Planned Obsolescence for Controlling People

[JuneBug12000]

This is a bit of rant AND a real concern.

Bottom line: You don't have to censor things, you just have to make them obsolete.

I have heard all the arguments for why digital tech is awesome over the years, probably because when I bring it up, people feel the need to defend their choices.

Books: no need to burn them, just stop printing them and delete the digital version when people buy them online.
Online content: delete what you can, bury what you can't.
CD/DVD: label them legacy media and don't support them, even though they are still sold all over and things like Redbox still exist.
Church activities/ministering: no facebook or smartphone app, no access.

On to the rant/explanation:

I won't be upgrading to a smartphone and after years of threatening, it seems like they are actually going to turn off my old flip phones. . . for real this time. (I've been getting fake turn off dates from my provider for like 2 or 3 years, each one passing without anything changing.)

I lazily peaked here and there, but did not find any good solution. I've now started looking seriously and I still haven't found a good option.. They finally added flip phones back for sale at ting, but they all technically have an internet browser. I don't want that for me or my kids. Turning off data on our old phones still made it so we can't get group texts. Unfortunately I have youth and we miss a lot of ward stuff already because we don't use facebook. No group texts means no activities. No good options on amazon either (nokia brick has facebook preloaded and you can't erase it! LOL)

(As a frustrating side note, I also found out this week that no smartphone means no church app to check ministering assignments on. So I had to call the RS President to get mine. It really isn't available on your church account on churchofjesuschrist.org. Why not? Security? Who knows! Keeping up with digital technology is really not necessary for salvation! )

Our one and only laptop stopped playing DVDs and it has had a broken screen for years( long black lines where the liquid crystals have broken from kids being too rough, that we just look past and scroll up and down to read behind, LOL) So I finally consented to buying a new laptop. They don't come with DVD players anymore, which I already knew, so I bought an external DVD player from Amazon at the same time. Tried to plug the DVD play into the computer and up pops a message DVD players are now legacy devices and not supported. Lovely. My son figured out a workaround, but I know this is the last one and I don't know how long it will last.

We don't own TVs on purpose and we use DVDs to provide some safe entertainment for our kids. Now even that is going away.

The irony of posting this on an internet forum is not lost on me, but this is the last and only place I interact with people who are not in my offline life.

All this to say two things:
1. I don't need digital technology to have a relationship with God and I shouldn't need it to be an active member at church. Not just zoom church meetings, but YM/YW, callings, ministering etc.
2. I know I am not alone. As I have looked for offline and low tech tools for years I have seen people all over posting what I am saying here: We don't want the upgraded tech.

Hot water, flushing toilets and a landline and I would be delighted. (Can't seem to find a landline service either anymore after we moved and we only turn on the internet when we use it. It is off at night and when not in use. We bought a phone that sold itself as an alternative to landline, no internet connection. . . it actually comes with its own router, so we rarely turn it on.)

I am seriously ready to just walk away. No phone, no internet, no tracking. I am on the verge of not even care about the electricity anymore. I know a place to get a deep well handpump. I'm looking at a wood cookstove and a propane refrigerator. I have done my laundry by hand more than once when our washers and/or dryers broke.

I like early to bed and early to rise. I like growing food. I would drive a horse and buggy if I could.

I've already heard all the arguments about technology being worth all the hassle for modern medicine and genealogy. I disagree. Completely.

Eat healthy, live well, die well, trust God for healing. . . or not. No need to track me. I am usually at home, working hard and trying to ignore the world going to hell in a hanbasket.

[buffalo_girl]

But then....how will we benefit from your experience & wisdom?

I actually believe that at some point we will find each other. We probably should keep record of how we make do and what we’ve learned works best in our offline lives.

[JuneBug12000]

But then....how will we benefit from your experience & wisdom?

I actually believe that at some point we will find each other. We probably should keep record of how we make do and what we’ve learned works best in our offline lives.

I do use the internet to watch videos to learn how to do stuff that just wasn't passed on. I do wonder though, if I committed to leaving, would God provide people in my life to do the same? Or teach me Himself?

Laundry for example. I saw for years people selling things to do laundry, but when the rubber hit the road I was on my own.

