Pres. McKay prophesies of cell phones in the City of Zion

[nocomment]

"Zion Shall Flourish," The Improvement Era, April 1935, p 229.
If we have in mind the physical Zion, then we must strive for more fertile acres; bring from the mountains gold and silver in abundance; found factories to furnish more employment; extend in length and width our concrete public highways; build banks to protect, or to dissipate, as has been the case recently, the wealth we accumulate; transform our vast coal fields into electricity that will furnish light, heat and power to every family; improve the means of communication until with radio in our pockets we may communicate with friends and loved ones from any point at any given moment. Is it these physical phases of Zion which we are to build? Certainly it is difficult to picture the City of Zion without at least some - if not all - such modern necessities and luxuries.

[jbalm]

I hope that means that someday my house won't be in a cell phone dead zone.

[pjbrownie]

It helps you understand that if the Mountain West maintains control of their economy despite the rest of America being gobbled up by the PTB, Utah may maintain control ot itself and finance itself and its energy needs with the resources we have right here.

[Nan]

When I found this quote I was very excited. We have everything we need to build the city of zion except the people being prepared. (myself included.)

[Zowieink]

As I have studied the concept of "the new Jeruselem" many of the modern day prophets have seen a city that is home to many millions of people. My mother-in-law (just turned 80) can't get past the idea that in New Jeruselem, we will be more of a "pioneer" existence. My studying however does agree with that. As with David O. McKay's cell phone, many other prophets have seen gleeming skyscaper buildings, intercommunications faster than television, (fiber optic?) and able to communicate with anyone anywhere in the world. Many schools, universities, great areas for shopping and entertainment.

Now if we look at the Church's population now, 13,500,000 and add say another 500,000 to an even 14 million (easier to do math with), and think about the gathering at New Jeruselem. Assuming that the 50% that aren't active now, die or ?, that leaves 7,000,000 plus the non-members gathered to the area. If you take half, 3,500,000 that's still a very sizeable city by anybody's standards.

I personally think that with the push of missionary work that the population of the Church is going to at least double in the 5 to 10 years (hoping that God's judgements don't change things). So, if we assume doubling 7,000,000 + 2,000,000 in non-members, that's a VERY large city, and probably can't be a spread out suburban type, but more of a vertical city with agriculture and manufacturing on the outskirts.

When you add the City of Enoch to the mix, wow! A megaplex. No wonder, when the Lord's light shines on the City that other countries will be afraid to come up against us. And, all this is to be built in a short amount of time. I'm finding more and more members my age, 57ish, that have their patriarchical blessings telling them that they will be working at the temple in New Jeruselem, or part of the government (my son's blessing). It will be an amazing feat. Since I'm an architect, I can't wait for this to happen, although we have to go through some really icky stuff first. Imagine designing buildings with the help and inspiration from angels! Think of the new technologies that may be given to us! What if we have building 200 or 300 stories tall? Brigham Young speaks of the city having the most beautiful buildings, the most costly clothing (and stories to sell it in), the best education, the most beautiful gardens, etc.

Sorry, getting carried away! But, seriously, if any of you hope for New Jeruselem to be an agricultural, farming community, I believe you will be disappointed. It will be a "world class" capitol worthy of being the government seat of the Savior. Gives me chills just thinking about it.

Any thoughts?

[will]

Yes, I agree, howver Babylon must fall and the Lord will Cleanse starting with his own Church we must not forget that.

[will]

It helps you understand that if the Mountain West maintains control of their economy despite the rest of America being gobbled up by the PTB, Utah may maintain control ot itself and finance itself and its energy needs with the resources we have right here.

No, If I am not mistaken Utah will have Blood flowing in the streets and Salt Lake will be destroyed.

[Zowieink]

Anyone got ideas on time frames for the "cleansing"? One CES area director once said that instead on things happening one after another, in a sequence, they would stack up and have several or many things going on at the same time.

