Struggling with your faith?

[BringerOfJoy]

If you are wondering what exactly the Church of Jesus Christ is up to these days, (frankly many of us "stand all amazed,") and if you are wondering about the future of the Restoration, then this conference is for you. THIS WEEKEND. It will be held in the Boise area for those of you that live in the vicinity. If you don't, it will be recorded and a link made available after the fact. If you have relatives in the greater Boise area, you might want to give them a heads up. Registration is required just because of a limited number of seats.

I know there are MANY of you here because I've been here since 2012 when I was a recently returned "senior" missionary. My how things have changed. (Except that I am even more "senior" than I was then. )

There are 6 interesting speakers, almost all of whom served missions, and at one former LDS bishop, and the wife of another who has been a tireless researcher on the subject of Joseph's Polygamy (or the lack thereof). And one who has become quite famous in the Patriot community as a former commander in the recently formed Space Force who wrote a book about Marxism in the military. Oh, and there is that pesky Utah attorney that got himself in trouble over a book on Church History (which seems ever-so-mild given that he was quoting the words of various general authorities, and given what is out there now) back in the 2011-2013 timeframe, which we discussed here ad nauseum at the time.

https://www.rescuingtherestoration.com/

There is apparently also a related book available, which I was unaware of until now so I can't tell you a think about it except it looks like the chapters were written by various people.

[BringerOfJoy]

https://restorationarchives.com/library ... rences.php

^^ The audio for yesterday's "Rescuing the Restoration" conference in Boise is up.

Seriously folks: Come to Christ. Lean upon Him. Obey Him. Gain that oil of the Holy Spirit in your lamps. It's the only way any of us are going to make it through what lies in front of us. The last couple of years should be evidence of that.

[BuriedTartaria]

Wow. I'm a Snuffer believer (I'm probably going to get baptized into the covenant he says God is offering some time this year, I'm slow to commit even though I do believe God has given Denver a message to preach) and was not planning on seeing stuff from restorationarchives.com posted here, lol. I literally did a double-take ("wait, which website am I on?")

I had no idea there was a remnant movement related conference this weekend. I'm familiar with the one coming up in Kentucky in March. I'd love to go, but I can't make it.

Title of Denver's talk: True Blue Mormon; Independent Faithfulness. That sounds exactly where I find myself. I'm not attending church anymore and I don't think the LDS church is where God is progressing the work He was doing with Joseph, but I believe in the Book of Mormon more than ever and I believe Joseph translated it by the power of God more than ever.


Thank you for bringing this to my attention!

[BringerOfJoy]

You are welcome. It wasn't generally advertised except locally in the Boise area because the actual conference was directed towards the LDS church members there in the area, and not so much the "Remnant." But the audio record is available to everyone now.

[BuriedTartaria]

You are welcome. It wasn't generally advertised except locally in the Boise area because the actual conference was directed towards the LDS church members there in the area. But the audio record is available to everyone now.

I love the brave souls you find among Snuffer believers. May God bless them.

[Luke]

Honestly agree with pretty much everything they say at these conferences, by these people... unfortunately the polygamy thing just kills it (that is, they virulently oppose it). If they kept their mouths shut on the subject and were neutral, I would be more open to believing their claims and messages...

[Robin Hood]

If you are wondering what exactly the Church of Jesus Christ is up to these days, (frankly many of us "stand all amazed,") and if you are wondering about the future of the Restoration, then this conference is for you. THIS WEEKEND. It will be held in the Boise area for those of you that live in the vicinity. If you don't, it will be recorded and a link made available after the fact. If you have relatives in the greater Boise area, you might want to give them a heads up. Registration is required just because of a limited number of seats.

