So what do you predict LDS Corp will do next?

[Luke]

There is no such thing as priesthood office. There is priesthood and there is callings.

There are the offices of the priesthood (like High Priest, Elder, Priest, etc.) which carry a degree of priesthood authority with them, but then there are also the offices of the church (like High Councilman, Church President, Member of the Q12), which are merely administrative roles, which grow out of the offices of the priesthood.

[Robin Hood]

There is no such thing as priesthood office. There is priesthood and there is callings.

Of course there are offices in the priesthood.
Read your D&C.

[inho]

There is no such thing as priesthood office. There is priesthood and there is callings.

This could be a topic of a new thread. I would like to see that discussion.

We say that there are priesthood offices and consider them separate from other church callings (e.g., ordain vs. set apart). But what really is the difference? Well, office is a permanent, but callings come and go. For example, I am no longer Ward Clerk, but I will always be an Elder.

But really, what is the difference? What does it mean to be a deacon? There are no priesthood ordinances that a deacon can perform (passing the sacrament is not an ordinances, blessing is the ordinances, priesthood authority is not invoked in passing). D&C tells us what are the duties of a deacon, but why is it an office? Couldn't there be a calling with similar duties?

[Hogmeister]

Are you being sarcastic?

I'm serious. I believe it and have heard GA level people say the same thing. I am a guy and hope to get to be as Christlike as my wife.

It's false doctrine plain and simple, which is why they will never back up this statement with scripture. Women are not at a higher level than men, and vice versa. No amount of simping will change this.

Perhaps I should clarify this. I think that, generally, a good woman starts out better than a good man. I think that a bad woman starts out worse than a bad man. I haven't known a lot of bad women so my observation on this could be flawed. I just know that when it comes to Christlike qualities (unconditional love, kindness, service etc.) women seem to start out on a higher plane than guys. Guys can learn to get up to that level but it is not something that comes very easy.

To be righteous is to be merciful and just. These are the main characteristics that defines the path to godhood. God's right side represents God's mercy His left side represents God's justice.

I believe women has a predisposition for mercy while men have a predisposition for justice. Both are necessary for righteousness. This could be one aspect of man is not without woman in God and vice versa.

[anonymous91]

That would take bravery rarely seen by organizations. If they did that, I’d give credit where credit is due

Unfortunately, I don’t see it happening

I don't see anyone reversing or even contemplating undoing the Family Proclamation any time soon.

The Church already reversed its stance just recently. Of course, this is just a "policy" so it doesn't really count, right?

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/04/70998837 ... lgbt-membe

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced on Thursday that it was reversing its controversial 2015 policy that classified people in same-sex marriages as "apostates." "

So, what do you call two people that are living in sin, refuse to acknowledge their actions as sins, thus not repenting of their sins?

I would call this apostasy, but apparently, the current prophet thinks otherwise. If this isn't a perfect example of apostasy, I don't know what is. Since when did God's prophets ever become so wishy-washy?

[Being There]

I don't know, nor do I really care what the LDS Corp is planning.
But I know what the Lord has in plan for them.

Invasion comes on the church because of their apostasy -The Day of the King of Assyria

The Drunkards of Ephraim will be HURLED TO THE GROUND by His hand.

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.

1 Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59), each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse. Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment. Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths, the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today.
Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

2 My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2). A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last. Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).

3 The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot.
4 And the fading wreaths, the crowns of glory on the heads of the opulent,
shall be like the first-ripe fruit before summer harvest:
he who sees it devours it the moment he has hold of it.

Ideas that link the king of Assyria/Babylon to these verses are Jehovah’s people being “trodden underfoot” (Isaiah 10:5-6; 63:6) and the timing of Assyria’s assault as early summer (Isaiah 16:9-10; 18:5). Ephraim’s former “crowns of glory”—now mere “fading wreaths” on the heads of a later generation—aren’t enough to prevent Assyria’s desolating invasion. The enemy alliance promptly “devours” or “swallows up” (yibla‘enna) Ephraim’s produce. Jehovah’s Day of Judgment humbles Ephraim’s “opulent” (ge’e semanim)—literally “fat proud ones”—both political and ecclesiastical (v 7; Isaiah 17:3-6).

