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Attraction: When a man has attraction toward a woman is when they see them as a possible mate. Lust is not a necessity for there to be attraction. For example, I was attracted to my wife before marriage. The lust came after.
We already have our answer to that.iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 3:00 pm hey y'all I love a good gay sex debate as much as the next guy (blech) but could we stick to the topic?
I think it had something to do with what the LDS Corp is going to do, not what homosexuals will do.
"When a man has attraction toward a woman is when they see them as a possible mate"Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 2:58 pmAttraction: When a man has attraction toward a woman is when they see them as a possible mate. Lust is not a necessity for there to be attraction. For example, I was attracted to my wife before marriage. The lust came after.
So according to you, it is okay for a married man to see a married woman as a possible mate and there is nothing wrong with that?Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 2:58 pmAttraction: When a man has attraction toward a woman is when they see them as a possible mate. Lust is not a necessity for there to be attraction. For example, I was attracted to my wife before marriage. The lust came after.
Sorry the 'not' in "not consuming it or having lustful thoughts" should have carried through to the second phrase. To clarify. "So being addicted to porn and not consuming it or not having lustful thoughts are a sin now?"spiritMan wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 1:36 pm
So being addicted to porn and not consuming it or having lustful thoughts are a sin now? You are saying that no one can repent of a porn addiction, alcoholism, drug addiction etc.!
That is what Satan teaches!
"having lustful thoughts are a sin now?"
.....
"That is what Satan teaches!"
Matthew 5:27-30
"27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
Ummm. That's not a good look for you. You have just declared that what is written in God's Word, what comes from Christ's mouth is what Satan teaches.
Attraction: When an unmarried man has attraction toward an unmarried woman is when they see them as a possible mate. Lust is not a necessity for there to be attraction. For example, I was attracted to my wife before marriage. The lust came after.
I can look at a woman and think she is pretty. That is not lust. Lust is imagining sex with them, touching them or imagining them naked. That is a sin.spiritMan wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 3:04 pm "When a man has attraction toward a woman is when they see them as a possible mate"
Okay ergo:
"When a man has attraction toward a man is when they see them as a possible mate"
"When a married man has attraction towards a married woman is when they see them as a possible mate"
Both of those are lust, ungodly, sinful and must be repented of. This isn't hard.
The biblical definition of lust as used in the scripture is having desires for that which is not of god. You can have lust for objects, people, things, etc. The biblical definition of lust is not by it's use sexual.
I generally agree with you.Robin Hood wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 2:33 pmBut we're not designed to have sexual activity in plenty of ways. We're designed to have it in a specific way in order to procreate. The fact that man can and does pervert that, does not mean that a man having an appropriate sexual desire for a woman is wrong. Whereas a man having a sexual desire for another man can never be appropriate and is always, without exception, wrong.spiritMan wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 1:54 pmThe reason I make a distinction is because we say that homosexual desire is not "natural" . . .when in fact it is "natural".Robin Hood wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 1:45 pmWho said anything about ungodly sexual desire? I'm talking about the God given attraction we have to our spouse.spiritMan wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 1:39 pm
Christ calls us to a higher purpose than to the "natural" way or "natural" man.
The "natural" man has ungodly sexual desire. It doesn't matter if that sexual desire is for people, children, plants, animals, or whatever else. Sexual desire is "natural", but only sexual desire towards one's opposite sex spouse is godly.
Why did you immediately think it was something else?
It is ungodly but natural.
I'm trying to make it explicitly clear that there is a difference between godly ways and ungodly ways vs. what is "natural" and "the way we're designed".
To be a little more blunt. God could have designed our bodies in such a way that sodomidic acts are impossible; but he didn't. I think it's a very bad argument to use the term "the way we are designed". Because we are designed in such a way that we can have sexual activities in plenty of ways.
godly vs. ungodly is more clear.
I think you're conflating "natural" with "natural man" and that's not helpful. Even Paul refers to "natural" use in a sexual context.
