Differing View on the Ukraine/Russia Conflict

[Sarah]

George Soros "helped" the Ukrainian president come to power...

George Soros is CURRENTLY promoting support for Ukraine and it's president.

Do you really need to understand any more than this????

Just as the United States would NEVER allow China to install nuclear missiles in Tijuana...Putin CANNOT allow Ukraine to become part of NATO and do just the same on Russsia's border.

This ENTIRE war could have and should have been avoided....by Ukraine announcing that NATO is OFF the table.

Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process.

+1000!

Biden / Pelosi / Romney's kids aren't going to be the ones getting killed. The fact that we've gone from "no more wars" to "let's do a no-fly zone over Ukraine" in less than a month is a testament to the propaganda power of the Deep State that surely exists.

That bullet list of all the reasons Russia wants Ukraine that's been floating around - listing agricultural reasons and other nonsense - I think it's US Gov propaganda. a lot of people that don't study history fell for it. Since a lot of those folks are here on the forum, here's an image showing how well you've been played by your own government:



- you got played when we went off the gold standard
- you got played by sending all our manufacturing to China
- you got played about WMD's in Iraq
- you got played for 20 years in Afghanistan - they told you we were winning, and in 1 month, it all collapsed, the Taliban is back in power, and nobody got fired for failure or losing all those planes / helicopters / tanks / or weapons.
- you got played over Covid - and most of you got played over the vaxxine - even "the very elect" are deceived
- you are being played right now with Ukraine - It's astounding how many are beating the war drums.

Mormon 5:18:

But now, behold, they are led about by Satan, even as chaff is driven before the wind, or as a vessel is tossed about upon the waves, without sail or anchor, or without anything wherewith to steer her; and even as she is, so are they.

Please wake up.

Pro-Russia people need to wake up. That entire list you gave just proves that America is failing at everything it does. What is the ultimate goal of the deep state if they really are the bad guys?

Btw, Pelosi and Romney don't have children that work in Ukraine. It's part of the Russian/alt-right propaganda nonsense conservatives have been fed for the last two decades.

[The Red Pill]

George Soros "helped" the Ukrainian president come to power...

George Soros is CURRENTLY promoting support for Ukraine and it's president.

Do you really need to understand any more than this????

Just as the United States would NEVER allow China to install nuclear missiles in Tijuana...Putin CANNOT allow Ukraine to become part of NATO and do just the same on Russsia's border.

This ENTIRE war could have and should have been avoided....by Ukraine announcing that NATO is OFF the table.

Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process.

"Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process."

Zelenski is wittingly or unwittingly doing the will of Putin. Putin knows he has the power to fight for awhile in Ukraine with only a weak opposition to deal with, just like he knew in all the other places Putin has invaded. It's a way to draw out the strong freedom-loving fighters and put them down. He's trimming up the country of any opposition. Zelenski is sending the people into a trap.

Respectfully disagree.

You have to look at this from 40,000 feet. It's globalism verses nationalism. Globalism is working towards a one world government...Ether 8 stuff. That's why Soros is so involved. NATO is being used by the globalusts to accomplish their objectives. NATO promised they would never move east of Germany...how did that work out?

Everyone has made Putin the Bond villian...by design. Putin is a nationalist. China is aligned with the globalists. Any military leader worth their salt...would tell you that Putin CANNOT let Ukraine join NATO...strategically speaking. Zelenski even understands this, though he is putting on his freedom fighter Huck Fin act. The globalists want Putin gone.

NATO was/is the flashpoint. Putin is not a stupid man, he understands that a NATO member Ukraine would be the beginning of the end for Russia.

The Ukrainian president is a Soros globalist puppit...who could have avoided this nonsense.

[Artaxerxes]

George Soros "helped" the Ukrainian president come to power...

George Soros is CURRENTLY promoting support for Ukraine and it's president.

Do you really need to understand any more than this????

Just as the United States would NEVER allow China to install nuclear missiles in Tijuana...Putin CANNOT allow Ukraine to become part of NATO and do just the same on Russsia's border.

This ENTIRE war could have and should have been avoided....by Ukraine announcing that NATO is OFF the table.

Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process.

"Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process."

Zelenski is wittingly or unwittingly doing the will of Putin. Putin knows he has the power to fight for awhile in Ukraine with only a weak opposition to deal with, just like he knew in all the other places Putin has invaded. It's a way to draw out the strong freedom-loving fighters and put them down. He's trimming up the country of any opposition. Zelenski is sending the people into a trap.

Respectfully disagree.

You have to look at this from 40,000 feet. It's globalism verses nationalism. Globalism is working towards a one world government...Ether 8 stuff. That's why Soros is so involved. NATO is being used by the globalusts to accomplish their objectives. NATO promised they would never move east of Germany...how did that work out?

Everyone has made Putin the Bond villian...by design. Putin is a nationalist. China is aligned with the globalists. Any military leader worth their salt...would tell you that Putin CANNOT let Ukraine join NATO...strategically speaking. Zelenski even understands this, though he is putting on his freedom fighter Huck Fin act. The globalists want Putin gone.

NATO was/is the flashpoint. Putin is not a stupid man, he understands that a NATO member Ukraine would be the beginning of the end for Russia.

The Ukrainian president is a Soros globalist puppit...who could have avoided this nonsense.

Why would it be the end? They already share a border with four Nato countries (five if you count the US border with Russia). Why is Ukraine such an existential threat?

[Sarah]

George Soros "helped" the Ukrainian president come to power...

George Soros is CURRENTLY promoting support for Ukraine and it's president.

Do you really need to understand any more than this????

Just as the United States would NEVER allow China to install nuclear missiles in Tijuana...Putin CANNOT allow Ukraine to become part of NATO and do just the same on Russsia's border.

This ENTIRE war could have and should have been avoided....by Ukraine announcing that NATO is OFF the table.

Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process.

"Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process."

Zelenski is wittingly or unwittingly doing the will of Putin. Putin knows he has the power to fight for awhile in Ukraine with only a weak opposition to deal with, just like he knew in all the other places Putin has invaded. It's a way to draw out the strong freedom-loving fighters and put them down. He's trimming up the country of any opposition. Zelenski is sending the people into a trap.

