How to help suicidal folk?

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Niemand
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How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Niemand »

I have just had a call from a suicidal person. My phone - which has been funny all day - decided to go off during the call.. and the battery's going down. I don't know what to do about this. All I'm getting now his answering machine. It isn't the first tine I've had to field such a call (I have from other people). Since I couldn't back to him, I have texted him and even phoned our bishop for advice (the guy's a non-member)...

It really upsets me that he would even consider this, he is a great guy and everyone I know who knows him thinks so. He feels worthless which sickens me - he is actually mildly autistic, so he is a bit of a misfit.

I have not known the right things to say without sounding trite and corny. A Catholic I was with earlier was saying "it's a sin", "it's criminal" and I told him that stuff is not helpful to me at this time, let alone someone in that situation.

I have texted him and left a message on his answering machine... any advice appreciated. I've run into this situation before with people and will again. I am not a professional but I would appreciate advice.

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Iceberg
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Iceberg »

I’ve had an experience with this and it turned out ok...but I know how harrowing it is to go through. First off know you are doing your best and that you are not God and not expected to carry the responsibility of this. Do not take blame for anything that happens. Praying for you to know what is in your hands and what is not. I hope you find someone who can help.

762X545
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by 762X545 »

I served most of my life in the military. Mostly combat arms units. I've seen my handful of suicides. The things I've noticed is that people that are truly suicidal won't tell you that they are. They won't televise their feelings. They won't play the stupid games that people who are simply looking for attention do. Nope. First they withdraw. They isolate themselves. When in public they seems quiet. When they have finally decided on to snack on some buckshot they seem very content. Even happy. A calm happiness. Then one day BLAM! They blow their head off or take a ton of pills.
I would argue that anyone who is actively seeking help isn't even minutely close to offing themselves.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

762X545 wrote: March 5th, 2022, 5:44 pm I served most of my life in the military. Mostly combat arms units. I've seen my handful of suicides. The things I've noticed is that people that are truly suicidal won't tell you that they are. They won't televise their feelings. They won't play the stupid games that people who are simply looking for attention do. Nope. First they withdraw. They isolate themselves. When in public they seems quiet. When they have finally decided on to snack on some buckshot they seem very content. Even happy. A calm happiness. Then one day BLAM! They blow their head off or take a ton of pills.
I would argue that anyone who is actively seeking help isn't even minutely close to offing themselves.
That's not helpful to the plethora paid people, so they'll tell a different tale, while sending you the bill. :lol:

WikiUp
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by WikiUp »

Go knock on his door and stay there until the door opens.

Don't just leave some cookies and leave.

farmerchick
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by farmerchick »

Just listen and be attentive.....find out what the real problem is.....maybe he needs self help...maybe he needs a support group.....maybe he needs to worry less about himself and more about others.....maybe he needs a change of direction or therapy....maybe he's off his meds and needs to get back on...maybe he's self medicating and needs to stop......maybe he needs another perspective besides the one he has and you are uniquely able to help with that.....but you will never know unless you really listen...and btw everyone I know seems to be a misfit in some way or another....lol.....being a misfit is actually rather normal these days and the kids think it's cool.....so you really don't need to say much...most depressed people just need a friend to listen.....stay calm and steady with the listening...then you'll know what to say and when to say it...

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Niemand
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Niemand »

Update- I finally got my phone working and got to speak to the guy in question. I've been telling him to make some major lifestyle changes. He isn't an alcoholic, AFAIK, and he wasn't drunk when I spoke to him, but I have warned him drink is a depressant... and he knows I don't drink.

I have also tried to impress on hiM the importance of getting right with God.

He decided to go out of town for a couple of days, but that didn't get rid of his issues. I am going to have to have a sitdown with him some time. His elderly parents also seem to be part of the issue. Long story. He's repeated some of the things they've said to him in his past and they're actually pretty cold things to have said to a child... the kind of things that stick around into adulthood.

I get the impression, I've actually listened to what he has said in a way they never have.

