LDS Freedom Forum

randyps wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 11:54 pm

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:33 pm
Life gets pretty good the higher one rises in the ranks of Scout HQ Leaderships.

Major salaries, benefits and privleges are bequeathed upon the highest level of corporate officers.

So basically, the the whole organization is in the shape of a pyramid. Un-paid volunteers at the broad base. With steep walls going up to the regional and National leadership.

I remember listening to a podcast where a young pop artist from a middle income neighborhood in Texas couldn't live in his own hometown anymore because of his fame. For safety and privacy reasons he had to buy a more expensive house in a higher income area, there is no option to move to another middle income neighborhood. People in higher positions of companies and organizations are no different, some need body guards, bigger safer cars even private helicopters and jets.

An LDS apostle may not be so famous but their level of importance is and I would expect them to need to spent more money for safety, privacy and convenience. Think of the apostles of old, Peter/James/John all people of importance and all taken out by a jealous hateful mob. In this forum alone there is evidence that the jealous hateful mob toward Gods apostles still exist.

Apostles are servants. How do servants become treated as masters or kings or celebrities? Why are they more important than the rest of the body? You wanna pull out your pituitary gland? Wanna cut out a chunk of your lung? Which part of yourself do you love above the other part?

...

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 16th, 2022, 10:06 am

randyps wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 11:54 pm In this forum alone there is evidence that the jealous hateful mob toward Gods apostles still exist.

Maybe... or maybe false beliefs, culture, doctrine, and tradition don't sit well with us.

The scribes and pharisees had the same problem with Jesus.

Being There wrote: ↑March 16th, 2022, 8:10 pm Mormonville - scam capital of the World
where people love money so much, and are so gullible - they'll believe and
DO ANYTHING TO GET IT !

and as they say "this is just the tip of the iceberg"

And when they get money they divorce their wives.
listen to Steve Wozniak talk about the fusion-io founders.
Video plays at 1:12:28

[youtube]https://youtu.be/CRi8r0XQFHU?t=4348[/youtube]

Being There wrote: ↑March 16th, 2022, 8:14 pm Utah's all-time biggest scams and frauds
By Better Business Bureau of Utah | Posted - May 30, 2018

"Online searches for fraud produce abundant references to cases with Utah connections.
In fact, there are many which refer to the Beehive State as the “fraud capital of the world."

https://www.ksl.com/article/46325540/ut ... and-frauds

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cult Education Institute

The Mormon Church
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS)

This page contains information The Cult Education Institute has
gathered about the Mormon Church.
https://culteducation.com/group/1057-th ... hurch.html

Something something fruits....

randyps wrote: ↑March 17th, 2022, 1:55 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 16th, 2022, 10:06 am

randyps wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 11:54 pm In this forum alone there is evidence that the jealous hateful mob toward Gods apostles still exist.

Maybe... or maybe false beliefs, culture, doctrine, and tradition don't sit well with us.

The scribes and pharisees had the same problem with Jesus.

?? Are church leaders on or off course in your opinion? I can't tell by your various responses.

randyps wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 11:54 pm
An LDS apostle may not be so famous but their level of importance is and I would expect them to need to spent more money for safety, privacy and convenience. Think of the apostles of old, Peter/James/John all people of importance and all taken out by a jealous hateful mob. In this forum alone there is evidence that the jealous hateful mob toward Gods apostles still exist.

Good point. It would be terrible if modern day apostles had similar experiences to the original 12.

Persecuted and imprisoned for a testimony of Christ? We don't want that to happen.

It's not like there's a pattern with Lehi, Nephi, Alma Sr, Alma Jr, Amulek, Nephi III, Mormon, Moroni, Joseph Smith, Martin Luther, William Tyndale, or the prophets in the bible of being persecuted harshly by those with government power (who else would have the power to put someone in prison?) for teaching the truth. I mean has there ever been a period of over 100 years in the scriptures where a prophet hasn't been imprisoned?

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you."

That verse is definitely talking about a couple dozen members of an obscure online forum upset with lies and hypocrisy from people pretending to represent Jesus Christ. Not the major corporations, media, and government that all work together to demonize people wanting liberty.

When someone puts their trust in a gated community, security guards, or anything else that money can buy, they are not trusting that God can or will protect them. What does that say about their confidence that they are actually representing him?

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ees-europe

Church giving money to the Beast, I mean the UN again.

The greatest pyramid scheme of all is eternal progression. Not all pyramid schemes are bad, it is called progression.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 17th, 2022, 5:30 am

randyps wrote: ↑March 17th, 2022, 1:55 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 16th, 2022, 10:06 am

randyps wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 11:54 pm In this forum alone there is evidence that the jealous hateful mob toward Gods apostles still exist.

Maybe... or maybe false beliefs, culture, doctrine, and tradition don't sit well with us.

The scribes and pharisees had the same problem with Jesus.

?? Are church leaders on or off course in your opinion? I can't tell by your various responses.