[bobhenstra]

----AFTER, 3 1/2 years of hell! The Lord will have a tried and tested people going into the millenium.

Bob

[AussieOi]

I personally think that with the push of missionary work that the population of the Church is going to at least double in the 5 to 10 years (hoping that God's judgements don't change things).

it took 180 odd years to get here, can't see it moving along too much faster for mine

Imagine designing buildings with the help and inspiration from angels!

agree inspiration will work well, but we design them? hmm, i thought it comes down from heaven intact

Think of the new technologies that may be given to us!

yep, mind changing

What if we have building 200 or 300 stories tall?

why need so tall?

Brigham Young speaks of the city having the most beautiful buildings, the most costly clothing (and stores to sell it in)

more "stuff". worldly fashions perhaps? would like to know the context of that statement personally

It will be a "world class" capitol worthy of being the government seat of the Savior. Gives me chills just thinking about it.
Any thoughts?

i thought the saviour was a simple needs man. having said that the promises in revelation are there to see

[Zowieink]

Well, thinking that the City will last through the millenium, it will grow. But, if you think of the number of people that will probably be there if the government of the Savior issues forth to the world, it will necessarily be large. Now, I personally think public transportation will be more the norm, so you will have a tightly packed area where people work, live, play, and worship.

In regards to the fashion stuff....since satan is bound for the duration of the millenium, as least till the end, fashionistas won't be the same as the garbage we have today, with all of the evils.

The Savior may be simple, but we will want to give Him the best.

[Kurt]

I hope the city is more than just a agricutural pioneer style town with no modern day conviences of any kind!! That truly would be a great and terrible day.

But I figure very soon during the clalamitites, scourging, plagues & wars, the latter day saints people will have to do without nearly everything we take for granted in our modern day of luxury. I really am going to miss them if and when they go!! It would be nice if we could all gather by driving now in our big SUV's and get everything ready before it gets so bad that you have to walk etc... Handcarts and tent living here we come!!

[bobhenstra]

Kurt, people with every skill and skill level will be needed to build the city. You just need to study a bit more.

[LukeAir2008]

[LukeAir2008]

The LDS nominal membership roll seems impressive. The activity and retention levels paint a very different picture.

Brazil Official LDS Statistics:

LDS Members: 1019153
Missions: 26
Temples: 4
Stakes: 193
Districts: 54
Wards: 1329
Branches: 467
Total Congregations: 1796 Derived LDS Statistics
Approx. Active Members: 254788
Percentage of Members Attending Church Weekly: 25%
Average members per congregation: 567
Average active members per congregation: 141
LDS, as percent of population: 0.5535%
Active LDS, as percent of population: 0.1383%
LDS, as percentage of churchgoers: 0%
National population per LDS congregation: 102506

History and Overview of the Church in Brazil
For all of South America, with 2.25 million members, less than 1.8% of the total adult membership has been married in the temple.(Source: Encyclopedia of Mormonism, edited by Daniel H. Ludlow, 1992, 4:1532)
Missionary Service
While a growing number of native missionaries are serving from Brazil, Brazil's 19 full-time missions are still overwhelmingly staffed by North American missionaries. There is now a missionary training center in Sao Paulo, Brazil. However, training local missionaries and ensuring accurate scriptural teaching remains challenging in view of widespread illiteracy. One recent news article noted that 40% of LDS returned missionaries from Brazil cannot read or write.(Source: Deseret News, October 2000)

Chile Official LDS Statistics:

LDS Members: 548743
Missions: 9
Temples: 1
Stakes: 74
Districts: 25
Wards: 419
Branches: 195
Total Congregations: 614 Derived LDS Statistics
Approx. Active Members: 109748
Percentage of Members Attending Church Weekly: 20%
Average members per congregation: 893
Average active members per congregation: 178
LDS, as percent of population: 3.468%
Active LDS, as percent of population: 0.6935%
LDS, as percentage of churchgoers: 2.774%
National population per LDS congregation: 25770