JohnnyL
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by JohnnyL »

1. Stop it before it starts. DO NOT cut the umbilical cord until about 20 minutes after birth, and even better, until the placenta dies (stops pumping). https://www.peakstates.com/suicide.html

2. Especially for TRUE suiciders (not the depressed, show signs for months, talk about, etc.) in the few minutes they have when they have been triggered: Have them put their hand on their belly button and ask if *they* want to die, or if their *belly button* feels like it wants to die, etc. AFATK, this suicide is always from PTSD related to placental death (see #1), often triggered by other things that seem like they might be the causes. https://www.peakstates.com/suicide.html

3. Generally, not-so-true suiciders need healing using methods the Church is recently against and about which I can't talk about here. Basically they have all kinds of trauma that makes them feel lots of "_" or "self-__ (fill in with any negative emotion: hate, loathing, abuse, disgust, value, condemnation, disapproval, guilt, etc.)/ "not feeling __" (fill in with anything good: loved, worth, accepted, valued, connected, esteem, etc.). Here are the main ones: loss, unworthiness, out of control; lack of: approval, control, love, security, safety, support, connection/friends.

4. Trained responders (https://www.livingworks.net/areyouatrisk):
United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland
Samaritans: Call 116 123 for 24/7 support
childline: Call 0800 1111

United States
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: Call 1-800-273-TALK (8255) for 24-hour service
Veterans Crisis Line: Call 1-800-273-8255 and press 1, or text 838255

5. Suicide training: https://www.livingworks.net/

6. Provide love and hope. The Spirit can help.

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Robin Hood
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Robin Hood »

762X545 wrote: March 5th, 2022, 5:44 pm I served most of my life in the military. Mostly combat arms units. I've seen my handful of suicides. The things I've noticed is that people that are truly suicidal won't tell you that they are. They won't televise their feelings. They won't play the stupid games that people who are simply looking for attention do. Nope. First they withdraw. They isolate themselves. When in public they seems quiet. When they have finally decided on to snack on some buckshot they seem very content. Even happy. A calm happiness. Then one day BLAM! They blow their head off or take a ton of pills.
I would argue that anyone who is actively seeking help isn't even minutely close to offing themselves.
Totally agree.
I have had a couple of friends/colleagues who have killed themselves. Three in fact. And in no case did they ever give any indication they were considering suicide. They just did it.
Conversely, I had a good friend who was continually "attempting" suicide. He would take an overdose just before his wife came home so she would be there in time to call the ambulance etc. He did this a number of times. In the end his wife told him she wouldn't call an ambulance in future and she stuck to her word... so he called it himself! This was 25 years ago and he's still around.

Trucker
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Trucker »

762X545 wrote: March 5th, 2022, 5:44 pm I served most of my life in the military. Mostly combat arms units. I've seen my handful of suicides. The things I've noticed is that people that are truly suicidal won't tell you that they are. They won't televise their feelings. They won't play the stupid games that people who are simply looking for attention do. Nope. First they withdraw. They isolate themselves. When in public they seems quiet. When they have finally decided on to snack on some buckshot they seem very content. Even happy. A calm happiness. Then one day BLAM! They blow their head off or take a ton of pills.
I would argue that anyone who is actively seeking help isn't even minutely close to offing themselves.
This matches what I've seen.

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Niemand
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Niemand »

I don't agree. There are many people who do make multiple suicide attempts and eventually succeed.

In our neighbouring ward, there was a man who had a divorce, and talked of suicide, and did it. There was certainly some warning. His identical twin is still around, and tried to help him (as did I). He is heart broken by this. It doesn't help that he is still mistaken for his brother. I couldn't tell them apart in life a lot of the time.

A guy who threatened suicide multiple times in our ward (who used to attend, but was never baptised) moved to another place and drank himself to death over lockdown, because there was no support for him.

Thar's two people I know, involved in the church. I also know someone, who I've fallen out with who has made a couple of attempts. Ironically the medication they shove him on gives him a lot of suicidal ideation, i.e. thinking bout it and that is bad enough. It's not a good place to be. He has come close before. These attempts are serious, in the last case I know of, he only survived because his girlfriend, who he lives with came back at the right time. He had sustained major blood loss and had to have transfusions. (Don't get me wrong, I feel very sorry for her.) I don't believe he intended to be saved, because she was supposed to be out all day and he called no one. This guy has discussed it before, and has come close to succeeding. He's been shoved into the hospital since and given multiple ECT (yuck!) Unfortunately he has a very toxic lifestyle, he drinks a lot, speaks badly of others, has no faith and can be malicious. Despite that, he does have a couple of redeeming features, and i've tried to encourage those, but there are things with him which are fundamentally wrong he needs to change.