What does it mean to be on or off course? Jesus's 3yr ministry lead to his death, we would end up the same if we want to follow in his path perfectly. The problem I see with many who criticize the LDS apostles is that they expect the apostles to go down that path but they wont do it themselves. Any one of you all (not you personally RW) can sell your house and walk the streets 24/7 not thinking for the morrow preaching the gospel. Kudos to the various christian preachers that stand on the corner with signs yelling "repent, repent!" but they only do it for a couple hours on the weekend then return to their babylonian lifestyle.

randyps wrote: ↑March 17th, 2022, 10:55 am What does it mean to be on or off course? Jesus's 3yr ministry lead to his death, we would end up the same if we want to follow in his path perfectly. The problem I see with many who criticize the LDS apostles is that they expect the apostles to go down that path but they wont do it themselves. Any one of you all (not you personally RW) can sell your house and walk the streets 24/7 not thinking for the morrow preaching the gospel. Kudos to the various christian preachers that stand on the corner with signs yelling "repent, repent!" but they only do it for a couple hours on the weekend then return to their babylonian lifestyle.

If the "apostles" simply taught Christ's doctrine, I'd be cool with that. I feel they are not doing this in many regards, they are not raising a voice of warning as the scriptures have prophesied. And yes, I know many who are raising a warning voice, far more than church leadership. And yes, we should acknowledge that persecution will come. I've had a good handful of family and friends stop talking to me or won't ever discuss theology. I'm a "heretic" or "apostate" in their eyes.

So yeah, I feel the church has been led astray for a very long time, even since the death of Joseph. They present a false gospel, and false salvation. Sure, they say some nice things now and then, but when it comes down to core doctrinal beliefs, they miss the mark greatly.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 16th, 2022, 8:55 am Ever done a scripture study on the Kingdom of God? And I don’t mean what the LDS church says about it (the kingdom is the church, Jesus needs money and property for the second coming, etc). I mean what Jesus said about the Kingdom of God in the Bible. Long story short, Jesus’ version of the Kingdom of God seems radically different in the NT than what we seem to preach nowadays. Which one is right?

If you want some bonus points, read up on Jesus’ words regarding money, the rich, and the priests in the temple who demand widows’ mites while they sit in luxury and abundance.

It takes some cognitive dissonance not to see the difference.

This is correct. It should be obvious to most people and isn't, and bears restating. It's even obvious to people reading tendentious translations of the Bible.

The "first will be last and the last, first". That's my take away here. Some of the people at the top of the pyramid will be behind some of the bottom rung.

Niemand wrote: ↑March 17th, 2022, 1:48 pm

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 16th, 2022, 8:55 am Ever done a scripture study on the Kingdom of God? And I don’t mean what the LDS church says about it (the kingdom is the church, Jesus needs money and property for the second coming, etc). I mean what Jesus said about the Kingdom of God in the Bible. Long story short, Jesus’ version of the Kingdom of God seems radically different in the NT than what we seem to preach nowadays. Which one is right?

If you want some bonus points, read up on Jesus’ words regarding money, the rich, and the priests in the temple who demand widows’ mites while they sit in luxury and abundance.

It takes some cognitive dissonance not to see the difference.

This is correct. It should be obvious to most people and isn't, and bears restating. It's even obvious to people reading tendentious translations of the Bible.

The "first will be last and the last, first". That's my take away here. Some of the people at the top of the pyramid will be behind some of the bottom rung.

hey! Collecting tendentious translations is my new pastime! I've even added a few Bibles since last we jousted.

But yeah, funny how we miss some of Jesus' main teachings because we're so focused on other verses/stories/theories...

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 17th, 2022, 2:05 pm

Niemand wrote: ↑March 17th, 2022, 1:48 pm

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 16th, 2022, 8:55 am Ever done a scripture study on the Kingdom of God? And I don’t mean what the LDS church says about it (the kingdom is the church, Jesus needs money and property for the second coming, etc). I mean what Jesus said about the Kingdom of God in the Bible. Long story short, Jesus’ version of the Kingdom of God seems radically different in the NT than what we seem to preach nowadays. Which one is right?

If you want some bonus points, read up on Jesus’ words regarding money, the rich, and the priests in the temple who demand widows’ mites while they sit in luxury and abundance.

It takes some cognitive dissonance not to see the difference.

This is correct. It should be obvious to most people and isn't, and bears restating. It's even obvious to people reading tendentious translations of the Bible.

The "first will be last and the last, first". That's my take away here. Some of the people at the top of the pyramid will be behind some of the bottom rung.

hey! Collecting tendentious translations is my new pastime! I've even added a few Bibles since last we jousted.

But yeah, funny how we miss some of Jesus' main teachings because we're so focused on other verses/stories/theories...

Yes, we (collectively, not the people here) are very selective about which verses we choose. I think because some of them don't fit with LDS attitudes towards wealth and self-image.

I've a sneaking suspicion some Protestant televangelists in the States are so fixated on creationism because it allows them to dodge the social gospel.

Here is a Utah Ponzi scheme. Not a pyramid. But Utah does seem to be the place.