I know there are MANY of you here because I've been here since 2012 when I was a recently returned "senior" missionary. My how things have changed. (Except that I am even more "senior" than I was then. )

There are 6 interesting speakers, almost all of whom served missions, and at one former LDS bishop, and the wife of another who has been a tireless researcher on the subject of Joseph's Polygamy (or the lack thereof). And one who has become quite famous in the Patriot community as a former commander in the recently formed Space Force who wrote a book about Marxism in the military. Oh, and there is that pesky Utah attorney that got himself in trouble over a book on Church History (which seems ever-so-mild given that he was quoting the words of various general authorities, and given what is out there now) back in the 2011-2013 timeframe, which we discussed here ad nauseum at the time.

https://www.rescuingtherestoration.com/

There is apparently also a related book available, which I was unaware of until now so I can't tell you a think about it except it looks like the chapters were written by various people.

In other words, it's a Snufferite meeting.
I think most of those who were tempted to jump ship have already done so. I suspect the Remnant's ranks are as full as they're going to get now. Certainly Snuffer's stock has fallen in recent times.
I watched a long interview with him on Gospel Tangents and found him to be quite lightweight.
I then watched a long discourse he gave on the Book of Abraham. Talk about ramble on! The man clearly likes the sound of his own voice.

[BuriedTartaria]

Certainly Snuffer's stock has fallen in recent times.

I do agree that this seems to be the general view but oddly, from what I see, his books seem to be more in demand than ever. That new one he made about Christianity sold out really quick. He was more liked by a broader audience of Mormons when he was just someone providing reformist-analysis of LDS history, current LDS news and offering Book of Mormon commentary. When he switched from that to saying God gave him a message, and the message involves a covenant made in baptism and the opportunity to fellowship among similar believers ("but this isn't a church!", which I agree), as part of something intending to feel like and be as a movement, Denver lost a ton of appeal. Which makes a sincere investigator wonder, if God has NOT ministered to him and given him a project, why lie and say God is using you for some sort of movement at the cost of popularity you had when you used to just make analysis on a church becoming more worldly and letting people know it is possible to have God minister to you? Denver has gained absolutely nothing from making the switch he made.

I honestly think that silently there are more people into him or curious about what he has to say than what is verbally being let out. I think that's part of the reason the SLT did a recent interview with him.

I'm not saying you're wrong though that it feels or seems like his "thing" has gone as far as it will go.

I believe in him but the burden of proof in what he has to say hasn't been adequately met for most people.

He could be deceived, he could be a liar, but I think he is speaking God's truth here: continuing the Restoration has been left for others who are willing to face the disappointments of history.

If the Book of Mormon and the Restoration through Joseph are true, I don't think any advancement on that work, The Work of The Father (continuing the Restoration), is coming out of those SLC offices, that corporation or members who can't see anything other than their official story and walk in the slumber of their message; this is God's plan, just stay in this boat, keep paying your tithing, we're gonna keep building temples, follow our counsel.

Nothing that progresses the promises of future works and events found in the Book of Mormon is coming through those people, that culture, that corporation, that church, those false prophets, and their enablers.

[Robin Hood]

Certainly Snuffer's stock has fallen in recent times.

I do agree that this seems to be the general view but oddly, from what I see, his books seem to be more in demand than ever. That new one he made about Christianity sold out really quick. He was more liked by a broader audience of Mormons when he was just someone providing reformist-analysis of LDS history, current LDS news and offering Book of Mormon commentary. When he switched from that to saying God gave him a message, and the message involves a covenant made in baptism and the opportunity to fellowship among similar believers ("but this isn't a church!", which I agree), as part of something intending to feel like and be as a movement, Denver lost a ton of appeal. Which makes a sincere investigator wonder, if God has NOT ministered to him and given him a project, why lie and say God is using you for some sort of movement at the cost of popularity you had when you used to just make analysis on a church becoming more worldly and letting people know it is possible to have God minister to you? Denver has gained absolutely nothing from making the switch he made.

I honestly think that silently there are more people into him or curious about what he has to say than what is verbally being let out. I think that's part of the reason the SLT did a recent interview with him.

I'm not saying you're wrong though that it feels or seems like his "thing" has gone as far as it will go.

I believe in him but the burden of proof in what he has to say hasn't been adequately met for most people.