I tried some of the suggestions only to find the best way for me to do it was to use a couple of 5 gal buckets in my tub. I would add a tablespoon of my soap, put in the clothes, fill to the top with water, give it a swish or two and then wait 15 minutes. Then I would kind of plunge and pull with my hands for a few minutes. Then I would dump the water, fill with clean and do the same for rinsing (plunge and pull with my hands) A few rinses and it was clean. In fact, much cleaner than with my washing machine! It was the first time that I realized that washing machines don't really clean at all. I could take my cleanest item fresh from the dryer and wash it in buckets and it was almost as dirty as if it hadn't been through at all!

I did use the black plunger with the ridges sometimes, but it wasn't more efficient. It was nice if I had to clean clothes that were really dirty, like a kid messing their pants.

Other bonus: hand washing takes more of my individual time then dumping in a machine, but it was much quicker in terms of time from dirty to clean. So if I need something quick, a handwash is preferable to the machine both for time and cleanliness.

Same with dishes. It takes less time to wash in a sink of hot water then the dishwasher because I have to rinse them anyway and when I am done washing it is ready to air or towel dry, not an hour or two later in the machine.

(Fun fact: I have 8 kids and I had a newborn the first time I had to wash clothes by hand for two month. So this isn't just for small households.)

Ok, one more favorite:

Budgeting on a lined paper I can get 8 paychecks/4 months worth of bill on one single front and back of lined paper. Less than 15 minutes a week. On the computer I was spending at hour a week at least.

[Silver Pie]

I tried some of the suggestions only to find the best way for me to do it was to use a couple of 5 gal buckets in my tub. I would add a tablespoon of my soap, put in the clothes, fill to the top with water, give it a swish or two and then wait 15 minutes. Then I would kind of plunge and pull with my hands for a few minutes. Then I would dump the water, fill with clean and do the same for rinsing (plunge and pull with my hands) A few rinses and it was clean. In fact, much cleaner than with my washing machine! It was the first time that I realized that washing machines don't really clean at all. I could take my cleanest item fresh from the dryer and wash it in buckets and it was almost as dirty as if it hadn't been through at all!

I did use the black plunger with the ridges sometimes, but it wasn't more efficient. It was nice if I had to clean clothes that were really dirty, like a kid messing their pants.

Other bonus: hand washing takes more of my individual time then dumping in a machine, but it was much quicker in terms of time from dirty to clean. So if I need something quick, a handwash is preferable to the machine both for time and cleanliness.

Wow! This gives pause for thought.

[Niemand]

DVDs? I still watch films on VHS.

[Cruiserdude]

This is a bit of rant AND a real concern.

Bottom line: You don't have to censor things, you just have to make them obsolete.

I have heard all the arguments for why digital tech is awesome over the years, probably because when I bring it up, people feel the need to defend their choices.

Books: no need to burn them, just stop printing them and delete the digital version when people buy them online.
Online content: delete what you can, bury what you can't.
CD/DVD: label them legacy media and don't support them, even though they are still sold all over and things like Redbox still exist.
Church activities/ministering: no facebook or smartphone app, no access.

On to the rant/explanation:

I won't be upgrading to a smartphone and after years of threatening, it seems like they are actually going to turn off my old flip phones. . . for real this time. (I've been getting fake turn off dates from my provider for like 2 or 3 years, each one passing without anything changing.)

I lazily peaked here and there, but did not find any good solution. I've now started looking seriously and I still haven't found a good option.. They finally added flip phones back for sale at ting, but they all technically have an internet browser. I don't want that for me or my kids. Turning off data on our old phones still made it so we can't get group texts. Unfortunately I have youth and we miss a lot of ward stuff already because we don't use facebook. No group texts means no activities. No good options on amazon either (nokia brick has facebook preloaded and you can't erase it! LOL)

(As a frustrating side note, I also found out this week that no smartphone means no church app to check ministering assignments on. So I had to call the RS President to get mine. It really isn't available on your church account on churchofjesuschrist.org. Why not? Security? Who knows! Keeping up with digital technology is really not necessary for salvation! )

Our one and only laptop stopped playing DVDs and it has had a broken screen for years( long black lines where the liquid crystals have broken from kids being too rough, that we just look past and scroll up and down to read behind, LOL) So I finally consented to buying a new laptop. They don't come with DVD players anymore, which I already knew, so I bought an external DVD player from Amazon at the same time. Tried to plug the DVD play into the computer and up pops a message DVD players are now legacy devices and not supported. Lovely. My son figured out a workaround, but I know this is the last one and I don't know how long it will last.

We don't own TVs on purpose and we use DVDs to provide some safe entertainment for our kids. Now even that is going away.

