Putin waves nuclear sword in confrontation with the West

[BroJones]

Putin has raised the Spector of nuclear weapons use...

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articl ... 18715.html

But would he really use nuclear?
I understand the US /Europe have 100 tactical nukes (in UK), while Russia has over 20,000!

[BroJones]

QUOTE:
WARSAW, Poland (AP) — It has been a long time since the threat of using nuclear weapons has been brandished so openly by a world leader, but Vladimir Putin has just done it, warning in a speech that he has the weapons available if anyone dares to use military means to try to stop Russia’s takeover of Ukraine.

The threat may have been empty, a mere baring of fangs by the Russian president, but it was noticed. It kindled visions of a nightmarish outcome in which Putin’s ambitions in Ukraine could lead to a nuclear war through accident or miscalculation.

“As for military affairs, even after the dissolution of the USSR and losing a considerable part of its capabilities, today’s Russia remains one of the most powerful nuclear states,” Putin said, in his pre-invasion address early Thursday.

“Moreover, it has a certain advantage in several cutting-edge weapons. In this context, there should be no doubt for anyone that any potential aggressor will face defeat and ominous consequences should it directly attack our country.”

By merely suggesting a nuclear response, Putin put into play the disturbing possibility that the current fighting in Ukraine might eventually veer into an atomic confrontation between Russia and the United States.

That apocalyptic scenario is familiar to those who grew up during the Cold War, an era when American school children were told to duck and cover under their desks in case of nuclear sirens, But that danger gradually receded from the public imagination after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union, when the two powers seemed to be on a glide path to disarmament, democracy and prosperity.

Before that, even young people understood the terrifying .idea behind the strategy of mutual assured destruction -- MAD for short -- a balance in nuclear capabilities that was meant to keep hands on each side off of the atomic trigger, knowing that any use of the doomsday weapons could end in the annihilation of both sides in a conflict.

And amazingly, no country has used nuclear weapons since 1945, when President Harry Truman dropped bombs on Japan in the belief that it was the surest way to end World War II quickly. It did, but at a loss of about 200,000 mostly civilian lives in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Around the world, even today, many regard that as a crime against humanity and question if it was worth it.

For a brief time after the war, the United States had a nuclear monopoly. But a few years after, the Soviet Union announced its own nuclear bomb and the two sides of the Cold War engaged in an arms race to build and develop increasingly more powerful weapons over the next few decades.

With the end of the Soviet Union in 1991, and its transformation to a hoped-for democracy under Boris Yeltsin, the United States and Russia agreed to limits on their armaments. Other post-Soviet countries like Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus voluntarily gave up the nukes on their territory after the Soviet Union dissolved.

In recent years, if nuclear weapons were spoken of at all, it was usually in the context of stopping their proliferation to countries like North Korea and Iran. (Iran denies that it wants to possess them and North Korea has been steadily but slowly building both its nuclear weapons and its delivery mechanisms. )

When former U.S. President Donald Trump made an implicit threat to use nuclear weapons against North Korea in August 2017, many were shocked. Trump spoke before diplomacy and his fruitless summits with Kim began the following year. “North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States,” Trump told reporters at his golf club in Bedminster, N.J.. “They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.” But North Korea’s nuclear arsenal is far smaller than Russia’s.

President Joe Biden has been aware of the danger of nuclear war between Russia and NATO since the emergence of the crisis with Ukraine. From the start, he has said NATO would not be sending troops into Ukraine because it could trigger direct fighting between the U.S. and Russia, leading to nuclear escalation and possibly World War III.

It was a tacit admission that the United States would not take on the Russians militarily over Ukraine, and instead rely on extraordinary sanctions to gradually strangle the Russian economy.

But the admission also included another truth. When it came to fighting off a Russian invasion, Ukraine remained on its own because it is a non-treaty member and does not qualify for protection under NATO’s nuclear umbrella.

If Putin tried to attack one of the America’s NATO partners, however, that would be a different situation, because the pact is fully committed to mutual defense, Biden has said.

Knowing that Biden had already taken a military response off the table, why did Putin even bother to raise it in his speech?

In part, he may have wanted to keep the West off balance, to prevent it from taking aggressive action to defend Ukraine against Putin’s blitzkrieg drive to take over the country.

But the deeper context seemed to be his great desire to show the world that Russia is a powerful nation, not to be ignored. Putin talks repeatedly about the humiliation of Russia after the Soviet collapse. By waving his nuclear sword, he echoed the bluster with which the Soviet Union had stared down the United States and earned, in his mind, respect.

After Putin’s speech, Pentagon officials offered only a muted response to his implied threat to use nuclear weapons against any country that tried to intervene in Ukraine.