[Robin Hood]

I don't know, nor do I really care what the LDS Corp is planning.
But I know what the Lord has in plan for them.

Invasion comes on the church because of their apostasy -The Day of the King of Assyria

The Drunkards of Ephraim will be HURLED TO THE GROUND by His hand.

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.

1 Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59), each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse. Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment. Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths, the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today.
Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

2 My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2). A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last. Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).

3 The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot.
4 And the fading wreaths, the crowns of glory on the heads of the opulent,
shall be like the first-ripe fruit before summer harvest:
he who sees it devours it the moment he has hold of it.

Ideas that link the king of Assyria/Babylon to these verses are Jehovah’s people being “trodden underfoot” (Isaiah 10:5-6; 63:6) and the timing of Assyria’s assault as early summer (Isaiah 16:9-10; 18:5). Ephraim’s former “crowns of glory”—now mere “fading wreaths” on the heads of a later generation—aren’t enough to prevent Assyria’s desolating invasion. The enemy alliance promptly “devours” or “swallows up” (yibla‘enna) Ephraim’s produce. Jehovah’s Day of Judgment humbles Ephraim’s “opulent” (ge’e semanim)—literally “fat proud ones”—both political and ecclesiastical (v 7; Isaiah 17:3-6).

Thanks for this concise post.
Please could you provide the references. Thank you.

[Being There]

I don't know, nor do I really care what the LDS Corp is planning.
But I know what the Lord has in plan for them.

Invasion comes on the church because of their apostasy -The Day of the King of Assyria

The Drunkards of Ephraim will be HURLED TO THE GROUND by His hand.

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.

1 Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59), each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse. Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment. Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths, the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today.
Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

2 My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2). A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last. Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).

3 The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot.
4 And the fading wreaths, the crowns of glory on the heads of the opulent,
shall be like the first-ripe fruit before summer harvest:
he who sees it devours it the moment he has hold of it.

Ideas that link the king of Assyria/Babylon to these verses are Jehovah’s people being “trodden underfoot” (Isaiah 10:5-6; 63:6) and the timing of Assyria’s assault as early summer (Isaiah 16:9-10; 18:5). Ephraim’s former “crowns of glory”—now mere “fading wreaths” on the heads of a later generation—aren’t enough to prevent Assyria’s desolating invasion. The enemy alliance promptly “devours” or “swallows up” (yibla‘enna) Ephraim’s produce. Jehovah’s Day of Judgment humbles Ephraim’s “opulent” (ge’e semanim)—literally “fat proud ones”—both political and ecclesiastical (v 7; Isaiah 17:3-6).

(Egypt is the U.S.)
Isaiah 19
When Jehovah enters Egypt riding on swift clouds, the idols of Egypt will rock at his presence
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65683&p=1246801#p1246801


Isaiah 20

3 Then Jehovah said, Just as my servant Isaiah has gone naked and barefoot for three years as a sign and portent against Egypt and Cush,
4 so shall the king of Assyria lead away the captives of Egypt and the exiles of Cush, both young and old, naked and barefoot, with buttocks uncovered—to Egypt’s shame.

* a family member had a dream about this.
They couldn't understand why in their dream they saw members naked.

5 Men shall be appalled and perplexed at Cush, their hope, and at Egypt, their boast.
6 In that day shall the inhabitants of this isle say, See what has become of those we looked up to, on whom we relied for help and deliverance from the king of Assyria!
How shall we ourselves escape?


Isaiah 7
17 Jehovah will bring upon you and your people and your father’s house a day unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—the day of the king of Assyria.

A time of national tragedy is to ensue—as when “Ephraim broke away from Judah” and Jehovah’s people became a house divided against itself (1 Kings 11:29-32; 12:19-21). Jehovah appoints the king of Assyria as his instrument to afflict his people who reject him (Isaiah 10:5-6). As his people’s king and protector—as their proxy representative—Ahaz, by his disloyalty to Israel’s God, directly impacts what happens to his people. It is just a matter of time, too, before Isaiah’s pronouncement is fulfilled and a righteous “son” or vassal (ben)—Immanuel—replaces the unrighteous Ahaz (vv 14-16).