The irony of posting this on an internet forum is not lost on me, but this is the last and only place I interact with people who are not in my offline life.

All this to say two things:
1. I don't need digital technology to have a relationship with God and I shouldn't need it to be an active member at church. Not just zoom church meetings, but YM/YW, callings, ministering etc.
2. I know I am not alone. As I have looked for offline and low tech tools for years I have seen people all over posting what I am saying here: We don't want the upgraded tech.

Hot water, flushing toilets and a landline and I would be delighted. (Can't seem to find a landline service either anymore after we moved and we only turn on the internet when we use it. It is off at night and when not in use. We bought a phone that sold itself as an alternative to landline, no internet connection. . . it actually comes with its own router, so we rarely turn it on.)

I am seriously ready to just walk away. No phone, no internet, no tracking. I am on the verge of not even care about the electricity anymore. I know a place to get a deep well handpump. I'm looking at a wood cookstove and a propane refrigerator. I have done my laundry by hand more than once when our washers and/or dryers broke.

I like early to bed and early to rise. I like growing food. I would drive a horse and buggy if I could.

I've already heard all the arguments about technology being worth all the hassle for modern medicine and genealogy. I disagree. Completely.

Eat healthy, live well, die well, trust God for healing. . . or not. No need to track me. I am usually at home, working hard and trying to ignore the world going to hell in a hanbasket.

My spirit sister! We certainly see things and their importance(or lack thereof) similarly. You're right, there are many Saints ready to turn from this digital age 'Babylon'.
There HAS to be an already established community of Saints that live like this, isn't there??? Unity and community in righteous living and worship of our Lord(similar to the different Anabaptists) would be the ULTIMATE wholesome lifestyle.

[Niemand]

Use pen and paper, meet people in person, use a rock and slate if you have to.

CDs are genuinely old technology. Remember that Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms" was one of the first albums to be big on CD, and that's going back over 35 years.

The real survivor is vinyl. It's beaten off the wax cylinder, the cassette, the CD, the minidisc, the MP3 etc. It was around in primitive form almost a century ago, and can be played without electricity. You can still buy it.

[Momma J]

Feb 2021, the big freeze in Texas, I lost electricity for 4 days. My pipes froze. It took a couple hours to set up a living routine. We quickly went to work warming up a section of the house with the fireplace. I got out the cast iron for cooking and we lit the wood burning bbq. On this I boiled water for dishes. Because we have plenty of supplies on hand, we did not suffer.

It was over 3 months before I was able to get hot water at my kitchen sink due to plumbing supply shortages. So, I continued to boil water and wash by hand. A year later and I have not used the dishwasher once.

I greatly appreciate the information on washing clothes by hand. I am not certain that I am ready to completely unplug from electricity. I do enjoy many conveniences that we have today.

I am fairly confident in our ability to adapt should we lose electricity permanently. Except for running the aerobic system on our septic. That would become a problem. I am not certain of logistics in hand pumping out the tank and do not relish the idea. I guess that is when we go back to outhouses???

[JuneBug12000]

Feb 2021, the big freeze in Texas, I lost electricity for 4 days. My pipes froze. It took a couple hours to set up a living routine. We quickly went to work warming up a section of the house with the fireplace. I got out the cast iron for cooking and we lit the wood burning bbq. On this I boiled water for dishes. Because we have plenty of supplies on hand, we did not suffer.

It was over 3 months before I was able to get hot water at my kitchen sink due to plumbing supply shortages. So, I continued to boil water and wash by hand. A year later and I have not used the dishwasher once.

I greatly appreciate the information on washing clothes by hand. I am not certain that I am ready to completely unplug from electricity. I do enjoy many conveniences that we have today.

I am fairly confident in our ability to adapt should we lose electricity permanently. Except for running the aerobic system on our septic. That would become a problem. I am not certain of logistics in hand pumping out the tank and do not relish the idea. I guess that is when we go back to outhouses???

I would recommend a composting toilet.

We, unfortunately, bought a house with a basement toilet so our septic has a pump.

As a kid we had gravity septic so I didn't think toaask.

[harakim]

Feb 2021, the big freeze in Texas, I lost electricity for 4 days. My pipes froze. It took a couple hours to set up a living routine. We quickly went to work warming up a section of the house with the fireplace. I got out the cast iron for cooking and we lit the wood burning bbq. On this I boiled water for dishes. Because we have plenty of supplies on hand, we did not suffer.