A senior defense official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations, said Thursday that U.S. officials “don’t see an increased threat in that regard,” but he would not say more.

Putin’s language touches a raw nerve in the Pentagon because it highlights a longstanding concern that he might be willing to preemptively use nuclear weapons in Europe preemptively in a crisis.

This is one reason Washington has tried for years, without success, to persuade Moscow to negotiate limits on so-called tactical nuclear weapons -– those of shorter range that could be used in a regional war. Russia has a large numerical advantage in that weaponry, and some officials say the gap is growing.

Coincidentally, the Biden administration was wrapping up a Nuclear Posture Review –- a study of possible changes to U.S. nuclear forces and the policies that govern their use –- when Russia’s troop buildup near Ukraine reached a crisis stage this month. It’s unclear whether that study’s results will be reworked in light of the Russian invasion. "

[JK4Woods]

Using fear to keep us in line....

We regular citizens are not supposed to be able to understand how things work with Russia and geo-global politics.

This whole thing is a side show. Someone wants this to happen.

[BuriedTartaria]

Man. This is insane. I suppose we’ve always known things will eventually get this way even if this is not the moment

[spiritMan]

Putin has raised the Spector of nuclear weapons use...

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articl ... 18715.html

But would he really use nuclear?
I understand the US /Europe have 100 tactical nukes (in UK), while Russia has over 20,000!

Would he really use it. Yes!!!!

Art of War, know your enemy.

All you have to do is listen to (or read) the transcripts of his two speeches 1) when he went into the Donbass and 2) when he said he was going into Ukraine.

For Putin, this is an existential war. If he loses it he knows that Russia will be done for 100 years as an independent nation (think Japan). If he loses Ukraine at this point, the US and the West will take Ukraine, put NATO military bases in Ukraine. Russia will be made to bend the knee, kiss the ring and be utterly humiliated and subjugated to the West.

That's what all these keyboard warriors and #StandWithUkraine don't have a clue about.

Putin sees the West as a bully, immoral, wicked and decadent. He said so in his speech that the morals of the West are degenerate and that no nation on the Earth has survived long with those degenerate morals. He is referring specifically to our support of and encouragement of LGBTQ+.

For Putin, if he loses Ukraine he sees his country, his heritage, his culture overwhelmed by Western military and Western values where men put on lipstick, dresses and are called as military generals.

There is no doubt in my mind; if we push him, he absolutely will execute first strike nuclear weapon capability.

[spiritMan]

Man. This is insane. I suppose we’ve always known things will eventually get this way even if this is not the moment

Russia doesn't respect the West and it's degenerate values and neither does China.

China is waiting in the wings. That's one ace up the sleeve. Things have the potential to go really, really bad. The BEST thing that could happen is that the US makes show but ultimately lets Russia take Ukraine. China will also take Taiwan . . .again we should just make show and let them take it and then see how things shake out.

It's unfortunate, but the US is NOT playing from a position of strength here. We don't manufacture jack at home. We import everything, we export dollars.

If we let China and Russia do their thing, the US dollar will probably take a hit but there is a chance that the US dollar will still come out on top. However, if we get into it with China and Russia, we have the double problem two nuclear powers going at it and then it becomes an existential crisis for the US.

Because IF the US loses to China and Russia directly . . .the US dollar is absolutely toast and if the dollar goes . . .God help us all in this country-it will be such a scene of war an bloodshed. It will be a total breakdown of society.

[NeveR]

Man. This is insane. I suppose we’ve always known things will eventually get this way even if this is not the moment

Russia doesn't respect the West and it's degenerate values and neither does China.

China is waiting in the wings. That's one ace up the sleeve. Things have the potential to go really, really bad. The BEST thing that could happen is that the US makes show but ultimately lets Russia take Ukraine. China will also take Taiwan . . .again we should just make show and let them take it and then see how things shake out.

It's unfortunate, but the US is NOT playing from a position of strength here. We don't manufacture jack at home. We import everything, we export dollars.

If we let China and Russia do their thing, the US dollar will probably take a hit but there is a chance that the US dollar will still come out on top. However, if we get into it with China and Russia, we have the double problem two nuclear powers going at it and then it becomes an existential crisis for the US.

Because IF the US loses to China and Russia directly . . .the US dollar is absolutely toast and if the dollar goes . . .God help us all in this country-it will be such a scene of war an bloodshed. It will be a total breakdown of society.

NATO has said it has no intention of getting involved in Ukraine, and the administration has pretty much said the same. I agree anything else would be crazy. We have no business in Europe at all. We're broke. If our politicians cared about America at all they'd shut down most foreign bases and focus on fixing OUR problems.