Respectfully disagree.

You have to look at this from 40,000 feet. It's globalism verses nationalism. Globalism is working towards a one world government...Ether 8 stuff. That's why Soros is so involved. NATO is being used by the globalusts to accomplish their objectives. NATO promised they would never move east of Germany...how did that work out?

Everyone has made Putin the Bond villian...by design. Putin is a nationalist. China is aligned with the globalists. Any military leader worth their salt...would tell you that Putin CANNOT let Ukraine join NATO...strategically speaking. Zelenski even understands this, though he is putting on his freedom fighter Huck Fin act. The globalists want Putin gone.

NATO was/is the flashpoint. Putin is not a stupid man, he understands that a NATO member Ukraine would be the beginning of the end for Russia.

The Ukrainian president is a Soros globalist puppit...who could have avoided this nonsense.

This is the Russia/alt-right narrative that conservatives have heard ever since 9/11. Saying this is a war of globalists vs nationalists is like saying that this is a war between conservatives and liberals. Remember Trump, the so-called Nationalist, yet he's sending a force to oust Maduro? Ideology has nothing to do with it at the end of the day. This is about power and wealth. And these billionaires like Soros don't have a personal army. Power is in the military might of a country. It is in land wealth. There are over 2,700,000 billionaires in the world, (and not all in the West) so I don't know why Soros is supposedly so powerful. He is definitely a very generous liberal that likes liberal causes.

What has NATO done to flex any muscle since it's creation. Has it ever attacked Russia?

[ajax]

George Soros "helped" the Ukrainian president come to power...

George Soros is CURRENTLY promoting support for Ukraine and it's president.

Do you really need to understand any more than this????

Just as the United States would NEVER allow China to install nuclear missiles in Tijuana...Putin CANNOT allow Ukraine to become part of NATO and do just the same on Russsia's border.

This ENTIRE war could have and should have been avoided....by Ukraine announcing that NATO is OFF the table.

Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process.

"Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process."

Zelenski is wittingly or unwittingly doing the will of Putin. Putin knows he has the power to fight for awhile in Ukraine with only a weak opposition to deal with, just like he knew in all the other places Putin has invaded. It's a way to draw out the strong freedom-loving fighters and put them down. He's trimming up the country of any opposition. Zelenski is sending the people into a trap.

Respectfully disagree.

You have to look at this from 40,000 feet. It's globalism verses nationalism. Globalism is working towards a one world government...Ether 8 stuff. That's why Soros is so involved. NATO is being used by the globalusts to accomplish their objectives. NATO promised they would never move east of Germany...how did that work out?

Everyone has made Putin the Bond villian...by design. Putin is a nationalist. China is aligned with the globalists. Any military leader worth their salt...would tell you that Putin CANNOT let Ukraine join NATO...strategically speaking. Zelenski even understands this, though he is putting on his freedom fighter Huck Fin act. The globalists want Putin gone.

NATO was/is the flashpoint. Putin is not a stupid man, he understands that a NATO member Ukraine would be the beginning of the end for Russia.

The Ukrainian president is a Soros globalist puppit...who could have avoided this nonsense.

Why would it be the end? They already share a border with four Nato countries (five if you count the US border with Russia). Why is Ukraine such an existential threat?

Per Mearsheimer, most of those happened early in the game when Russia was too weak and in no position to do anything about it, though they voiced their opposition to it. Ukraine is the linchpin and Russia is now much more prepared.

[ajax]

What has NATO done to flex any muscle since it's creation. Has it ever attacked Russia?

You don't have to attack to be considered an existential threat. Major experts have warned about this for decades. This is reality power politics here. If NATO/US keeps pressing east, Russia is going to react, especially Ukraine which is unique to Russian history. And that's probably what the US wants, because the blame becomes easy, like Lincoln and FDR and the "first shots". They could care less about the Ukrainians. Like I've said before, they are now mere sacrificial lambs in the power politics chessboard.

[The Red Pill]

George Soros "helped" the Ukrainian president come to power...

George Soros is CURRENTLY promoting support for Ukraine and it's president.

Do you really need to understand any more than this????

Just as the United States would NEVER allow China to install nuclear missiles in Tijuana...Putin CANNOT allow Ukraine to become part of NATO and do just the same on Russsia's border.

This ENTIRE war could have and should have been avoided....by Ukraine announcing that NATO is OFF the table.

Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process.

"Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process."

Zelenski is wittingly or unwittingly doing the will of Putin. Putin knows he has the power to fight for awhile in Ukraine with only a weak opposition to deal with, just like he knew in all the other places Putin has invaded. It's a way to draw out the strong freedom-loving fighters and put them down. He's trimming up the country of any opposition. Zelenski is sending the people into a trap.

Respectfully disagree.

You have to look at this from 40,000 feet. It's globalism verses nationalism. Globalism is working towards a one world government...Ether 8 stuff. That's why Soros is so involved. NATO is being used by the globalusts to accomplish their objectives. NATO promised they would never move east of Germany...how did that work out?

Everyone has made Putin the Bond villian...by design. Putin is a nationalist. China is aligned with the globalists. Any military leader worth their salt...would tell you that Putin CANNOT let Ukraine join NATO...strategically speaking. Zelenski even understands this, though he is putting on his freedom fighter Huck Fin act. The globalists want Putin gone.

NATO was/is the flashpoint. Putin is not a stupid man, he understands that a NATO member Ukraine would be the beginning of the end for Russia.

The Ukrainian president is a Soros globalist puppit...who could have avoided this nonsense.

Why would it be the end? They already share a border with four Nato countries (five if you count the US border with Russia). Why is Ukraine such an existential threat?

Many military reasons....a massive one being...Control of Crimea gives Moscow continuing access to the naval base at Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet.

You keep forgetting that if Zelenski hadn't pushed NATO...we would all still be watching covid nonsense and not war footage.

This also diverts attention away from Biden's disastrous economy and the realization that the covid jabs are KILLING lots of people. Globalists love every minute of this.

