LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **March 4th, 2022, 10:55 pm**

So I just got wind that E. Holland is coming down to Las Vegas tomorrow for a special training session with only Stake Presidents, Bishops, EQ Presidents and Relief Society Presidents.

No counselors or organizational secretaries invited.

There are seventeen stakes, two missions, and one temple here in southern Nevada

Wondering what “training” will occur...??

I do know, church attendance is way low, compared to two years ago.

Some kind of damage control I expect.

We’ll hear soon enough...

Posted: **March 4th, 2022, 11:24 pm**

hopefully someone can return and report

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 5:51 am**

If they were prophets they would have known having church inconsistently with dumb rules for two years would drive membership down. I thought they “knew” of things to come.
I knew in 2020 the hyper paranoia would effect membership negatively. Common sense. They don’t even possess that.

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 6:06 am**

These trainings are quite normal.

TBH, it is a way to corral the mentality of the obedient. You don't get into those positions without being church broke to some degree.

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 6:20 am**

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 5:51 am If they were prophets they would have known having church inconsistently with dumb rules for two years would drive membership down. I thought they “knew” of things to come.
I knew in 2020 the hyper paranoia would effect membership negatively. Common sense. They don’t even possess that.

I'm quite confident they know exactly what they are doing.

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 6:26 am**

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 6:20 am
Mamabear wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 5:51 am If they were prophets they would have known having church inconsistently with dumb rules for two years would drive membership down. I thought they “knew” of things to come.
I knew in 2020 the hyper paranoia would effect membership negatively. Common sense. They don’t even possess that.
I'm quite confident they know exactly what they are doing.

I don’t know, do you think they would do a self purge? They seem to have driven away some liberals too who are afraid of the plague…
I’ve seen people locally that are too scared to come back. One family with several children hasn’t gone in public for 2 years now. No school, no friends, no dinners, visitors, no stores.

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 6:49 am**

I went to one of these trainings a few years ago. In fact, I think we were the very first area priesthood training that women leaders were included.

Honestly, it was a very memorable, spiritually uplifting experience because so much of it was unscripted. It was over 4 hours and about half ended up being QA time with an Apostle. I don’t think we get enough of that in the church; witnessing an apostle speak freely as the spirit directs.

We were told multiple times that we cannot save people on borrowed light. Mathew 25 was emphasized repeatedly. The training was to get prepared to witness many without sufficient oil and those with oil unwilling to leave loved ones behind.

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 8:04 am**

Maroriginal1 wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 6:49 am I went to one of these trainings a few years ago. In fact, I think we were the very first area priesthood training that women leaders were included.

Honestly, it was a very memorable, spiritually uplifting experience because so much of it was unscripted. It was over 4 hours and about half ended up being QA time with an Apostle. I don’t think we get enough of that in the church; witnessing an apostle speak freely as the spirit directs.

We were told multiple times that we cannot save people on borrowed light. Mathew 25 was emphasized repeatedly. The training was to get prepared to witness many without sufficient oil and those with oil unwilling to leave loved ones behind.

What do you think was meant by leaving loved ones behind? .....spiritually, physically.....maybe both?

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 8:13 am**

Maroriginal1 wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 6:49 am I went to one of these trainings a few years ago. In fact, I think we were the very first area priesthood training that women leaders were included.

Honestly, it was a very memorable, spiritually uplifting experience because so much of it was unscripted. It was over 4 hours and about half ended up being QA time with an Apostle. I don’t think we get enough of that in the church; witnessing an apostle speak freely as the spirit directs.

We were told multiple times that we cannot save people on borrowed light. Mathew 25 was emphasized repeatedly. The training was to get prepared to witness many without sufficient oil and those with oil unwilling to leave loved ones behind.

It may very well be as you described. (I hope so).
However, why is that kind of meeting reserved for the elite?

Joseph Smith would have “meadow meetings” for all who could come. Hours at a time.

Yet here we are... not getting the best that could be offered....

I hope the leadership invited do get a spiritual experience. I hope they see personal reason to repent of what is holding themselves back.

I hope they are so uplifted, they come back and feed us sheep.

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 8:26 am**

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 8:13 am
Maroriginal1 wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 6:49 am I went to one of these trainings a few years ago. In fact, I think we were the very first area priesthood training that women leaders were included.

Honestly, it was a very memorable, spiritually uplifting experience because so much of it was unscripted. It was over 4 hours and about half ended up being QA time with an Apostle. I don’t think we get enough of that in the church; witnessing an apostle speak freely as the spirit directs.

We were told multiple times that we cannot save people on borrowed light. Mathew 25 was emphasized repeatedly. The training was to get prepared to witness many without sufficient oil and those with oil unwilling to leave loved ones behind.

It may very well be as you described. (I hope so).
However, why is that kind of meeting reserved for the elite?

Joseph Smith would have “meadow meetings” for all who could come. Hours at a time.

Yet here we are... not getting the best that could be offered....

