The Russian side of the story

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mudflap
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The Russian side of the story

Post by mudflap »

I've watched with amazement over the last couple years and especially the last few weeks as America has gone from "it's a free country" to "you're a traitor" if you don't support whatever the mobocracy is supporting at moment x - be it "loving your neighbor by wearing a mask / getting jabbed" to "Defund the Police - - wait - - I mean "Fund the police" to "Believe Women - - wait - not THOSE women" to "Ukraine is 100% flower-people who dance."

It's imperative to understand both sides of any story. Listening to the other side of the story has never implied (until the last few years) you were pro-anything. It simply meant you had an open mind. You can easily detect who the propagandists are: they insist on posting only one side of the story. They claim only their sources are legitimate. They tear down or refuse to acknowledge any information that contradicts their view. This type of close-mindedness was once reserved for communists. We were told as kids that Russians couldn't say anything bad about their government or use more than one square of toilet paper or they would disappear in the middle of the night. Maybe that's still true...

But my, how the tables have turned: WE are now the ones not allowed to say anything bad about our government at the risk of being deplatformed, fired from our jobs, having our bank accounts frozen, i.e. "disappeared". You can only attend approved protests. We got played - we now have Commies among US promoting Satan's plan of power and control - power over your livelihood, and control over your freedom of speech. It's unAmerican. It goes against the Bill of Rights and our God-given rights. It's not promoting freedom when you can't even acknowledge the right of the other side to disagree with you.

"Oh no! Mudflap is a Russian Agent!" no. mudflap understands that you can't find the truth if you only listen to one side of the propaganda. Both sides lie because both sides have an agenda.

I've blocked the US Government Propagandist (Sarah). Some might say, "But - freedom of speech!" Sure. fine. Listen to Commies if you want. I've thoughtfully considered the input, and rejected most of it. I've heard enough. If you want to hear both sides of the story, you can't listen to both them at the same time. When the commie talking points are being spouted from every news media outlet 24x7 - Fox and otherwise - it's not like you miss it. Actually, you can't NOT listen. So, I carved out a little "freedom of speech zone" here with this thread where you can post all the "Russian propaganda" and we can all thoughtfully evaluate it without the input of "Afghan Loser and WhiteGenocide Milley", Drunk Nancy, "TrumpZombie Romney", or "Empty Gas Tanks Joe" spewing talking points.

Here's what the Russians are saying:

Image

wait - Joe Biden and all those blue/yellow flag facebook folks are Nazi supporters?
In 2016, Facebook first designated the Azov regiment a “dangerous organisation”.

Under the company’s Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy, Azov was banned from its platforms in 2019. The group was placed under Facebook’s Tier 1 designation, which includes groups such as the Ku Klux Klan and ISIL (ISIS). Users engaging in praise, support or representation of Tier 1 groups are also banned.

However, on February 24, the day Russia launched its invasion, Facebook reversed its ban, saying it would allow praise for Azov.

“For the time being, we are making a narrow exception for praise of the Azov regiment strictly in the context of defending Ukraine, or in their role as part of the Ukraine national guard,” a spokesperson from Facebook’s parent company, Meta, told Business Insider.

“But we are continuing to ban all hate speech, hate symbolism, praise of violence, generic praise, support, or representation of the Azov regiment, and any other content that violates our community standards,” it added.

~ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... v-regiment

Use your God-given intellect and inspiration to figure out the truth. :)

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Sarah
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Posts: 6705

Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by Sarah »

mudflap wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 8:37 am I've watched with amazement over the last couple years and especially the last few weeks as America has gone from "it's a free country" to "you're a traitor" if you don't support whatever the mobocracy is supporting at moment x - be it "loving your neighbor by wearing a mask / getting jabbed" to "Defund the Police - - wait - - I mean "Fund the police" to "Believe Women - - wait - not THOSE women" to "Ukraine is 100% flower-people who dance."

It's imperative to understand both sides of any story. Listening to the other side of the story has never implied (until the last few years) you were pro-anything. It simply meant you had an open mind. You can easily detect who the propagandists are: they insist on posting only one side of the story. They claim only their sources are legitimate. They tear down or refuse to acknowledge any information that contradicts their view. This type of close-mindedness was once reserved for communists. We were told as kids that Russians couldn't say anything bad about their government or use more than one square of toilet paper or they would disappear in the middle of the night. Maybe that's still true...