[ajax]

The reality is that the US was in a unique position post USSR to really make strides for a peaceful world. NATO should have been disbanded. We shouldn't have pivoted towards the middle east. The neocons war machine pretty much blew it. Instead of reigning in what should have been reigned in, we only expanded and pivoted as we found ourselves to be the unipolar power. The temptation was too great, as well as the military industrial profits. How long can the US keep this up? Look to the dollar.

[ajax]

Mearsheimer spoke of our failed unipolar moment. The Great Delusion

[Sarah]

The reality is that the US was in a unique position post USSR to really make strides for a peaceful world. NATO should have been disbanded. We shouldn't have pivoted towards the middle east. The neocons war machine pretty much blew it. Instead of reigning in what should have been reigned in, we only expanded and pivoted as we found ourselves to be the unipolar power. The temptation was too great, as well as the military industrial profits. How long can the US keep this up? Look to the dollar.

Disbanding NATO, would have meant that European countries would still have felt threatened by neighbor Russia as it watched their power grow. They each would have wanted weapons to defend themselves. They would have united, and bought weapons from the US one way or another to have a deterrence to Russia. So every nation would have desired arms, or an alliance with a greater power or partners, especially after seeing what Russia did in former Soviet countries to reign them in, and the genocidal killing they engaged in, in Chechnya and Georgia.

[Sarah]

What has NATO done to flex any muscle since it's creation. Has it ever attacked Russia?

You don't have to attack to be considered an existential threat. Major experts have warned about this for decades. This is reality power politics here. If NATO/US keeps pressing east, Russia is going to react, especially Ukraine which is unique to Russian history. And that's probably what the US wants, because the blame becomes easy, like Lincoln and FDR and the "first shots". They could care less about the Ukrainians. Like I've said before, they are now mere sacrificial lambs in the power politics chessboard.

You really think American politicians want a war with Russia? Even if they did and counted on NATO to all jump into the fight, they wouldn't, because NATO is divided. They all have their own governments and own opinions. Their leaders are changing in these governments all time. It's a silly narrative that NATO wants this war. Why are they not fighting if they want war?

[Sarah]

Mearsheimer spoke of our failed unipolar moment. The Great Delusion

Our "failed unipolor moment?" You either have a balance of power in the world, or world domination.

[ajax]

We are never going to convince each other, nor do I care to. It's just endless gibberish(both sides) with a person I don't even know. Neither you or I are experts either. You can pull yours, I can pull mine and it's irrelevant. We just have different opinions based on our different levels of education, experience and backgrounds. No skin off my back.

[ajax]

Mearsheimer spoke of our failed unipolar moment. The Great Delusion

Our "failed unipolor moment?" You either have a balance of power in the world, or world domination.

Wow, you watched that whole thing in 10 minutes huh?

[Artaxerxes]

"Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process."

Zelenski is wittingly or unwittingly doing the will of Putin. Putin knows he has the power to fight for awhile in Ukraine with only a weak opposition to deal with, just like he knew in all the other places Putin has invaded. It's a way to draw out the strong freedom-loving fighters and put them down. He's trimming up the country of any opposition. Zelenski is sending the people into a trap.

Respectfully disagree.

You have to look at this from 40,000 feet. It's globalism verses nationalism. Globalism is working towards a one world government...Ether 8 stuff. That's why Soros is so involved. NATO is being used by the globalusts to accomplish their objectives. NATO promised they would never move east of Germany...how did that work out?

Everyone has made Putin the Bond villian...by design. Putin is a nationalist. China is aligned with the globalists. Any military leader worth their salt...would tell you that Putin CANNOT let Ukraine join NATO...strategically speaking. Zelenski even understands this, though he is putting on his freedom fighter Huck Fin act. The globalists want Putin gone.

NATO was/is the flashpoint. Putin is not a stupid man, he understands that a NATO member Ukraine would be the beginning of the end for Russia.

The Ukrainian president is a Soros globalist puppit...who could have avoided this nonsense.

Why would it be the end? They already share a border with four Nato countries (five if you count the US border with Russia). Why is Ukraine such an existential threat?

Many military reasons....a massive one being...Control of Crimea gives Moscow continuing access to the naval base at Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet.

You keep forgetting that if Zelenski hadn't pushed NATO...we would all still be watching covid nonsense and not war footage.

This also diverts attention away from Biden's disastrous economy and the realization that the covid jabs are KILLING lots of people. Globalists love every minute of this.

Those are kind of different issues. Certainly the Russians want control of crimea for it's dry docks. But that's a separate issue from how scary it is to have Nato on your borders. That's just good, old-fashioned "you have something I want so I'll take it because I can."

But again, why is it a crisis for Nato to share a border with Russia. It's been happening for decades. Where is the crisis?

[Sarah]

Mearsheimer spoke of our failed unipolar moment. The Great Delusion

Our "failed unipolor moment?" You either have a balance of power in the world, or world domination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer

"Precisely two decades after Mearsheimer had detected the watchman in the world for the last time, he rediscovered the watchman, which exists and keeps Europe at peace. The article "Why Is Europe Peaceful Today?" unambiguously answers, "The reason is simple: the United States is by far the most powerful country in the world and it effectively acts as a night watchman."[33]"

Sounds like he's flip-flopped now on that idea.

"Mearsheimer wrote a book, Why Leaders Lie (Oxford University Press, 2011), which analyzes lying in international politics. He argues that leaders lie to foreign audiences because they think that it is good for their country. For example, he maintains that US President Franklin Roosevelt lied about the Greer incident in September 1941 because he was deeply committed to getting America into World War II, which he thought was in its national interest.[66]
His two main findings are that leaders actually do not lie very much to other countries and that democratic leaders are actually more likely than autocrats to lie to their own people.[67]"

This is false. Autocrats can lie much more to their citizens than democratic leaders can, because autocrats can control the press, and be free from sharing power which opens those doors.

