LDS Freedom Forum

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 7:11 am Which prophecy do you believe?

“Finally, my dear sisters, may I suggest to you something that has not been said before or at least in quite this way. Much of the major growth that is coming to the Church in the last days will come because many of the good women of the world (in whom there is often such an inner sense of spirituality) will be drawn to the Church in large numbers. This will happen to the degree that the women of the Church reflect righteousness and articulateness in their lives and to the degree that the women of the Church are seen as distinct and different--in happy ways--from the women of the world.“
Spencer Kimball

OR

“Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.
18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,
The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,
20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,
21 The rings, and nose jewels,
22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,
23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the veils.
24 And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.
25 Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.
26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she being desolate shall sit upon the ground.“
Isaiah

Iceberg wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 10:08 am I think of the Isaiah scripture almost everyday of my life...people like to buy me cute clothes and I wear makeup because it makes me feel more ready for the day. In college I worked in the mall at a women’s fashion store. The store manager gave me a new title with a $0.25 pay increase called accessories (jewelry and sunglasses, ect) manager. I was reading BOM in 2 Nephi at the time of my little raise and I’m like man...I feel guilty.

I make friends with spirituality minded women but guess what most are not LDS. I was thinking about the SWK quote yesterday because I’m like...I’m not seeing it. There are some nice ladies at church but honestly my most profound relationships with friends who are spiritually guided are outside the church.

Either way I’ll take Isaiah over a latter day GA. I know I have repenting to do and I try.

And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.

Oldemandalton wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 10:50 amBoth

Iceberg wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 11:37 am
Yes, I was thinking more and I think you are right.

Btw random...I’m recently back on FB and I saw some of your memes of comparing and contrasting modern LDS leaders’ quotes with scripture or historical quotes on a couple people’s pages. Those are very efficient messages. Good job.

sushi_chef wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 5:45 pm "In a powerful and inspiring tribute to the daughter of Zion, Moroni concludes the entire Book of Mormon record by echoing Nephi’s prophecies. Like Nephi and Jacob, who knew of the future scourge of unrighteousness, Moroni beheld the actual destruction of his people, and yet his final message expresses hope that the daughter of Zion will one day be enthroned and endowed, like the goddess Ishtar, due to the Book of Mormon’s salvific power:

Awake, and arise from the dust, O Jerusalem;
yea, and put on thy beautiful garments, O daughter of Zion;
and strengthen thy stakes and enlarge thy borders forever,
that thou mayest no more be confounded,
that the covenants of the Eternal Father which he hath made unto thee, O house of Israel, may be fulfilled. (Moroni 10:31, cf. Isaiah 52:2).

Endowed with beautiful garments of power and glory, the daughter of Zion is the divine, feminine manifestation of God’s righteous sons and daughters passing through the veil of mortality and entering into the joy, rest, and holiness of the Lord.1
"
above https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/ ... er-of-zion

sushi_ definitely opines that must relate to "Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose"

"49: 23 Wherefore, be not deceived, but continue in steadfastness, looking forth for the heavens to be shaken, and the earth to tremble and to reel to and fro as a drunken man, and for the valleys to be exalted, and for the mountains to be made low, and for the rough places to become smoothand all this when the angel shall sound his trumpet.

24 But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose.

25 Zion shall flourish upon the hills and rejoice upon the mountains, and shall be assembled together unto the place which I have appointed.
"

so, in that case lds members patiently need to wait see earth trembling happens, just like hopi's waiting blue star kachina ..

yep, 10 north tribes return, their star(separated from the earth) appearance ..

in that case a denver snuffer's prophecy should be good one,

"Prophecy given by Denver Snuffer Jr., 3 March 2013.