[Robin Hood]

The "first use" of nuclear weapons has been the adopted NATO position for 60 years. This is why NATO were not particularly concerned that the Warsaw Pact had more military personnel, more tanks, more planes, more guns etc. In any incursion into western Europe by the Soviets the plan was to call Moscow and tell them we were going to nuke them if they didn't stop. If they didn't immediately cease we would nuke a remote military target somewhere deep in the Soviet Union to demonstrate that we were both serious and determined. It was hoped this would bring them to their senses.
It always struck me as being a little risky.

[spiritMan]

Man. This is insane. I suppose we’ve always known things will eventually get this way even if this is not the moment

To add on to the manufacture point. Here is why if we push, a first strike nuke is on the table.

The US has a huge military . . sitting at military bases. First strike to all those military bases . . . with hypersonic nuclear weapons (6-7x the speed of sound). That's about 4000 mph . . .from submarines in international waters. Even if it's from mainland. That's maybe 2 hours and if it's from subs . . .

Let's say you have a first strike that nukes and takes out all the major military installations in the US. There's not THAT many bases in the US, roughly 450 and many of those are not that big. You blow the current military stock (or at least significantly damage it so the US now has say 1/3rd to half left).

How would we rebuild our military inventory? All our chips are produced overseas, we don't have in house manufacturing capabilities. It would take quite a while to get even reproduce modern military hardware.

Yes it would be hell and Putin would know we would retaliate. But you've got China and Russia . . .Both China and Russia could still militarily rebuild/engage if their military bases are nuked. The US . . .

[spiritMan]

Man. This is insane. I suppose we’ve always known things will eventually get this way even if this is not the moment

Russia doesn't respect the West and it's degenerate values and neither does China.

China is waiting in the wings. That's one ace up the sleeve. Things have the potential to go really, really bad. The BEST thing that could happen is that the US makes show but ultimately lets Russia take Ukraine. China will also take Taiwan . . .again we should just make show and let them take it and then see how things shake out.

It's unfortunate, but the US is NOT playing from a position of strength here. We don't manufacture jack at home. We import everything, we export dollars.

If we let China and Russia do their thing, the US dollar will probably take a hit but there is a chance that the US dollar will still come out on top. However, if we get into it with China and Russia, we have the double problem two nuclear powers going at it and then it becomes an existential crisis for the US.

Because IF the US loses to China and Russia directly . . .the US dollar is absolutely toast and if the dollar goes . . .God help us all in this country-it will be such a scene of war an bloodshed. It will be a total breakdown of society.

NATO has said it has no intention of getting involved in Ukraine, and the administration has pretty much said the same. I agree anything else would be crazy. We have no business in Europe at all. We're broke. If our politicians cared about America at all they'd shut down most foreign bases and focus on fixing OUR problems.

That's what they have said officially, but there are rumors that they are trying to work around it being "official".

I mean if each nation "on it's own" decided to send military aid to Ukraine, then it's not "NATO" doing it, right? That's what's going on right now.

Look, people don't get it. We have degenerate leaders. We have leaders who are homosexual, who are trannies, etc. Those are people who are possessed. They are possessed by demons/devils/evil spirits and most certainly by a spirit of delusion.

Putting leaders in charge who either are or are trusting a bunch of deluded, demon possessed, warped-world view people isn't going to go well. Their whole world-view is warped, they will make irrational decisions because they have a warped sense of their own biological/natural reality.

This is NOT good.

[spiritMan]

The "first use" of nuclear weapons has been the adopted NATO position for 60 years. This is why NATO were not particularly concerned that the Warsaw Pact had more military personnel, more tanks, more planes, more guns etc. In any incursion into western Europe by the Soviets the plan was to call Moscow and tell them we were going to nuke them if they didn't stop. If they didn't immediately cease we would nuke a remote military target somewhere deep in the Soviet Union to demonstrate that we were both serious and determined. It was hoped this would bring them to their senses.
It always struck me as being a little risky.

And it was a quid pro quo. You go into Western Europe we nuke you, we go into Eastern Europe you nuke us.

What do you think the US overthrowing Ukraine in 2014 and us pushing them to join NATO is?

[Robin Hood]

The "first use" of nuclear weapons has been the adopted NATO position for 60 years. This is why NATO were not particularly concerned that the Warsaw Pact had more military personnel, more tanks, more planes, more guns etc. In any incursion into western Europe by the Soviets the plan was to call Moscow and tell them we were going to nuke them if they didn't stop. If they didn't immediately cease we would nuke a remote military target somewhere deep in the Soviet Union to demonstrate that we were both serious and determined. It was hoped this would bring them to their senses.
It always struck me as being a little risky.