18 In that day Jehovah will signal for the flies from the far rivers of Egypt and for the bees in the land of Assyria.
19 And they will come and settle with one accord in the river beds of the prairie and in rocky ravines, and by all ditches and water holes.
20 In that day my Lord will use a razor hired at the River—the king of Assyria—to shave your head and the hair of your legs, and to cut off even your beard.

Foreign armies, represented by swarms of flies and bees, invade the land in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment, implementing his covenant curse. The king of Assyria—Jehovah’s razor—takes captive the wicked of Jehovah’s people, shaving their hair in the manner of slaves. Historically referring to the Euphrates, the “River” (nahar) here characterizes the archtyrant as Lord Nahar—Lord River—a god of chaos in the Baal myth. The words “head” and “beard” allude to the people’s leaders (Isaiah 3:14; 9:15) whom the Assyrians exile first, as they did anciently, leaving the people leaderless.

[inho]

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced on Thursday that it was reversing its controversial 2015 policy that classified people in same-sex marriages as "apostates." "

So, what do you call two people that are living in sin, refuse to acknowledge their actions as sins, thus not repenting of their sins?

I would call this apostasy, but apparently, the current prophet thinks otherwise. If this isn't a perfect example of apostasy, I don't know what is. Since when did God's prophets ever become so wishy-washy?

Well, the Handbook has always used the word 'apostate' in a very narrow sense. What would you call a fraudster who lies to get gain, refuse to acknowledge his actions as sin, thus not repenting? God cannot lie; to not to lie is an external law. So such a person is a perfect example of apostasy.

Also, rolling back the November 2015 policy did not affect the standing of homosexuals in the church, but it had a great impact on their children. That I applaud; children shouldn't be punished because of the sins of their parents.

Also, if we look at the current definition in the still relatively new General Handbook, one could argue that both homosexuals and fraudsters are apostates. The underlined part is a new addition (compared to the old Handbook):

As used here, apostasy refers to a member engaging in any of the following:

• Repeatedly acting in clear and deliberate public opposition to the Church, its doctrine, its policies, or its leaders
• ...

Note that the Handbook clarifies that this definition is "as used here", i.e., not the only possible definition, but a technical definition in a bureaucratic handbook.

[Being There]

I don't know, nor do I really care what the LDS Corp is planning.
But I know what the Lord has in plan for them.

Invasion comes on the church because of their apostasy -The Day of the King of Assyria

The Drunkards of Ephraim will be HURLED TO THE GROUND by His hand.

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.

1 Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59), each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse. Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment. Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths, the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today.
Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

2 My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2). A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last. Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).

3 The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot.
4 And the fading wreaths, the crowns of glory on the heads of the opulent,
shall be like the first-ripe fruit before summer harvest:
he who sees it devours it the moment he has hold of it.

Ideas that link the king of Assyria/Babylon to these verses are Jehovah’s people being “trodden underfoot” (Isaiah 10:5-6; 63:6) and the timing of Assyria’s assault as early summer (Isaiah 16:9-10; 18:5). Ephraim’s former “crowns of glory”—now mere “fading wreaths” on the heads of a later generation—aren’t enough to prevent Assyria’s desolating invasion. The enemy alliance promptly “devours” or “swallows up” (yibla‘enna) Ephraim’s produce. Jehovah’s Day of Judgment humbles Ephraim’s “opulent” (ge’e semanim)—literally “fat proud ones”—both political and ecclesiastical (v 7; Isaiah 17:3-6).

Thanks for this concise post.
Please could you provide the references. Thank you.

the references of course are the scriptures I posted from Isaiah
and are taken from this website. https://www.isaiahexplained.com/commentary/28

[iWriteStuff]

Love the convo, but maybe new thread for the drunkards of Ephraim and their Egyptian hegemony?

[spiritMan]

Same sex non sexual behavior is already decriminalized.

We have openly homosexual missionaries who come out and post pride messages on their missionary pages. This is accepted.