When the Seed of the Woman was born, a new star appeared in the heavens. In like manner, when the Lion of Judah returns, as with his first coming, there will be a new star seen. All the world will note its appearance and shall be troubled at its meaning. When it makes its appearance, you may know His return is soon upon the world. You may also know by that sign that he has given to me the words I have faithfully taught as His servant.
"
https://scriptures.info/scriptures/tc/section/164
new star snuffer denver
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22new+star%2 ... =h_&ia=web

Sarah wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 2:54 pm I found some commentary about the phrase "daughter of Zion."
https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/ ... er-of-zion

I've wondered if we have always interpreted this verse incorrectly. When we read the phrase "daughter of Zion" we understand that Isaiah is referring to the people of Jerusalem or the Jews, and also perhaps to the house of Israel. So "daughters" plural, may refer to different branches of the house of Israel. The article above does a great job explaining what the clothing represents.

Being There wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 10:01 pm

Sarah wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 2:54 pm I found some commentary about the phrase "daughter of Zion."
https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/ ... er-of-zion

I've wondered if we have always interpreted this verse incorrectly. When we read the phrase "daughter of Zion" we understand that Isaiah is referring to the people of Jerusalem or the Jews, and also perhaps to the house of Israel. So "daughters" plural, may refer to different branches of the house of Israel. The article above does a great job explaining what the clothing represents.

3 Nephi 23
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

I think this is more what the Lord had in mind, and more in line with what Isaiah is saying
about the "daughter of Zion."

Isaiah 1
8 The Daughter of Zion is left like a shelter in a vineyard, a hut in a melon field, a city under siege.

The Daughter of Zion. When defining Israel’s relationship to its God, the Hebrew prophets commonly characterize Israel as a woman and Jehovah as her husband within the marriage covenant.
Because Jehovah’s people as a whole have apostatized, however, persons among them who survive Assyria’s destruction comprise but a small remnant of Jehovah’s people. Called “Zion” or the “Daughter of Zion” (Isaiah 37:22; 52:2; 62:11), these survivors represent a higher spiritual category of Jehovah’s people than the “Israel” category because of their faithfulness to his covenant through many trials.

The Daughter of Zion is left. The idea of being “left” signifies the survival of a remnant of Jehovah’s people at the time the rest perish. It underscores the dire conditions under which some survive. Word links in the Book of Isaiah identify those who are “left” as persons who return from exile in a new exodus to Zion (Isaiah 11:11, 16), who survive Assyria’s siege of Jerusalem (Isaiah 37:4), who remain “as a flagstaff on a mountaintop, an ensign on a hill” (Isaiah 30:17), whose names are “inscribed among the living at Jerusalem” (Isaiah 4:3), and who are called “the holy offspring” (Isaiah 6:13).

A shelter in a vineyard. While Jehovah’s “vineyard” denotes the Promised Land (Isaiah 5:1-7), in the millennial age it extends to the entire earth (Isaiah 27:2-6). The “shelter” refers to Jehovah’s cloud of glory that protects a remnant of his people as it did ancient Israel (Exodus 14:19-20, Exodus 14:19-20, 24): “Over the whole site of Mount Zion, and over its solemn assembly, Jehovah will form a cloud by day and a mist glowing with fire by night: above all that is glorious shall be a canopy. It shall be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, a secret refuge from the downpour and from rain” (Isaiah 4:5-6; cf. 25:4-5).

A hut in a melon field. The idea of a “hut” suggests the presence of a watchman who guards the field against thieves and wild animals. A synonym of the term “shelter”—which appears in parallel with it—the “hut” further connotes protection from the elements, such as a rainstorm or the heat of the sun, whose imagery alludes to Jehovah’s Day of Judgment (Isaiah 17:13; 18:4-6; 25:4-5; 28:2, 14-19; 32:19; 40:24; 49:10). As a watchman’s role includes sounding the alarm when danger approaches (Isaiah 21:6-10), so those who heed the watchman’s warning are persons most likely to survive.