And it was a quid pro quo. You go into Western Europe we nuke you, we go into Eastern Europe you nuke us.

What do you think the US overthrowing Ukraine in 2014 and us pushing them to join NATO is?

Absolutely.
Instead of anchoring Ukraine to the west by admitting them to NATO, they should simply have admitted them into the European Union. There is no way the Russians could have objected to that to the extent of military action.
But the EU weren't capable of getting their act together to make this happen.

[BuriedTartaria]

Man. This is insane. I suppose we’ve always known things will eventually get this way even if this is not the moment

Russia doesn't respect the West and it's degenerate values and neither does China.

China is waiting in the wings. That's one ace up the sleeve. Things have the potential to go really, really bad. The BEST thing that could happen is that the US makes show but ultimately lets Russia take Ukraine. China will also take Taiwan . . .again we should just make show and let them take it and then see how things shake out.

It's unfortunate, but the US is NOT playing from a position of strength here. We don't manufacture jack at home. We import everything, we export dollars.

You mean to say that the takeover of American society by progressive liberals in big business, politics and entertainment has not cultivated a strong country that is respected and feared? You're completely right and I hope every moderate that was and has been a progressive politics sympathizer throughout their life remembers the role they played in destroying the United States in the years to come. The beasts in the Book of Revelation can smell blood. God warned us over and over.

To be fair, certainly hypocrisy in the behavior of people who proclaimed to stand for the US Constitution (that by following it, we may have been protected from destruction from within and without) and the Christian values these lands are ordained to follow also played a role in us reaching this point.



And is Putin lying here?

Putin justified Thursday’s drastic action in a televised speech claiming that Ukraine must be purged of “far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis.” Putin also claimed that Ukraine belongs to the Russian Federation.

“Ukraine is not just a neighboring country for us. It is an inalienable part of our own history, culture, and spiritual space. Since time immemorial, the people living in the south-west of what has historically been Russian land have called themselves Russians,” Putin said.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/russia-t ... e-invasion

Biden and the US are weak so he went for a power grab they feel justified in. It's interesting to me how many people who seem so against a NWO, so against globalism and so against great resets are being such cheerleaders for NATO as if NATO is that much more virtuous in concept to a growing Russia.

[blitzinstripes]

Man. This is insane. I suppose we’ve always known things will eventually get this way even if this is not the moment

Russia doesn't respect the West and it's degenerate values and neither does China.

China is waiting in the wings. That's one ace up the sleeve. Things have the potential to go really, really bad. The BEST thing that could happen is that the US makes show but ultimately lets Russia take Ukraine. China will also take Taiwan . . .again we should just make show and let them take it and then see how things shake out.

It's unfortunate, but the US is NOT playing from a position of strength here. We don't manufacture jack at home. We import everything, we export dollars.

If we let China and Russia do their thing, the US dollar will probably take a hit but there is a chance that the US dollar will still come out on top. However, if we get into it with China and Russia, we have the double problem two nuclear powers going at it and then it becomes an existential crisis for the US.

Because IF the US loses to China and Russia directly . . .the US dollar is absolutely toast and if the dollar goes . . .God help us all in this country-it will be such a scene of war an bloodshed. It will be a total breakdown of society.

NATO has said it has no intention of getting involved in Ukraine, and the administration has pretty much said the same. I agree anything else would be crazy. We have no business in Europe at all. We're broke. If our politicians cared about America at all they'd shut down most foreign bases and focus on fixing OUR problems.

That's what they have said officially, but there are rumors that they are trying to work around it being "official".

I mean if each nation "on it's own" decided to send military aid to Ukraine, then it's not "NATO" doing it, right? That's what's going on right now.

Look, people don't get it. We have degenerate leaders. We have leaders who are homosexual, who are trannies, etc. Those are people who are possessed. They are possessed by demons/devils/evil spirits and most certainly by a spirit of delusion.

Putting leaders in charge who either are or are trusting a bunch of deluded, demon possessed, warped-world view people isn't going to go well. Their whole world-view is warped, they will make irrational decisions because they have a warped sense of their own biological/natural reality.

This is NOT good.

And Putin and his regime are serial killers with a detailed history going back to the KGB. This isn't about moral high ground in our own governments. Russia is as evil as the rest of the world. You're making this sound as if Sodom is any worse than Gommorhah. It's entirely irrelevant to the current situation in which a sovereign democratic nation has been invaded by it's giant neighborhood bully. Thankfully, most of the world is in agreement on that. You act as if this gets better if Putin wins. You deceive yourself. At best, we kick the war can down the road. A few months. Couple years. We face him again later, emboldened and more powerful than ever. Fight him now, or fight him later. Then my grandkids get to fight this war rather than me and my son. That doesn't sound like a better option.

