LDS Freedom Forum

So, why is it so generalized? It’s an interesting question, especially considering the Church’s deep anti-Soviet sensibilities of the second half of the 20th century. Vladimir Putin has done more than any other leader to return Russia to those times of dictatorship. In 2020, for example, he pushed through legislation that will enable him to remain in power until 2036, voiding the two-term limit that had prevailed since a fragile democracy was established in the 1993 constitution. He has worked to curtail freedom and promote authoritarianism. Yet the Church has said next to nothing by way of criticism of him or of these actions.

I suspect this is due to the Church’s own self-interest. In 2018, President Russell M. Nelson announced the creation of Russia’s first-ever Latter-day Saint temple. The fact that the location for the temple has not been announced suggests it’s still a sensitive topic of negotiation. It seems likely that LDS leaders have no wish to antagonize Putin, regardless of what he has done in Ukraine and at home.

It’s a delicate situation for the Church in Russia, fraught with rising tension. LDS missionaries there have during Putin’s reign been forbidden from religious proselytizing; they have to be called “volunteers” instead of missionaries and are limited to service opportunities. And even with that proviso, two LDS missionaries-cum-volunteers were arrested in 2019* and detained for three weeks in an immigration facility because they were allegedly teaching English without a license.

Ontario wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 1:16 pm So, why is it so generalized? It’s an interesting question, especially considering the Church’s deep anti-Soviet sensibilities of the second half of the 20th century. Vladimir Putin has done more than any other leader to return Russia to those times of dictatorship. In 2020, for example, he pushed through legislation that will enable him to remain in power until 2036, voiding the two-term limit that had prevailed since a fragile democracy was established in the 1993 constitution. He has worked to curtail freedom and promote authoritarianism. Yet the Church has said next to nothing by way of criticism of him or of these actions.

I suspect this is due to the Church’s own self-interest. In 2018, President Russell M. Nelson announced the creation of Russia’s first-ever Latter-day Saint temple. The fact that the location for the temple has not been announced suggests it’s still a sensitive topic of negotiation. It seems likely that LDS leaders have no wish to antagonize Putin, regardless of what he has done in Ukraine and at home.

It’s a delicate situation for the Church in Russia, fraught with rising tension. LDS missionaries there have during Putin’s reign been forbidden from religious proselytizing; they have to be called “volunteers” instead of missionaries and are limited to service opportunities. And even with that proviso, two LDS missionaries-cum-volunteers were arrested in 2019* and detained for three weeks in an immigration facility because they were allegedly teaching English without a license.

The church overall wants neutrality in this, as members are present in both The Ukraine and Russia. But overall, I have long had the thought that Putin was always a Communist, just put on a good show to get the power. Now, I think the Church is in the point of realizing that some ideal Democracy of a Nation will just be a bit too ideal and having a church presence inside a repressive regime will simply be an inevitability. I feel that similar to war where Missionaries get called out of a war zone, or a plague zone such as Sub Saharan Africa during 2015 - 2016 Ebola epidemics the same will happen here.

Yesterday the State Department told all Americans to leave Russia immediately .

OCDMOM wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 1:33 pm Yesterday the State Department told all Americans to leave Russia immediately .

so we should do that so americans can be good global citizens

hopefully our leaders do not turn those missionaries into matyrs with their humanitarian service . . . . . prophet followed Biden yesterday . . what happened today . . the sacrafice of the lives of these missionaries would be a tragedy

orrections & Clarifications: A previous version of this article misspelled the name of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints spokesperson Sam Penrod.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on Friday said its leadership was "heartbroken and deeply concerned" by the Russian invasion of Ukraine, a month after its missionaries were evacuated from the area.

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The church has members in each of the areas affected by the war, which started with Russian President Vladimir Putin's declaration of a military operation in eastern Ukraine during a televised address overnight on Wednesday.

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Since then, scores of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians have been killed or injured as Russian forces advance toward the capital of Kyiv.

Even in the midst of ongoing violence, the First Presidency of the church said in a news release that "enduring peace can be found through Jesus Christ."

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Foreign Church volunteers in Russia evacuated
By Emma Gadeski -February 28, 2022442

Police close an entrance to Red Square to interfere with an action against Russia’s attack on Ukraine in Moscow, Russia, Monday, Feb. 28, 2022. Protests against the Russian invasion of Ukraine resumed on Monday, with people taking to the streets of Moscow and St. Petersburg and some other Russian towns despite mass arrests. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not have any foreign full-time volunteers in Russia at this time, Church spokesman Sam Penrod confirmed to The Daily Universe Monday. (AP Photo/Pavel Golovkin)
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not have any foreign full-time volunteers in Russia at this time, Church spokesman Sam Penrod confirmed to The Daily Universe Monday.

