would expect them to need to spent more money for safety, privacy and convenience. Think of the apostles of old, Peter/James/John all people of importance and all taken out by a jealous hateful mob. In this forum alone there is evidence that the jealous hateful mob toward Gods apostles still exist.

Lots of “new” defenders of the faith around here lately. Interesting.

Fred wrote: ↑March 16th, 2022, 4:18 am MLMs are not pyramids. They sell products. Nobody puts a gun to someone's head to buy product. If you get others to buy the product, you earn commissions. Nothing illegal about that. The crybabies that lie and say they lost money must have wanted an illegal pyramid, because they want to get paid without working. It is not possible to lose money in an MLM. You simply buy product. You have the products and in the USA the law requires a MLM company to offer a full money back guarantee on all products. Only a stupid person buys products that they do not want.

MLMs often quote false figures in recruitment materials. I see some claiming you can make thousands a month. I've never even known successful sellers hit those figures. Thousands a year? Not likely.

There are definitely pyramid aspects to MLMs. My mother had a friend who sold children's books in one. They were actually a high quality product, well illustrated & written, and a respectable brand (Usborne - probably not known stateside), but I was two or three years too old for them at the time. Nonetheless we did buy a couple off her, our families were friends, and we were happy to give them some business. But see if she didn't try and recruit my mother into it too ! My mother never went for it, but I could see it being a disaster if she did. My mother was never the sales person of the family - her skills were elsewhere. Plus, I and most of my own mates (including oddly enough, one of her own children's sons) were growing out of these books rapidly.

Many places here now have signs up saying "no cold calling", "no sales" etc. It's a worse and worse market because of them.

What I notice with MLMs is that while some better known ones like Kleeneze, Avon etc actually sell some respectable products, there is a lot of pressure on you to beat targets, recruit friends (which diminishes your market, since you end up competing) and so on. People often end up buying unwanted stock they can't sell. There is also the issue of repeat orders. I tend to buy casually, one off and see if I like it. MLMs are not like that, they want you to buy regularly, and join up as a seller yourself.

Ever done a scripture study on the Kingdom of God? And I don’t mean what the LDS church says about it (the kingdom is the church, Jesus needs money and property for the second coming, etc). I mean what Jesus said about the Kingdom of God in the Bible. Long story short, Jesus’ version of the Kingdom of God seems radically different in the NT than what we seem to preach nowadays. Which one is right?

If you want some bonus points, read up on Jesus’ words regarding money, the rich, and the priests in the temple who demand widows’ mites while they sit in luxury and abundance.

It takes some cognitive dissonance not to see the difference.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 16th, 2022, 8:55 am Ever done a scripture study on the Kingdom of God? And I don’t mean what the LDS church says about it (the kingdom is the church, Jesus needs money and property for the second coming, etc). I mean what Jesus said about the Kingdom of God in the Bible. Long story short, Jesus’ version of the Kingdom of God seems radically different in the NT than what we seem to preach nowadays. Which one is right?

If you want some bonus points, read up on Jesus’ words regarding money, the rich, and the priests in the temple who demand widows’ mites while they sit in luxury and abundance.

It takes some cognitive dissonance not to see the difference.

Or what Joseph taught.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=64013

randyps wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 11:54 pm In this forum alone there is evidence that the jealous hateful mob toward Gods apostles still exist.

Maybe... or maybe false beliefs, culture, doctrine, and tradition don't sit well with us.

I was a scoutmaster 4X. I loved aspects of the program and hated aspects of the program. A zion-like society (Terrestrial realm) has a far more simple hierarchy and resembles little of what the LDS church has today.

Mormonville - scam capital of the World
where people love money so much, and are so gullible - they'll believe and
DO ANYTHING TO GET IT !

and as they say "this is just the tip of the iceberg"

MLM or commonly know as" Mormons Losing Money"

Investigating links between Mormonism & MLM

I think this one especially - fits very well.
"2. Money as a blessing. Mormons may not know what the phrase “prosperity gospel” means,
but many believe in the principle that if someone has money then they must be blessed by God."


https://religionnews.com/2017/06/20/10- ... companies/

10 reasons Mormons dominate multi-level marketing companies

LipSense, dōTERRA, Nu Skin, Young Living, Nature’s Sunshine, Tahitian Noni/Morinda, Amway, Melaleuca, Neways, Thrive, Xango/Zija, Younique, Jamberry, Unicity.

If these names sound familiar to you, you probably live in Utah, the number one state in the union for multi-level marketing companies.

