First Presidency Statement on current conflict

[JK4Woods]

I don't want to just criticize them on everything they ever say or do.

But I don't understand why they say they are PS&Rs and that they are PS&Rs for the whole world, but when the world could REALLY use some direction, comfort or some clarity about an issue...they issue statements that sound like they were written by the legal department.

Maybe my question about this is not about them so much as wondering why God does what He does.

D

Yeah.... I’m pretty much convinced God keeps his hands off the steering wheel.

And to not tilt the playing field too heavily toward Him, me thinks God is off the planet for the most part, and it’s angels and spiritual spies who root about seeing what’s going on down here, and who report back to HQ with observed information.

Hence the lag between heinous situations, and blessed relief... takes time (at least as we perceive it in our mortal sphere) for the heavenly spies/messengers to go to and fro, and actually get an audience to present their report, receive further instructions, then get back down here with permission to intervene.

Anyway, just thinking all the “whispering” and spiritual enlightenment we actually hear/feel/ perceive are actually from familiar spirits assigned to us in some way.

I’m pretty sure Elohim and Jehovah don’t pop down for every human scale event, and certainly don’t send messengers to inspire one to find their car keys.

More like the “good spirits” (probably a like quantity as the “third part” cast down from heaven, to present a fair and balanced mortal experience, without undo influence either way, else how could justice rule and mercy have a say..??); anyway, I’m pretty sure the Good unseen spirits tend to congregate around persons making their decisions to keep them on the strait and narrow.

As far as PS&R’s go, it is the disposition of almost all men, to create some kind of action and be “doing something” by “revelation or inspiration”, even when there has been none such at all.

Us modern man, are an impatient lot, and can hardly forestall a week or two in patience, before we figure out a way to get over a hurtle, just to seem to be moving forward.

Just thinking we mere mortals, really don’t need a whole lot of church wide/ worldwide prophetic proclamations.

Basically the whole purpose of life is to get a body, choose the right side, and die in someway to continue on with the journey.

Kind of bugs me how most of general leadership are western trained & deeply schooled in Babylonian success, and those who achieve it are the ones who rise to the uppermost strata and receive adulation from the humbler rank & file down here trying to get thru life.

Many prosperous, important, successful and wealthy leadership push for the express train to the celestial kingdom. By punching our tickets as we proceed along the “covenant path”...(gag)...

Oh, the Church and the Prophets, Seers and Revelators could use their agency to lead forth and call all wicked people to repent, and plainly state they are going to Hell for their current decisions.

Instead, they issue mealy-mouthed statements, while hoping the Babylonian status quo is not shaken up, risking the accumulation of $138 Billion dollars invested in the stock market.

Believe me, I know I am far far away from being spiritually advanced, and often have only a finger grip on the bottom rung of Jacob’s ladder, but at least I know of which wall it rests...

Jesus Christ is the Savior of the all those born into this world who choose Him.

Pretty apparent... the Light of Christ is all around us. Make a couple of faltering steps out of the “other-camps” program, and an unseen cheer squad will rally by your side and help.

No matter how many times one slips up, or does a belly flop into the cesspool of darkness, the cheer squad is ready when we are to help us clamber out of the swamp and stumble toward the Light.

Looking at the whole time span covered by the scriptures, how many real prophets were there...?? And how far apart in years/generations/epochs were they..??

A Prophet called of God is a rare, and extraordinary circumstance. And the message proclaimed is usually tied in someway to turning a preponderance of folk away from the eat, drink and be merry crowd, unto the fold of the Shepard.

What is the title of the world wide leader of the one true church on the face of the earth..??
“President”.

What’s he president of...?? An organization that closely adheres to a western corporate business model.

With boards, org charts, hierarchy, retirement plans, budgets, and more suits than you can shake a stick at.

Needless to say... you can probably tell from this rant, that I have more respect for anyone who with pure heart forms a storefront church, holds services, and serves those who show up.

Not sure there is a lot of extra credit for all the other traipings of large modern wealthy religion.

Well, I’ve dug my hole deep enough for tonight...

[Gadianton Slayer]

Oh, so they’ll express concern for their members in Ukraine but not those in Canada or Australia.

Good grief. They’re on the same team as the ones who started this war.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Do they really need to comment on every single social/domestic/foreign issue that is going on? I mean these are apostles not foreign policy experts.

Wonder why they didn’t comment on Canada or Australia.

Or Trudeau's abuse of the protesting truckers...

Maybe they would tell Canadians to follow their wise and thoughtful government leader.

They did.

[Robin Hood]

I can understand them being deeply concerned.... but "heartbroken"?