He could be deceived, he could be a liar, but I think he is speaking God's truth here: continuing the Restoration has been left for others who are willing to face the disappointments of history.

If the Book of Mormon and the Restoration through Joseph are true, I don't think any advancement on that work, The Work of The Father (continuing the Restoration), is coming out of those SLC offices, that corporation or members who can't see anything other than their official story and walk in the slumber of their message; this is God's plan, just stay in this boat, keep paying your tithing, we're gonna keep building temples, follow our counsel.

Nothing that progresses the promises of future works and events found in the Book of Mormon is coming through those people, that culture, that corporation, that church, those false prophets, and their enablers.

I don't think Snuffer is lying, I think he's deceived.

[BringerOfJoy]

The videos from the conference are all up, if you are visually inclined. (I am).

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... ejG2fiUUdn

[BringerOfJoy]

...
I think most of those who were tempted to jump ship have already done so. I suspect the Remnant's ranks are as full as they're going to get now. Certainly Snuffer's stock has fallen in recent times.
...

Well, there is still more to come from the LDS institution! Keep watching.

But I tend to think that you might be right that MOST of the folks coming into the Remnant are already here. There will just be a slow trickle (internationally, apparently) and that is just fine. I think one of the things that caused so much damage to the early LDS church was when the church incorporated Sidney's large (compared to the tiny group of NY Saints) group in the Kirtland area. Since Sidney was a strong voice, and a "lofty branch" in the new movement, it definitely swayed things in a way that might not have been for the best. It was to cause Joseph grief until the day he died. I've had to overcome my return-missionary "Bigger-is-Better" mentality.

[BringerOfJoy]

Honestly agree with pretty much everything they say at these conferences, by these people... unfortunately the polygamy thing just kills it (that is, they virulently oppose it). If they kept their mouths shut on the subject and were neutral, I would be more open to believing their claims and messages...

That was the hardest sell for me of the things that Denver teaches. I mean how could polygamy NOT be a thing. There were all those affidavits in the late 1800's, and there was that lady (her name escapes me at the moment) whose mother told her on her death bed that she was Joseph's daughter. Who would lie on their death bed? But that was before the DNA tests on that particular line came back, and no, she was not Joseph's daughter. But given the numerous sealings that were taking place, I can only assume she meant her daughter was sealed to Joseph, and perhaps the lady in question wasn't all that fond of her husband/the daughter's real father.

And then those affidavits: I came to understand the political climate that created those signed affidavits--some of whom were from folks that signed previous affidavits saying Joseph was NOT practicing polygamy. Either they were lying then, or they were lying later. And Joseph's whole family (who knew him best?) said early and often. Nope. Not Joseph's thing. SEALING IS NOT SEX.

Look at the legacy of polygamy in Brigham's spiritual descendants. Look at the damage it has caused. Look at Warren Jeffs. I sat down and cried when I heard the stories of those young men and women. The Lord also vouched for Joseph to me when I was an 18 year old investigator to the LDS church. He didn't vouch for any pedophile. Droves of folks will leave the church IF FOR NO OTHER REASON than they do not want to be associated with a church founded by a pedophile. And if folks with your views were correct, they would be right to march right out the door and keep on marching. You can't get good fruit from a bad/lousy/horrible tree.

[Robin Hood]

Honestly agree with pretty much everything they say at these conferences, by these people... unfortunately the polygamy thing just kills it (that is, they virulently oppose it). If they kept their mouths shut on the subject and were neutral, I would be more open to believing their claims and messages...

That was the hardest sell for me of the things that Denver teaches. I mean how could polygamy NOT be a thing. There were all those affidavits in the late 1800's, and there was that lady (her name escapes me at the moment) whose mother told her on her death bed that she was Joseph's daughter. Who would lie on their death bed? But that was before the DNA tests on that particular line came back, and no, she was not Joseph's daughter. But given the numerous sealings that were taking place, I can only assume she meant her daughter was sealed to Joseph, and perhaps the lady in question wasn't all that fond of her husband/the daughter's real father.

