LDS Freedom Forum

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 3:11 pm

oneClimbs wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 2:16 pm

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 1:20 pm

oneClimbs wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 1:05 pm

I have a piece of granite on my shelf right now from the San Antonio Temple construction site. Let's say I wanted it embedded into my gravestone because I love my local temple so much. Is that narcissistic?

Is it as big as a kitchen table and include your "highest" priesthood calling on it? Was it hewn by the hands of impoverished pioneers who sacrificed their all for Zion?

Can we just say it plainly? It's not normal to have an enormous granite pillar from a pioneer temple sitting on top of you and your two dead spouses. And wasn't that the point? To distinguish him from everyone else?

That's clearly not as big as a kitchen table unless it is an American Girl doll kitchen table (I have four daughters). See that little cheap US flag down there, those are about the size of the palm of your hand. That's either a 4x6" or a 5x8" flag. Judging by the size of the stick, let's say it's the bigger 5x8" if you go off the top side which is straight, that's 8" so if you use that to measure the base and the top (which I did real quick in Photoshop) you're looking at about 40" or so which is 3.33' which is close to my estimate before of 3' (I was in construction for years and am pretty good at estimating the sizes of things by eye). The width looks to be about 20" so this isn't exactly an imposing monument. It needs to be big enough to feature the names of the six people that are on it anyway.

headstone.jpg

President of the church is a significant thing, it's historical, I'm sure that people put whatever they want on their headstones. I'll bet of all the things he's done in his life, he feels like his time as president of the church is probably the most valuable to him. I think that those pioneers might prefer that their hard work be used for something significant like a headstone rather than just be dumped off somewhere. I'm sure some of that stone may have been used in other ways as well, but once it has no longer served its purpose, it can be used for other things much like the sacrament bread. We used to feed it to the birds afterward. It is just stone after all.

There's a picture of Hinckley's headstone as well and Nelson's looks almost identical. I wonder if there are a bunch of others that look like that out there too. If you've been to a graveyard, there are all kinds of headstones and even some mausoleums that are like little buildings which are much bigger than a little headstone. That one headstone probably uses the same amount of space as if you made three of them. It's quite modest for someone that is the leader of a world religion.

Now if it was a 20' bronze statue of him with an arm lifted high or something, I'd probably be on the side of criticism. I just see this as a big nothing burger.

Well, glad ya feel that way, OC. To my mind, it feels a bit like we have an idolatry problem, but if you're ok with the adulations and monuments, may you be so exalted as to have one of your own some day.

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 12:12 pm

Pazooka wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 11:51 am I don’t think anyone here is looking askance at the fact that he’s got his headstone prepared ahead of his demise.

It’s the presumptuousness of having it hewn from temple stone and his clear broadcasting of that fact. Look how high it is in comparison with the other headstones in the cemetery.

I wonder if I could get my gravestone made out a piece of the temple too. Or is that only reserved for the elite?

Robin Hood wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 10:02 am

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 9:19 am

The Red Pill wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 9:18 am Great men NEVER write their own obituaries or prepare monuments for themselves...

THEY DON'T HAVE TO!!!!!!!!

Yes, when has anyone ever bought a headstone when their spouse died and put their own name on it intending to be buried there!?!?!

Maybe it's an American thing, but that doesn't happen here.
Space is left for another name etc to be added, but we would never put names and details of a living person on a headstone in anticipation of their death.

oneClimbs wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 3:51 pm

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 3:11 pm

oneClimbs wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 2:16 pm

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 1:20 pm

Is it as big as a kitchen table and include your "highest" priesthood calling on it? Was it hewn by the hands of impoverished pioneers who sacrificed their all for Zion?

Can we just say it plainly? It's not normal to have an enormous granite pillar from a pioneer temple sitting on top of you and your two dead spouses. And wasn't that the point? To distinguish him from everyone else?