Anyone who thinks we aren't already a homosexual affirming Church is living in the past.

The ONLY thing unacceptable right now is homosexual sexual actions.

[Lexew1899]

I've lost faith that they will build up the Kingdom of God. I don't really care what they do anymore.

[Mamabear]

Same sex non sexual behavior is already decriminalized.

We have openly homosexual missionaries who come out and post pride messages on their missionary pages. This is accepted.

Anyone who thinks we aren't already a homosexual affirming Church is living in the past.

The ONLY thing unacceptable right now is homosexual sexual actions.

Agreed. There is a gay man who wrote a book on why he joined the church. He is booked with youth firesides in Utah… he’s very popular.
https://m.youtube.com/c/DennisSchleicher1/videos
I haven’t really watched any so I’m not sure what is being taught.

[Robin Hood]

I don't know, nor do I really care what the LDS Corp is planning.
But I know what the Lord has in plan for them.

Invasion comes on the church because of their apostasy -The Day of the King of Assyria

The Drunkards of Ephraim will be HURLED TO THE GROUND by His hand.

Isaiah 28
Ephraim and its prophets reap disaster for being delusional and for rejecting divine revelation.

1 Woe to the garlands of glory of the drunkards of Ephraim!
Their crowning splendor has become as fading wreaths
on the heads of the opulent overcome with wine.

Chapters 28-31, which form a didactic unit comprising Part VI of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 28-31; 55-59), each commence with a “woe” or covenant curse. Ephraim’s chief sins of pride and drunkenness catch up with Israel’s birthright tribe in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment. Instead of acknowledging current inconvenient truths, the people of Ephraim look back on past glories earned in more righteous times as if they still apply today.
Ephraim’s self-deception, stemming from intoxication with “wine” at the highest levels, compounds the hard times that lie ahead (v 7; Isaiah 56:10-12).

2 My Lord has in store one mighty and strong: as a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down,or like an inundating deluge of mighty waters, he will hurl them to the ground by his hand.

The imagery of “a ravaging hailstorm sweeping down” and of “an inundating deluge of mighty waters” identifies the king of Assyria/Babylon and his alliance of aggressor nations (Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 18:2). A second “one mighty and strong” in the Book of Isaiah is Jehovah’s servant, who makes an end of him at the last. Although Jehovah provides a refuge for a repentant remnant of his people against the storms of their enemies (Isaiah 4:6; 25:4-5; 57:13), he empowers the archtyrant—Jehovah’s (left) hand—over “the drunkards of Ephraim” to cast their illustriousness to the ground (cf. vv 1, 3).

3 The proud garlands of the drunkards of Ephraim shall be trodden underfoot.
4 And the fading wreaths, the crowns of glory on the heads of the opulent,
shall be like the first-ripe fruit before summer harvest:
he who sees it devours it the moment he has hold of it.

Ideas that link the king of Assyria/Babylon to these verses are Jehovah’s people being “trodden underfoot” (Isaiah 10:5-6; 63:6) and the timing of Assyria’s assault as early summer (Isaiah 16:9-10; 18:5). Ephraim’s former “crowns of glory”—now mere “fading wreaths” on the heads of a later generation—aren’t enough to prevent Assyria’s desolating invasion. The enemy alliance promptly “devours” or “swallows up” (yibla‘enna) Ephraim’s produce. Jehovah’s Day of Judgment humbles Ephraim’s “opulent” (ge’e semanim)—literally “fat proud ones”—both political and ecclesiastical (v 7; Isaiah 17:3-6).

(Egypt is the U.S.)
Isaiah 19
When Jehovah enters Egypt riding on swift clouds, the idols of Egypt will rock at his presence
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65683&p=1246801#p1246801


Isaiah 20

3 Then Jehovah said, Just as my servant Isaiah has gone naked and barefoot for three years as a sign and portent against Egypt and Cush,
4 so shall the king of Assyria lead away the captives of Egypt and the exiles of Cush, both young and old, naked and barefoot, with buttocks uncovered—to Egypt’s shame.

* a family member had a dream about this.
They couldn't understand why in their dream they saw members naked.