And then those affidavits: I came to understand the political climate that created those signed affidavits--some of whom were from folks that signed previous affidavits saying Joseph was NOT practicing polygamy. Either they were lying then, or they were lying later. And Joseph's whole family (who knew him best?) said early and often. Nope. Not Joseph's thing. SEALING IS NOT SEX.

Look at the legacy of polygamy in Brigham's spiritual descendants. Look at the damage it has caused. Look at Warren Jeffs. I sat down and cried when I heard the stories of those young men and women. The Lord also vouched for Joseph to me when I was an 18 year old investigator to the LDS church. He didn't vouch for any pedophile. Droves of folks will leave the church IF FOR NO OTHER REASON than they do not want to be associated with a church founded by a pedophile. And if folks with your views were correct, they would be right to march right out the door and keep on marching. You can't get good fruit from a bad/lousy/horrible tree.

Here we go again with the paedophilia.
Joseph was sealed to Helen Mar Kimball when she was 14 years old. She has always maintained, even when it wasn't fashionable to do so, that he never touched her and that the sealing was for the eternities.

[Luke]

Honestly agree with pretty much everything they say at these conferences, by these people... unfortunately the polygamy thing just kills it (that is, they virulently oppose it). If they kept their mouths shut on the subject and were neutral, I would be more open to believing their claims and messages...

That was the hardest sell for me of the things that Denver teaches. I mean how could polygamy NOT be a thing. There were all those affidavits in the late 1800's, and there was that lady (her name escapes me at the moment) whose mother told her on her death bed that she was Joseph's daughter. Who would lie on their death bed? But that was before the DNA tests on that particular line came back, and no, she was not Joseph's daughter. But given the numerous sealings that were taking place, I can only assume she meant her daughter was sealed to Joseph, and perhaps the lady in question wasn't all that fond of her husband/the daughter's real father.

And then those affidavits: I came to understand the political climate that created those signed affidavits--some of whom were from folks that signed previous affidavits saying Joseph was NOT practicing polygamy. Either they were lying then, or they were lying later. And Joseph's whole family (who knew him best?) said early and often. Nope. Not Joseph's thing. SEALING IS NOT SEX.

Look at the legacy of polygamy in Brigham's spiritual descendants. Look at the damage it has caused. Look at Warren Jeffs. I sat down and cried when I heard the stories of those young men and women. The Lord also vouched for Joseph to me when I was an 18 year old investigator to the LDS church. He didn't vouch for any pedophile. Droves of folks will leave the church IF FOR NO OTHER REASON than they do not want to be associated with a church founded by a pedophile. And if folks with your views were correct, they would be right to march right out the door and keep on marching. You can't get good fruit from a bad/lousy/horrible tree.

Honestly, all the evidence on both sides is totally irrelevant. In fact, it wouldn’t even matter if Joseph wasn’t a polygamist. I KNOW from GOD that Celestial Plural Marriage is a true principle, and the marriage of the Gods. And I will not, no, can not, deny it.

I know many people from Warren Jeffs’ group. I’ve heard their stories. But using those who abuse CPM as a standard for that principle is like using the Catholic Church as a standard for Christianity.

I likewise know people in the other Fundamentalist groups, as well as many independent Fundamentalists (like myself) who are living the Principle and are the happiest you could ever wish to be.

[EvanLM]

Certainly Snuffer's stock has fallen in recent times.

I do agree that this seems to be the general view but oddly, from what I see, his books seem to be more in demand than ever. That new one he made about Christianity sold out really quick. He was more liked by a broader audience of Mormons when he was just someone providing reformist-analysis of LDS history, current LDS news and offering Book of Mormon commentary. When he switched from that to saying God gave him a message, and the message involves a covenant made in baptism and the opportunity to fellowship among similar believers ("but this isn't a church!", which I agree), as part of something intending to feel like and be as a movement, Denver lost a ton of appeal. Which makes a sincere investigator wonder, if God has NOT ministered to him and given him a project, why lie and say God is using you for some sort of movement at the cost of popularity you had when you used to just make analysis on a church becoming more worldly and letting people know it is possible to have God minister to you? Denver has gained absolutely nothing from making the switch he made.