I admit, I have multiple issues with multi-level marketing. So many people in my ward are into one of the above companies that sometimes it feels like I have to turn someone down every day. I get invitations to “parties” every week, and just when I think one wave is over, a new wave of marketing starts up.

I was first introduced to MLMs when my aunt tried to sell my father on Amway. Then when I was a new mother, an older woman in our ward quickly tried to resolve any difficulty I had with a new baby by hawking a product from her company. And on it went, with wedding showers with an MLM on the side and visiting teaching companions peddling their wares on our visits.

I’m tired of my friendship being used as “downstream” for people who want to make a buck. I’m also tired of trying to explain science to friends who think that one personal experience with an oil or a supplement is sufficient for extolling the virtues of an unverifiable, unscientific claim for healing.

But I’m also very much aware of the reality that Mormon culture breeds these kinds of companies for a variety of reasons. Here are ten:

1. Insularity. Mormons tend to be trusting, especially of other Mormons. We tend to want to believe that other Mormons are good, because surely if they know and believe in the gospel then they want the best for other people and aren’t trying to cheat people out of money.

2. Money as a blessing. Mormons may not know what the phrase “prosperity gospel” means, but many believe in the principle that if someone has money then they must be blessed by God.

3. An unusually high number of SAHMS. Mormons encourage women to stay at home, but these days that leaves many families to struggle for any extra income. It also means that Mormon stay-at-home moms use their time to try to make money for extra things.

4. Easy mobilization. Mormons have a built-in network, complete with phone numbers, physical addresses, and emails. They may not think twice about using this information to send out invitations to their “parties” about a new product/brand that is also an MLM, even if using ward lists for business purposes is against the rules of the church.

5. Door to door experience. Former Mormon missionaries are used to sales techniques. They’re not afraid of rejection and they are sometimes very aggressive.

6. The personal touch. Mormons are used to hearing testimonials and connecting that to “deeper” truth. Some might argue this means Mormons are particularly vulnerable to anecdotal evidence.

7. Big claims. Mormons often hear people scoffing at our religious ideas, our founder, and our scripture. Because we’ve grown accustomed to that, we may be more likely to shrug off criticisms even when we shouldn’t.

8. Top-down structure. Mormons are comfortable with a hierarchical institution where people at the top know more than people at the bottom, and to paying money “up-stream.” I know this may sound like a crude way of describing tithing. But looking at it from the outside, there are certain similarities.

9. Naivete. Mormons have a tendency to believe that they are “chosen” or “special,” and may be more easily led to believe that an opportunity has come to them from God rather than dismissing things that are “too good to be true.”

10. Skimming the surface. Sadly, Mormon church meetings do not lead Mormons to ask hard questions. Instead, we may be more vulnerable to being led to ask the questions that people want us to ask. If a question/answer format is offered, we may not think more deeply.

It’s such a big problem that LDS apostle Dallin Oaks wrote a book about Mormons and Get-Rich-Quick Schemes in 1988, when he worried that members of the Church may be “specially susceptible to materialism.”

More recently, multiple news organizations have also written on the topic (see here and here). But as far as I can tell, there aren’t any significant changes happening.

My Mormon friends, this has to stop. If you are selling something, please don’t confuse that with our church. Don’t use our ward list to target people. Don’t sell your product over friendship with people. You might think it’s not a problem, but it is. I guarantee that you have friends who are pulling away because you are pushing this too hard on them and are having problems distinguishing the gospel from your MLM solutions.

I beg church leaders, bishops especially, to speak from the pulpit on this issue. Please ask ward members to keep MLMs out of church meetings and out of any church connections like home or visiting teaching.

And it would make me happy if you’d spend one of our fifth Sunday meetings on the dangers of MLMs. Bonus points if you can get an actual physician or trained medical professional to help church members learn to distinguish between scientific claims and fake claims. It would also make the ex-Mormons a little less gleeful when there’s another news story about Mormons getting cheated out of their retirement funds—like this one or that one or that one.

Utah's all-time biggest scams and frauds
By Better Business Bureau of Utah | Posted - May 30, 2018

"Online searches for fraud produce abundant references to cases with Utah connections.
In fact, there are many which refer to the Beehive State as the “fraud capital of the world."

https://www.ksl.com/article/46325540/ut ... and-frauds

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cult Education Institute

The Mormon Church
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS)

This page contains information The Cult Education Institute has
gathered about the Mormon Church.
https://culteducation.com/group/1057-th ... hurch.html

Mormon Fraud

PowerPoint presentation about the Mormon fraud epidemic

EvanLM wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 7:48 pm

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:33 pm So I was at lunch today, and discussion wended it’s way to the Boy Scouts.