[NeveR]

Man. This is insane. I suppose we’ve always known things will eventually get this way even if this is not the moment

Russia doesn't respect the West and it's degenerate values and neither does China.

China is waiting in the wings. That's one ace up the sleeve. Things have the potential to go really, really bad. The BEST thing that could happen is that the US makes show but ultimately lets Russia take Ukraine. China will also take Taiwan . . .again we should just make show and let them take it and then see how things shake out.

It's unfortunate, but the US is NOT playing from a position of strength here. We don't manufacture jack at home. We import everything, we export dollars.

If we let China and Russia do their thing, the US dollar will probably take a hit but there is a chance that the US dollar will still come out on top. However, if we get into it with China and Russia, we have the double problem two nuclear powers going at it and then it becomes an existential crisis for the US.

Because IF the US loses to China and Russia directly . . .the US dollar is absolutely toast and if the dollar goes . . .God help us all in this country-it will be such a scene of war an bloodshed. It will be a total breakdown of society.

NATO has said it has no intention of getting involved in Ukraine, and the administration has pretty much said the same. I agree anything else would be crazy. We have no business in Europe at all. We're broke. If our politicians cared about America at all they'd shut down most foreign bases and focus on fixing OUR problems.

That's what they have said officially, but there are rumors that they are trying to work around it being "official".

I mean if each nation "on it's own" decided to send military aid to Ukraine, then it's not "NATO" doing it, right? That's what's going on right now.

Look, people don't get it. We have degenerate leaders. We have leaders who are homosexual, who are trannies, etc. Those are people who are possessed. They are possessed by demons/devils/evil spirits and most certainly by a spirit of delusion.

Putting leaders in charge who either are or are trusting a bunch of deluded, demon possessed, warped-world view people isn't going to go well. Their whole world-view is warped, they will make irrational decisions because they have a warped sense of their own biological/natural reality.

This is NOT good.

I think we can assume NATO will definitely 'unofficially' aid the Ukies and also, when the Uke army collapses, fund guerrilla groups etc. Just as they always do. But as long as they avoid direct involvement there's only limited risk of escalation.

There's also a big diff between announcing publicly you'll send aid and then actually doing it. I bet some countries will likely just pay lip service and wait for the Uke govt to surrender or collapse - which probably won't be long in coming.

[spiritMan]

The "first use" of nuclear weapons has been the adopted NATO position for 60 years. This is why NATO were not particularly concerned that the Warsaw Pact had more military personnel, more tanks, more planes, more guns etc. In any incursion into western Europe by the Soviets the plan was to call Moscow and tell them we were going to nuke them if they didn't stop. If they didn't immediately cease we would nuke a remote military target somewhere deep in the Soviet Union to demonstrate that we were both serious and determined. It was hoped this would bring them to their senses.
It always struck me as being a little risky.

And it was a quid pro quo. You go into Western Europe we nuke you, we go into Eastern Europe you nuke us.

What do you think the US overthrowing Ukraine in 2014 and us pushing them to join NATO is?

Absolutely.
Instead of anchoring Ukraine to the west by admitting them to NATO, they should simply have admitted them into the European Union. There is no way the Russians could have objected to that to the extent of military action.
But the EU weren't capable of getting their act together to make this happen.

Both were bad. My goodness why not just let Ukraine be Ukraine either a neutral state or allied with Russia. What is so incredibly bad about that.

This reminds me of King David and Bathsheba. David had all these wives but he got greedy, he couldn't let one woman who looked pretty to him escape so he had to damn his soul to get her.

Does the West really need Ukraine . . .NO! The only reason for the West to get Ukraine is to utterly and completely dominate Russia.

[spiritMan]

Russia doesn't respect the West and it's degenerate values and neither does China.

China is waiting in the wings. That's one ace up the sleeve. Things have the potential to go really, really bad. The BEST thing that could happen is that the US makes show but ultimately lets Russia take Ukraine. China will also take Taiwan . . .again we should just make show and let them take it and then see how things shake out.

It's unfortunate, but the US is NOT playing from a position of strength here. We don't manufacture jack at home. We import everything, we export dollars.

If we let China and Russia do their thing, the US dollar will probably take a hit but there is a chance that the US dollar will still come out on top. However, if we get into it with China and Russia, we have the double problem two nuclear powers going at it and then it becomes an existential crisis for the US.