I honestly think that silently there are more people into him or curious about what he has to say than what is verbally being let out. I think that's part of the reason the SLT did a recent interview with him.

I'm not saying you're wrong though that it feels or seems like his "thing" has gone as far as it will go.

I believe in him but the burden of proof in what he has to say hasn't been adequately met for most people.

He could be deceived, he could be a liar, but I think he is speaking God's truth here: continuing the Restoration has been left for others who are willing to face the disappointments of history.

If the Book of Mormon and the Restoration through Joseph are true, I don't think any advancement on that work, The Work of The Father (continuing the Restoration), is coming out of those SLC offices, that corporation or members who can't see anything other than their official story and walk in the slumber of their message; this is God's plan, just stay in this boat, keep paying your tithing, we're gonna keep building temples, follow our counsel.

Nothing that progresses the promises of future works and events found in the Book of Mormon is coming through those people, that culture, that corporation, that church, those false prophets, and their enablers.

he gained nothing? sounds like he has quite a fan club . . . and he continues to wow more fans . . . he stands to lose his salvation by leading others aways from Christ's great church . . .

may God have mercy . . .some people just like lots of friends and fans . . .

[BringerOfJoy]

Luke, Robin & Evan. We will have to agree to disagree. It is--apparently--not for you that I posted. The ones for whom I did, will most likely say nothing because they don't want to risk your ire. But they are here.

And Luke, if that is your witness from God, you should follow it. Follow it to it's logical conclusion. I have no doubt it will be a learning experience.

[Luke]

Luke, Robin & Evan. We will have to agree to disagree. It is--apparently--not for you that I posted. The ones for whom I did, will most likely say nothing because they don't want to risk your ire. But they are here.

Trust me, no-one risks anyone’s “ire” by being against Celestial Plural Marriage on this forum.

[BringerOfJoy]

Luke, Robin & Evan. We will have to agree to disagree. It is--apparently--not for you that I posted. The ones for whom I did, will most likely say nothing because they don't want to risk your ire. But they are here.

Trust me, no-one risks anyone’s “ire” by being against Celestial Plural Marriage on this forum.

We were posting at the same time, but that is evidence of the transition this forum is making. When I first came here, there were a couple of loud female voices that opposed it, and wouldn't have cared if God Himself stood in front of them and told them it was a true principle. But the general leanings back then were aligned with your current ones. If they weren't practicing it already, they were looking forward to it's eternal practice. But things change . . .

Honestly, back in 2012, I might have thought that with the changes in marriage laws that were and are happening, the church would be pressing to reinstitute polygamy. And, back then, I was seeing a lot of rumblings to that effect here, and formerly, on AVOW. How can you legally say that you can't practice polygamy when you can marry your roommate, your dog, whatever. But the church seems to be moving in quite a different direction. Having spent my childhood as an Episcopalian with a lot of Roman Catholic friends, I find the progression to be an interesting one.

And edited to add: While I may hate polygamy at this point. I don't hate on polygamists. I have friends that are--and I don't envy them. I know they THOUGHT they were doing the right thing at the time.

[darknesstolight]

Honestly agree with pretty much everything they say at these conferences, by these people... unfortunately the polygamy thing just kills it (that is, they virulently oppose it). If they kept their mouths shut on the subject and were neutral, I would be more open to believing their claims and messages...

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but it sounds like you have an idol in the form of polygamy

Like this is what I read:

It all sounds good and true and I believe it. But I'd believe even more if you didn't hate on polygamy. I might even be interested in joining but that polygamy thing.

I mean if you love it all and sounds great don't let an idea you don't even believe in (not really) stop you. I mean gosh. It's just people who have a different idea. How does it hurt your passion for polygamy?

...

[BuriedTartaria]

Honestly agree with pretty much everything they say at these conferences, by these people... unfortunately the polygamy thing just kills it (that is, they virulently oppose it). If they kept their mouths shut on the subject and were neutral, I would be more open to believing their claims and messages...