"In The Great Delusion: Liberal Dreams and International Realities (Yale University Press, 2018)[69] Mearsheimer presents a critique of the geopolitical strategy he refers to as "liberal hegemony." His definition of liberal hegemony includes a three-part designation of it as an extension of Woodrow Wilson's original initiatives to make the world safe by turning its governments into democracies, turning geopolitical economic initiatives towards open markets compatible with democratic governments, and opening up and promoting other democratically liberal international social and culture societies on a global scale of inclusion. Mearsheimer stated in an interview broadcast on CSPAN that liberal hegemony represents a "great delusion" and that much more weight should be associated with nationalism as a policy of enduring geopolitical value than the delusions he associated with liberal hegemony.

In a related 2019 article, Mearsheimer argued that the US-led liberal international order had been destined to collapse from its inception.[70] Contrary to scholars such as G. John Ikenberry, who trace the origins of the liberal international order to the early Cold War, he asserted that the Cold War liberal order had in fact been a "bounded order," designed to help the United States and its allies compete more effectively against the communist bloc. Although the US-led order became truly international after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the policies that undergird the order tended to precipitate its demise to the point that "[e]ven if Western policymakers had been wiser stewards of that order, they could not have extended its longevity in any meaningful way" (p. 30). In particular, US-led efforts to expand the order's membership by spreading democracy were bound to backfire by provoking nationalist resistance, embroiling the US in disastrous military adventures, and stoking hostility among rival powers such as Russia and China. Liberal internationalist policies also tended to collide with nationalism and economic concerns within the liberal countries themselves, as illustrated by key events such as Brexit and the election of Donald Trump to the US presidency. Finally, the drive to integrate rising powers such as China into the liberal international order effectively "helped China become a great power, thus undercutting unipolarity, which is essential for maintaining a liberal world order" (p. 42).

Mearsheimer concluded by predicting that the liberal international order would be replaced by three distinct "realist orders" in the near term: "a thin international order," primarily concerned with arms control and managing the global economy, and two bounded orders, led respectively by China and the United States (p. 44).


It sounds like he is trying to make nationalism a moral absolute, as in globalism bad, nationalism good. This is part of this false narrative. Who cares if it is constitutional or authoritarian, as long as it isn't "global."


"In 2019, Mearsheimer said his preferred candidate in the Democratic presidential primary was Bernie Sanders.[79] Mearsheimer said that economic inequality was the greatest problem faced by the United States.[79]"

Well, that explains why he would favor the communist side.

[The Red Pill]

Respectfully disagree.

You have to look at this from 40,000 feet. It's globalism verses nationalism. Globalism is working towards a one world government...Ether 8 stuff. That's why Soros is so involved. NATO is being used by the globalusts to accomplish their objectives. NATO promised they would never move east of Germany...how did that work out?

Everyone has made Putin the Bond villian...by design. Putin is a nationalist. China is aligned with the globalists. Any military leader worth their salt...would tell you that Putin CANNOT let Ukraine join NATO...strategically speaking. Zelenski even understands this, though he is putting on his freedom fighter Huck Fin act. The globalists want Putin gone.

NATO was/is the flashpoint. Putin is not a stupid man, he understands that a NATO member Ukraine would be the beginning of the end for Russia.

The Ukrainian president is a Soros globalist puppit...who could have avoided this nonsense.

Why would it be the end? They already share a border with four Nato countries (five if you count the US border with Russia). Why is Ukraine such an existential threat?

Many military reasons....a massive one being...Control of Crimea gives Moscow continuing access to the naval base at Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet.

You keep forgetting that if Zelenski hadn't pushed NATO...we would all still be watching covid nonsense and not war footage.

This also diverts attention away from Biden's disastrous economy and the realization that the covid jabs are KILLING lots of people. Globalists love every minute of this.

Those are kind of different issues. Certainly the Russians want control of crimea for it's dry docks. But that's a separate issue from how scary it is to have Nato on your borders. That's just good, old-fashioned "you have something I want so I'll take it because I can."

But again, why is it a crisis for Nato to share a border with Russia. It's been happening for decades. Where is the crisis?

Different issues???? What are you talking about???? Dry docks????

"Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet."

THAT IS THE ISSUE, RIGHT THERE!!

Sevastopol is part of Ukraine...IN UKRAINE....as in Putin does NOT want NATO to mess with Savastopol...EVER!! Putin has been saying for YEARS that Ukraine is OFF limits to NATO. This is not a surprise attack, Putin warned Ukraine many many times...Ukraine ignored and poked the bear...the bear bit back.

If you don't understand that, we just need to agree to disagree on this.

[mudflap]

George Soros "helped" the Ukrainian president come to power...

George Soros is CURRENTLY promoting support for Ukraine and it's president.

Do you really need to understand any more than this????

Just as the United States would NEVER allow China to install nuclear missiles in Tijuana...Putin CANNOT allow Ukraine to become part of NATO and do just the same on Russsia's border.

This ENTIRE war could have and should have been avoided....by Ukraine announcing that NATO is OFF the table.

Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process.

+1000!

Biden / Pelosi / Romney's kids aren't going to be the ones getting killed. The fact that we've gone from "no more wars" to "let's do a no-fly zone over Ukraine" in less than a month is a testament to the propaganda power of the Deep State that surely exists.

That bullet list of all the reasons Russia wants Ukraine that's been floating around - listing agricultural reasons and other nonsense - I think it's US Gov propaganda. a lot of people that don't study history fell for it. Since a lot of those folks are here on the forum, here's an image showing how well you've been played by your own government:



- you got played when we went off the gold standard
- you got played by sending all our manufacturing to China
- you got played about WMD's in Iraq
- you got played for 20 years in Afghanistan - they told you we were winning, and in 1 month, it all collapsed, the Taliban is back in power, and nobody got fired for failure or losing all those planes / helicopters / tanks / or weapons.
- you got played over Covid - and most of you got played over the vaxxine - even "the very elect" are deceived
- you are being played right now with Ukraine - It's astounding how many are beating the war drums.

Mormon 5:18:

But now, behold, they are led about by Satan, even as chaff is driven before the wind, or as a vessel is tossed about upon the waves, without sail or anchor, or without anything wherewith to steer her; and even as she is, so are they.

Please wake up.

1. Pro-Russia people need to wake up. 2. That entire list you gave just proves that America is failing at everything it does. 3. What is the ultimate goal of the deep state if they really are the bad guys?