“I can confirm that as of mid-February, approximately 50 young volunteers have taken assignments outside of Russia, given the recent recommendation of many foreign governments advising against travel to Russia,” Penrod said.

“Local church meetings and services remain under the direction of local members, who serve as lay leaders in their congregations. The message of peace, love and hope in our Savior Jesus Christ continues to be lived and practiced in strict observance of all legal regulations,” Penrod said.

Church missionaries in Russia have been referred to as “volunteers” since 2016 to comply with the country’s Yarovaya law which bans people from preaching, proselyting or handing out religious materials outside of designated places.

The Church temporarily reassigned full-time missionaries in the Ukraine Dnipro and Ukraine Kyiv/Moldova missions to locations outside the country in late January.

LOCAL NEWS


LDS church says humanitarian efforts underway for Ukrainian refugees
Mormon Church Name
Photo by: Rick Bowmer/AP
The LDS Temple in Salt Lake City.
By: Melanie PorterPosted at 8:27 PM, Mar 03, 2022 and last updated 9:27 PM, Mar 03, 2022
SALT LAKE CITY — The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints says humanitarian efforts are underway in Eastern Europe amid attacks in Ukraine.

In a news release Thursday, church officials explained that relief has been in the works since the early hours of armed conflicts in Ukraine. Church leadership has been contacting organizations and leaders in the region to assess needs and purchase supplies, officials report.

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"Through decades of experience in providing assistance during natural disasters, refugee crises and other humanitarian conditions, we have developed a tested and proven model for identifying needs and providing assistance," a statement from The Church reads. "This model includes empowering local leaders to use the Church’s financial resources to purchase goods and services in the local economy to provide what is truly needed."

Read - LDS temple in Ukraine closed 'until further notice'

Church officials say sleeping bags, cots and tents will be delivered to local government agencies and other organizations who are helping refugees arriving in bordering countries.

"Additional aid is being organized," the church statement says.

Leadership encourages church members to fast and pray for those impacted and donate through the Church's Humanitarian Aid Fund if they are looking for additional ways to contribute.

I think we need to forget the blankets and send weapons . . .that's what Moroni did in occupied cities . . . armed the women and chidren big enough to carry a sword . . .

EvanLM wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 1:44 pm

OCDMOM wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 1:33 pm Yesterday the State Department told all Americans to leave Russia immediately .

so we should do that so americans can be good global citizens

Not all LDS missionaries in Russia are American.

“Church says all American Latter-day Saint 'volunteers' have left Russia. SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (KUTV) — As the United States government urges American citizens in Russia to consider immediately leaving the country, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints confirmed they no longer have any Americans serving there.”

Robin Hood wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 1:54 pm

EvanLM wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 1:44 pm

OCDMOM wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 1:33 pm Yesterday the State Department told all Americans to leave Russia immediately .

so we should do that so americans can be good global citizens

Not all LDS missionaries in Russia are American.

A lot of them will be Russian, because will put out a better image than Americans wandering around (because they'd look like spies). And yes,.I'd imagine some are Ukrainian, given the similarity between the languages and mutual intelligibility level. In which case they're on a sticky wicket. Probably a lot from other Slavic speaking countries.

And of course numerous other countries, including ours.

Their missionary efforts will have been heavily impacted by Covidiocy over the last two years.

The LDS is putting out a lot of pro-Ukraine messages just now, but I was happy to see F&T today in our ward included one brother who has worked in both the Ukraine and Russia, and he spoke highly of both peoples, and others who made similar statements. Whatever one thinks of Putin's activities, there has been a level of Russophobic stupidity which has crept in (under my thread about the most stupid anti-Russian reprisals - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65621 )

the war is not between the pople of ukraine and russia . . the war is between its elites

EvanLM wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 2:51 pm the war is not between the pople of ukraine and russia . . the war is between its elites

Yes, although ordinary people will struggle.

EvanLM wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 2:51 pm the war is not between the pople of ukraine and russia . . the war is between its elites

But it’s a crime to refuse to take part in the conflict in both those countries.