I hope the leadership invited do get a spiritual experience. I hope they see personal reason to repent of what is holding themselves back.

I hope they are so uplifted, they come back and feed us sheep.

Yeah, why don't they have meetings, maybe twice a year, where the GAs speak to all of the members of the church for hours and hours? Or maybe the GAs could travel and visit the stakes of Zion and speak at various meetings over a weekend?

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 8:39 am**

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 6:26 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 6:20 am
Mamabear wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 5:51 am If they were prophets they would have known having church inconsistently with dumb rules for two years would drive membership down. I thought they “knew” of things to come.
I knew in 2020 the hyper paranoia would effect membership negatively. Common sense. They don’t even possess that.
I'm quite confident they know exactly what they are doing.
I don’t know, do you think they would do a self purge? They seem to have driven away some liberals too who are afraid of the plague…
I’ve seen people locally that are too scared to come back. One family with several children hasn’t gone in public for 2 years now. No school, no friends, no dinners, visitors, no stores.

Yes, I believe they would. The dogma they are pushing right now is to preserve the most obedient, the most controlled, the most submissive. They don't want people who ask questions or challenge authority.

Oh, and your neighbors... they will be the first to go when times get really tough. They will follow along with any narrative they are told to follow.

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 10:19 am**

I agree that it’s easily seen as elite vs not for leaders having special meetings in the church. But in any organization you have to have a disbursement of trained leadership. I would like to see more connection of apostles with members. I can’t comment why that doesn’t happen more. But I respect the people that put in a lot of time and are asked to go to these unique meetings. I in no way brag about it. It was just my season of life to attend, and it helped me take information back to my ward and direct our needs at the time.

As for the comment of leaving people behind, I believe it was meant both spiritual and physical (not a physical call out). More a warning that God is starting to sift. We cannot give our oil away and love somebody else into exaltation. Part of the test we have includes separations. We know there are a division of kingdoms coming. Half the virgins will be unprepared. These will be people we know and care about. Will we be willing to sacrifice the separation from them to follow the invitation of Christ?

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 11:38 am**

It is so obvious with covid illegal medical experimentation coercion propaganda & censoring (including from the church) that we are under psychological warfare. Years ago, I’d never have imagined those most active “good standing” members would be most deceived - least “lamp oil.”

And even in the midst of that deception tries to turn things upside down, shift response-ability, gaslight…

“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” - Isaiah 5:20

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 11:47 am**

Maroriginal1 wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 6:49 am We were told multiple times that we cannot save people on borrowed light. Mathew 25 was emphasized repeatedly. The training was to get prepared to witness many without sufficient oil and those with oil unwilling to leave loved ones behind.

Could someone translate this for me please.

What does "without sufficient oil" mean?

And "those with oil unwilling to leave loved ones behind"?

I really would appreciate having it explained because from this perspective it sounds like a creepy euphemism for something that might be very nasty.

I'm hoping it isn't!

Edit - I DID read the explanation above but it doesn't really answer. How are the distinctions made and why does the allusiveness sound so creepy?

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 11:47 am**

These meetings are routine, and have been happening for over ten years. They are now expanded to include EQP and RSP, but counselors have never been invited. I've been to two: Oaks and Rasband, and Anderson and Schweizer. There is no special need being addressed; it's an opportunity for local leaders to be taught by them and ask questions.

In other words: one of these meetings taking place in a given metro area doesn't denote the Brethren "scrambling the fighters" and doing damage control. They happen all the time, and have for quite some time

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 12:41 pm**

NeveR wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 11:47 am
Maroriginal1 wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 6:49 am We were told multiple times that we cannot save people on borrowed light. Mathew 25 was emphasized repeatedly. The training was to get prepared to witness many without sufficient oil and those with oil unwilling to leave loved ones behind.
Could someone translate this for me please.

What does "without sufficient oil" mean?

And "those with oil unwilling to leave loved ones behind"?

I really would appreciate having it explained because from this perspective it sounds like a creepy euphemism for something that might be very nasty.

I'm hoping it isn't!

Edit - I DID read the explanation above but it doesn't really answer. How are the distinctions made and why does the allusiveness sound so creepy?

The 'oil' and 'sufficient oil' speak is referencing the parable of the 10 virgins, it's the idea that you have to have filled YOUR own oil lamp with oil YOU'VE received from the Lord. Nothing weird or creepy, you just have to put in the effort and work to 'Hear Him' for yourself....it won't be enough to just follow someone else and their oil lamp.

The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins

Matthew 25 wrote: “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

6 “And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom [a]is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 1:02 pm**

Its something i dont like or understand about mormon culture....a constant clamouring to get into the secrect circles.

Hold it over a neighbors head if you make it into a secret circle but they dont. Hold yourself up above others. Leaders telling the secret circles they are more special.

Then we wonder why Mormons don't have alot of love for each other, and barely any for nonmembers. Or why we talk polietly or take cookies but never help people in meaningful ways.