4. Btw, Pelosi and Romney don't have children that work in Ukraine. It's part of the Russian/alt-right propaganda nonsense conservatives have been fed for the last two decades.

?

1. Who's Pro Russia on here? Why do you want everyone to take sides? Are you a lefty? Ether didn't take sides, and it turned out ok for him.
2. Not America - the US Government. Big Difference.
3. The ultimate goal is power and control.
4. nobody is saying that. Biden definitely does. Ukraine is as much of a democracy as Pelosi's father's crime family was.

[mudflap]

Here is a link to a differing view on what is going on in Ukraine/Russia titled They're Trying To Get You To Support Another Phony War .

https://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2022 ... t.html?m=1

The guy is just repeating the Russian narrative. He says that the Ukrainian government has been shelling it's own people in Eastern Ukraine, but that is not true and there's no proof. The many testimonies out there are that the Russian "separatists" have been shooting at the Ukrainians every day. Just watch all the videos I posted of reporters on the front lines.
This guy also claims that the government in Ukraine are Western puppets, but I just did a post about how un-western these guys are acting.

https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-i ... re-silent/

care to recant?

Surprise Surprise, but the author has RT next to her name. That means she is paid by the Russian government. Can you find any front line videos with reporters that aren't connected to RT?

Russia has a massive media complex.

I see.

So....:



and they stole the election from Hillary - WE KNOW! you better let twitter know so they can SAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH by CENSORING SPEECH... meanwhile...



And as requested: I found dozens of articles detailing the shelling of the Donbass region by Ukraine - without RT. You could find them too - took me just a few seconds on a non-censored search engine - here's a few:

- https://www.wardiary.net/post/ukrainian ... 19-donbass
- https://www.donbass-insider.com/2019/12 ... -ministry/
- https://tass.com/politics/1072303
- https://www.rferl.org/a/ukrainian-soldi ... 52642.html (oooo! look! it's from a source you upheld last week as legitimate)
- https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29912055 (Gaa! quick! call the queen! tell her the Russians are coming!)
- https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ukraine- ... _b_6585116 (oooo! Huffpost? I didn't know they were Russian trolls....)
- https://news.yahoo.com/dozens-die-ukrai ... 07227.html (Yahoo? Is that Russian for "DisInfo"?)
- https://www.dw.com/en/about-dw/s-30688 (Germany? what the????)
- https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/do ... -shelling/ (open democracy? it's gotta be lies....)
- https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and- ... time-bomb/
- https://www.stalkerzone.org/ukraines-ma ... -reaction/
- https://www.stalkerzone.org/residents-i ... ling-them/
- https://southfront.org/fighting-increas ... ss-region/

I'm sure you'll recant now....

[Sarah]

The guy is just repeating the Russian narrative. He says that the Ukrainian government has been shelling it's own people in Eastern Ukraine, but that is not true and there's no proof. The many testimonies out there are that the Russian "separatists" have been shooting at the Ukrainians every day. Just watch all the videos I posted of reporters on the front lines.
This guy also claims that the government in Ukraine are Western puppets, but I just did a post about how un-western these guys are acting.

https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-i ... re-silent/

care to recant?

Surprise Surprise, but the author has RT next to her name. That means she is paid by the Russian government. Can you find any front line videos with reporters that aren't connected to RT?

Russia has a massive media complex.

I see.

So....:



and they stole the election from Hillary - WE KNOW! you better let twitter know so they can SAVE FREEDOM OF SPEECH by CENSORING SPEECH... meanwhile...



And as requested: I found dozens of articles detailing the shelling of the Donbass region by Ukraine - without RT. You could find them too - took me just a few seconds on a non-censored search engine - here's a few:

- https://www.wardiary.net/post/ukrainian ... 19-donbass
- https://www.donbass-insider.com/2019/12 ... -ministry/
- https://tass.com/politics/1072303
- https://www.rferl.org/a/ukrainian-soldi ... 52642.html (oooo! look! it's from a source you upheld last week as legitimate)
- https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29912055 (Gaa! quick! call the queen! tell her the Russians are coming!)
- https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ukraine- ... _b_6585116 (oooo! Huffpost? I didn't know they were Russian trolls....)
- https://news.yahoo.com/dozens-die-ukrai ... 07227.html (Yahoo? Is that Russian for "DisInfo"?)
- https://www.dw.com/en/about-dw/s-30688 (Germany? what the????)
- https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/do ... -shelling/ (open democracy? it's gotta be lies....)
- https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and- ... time-bomb/
- https://www.stalkerzone.org/ukraines-ma ... -reaction/
- https://www.stalkerzone.org/residents-i ... ling-them/
- https://southfront.org/fighting-increas ... ss-region/

I'm sure you'll recant now....

I asked for FRONT-LINE VIDEOS, that means I'd like interviews with separatists on the front lines.
Most of these are simply rehashes of he said, she said, they said, whatever. The only one with video was the first link, which just showed overhead silent footage of bombs dropping, which could have been anywhere. And it most likely was false-flag attacks to be able to accuse Ukraine of something.

Keep in mind that Russia has a MMC - massive media complex.

The second linked article has no author. It's off a blog that says this about themselves:
"This website was created by people working as journalists and translators since years. After working for a news agency, we thought it was necessary to create a new platform, where authors from different agencies, blogs, and information websites can collaborate together to spread information."

Where have I heard that before? This is Russian disinfo standard operating procedure.

Third link is from Tass. Tass is a Russian state-owned news agency. More Russian propaganda.

Forth link - story which says this: "Rochelli and Mironov were working in the Donetsk region when they were hit by mortar shelling by the Ukrainian military just weeks after fighting broke out between Ukrainian forces and Russia-backed separatist formations in parts of eastern Ukraine."
Again, this is just a report from who knows. And it was weeks after the outbreak of violence. You'd expect there to be some back and forth in that first month. Who's been provoking for the last 8 years?

Fifth link - Again a story from the very early breakout of violence in 2014, that said a shell had hit a school near the airport. Doesn't say who shot it. "The shell landed close to Donetsk airport at a school..." ""The area around Donetsk airport has seen some of the worst violence in the weeks since the ceasefire was declared. Ukrainian forces have been holding out at the airport despite a siege by the separatists."