Benjamin_LK wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 5:50 am

EvanLM wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 2:51 pm the war is not between the pople of ukraine and russia . . the war is between its elites

But it’s a crime to refuse to take part in the conflict in both those countries.

True. Probably the easiest place to avoid this, ironically is in the breakaway Donetsk and Luhansk/Lugansk which haven't much government control.

Most Russians will not be involved directly. It will depend on your age and location. They have military service there, so I could see that conflicting with a mission - and some Russian missionaries will probably be called up. Ditto Ukrainian LDS missionaries. (Just to complicate things, there are probably Ukrainian LDS in Russia right now and Russian LDS in the Ukraine serving missions or holding callings.)

Niemand wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 5:59 am

Benjamin_LK wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 5:50 am

EvanLM wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 2:51 pm the war is not between the pople of ukraine and russia . . the war is between its elites

But it’s a crime to refuse to take part in the conflict in both those countries.

True. Probably the easiest place to avoid this, ironically is in the breakaway Donetsk and Luhansk/Lugansk which haven't much government control.

Most Russians will not be involved directly. It will depend on your age and location. They have military service there, so I could see that conflicting with a mission - and some Russian missionaries will probably be called up. Ditto Ukrainian LDS missionaries. (Just to complicate things, there are probably Ukrainian LDS in Russia right now and Russian LDS in the Ukraine serving missions or holding callings.)

Regular conscription is a regular part for most of the modern world. The United States had something close to that with state militias but the At has been neglected with the global imperialism of the nation. But it’s still constitutional for the State Governors to call for State Guard (23 states have their own constitutional state militias) or National Guard if they wish to. Thank Nixon and the 1970s Congress for starting the doctrine of not needing a National Draft and just a volunteer force.

Either way you serve as a conscript, have a really good reason for exemption (disability, health), or you are a criminal for refusing conscription.

The amount of foreign volunteers (a.k.a. missionaries) in Russia was very low:

On Friday, Feb. 25, Penrod said the Church currently has no foreign full-time volunteers in Russia.

“I can confirm that as of mid-February, approximately 50 young volunteers have taken assignments outside of Russia, given the recent recommendation of many foreign governments advising against travel to Russia,” he said.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/global/20 ... sia-244215

Note that they were moved out already in mid-February.

Did President Hinckley send foreign missionaries home from the U.S. when the U.S. invaded the middle east?

Ontario wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 1:16 pm So, why is it so generalized? It’s an interesting question, especially considering the Church’s deep anti-Soviet sensibilities of the second half of the 20th century. Vladimir Putin has done more than any other leader to return Russia to those times of dictatorship. In 2020, for example, he pushed through legislation that will enable him to remain in power until 2036, voiding the two-term limit that had prevailed since a fragile democracy was established in the 1993 constitution. He has worked to curtail freedom and promote authoritarianism. Yet the Church has said next to nothing by way of criticism of him or of these actions.

I suspect this is due to the Church’s own self-interest. In 2018, President Russell M. Nelson announced the creation of Russia’s first-ever Latter-day Saint temple. The fact that the location for the temple has not been announced suggests it’s still a sensitive topic of negotiation. It seems likely that LDS leaders have no wish to antagonize Putin, regardless of what he has done in Ukraine and at home.

It’s a delicate situation for the Church in Russia, fraught with rising tension. LDS missionaries there have during Putin’s reign been forbidden from religious proselytizing; they have to be called “volunteers” instead of missionaries and are limited to service opportunities. And even with that proviso, two LDS missionaries-cum-volunteers were arrested in 2019* and detained for three weeks in an immigration facility because they were allegedly teaching English without a license.

Hm, this post is written as if it were first person commentary, but it is a direct copy from this website: https://religionnews.com/2022/02/28/ami ... -conflict/, with no attribution given. If this were school and original posts were the assignments, Ontario'd be failing the class. Can we not properly cite sources, give credit where it's due and spend a few minutes summarizing our own thoughts ? What are we going to do when bot accounts eventually take over the forum and dilute it into obscurity with parsed-up copy-pastes ?

Benjamin_LK wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 6:22 am

Niemand wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 5:59 am

Benjamin_LK wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 5:50 am

EvanLM wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 2:51 pm the war is not between the pople of ukraine and russia . . the war is between its elites

But it’s a crime to refuse to take part in the conflict in both those countries.

True. Probably the easiest place to avoid this, ironically is in the breakaway Donetsk and Luhansk/Lugansk which haven't much government control.

