Differing View on the Ukraine/Russia Conflict

[EvanLM]

theres also a utube out regarding Russia blasting a dam in Ukraine that feeds into crimea . . .Crimea has been without water since Putin took it over . . . all people russian and Ukranian . . . without water for 2 years

check out what countries are siding with russia and what are not . . .tells you who the NWO has taken over . . .oh yeah one would be USA

[Serragon]

I support Ukraine for the very simple reason that they have been invaded by Russia and Russia's stated intent is to claim that territory for themselves.

I don't care if they are the perfect democracy, or what their leader does in his spare time. They were invaded and people are now defending their lives, family, culture, and property.

It is really that simple.

[mudflap]

please checkout the utube video regarding mccain, graham and amy globaucher in Ukraine . . . . just google their names and ukraine army and listen carefully . . . before it gets censored . . .

it's too late for a lot of stuff - I've already seen a lot of "page not found" for stuff that might incriminate DC swamp creatures. First casualty in war is always "the truth".

[InfoWarrior82]

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[harakim]

Russia is incapable of sneaking suitcase nukes into the United States.


If you want to put this into perspective, imagine society collapses and you live in a Suburban neighborhood. Imagine there is a house of Navy Seals that trains every day outside and has lockers full of weapons. They randomly lash out at houses where the people are acting like they don't like. And they've always had it in for you. How would you feel?

The United States doesn't have any "near peer" adversaries. We are so much more powerful that we could easily take over Russia or any other country in the world (forgetting about nuclear weapons.) In fact, we could probably take over all of Europe or all of Asia. We are that much more powerful. It is reasonable for other countries to be afraid of the United States, especially when we start encircling them.

I think this is all some kind of performance, but it's a believable one if it is. The United States is really that much of a threat to the entire world.

I don't agree with your assessment. Russia and China are definitely peer adversaries, and have had the goal of building up their militaries to defeat us for decades. It's very likely they have lied about the true number of everything in their arsenal. Please read the thread I've started about the book, "New Lies for Old," to understand their long-term strategy. Also, Heritage foundation does an assessment our our military every year: https://www.heritage.org/military They've labeled much of our military force as "marginal" and "weak." Scroll down the Executive Summary to see the charts. Or dive in deeper with their essays.

I usually agree with your posts, but I'm not surprised you have that opinion given the demoralization and outright lies that run in the media and educational circles. I don't disagree that Russia and China are trying to build up their militaries to be able to defeat us. They haven't been able to. The Gulf War was against Iraq and we defeated them in under a week. They had more practice than any other country because they had been at war for 8 years with Iran, a real war. So they had lots of practice, they had modern US arms, and they had the 5th most powerful army in the world. And then we decided we needed to do something about them.

But don't take my word for it!

"In 1991, Chinese military officers watched as the United States dismantled the Iraqi Army, a force with more battle experience and somewhat greater technical sophistication than the People’s Liberation Army (PLA). The Americans won with casualties that were trivial by historical standards." - National Interest

Until the Gulf War, people knew the US was powerful but that was shell shock for every country in the world.

You can read about it online. I can even find you a book recommendation if you want. In 1991, we could probably have taken on the entire world and won. They have been working feverishly ever since and yet, who can match our Navy? Who can match our air force? Who can match our space force? Who even has a space force? How many countries can move any of their dozen and a half extremely well-defended air force bases (with 5000+ personnel!) anywhere in the world within 2 weeks? How many countries can send a bevy of bombers undetected all the way around the world, hit a target and fly back? How many countries can have boots on the ground anywhere in the world within 48 hours? The answer is one country and it's the US.

Russia has an upper crust of very well trained military as do other countries. However, there are few countries who have even 10% of their troops equipped and trained as well as our worst trained troops. We have the best technology, we have the best Special Forces... Do you know which air service is the best in the world? The US Air force. Who is the second best? The US Navy. I don't really know how to emphasize the advantages we have over every other country. I hate to break it, but Russia is not a near peer in any way except they also have nuclear weapons.

Attacking China in its homeland would give us a run for our money for the first time in history. I think the powers that be may be waiting for them to become a near peer so we can destroy each other, but I also think they could just have sabotaged our electric equipment and we'd be off the world stage at their earliest convenience. Hopefully not, but we have been warned:

The manner of their oaths and combinations are had among all people (Ether 8:20).