5 Men shall be appalled and perplexed at Cush, their hope, and at Egypt, their boast.
6 In that day shall the inhabitants of this isle say, See what has become of those we looked up to, on whom we relied for help and deliverance from the king of Assyria!
How shall we ourselves escape?


Isaiah 7
17 Jehovah will bring upon you and your people and your father’s house a day unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—the day of the king of Assyria.

A time of national tragedy is to ensue—as when “Ephraim broke away from Judah” and Jehovah’s people became a house divided against itself (1 Kings 11:29-32; 12:19-21). Jehovah appoints the king of Assyria as his instrument to afflict his people who reject him (Isaiah 10:5-6). As his people’s king and protector—as their proxy representative—Ahaz, by his disloyalty to Israel’s God, directly impacts what happens to his people. It is just a matter of time, too, before Isaiah’s pronouncement is fulfilled and a righteous “son” or vassal (ben)—Immanuel—replaces the unrighteous Ahaz (vv 14-16).

18 In that day Jehovah will signal for the flies from the far rivers of Egypt and for the bees in the land of Assyria.
19 And they will come and settle with one accord in the river beds of the prairie and in rocky ravines, and by all ditches and water holes.
20 In that day my Lord will use a razor hired at the River—the king of Assyria—to shave your head and the hair of your legs, and to cut off even your beard.

Foreign armies, represented by swarms of flies and bees, invade the land in Jehovah’s Day of Judgment, implementing his covenant curse. The king of Assyria—Jehovah’s razor—takes captive the wicked of Jehovah’s people, shaving their hair in the manner of slaves. Historically referring to the Euphrates, the “River” (nahar) here characterizes the archtyrant as Lord Nahar—Lord River—a god of chaos in the Baal myth. The words “head” and “beard” allude to the people’s leaders (Isaiah 3:14; 9:15) whom the Assyrians exile first, as they did anciently, leaving the people leaderless.

The reference in Isaiah 20:5 to the dismay of the isle at the demise of Egypt, and their lament that they relied on them for protection from Assyria is, I believe, a reference to Great Britain.

[BroJones]

Same sex non sexual behavior is already decriminalized.

We have openly homosexual missionaries who come out and post pride messages on their missionary pages. This is accepted.

Anyone who thinks we aren't already a homosexual affirming Church is living in the past.

The ONLY thing unacceptable right now is homosexual sexual actions.

Agreed. There is a gay man who wrote a book on why he joined the church. He is booked with youth firesides in Utah… he’s very popular.
https://m.youtube.com/c/DennisSchleicher1/videos
I haven’t really watched any so I’m not sure what is being taught.

Has this LGBTQ guy engaged in homosexual sexual actions beyond kissing etc.? (I wonder where the line is drawn.)

[Lizzy60]

Same sex non sexual behavior is already decriminalized.

We have openly homosexual missionaries who come out and post pride messages on their missionary pages. This is accepted.

Anyone who thinks we aren't already a homosexual affirming Church is living in the past.

The ONLY thing unacceptable right now is homosexual sexual actions.

Agreed. There is a gay man who wrote a book on why he joined the church. He is booked with youth firesides in Utah… he’s very popular.
https://m.youtube.com/c/DennisSchleicher1/videos
I haven’t really watched any so I’m not sure what is being taught.

I don’t know what he is teaching at his firesides, but on his Facebook page he said that he has received personal revelation that he and his husband (now deceased) will be a married couple in heaven. He said God absolutely approves of their “union”. Conveniently, he left this out of his article in the Ensign.

[Mamabear]

Same sex non sexual behavior is already decriminalized.

We have openly homosexual missionaries who come out and post pride messages on their missionary pages. This is accepted.

Anyone who thinks we aren't already a homosexual affirming Church is living in the past.

The ONLY thing unacceptable right now is homosexual sexual actions.

Agreed. There is a gay man who wrote a book on why he joined the church. He is booked with youth firesides in Utah… he’s very popular.
https://m.youtube.com/c/DennisSchleicher1/videos
I haven’t really watched any so I’m not sure what is being taught.