A clear observation was made that the Boy Scout hierarchy is basically a pyramid scheme.

The rank and file donate their time, perform great service freely, and are a dedicated cadre of supporters.

Others, perform major fund raising efforts on an regular basis, for local participation.

Other strong arm tactics used to be employed annually in the form of the “Friends of Scouting”.
That money goes to regional and National PAID individuals.

Life gets pretty good the higher one rises in the ranks of Scout HQ Leaderships.

Major salaries, benefits and privleges are bequeathed upon the highest level of corporate officers.

So basically, the the whole organization is in the shape of a pyramid. Un-paid volunteers at the broad base. With steep walls going up to the regional and National leadership.

By the time lunch was over, we realized the Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is very similar to the same pyramid organization.

Lots and lots of members at the lowest level, funding their church attendance, and participation in activities.

The higher one goes up the leadership ladder, the nicer life becomes. Eventually at the top of HQ administration, regular “stipend” salaries, free college and university tuition, health care and a multitude of other perks and privileges are avail to the upper one tenth of one percent.

So a broad base who pays and pays, with the money rising up to the top where a hugely minuscule elite benefit.

With an accumulated largesse of $138 billion in the Babylonian stock market. How can this be the one true church organization of the Savior of those who believe on Him, and not an organization fostered by the god of this world?

Give your second coat away. Think not of tomorrow, let it take care of itself, look at the flowers in the meadow, the birds, do not they fulfill the measure of their creation?

Are we really to be so beholden to maintaining the status quo, and hope our whole working lives that our man made retirement accounts will still be there when we get old..??

How can we jettison Babylon and run to Zion when the many many small cords bind us to this worlds economy..?

we can't run to Zion with this level of thinking . . . this is still the Lord's church . . .many of us in the church give to bums on the street and donate money to others . . . that doensn't make us strung to anything . . . and hours of time have been spent on all kinds of volubnteer things . . .whether peronally motivated or part of a group . .

who cares what the person on the street does with the money . . . or what the "church" as you call it does with the money . . . or the boy scouts do with the money . . or any other group . . .

anyone who worries about how donated money or anyone else's money, or time, is spent is not ready for Zion . . . stop coveting other people's money . . including the church's money or the boy scout's money

Sounds like you're not ready for Zion based on your own definition.

The Church leaders need to acknowledge their offense. The roots can't pretend the branches don't matter and they can just do whatever and roots don't need to worry or vice versa. The leaders are not Islands. What they do and how they decide to act affects everything and if you can't see that surely you can see how it affects all the members and the whole Church. The leaders can't just do whatever without consequences or without it either hurting or hindering Zion.

So we can, should, and ought to care about how our leaders are behaving and what example they are setting especially for my children. Do I want them seeking after wealth and pyramid schemes like the example of our leaders in their deeds and life (not words) or do I want them seeking after Christ like things or the ways of Good and Holiness?

The Church to be Zion is gonna need ALL, top to bottom, to acknowledge their offense and repent. The tops of the branches have become too haughty and prideful and the roots can't sustain it. The top needs to be pruned and brought low and MADE EQUAL with the roots. The leaders need to be equal in their temporal things as the heads of Ephraim promised to do and this not grudgingly.

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The biggest problem with MLM programs is not that they offer commissions. It is illegal to get paid for recruiting people. Commissions are paid only on product sales. That is not the problem. The problem is a big one but it has nothing to do with the marketing plan. It has to do with the incredibly far out lies that people tell in order to get people to join. Then when people are not rich by Friday, they complain. MLM is not a get rich quick scheme. There are millions of retarded morons with no money attempting to teach someone how to get rich. That is the problem. You can't teach what you don't know. There are not many liars as big as the ones promoting MLM.

If people were truthful, no one would ever complain. Of course when you tell giant lies to your family and neighbors, they don't want to be around you as often. Liars destroy relationships.

All you have to do to stop the liars is just ask one simple question. "How much are you earning? Let me see last months accounting." Then the liar comes back to reality and has to admit that they haven't even got a check yet as they just started and that they lied about teaching you how to become a millionaire because they haven't the faintest idea. Or, they show you their genealogy on the computer and their commission payouts and tell you that they do know how to do it and they will teach you as long as you do what they say. Then you follow a leader in doing what he/she did and discover that it does work if you just quit worshiping satan with telling all of those lies.