That's clearly not as big as a kitchen table unless it is an American Girl doll kitchen table (I have four daughters). See that little cheap US flag down there, those are about the size of the palm of your hand. That's either a 4x6" or a 5x8" flag. Judging by the size of the stick, let's say it's the bigger 5x8" if you go off the top side which is straight, that's 8" so if you use that to measure the base and the top (which I did real quick in Photoshop) you're looking at about 40" or so which is 3.33' which is close to my estimate before of 3' (I was in construction for years and am pretty good at estimating the sizes of things by eye). The width looks to be about 20" so this isn't exactly an imposing monument. It needs to be big enough to feature the names of the six people that are on it anyway.

headstone.jpg

President of the church is a significant thing, it's historical, I'm sure that people put whatever they want on their headstones. I'll bet of all the things he's done in his life, he feels like his time as president of the church is probably the most valuable to him. I think that those pioneers might prefer that their hard work be used for something significant like a headstone rather than just be dumped off somewhere. I'm sure some of that stone may have been used in other ways as well, but once it has no longer served its purpose, it can be used for other things much like the sacrament bread. We used to feed it to the birds afterward. It is just stone after all.

There's a picture of Hinckley's headstone as well and Nelson's looks almost identical. I wonder if there are a bunch of others that look like that out there too. If you've been to a graveyard, there are all kinds of headstones and even some mausoleums that are like little buildings which are much bigger than a little headstone. That one headstone probably uses the same amount of space as if you made three of them. It's quite modest for someone that is the leader of a world religion.

Now if it was a 20' bronze statue of him with an arm lifted high or something, I'd probably be on the side of criticism. I just see this as a big nothing burger.

Well, glad ya feel that way, OC. To my mind, it feels a bit like we have an idolatry problem, but if you're ok with the adulations and monuments, may you be so exalted as to have one of your own some day.

Haha, I know we have a cult of personality problem in the church and I noticed it with Hinckley's churchwide birthday parties but I've come to realize that it has existed long before that. I just think that this headstone business is being blown way out of proportion.

I wonder if I could get my gravestone made out a piece of the temple too. Or is that only reserved for the elite?

Whether in jest or seriousness, the question is thought to be based on what Thomas Aquinas wrote in his Summa Theologica, (circa 1270 AD). In it he proposed several questions about angels, such as "Can several angels be in the same place?

buffalo_girl wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 6:06 pm

I wonder if I could get my gravestone made out a piece of the temple too. Or is that only reserved for the elite?

"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

Whether in jest or seriousness, the question is thought to be based on what Thomas Aquinas wrote in his Summa Theologica, (circa 1270 AD). In it he proposed several questions about angels, such as "Can several angels be in the same place?

In contrast, I have to regard with reverence the wolf-scattered bones of those who died in Wyoming trying to reach ZION by pulling wood warped handcarts through icy rivers & snow at altitudes and temperatures never before experienced.

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 3:15 pm

762X545 wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 3:10 pm

The Red Pill wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 9:18 am Great men NEVER write their own obituaries or prepare monuments for themselves...

THEY DON'T HAVE TO!!!!!!!!

I designed my headstone ahead of my departure. I didn't want my wife putting something gay like a temple silhouette or some other lame design on it. I chose what I wanted and the design, rock etc.

"gay like a temple silhouette" <- now that's funny use of words right there.

What did you pick? AK-74 chambered in 5.45?

762X545 wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 3:10 pm

The Red Pill wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 9:18 am Great men NEVER write their own obituaries or prepare monuments for themselves...

THEY DON'T HAVE TO!!!!!!!!

I designed my headstone ahead of my departure. I didn't want my wife putting something gay like a temple silhouette or some other lame design on it. I chose what I wanted and the design, rock etc.

Pazooka wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 8:39 am What hast thou here? and whom hast thou here, that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? ~Isaiah 22:16

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 8:00 pm

762X545 wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 3:10 pm

The Red Pill wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 9:18 am Great men NEVER write their own obituaries or prepare monuments for themselves...

THEY DON'T HAVE TO!!!!!!!!

I designed my headstone ahead of my departure. I didn't want my wife putting something gay like a temple silhouette or some other lame design on it. I chose what I wanted and the design, rock etc.

(grassyass for the laugh hermano!)

EvanLM wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 6:16 pm well, regardless of opinion, under that dirt we all look the same . . .just a mass of bone and fat . . . no headstone or mauselum can change that . . .

that's why I couldn't figure out why tuts body was dragged from place to place . . what is the interest in a dead body ?

we kinda just all look the same and have the same influence . . . the book of life is closed. . . over . . .gone . . .

oneClimbs wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 2:16 pm

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 1:20 pm

oneClimbs wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 1:05 pm

Fred wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 12:17 pm

It might have not been from the temple. It said from the temple renovation. That could be a new piece of granite that was used to replace an old piece. But either way, it is narcissistic.