Sixth link - "These are more casualties to a war that is quickly escalating. After yesterday's attack, each side blamed the other for the atrocities." The author is not putting the blame on the Ukrainian side. There is testimony that the Separatists/Russians were doing the shelling.

Seventh link - from Aug 2014, There's no proof presented that it is Ukrainian military killing civilians. ""The Ukrainian army or whoever they are – they’re bombing us again. I've lived in the apartment building my entire life and now they want to take everything I have. There is nothing left to lose here in this city," ..."The Ukrainian government denies that its forces are targeting civilian areas. Another nine people, pro-Ukrainian volunteer fighters supporting Kiev's forces, were killed overnight in separate clashes near Donetsk, Ukrainian officials said. The government in Kiev and its allies have accused Moscow of orchestrating the separatist rebellion and equipping the rebels with tanks, missiles and other heavy weaponry. Moscow denies this and accuses Kiev of waging a war against its own people and shelling civilians."

Eighth link - didn't work - no article there but looked like the about page

Ninth link - "The war in Ukraine’s Donbas is now in its fourth year. This is mostly thanks to Russian military and financial support for separatist forces, and because of the ineffectual policies of the Ukrainian government, which has been unable to come up with a strategy to free the country from an external aggressor and end the crisis." "...“Life’s pretty bad here. When there’s shooting, we hide in the cellar. There was a sniper firing around here yesterday." "...Popasna is a town in the Luhansk region and an administrative centre of its eponymous administrative district. At the moment, the area is under Ukrainian control, but despite the Minsk Agreements, shelling can be heard in the town daily. “They’re firing at us every day,” a local woman tells me, “but nobody talks about it.
The Ukrainian soldiers on the front lines testify that the separatists are initiating the shelling every day.

Tenth link - blogger that doesn't look like he's blaming Ukraine for anything

Eleventh link - Another mysterious website that lists nothing about the author(s) on their about page. The article's author's name is Ollie Richardson. If you can find any info on this person, I'll say kudos!

Twelve - same website as #11. Heck the address says "stalkerzone.org" I'm sure they're trustworthy.

#13 - "2 DPR soldiers have been killed and 8 taken captive as result of the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ shelling near the village of Shirokino in the Donbass region, TASS reported on June 28"
A reference to Tass Russian government propaganda.

[Artaxerxes]

"Ask yourself why the Ukrainian president wants to poke the bear...and sacrifice his own people in the process."

Zelenski is wittingly or unwittingly doing the will of Putin. Putin knows he has the power to fight for awhile in Ukraine with only a weak opposition to deal with, just like he knew in all the other places Putin has invaded. It's a way to draw out the strong freedom-loving fighters and put them down. He's trimming up the country of any opposition. Zelenski is sending the people into a trap.

Respectfully disagree.

You have to look at this from 40,000 feet. It's globalism verses nationalism. Globalism is working towards a one world government...Ether 8 stuff. That's why Soros is so involved. NATO is being used by the globalusts to accomplish their objectives. NATO promised they would never move east of Germany...how did that work out?

Everyone has made Putin the Bond villian...by design. Putin is a nationalist. China is aligned with the globalists. Any military leader worth their salt...would tell you that Putin CANNOT let Ukraine join NATO...strategically speaking. Zelenski even understands this, though he is putting on his freedom fighter Huck Fin act. The globalists want Putin gone.

NATO was/is the flashpoint. Putin is not a stupid man, he understands that a NATO member Ukraine would be the beginning of the end for Russia.

The Ukrainian president is a Soros globalist puppit...who could have avoided this nonsense.

Why would it be the end? They already share a border with four Nato countries (five if you count the US border with Russia). Why is Ukraine such an existential threat?

Per Mearsheimer, most of those happened early in the game when Russia was too weak and in no position to do anything about it, though they voiced their opposition to it. Ukraine is the linchpin and Russia is now much more prepared.

Okay. But has it been a problem? Has Nato been nibbling away at Russian territory the war Russia has been nibbling at Georgian and Ukrainian territory?

[Artaxerxes]

Why would it be the end? They already share a border with four Nato countries (five if you count the US border with Russia). Why is Ukraine such an existential threat?

Many military reasons....a massive one being...Control of Crimea gives Moscow continuing access to the naval base at Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet.

You keep forgetting that if Zelenski hadn't pushed NATO...we would all still be watching covid nonsense and not war footage.

This also diverts attention away from Biden's disastrous economy and the realization that the covid jabs are KILLING lots of people. Globalists love every minute of this.

Those are kind of different issues. Certainly the Russians want control of crimea for it's dry docks. But that's a separate issue from how scary it is to have Nato on your borders. That's just good, old-fashioned "you have something I want so I'll take it because I can."

But again, why is it a crisis for Nato to share a border with Russia. It's been happening for decades. Where is the crisis?

Different issues???? What are you talking about???? Dry docks????

"Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet."

THAT IS THE ISSUE, RIGHT THERE!!

Sevastopol is part of Ukraine...IN UKRAINE....as in Putin does NOT want NATO to mess with Savastopol...EVER!! Putin has been saying for YEARS that Ukraine is OFF limits to NATO. This is not a surprise attack, Putin warned Ukraine many many times...Ukraine ignored and poked the bear...the bear bit back.

If you don't understand that, we just need to agree to disagree on this.

Oh no! They might have to move their ships to a different port! Yes, the incredible burden of moving ships over to Novorossiysk definitely justifies bombing a bunch of apartment complexes.

So what if that's what he wants? People wanting other people's things doesn't make it right. If you're saying Putin has imperial ambitions and therefore is going to invade his neighbors when they don't do what he wants, that's absolutely true. If you're saying it's their failure for not giving him what he wants, that's a pretty awful view of things.

[EvanLM]

US official: Russian invasion of Ukraine risks release of dangerous pathogens
By Matt Field | February 25, 2022

A research lab in Kyiv. A research lab in Kyiv, Ukraine built by the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program. Credit: Defense Threat Reduction Agency

The Russian invasion of Ukraine may put at risk a network of US-linked labs in Ukraine that work with dangerous pathogens, said Robert Pope, the director of the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, a 30-year-old Defense Department program that has helped secure the former Soviet Union’s weapons of mass destruction and redirect former bioweapons facilities and scientists toward peaceful endeavors.