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Robin Hood
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Robin Hood »

Considering suicide is not a good place to be. I don't think many people seriously think about doing it. Not seriously.
Desiring to be out of this life and in the spirit world is not uncommon though, and not a problem unless it becomes an obsession.

A lot of people who threaten, or even "attempt" suicide are often just wanting attention or someone to solve their problems for them ie. a cry for help.

Ultimately suicide is the result of a mental illness. We are programmed to preserve our life at almost all costs. The "fight or flight" instinct. To genuinely seek to destroy ourselves is contrary to our self preservation instinct. Therefore, some kind of mental illness is required in order to overcome it.

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Niemand
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Niemand »

I'm not entirely on board with the "cry for help" thing. Even those who make multiple attempts, and pathetic attempts at that, can eventually succeed. The writer Sylvia Plath, wife of Ted Hughes, certainly falls into that category. Kurt Cobain of the band Nirvana may be another example, although some suggest Cobain was murdered (and I've heard some decent evidence which points that way. Suicidal people can be murder victims of course.)

The thing I think is awful is that some antidepressants CAUSE suicidal ideation. I think what happens in many cases is that people get the thoughts, take some action, but hesitate at the last moment. Taking your own life is a very big step, and at that point in time you will have both your survival instinct and your death wish fighting one another (within the spiritual realm as well). I know of some suicide attempts which have been blocked by mysterious forces, and pure flukes, and it is as if something has tried to stop them. Sometimes someone will be in an isolated spot and someone will stop them - when I say isolated, I mean the kind of place where they expect to be alone and unwatched when they make the attempt.

There are one or two people who are just a menace too. Michael Landon - the actor off Little House on the Prairie, Bonanza and Highway to Heaven - was scarred by a mother who would continually make such "attempts", but did them so people would find her including her young son. I do not think such people are as common as it's made out. There are certainly a number of people who are found and saved who have made serious attempts, which are only a matter of a few minutes either way. That's certainly the case with pill overdoses - you can be comatose for a while, but also remain unfound and die. I once woke up on a hospital ward with someone who had his stomach pumped from pills- no, I wasn't in there for a suicide attempt, but I had ended up unconscious (long story) and woke up in hospital... it was some experience waking up listening to that guy talking about what had happened. I wonder if he is still alive.

I get the impression in the case of my friend that his father has said some very harsh things to him, which hurt. I think his parents love him, but haven't nurtured him probably, and his father's comments made him feel like a write off. We shouldn't spoil our children, but we should be careful what we say to them when they are growing up. He's high functioning autistic, like your daughter, RH, but the difference is that while you have cared for her, I don't think his parents have really made enough effort to understand him. He is in work and had relationships, but he finds both tough, and his father told him he'd amount to nothing in his early teens. It was probably a throwaway comment but mud sticks. He's actually a talented rock musician and everyone I've introduced him to likes him... I've emphasised all this to him, and his importance to God.

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Robin Hood
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Robin Hood »

Niemand wrote: March 7th, 2022, 4:20 am I'm not entirely on board with the "cry for help" thing. Even those who make multiple attempts, and pathetic attempts at that, can eventually succeed. The writer Sylvia Plath, wife of Ted Hughes, certainly falls into that category. Kurt Cobain of the band Nirvana may be another example, although some suggest Cobain was murdered (and I've heard some decent evidence which points that way. Suicidal people can be murder victims of course.)

The thing I think is awful is that some antidepressants CAUSE suicidal ideation. I think what happens in many cases is that people get the thoughts, take some action, but hesitate at the last moment. Taking your own life is a very big step, and at that point in time you will have both your survival instinct and your death wish fighting one another (within the spiritual realm as well). I know of some suicide attempts which have been blocked by mysterious forces, and pure flukes, and it is as if something has tried to stop them. Sometimes someone will be in an isolated spot and someone will stop them - when I say isolated, I mean the kind of place where they expect to be alone and unwatched when they make the attempt.