Because IF the US loses to China and Russia directly . . .the US dollar is absolutely toast and if the dollar goes . . .God help us all in this country-it will be such a scene of war an bloodshed. It will be a total breakdown of society.

NATO has said it has no intention of getting involved in Ukraine, and the administration has pretty much said the same. I agree anything else would be crazy. We have no business in Europe at all. We're broke. If our politicians cared about America at all they'd shut down most foreign bases and focus on fixing OUR problems.

That's what they have said officially, but there are rumors that they are trying to work around it being "official".

I mean if each nation "on it's own" decided to send military aid to Ukraine, then it's not "NATO" doing it, right? That's what's going on right now.

Look, people don't get it. We have degenerate leaders. We have leaders who are homosexual, who are trannies, etc. Those are people who are possessed. They are possessed by demons/devils/evil spirits and most certainly by a spirit of delusion.

Putting leaders in charge who either are or are trusting a bunch of deluded, demon possessed, warped-world view people isn't going to go well. Their whole world-view is warped, they will make irrational decisions because they have a warped sense of their own biological/natural reality.

This is NOT good.

And Putin and his regime are serial killers with a detailed history going back to the KGB. This isn't about moral high ground in our own governments. Russia is as evil as the rest of the world. You're making this sound as if Sodom is any worse than Gommorhah. It's entirely irrelevant to the current situation in which a sovereign democratic nation has been invaded by it's giant neighborhood bully. Thankfully, most of the world is in agreement on that. You act as if this gets better if Putin wins. You deceive yourself. At best, we kick the war can down the road. A few months. Couple years. We face him again later, emboldened and more powerful than ever. Fight him now, or fight him later. Then my grandkids get to fight this war rather than me and my son. That doesn't sound like a better option.

You are a bloodthirsty warmonger and your attitude is why world wars start.

[blitzinstripes]

Man. This is insane. I suppose we’ve always known things will eventually get this way even if this is not the moment

Russia doesn't respect the West and it's degenerate values and neither does China.



China is waiting in the wings. That's one ace up the sleeve. Things have the potential to go really, really bad. The BEST thing that could happen is that the US makes show but ultimately lets Russia take Ukraine. China will also take Taiwan . . .again we should just make show and let them take it and then see how things shake out.

It's unfortunate, but the US is NOT playing from a position of strength here. We don't manufacture jack at home. We import everything, we export dollars.

You mean to say that the takeover of American society by progressive liberals in big business, politics and entertainment has not cultivated a strong country that is respected and feared? You're completely right and I hope every moderate that was and has been a progressive politics sympathizer throughout their life remembers the role they played in destroying the United States in the years to come. The beasts in the Book of Revelation can smell blood. God warned us over and over.

To be fair, certainly hypocrisy in the behavior of people who proclaimed to stand for the US Constitution (that by following it, we may have been protected from destruction from within and without) and the Christian values these lands are ordained to follow also played a role in us reaching this point.



And is Putin lying here?

Putin justified Thursday’s drastic action in a televised speech claiming that Ukraine must be purged of “far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis.” Putin also claimed that Ukraine belongs to the Russian Federation.

“Ukraine is not just a neighboring country for us. It is an inalienable part of our own history, culture, and spiritual space. Since time immemorial, the people living in the south-west of what has historically been Russian land have called themselves Russians,” Putin said.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/russia-t ... e-invasion

Biden and the US are weak so he went for a power grab they feel justified in.

God always knew how this would end. I don't recall any revelation in which the righteous were going to prevent the prophesied destruction of the world. These things are going to happen and we will not stop them. Of infinitely greater importance is our own spirituality. You can't stop the floods, the earthquakes, the wars, or the nuclear wars. The earth is going to burn. No use looking back, like Lot's wife. It's not that agency doesn't exist. It's that He has already seen what we will do. Every word shall be fulfilled. And they shall.

Nothing stopping Putin from launching a nuke whenever he wants/ wanted to. Cowering in fear of his threats is meaningless. And it's no one's fault but his own,if he chooses to push the button. To claim anything else is victim mentality. Don't make your husband angry and he won't beat you....

[blitzinstripes]

NATO has said it has no intention of getting involved in Ukraine, and the administration has pretty much said the same. I agree anything else would be crazy. We have no business in Europe at all. We're broke. If our politicians cared about America at all they'd shut down most foreign bases and focus on fixing OUR problems.

That's what they have said officially, but there are rumors that they are trying to work around it being "official".

I mean if each nation "on it's own" decided to send military aid to Ukraine, then it's not "NATO" doing it, right? That's what's going on right now.