But my, how the tables have turned: WE are now the ones not allowed to say anything bad about our government at the risk of being deplatformed, fired from our jobs, having our bank accounts frozen, i.e. "disappeared". You can only attend approved protests. We got played - we now have Commies among US promoting Satan's plan of power and control - power over your livelihood, and control over your freedom of speech. It's unAmerican. It goes against the Bill of Rights and our God-given rights. It's not promoting freedom when you can't even acknowledge the right of the other side to disagree with you.

"Oh no! Mudflap is a Russian Agent!" no. mudflap understands that you can't find the truth if you only listen to one side of the propaganda. Both sides lie because both sides have an agenda.

I've blocked the US Government Propagandist (Sarah). Some might say, "But - freedom of speech!" Sure. fine. Listen to Commies if you want. I've thoughtfully considered the input, and rejected most of it. I've heard enough. If you want to hear both sides of the story, you can't listen to both them at the same time. When the commie talking points are being spouted from every news media outlet 24x7 - Fox and otherwise - it's not like you miss it. Actually, you can't NOT listen. So, I carved out a little "freedom of speech zone" here with this thread where you can post all the "Russian propaganda" and we can all thoughtfully evaluate it without the input of "Afghan Loser and WhiteGenocide Milley", Drunk Nancy, "TrumpZombie Romney", or "Empty Gas Tanks Joe" spewing talking points.

Here's what the Russians are saying:

Image

wait - Joe Biden and all those blue/yellow flag facebook folks are Nazi supporters?
In 2016, Facebook first designated the Azov regiment a “dangerous organisation”.

Under the company’s Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy, Azov was banned from its platforms in 2019. The group was placed under Facebook’s Tier 1 designation, which includes groups such as the Ku Klux Klan and ISIL (ISIS). Users engaging in praise, support or representation of Tier 1 groups are also banned.

However, on February 24, the day Russia launched its invasion, Facebook reversed its ban, saying it would allow praise for Azov.

“For the time being, we are making a narrow exception for praise of the Azov regiment strictly in the context of defending Ukraine, or in their role as part of the Ukraine national guard,” a spokesperson from Facebook’s parent company, Meta, told Business Insider.

“But we are continuing to ban all hate speech, hate symbolism, praise of violence, generic praise, support, or representation of the Azov regiment, and any other content that violates our community standards,” it added.

~ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... v-regiment

Use your God-given intellect and inspiration to figure out the truth. :)
Not sure why you're so mad at me. I've never justified anything our government has done. My argument has always been that they are in bed with Putin and this is a false East West battle.

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BuriedTartaria
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Posts: 1904

Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by BuriedTartaria »

Yeah, funny how mainstream media was 100% lies and now they’re a trust worthy source on framing the Russia-Eukraine conflict
Last edited by BuriedTartaria on March 3rd, 2022, 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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NeveR
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Posts: 1252

Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by NeveR »

Sarah wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 9:26 am
mudflap wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 8:37 am I've watched with amazement over the last couple years and especially the last few weeks as America has gone from "it's a free country" to "you're a traitor" if you don't support whatever the mobocracy is supporting at moment x - be it "loving your neighbor by wearing a mask / getting jabbed" to "Defund the Police - - wait - - I mean "Fund the police" to "Believe Women - - wait - not THOSE women" to "Ukraine is 100% flower-people who dance."

It's imperative to understand both sides of any story. Listening to the other side of the story has never implied (until the last few years) you were pro-anything. It simply meant you had an open mind. You can easily detect who the propagandists are: they insist on posting only one side of the story. They claim only their sources are legitimate. They tear down or refuse to acknowledge any information that contradicts their view. This type of close-mindedness was once reserved for communists. We were told as kids that Russians couldn't say anything bad about their government or use more than one square of toilet paper or they would disappear in the middle of the night. Maybe that's still true...

But my, how the tables have turned: WE are now the ones not allowed to say anything bad about our government at the risk of being deplatformed, fired from our jobs, having our bank accounts frozen, i.e. "disappeared". You can only attend approved protests. We got played - we now have Commies among US promoting Satan's plan of power and control - power over your livelihood, and control over your freedom of speech. It's unAmerican. It goes against the Bill of Rights and our God-given rights. It's not promoting freedom when you can't even acknowledge the right of the other side to disagree with you.