There are one or two people who are just a menace too. Michael Landon - the actor off Little House on the Prairie, Bonanza and Highway to Heaven - was scarred by a mother who would continually make such "attempts", but did them so people would find her including her young son. I do not think such people are as common as it's made out. There are certainly a number of people who are found and saved who have made serious attempts, which are only a matter of a few minutes either way. That's certainly the case with pill overdoses - you can be comatose for a while, but also remain unfound and die. I once woke up on a hospital ward with someone who had his stomach pumped from pills- no, I wasn't in there for a suicide attempt, but I had ended up unconscious (long story) and woke up in hospital... it was some experience waking up listening to that guy talking about what had happened. I wonder if he is still alive.

I get the impression in the case of my friend that his father has said some very harsh things to him, which hurt. I think his parents love him, but haven't nurtured him probably, and his father's comments made him feel like a write off. We shouldn't spoil our children, but we should be careful what we say to them when they are growing up. He's high functioning autistic, like your daughter, RH, but the difference is that while you have cared for her, I don't think his parents have really made enough effort to understand him. He is in work and had relationships, but he finds both tough, and his father told him he'd amount to nothing in his early teens. It was probably a throwaway comment but mud sticks. He's actually a talented rock musician and everyone I've introduced him to likes him... I've emphasised all this to him, and his importance to God.
There is maybe something in what you say, but I believe many try to blame others for there problems in order to avoid making changes.
I remember when I was young my mother telling me that if she was ever in a position where my father and I were in mortal danger and she could only save one of us, she would save my father. She went on to say that she could always have another child.
As I became a parent I realised how warped this thinking was. For a while I let it bother me. How could she even think this, let alone tell me!
But, I just let it go. Why should I let her strange way of thinking affect me?
But some people stew on things.

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Niemand
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Niemand »

Robin Hood wrote: March 7th, 2022, 4:47 am There is maybe something in what you say, but I believe many try to blame others for there problems in order to avoid making changes.
I remember when I was young my mother telling me that if she was ever in a position where my father and I were in mortal danger and she could only save one of us, she would save my father. She went on to say that she could always have another child.
As I became a parent I realised how warped this thinking was. For a while I let it bother me. How could she even think this, let alone tell me!
But, I just let it go. Why should I let her strange way of thinking affect me?
But some people stew on things.
I believe at this point in time, I've actually been put in this guy's life to steer him away from such thinking. I haven't hesitated to condemn his father's statement and I have spoken to him about seeking God. His only religion right now is some garbage Transcendental Meditation mantra, which hasn't helped him much. Some people would back off and try not to do that. I don't know his father, so it is no loss to me to call things as they are.

I agree with you there, it is a harsh thing for your mother to say to you, and she shouldn't have. Traditional Scottish parenting is like that - the opposite of the little emperor type parenting now in fashion which is equally awful. A lot of children here had almost any type of praise withheld from them - this is ostensibly to stop them being spoilt, but I believe it results in a lot of the faults we see in our society. Lack of confidence, bitterness, depression, chippiness etc, probably doesn't help in relationships either. This is what he's dealing with. I myself struggle to believe any compliment which is made to me, and they feel strange. I've had to reprogram myself a bit.

I remember at one point my mother asked me which of them was my favourite parent, which I think is a dreadful question. I answered my father, which from her POV was the right answer, but I don't think I should have been asked that question to begin with.

I did get old enough to tell off my mother about one or two things before she died and clear the air. She went on and on for years about some things I'd broken back when I was three or four, right into my teens. One of them was an old clock or something like that. I told her this hurt me, and I was only a small child at the time. It was her job to protect those things from me at that age, since that's the kind of thing small children do. There is no malice intended - it's like when small children reach for boiling pots and end up getting hurt. They don't know what they're doing. Adults should always turn pot handles on a stove away from where children can reach them. I think my mother was a bit taken aback by this, but it gave her pause. Her telling me this hadn't helped me, which was her intention, it had just stressed me out. A stupid little thing on one level, but one which has an effect.

Anyway TLDR: any parents reading this, be careful what you say to small children. It can stick around. It's right to tell them off, wrong to tell them they're useless or pose dilemmas to them. When they do something good or right, compliment them for it.