The footage of the the little boy that was killed is heartbreaking. I can't stop thinking about it.

There is a charity called Bountiful Children's Foundation (formerly Liahona Children's Foundation), which exists to treat malnourished LDS childen in South America, Asia and Africa. They feed them and privide vitamin and mineral supplements. Some of these children and their families are in dire need. Some die. They are LDS families which the church with it's welfare system and $100 billion has failed.
That is something for the leadership to be heartbroken about.

[NeveR]

I can understand them being deeply concerned.... but "heartbroken"?

Were they heartbroken when the US invaded Syria or Iraq or Libya and killed THOUSANDS or Obama was drone-killing US citizens without trial? Or when we created a coup that brought Nazis to power in Ukraine?

Are they heartbroken about Saudis bombing Yemen with US weapons?

Are they heartbroken about the tyranny unleashed in Canada and Australia?

[inho]

Do they really need to comment on every single social/domestic/foreign issue that is going on? I mean these are apostles not foreign policy experts.

War is a major theme in the Book of Mormon. When an actual armed conflict comes to the home streets of church members, it is worth a comment. They are leaders to a church that has a lot of members in both Ukraine and Russia (most ongoing wars do not touch that many members). Of course they will comment. The comment doesn't have to be prophetic. It is enough to simply teach the correct principles.

[Niemand]

Never mind just Canada and Australia, what about the European Union which some Ukrainian leaders seem so desperate to join and where many LDS live? (And where they keep building temples.)

The commments made by Lithuanian leaders are particularly disgusting.

[Robin Hood]

The commments made by Lithuanian leaders are particularly disgusting.

I must have missed that.
What was said?

[Mamabear]

Do they really need to comment on every single social/domestic/foreign issue that is going on? I mean these are apostles not foreign policy experts.

War is a major theme in the Book of Mormon. When an actual armed conflict comes to the home streets of church members, it is worth a comment. They are leaders to a church that has a lot of members in both Ukraine and Russia (most ongoing wars do not touch that many members). Of course they will comment. The comment doesn't have to be prophetic. It is enough to simply teach the correct principles.

So is freedom in the BOM. But all I hear is crickets.

[Hogmeister]

When the Q15 advocate for gun control I will have my 2nd solid witness.

[Great8]

It’s the church’s deep state I mean legal department that runs the church and the announcements…
I hear that the choir will be singing ‘Imagine’ at conference

[Great8]

These announcement don’t contain any scripture or mention of Christ’s teachings—just like GC.

[JK4Woods]

When the Q15 advocate for gun control I will have my 2nd solid witness.

Watch the Seventy. It is they who will float the trial balloon to test the flavor of the sheep.

I remember E. Bentar coming thru ten years ago. Spoke at our stake conference. There he floated the idea “called as a missionary, assigned to labor here....”. Then went on to say that being called to a mission (isn’t it really just accepting an application, after a bunch of hoops are jumped thru..?), is the important part. Where we serve, not so much.

Thus negating the last hundred years of “inspired missionary calling specifically to serve a certain people in the Lord’s way”.

Yep, the policies change, but the doctrine remains the same. (Interesting how the doctrine is really pretty minimal, and the policy takes the forefront in nearly every emphasis and action.

Yep, the church will stand with gun confiscation “laws” passed by wicked politicians. They will probably even offer ward building parking lots for placing the dumpsters with which to collect hereto legal arms, and now under a deadline to turn them in...

Scads...!! They will of course couch it in terms of “Peace unto all humankind”, and also over-emphasize the BoM burying of weapons of war, and living Christ like.

Completely ignoring wickedness and tyranny by all levels of political leadership.

They will also pull from the Articles of Faith about obeying the laws of the land. With not even a nod toward the realistic fact, that there are oppressors in the world, who hearken to the dark minions of Satan.

[h_p]

When the Q15 advocate for gun control I will have my 2nd solid witness.

Got your gun control right there in the 5th book of scripture:

35.5.5 Firearms and Weapons

Firearms and other lethal weapons are not allowed on Church property. This includes concealed weapons. This does not apply to current law enforcement officers.

And of course, as it always has been and always ever will be, it's strictly a "guns for me, but not for thee" kind of thing: LDS Church planning a new training center in Salt Lake City for its guards, complete with two firing ranges. One of those ranges is a 100 yard rifle range, even. You know, for their tactical response unit.

[Mamabear]

When the Q15 advocate for gun control I will have my 2nd solid witness.