The labs in Ukraine are not bioweapons facilities. The US government maintains that they are public and animal health labs operated by host countries. Although a long-running Russian disinformation campaign has painted a picture of a network of US military labs in Ukraine, Georgia, and other former Soviet republics involved in bioweapons or risky research, Pope said the labs conduct peaceful scientific research and disease surveillance. Outside experts have also said Pope’s program is not a covert bioweapons operation.

While the United States isn’t maintaining bioweapons facilities, Pope said, war could put pathogen collections in Ukraine at risk.

“I would say from every facility that we have worked with them in, we have confidence that as long as the electrical power is turned on and the people we have trained are present at the facility, the biosafety officers, that these pathogens are safe and secure to international standards,” Pope said. “Should these facilities be damaged by conflict, that could change.”

The pathogens with which the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program labs work are generally kept frozen, so they can’t replicate and become infectious. The risk the pathogens pose would increase if a building lost power and suffered damage. “If you lose the electrical power, the pathogens in the freezers warm up,” he said. “If the ventilation system is damaged, or the building itself is damaged, and these now ambient-temperature pathogens are able to escape the facility, then they can be potentially infectious in the region around the facility.”

Although Russian officials and media have misrepresented the US-supported labs in Ukraine and other former Soviet countries in disinformation campaigns, Pope doesn’t believe the Russians will deliberately aim weapons at the labs during the invasion.

“I think the Russians know enough about the kinds of pathogens that are stored in biological research laboratories that I don’t think they would deliberately target a laboratory,” Pope said. “But what I do have concerns about is that they would … be accidentally damaged during this Russian invasion.”

The invasion could also provide fodder for new disinformation narratives around the labs, Pope feared. The Russians, he said, “could potentially go to one of these facilities and fabricate something that they call evidence of nefarious activity at the facility.”

The pathogens in Ukrainian labs vary by facility, Pope said, but some can be characterized as presenting a concern in the Ukrainian environment. As an example, he cited African swine fever virus, which is highly contagious in pigs and has caused hundreds of outbreaks in Ukraine since 2012. Some labs, he said, may hold pathogen strains left over from the Soviet bioweapons program, preserved in freezers for research purposes.

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“There is no place that still has any of the sort of infrastructure for researching or producing biological weapons,” Pope said. “Scientists being scientists, it wouldn’t surprise me if some of these strain collections in some of these laboratories still have pathogen strains that go all the way back to the origins of that program.”

The program is encouraging host countries to reduce the scope of their pathogen holdings to as small of a collection as necessary for legitimate scientific research, Pope said.

“What we have today and what these countries maintain are small amounts of various pathogens that by and large are things that are collected out of their environment that they need for research to be able to legitimately surveil disease and develop vaccines against,” he said.

This work, Pope said, continued in Ukraine until recently. “They have more pathogens in more places than we recommend,” he said. The program had been helping Ukrainian researchers sift through their frozen pathogen collections, with the goal of persuading the Ukrainians to preserve their genetic information of samples via sequencing before destroying the live samples.

Pope said his program had been close to an agreement with the Ukrainians on consolidating samples, but the invasion has now made that project uncertain. “All of that, obviously, has been derailed here with the recent events,” he said.

The Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, Pope said Thursday, has not had contact with biosafety staff at the labs in Ukraine since the Russian invasion. Phone lines have been jammed in Ukraine, he said, and “I don’t know what kind of contact we will have in these labs in the near future.”

Some Ukrainian labs, like the Ukrainian Ministry of Health’s Public Health Center, Pope said, are major facilities, others small. Some are new, while others date back to the Soviet-era and the country’s bioweapons program.

The US government has worked with 26 facilities in Ukraine. Before the invasion, the program provided direct material support to six Ukrainian labs. The program also provides biosafety and scientific mentorship training to Ministry of Health personnel throughout the country.

Robert Pope Robert Pope, the director of the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, meets with Ukrainian officials. Credit: Defense Threat Reduction Agency.
Researchers consider the Soviet bioweapons program to be the most extensive and sophisticated to have existed, employing some 65,000 scientists. While both the United States and the Soviet Union signed the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention banning biological weapons, the Soviet Union went on to secretly expand its program. The country’s program had a forward-looking orientation; it sought, for instance, to develop chimeric viruses that had the genetic properties of two viruses and even to create viral/bacterial hybrids, biosecurity experts Milton Leitenberg and Raymond Zilinskas wrote a well-regarded history of the program in 2012.

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The Cooperative Threat Reduction Program began with heavy Russian involvement. In the early 1990s, “employees at the multiple former biological weapon facilities operated by Biopreparat, the non-military part of the program, were increasingly desperate to support themselves and their families,” according to a 2020 account published by the US National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. An agreement among the European Union, the United States, Russia, and Japan led to the development of the International Science and Technology Center in Moscow, which channeled US Cooperative Threat Reduction Program resources and funds from other countries into scientific projects involving former biological weapons experts.

The technology center supported thousands of “former weaponeers,” who worked on projects in areas such as lab safety, infectious disease research, medical countermeasures, and diagnostic test development.

The Pentagon even sponsored Western scientists to work in former Russian bioweapons labs. By 2012, however, the arrangement between Russia, the United States, and others began to unravel, and Russia ended its agreement to host the International Science and Technology Center, which has since moved to Kazakhstan.

Cooperative Threat Reduction Program efforts have continued in the former Soviet republics of Ukraine and Georgia. After 9/11, the program began to focus more on how terrorists could misuse biological research and the program’s biological threat reduction component, as opposed to programs involving nuclear or chemical weapons, Pope said. Now, 62 percent of the program’s $360 million budget for this fiscal year is focused on biological issues.

At some point after Russia pulled out of the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, disinformation campaigns involving Russian officials, state media, and others began to allege that the United States was running a bioweapons program on Russia’s periphery, or that it was jeopardizing the health of local citizens with dangerous experimentation. As Russia’s march to war in Ukraine heated up, so too did a campaign to discredit US-affiliated labs in the country.