FoundMyEden
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by FoundMyEden »

JohnnyL wrote: March 6th, 2022, 1:36 pm 1. Stop it before it starts. DO NOT cut the umbilical cord until about 20 minutes after birth, and even better, until the placenta dies (stops pumping). https://www.peakstates.com/suicide.html

2. Especially for TRUE suiciders (not the depressed, show signs for months, talk about, etc.) in the few minutes they have when they have been triggered: Have them put their hand on their belly button and ask if *they* want to die, or if their *belly button* feels like it wants to die, etc. AFATK, this suicide is always from PTSD related to placental death (see #1), often triggered by other things that seem like they might be the causes. https://www.peakstates.com/suicide.html

3. Generally, not-so-true suiciders need healing using methods the Church is recently against and about which I can't talk about here. Basically they have all kinds of trauma that makes them feel lots of "_" or "self-__ (fill in with any negative emotion: hate, loathing, abuse, disgust, value, condemnation, disapproval, guilt, etc.)/ "not feeling __" (fill in with anything good: loved, worth, accepted, valued, connected, esteem, etc.). Here are the main ones: loss, unworthiness, out of control; lack of: approval, control, love, security, safety, support, connection/friends.

4. Trained responders (https://www.livingworks.net/areyouatrisk):
United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland
Samaritans: Call 116 123 for 24/7 support
childline: Call 0800 1111

United States
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: Call 1-800-273-TALK (8255) for 24-hour service
Veterans Crisis Line: Call 1-800-273-8255 and press 1, or text 838255

5. Suicide training: https://www.livingworks.net/

6. Provide love and hope. The Spirit can help.
I had to beg to get my doctor to wait 2 minutes before cutting the cord on my last child. This is the first time I have heard of this kind of research leading to suicide and trauma. Very interesting.

JohnnyL
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by JohnnyL »

FoundMyEden wrote: March 8th, 2022, 2:17 pm
JohnnyL wrote: March 6th, 2022, 1:36 pm 1. Stop it before it starts. DO NOT cut the umbilical cord until about 20 minutes after birth, and even better, until the placenta dies (stops pumping). https://www.peakstates.com/suicide.html

2. Especially for TRUE suiciders (not the depressed, show signs for months, talk about, etc.) in the few minutes they have when they have been triggered: Have them put their hand on their belly button and ask if *they* want to die, or if their *belly button* feels like it wants to die, etc. AFATK, this suicide is always from PTSD related to placental death (see #1), often triggered by other things that seem like they might be the causes. https://www.peakstates.com/suicide.html

3. Generally, not-so-true suiciders need healing using methods the Church is recently against and about which I can't talk about here. Basically they have all kinds of trauma that makes them feel lots of "_" or "self-__ (fill in with any negative emotion: hate, loathing, abuse, disgust, value, condemnation, disapproval, guilt, etc.)/ "not feeling __" (fill in with anything good: loved, worth, accepted, valued, connected, esteem, etc.). Here are the main ones: loss, unworthiness, out of control; lack of: approval, control, love, security, safety, support, connection/friends.

4. Trained responders (https://www.livingworks.net/areyouatrisk):
United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland
Samaritans: Call 116 123 for 24/7 support
childline: Call 0800 1111

United States
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: Call 1-800-273-TALK (8255) for 24-hour service
Veterans Crisis Line: Call 1-800-273-8255 and press 1, or text 838255

5. Suicide training: https://www.livingworks.net/

6. Provide love and hope. The Spirit can help.
I had to beg to get my doctor to wait 2 minutes before cutting the cord on my last child. This is the first time I have heard of this kind of research leading to suicide and trauma. Very interesting.
The link to "lotus birth" in the article and searching for that on the internet used to bring up lots of interesting things; hopefully, they can still be found. It's best to discuss this ahead of time and make certain that every doctor and nurse involved in the birth knows you want it done this way; even if not, you can request it and expect it.

Funny thing is, most suicide organizations don't want to hear it, don't care to hear it, can't be bothered to hear it, etc.

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Niemand
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Niemand »

I think the trouble with the umbilical cord thing is that it ìs so hard to prove. These issues manifest often decades later.