"Oh no! Mudflap is a Russian Agent!" no. mudflap understands that you can't find the truth if you only listen to one side of the propaganda. Both sides lie because both sides have an agenda.

I've blocked the US Government Propagandist (Sarah). Some might say, "But - freedom of speech!" Sure. fine. Listen to Commies if you want. I've thoughtfully considered the input, and rejected most of it. I've heard enough. If you want to hear both sides of the story, you can't listen to both them at the same time. When the commie talking points are being spouted from every news media outlet 24x7 - Fox and otherwise - it's not like you miss it. Actually, you can't NOT listen. So, I carved out a little "freedom of speech zone" here with this thread where you can post all the "Russian propaganda" and we can all thoughtfully evaluate it without the input of "Afghan Loser and WhiteGenocide Milley", Drunk Nancy, "TrumpZombie Romney", or "Empty Gas Tanks Joe" spewing talking points.

Here's what the Russians are saying:

Image

wait - Joe Biden and all those blue/yellow flag facebook folks are Nazi supporters?
In 2016, Facebook first designated the Azov regiment a “dangerous organisation”.

Under the company’s Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy, Azov was banned from its platforms in 2019. The group was placed under Facebook’s Tier 1 designation, which includes groups such as the Ku Klux Klan and ISIL (ISIS). Users engaging in praise, support or representation of Tier 1 groups are also banned.

However, on February 24, the day Russia launched its invasion, Facebook reversed its ban, saying it would allow praise for Azov.

“For the time being, we are making a narrow exception for praise of the Azov regiment strictly in the context of defending Ukraine, or in their role as part of the Ukraine national guard,” a spokesperson from Facebook’s parent company, Meta, told Business Insider.

“But we are continuing to ban all hate speech, hate symbolism, praise of violence, generic praise, support, or representation of the Azov regiment, and any other content that violates our community standards,” it added.

~ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... v-regiment

Use your God-given intellect and inspiration to figure out the truth. :)
Not sure why you're so mad at me. I've never justified anything our government has done. My argument has always been that they are in bed with Putin and this is a false East West battle.
That's not really true. You say this is what you think but whenever you are discussing individual cases you always adhere 100% to the official US govt narrative and 100% refuse to believe anything from the other side.

Even when it's obvious our govt has been wrong and done illegal things you will claim it was all Russia's fault somehow.

You are totally and completely one-sided.

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mudflap
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Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by mudflap »

NeveR wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 10:36 am
Sarah wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 9:26 am
mudflap wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 8:37 am I've watched with amazement over the last couple years and especially the last few weeks as America has gone from "it's a free country" to "you're a traitor" if you don't support whatever the mobocracy is supporting at moment x - be it "loving your neighbor by wearing a mask / getting jabbed" to "Defund the Police - - wait - - I mean "Fund the police" to "Believe Women - - wait - not THOSE women" to "Ukraine is 100% flower-people who dance."

It's imperative to understand both sides of any story. Listening to the other side of the story has never implied (until the last few years) you were pro-anything. It simply meant you had an open mind. You can easily detect who the propagandists are: they insist on posting only one side of the story. They claim only their sources are legitimate. They tear down or refuse to acknowledge any information that contradicts their view. This type of close-mindedness was once reserved for communists. We were told as kids that Russians couldn't say anything bad about their government or use more than one square of toilet paper or they would disappear in the middle of the night. Maybe that's still true...

But my, how the tables have turned: WE are now the ones not allowed to say anything bad about our government at the risk of being deplatformed, fired from our jobs, having our bank accounts frozen, i.e. "disappeared". You can only attend approved protests. We got played - we now have Commies among US promoting Satan's plan of power and control - power over your livelihood, and control over your freedom of speech. It's unAmerican. It goes against the Bill of Rights and our God-given rights. It's not promoting freedom when you can't even acknowledge the right of the other side to disagree with you.

"Oh no! Mudflap is a Russian Agent!" no. mudflap understands that you can't find the truth if you only listen to one side of the propaganda. Both sides lie because both sides have an agenda.