Look, people don't get it. We have degenerate leaders. We have leaders who are homosexual, who are trannies, etc. Those are people who are possessed. They are possessed by demons/devils/evil spirits and most certainly by a spirit of delusion.

Putting leaders in charge who either are or are trusting a bunch of deluded, demon possessed, warped-world view people isn't going to go well. Their whole world-view is warped, they will make irrational decisions because they have a warped sense of their own biological/natural reality.

This is NOT good.

And Putin and his regime are serial killers with a detailed history going back to the KGB. This isn't about moral high ground in our own governments. Russia is as evil as the rest of the world. You're making this sound as if Sodom is any worse than Gommorhah. It's entirely irrelevant to the current situation in which a sovereign democratic nation has been invaded by it's giant neighborhood bully. Thankfully, most of the world is in agreement on that. You act as if this gets better if Putin wins. You deceive yourself. At best, we kick the war can down the road. A few months. Couple years. We face him again later, emboldened and more powerful than ever. Fight him now, or fight him later. Then my grandkids get to fight this war rather than me and my son. That doesn't sound like a better option.

You are a bloodthirsty warmonger and your attitude is why world wars start.

And you're a coward and a communist sympathizer.

[spiritMan]

Russia doesn't respect the West and it's degenerate values and neither does China.

China is waiting in the wings. That's one ace up the sleeve. Things have the potential to go really, really bad. The BEST thing that could happen is that the US makes show but ultimately lets Russia take Ukraine. China will also take Taiwan . . .again we should just make show and let them take it and then see how things shake out.

It's unfortunate, but the US is NOT playing from a position of strength here. We don't manufacture jack at home. We import everything, we export dollars.

If we let China and Russia do their thing, the US dollar will probably take a hit but there is a chance that the US dollar will still come out on top. However, if we get into it with China and Russia, we have the double problem two nuclear powers going at it and then it becomes an existential crisis for the US.

Because IF the US loses to China and Russia directly . . .the US dollar is absolutely toast and if the dollar goes . . .God help us all in this country-it will be such a scene of war an bloodshed. It will be a total breakdown of society.

NATO has said it has no intention of getting involved in Ukraine, and the administration has pretty much said the same. I agree anything else would be crazy. We have no business in Europe at all. We're broke. If our politicians cared about America at all they'd shut down most foreign bases and focus on fixing OUR problems.

That's what they have said officially, but there are rumors that they are trying to work around it being "official".

I mean if each nation "on it's own" decided to send military aid to Ukraine, then it's not "NATO" doing it, right? That's what's going on right now.

Look, people don't get it. We have degenerate leaders. We have leaders who are homosexual, who are trannies, etc. Those are people who are possessed. They are possessed by demons/devils/evil spirits and most certainly by a spirit of delusion.

Putting leaders in charge who either are or are trusting a bunch of deluded, demon possessed, warped-world view people isn't going to go well. Their whole world-view is warped, they will make irrational decisions because they have a warped sense of their own biological/natural reality.

This is NOT good.

I think we can assume NATO will definitely 'unofficially' aid the Ukies and also, when the Uke army collapses, fund guerrilla groups etc. Just as they always do. But as long as they avoid direct involvement there's only limited risk of escalation.

There's also a big diff between announcing publicly you'll send aid and then actually doing it. I bet some countries will likely just pay lip service and wait for the Uke govt to surrender or collapse - which probably won't be long in coming.

Russia isn't going to allow a guerrilla war to start. They already had their Afghanistan.

Huge difference between Iraq/Afghanistan and Ukraine.

Where are the weapons for the Uks to wage a guerrilla war? Where are the weapons going to come from? More importantly, Ukraine and Russia are MUCH closer aligned than US and Iraq and US and Afghanistan.

[Robin Hood]

The "first use" of nuclear weapons has been the adopted NATO position for 60 years. This is why NATO were not particularly concerned that the Warsaw Pact had more military personnel, more tanks, more planes, more guns etc. In any incursion into western Europe by the Soviets the plan was to call Moscow and tell them we were going to nuke them if they didn't stop. If they didn't immediately cease we would nuke a remote military target somewhere deep in the Soviet Union to demonstrate that we were both serious and determined. It was hoped this would bring them to their senses.
It always struck me as being a little risky.

And it was a quid pro quo. You go into Western Europe we nuke you, we go into Eastern Europe you nuke us.

What do you think the US overthrowing Ukraine in 2014 and us pushing them to join NATO is?

Absolutely.
Instead of anchoring Ukraine to the west by admitting them to NATO, they should simply have admitted them into the European Union. There is no way the Russians could have objected to that to the extent of military action.
But the EU weren't capable of getting their act together to make this happen.