Juliet
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Juliet »

For many, it's a trauma that is in the belly button area. Instructing the person with suicidal feelings to see if the pain is originating from that area can help. It may not be self evident at first.
Last edited by Juliet on March 8th, 2022, 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Juliet
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Juliet »

Niemand wrote: March 8th, 2022, 4:58 pm I think the trouble with the umbilical cord thing is that it ìs so hard to prove. These issues manifest often decades later.
That theory is from the Peak States Institute and he has indeed prooved it. He has used the standard scientific method in all of his research and work. Now whether a medical journal will publish it is an entirely different story. But he has self published his work in four different books.

Grant McFetrige also has a program where he trains others with his methods and he uses a pay for results program. So, a therapist certified with peak states institute methods will be able to help the suicidal person heal the issue or the person doesn't have to pay. The reason he uses this approach to therapy is because his methods actually do work. How many other therapists could successfully earn a living with a pay for results program?

Juliet
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Juliet »

Niemand wrote: March 6th, 2022, 2:14 am Update- I finally got my phone working and got to speak to the guy in question. I've been telling him to make some major lifestyle changes. He isn't an alcoholic, AFAIK, and he wasn't drunk when I spoke to him, but I have warned him drink is a depressant... and he knows I don't drink.

I have also tried to impress on hiM the importance of getting right with God.

He decided to go out of town for a couple of days, but that didn't get rid of his issues. I am going to have to have a sitdown with him some time. His elderly parents also seem to be part of the issue. Long story. He's repeated some of the things they've said to him in his past and they're actually pretty cold things to have said to a child... the kind of things that stick around into adulthood.

I get the impression, I've actually listened to what he has said in a way they never have.
I am so grateful you can be that for him.

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Thinker
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Thinker »

Niemand wrote: March 7th, 2022, 5:11 am
Robin Hood wrote: March 7th, 2022, 4:47 am There is maybe something in what you say, but I believe many try to blame others for there problems in order to avoid making changes.
I remember when I was young my mother telling me that if she was ever in a position where my father and I were in mortal danger and she could only save one of us, she would save my father. She went on to say that she could always have another child.
As I became a parent I realised how warped this thinking was. For a while I let it bother me. How could she even think this, let alone tell me!
But, I just let it go. Why should I let her strange way of thinking affect me?
But some people stew on things.
I believe at this point in time, I've actually been put in this guy's life to steer him away from such thinking. I haven't hesitated to condemn his father's statement and I have spoken to him about seeking God. His only religion right now is some garbage Transcendental Meditation mantra, which hasn't helped him much. Some people would back off and try not to do that. I don't know his father, so it is no loss to me to call things as they are.

I agree with you there, it is a harsh thing for your mother to say to you, and she shouldn't have. Traditional Scottish parenting is like that - the opposite of the little emperor type parenting now in fashion which is equally awful. A lot of children here had almost any type of praise withheld from them - this is ostensibly to stop them being spoilt, but I believe it results in a lot of the faults we see in our society. Lack of confidence, bitterness, depression, chippiness etc, probably doesn't help in relationships either. This is what he's dealing with. I myself struggle to believe any compliment which is made to me, and they feel strange. I've had to reprogram myself a bit.

I remember at one point my mother asked me which of them was my favourite parent, which I think is a dreadful question. I answered my father, which from her POV was the right answer, but I don't think I should have been asked that question to begin with.

I did get old enough to tell off my mother about one or two things before she died and clear the air. She went on and on for years about some things I'd broken back when I was three or four, right into my teens. One of them was an old clock or something like that. I told her this hurt me, and I was only a small child at the time. It was her job to protect those things from me at that age, since that's the kind of thing small children do. There is no malice intended - it's like when small children reach for boiling pots and end up getting hurt. They don't know what they're doing. Adults should always turn pot handles on a stove away from where children can reach them. I think my mother was a bit taken aback by this, but it gave her pause. Her telling me this hadn't helped me, which was her intention, it had just stressed me out. A stupid little thing on one level, but one which has an effect.

Anyway TLDR: any parents reading this, be careful what you say to small children. It can stick around. It's right to tell them off, wrong to tell them they're useless or pose dilemmas to them. When they do something good or right, compliment them for it.
You seem empathic - a precious gift to others. And maybe your wisdom is from “healed pain.”

Good advice for parents. I think it’s good to praise specific behavior - Eg. “You fed the dog without being told. That shows responsibility & I appreciate that.” To avoid spoiling children - & to simultaneously avoid power struggles - letting kids experience logical consequences (when safe) helps. If they feel loved, & if we empathize with their difficulty in consequences - then they don’t take out their frustrations out on us, but rather ideally learn. Of course easier said than done.