Curious… do you think the following point I made earlier is worrisome at all?Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 3:07 pmSorry the 'not' in "not consuming it or having lustful thoughts" should have carried through to the second phrase. To clarify. "So being addicted to porn and not consuming it or not having lustful thoughts are a sin now?"spiritMan wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 1:36 pm
So being addicted to porn and not consuming it or having lustful thoughts are a sin now? You are saying that no one can repent of a porn addiction, alcoholism, drug addiction etc.!
That is what Satan teaches!
"having lustful thoughts are a sin now?"
.....
"That is what Satan teaches!"
Matthew 5:27-30
"27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
Ummm. That's not a good look for you. You have just declared that what is written in God's Word, what comes from Christ's mouth is what Satan teaches.
My bad.
Yes, obviously lust is a sin. But not being able to repent of the sin of porn and lust is what Satan teaches.
I hope this clarifies poor choice of wording.
We are getting somewhere here-I think.Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 3:15 pmI can look at a woman and think she is pretty. That is not lust. Lust is imagining sex with them, touching them or imagining them naked. That is a sin.spiritMan wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 3:04 pm "When a man has attraction toward a woman is when they see them as a possible mate"
Okay ergo:
"When a man has attraction toward a man is when they see them as a possible mate"
"When a married man has attraction towards a married woman is when they see them as a possible mate"
Both of those are lust, ungodly, sinful and must be repented of. This isn't hard.
The biblical definition of lust as used in the scripture is having desires for that which is not of god. You can have lust for objects, people, things, etc. The biblical definition of lust is not by it's use sexual.
Oh no you don't get to weezle out of this so easily. You claimed:Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 3:12 pmAttraction: When an unmarried man has attraction toward an unmarried woman is when they see them as a possible mate. Lust is not a necessity for there to be attraction. For example, I was attracted to my wife before marriage. The lust came after.
Lusting after another man's wife is a sin. Seeing another man's wife and thinking that she is pretty is not a sin.
I don't this person finds it worriesome at all.Mamabear wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 3:17 pmCurious… do you think the following point I made earlier is worrisome at all?Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 3:07 pmSorry the 'not' in "not consuming it or having lustful thoughts" should have carried through to the second phrase. To clarify. "So being addicted to porn and not consuming it or not having lustful thoughts are a sin now?"spiritMan wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 1:36 pm
So being addicted to porn and not consuming it or having lustful thoughts are a sin now? You are saying that no one can repent of a porn addiction, alcoholism, drug addiction etc.!
That is what Satan teaches!
"having lustful thoughts are a sin now?"
.....
"That is what Satan teaches!"
Matthew 5:27-30
"27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
Ummm. That's not a good look for you. You have just declared that what is written in God's Word, what comes from Christ's mouth is what Satan teaches.
My bad.
Yes, obviously lust is a sin. But not being able to repent of the sin of porn and lust is what Satan teaches.
I hope this clarifies poor choice of wording.
There is a gay man who wrote a book on why he joined the church. He is booked with youth firesides in Utah… he’s very popular.
https://m.youtube.com/c/DennisSchleicher1/videos
And then Lizzy60 wrote:
“I don’t know what he is teaching at his firesides, but on his Facebook page he said that he has received personal revelation that he and his husband (now deceased) will be a married couple in heaven. He said God absolutely approves of their “union”. Conveniently, he left this out of his article in the Ensign.”
Would you allow your children to attend a fireside with him as the speaker?
Yes, having lustful thoughts is a sin. No God teaches that it is a sin, not sure how you got confused thinking that Satan teaches it. It's right in the Bible in black and white.Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 1:00 pmSo being addicted to porn and not consuming it or having lustful thoughts are a sin now? You are saying that no one can repent of a porn addiction, alcoholism, drug addiction etc.!Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 12:55 pm This is like saying “I’m addicted to porn, but I don’t watch it.” Or “I am attracted to children, but I don’t act on it.”
Absolutely ridiculous IMO.
That is what Satan teaches!