I've blocked the US Government Propagandist (Sarah). Some might say, "But - freedom of speech!" Sure. fine. Listen to Commies if you want. I've thoughtfully considered the input, and rejected most of it. I've heard enough. If you want to hear both sides of the story, you can't listen to both them at the same time. When the commie talking points are being spouted from every news media outlet 24x7 - Fox and otherwise - it's not like you miss it. Actually, you can't NOT listen. So, I carved out a little "freedom of speech zone" here with this thread where you can post all the "Russian propaganda" and we can all thoughtfully evaluate it without the input of "Afghan Loser and WhiteGenocide Milley", Drunk Nancy, "TrumpZombie Romney", or "Empty Gas Tanks Joe" spewing talking points.

Here's what the Russians are saying:

Image

wait - Joe Biden and all those blue/yellow flag facebook folks are Nazi supporters?
In 2016, Facebook first designated the Azov regiment a “dangerous organisation”.

Under the company’s Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy, Azov was banned from its platforms in 2019. The group was placed under Facebook’s Tier 1 designation, which includes groups such as the Ku Klux Klan and ISIL (ISIS). Users engaging in praise, support or representation of Tier 1 groups are also banned.

However, on February 24, the day Russia launched its invasion, Facebook reversed its ban, saying it would allow praise for Azov.

“For the time being, we are making a narrow exception for praise of the Azov regiment strictly in the context of defending Ukraine, or in their role as part of the Ukraine national guard,” a spokesperson from Facebook’s parent company, Meta, told Business Insider.

“But we are continuing to ban all hate speech, hate symbolism, praise of violence, generic praise, support, or representation of the Azov regiment, and any other content that violates our community standards,” it added.

~ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... v-regiment

Use your God-given intellect and inspiration to figure out the truth. :)
Not sure why you're so mad at me. I've never justified anything our government has done. My argument has always been that they are in bed with Putin and this is a false East West battle.
That's not really true. You say this is what you think but whenever you are discussing individual cases you always adhere 100% to the official US govt narrative and 100% refuse to believe anything from the other side.

Even when it's obvious our govt has been wrong and done illegal things you will claim it was all Russia's fault somehow.

You are totally and completely one-sided.
NeverR, we can quibble over the virus, but I'm glad I unblocked you. :) Bigger fish to fry....

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Subcomandante
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Posts: 4411

Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by Subcomandante »

The story that should be out and about is that there are no real good guys in this conflict.

It is largely a distraction that is going on right now because the Western leaders were getting on the ropes about the resistance that many of their citizens were going through re the COVID restrictions.

There's a trucker convoy in the United States headed to Washington, but there's very little news of that on the main sources. Everyone is focused on Ukraine.

Niyr
captain of 100
Posts: 554

Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by Niyr »

I'd think it would be simple enough for our and country's militaries to be able to detect the launches to tell who is the one bombing civilians. And before you claim no one can trust governments, and you can't, there are plenty of individuals manning radars and other detection equipment that can't all be kept quiet, not to mention those Ukrainians who would refuse to launch on their own people.

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mudflap
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Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by mudflap »

Niyr wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 11:24 am I'd think it would be simple enough for our and country's militaries to be able to detect the launches to tell who is the one bombing civilians. And before you claim no one can trust governments, and you can't, there are plenty of individuals manning radars and other detection equipment that can't all be kept quiet, not to mention those Ukrainians who would refuse to launch on their own people.
I agree in principle. Haven't seen much of it in practice. Militaries, historically, are the best at propaganda, not truth.

Look at what happened to those servicemen / women when that f-14 crashed and they shared the video of it:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireSto ... h-82973867

folks had a hey-day claiming she crashed because she had a heart attack while trying to land, possibly as a reaction to a forced vaccination.

or this guy who was jailed for taking shots of the inside of a submarine: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -submarine , all while Hillary skated while storing classified documents on an illegal server.

so no, in practice, folks (besides Snowden or Assange) aren't going to do this.

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Durzan
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Posts: 3728
Location: Standing between the Light and the Darkness.

Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by Durzan »

Subcomandante wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 11:23 am The story that should be out and about is that there are no real good guys in this conflict.

It is largely a distraction that is going on right now because the Western leaders were getting on the ropes about the resistance that many of their citizens were going through re the COVID restrictions.

There's a trucker convoy in the United States headed to Washington, but there's very little news of that on the main sources. Everyone is focused on Ukraine.
Nah, the Russia Ukraine conflict has been brewing for decades at this point. Putin was gonna move sooner or later. Our media is just following the age old advice of "Never let a good tragedy go to waste."