You don't think that with Russian and Chinese forces combined, they could destroy us? What about if Iran and North Korea (their friends) were also fighting us at the same time as both of them?

Did you read the heritage report? For years now our military has not been ranked high enough to engage in more than one major conflict. We are headed for that - engaging in more than one area of the world, which Russia helping in the Middle East, and China in the Pacific.

I think without nuclear weapons or cyber attacks, we would win and, not only that, we probably wouldn't even notice a difference in our lifestyle until the Chinese products stopped arriving.

The reason we have trouble in conflicts is we choose rules of engagement that limit us and we have unclear objectives that change as leadership changes. If we were being attacked, the rules of engagement would be bent or broken. We dropped two atomic bombs on Japan. That war ended real quick. If the gloves come off the US is a lot more powerful than we allow ourselves to be.

Viet Nam beat us, Korea tied us (both with Chinese help). We don't have the will to fight. Afganistan and Taliban beat us. China and Russia don't play fair.

It's hard for me to agree we were beaten. What setback did we suffer? What objective did we fail? The only 2 communist countries left in the western hemisphere are cautionary tales as much as anything. Then there's North Korea. They are a great example of why not to be communist. The iron curtain came down and the countries on the other side of it largely joined the "free market" west. The Soviet Union fell and it's only China who could really spread communism but they don't really do that. It seems like we stopped the spread of communism for at least 70 years.

What were our objectives in Vietnam? Would you say those objectives have been achieved or not? Vietnam is not on our enemy's side and is not communist. Mission Accomplished.

Korea. Did we stop the spread of communism there? I'd say we did stop the spread. North Korea has never expanded.

Afghanistan can't really beat us. They aren't even a real country. They are a place on a map where people lived without a centralized government, but that doesn't sit well with intellectuals, so they say it's a country. What makes a country? Ethnicity? It's not a country. Enforced borders? Not a country. The ability to collect taxes? Not a country. The ability to project force within its borders? Not a country.

We went in there to give them the freedom to choose democracy over tribalism and a modern system over an ancient one. We definitely gave them the freedom to make that choice and most of them chose tribalism and ancient ways.

Your last point is very accurate. China and Russia do not play fair. They don't have to play fair because they don't have any moral high ground to hold. No one wants to move to China or Russia unless they live somewhere like North Korea. They have already lost the popularity contest. Everyone knows that Russia and China are inhumane, etc. That's why people can condemn the US for police who shoot threatening criminals, but China can murder a million of its own citizens and that's just fine. (Expectations)

If our leaders really care about us, and we were in a dire situation, we would cut the rules of engagement, we would drop the multiple checks for civilians before we conduct an operation, we would not be that worried about destroying infrastructure or supporting fair elections in the country of our enemy, etc.. Then you could see what America is capable of on a fair playing field.

As it is, I think the enemy is within our gates. We will probably suffer a crippling economic or cyber attack. It might be coupled with a real biological attack as well. If we suffer a cyber attack, you can be pretty sure it was engineered within the west. Russia and China do not have the capable to pull something like that off alone. There are vulnerabilities designed into electronics and those vulnerabilities are designed within the "west".

[mudflap]

I made a meme:

[Sarah]

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I think there's lots of pro-Taiwan sentiment here in the US, and I think if it were China that suddenly invaded Taiwan, you would see similar sentiment and a scenario play out as we are seeing with Russia and Ukraine. But when China does invade Taiwan, it will be when we are too busy worrying about our guys stationed in South Korea. We have a formal defense treaty with SK, but not anymore with Taiwan. We used to, but then in 1978, China fooled us/bribed us into backing out of that in exchange for helping us with Afghanistan and Vietnam. If you've been reading my posts in my New Lies for Old thread, you'll understand how this type of manipulation and deception works to further the ends of the communists' long range goals. And taking Taiwan has been China's number one long-range goal.