Got your gun control right there in the 5th book of scripture:

35.5.5 Firearms and Weapons

Firearms and other lethal weapons are not allowed on Church property. This includes concealed weapons. This does not apply to current law enforcement officers.

And of course, as it always has been and always ever will be, it's strictly a "guns for me, but not for thee" kind of thing: LDS Church planning a new training center in Salt Lake City for its guards, complete with two firing ranges. One of those ranges is a 100 yard rifle range, even. You know, for their tactical response unit.

I wonder if the 15 have security like politicians and Hollywood.
I had the thought last summer that if our government calls for the weapons of the citizens, that the church leaders will say something like, “follow your government leaders…..it’s necessary for our safety of all to give up some of our freedoms.” I wonder what excuses people will make for them then.

[OPMissionary]

Do they really need to comment on every single social/domestic/foreign issue that is going on? I mean these are apostles not foreign policy experts.

War is a major theme in the Book of Mormon. When an actual armed conflict comes to the home streets of church members, it is worth a comment. They are leaders to a church that has a lot of members in both Ukraine and Russia (most ongoing wars do not touch that many members). Of course they will comment. The comment doesn't have to be prophetic. It is enough to simply teach the correct principles.

Okay, but did they really need to comment on masks, vaccines, George Floyd, Jan 6th, etc, etc, etc? Every media-hyped story seems to be followed by the first presidency signaling they're on the "right side" of things.

What exactly did this press release accomplish? What do any of them accomplish? Nothing new has been revealed, no ground broken. It's just another meaningless corporate gesture and if they stuck to their own lane it would be better for everyone.

[h_p]

I had the thought last summer that if our government calls for the weapons of the citizens, that the church leaders will say something like, “follow your government leaders…..it’s necessary for our safety of all to give up some of our freedoms.” I wonder what excuses people will make for them then.

The excuses would just be variants of what we've been hearing for the last two years, there's nothing new, really:
1. Something, something, liability reasons
2. If they didn't the church couldn't build the kingdom on both sides of the veil
3. God will protect us, you don't need a gun
4. The Anti-Nephi-Lehi's buried their weapons, and we should, too
5. Follow the prophet!

[Mamabear]

I had the thought last summer that if our government calls for the weapons of the citizens, that the church leaders will say something like, “follow your government leaders…..it’s necessary for our safety of all to give up some of our freedoms.” I wonder what excuses people will make for them then.

The excuses would just be variants of what we've been hearing for the last two years, there's nothing new, really:
1. Something, something, liability reasons
2. If they didn't the church couldn't build the kingdom on both sides of the veil
3. God will protect us, you don't need a gun
4. The Anti-Nephi-Lehi's buried their weapons, and we should, too
5. Follow the prophet!

You just prophesied. Lol
I found a clue to add to your prediction…
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/02 ... have-them/

[Subcomandante]

I had the thought last summer that if our government calls for the weapons of the citizens, that the church leaders will say something like, “follow your government leaders…..it’s necessary for our safety of all to give up some of our freedoms.” I wonder what excuses people will make for them then.

The excuses would just be variants of what we've been hearing for the last two years, there's nothing new, really:
1. Something, something, liability reasons
2. If they didn't the church couldn't build the kingdom on both sides of the veil
3. God will protect us, you don't need a gun
4. The Anti-Nephi-Lehi's buried their weapons, and we should, too
5. Follow the prophet!

The sign that people don't feel comfortable in their own houses of worship without a weapon, is essentially a symbol that the covenant people need to repent or face the consequences of a just God.

This can be seen both in the Old Testament with the blessings and cursings on B'nai Israel given by the prophet Moshe, as well as in the Book of Mormon with the end of the Jaredite civilization.

[Mamabear]

I had the thought last summer that if our government calls for the weapons of the citizens, that the church leaders will say something like, “follow your government leaders…..it’s necessary for our safety of all to give up some of our freedoms.” I wonder what excuses people will make for them then.

The excuses would just be variants of what we've been hearing for the last two years, there's nothing new, really:
1. Something, something, liability reasons
2. If they didn't the church couldn't build the kingdom on both sides of the veil
3. God will protect us, you don't need a gun
4. The Anti-Nephi-Lehi's buried their weapons, and we should, too
5. Follow the prophet!

The sign that people don't feel comfortable in their own houses of worship without a weapon, is essentially a symbol that the covenant people need to repent or face the consequences of a just God.

This can be seen both in the Old Testament with the blessings and cursings on B'nai Israel given by the prophet Moshe, as well as in the Book of Mormon with the end of the Jaredite civilization.