Has this LGBTQ guy engaged in homosexual sexual actions beyond kissing etc.? (I wonder where the line is drawn.)

I have gay relatives and I love them. Couldn’t care less about what they do in their personal lives.
However, this whole set up is strange in the church. Several years ago Christofferson gave a talk I think about his gay brother, who “doesn’t act on it”…..this was the gateway to what is happening now. Whether people act on it is their own business I guess. But the likelihood of an openly gay person in a relationship not acting on it is 0%. The church cannot enforce sexual rules because people lie and do what they do.

The bigger problem is youth learning that all of this ok. They are pandering to the youth because they are losing them in large numbers and they don’t know what to do, so they are grasping at straws. Accepting missionaries as gay, holding these firesides, playing identity politics, teaching this at byu, etc. It is a dangerous movement that will only get worse.

[iWriteStuff]

. Several years ago Christofferson gave a talk I think about his gay brother, who “doesn’t act on it”…..this was the gateway to what is happening now.

Update by Br. Christofferson as of December 2021:

christoffersondating.jpg (175.9 KiB) Viewed 593 times

[spiritMan]

Same sex non sexual behavior is already decriminalized.

We have openly homosexual missionaries who come out and post pride messages on their missionary pages. This is accepted.

Anyone who thinks we aren't already a homosexual affirming Church is living in the past.

The ONLY thing unacceptable right now is homosexual sexual actions.

Agreed. There is a gay man who wrote a book on why he joined the church. He is booked with youth firesides in Utah… he’s very popular.
https://m.youtube.com/c/DennisSchleicher1/videos
I haven’t really watched any so I’m not sure what is being taught.

Has this LGBTQ guy engaged in homosexual sexual actions beyond kissing etc.? (I wonder where the line is drawn.)

I have gay relatives and I love them. Couldn’t care less about what they do in their personal lives.
However, this whole set up is strange in the church. Several years ago Christofferson gave a talk I think about his gay brother, who “doesn’t act on it”…..this was the gateway to what is happening now. Whether people act on it is their own business I guess. But the likelihood of an openly gay person in a relationship not acting on it is 0%. The church cannot enforce sexual rules because people lie and do what they do.

The bigger problem is youth learning that all of this ok. They are pandering to the youth because they are losing them in large numbers and they don’t know what to do, so they are grasping at straws. Accepting missionaries as gay, holding these firesides, playing identity politics, teaching this at byu, etc. It is a dangerous movement that will only get worse.

The larger evangelical and Christianity as a whole has been dissenting these issues for a long time-longer than us.
It's called Side A vs. Side B Christianity vs. Traditional Christianity.

Side A: Take heterosexual rules apply them to homosexuality and it's all cool.
Side B: No homosexual sex but it's okay to act and "be" "gay", one can have homosexual "spiritual friendships" as long as there is no sexual activity.
Traditional Christianity (TC): No one IS homosexual, it is an ungodly desire that must be subdued, controlled, and repented of.

We use to be TC, now we are Side B and we will go to Side A.
Once a religion goes to Side B it has to go to Side A.

[Robin Hood]

Agreed. There is a gay man who wrote a book on why he joined the church. He is booked with youth firesides in Utah… he’s very popular.
https://m.youtube.com/c/DennisSchleicher1/videos
I haven’t really watched any so I’m not sure what is being taught.

Has this LGBTQ guy engaged in homosexual sexual actions beyond kissing etc.? (I wonder where the line is drawn.)

I have gay relatives and I love them. Couldn’t care less about what they do in their personal lives.
However, this whole set up is strange in the church. Several years ago Christofferson gave a talk I think about his gay brother, who “doesn’t act on it”…..this was the gateway to what is happening now. Whether people act on it is their own business I guess. But the likelihood of an openly gay person in a relationship not acting on it is 0%. The church cannot enforce sexual rules because people lie and do what they do.

The bigger problem is youth learning that all of this ok. They are pandering to the youth because they are losing them in large numbers and they don’t know what to do, so they are grasping at straws. Accepting missionaries as gay, holding these firesides, playing identity politics, teaching this at byu, etc. It is a dangerous movement that will only get worse.