I can relate with your friend whose parents still say mean things. “They know not what they do” often - and to forgive may mean boundaries. It took me many years to discover depression I struggled with was not ALL my fault - but was partly others around me putting me down (“depressing” me).

And re: suicidal signs or calls for help - I think they’re there - but subtle.

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Niemand
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Niemand »

Thinker wrote: March 9th, 2022, 12:14 pm
Niemand wrote: March 7th, 2022, 5:11 am
Robin Hood wrote: March 7th, 2022, 4:47 am There is maybe something in what you say, but I believe many try to blame others for there problems in order to avoid making changes.
I remember when I was young my mother telling me that if she was ever in a position where my father and I were in mortal danger and she could only save one of us, she would save my father. She went on to say that she could always have another child.
As I became a parent I realised how warped this thinking was. For a while I let it bother me. How could she even think this, let alone tell me!
But, I just let it go. Why should I let her strange way of thinking affect me?
But some people stew on things.
I believe at this point in time, I've actually been put in this guy's life to steer him away from such thinking. I haven't hesitated to condemn his father's statement and I have spoken to him about seeking God. His only religion right now is some garbage Transcendental Meditation mantra, which hasn't helped him much. Some people would back off and try not to do that. I don't know his father, so it is no loss to me to call things as they are.

I agree with you there, it is a harsh thing for your mother to say to you, and she shouldn't have. Traditional Scottish parenting is like that - the opposite of the little emperor type parenting now in fashion which is equally awful. A lot of children here had almost any type of praise withheld from them - this is ostensibly to stop them being spoilt, but I believe it results in a lot of the faults we see in our society. Lack of confidence, bitterness, depression, chippiness etc, probably doesn't help in relationships either. This is what he's dealing with. I myself struggle to believe any compliment which is made to me, and they feel strange. I've had to reprogram myself a bit.

I remember at one point my mother asked me which of them was my favourite parent, which I think is a dreadful question. I answered my father, which from her POV was the right answer, but I don't think I should have been asked that question to begin with.

I did get old enough to tell off my mother about one or two things before she died and clear the air. She went on and on for years about some things I'd broken back when I was three or four, right into my teens. One of them was an old clock or something like that. I told her this hurt me, and I was only a small child at the time. It was her job to protect those things from me at that age, since that's the kind of thing small children do. There is no malice intended - it's like when small children reach for boiling pots and end up getting hurt. They don't know what they're doing. Adults should always turn pot handles on a stove away from where children can reach them. I think my mother was a bit taken aback by this, but it gave her pause. Her telling me this hadn't helped me, which was her intention, it had just stressed me out. A stupid little thing on one level, but one which has an effect.

Anyway TLDR: any parents reading this, be careful what you say to small children. It can stick around. It's right to tell them off, wrong to tell them they're useless or pose dilemmas to them. When they do something good or right, compliment them for it.
You seem empathic - a precious gift to others. And maybe your wisdom is from “healed pain.”

Good advice for parents. I think it’s good to praise specific behavior - Eg. “You fed the dog without being told. That shows responsibility & I appreciate that.” To avoid spoiling children - & to simultaneously avoid power struggles - letting kids experience logical consequences (when safe) helps. If they feel loved, & if we empathize with their difficulty in consequences - then they don’t take out their frustrations out on us, but rather ideally learn. Of course easier said than done.

I can relate with your friend whose parents still say mean things. “They know not what they do” often - and to forgive may mean boundaries. It took me many years to discover depression I struggled with was not ALL my fault - but was partly others around me putting me down (“depressing” me).

And re: suicidal signs or calls for help - I think they’re there - but subtle.
Thank you I'm flattered, but I'm actually pretty bad with people and could probably start a fight in an empty room. However, it upsets me when I see good people in a bad place. I should probably think the same about bad people in a bad place but I do pray for them.

For me, my discovery was anxiety. I had known anxiety all my life, but I had known it as "worry" and never connected it with anxiety as such. "Worry" was a misleading term, because I think it led me to believe that the anxiety had a focus, i.e. I was worried about something and that wasn't always the case. I found alcohol, even in small amounts was giving me anxiety and depression and I have told my friend that he needs to stay away from it.