History and Overview of the Church in Chile
For all of South America, with 2.25 million members, less than 1.8% of the total adult membership has been married in the temple.(Source: Encyclopedia of Mormonism, edited by Daniel H. Ludlow, 1992, 4:1532)

Convert Retention and Member Activity
Baptism rates in Chile are relatively high; however, inactivity rates are catastrophic, with as many as 30-40% of converts in some areas never returning to church after baptism and up to 80% of new members going inactive within two months of baptism. Retention rates are particularly low among adult males, leading to deficiencies of local leadership. For years, many missions in Chile practiced quick baptize approaches with brief 15-20 minute doorstep discussions and little practical commitment prior to baptism, which led to statistically-impressive baptismal rates but also fueled widespread inactivity and nominalism. In recent years, several mission presidents have taken steps towards increasing the quality of pre-baptismal teaching and ensuring a more meaningful level of pre-baptismal commitment. Nonetheless, serious problems with convert retention remain widespread.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Mexico :

Mexico Official LDS Statistics
LDS Members: 1043718
Missions: 20
Temples: 12
Stakes: 206
Districts: 41
Wards: 1408
Branches: 495
Total Congregations: 1903 Derived LDS Statistics
Approx. Active Members: 250492
Percentage of Members Attending Church Weekly: 24%
Average members per congregation: 548
Average active members per congregation: 131
LDS, as percent of population: 0.9944%
Active LDS, as percent of population: 0.2386%
LDS, as percentage of churchgoers: 0.518%
National population per LDS congregation: 55154

Mexican Convert Retention and Member Activity:
At year-end 1999, the LDS Church Almanac reports 846,931 LDS members living in Mexico. This represents the most LDS members living in any country outside of the United States. While this appears numerically impressive, a sobering reality check was provided by the 2000 Mexican Census, as reported in the Arizona Republic:
'The current Mexican Mormon Church was established in 1961 and claims just under 850,000 members, Pratt said. However, figures from the 2000 Mexican census, based on self-reported data, place active membership at 205,229. [24%]' (Source:Arizona Republic, July 10, 2001, http://www.azcentral.com/news/0710mormons10.html).

Indeed, while nominally identifying oneself as a Latter-day Saint does not necessarily guarantee church activity, it would be difficult to claim that those who do not even identify themselves as Latter-day Saints are active or contributing members. The LDS activity rate derived from a comparison of the 2000 Mexican Census to official membership data -- 24% -- is comparable to that cited in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism:

'Attendance at sacrament meeting varies substantially. Asia and Latin America have weekly attendance rates of about 25 percent...'(Source: Encyclopedia of Mormonism, edited by Daniel H. Ludlow, 1992, 4:1527.)

While there are some very dedicated LDS members in Mexico, these represent only a fraction of the total number of individuals 'on the rolls.' Much of this inactivity occurs soon after baptism, and many nominal members have never set foot in an LDS chapel more than once or twice. Adult male converts are especially prone to inactivity, creating serious challenges for local leadership. Lowell Bennion and Lawrence Young note: 'For the U.S. as a whole, only 59% of baptized males ever receive the Melchizedek Priesthood. In the South Pacific, the figure drops to 35%; in Great Britain, 29%. In Mexico (with almost 850,000 members) the figure is 19%.' (Source: Lowell C. Bennion and Lawrence Young, Dialogue, Spring 1996, p.19.)

The number of wards and branches in Mexico have not increased as rapidly as LDS membership, due in large part to rampant inactivity. While mission policies are highly heterogenous, much of the problem stems from quick-baptize missionary approaches, which race individuals who have demonstrated little commitment to baptism within 10-day or 14-day target periods. Most individuals have read very little in the Book of Mormon at the time of baptism and have been to church only once or twice. Post-baptismal fellowshipping is also inconsistent. In light of these factors, it can hardly be considered surprising that up to 80% of converts are lost within two months of baptism, and 30-40% of baptizees never return to church again after baptism. Groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh-day Adventists which focus on consistent fulfillment of basic pre-baptismal commitments like church attendance and scripture reading have experienced retention rates of 70-80% and above, in contrast to LDS retention rates below the one-quartile mark.