I have a piece of granite on my shelf right now from the San Antonio Temple construction site. Let's say I wanted it embedded into my gravestone because I love my local temple so much. Is that narcissistic?

Is it as big as a kitchen table and include your "highest" priesthood calling on it? Was it hewn by the hands of impoverished pioneers who sacrificed their all for Zion?

Can we just say it plainly? It's not normal to have an enormous granite pillar from a pioneer temple sitting on top of you and your two dead spouses. And wasn't that the point? To distinguish him from everyone else?

That's clearly not as big as a kitchen table unless it is an American Girl doll kitchen table (I have four daughters). See that little cheap US flag down there, those are about the size of the palm of your hand. That's either a 4x6" or a 5x8" flag. Judging by the size of the stick, let's say it's the bigger 5x8" if you go off the top side which is straight, that's 8" so if you use that to measure the base and the top (which I did real quick in Photoshop) you're looking at about 40" or so which is 3.33' which is close to my estimate before of 3' (I was in construction for years and am pretty good at estimating the sizes of things by eye). The width looks to be about 20" so this isn't exactly an imposing monument. It needs to be big enough to feature the names of the six people that are on it anyway.

headstone.jpg

President of the church is a significant thing, it's historical, I'm sure that people put whatever they want on their headstones. I'll bet of all the things he's done in his life, he feels like his time as president of the church is probably the most valuable to him. I think that those pioneers might prefer that their hard work be used for something significant like a headstone rather than just be dumped off somewhere. I'm sure some of that stone may have been used in other ways as well, but once it has no longer served its purpose, it can be used for other things much like the sacrament bread. We used to feed it to the birds afterward. It is just stone after all.

There's a picture of Hinckley's headstone as well and Nelson's looks almost identical. I wonder if there are a bunch of others that look like that out there too. If you've been to a graveyard, there are all kinds of headstones and even some mausoleums that are like little buildings which are much bigger than a little headstone. That one headstone probably uses the same amount of space as if you made three of them. It's quite modest for someone that is the leader of a world religion.

Now if it was a 20' bronze statue of him with an arm lifted high or something, I'd probably be on the side of criticism. I just see this as a big nothing burger.

Atrasado wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 11:33 pm

oneClimbs wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 2:16 pm

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 1:20 pm

oneClimbs wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 1:05 pm

I have a piece of granite on my shelf right now from the San Antonio Temple construction site. Let's say I wanted it embedded into my gravestone because I love my local temple so much. Is that narcissistic?

Is it as big as a kitchen table and include your "highest" priesthood calling on it? Was it hewn by the hands of impoverished pioneers who sacrificed their all for Zion?

Can we just say it plainly? It's not normal to have an enormous granite pillar from a pioneer temple sitting on top of you and your two dead spouses. And wasn't that the point? To distinguish him from everyone else?

That's clearly not as big as a kitchen table unless it is an American Girl doll kitchen table (I have four daughters). See that little cheap US flag down there, those are about the size of the palm of your hand. That's either a 4x6" or a 5x8" flag. Judging by the size of the stick, let's say it's the bigger 5x8" if you go off the top side which is straight, that's 8" so if you use that to measure the base and the top (which I did real quick in Photoshop) you're looking at about 40" or so which is 3.33' which is close to my estimate before of 3' (I was in construction for years and am pretty good at estimating the sizes of things by eye). The width looks to be about 20" so this isn't exactly an imposing monument. It needs to be big enough to feature the names of the six people that are on it anyway.

headstone.jpg

President of the church is a significant thing, it's historical, I'm sure that people put whatever they want on their headstones. I'll bet of all the things he's done in his life, he feels like his time as president of the church is probably the most valuable to him. I think that those pioneers might prefer that their hard work be used for something significant like a headstone rather than just be dumped off somewhere. I'm sure some of that stone may have been used in other ways as well, but once it has no longer served its purpose, it can be used for other things much like the sacrament bread. We used to feed it to the birds afterward. It is just stone after all.

There's a picture of Hinckley's headstone as well and Nelson's looks almost identical. I wonder if there are a bunch of others that look like that out there too. If you've been to a graveyard, there are all kinds of headstones and even some mausoleums that are like little buildings which are much bigger than a little headstone. That one headstone probably uses the same amount of space as if you made three of them. It's quite modest for someone that is the leader of a world religion.

Now if it was a 20' bronze statue of him with an arm lifted high or something, I'd probably be on the side of criticism. I just see this as a big nothing burger.