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but it sounds like you have an idol in the form of polygamy

Like this is what I read:

It all sounds good and true and I believe it. But I'd believe even more if you didn't hate on polygamy. I might even be interested in joining but that polygamy thing.

I mean if you love it all and sounds great don't let an idea you don't even believe in (not really) stop you. I mean gosh. It's just people who have a different idea. How does it hurt your passion for polygamy?

...

We're anti-polygamy in the Remnant movement. We would view pro-polygamists as poisoning the vineyard. Someone practicing it with no desire to repent would not be welcomed. It's like water and oil, they repel one another, they don't mix. What would a pro-polygamist want to be there for? We aren't showing up to polygamist colonies and asking them to take us in and let us teach our monogamist views and message among their established communities.

God has all the power in existence to provide the world with a prophet providing prophetic fruit that reiterates the truth of polygamy, clearing up the confusion on it, prophetically teaching how the LDS lost their way abandoning it and leading the Restoration anew as a messenger on God's errand. This simply isn't happening. Or at the very least it hasn't happened yet and I don't believe it will but if a messenger had actual fruit to examine, I'd examine it.


Fruit is what led me to Denver's message. I saw I had ran through any and all fruit in the LDS church and the biggest fruit (the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith) does not belong to them and those things condemn their corporation. Denver had a message for me to study, ponder and evaluate. Alleged scripture, alleged fulfillment of prophecy. Most people would call that scripture fiction (and the fulfilled prophecy interpretations incorrect). And that's totally fine. But there's people that call the Old Testament fiction, the Book of Mormon fiction, etc. It's at least something for me to consider and evaluate. I believe it's true

I believe if polygamy were God's law, a prophet would be sent to mightily, and with authority, teach it to the world or at the very least, the Mormon groups. That hasn't happened. Why would God deprive us, the Gentiles who have the Book of Mormon, (who will likely be among the repentant gentiles among the Lamanite remnant), from receiving a prophetic messenger who could teach us with authority the beauty of the families and connections that come from polygamy? It isn't happening. It hasn't happened.


I've said before, that to me, Snuffer's message is just about the only thing that feels alive in the world of Mormonism (there is a movement of people keeping the Book of Mormon and tossing out the PSR message that is alive and growing, and completely unrelated to Snuffer, I acknowledge that and love to see it). And what is his message? Why is it happening now? Why isn't their a successful polygamist-Snuffer alternative out there? Why won't God rescue us from our deception with such a revelatory voice? Such a literal servant?

I work a part-time job on the side that has me around people getting home from missions and one of the girls I know in such a situation tells me that on her mission she would stress to people that the church is so much more than Joseph Smith. I would agree with her that the LDS church has indeed reached such a point, but I don't see it as a good thing. This is the narrative they are growing in the LDS church. This is what teenagers and people in their early 20s are being molded to support; the church is far bigger than Joseph, today's leaders are more important.


Joseph literally seered. These other people lie about prophesying, seering and revelating. It is evil. It is apostasy.


The LDS environment feels like it is dying to me. It is a mega-corporate, lukewarm, sugary message of nothing that feels like salt that has lost its savor. They have all the money in the world and are able to and will continue to build their fancy temples. And that's all they've got. Pumping up missions with more missionaries didn't lead to considerable church growth. Conduct from 15 alleged prophets, seers and revelators in a fake pandemic was no different than conduct and instruction you'd get watching CNN. There's nothing spiritual, or prophetic in the moves they make or how they operate. There's no prophetic fruit.

[darknesstolight]

For me personally joining up with the Denver Snuffer church makes no sense. It's like why? Why would I go from one strong man to another? Plus the LDS Church contains all the truth anyone might need to be saved or to be baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost and so much more.

Once you get the Holy Ghost and you retain it you're set for life. You'll learn and understand and get revelation and you'll be inspired and all sorts of things, by and by, of course but sometimes in great burst too. You can't really tell when you get that mighty inspiration or revelation from the spirit.

...