[Sarah]

Actually, Ukraine DID request to join NATO in 2008, something President Bush had pushed for. Then, they fairly and democratically elected Yanukovych, who shelved the idea and wanted to remain neutral. Then the USA (under Obama) caused a coup supported by Soros and overthrew Yanukovych, who then fled Ukraine in 2014. A pro-NATO president (Poroshenko) was installed by the USA (just like Biden), and they started pushing to join NATO and started shelling the separatists in the Donbass region and it all went downhill from there.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/ ... p-ukraine/ has some good info on the Soros influence.


And yes, the plan was to put a base and nukes in Ukraine. https://armscontrolcenter.org/when-all- ... ne-crisis/

Joining Nato is a process. Yes, Poroshenko wanted to start that process, but that again is not the same thing as requesting Nato membership, and certainly is not a reason to start killing people and bombing apartment buildings.
https://www.rferl.org/amp/nato-ukraine- ... 90212.html

Where does that article say that the US or Ukraine or anything like that was planning to put a US base and nukes in Ukraine? It discussed the wisdom of a nuclear deterrence, but that seems to be it.

So, again, where's the crisis? The Cuban missile crisis was because Moscow actually put nukes in Cuba. The mere possibility that Ukraine might do somethings is enough to justify invading and killing people?

It's in the 2nd article:

Further Russian aggression toward Ukraine could be avoided, they suggest, if only President Obama would revive a Bush-era missile defense plan for Europe or at least accelerate the current plan, the European Phased Adaptive Approach (EPAA). If only Obama would consider deploying tactical nuclear weapons in Eastern Europe and provide additional billions (on top of the hundreds of billions already planned) to accelerate the modernization of the American nuclear arsenal, Putin would never show his bare chest again and return Crimea to Ukraine.

Some of these and other proposals can be found in the recent legislation sponsored by Senator Bob Corker (R-TN) titled “The Russian Aggression Prevention Act of 2014”. The legislation calls for accelerating implementation of the EPAA, halting nuclear weapons reductions under New START and any further reductions until Russia is in compliance with its arms control obligations and is no longer threatening Ukraine, and prohibiting overflights of U.S. territory by Russian aircraft under the Open Skies Treaty using new digital surveillance devices.

I believe Tulsi Gabbard's statement that if we had simply disavowed a push to have Ukraine join NATO, Russia wouldn't be in Ukraine right now. The fact the the entire country of Russia is being deplatformed is concerning. All we are being told is "Russia bad", without knowing any of their concerns- and with being forbidden to ask.

Tulsi Gabbard is also a Bernie Sanders supporter

I guess Gabbard is also one of the WEF's young global leaders. Schwab also bragged that Putin,Trudeau and Macron were as well.

[Being There]

Ukraine is evil, and part of the NWO.
Russia is the good guys in all this.


ZALENSKY HAS ORDERED ALL PEOPLE FLEEING UKRAINE SHOT ON SIGHT
WITHOUT EVEN QUESTIONING WHO THEY ARE.

This is done to all people caught attempting to flee mandatory conscription in Ukraine's armed forces.
THE FOLLOWING VIDEO WAS A LIVE STREAM FROM A MARRIED COUPLE WHO CAME ACROSS A MASSACRE AT A ZELENSKY CHECK POINT IN MARIUPOL.
THE LIVE STREAM CUTS AS THEY ARE SHOT.
RUSSIA TRIED TO SET UP SAFE CORRIDORS FOR PEOPLE TO LEAVE THROUGH.
OBVIOUSLY YOU DO NOT TAKE THE SHORTCUT!!!

Warning: Graphic Images
http://198.46.190.126/videos/zalenskymassacre.mp4

They are just pulling people and shooting them on the spot, leaving their cars abandoned and bodies strewn.

[Being There]

Ukraine is evil, and part of the NWO.
Russia is the good guys in all this.


ZALENSKY HAS ORDERED ALL PEOPLE FLEEING UKRAINE SHOT ON SIGHT
WITHOUT EVEN QUESTIONING WHO THEY ARE.

This is done to all people caught attempting to flee mandatory conscription in Ukraine's armed forces.
THE FOLLOWING VIDEO WAS A LIVE STREAM FROM A MARRIED COUPLE WHO CAME ACROSS A MASSACRE AT A ZELENSKY CHECK POINT IN MARIUPOL.
THE LIVE STREAM CUTS AS THEY ARE SHOT.
RUSSIA TRIED TO SET UP SAFE CORRIDORS FOR PEOPLE TO LEAVE THROUGH.
OBVIOUSLY YOU DO NOT TAKE THE SHORTCUT!!!