Have you been there? Apparently, not if you're basing your post on some guess of how tall the little flag next to it is. I've only found one website that says how tall it is and it says it's eight feet tall. It's written by a guy that clearly isn't pleased with the Church, but he lives in Salt Lake City so maybe he's gone to look at it. So, I'm curious if anyone who lives in Salt Lake City or close by wants some homework. How about someone drive to the cemetery with a tape measure and tell us how tall it is. A picture of you standing next to it would be great, too. I would love to do it, but I'm three hours away and I can't get away right now. It's great to theorize about things. I find that actually examining them is always better.

oneClimbs wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 8:31 am

Atrasado wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 11:33 pm

oneClimbs wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 2:16 pm

iWriteStuff wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 1:20 pm

Is it as big as a kitchen table and include your "highest" priesthood calling on it? Was it hewn by the hands of impoverished pioneers who sacrificed their all for Zion?

Can we just say it plainly? It's not normal to have an enormous granite pillar from a pioneer temple sitting on top of you and your two dead spouses. And wasn't that the point? To distinguish him from everyone else?

That's clearly not as big as a kitchen table unless it is an American Girl doll kitchen table (I have four daughters). See that little cheap US flag down there, those are about the size of the palm of your hand. That's either a 4x6" or a 5x8" flag. Judging by the size of the stick, let's say it's the bigger 5x8" if you go off the top side which is straight, that's 8" so if you use that to measure the base and the top (which I did real quick in Photoshop) you're looking at about 40" or so which is 3.33' which is close to my estimate before of 3' (I was in construction for years and am pretty good at estimating the sizes of things by eye). The width looks to be about 20" so this isn't exactly an imposing monument. It needs to be big enough to feature the names of the six people that are on it anyway.

headstone.jpg

President of the church is a significant thing, it's historical, I'm sure that people put whatever they want on their headstones. I'll bet of all the things he's done in his life, he feels like his time as president of the church is probably the most valuable to him. I think that those pioneers might prefer that their hard work be used for something significant like a headstone rather than just be dumped off somewhere. I'm sure some of that stone may have been used in other ways as well, but once it has no longer served its purpose, it can be used for other things much like the sacrament bread. We used to feed it to the birds afterward. It is just stone after all.

There's a picture of Hinckley's headstone as well and Nelson's looks almost identical. I wonder if there are a bunch of others that look like that out there too. If you've been to a graveyard, there are all kinds of headstones and even some mausoleums that are like little buildings which are much bigger than a little headstone. That one headstone probably uses the same amount of space as if you made three of them. It's quite modest for someone that is the leader of a world religion.

Now if it was a 20' bronze statue of him with an arm lifted high or something, I'd probably be on the side of criticism. I just see this as a big nothing burger.

Have you been there? Apparently, not if you're basing your post on some guess of how tall the little flag next to it is. I've only found one website that says how tall it is and it says it's eight feet tall. It's written by a guy that clearly isn't pleased with the Church, but he lives in Salt Lake City so maybe he's gone to look at it. So, I'm curious if anyone who lives in Salt Lake City or close by wants some homework. How about someone drive to the cemetery with a tape measure and tell us how tall it is. A picture of you standing next to it would be great, too. I would love to do it, but I'm three hours away and I can't get away right now. It's great to theorize about things. I find that actually examining them is always better.

I'm just contributing to the discussion. I deal with graphics for a living, I was also in landscaping for 10 years and I know grass and that's another clue as to the size, there are a lot of clues to guess the height of the headstone and it's definitely not 8' tall. When people are making things up and trying to blow things out of proportion, that just loses credibility with me. You can tell from the folds in the flag as well that it's a little one unless they starched the heck out of a larger one.

My point is that there are so many important issues and here are people trying to find evil in every place they can. The guy has lived a long life, he's been a leader in his profession and church a long time and he has a 3.5' tall headstone made out of discarded granite from a construction project. I'm a very open-minded person but I haven't heard anyone in this thread make any points that I'd take seriously.