[darknesstolight]

Honestly agree with pretty much everything they say at these conferences, by these people... unfortunately the polygamy thing just kills it (that is, they virulently oppose it). If they kept their mouths shut on the subject and were neutral, I would be more open to believing their claims and messages...

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but it sounds like you have an idol in the form of polygamy

Like this is what I read:

It all sounds good and true and I believe it. But I'd believe even more if you didn't hate on polygamy. I might even be interested in joining but that polygamy thing.

I mean if you love it all and sounds great don't let an idea you don't even believe in (not really) stop you. I mean gosh. It's just people who have a different idea. How does it hurt your passion for polygamy?

...

We're anti-polygamy in the Remnant movement. We would view pro-polygamists as poisoning the vineyard. Someone practicing it with no desire to repent would not be welcomed. It's like water and oil, they repel one another, they don't mix. What would a pro-polygamist want to be there for? We aren't showing up to polygamist colonies and asking them to take us in and less teach our monogamist views and message.

God has all the power in existence to provide the world with a prophet providing prophetic fruit that reiterates the truth of polygamy, clearing up the confusion on it, prophetically teaching how the LDS lost their way abandoning it and leading the Restoration anew as a messenger on God's errand. This simply isn't happening. Or at the very least it hasn't happened yet and I don't believe it will but if a messenger had actual fruit to examine, I'd examine it.


Fruit is what led me to Denver's message. I saw I had ran through any and all fruit in the LDS church and the biggest fruit (the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith) does not belong to them and those things condemn their corporation. Denver had a message for me to study, ponder and evaluate. Alleged scripture, alleged fulfillment of prophecy. Most people would call that scripture fiction (and the fulfilled prophecy interpretations incorrect). And that's totally fine. But there's people that call the Old Testament fiction, the Book of Mormon fiction, etc. It's at least something for me to consider and evaluate. I believe it's true

I believe if polygamy were God's law, a prophet would be sent to mightily, and with authority, teach it to the world. That hasn't happened. Why would God deprive us, the Gentiles who have the Book of Mormon, from receiving a prophetic messenger who could teach us with authority the beauty of the families and connections that come from polygamy? It isn't happening. It hasn't happened.


I've said before, that to me, Snuffer's message is just about the only thing that feels alive in the world of Mormonism (there is a movement of people keeping the Book of Mormon and tossing out the PSR message that is alive and growing, and completely unrelated to Snuffer, I acknowledge that and love to see it). And what is his message? Why is it happening now? Why isn't their a successful polygamist-Snuffer alternative out there? Why won't God rescue us from our deception with such a revelatory voice? Such a literal servant?

I work a part-time job on the side that has me around people getting home from messages and one of the girls I know in such a situation tells me that she would stress to people that the church is so much more than Joseph Smith. I would agree with her that the LDS church has indeed reached such a point, but I don't see it as a good thing. This is the narrative they are growing in the LDS church. This is what teenagers and people in their early 20s are being molded to support; the church is far bigger than Joseph, today's leaders are more important.


Joseph literally seered. These other people lie about prophesying, seering and revelating. It is evil. It is apostasy.


The LDS environment feels like it is dying to me. It is a mega-corporate, lukewarm, sugary message of nothing that feels like salt that has lost its savor. They have all the money in the world and are able to and will continue to build their fancy temples. And that's all they've got. Pumping up missions with more missionaries didn't lead to considerable church growth. Conduct from 15 alleged prophets, seers and revelators in a fake pandemic was no different than conduct and instruction you'd get watching CNN. There's nothing spiritual, or prophetic in the moves they make or how they operate. There's no prophetic fruit.

Oh you wouldn't even have him? You consider him poison?

Like I said sounds like the same ol same ol but OK.

I disagree with polygamy in general and in particular as it was practiced by BY but I'd have no issues associating with him and allowing his ideas to be stated and heard.

Larsen kinda mocked the whole idea of "prescribed answer " or correlated conclusions. Maybe much more broad and wide yet it looks like there is a fence or a place where you have to accept the groups conclusion or you're out.