[Zowieink]

The statistics are interesting...what causes inactivity. Why is there such a push for missionary work when we can't even retain but 25% of those baptized. I guess our ward is weird. We have 89% attendence, with 98% to at least one sac. meeting, home teaching: 85%, visiting teaching 95%, temple recommend holders: 90%.

Now, I personally believe that as the persecutions really start up, inactive members will have to make a decision, and many will become active, or they will completely leave the Church. In regards to the population of New Jeruselem, if it is to be the mecca to all, members and non-members, its gonna be a really big place. If we count on 25% of todays members (3,375,000) as being alive and worthy to be there...how many non-members or potential members will we have in that city? Let's say half of 3.375 million that's 1.7 million more for a total of 5,000,000...a good sizeable city, and that's not counting the City of Enoch or the Lost tribes when they return.

My only point in bringing this up is to say that New Jeruselem will be a BIG city. Hopefully heaven doesn't believe in urban sprawl, so utilizing good planning principals that City would be mostly vertical for the offices and high density housing, surrounded by manufacturing and agriculture probably mixed together. I anticipate we will learn new building techniques and perhaps new types of materials to building this city. Look how fast Dubai went up, a little over 4 years ago it was a desert plain, now look at it (well, at least what they accomplished before the crash!!).

Ever hear of Hartman Rector? Used to be a general authority, but got into some trouble. On an airplane ride back to Phoenix, he indicated that the Church has purchased most of the land, utilities, communications (radio & TV) and is quietly putting together the plans for the temple and the infastructure of the City. It is done quietly with zero fanfare. I'm sure when all the dust/germs settle, the Church will be able to show ownership of all that land, legally (not that it will matter).

I just think its exciting, and very scary, to be entering these last days. I don't believe we've seen but the most itty-bitty start of things nasty. Just hope, I have the ? to keep my family together to see and live in this City. Perhaps to work in the temple or anywhere I am needed. My kids blessings say they will be there to see the Savior.

[LukeAir2008]

[Nan]

how did Hartman Rector get in trouble with the church?

[Zowieink]

LukeAir2008:

Not a fairy tale, fact! Call him up and ask. The reason I know (it is second hand) our stake patriarch sat next to him, coming back from the Winter Quarters temple dedication and related this in our Stake Conference a few years ago.

[Zowieink]

Hartman Rector was a well know general authority about 20 years ago. He got into trouble by embellishing some stories regarding his youth and young adulthood (he claimed he was in the minor leagues in baseball). It came to light, that yes he was part of the organization, but not the ball-playing kind. The First Presidency asked him to retire and become emeritus status, and then when all was quiet, he became the "errand boy" of the First Presidency for sensitive things.

I found this out when I had the opportunity of being the architect on one of the old temples for a historical restoration. Its amazing who you see on the construction site.

[jbalm]

That was Paul H. Dunn.

[NoGreaterLove]

As far as the Church buying up land in Missouri, that has been happening since Joseph Smith. It increased back in the 1990s drastically. I have personal knowledge of this. Well sort of.
My wife and I were going to buy property in Missouri back in the 90's and contacted a Realtor there. She said I better hurry up because the Mormons were buying up large tracts of land on both sides of the Missouri River and other places. She said she had noticed a big increase in purchases by the Church.

[Nan]

Did you tell her you were a mormon?

[LukeAir2008]

[bobhenstra]

Hartman Rector wasn't in trouble, Paul Dunn was. Lets get the stories straight before commenting on them, please!

Bob