Look at the rampant levels of testosterone being at low levels in so many men and the reliance on synthesized testosterone for treatmentpho·to·syn·the·sis wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 1:36 pmHomosexuality takes that which is fertile and makes it sterile. Our modern concepts have almost done the same. Hence the reason sodomy is raging.Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 1:03 pmLust is a sin, whether homo or hetero.
If a man is attracted to a woman, is that a sin?
Nail meet hammer.anonymous91 wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 3:49 pmYes, having lustful thoughts is a sin. No God teaches that it is a sin, not sure how you got confused thinking that Satan teaches it. It's right in the Bible in black and white.Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 1:00 pmSo being addicted to porn and not consuming it or having lustful thoughts are a sin now? You are saying that no one can repent of a porn addiction, alcoholism, drug addiction etc.!Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 12:55 pm This is like saying “I’m addicted to porn, but I don’t watch it.” Or “I am attracted to children, but I don’t act on it.”
Absolutely ridiculous IMO.
That is what Satan teaches!
" But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:28
FYI, pride is a sin too. I don't see people getting up and wanting praise from people for being adulterers, fornicators, porn addicts, etc. You know who I do see seeking for the world's praise, being prideful and boastful those who identify themselves with their favorite sin aka homosexuality/gay (SSA). There is a huge difference between someone who struggles with unwanted SSA feelings, humbly admits it, and does everything they can to overcome it, that is generally not what is happening. Typically, these people are pridefully identifying with their sin, embellishing in their sin, and justifying it.
The church keeps moving the goalposts, and eventually, there will be no boundaries. Right now the official church's position is that as long as you aren't in sexual relations you are good to go. Well, that is complete and utter nonsense. That's like telling a married man that as long as he isn't in sexual relations with other women, he is good to go, the sheer stupidity of this line of thinking is mind-blowing.
Where does one draw the line exactly? Right now you have a major schism of members supporting the "gay lifestyle" you can see exactly what they believe by going to such groups as Mormons Building Bridges, or similar online groups. So, now having lustful thoughts is ok according to the Church (Definitely not God though). What do you think thoughts lead to? They lead to taking action. So, now we have gay supporters that think it is fine that people in the church can: go on dates, hold hands, kiss, have intimate convos, etc. As long as they don't actually have sex. Seriously? Am I in the minority of individuals that see major red flags all over the place with this line of reasoning?
Imagine if you gave this advice to your teenage kids, what do you honestly think would happen? I'll tell you, they eventually will have sex, it's inevitable. So now you've got a whole group of people who justify getting "married" in SSA relationships (never mind they made a mockery of marriage). Additionally, they and their supporters are pushing hard for the Church to allow them to be sealed in the Temple now, it wasn't enough for them to make a public mockery of the sanctity of marriage they are bound and determined to undermine the very foundation of everything and anything that is sacred.
Their movement is growing by the day. The church is heavily involved in this. There are now articles in the Church's newspapers that support this lifestyle, there are books that the Church allows to be published supporting this, meetings happening across the US in people's wards and homes. There are firesides, meet-ups, support groups, online groups, and so on. There are Sunday School teachers teaching this nonsense to primary kids for heaven's sake. You have people self-identifying as gay at major Church events, yet I don't see anyone else identifying with their favorite sins, why is that?
What does the Church say in response to all of this? ***Crickets*** The only time you ever hear them even address the gay lifestyle they are falling over themselves to show as much support and encouragement as they can, to the point it is nauseating. It is never called out as a sin, as it rightfully ought to be. The church could shut this down in a minute if they really wanted to. Just pull up any talks the church has on men struggling with porn and masturbation, and you'll hear a whole other side.
Would you say that it is ok for a married man to daydream of having an affair with another woman? Yet somehow that is fine if the person is gay? Really?
Here is a section of scriptures that describe what is going on and why:
Romans 1:25-31
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
I think it is important to understand how wicked the general attitude is among people that are self-identifying as gay, along with all of their advocates. We should take not what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah, what happened to these two cities? They were destroyed by fire. What is prophesied to happen in the last days, the earth is to be destroyed by fire.
sorry friend, but lust is lust;Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 2:58 pmAttraction: When a man has attraction toward a woman is when they see them as a possible mate. Lust is not a necessity for there to be attraction. For example, I was attracted to my wife before marriage.