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Sarah
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Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by Sarah »

NeveR wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 10:36 am
Sarah wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 9:26 am
mudflap wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 8:37 am I've watched with amazement over the last couple years and especially the last few weeks as America has gone from "it's a free country" to "you're a traitor" if you don't support whatever the mobocracy is supporting at moment x - be it "loving your neighbor by wearing a mask / getting jabbed" to "Defund the Police - - wait - - I mean "Fund the police" to "Believe Women - - wait - not THOSE women" to "Ukraine is 100% flower-people who dance."

It's imperative to understand both sides of any story. Listening to the other side of the story has never implied (until the last few years) you were pro-anything. It simply meant you had an open mind. You can easily detect who the propagandists are: they insist on posting only one side of the story. They claim only their sources are legitimate. They tear down or refuse to acknowledge any information that contradicts their view. This type of close-mindedness was once reserved for communists. We were told as kids that Russians couldn't say anything bad about their government or use more than one square of toilet paper or they would disappear in the middle of the night. Maybe that's still true...

But my, how the tables have turned: WE are now the ones not allowed to say anything bad about our government at the risk of being deplatformed, fired from our jobs, having our bank accounts frozen, i.e. "disappeared". You can only attend approved protests. We got played - we now have Commies among US promoting Satan's plan of power and control - power over your livelihood, and control over your freedom of speech. It's unAmerican. It goes against the Bill of Rights and our God-given rights. It's not promoting freedom when you can't even acknowledge the right of the other side to disagree with you.

"Oh no! Mudflap is a Russian Agent!" no. mudflap understands that you can't find the truth if you only listen to one side of the propaganda. Both sides lie because both sides have an agenda.

I've blocked the US Government Propagandist (Sarah). Some might say, "But - freedom of speech!" Sure. fine. Listen to Commies if you want. I've thoughtfully considered the input, and rejected most of it. I've heard enough. If you want to hear both sides of the story, you can't listen to both them at the same time. When the commie talking points are being spouted from every news media outlet 24x7 - Fox and otherwise - it's not like you miss it. Actually, you can't NOT listen. So, I carved out a little "freedom of speech zone" here with this thread where you can post all the "Russian propaganda" and we can all thoughtfully evaluate it without the input of "Afghan Loser and WhiteGenocide Milley", Drunk Nancy, "TrumpZombie Romney", or "Empty Gas Tanks Joe" spewing talking points.

Here's what the Russians are saying:

Image

wait - Joe Biden and all those blue/yellow flag facebook folks are Nazi supporters?
In 2016, Facebook first designated the Azov regiment a “dangerous organisation”.

Under the company’s Dangerous Individuals and Organizations policy, Azov was banned from its platforms in 2019. The group was placed under Facebook’s Tier 1 designation, which includes groups such as the Ku Klux Klan and ISIL (ISIS). Users engaging in praise, support or representation of Tier 1 groups are also banned.

However, on February 24, the day Russia launched its invasion, Facebook reversed its ban, saying it would allow praise for Azov.

“For the time being, we are making a narrow exception for praise of the Azov regiment strictly in the context of defending Ukraine, or in their role as part of the Ukraine national guard,” a spokesperson from Facebook’s parent company, Meta, told Business Insider.

“But we are continuing to ban all hate speech, hate symbolism, praise of violence, generic praise, support, or representation of the Azov regiment, and any other content that violates our community standards,” it added.

~ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... v-regiment

Use your God-given intellect and inspiration to figure out the truth. :)
Not sure why you're so mad at me. I've never justified anything our government has done. My argument has always been that they are in bed with Putin and this is a false East West battle.
That's not really true. You say this is what you think but whenever you are discussing individual cases you always adhere 100% to the official US govt narrative and 100% refuse to believe anything from the other side.

Even when it's obvious our govt has been wrong and done illegal things you will claim it was all Russia's fault somehow.

You are totally and completely one-sided.
Just because my point of view about Russia's guilt happens to be what our government is saying at the moment, doesn't mean that I support our US government and their actions.