Someone talking about childhood memories used a word I liked - "magnetised". Why are certain memories "magnetised", i.e. they stick to us and we remember them whereas others are not? In childhood a lot of things are "magnetised" and that is why they are dangerous. Nowadays, I can face a torrent of abuse, and sometimes I can just walk away (not always though!!!) Childraising is a bit of a mystery to me - i.e. how you can discipline your kids without screwing them up, because sometimes they will do things wrong. It's the balance between teaching them not to want to do something bad and teaching them to hate themselves. I guess the balance is love - your children must know what you do is out of good intentions.

My parents made some bad choices. I believe they loved me, but they did some things I don't think I could do if I ever have any of my own. Long story.

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Thinker
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Thinker »

Niemand wrote: March 9th, 2022, 4:30 pm
Thinker wrote: March 9th, 2022, 12:14 pm You seem empathic - a precious gift to others. And maybe your wisdom is from “healed pain.”

Good advice for parents. I think it’s good to praise specific behavior - Eg. “You fed the dog without being told. That shows responsibility & I appreciate that.” To avoid spoiling children - & to simultaneously avoid power struggles - letting kids experience logical consequences (when safe) helps. If they feel loved, & if we empathize with their difficulty in consequences - then they don’t take out their frustrations out on us, but rather ideally learn. Of course easier said than done.

I can relate with your friend whose parents still say mean things. “They know not what they do” often - and to forgive may mean boundaries. It took me many years to discover depression I struggled with was not ALL my fault - but was partly others around me putting me down (“depressing” me).

And re: suicidal signs or calls for help - I think they’re there - but subtle.
Thank you I'm flattered, but I'm actually pretty bad with people and could probably start a fight in an empty room. However, it upsets me when I see good people in a bad place. I should probably think the same about bad people in a bad place but I do pray for them.

For me, my discovery was anxiety. I had known anxiety all my life, but I had known it as "worry" and never connected it with anxiety as such. "Worry" was a misleading term, because I think it led me to believe that the anxiety had a focus, i.e. I was worried about something and that wasn't always the case. I found alcohol, even in small amounts was giving me anxiety and depression and I have told my friend that he needs to stay away from it.

Someone talking about childhood memories used a word I liked - "magnetised". Why are certain memories "magnetised", i.e. they stick to us and we remember them whereas others are not? In childhood a lot of things are "magnetised" and that is why they are dangerous. Nowadays, I can face a torrent of abuse, and sometimes I can just walk away (not always though!!!) Childraising is a bit of a mystery to me - i.e. how you can discipline your kids without screwing them up, because sometimes they will do things wrong. It's the balance between teaching them not to want to do something bad and teaching them to hate themselves. I guess the balance is love - your children must know what you do is out of good intentions.

My parents made some bad choices. I believe they loved me, but they did some things I don't think I could do if I ever have any of my own. Long story.
I could also “start a fight in an empty room.” :lol: Funny way of putting that. Humor helps - a life savor. Really, aren’t most of us our worst enemies? We do intimately know every weakness & flaw - that nobody else knows. It’s easy to see disparity in comparisons since we can’t see all the flaws within others. Though I think it’s true the more you get to know your own issues, the easier it is to spot it in others. And “what imperfection hates most is imperfection.”

It seems that certain childhood experiences stand out because our spirits &/or subconscious recognizes them to be kind of symbolic or indicative of important life lessons to be learned at some point - even years later. I think it’s worth exploring these - not in an obsessive way, but like an investigator to understand the mental reasoning for anxiety etc.

Personally, I have found journaling, sometimes verbally venting (even if it comes out bad at first) helps me sort out my thoughts & feelings & has been incredibly healing. Art and music also help me process emotions. Do you do anything like that?

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Niemand
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Re: How to help suicidal folk?

Post by Niemand »

Thinker wrote: March 10th, 2022, 6:48 am Personally, I have found journaling, sometimes verbally venting (even if it comes out bad at first) helps me sort out my thoughts & feelings & has been incredibly healing. Do you do anything like that?
I don't keep a diary, because my entries are too irregular, but I do reuse real life material in creative writing. I have had some of it published in magazines you've never heard of!

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