Pope suspects the Russian disinformation campaign against the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program stems from Russian President Vladimir Putin’s vision of wielding influence in the countries surrounding Russia

“You look at the partners we have in several of the former Soviet republics, like Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan, where we have had great partnerships over many years—I think Vladimir Putin looks at that as a zero-sum game of, ‘if they are partnering with the US, then that is a threat to the Russian sphere of influence,’” Pope said.

Putin’s end game in Ukraine remains unclear. On the second day of the invasion, Russian troops had reportedly advanced into the capital Kyiv. By any measure, Ukraine’s popular government is teetering on the edge. Pope said he’s anxious to resume working with his partners in Ukraine. That is not a sure prospect at this point.


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Keywords: Cooperative Threat Reduction, Disinformation, Ukraine
Topics: Biosecurity



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5 COMMENTS
Oldest
TVF
TVF
3 days ago
We can restock labs later. Disposing of anything of threat at this point is the responsibility of the scientists running those labs or they are as liable.
Every laboratory facility ensures their potentially dangerous materials do not escape into the public or they face consequences. This should be no different. Incinerating on site should be feasible in light of active war in the country.

28
Reply
VF
VF
3 days ago
Okay well if they’re willingly not going to incinerate these pathogens…..wouldn’t Russia bombing these pathogen facilities be the next best thing? You would think a missile or a bomb would easily incinerate these pathogens…..

5
Reply
Liz F
Liz F
2 days ago
Reply to VF
A missile or bomb would just as easily release pathogens as it would incinerate them. Intentional destruction should be the priority

8
Reply
Vanessa F.
Vanessa F.
3 days ago
I’m just sayin…..If Ukraine’s Lab staff didn’t already immediately incinerate ALL of the pathogens present in their labs as soon as Russia’s full scale invasion began…….then wouldn’t we actually want Russia to send a missile/bomb to these lab’s? To ensure the pathogens are destroyed? Since a missile/bomb would most likely incinerate EVERYTHING in it’s direct path. You know I think people forget that the COVID-19 pandemic is still in full swing! It was never declassified as no longer being a pandemic and now you’re telling me the world needs to worry more about these pathogens potentially being released during this… Read more »

-6
Reply
Philip Cruz
Philip Cruz
1 day ago
Thermobaric weapons. Hotter than Hot. They are in use for this purpose.

0
Reply
Matt Field, Bulletin associate editor
Matt Field
Matt Field is Editor, Disruptive Technologies at the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. Before joining the Bulletin, he covered the... Read More


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[The Red Pill]

Many military reasons....a massive one being...Control of Crimea gives Moscow continuing access to the naval base at Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet.

You keep forgetting that if Zelenski hadn't pushed NATO...we would all still be watching covid nonsense and not war footage.

This also diverts attention away from Biden's disastrous economy and the realization that the covid jabs are KILLING lots of people. Globalists love every minute of this.

Those are kind of different issues. Certainly the Russians want control of crimea for it's dry docks. But that's a separate issue from how scary it is to have Nato on your borders. That's just good, old-fashioned "you have something I want so I'll take it because I can."

But again, why is it a crisis for Nato to share a border with Russia. It's been happening for decades. Where is the crisis?

Different issues???? What are you talking about???? Dry docks????

"Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet."

THAT IS THE ISSUE, RIGHT THERE!!

Sevastopol is part of Ukraine...IN UKRAINE....as in Putin does NOT want NATO to mess with Savastopol...EVER!! Putin has been saying for YEARS that Ukraine is OFF limits to NATO. This is not a surprise attack, Putin warned Ukraine many many times...Ukraine ignored and poked the bear...the bear bit back.

If you don't understand that, we just need to agree to disagree on this.

Oh no! They might have to move their ships to a different port! Yes, the incredible burden of moving ships over to Novorossiysk definitely justifies bombing a bunch of apartment complexes.

So what if that's what he wants? People wanting other people's things doesn't make it right. If you're saying Putin has imperial ambitions and therefore is going to invade his neighbors when they don't do what he wants, that's absolutely true. If you're saying it's their failure for not giving him what he wants, that's a pretty awful view of things.

Your reply demonstrates how utterly illiterate you are about the significance of THAT port, Russian history, military strategy and geopolitical dealings in the region. I nor anyone else is interested in bringing you up to speed on it either....

I suggest studying more on your own before writing flippant, childish replies about something you know NOTHING about.

[Artaxerxes]

Those are kind of different issues. Certainly the Russians want control of crimea for it's dry docks. But that's a separate issue from how scary it is to have Nato on your borders. That's just good, old-fashioned "you have something I want so I'll take it because I can."

But again, why is it a crisis for Nato to share a border with Russia. It's been happening for decades. Where is the crisis?

Different issues???? What are you talking about???? Dry docks????

"Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet."

THAT IS THE ISSUE, RIGHT THERE!!

Sevastopol is part of Ukraine...IN UKRAINE....as in Putin does NOT want NATO to mess with Savastopol...EVER!! Putin has been saying for YEARS that Ukraine is OFF limits to NATO. This is not a surprise attack, Putin warned Ukraine many many times...Ukraine ignored and poked the bear...the bear bit back.

If you don't understand that, we just need to agree to disagree on this.

Oh no! They might have to move their ships to a different port! Yes, the incredible burden of moving ships over to Novorossiysk definitely justifies bombing a bunch of apartment complexes.

So what if that's what he wants? People wanting other people's things doesn't make it right. If you're saying Putin has imperial ambitions and therefore is going to invade his neighbors when they don't do what he wants, that's absolutely true. If you're saying it's their failure for not giving him what he wants, that's a pretty awful view of things.

Your answer demonstrates how utterly illiterate you are about the significance of THAT port, Russian history, military strategy and geopolitical dealings in the region. I nor anyone else is interested in bringing you up to speed on it either....

I suggest studying more on your own before writing flippant, childish replies about something you know NOTHING about.

"There are all these facts that support my argument that I'm not going to post" is always incredibly persuasive.