I've explained why our government is now placed in the position of standing up to Russia. It's what Putin wants. It's what he and Xi have planned for. They want the West to be up in arms against Russia at this point because he wants the US drawn into a real war where Russian and Chinese forces can actually start destroying their military, and have a justification for doing so. They need the world to have a reason to enter a global conflict of East vs. West. When the US finally does enter into war mode, Putin will have secured his alliances, and set in place the measures needed to detach himself with the West. China of course saw this coming, so that when the cut-off from swift happened, and sanctions were declared, China says, we will provide you with what you need. You don't need swift, or the Western imports. We have your back!

So now that that is in place for the Russian economy to at least survive for the moment, they are ready to take on the US forces while helping Iran and hanging out with Assad in Syria with their two military bases there, ready to take on the US when they get involved in the Middle East.

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mudflap
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Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by mudflap »

China blames US for Ukraine war:
The following day, on Thursday, China's foreign ministry issued a scathing critique of NATO. Beijing echoed recent Kremlin comments, laying ultimate blame on NATO expansionism for the war in Ukraine and humanitarian crisis.

The foreign ministry's text even quoted prior US statesmen and officials, notably George Kennan...

"International media lately mentioned many times that George Kennan, former US ambassador to the Soviet Union, suggested to the US government in 1990s that expanding NATO up to Russia’s borders would be the most fateful error of American policy. Regrettably, the US government turned a deaf ear to this."

Further the PRC Foreign Ministry statement cited, "Thomas Friedman, a famous US expert on international relations, wrote in a recent article that ill-considered decision by the US to expand NATO has undermined the relations with Russia and the US government in early years deserves much of the blame. Tulsi Gabbard, former member of the US House of Representatives, said that the crisis could have been ended and the war easily avoided if President Biden had simply promised not to accept Ukraine’s becoming a member of NATO. But they chose not to do so."
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... kraine-war

Rubicon
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Posts: 1104

Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by Rubicon »

What is the evidence for the "Nazi threat" in Ukraine? This is one of Russia's main talking points, and it sounds bizarre and unhinged.

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The Red Pill
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Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by The Red Pill »

When George Soros, Klaus Schwab, WEF, UN, Biden, State Department, Silicon Valley, Intelligence Agencies and NATO....

Are ALL backing Ukraine....YOU BETTER ASK YOURSELF WHY?....and...you SHOULD BE worried.


https://rairfoundation.com/world-econom ... tin-video/

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Subcomandante
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Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by Subcomandante »

Rubicon wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 12:51 pm What is the evidence for the "Nazi threat" in Ukraine? This is one of Russia's main talking points, and it sounds bizarre and unhinged.
The principal source of this is the Azov battalion that became famous during the 2014 conflict and then was incorporated into UA's armed forces shortly thereafter. It serves as a type of foreign legion.

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Sarah
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Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by Sarah »

mudflap wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 12:46 pm China blames US for Ukraine war:
The following day, on Thursday, China's foreign ministry issued a scathing critique of NATO. Beijing echoed recent Kremlin comments, laying ultimate blame on NATO expansionism for the war in Ukraine and humanitarian crisis.

The foreign ministry's text even quoted prior US statesmen and officials, notably George Kennan...

"International media lately mentioned many times that George Kennan, former US ambassador to the Soviet Union, suggested to the US government in 1990s that expanding NATO up to Russia’s borders would be the most fateful error of American policy. Regrettably, the US government turned a deaf ear to this."

Further the PRC Foreign Ministry statement cited, "Thomas Friedman, a famous US expert on international relations, wrote in a recent article that ill-considered decision by the US to expand NATO has undermined the relations with Russia and the US government in early years deserves much of the blame. Tulsi Gabbard, former member of the US House of Representatives, said that the crisis could have been ended and the war easily avoided if President Biden had simply promised not to accept Ukraine’s becoming a member of NATO. But they chose not to do so."
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... kraine-war
No surprise that the biggest police state on the planet is siding with another police state.

China quotes Thomas Friedman, a New York Times columnist, who looks like he is taking Russia's side on this, but here are some of Friedman's recent quotes on a panel discussion he was on:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/02/opin ... putin.html
"I think the most important thing that we can do is make sure that Ukrainians who want to fight and are fighting for their own country have all the arms they need to do that...And what strikes me is Putin thought this was going to be a cakewalk, that he actually believed his own fantasy, that there are a bunch of Nazis running Ukraine, as soon as he came in the Ukrainian people would want them evicted, they would throw flowers, etc...He simply cannot do what he hoped to do: install a puppet and basically go home."