Both were bad. My goodness why not just let Ukraine be Ukraine either a neutral state or allied with Russia. What is so incredibly bad about that.

This reminds me of King David and Bathsheba. David had all these wives but he got greedy, he couldn't let one woman who looked pretty to him escape so he had to damn his soul to get her.

Does the West really need Ukraine . . .NO! The only reason for the West to get Ukraine is to utterly and completely dominate Russia.

Ukraine didn't want to be allied with Russia. There is a lot of bad blood. Most Ukrainians threw their lot in with Germany in the last war. Afterwards, Stalin exacted his revenge and millions of Ukranians died.
It is perfectly possible for a neutral country to be in the EU - eg. Ireland, Austria, Sweden, Finland.

[1775peasant]

Clinton signed PDD 60 into effect……an no President since has rescinded it..

if u don’t know what it is, u might wanna?

[spiritMan]

Man. This is insane. I suppose we’ve always known things will eventually get this way even if this is not the moment

Russia doesn't respect the West and it's degenerate values and neither does China.



China is waiting in the wings. That's one ace up the sleeve. Things have the potential to go really, really bad. The BEST thing that could happen is that the US makes show but ultimately lets Russia take Ukraine. China will also take Taiwan . . .again we should just make show and let them take it and then see how things shake out.

It's unfortunate, but the US is NOT playing from a position of strength here. We don't manufacture jack at home. We import everything, we export dollars.

You mean to say that the takeover of American society by progressive liberals in big business, politics and entertainment has not cultivated a strong country that is respected and feared? You're completely right and I hope every moderate that was and has been a progressive politics sympathizer throughout their life remembers the role they played in destroying the United States in the years to come. The beasts in the Book of Revelation can smell blood. God warned us over and over.

To be fair, certainly hypocrisy in the behavior of people who proclaimed to stand for the US Constitution (that by following it, we may have been protected from destruction from within and without) and the Christian values these lands are ordained to follow also played a role in us reaching this point.



And is Putin lying here?

Putin justified Thursday’s drastic action in a televised speech claiming that Ukraine must be purged of “far-right nationalists and neo-Nazis.” Putin also claimed that Ukraine belongs to the Russian Federation.

“Ukraine is not just a neighboring country for us. It is an inalienable part of our own history, culture, and spiritual space. Since time immemorial, the people living in the south-west of what has historically been Russian land have called themselves Russians,” Putin said.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/russia-t ... e-invasion

Biden and the US are weak so he went for a power grab they feel justified in.

Cowering in fear of his threats is meaningless.

It's not "cowering" it's called compromise. It's called finding a solution to avoid things.

The West has not given Russia a SINGLE thing. When you are dealing with another nuclear power, that is what you do-you compromise.

USSR puts nukes in Cuba. We say we'll remove things from Turkey if you remove nukes from Cuba. Both happens, problem solved.

With your idiotic reasoning you would have taken us into a nuclear war in the 1960s.

[spiritMan]

And it was a quid pro quo. You go into Western Europe we nuke you, we go into Eastern Europe you nuke us.

What do you think the US overthrowing Ukraine in 2014 and us pushing them to join NATO is?

Absolutely.
Instead of anchoring Ukraine to the west by admitting them to NATO, they should simply have admitted them into the European Union. There is no way the Russians could have objected to that to the extent of military action.
But the EU weren't capable of getting their act together to make this happen.

Both were bad. My goodness why not just let Ukraine be Ukraine either a neutral state or allied with Russia. What is so incredibly bad about that.

This reminds me of King David and Bathsheba. David had all these wives but he got greedy, he couldn't let one woman who looked pretty to him escape so he had to damn his soul to get her.

Does the West really need Ukraine . . .NO! The only reason for the West to get Ukraine is to utterly and completely dominate Russia.

Ukraine didn't want to be allied with Russia. There is a lot of bad blood. Most Ukrainians threw their lot in with Germany in the last war. Afterwards, Stalin exacted his revenge and millions of Ukranians died.
It is perfectly possible for a neutral country to be in the EU - eg. Ireland, Austria, Sweden, Finland.

WRONG. The US instigated a coup in 2014 and installed a US puppet.

I was in Ukraine not too long ago, in the middle of Kiev. We were looking for a good restaurant and saw one called "The Barricade"-it celebrated the 2014 revolution. My wife asked a RANDOM stranger, hey is that a good restaurant.

The response, "bah, it's full of propaganda".

[spiritMan]

Clinton signed PDD 60 into effect……an no President since has rescinded it..

if u don’t know what it is, u might wanna?

Again, Russia and China have hypersonic weapons, we don't. That's a game-changer.