We aren’t talking about guns in church. We are talking about people justifying guns being taken away from citizens.
However, if someone chooses to bring a gun to church because they have a conceal carry that’s their choice under the law. It is not something that anyone needs to repent of.

[Chip]

I don't want to just criticize them on everything they ever say or do.

But I don't understand why they say they are PS&Rs and that they are PS&Rs for the whole world, but when the world could REALLY use some direction, comfort or some clarity about an issue...they issue statements that sound like they were written by the legal department.

Maybe my question about this is not about them so much as wondering why God does what He does.

D

A few others have made comments here in the past that God is in charge of "his prophets", so whatever "they" do is really God's responsibility.

This is idolatry. It is we who have the agency to gauge what/who is of God and what/who is not of God. Insisting that these men are real prophets is a huge spiritual snare. It seems to me that, at this point, there is little left to salvage from the Mormon lore that God works through these men. They are on the wrong side of many critical things today. No way you can blame God for this and suppose you're safe because you are still playing along.

Isaiah 44 - The Foolishness of Idols (NLT)

6 This is what the Lord says—Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord of Heaven’s Armies:
“I am the First and the Last;
there is no other God.

7 Who is like me?
Let him step forward and prove to you his power.
Let him do as I have done since ancient times
when I established a people and explained its future.

8 Do not tremble; do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim my purposes for you long ago?
You are my witnesses—is there any other God?
No! There is no other Rock—not one!”

9 How foolish are those who manufacture idols.
These prized objects are really worthless.
The people who worship idols don’t know this,
so they are all put to shame.

10 Who but a fool would make his own god—
an idol that cannot help him one bit?

11 All who worship idols will be disgraced
along with all these craftsmen—mere humans—
who claim they can make a god.
They may all stand together,
but they will stand in terror and shame.

12 The blacksmith stands at his forge to make a sharp tool,
pounding and shaping it with all his might.
His work makes him hungry and weak.
It makes him thirsty and faint.

13 Then the wood-carver measures a block of wood
and draws a pattern on it.
He works with chisel and plane
and carves it into a human figure.
He gives it human beauty
and puts it in a little shrine.

14 He cuts down cedars;
he selects the cypress and the oak;
he plants the pine in the forest
to be nourished by the rain.

15 Then he uses part of the wood to make a fire.
With it he warms himself and bakes his bread.
Then—yes, it’s true—he takes the rest of it
and makes himself a god to worship!
He makes an idol
and bows down in front of it!

16 He burns part of the tree to roast his meat
and to keep himself warm.
He says, “Ah, that fire feels good.”

17 Then he takes what’s left
and makes his god: a carved idol!
He falls down in front of it,
worshiping and praying to it.
“Rescue me!” he says.
“You are my god!”

18 Such stupidity and ignorance!
Their eyes are closed, and they cannot see.
Their minds are shut, and they cannot think.

19 The person who made the idol never stops to reflect,
“Why, it’s just a block of wood!
I burned half of it for heat
and used it to bake my bread and roast my meat.
How can the rest of it be a god?
Should I bow down to worship a piece of wood?”

20 The poor, deluded fool feeds on ashes.
He trusts something that can’t help him at all.
Yet he cannot bring himself to ask,
“Is this idol that I’m holding in my hand a lie?”

[inho]

This discussion has been weird. "Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace", said the Lord. And when First Presidency is actually doing that, people complain. Usually, I am able to understand criticism of FP, even if I didn't always agree, but now I am just puzzled.

[Alexander]

Do they really need to comment on every single social/domestic/foreign issue that is going on? I mean these are apostles not foreign policy experts.

Wonder why they didn’t comment on Canada or Australia.

cuz "muh ukraine temple"

[Alexander]

When the Q15 advocate for gun control I will have my 2nd solid witness.

"35.5.5 Firearms and Weapons
Firearms and other lethal weapons are not allowed on Church property. This includes concealed weapons. This does not apply to current law enforcement officers."


https://www.deseret.com/utah/2019/8/26/ ... arm-policy

[sandman45]

When the Q15 advocate for gun control I will have my 2nd solid witness.

Got your gun control right there in the 5th book of scripture:

35.5.5 Firearms and Weapons

Firearms and other lethal weapons are not allowed on Church property. This includes concealed weapons. This does not apply to current law enforcement officers.

And of course, as it always has been and always ever will be, it's strictly a "guns for me, but not for thee" kind of thing: LDS Church planning a new training center in Salt Lake City for its guards, complete with two firing ranges. One of those ranges is a 100 yard rifle range, even. You know, for their tactical response unit.

So if I came to church with concealed are they going to ask me to go home?