"Now I would suggest from the Ukrainian side, they’re also going to want some kind of payment out of this or some way to rebuild. Already massive damage has been done. So why might we get such an unpleasant compromise? Well, from the Ukrainian point of view, Russia can literally just destroy its biggest cities and infrastructures. It can do terrible damage...And getting someone to pay to rebuild that in the current global environment where no big power, other than Russia right now, wants to get involved in this kind of thing because all they win is a bill — there’s going to be a lot of incentive for Ukraine to do that."

"I would say the second most likely scenario, not very likely at all, it’s a long shot, is that several of Putin’s most senior military intelligence officials are, as we speak, at a water cooler somewhere saying to each other what they’re all thinking, which is, “What the heck? This guy — he’s off his rocker....and basically saying, we are going to have to have an intervention, not in Ukraine, but in the Kremlin with Dear Leader. I think that it’ll be very difficult. Putin has surrounded himself with multiple layers of security.
But a dimension of that is, it’s true the Russian state, its ability to suppress popular uprisings, is powerful. But you never know. When something gets going, if people lose their sense of fear, you just never know. As more body bags come home, you get Russian mothers out there. One thing we know for sure about Putin: He incessantly polls, like other dictators, because he knows how illegitimate he is. And he will be reading those polls.
The long shot scenario is, somebody steps in and takes him out and you get a different Russia. But the other is a dirty compromise. And the third is an endless war which would be just terrible."

"...could I just say one thing. I visited Ukraine going back to the 1990s when I was covering [Secretary of State James A. Baker] and today, and Taiwan the same. And both have changed in so many amazing ways since I was able to first visit in the late ’80s and early ’90s. There is only one thing that hasn’t changed for either of them, and that’s their geography.
Both of them are relatively small states living next to very powerful, much larger, and potentially dangerous neighbors. I support the Ukrainians in this fight 100 percent. But I do worry that we enter a phase where we’re ready to fight to the last Ukrainian, and singing the anthem, and that’s all wonderful. But at the end of the day, when you crush a country, or when a country gets crushed in a war and it spills out this many refugees — and I lived through this in Lebanon — putting it back together is really, really difficult."

"I think Biden’s done a good job of both rallying America and rallying the NATO alliance and the global world here. I think that’s been very important. And I’m sure he’ll benefit politically from that. But for me, Lulu, what drives everything is what happens on the ground in Ukraine. And if the Ukrainians can hold out in this hyper-connected moment, even just for another week or two, and continue to inflict casualties on the Russians, that’s going to be what drives everything and will open up all kinds of possibilities."

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mudflap
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Re: The Russian side of the story

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Rubicon wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 12:51 pm What is the evidence for the "Nazi threat" in Ukraine? This is one of Russia's main talking points, and it sounds bizarre and unhinged.

sure does, but here it is on AlJazeera - not a website I trust all the time, but they back up the story with quotes from facebook:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... v-regiment

I linked and quoted this in the first post on this thread. It proves that the left has no principles - only political expediency. However strange or bizarre this sounds: Russia is the principled party here - they've been against Nazi's since WWII. :) Joe Biden and the Dems (and most R's at this point) will sidle up to whoever has the most money - even Nazi's.

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Sarah
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Re: The Russian side of the story

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The Red Pill wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 1:00 pm When George Soros, Klaus Schwab, WEF, UN, Biden, State Department, Silicon Valley, Intelligence Agencies and NATO....

Are ALL backing Ukraine....YOU BETTER ASK YOURSELF WHY?....and...you SHOULD BE worried.


https://rairfoundation.com/world-econom ... tin-video/
It's not a hard answer. They either are compromised and are playing their part as controlled opposition in this East/West fight, or they are genuinely backing Ukraine, the obvious victim in this drama.

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Sarah
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Re: The Russian side of the story

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The nice thing about mudflap blocking me is that he can't see that I'm spamming this thread, right? :evil:

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mudflap
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Re: The Russian side of the story

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The Red Pill wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 1:00 pm When George Soros, Klaus Schwab, WEF, UN, Biden, State Department, Silicon Valley, Intelligence Agencies and NATO....