Atrasado wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 9:12 am

oneClimbs wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 8:31 am

Atrasado wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 11:33 pm

oneClimbs wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 2:16 pm

That's clearly not as big as a kitchen table unless it is an American Girl doll kitchen table (I have four daughters). See that little cheap US flag down there, those are about the size of the palm of your hand. That's either a 4x6" or a 5x8" flag. Judging by the size of the stick, let's say it's the bigger 5x8" if you go off the top side which is straight, that's 8" so if you use that to measure the base and the top (which I did real quick in Photoshop) you're looking at about 40" or so which is 3.33' which is close to my estimate before of 3' (I was in construction for years and am pretty good at estimating the sizes of things by eye). The width looks to be about 20" so this isn't exactly an imposing monument. It needs to be big enough to feature the names of the six people that are on it anyway.

headstone.jpg

President of the church is a significant thing, it's historical, I'm sure that people put whatever they want on their headstones. I'll bet of all the things he's done in his life, he feels like his time as president of the church is probably the most valuable to him. I think that those pioneers might prefer that their hard work be used for something significant like a headstone rather than just be dumped off somewhere. I'm sure some of that stone may have been used in other ways as well, but once it has no longer served its purpose, it can be used for other things much like the sacrament bread. We used to feed it to the birds afterward. It is just stone after all.

There's a picture of Hinckley's headstone as well and Nelson's looks almost identical. I wonder if there are a bunch of others that look like that out there too. If you've been to a graveyard, there are all kinds of headstones and even some mausoleums that are like little buildings which are much bigger than a little headstone. That one headstone probably uses the same amount of space as if you made three of them. It's quite modest for someone that is the leader of a world religion.

Now if it was a 20' bronze statue of him with an arm lifted high or something, I'd probably be on the side of criticism. I just see this as a big nothing burger.

Have you been there? Apparently, not if you're basing your post on some guess of how tall the little flag next to it is. I've only found one website that says how tall it is and it says it's eight feet tall. It's written by a guy that clearly isn't pleased with the Church, but he lives in Salt Lake City so maybe he's gone to look at it. So, I'm curious if anyone who lives in Salt Lake City or close by wants some homework. How about someone drive to the cemetery with a tape measure and tell us how tall it is. A picture of you standing next to it would be great, too. I would love to do it, but I'm three hours away and I can't get away right now. It's great to theorize about things. I find that actually examining them is always better.

I'm just contributing to the discussion. I deal with graphics for a living, I was also in landscaping for 10 years and I know grass and that's another clue as to the size, there are a lot of clues to guess the height of the headstone and it's definitely not 8' tall. When people are making things up and trying to blow things out of proportion, that just loses credibility with me. You can tell from the folds in the flag as well that it's a little one unless they starched the heck out of a larger one.

My point is that there are so many important issues and here are people trying to find evil in every place they can. The guy has lived a long life, he's been a leader in his profession and church a long time and he has a 3.5' tall headstone made out of discarded granite from a construction project. I'm a very open-minded person but I haven't heard anyone in this thread make any points that I'd take seriously.

I know how to use Photoshop, I've cut a lot of grass in my time, and I'm pretty good at making estimates. It doesn't look eight feet tall to me, either. But I haven't BEEN THERE, and neither have you. Things that seem certain in a picture can be wildly different in real life.

In the SLTrib it says, "mourners strolling through the northwest quadrant of the historic Salt Lake City Cemetery might be startled to see a tall granite shaft emblazoned with the name Russell M. Nelson and the words "Seventeenth President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."" I'm assuming that if it is "tall" and it startles people it isn't 3.5 feet tall. Here's a picture from the blog post that claims it is eight feet tall.



Obviously, President and Sister Nelson were photoshopped in, but this angle gives a much different view of the size of the headstone and the American flag in front of it. I think it probably is eight feet tall. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's the case.

Niemand wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 5:16 pm

Robin Hood wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 10:02 am

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 9:19 am

The Red Pill wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 9:18 am Great men NEVER write their own obituaries or prepare monuments for themselves...

THEY DON'T HAVE TO!!!!!!!!

Yes, when has anyone ever bought a headstone when their spouse died and put their own name on it intending to be buried there!?!?!

Maybe it's an American thing, but that doesn't happen here.
Space is left for another name etc to be added, but we would never put names and details of a living person on a headstone in anticipation of their death.

It happened with my parents' gravestone. My father died first. My mother's name was on it. So is mine, which is strange when I think about it.

sushi_chef wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 10:41 am
Heber_J._Grant
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Heber_J._Grant

Lexew1899 wrote: ↑March 9th, 2022, 2:03 pm It looks like it is indeed about 8 feet tall. Around 3:18 he stands next to it, and it is much taller than he is.