...

[BuriedTartaria]

Oh you wouldn't even have him? You consider him poison?

Like I said sounds like the same ol same ol but OK.

I disagree with polygamy in general and in particular as it was practiced by BY but I'd have no issues associating with him and allowing his ideas to be stated and heard.

Larsen kinda mocked the whole idea of "prescribed answer " or correlated conclusions. Maybe much more broad and wide yet it looks like there is a fence or a place where you have to accept the groups conclusion or you're out.

...

You should practice what you preach and open up your home to people who think the Book of Mormon is fiction, or that the divine Christ is a myth, or engage in and believe in sexual activity you find damaging to society. Practice what you preach. Let anyone into your most intimate connections and social circles who has any and all opinions, including those you find damaging, evil, divisive, etc. Stop judging. No fence. Let everyone in. You practice what you preach.

Everyone, including God, has truths they adhere to. It is absolutely doctrinal that poisoning the vineyard is an issue, over and over and over again. How often did the Lord warn Joseph of their group being overrun with evil? How often has God attempted to pull people away from sinful ideology? You do not understand the scriptures. You clearly don't.

While you are on your high-horse, you should lecture Christ about that parable of his where certain bridesmaids were not allowed to the wedding. How dare Christ teach something like that right? Everyone is always allowed into anything relating to Christ, right?

You should lecture God that it was wrong for him to take Lehi's family away from an apostate society and then remove people in that society again, to keep certain practices away from a group of people, in hopes of a better way of living to occur.

And to top off all of your hypocrisy in judging the message Denver says God is offering, framing it as wrong, while believing in doctrine and scriptural history filled with similar situations. You are defending the LDS baptism in this thread, and by extension defending the LDS church who LITERALLY CAST OUT DENVER FOR "REACHING A DIFFERENT CONCLUSION".

You do NOT understand the scriptures.

[darknesstolight]

Oh you wouldn't even have him? You consider him poison?

Like I said sounds like the same ol same ol but OK.

I disagree with polygamy in general and in particular as it was practiced by BY but I'd have no issues associating with him and allowing his ideas to be stated and heard.

Larsen kinda mocked the whole idea of "prescribed answer " or correlated conclusions. Maybe much more broad and wide yet it looks like there is a fence or a place where you have to accept the groups conclusion or you're out.

...

You should practice what you preach and open up your home to people who think the Book of Mormon is fiction, or that the divine Christ is a myth, or engage in and believe in sexual activity you find damaging to society. Practice what you preach. Let anyone into your most intimate connections and social circles who has any and all opinions, including those you find damaging, evil, divisive, etc. Stop judging. No fence. Let everyone in. You practice what you preach.

Everyone, including God, has truths they adhere to. It is absolutely doctrinal that poisoning the vineyard is an issue, over and over and over again. How often did the Lord warn Joseph of their group being overrun with evil? How often has God attempted to pull people away from sinful ideology? You do not understand the scriptures. You clearly don't.

While you are on your high-horse, you should lecture Christ about that parable of his where certain bridesmaids were not allowed to the wedding. How dare Christ teach something like that right? Everyone is always allowed into anything relating to Christ, right?

You should lecture God that it was wrong for him to take Lehi's family away from an apostate society and then remove people in that society again, to keep certain practices away from a group of people, in hopes of a better way of living to occur.

You do NOT understand the scriptures.

Was there something I said that was untrue?

Why do you assume I am not practicing what I preach?

Your group clearly is exclusive. You have your ideas that everyone in your group needs to subscribe to or if they subscribe to certain "unacceptable beliefs" they are are "poison".

It's ironic that Larsen mocked that very thing in other groups while ignoring the same thing in his own group.

...

[BuriedTartaria]

Your group clearly is exclusive. You have your ideas that everyone in your group needs to subscribe to or if they subscribe to certain "unacceptable beliefs" they are are "poison".

God's group is exclusive with truths that everyone needs to subscribe to or if they subscribe to certain unacceptable beliefs they are poison.