Are ALL backing Ukraine....YOU BETTER ASK YOURSELF WHY?....and...you SHOULD BE worried.


https://rairfoundation.com/world-econom ... tin-video/
Good, but she never answers her own question.

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mudflap
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Re: The Russian side of the story

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I like this article too: https://tomluongo.me/2022/03/02/opening ... s-ukraine/
This is an asymmetric war. There isn’t much farther the West can go financially.
They’ve seized Bank of Russia foreign assets, for pity’s sake. What other weapons do they really have in their arsenal which can threaten Russia with?

They have, in effect, executed their nuclear first strike against Russia. Once you’ve gone nuclear, where do you go next? Real nukes? Yes, that’s a possibility, sadly, given the people we’re talking about.

On the other hand, Russia has so far only committed the necessary troops to neutralize Ukraine. So, in this respect, big advantage Russia.

Facts on the ground are facts. Russia has taken territory it can maintain. By not targeting civilians or civilian infrastructure, Russia has put itself in a very good position to not face an insane #insurgency which the West can finance in the way that it has in past conflicts.
lots of good analysis, not much bias.

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NeveR
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Re: The Russian side of the story

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Rubicon wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 12:51 pm What is the evidence for the "Nazi threat" in Ukraine? This is one of Russia's main talking points, and it sounds bizarre and unhinged.
It sounds unhinged but is totally true. There is a tradition of Nazism in Ukraine going back to WW2.

In 2012 there were 38 NeoNazi MPs in the Ukrainian parliament.

The Ukraine National Guard also has several NeoNazi battalions. This is one of them, the infamous Azov Battalion...


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Rubicon
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Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by Rubicon »

mudflap wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 1:20 pm
Rubicon wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 12:51 pm What is the evidence for the "Nazi threat" in Ukraine? This is one of Russia's main talking points, and it sounds bizarre and unhinged.

sure does, but here it is on AlJazeera - not a website I trust all the time, but they back up the story with quotes from facebook:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... v-regiment

I linked and quoted this in the first post on this thread. It proves that the left has no principles - only political expediency. However strange or bizarre this sounds: Russia is the principled party here - they've been against Nazi's since WWII. :) Joe Biden and the Dems (and most R's at this point) will sidle up to whoever has the most money - even Nazi's.
Thanks! So, this military unit "estimated at around 900 people" is one of Russia's major pretexts for the invasion?


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Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by dreamtheater76 »

Subcomandante wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 11:23 am The story that should be out and about is that there are no real good guys in this conflict.

It is largely a distraction that is going on right now because the Western leaders were getting on the ropes about the resistance that many of their citizens were going through re the COVID restrictions.

There's a trucker convoy in the United States headed to Washington, but there's very little news of that on the main sources. Everyone is focused on Ukraine.
Maybe we should ALWAYS be focused on Christ. Now that would drive Satan and his Mainstream Media bananas.

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NeveR
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Re: The Russian side of the story

Post by NeveR »

Rubicon wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 1:59 pm
mudflap wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 1:20 pm
Rubicon wrote: March 3rd, 2022, 12:51 pm What is the evidence for the "Nazi threat" in Ukraine? This is one of Russia's main talking points, and it sounds bizarre and unhinged.

sure does, but here it is on AlJazeera - not a website I trust all the time, but they back up the story with quotes from facebook:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... v-regiment

I linked and quoted this in the first post on this thread. It proves that the left has no principles - only political expediency. However strange or bizarre this sounds: Russia is the principled party here - they've been against Nazi's since WWII. :) Joe Biden and the Dems (and most R's at this point) will sidle up to whoever has the most money - even Nazi's.
Thanks! So, this military unit "estimated at around 900 people" is one of Russia's major pretexts for the invasion?
It's more than that. There are several NeoNazi battalions and, as I said, a culture of Nazism in western Ukraine that goes back to WW2, when a Ukrainian called Stepan Bandera worked with the SS to exterminate Russians and Poles as well as Jews.

He's seen as a hero in western Ukraine - many statues erected to him.

In 2014 the US backed a coup by these new-Nazi elements which formed a new govt. The nazi influence continues even after electing a Jewish man as president.

I don't think this justifies an invasion but we need to be aware of it, and the threat of Ukraine joining NATO, if we want to try to understand the Russian position.

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