A city under siege. The “city” motif—which here appears in parallel with the “shelter” and “hut”—provides another metaphor of Jehovah’s people. Ultimately there emerge two cities in the Book of Isaiah that represent Jehovah’s covenant people: one wicked, the other righteous; one destroyed, the other delivered (v 21; Isaiah 24:10-12; 26:1-6; 33:20; 52:1-2; 66:6).
The expression “under siege” (nesurah), moreover, possesses a double meaning in Hebrew: (1) “under siege”; and (2) “preserved.” In other words, although the righteous city may come under siege by enemies, Jehovah preserves it.


9 Had not Jehovah of Hosts left us a few survivors, we should have been as Sodom, or become like Gomorrah.

A type or precedent of the “few survivors” of Jehovah’s people who are “left” after the destruction are Lot and his two daughters who escaped God’s ancient destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:24-30). Representing a pattern of what happens in the end-time, when Jehovah sends his angels to escort Lot and his family out of Sodom, his sons-in-law consider it foolish while Lot’s wife looks back and perishes (Genesis 19:12-23; cf. Matthew 24:31). The full authoritative title “Jehovah of Hosts” underscores the gravity of these events and the fact that Israel’s God is in charge of world affairs.

Sodom . . . Gomorrah. The names Sodom and Gomorrah remind us of those ancient cities and their inhabitants and what they came to symbolize. In their perverse lifestyle their residents grew so aggressive that they attempted to violate the angels of God who were Lot’s guests (Genesis 19:1-11).
Isaiah’s drawing on this type when predicting the end-time lets us know that once they lose God’s light his people start to resemble those ancient inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah. When his people’s devotion to Jehovah becomes but a shallow version of his law and word, it lacks the power to withstand evil.

The names Sodom and Gomorrah additionally function as word links to Babylon: “And Babylon, the most splendid of kingdoms, the glory and pride of Chaldeans, shall be [thrown down] as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah” (Isaiah 13:19). Isaiah’s structurally developed concept of a Greater Babylon—resembling John’s “Babylon the Great”—identifies it as an evil world conglomerate on the eve of its destruction (Isaiah 13-23, 47; Revelation 17-18). That a wicked majority of Jehovah’s people suffers the same fate Babylon does implies that it too has become identified with Babylon.

The idea of “cities burned with fire” that describes the destruction of Jehovah’s people (v 7) alludes to the desolation of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their residents by a hail of fire and brimstone (Genesis 19:24-25; cf. Isaiah 32:19). While the end-time version of that event may involve a similar cosmic cataclysm, Isaiah attributes the destruction of the world’s cities to the king of Assyria/Babylon (Isaiah 37:26). In view of modern weaponry’s ability to destroy entire cities in seconds, such technology in the hands of an archtyrant may thus account for Isaiah’s end-time scenario (Isaiah 9:18-19).


10 Hear the word of Jehovah, O leaders of Sodom; give heed to the law of our God, you people of Gomorrah!

To call Jehovah’s people and their leaders by the names Sodom and Gomorrah
is to compare their moral degeneracy to that of those cities’ ancient inhabitants.
As the leaders of a people generally reflect the people themselves, and as the political and ecclesiastical leaders of Jehovah’s people parallel each other in the Book of Isaiah, their spiritual condition holds little hope for the rising generation. When things reach that point, Jehovah’s people are fortunate indeed if Jehovah offers them a last warning.
For those who accept it, there may yet be a chance of deliverance; otherwise, their destruction is assured.

Hear the word of Jehovah . . . give heed to the law of our God. Knowing that Jehovah does nothing unless he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets (Amos 3:7), he sends a warning voice before destroying his people.
In the Book of Isaiah, that warning voice is Jehovah’s servant, of whom Isaiah is a type.
Pointing them to Jehovah’s “law” and “word—to the terms of his covenant—the servant directs them to the one thing that has the power to reverse their circumstances. Replacing current aberrant religious practices with keeping Jehovah’s law and word remains his people’s only hope.