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 2:54 pm**

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 6:26 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 6:20 am
Mamabear wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 5:51 am If they were prophets they would have known having church inconsistently with dumb rules for two years would drive membership down. I thought they “knew” of things to come.
I knew in 2020 the hyper paranoia would effect membership negatively. Common sense. They don’t even possess that.
I'm quite confident they know exactly what they are doing.
I don’t know, do you think they would do a self purge? They seem to have driven away some liberals too who are afraid of the plague…
I’ve seen people locally that are too scared to come back. One family with several children hasn’t gone in public for 2 years now. No school, no friends, no dinners, visitors, no stores.

I know some people like that too. Sad.... Some people get released from a church calling for not wearing a mask, and some people get released from a church calling because they are afraid to get near other people. What a mess.

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 5:40 pm**

tribrac wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 1:02 pm Its something i dont like or understand about mormon culture....a constant clamouring to get into the secrect circles.

Hold it over a neighbors head if you make it into a secret circle but they dont. Hold yourself up above others. Leaders telling the secret circles they are more special.

Then we wonder why Mormons don't have alot of love for each other, and barely any for nonmembers. Or why we talk polietly or take cookies but never help people in meaningful ways.

Hmm… social classes

Posted: **March 5th, 2022, 6:23 pm**

Ok.... E. Holland spoke for 2-1/2 hours off the cuff. Our neighbor (and Stake President) said he gave them a lot to think about, but the overall message is to be kinder to people.

Posted: **March 6th, 2022, 4:03 pm**

More info from yesterday ...

E. Holland needed a cane to walk, and his security guards helped him out of his chair up to the podium, and guided him back to his chair after.

Turns out my Stake President (a doctor) was selected as E. Holland’s physician during the visit.

Evidently, in the last couple weeks leading up to yesterday, my doctor SP had to fill out a questionnaire , undergo a thorough back ground check, and a couple more hoops to be named as E. Holland’s emergency personal physician while here for yesterday’s meeting.

Posted: **March 6th, 2022, 4:12 pm**

JK4Woods wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 6:23 pm Ok.... E. Holland spoke for 2-1/2 hours off the cuff. Our neighbor (and Stake President) said he gave them a lot to think about, but the overall message is to be kinder to people.

I hope it’s a plea for people who are in leadership positions to lay off people with differing or opposing opinions than them…. when it comes to medical decisions like breathing and other so called effective things.

Posted: **March 6th, 2022, 6:53 pm**

tribrac wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 1:02 pm Its something i dont like or understand about mormon culture....a constant clamouring to get into the secrect circles.

Hold it over a neighbors head if you make it into a secret circle but they dont. Hold yourself up above others. Leaders telling the secret circles they are more special.

Then we wonder why Mormons don't have alot of love for each other, and barely any for nonmembers. Or why we talk polietly or take cookies but never help people in meaningful ways.

Some of this mentality might go back to the early "doctrine" of the law of adoption. Wilford Woodruff ended the practice, but the idea was that people had to be sealed to church leaders to recieve the highest glory in the celestial kingdom. The law of adoption caused all kinds of issues in the church with members trying to get adopted/sealed into prestiges family lines. Many tried to get sealed to prophets. It cause a lot of fighting within the church, especially among church leaders. There is an interesting paper written on the Law of Adoption, by Gordon Irving.

Posted: **March 6th, 2022, 7:03 pm**

tribrac wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 1:02 pm Its something i dont like or understand about mormon culture....a constant clamouring to get into the secrect circles.

Hold it over a neighbors head if you make it into a secret circle but they dont. Hold yourself up above others. Leaders telling the secret circles they are more special.

Then we wonder why Mormons don't have alot of love for each other, and barely any for nonmembers. Or why we talk polietly or take cookies but never help people in meaningful ways.

So true. This reminds me of the “second anointing” that takes place for special couples in temples. Another secret society for the elite leaders who think they are above the rest of the people. This counterfeit “ordinance” is a mockery of the sealing of the Spirit of promise between God and man.

Posted: **March 6th, 2022, 11:31 pm**

Mamabear wrote: ↑March 6th, 2022, 7:03 pm
tribrac wrote: ↑March 5th, 2022, 1:02 pm Its something i dont like or understand about mormon culture....a constant clamouring to get into the secrect circles.

Hold it over a neighbors head if you make it into a secret circle but they dont. Hold yourself up above others. Leaders telling the secret circles they are more special.

Then we wonder why Mormons don't have alot of love for each other, and barely any for nonmembers. Or why we talk polietly or take cookies but never help people in meaningful ways.
So true. This reminds me of the “second anointing” that takes place for special couples in temples. Another secret society for the elite leaders who think they are above the rest of the people. This counterfeit “ordinance” is a mockery of the sealing of the Spirit of promise between God and man.

Pardon my ignorance. What is the second anointing?

LDS Freedom Forum

Damage Control...??

Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??

Re: Damage Control...??