The lust came after.
I agree. Lust is a sin. I fixed my bad wordage.Being There wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 5:49 pm
sorry friend, but lust is lust;
whether it be with someone else, or with your wife, it's still just lust, and wrong;
no matter how much you try to justify it.
You're not serious but joking about a non trivial matter. No wonder you see anything wrong with LGBTQ.Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:01 pmI agree. Lust is a sin. I fixed my bad wordage.Being There wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 5:49 pm
sorry friend, but lust is lust;
whether it be with someone else, or with your wife, it's still just lust, and wrong;
no matter how much you try to justify it.
well that's good, but it's a little more than just fixing bad wordage.Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:01 pmI agree. Lust is a sin. I fixed my bad wordage.Being There wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 5:49 pm
sorry friend, but lust is lust;
whether it be with someone else, or with your wife, it's still just lust, and wrong;
no matter how much you try to justify it.
Exactly.Being There wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:10 pmwell that's good, but it's a little more than just fixing bad wordage.Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:01 pmI agree. Lust is a sin. I fixed my bad wordage.Being There wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 5:49 pm
sorry friend, but lust is lust;
whether it be with someone else, or with your wife, it's still just lust, and wrong;
no matter how much you try to justify it.
It's changing the way you've been seeing it, and fixing the way and how you see what's right and what's wrong.
No, that is not same sex attraction.spiritMan wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 3:24 pm
We are getting somewhere here-I think.
I can look at a painting and think it's pretty too.
I can also recognize that my daughters are pretty without lust too.
This is just called recognizing the beauty in the world.
So if I have it correct.
According to you, ANY man who says Client Eastwood, Brad Pitt, or (insert some other male actor) in his prime was/is a handsome man is same-sex attracted?
According to you, ANY woman who says Scarlett Johansson, Charlize Theron, or (insert some other male actor) in her prime was/is a pretty woman is same-sex attracted?
Is that what you are claiming?
Lust is not a desire or feeling for the love you have for your wife.Being There wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:10 pmwell that's good, but it's a little more than just fixing bad wordage.Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:01 pmI agree. Lust is a sin. I fixed my bad wordage.Being There wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 5:49 pm
sorry friend, but lust is lust;
whether it be with someone else, or with your wife, it's still just lust, and wrong;
no matter how much you try to justify it.
It's changing the way you've been seeing it, and fixing the way and how you see what's right and what's wrong.
So according to you a man can have sexual feelings for another woman not his spouse, i. e. have sexual desire and it's cool with God?Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 6:19 pmNo, that is not same sex attraction.spiritMan wrote: ↑March 15th, 2022, 3:24 pm
We are getting somewhere here-I think.
I can look at a painting and think it's pretty too.
I can also recognize that my daughters are pretty without lust too.
This is just called recognizing the beauty in the world.
So if I have it correct.
According to you, ANY man who says Client Eastwood, Brad Pitt, or (insert some other male actor) in his prime was/is a handsome man is same-sex attracted?
According to you, ANY woman who says Scarlett Johansson, Charlize Theron, or (insert some other male actor) in her prime was/is a pretty woman is same-sex attracted?
Is that what you are claiming?
Same sex attraction refers to sexual feelings, not necessarily lust, for someone of your own sex. It can also mean to be physically and emotionally close to others of you own sex as much or more so than the opposite sex.
The reverse is also true. Opposite sex attraction are sexual feelings, not necessarily lust, for someone of the opposite sex. It can also mean to be physically and emotionally close to others of the opposite sex.
Lust does not have to factor in unless you let it.
And again, yes lust is a sin.
What is lust?
Lust = lŭst, noun:
1. Intense sexual desire.
2. An overwhelming desire or craving.
3. Intense eagerness or enthusiasm.
Lust is not attraction.