Warning: Graphic Images
http://198.46.190.126/videos/zalenskymassacre.mp4

They are just pulling people and shooting them on the spot, leaving their cars abandoned and bodies strewn.

Why is the Ukraine so Important to the Rothschild’s?
https://maddmedic.wordpress.com/2022/03 ... thschilds/

[Being There]

Ukraine targeting it's own people, not the Russian army.
We all know this is true, but it is nice to get on the ground confirmation.
The west was expecting this reporter to whitewash it, and she did not.

[Artaxerxes]

Ukraine is evil, and part of the NWO.
Russia is the good guys in all this.


ZALENSKY HAS ORDERED ALL PEOPLE FLEEING UKRAINE SHOT ON SIGHT
WITHOUT EVEN QUESTIONING WHO THEY ARE.

This is done to all people caught attempting to flee mandatory conscription in Ukraine's armed forces.
THE FOLLOWING VIDEO WAS A LIVE STREAM FROM A MARRIED COUPLE WHO CAME ACROSS A MASSACRE AT A ZELENSKY CHECK POINT IN MARIUPOL.
THE LIVE STREAM CUTS AS THEY ARE SHOT.
RUSSIA TRIED TO SET UP SAFE CORRIDORS FOR PEOPLE TO LEAVE THROUGH.
OBVIOUSLY YOU DO NOT TAKE THE SHORTCUT!!!

Warning: Graphic Images
http://198.46.190.126/videos/zalenskymassacre.mp4

They are just pulling people and shooting them on the spot, leaving their cars abandoned and bodies strewn.

So just to be clear, you saw a video on some random website of people with cartoonishly red paint coming down their heads, all in roughly the same way, but without any gunshot wounds anywhere (including any gunshot wounds that would explain the blood, because someone who got shot in the head is going to lose more than just a trickle of blood), and you thought "Oh, I for sure have to spread this obviously fake video!!!"

Is that about right?

[Being There]

Ukraine is evil, and part of the NWO.
Russia is the good guys in all this.


ZALENSKY HAS ORDERED ALL PEOPLE FLEEING UKRAINE SHOT ON SIGHT
WITHOUT EVEN QUESTIONING WHO THEY ARE.

This is done to all people caught attempting to flee mandatory conscription in Ukraine's armed forces.
THE FOLLOWING VIDEO WAS A LIVE STREAM FROM A MARRIED COUPLE WHO CAME ACROSS A MASSACRE AT A ZELENSKY CHECK POINT IN MARIUPOL.
THE LIVE STREAM CUTS AS THEY ARE SHOT.
RUSSIA TRIED TO SET UP SAFE CORRIDORS FOR PEOPLE TO LEAVE THROUGH.
OBVIOUSLY YOU DO NOT TAKE THE SHORTCUT!!!

Warning: Graphic Images
http://198.46.190.126/videos/zalenskymassacre.mp4

They are just pulling people and shooting them on the spot, leaving their cars abandoned and bodies strewn.

Zalensky has fled to Poland.
While he has his citizens murdered at gunpoint on the road and back roads for trying to flee. Typical!!!
Only Zalensky is actually fleeing the Russians. The Ukraine people are fleeing Zalensky!!! And they are doing that when Zalensky is claiming "The end of the world has arrived!!!". Yes, the end of HIS world. Perhaps he should start backing off on "the end of the world" by not murdering people who are trying to escape HIS tyranny.

[Being There]

A vet says The Ukraine coverage is B.S., and explains why, PERFECTLY.

http://198.46.190.126/videos/vetspeaksukraine.mp4

[Niemand]

Compilation of the most petty anti-Russia measures, from Disney+ removing Anastasia from its streaming services to Putin having his black belt in taekwondo removed to Russian football teams being taken off as an option on computer game.

This is Youtube. How long will this video remain up?

[mudflap]

This cannot be said too loudly:

Mormon 5:18: But now, behold, they are led about by Satan, even as chaff is driven before the wind, or as a vessel is tossed about upon the waves, without sail or anchor, or without anything wherewith to steer her; and even as she is, so are they.