The larger evangelical and Christianity as a whole has been dissenting these issues for a long time-longer than us.
It's called Side A vs. Side B Christianity vs. Traditional Christianity.

Side A: Take heterosexual rules apply them to homosexuality and it's all cool.
Side B: No homosexual sex but it's okay to act and "be" "gay", one can have homosexual "spiritual friendships" as long as there is no sexual activity.
Traditional Christianity (TC): No one IS homosexual, it is an ungodly desire that must be subdued, controlled, and repented of.

We use to be TC, now we are Side B and we will go to Side A.
Once a religion goes to Side B it has to go to Side A.

A very good synopsis of the situation.
I'm TC. It was a TC church when I joined it. I'm now in a B church.
I didn't move.

[Mamabear]

Agreed. There is a gay man who wrote a book on why he joined the church. He is booked with youth firesides in Utah… he’s very popular.
https://m.youtube.com/c/DennisSchleicher1/videos
I haven’t really watched any so I’m not sure what is being taught.

Has this LGBTQ guy engaged in homosexual sexual actions beyond kissing etc.? (I wonder where the line is drawn.)

I have gay relatives and I love them. Couldn’t care less about what they do in their personal lives.
However, this whole set up is strange in the church. Several years ago Christofferson gave a talk I think about his gay brother, who “doesn’t act on it”…..this was the gateway to what is happening now. Whether people act on it is their own business I guess. But the likelihood of an openly gay person in a relationship not acting on it is 0%. The church cannot enforce sexual rules because people lie and do what they do.

The bigger problem is youth learning that all of this ok. They are pandering to the youth because they are losing them in large numbers and they don’t know what to do, so they are grasping at straws. Accepting missionaries as gay, holding these firesides, playing identity politics, teaching this at byu, etc. It is a dangerous movement that will only get worse.

The larger evangelical and Christianity as a whole has been dissenting these issues for a long time-longer than us.
It's called Side A vs. Side B Christianity vs. Traditional Christianity.

Side A: Take heterosexual rules apply them to homosexuality and it's all cool.
Side B: No homosexual sex but it's okay to act and "be" "gay", one can have homosexual "spiritual friendships" as long as there is no sexual activity.
Traditional Christianity (TC): No one IS homosexual, it is an ungodly desire that must be subdued, controlled, and repented of.

We use to be TC, now we are Side B and we will go to Side A.
Once a religion goes to Side B it has to go to Side A.

Yes. I would say the church is between A and B right now as they are looking the other way and pretending they don’t notice.
Women’s conference last year at byu included a woman who introduced herself as “queer.” And a many other things are happening.
And this very thing is prophesied in the book of Isaiah. The church and world will be judged for sodom and Gomorrah behavior and other things.
Notice there hasn’t been any talks or hints about any sexual or homosexual sin lately? Why is that? Did it get better or is it worse?
They are afraid to offend and that’s a sign of danger. It’s a huge wake up call.

[BuriedTartaria]

I've lost faith that they will build up the Kingdom of God. I don't really care what they do anymore.

I find it absolutely blasphemous that the LDS church considers itself to be the stone cut from a mountain without hands that will consume the world (the Kingdom of God). If Joseph honestly said that, then I think he's referring to the work of the Father being the stone cut from the mountain without hands, and at the time of Joseph, I agree that the work the Lord was doing through him was part of that. But I no longer consider the LDS church to be the kingdom of God on earth or being part of that stone cut without hands work

[Oldemandalton]

So, what do you call two people that are living in sin, refuse to acknowledge their actions as sins, thus not repenting of their sins?

The same as how I would refer to an unmarried couple living in sin and not repenting, sinners, not apostates.

[Oldemandalton]

Same sex non sexual behavior is already decriminalized.

We have openly homosexual missionaries who come out and post pride messages on their missionary pages. This is accepted.

Anyone who thinks we aren't already a homosexual affirming Church is living in the past.

The ONLY thing unacceptable right now is homosexual sexual actions.

So same sex attraction is a sin? How so? Having SSA and being celibate is not a sin.