Most Russians will not be involved directly. It will depend on your age and location. They have military service there, so I could see that conflicting with a mission - and some Russian missionaries will probably be called up. Ditto Ukrainian LDS missionaries. (Just to complicate things, there are probably Ukrainian LDS in Russia right now and Russian LDS in the Ukraine serving missions or holding callings.)

Regular conscription is a regular part for most of the modern world. The United States had something close to that with state militias but the At has been neglected with the global imperialism of the nation. But it’s still constitutional for the State Governors to call for State Guard (23 states have their own constitutional state militias) or National Guard if they wish to. Thank Nixon and the 1970s Congress for starting the doctrine of not needing a National Draft and just a volunteer force.

Either way you serve as a conscript, have a really good reason for exemption (disability, health), or you are a criminal for refusing conscription.

I don't know about the Ukraine, but Russia has a strong objection to religious exemptions- it's one of the reasons the JWs were banned there. The Quakers in Russia have probably faced similar issues but I haven't heard much about them there.

Thank Nixon and the 1970s Congress for starting the doctrine of not needing a National Draft and just a volunteer force.

No bearing on my life. We got rid of national service and conscription long before then. Volunteer armies tend to have a better service record than disgruntled conscripts.

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 6:41 am Did President Hinckley send foreign missionaries home from the U.S. when the U.S. invaded the middle east?

That doesn't matter. A completely different situation versus what is going on in RU.

inho wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 6:35 am The amount of foreign volunteers (a.k.a. missionaries) in Russia was very low:

On Friday, Feb. 25, Penrod said the Church currently has no foreign full-time volunteers in Russia.

“I can confirm that as of mid-February, approximately 50 young volunteers have taken assignments outside of Russia, given the recent recommendation of many foreign governments advising against travel to Russia,” he said.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/global/20 ... sia-244215

Note that they were moved out already in mid-February.

I do know non-Russians who have served missions there, but I think they've scaled it back. It benefits them to have native missionaries - less language training, fewer visa problems/expenses, also not looking/sounding like foreign spies (given Russia's history), being more accustomed to harsh climate etc. Also Russia is so vast that if one gets sent from one region to another, it can be like being in another country. You could fit the continental USA into the space between St. Petersburg and Petropavlovsk (Kamchatka) several times.

It wouldn't surprise me if they'd sent people from the Ukraine and other bits of the former USSR into Russia in better times, but it would be problematic to send Russian speakers from the Ukraine, Balts, Georgia and even Kazakhstan into there just now.

Niemand wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 7:31 am I do know non-Russians who have served missions there, but I think they've scaled it back. It benefits them to have native missionaries - less language training, fewer visa problems/expenses, also not looking/sounding like foreign spies (given Russia's history), being more accustomed to harsh climate etc. Also Russia is so vast that if one gets sent from one region to another, it can be like being in another country. You could fit the continental USA into the space between St. Petersburg and Petropavlovsk (Kamchatka) several times.

It wouldn't surprise me if they'd sent people from the Ukraine and other bits of the former USSR into Russia in better times, but it would be problematic to send Russian speakers from the Ukraine, Balts, Georgia and even Kazakhstan into there just now.

I know many Finnish people who have served their missions in Russia. Apparently they didn't have the same visa problems as Americans. I heard that the American missionaries came to the embassy in Finland to renew their visas after one year. It was one of those rare chances to travel outside your mission.

inho wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 7:53 am

Niemand wrote: ↑March 8th, 2022, 7:31 am I do know non-Russians who have served missions there, but I think they've scaled it back. It benefits them to have native missionaries - less language training, fewer visa problems/expenses, also not looking/sounding like foreign spies (given Russia's history), being more accustomed to harsh climate etc. Also Russia is so vast that if one gets sent from one region to another, it can be like being in another country. You could fit the continental USA into the space between St. Petersburg and Petropavlovsk (Kamchatka) several times.

It wouldn't surprise me if they'd sent people from the Ukraine and other bits of the former USSR into Russia in better times, but it would be problematic to send Russian speakers from the Ukraine, Balts, Georgia and even Kazakhstan into there just now.

I know many Finnish people who have served their missions in Russia. Apparently they didn't have the same visa problems as Americans. I heard that the American missionaries came to the embassy in Finland to renew their visas after one year. It was one of those rare chances to travel outside your mission.

Finland has had a very odd relationship with Russia even during the Cold War. They were much more canny in dealing with Russia than Ukraine has been. Some would say too clever.