It was over 3 months before I was able to get hot water at my kitchen sink due to plumbing supply shortages. So, I continued to boil water and wash by hand. A year later and I have not used the dishwasher once.

I greatly appreciate the information on washing clothes by hand. I am not certain that I am ready to completely unplug from electricity. I do enjoy many conveniences that we have today.

I am fairly confident in our ability to adapt should we lose electricity permanently. Except for running the aerobic system on our septic. That would become a problem. I am not certain of logistics in hand pumping out the tank and do not relish the idea. I guess that is when we go back to outhouses???

You could go to an outhouse, but if you use cloth toilet paper instead of flushing paper down, then it will probably never need to be pumped. This is much better if you have a bidet of course.

[Hoshi]

This is a bit of rant AND a real concern.

Bottom line: You don't have to censor things, you just have to make them obsolete.

I have heard all the arguments for why digital tech is awesome over the years, probably because when I bring it up, people feel the need to defend their choices.

Books: no need to burn them, just stop printing them and delete the digital version when people buy them online.
Online content: delete what you can, bury what you can't.
CD/DVD: label them legacy media and don't support them, even though they are still sold all over and things like Redbox still exist.
Church activities/ministering: no facebook or smartphone app, no access.

On to the rant/explanation:

I won't be upgrading to a smartphone and after years of threatening, it seems like they are actually going to turn off my old flip phones. . . for real this time. (I've been getting fake turn off dates from my provider for like 2 or 3 years, each one passing without anything changing.)

I lazily peaked here and there, but did not find any good solution. I've now started looking seriously and I still haven't found a good option.. They finally added flip phones back for sale at ting, but they all technically have an internet browser. I don't want that for me or my kids. Turning off data on our old phones still made it so we can't get group texts. Unfortunately I have youth and we miss a lot of ward stuff already because we don't use facebook. No group texts means no activities. No good options on amazon either (nokia brick has facebook preloaded and you can't erase it! LOL)

(As a frustrating side note, I also found out this week that no smartphone means no church app to check ministering assignments on. So I had to call the RS President to get mine. It really isn't available on your church account on churchofjesuschrist.org. Why not? Security? Who knows! Keeping up with digital technology is really not necessary for salvation! )

Our one and only laptop stopped playing DVDs and it has had a broken screen for years( long black lines where the liquid crystals have broken from kids being too rough, that we just look past and scroll up and down to read behind, LOL) So I finally consented to buying a new laptop. They don't come with DVD players anymore, which I already knew, so I bought an external DVD player from Amazon at the same time. Tried to plug the DVD play into the computer and up pops a message DVD players are now legacy devices and not supported. Lovely. My son figured out a workaround, but I know this is the last one and I don't know how long it will last.

We don't own TVs on purpose and we use DVDs to provide some safe entertainment for our kids. Now even that is going away.

The irony of posting this on an internet forum is not lost on me, but this is the last and only place I interact with people who are not in my offline life.

All this to say two things:
1. I don't need digital technology to have a relationship with God and I shouldn't need it to be an active member at church. Not just zoom church meetings, but YM/YW, callings, ministering etc.
2. I know I am not alone. As I have looked for offline and low tech tools for years I have seen people all over posting what I am saying here: We don't want the upgraded tech.

Hot water, flushing toilets and a landline and I would be delighted. (Can't seem to find a landline service either anymore after we moved and we only turn on the internet when we use it. It is off at night and when not in use. We bought a phone that sold itself as an alternative to landline, no internet connection. . . it actually comes with its own router, so we rarely turn it on.)

I am seriously ready to just walk away. No phone, no internet, no tracking. I am on the verge of not even care about the electricity anymore. I know a place to get a deep well handpump. I'm looking at a wood cookstove and a propane refrigerator. I have done my laundry by hand more than once when our washers and/or dryers broke.

I like early to bed and early to rise. I like growing food. I would drive a horse and buggy if I could.

I've already heard all the arguments about technology being worth all the hassle for modern medicine and genealogy. I disagree. Completely.

Eat healthy, live well, die well, trust God for healing. . . or not. No need to track me. I am usually at home, working hard and trying to ignore the world going to hell in a hanbasket.

Have you looked into Clear United phones, they're champions of complete privacy. Their services are only in America atm, but they have plans to expand. https://www.clearunited.com/phone

[BuriedTartaria]

All this to say two things:
1. I don't need digital technology to have a relationship with God and I shouldn't need it to be an active member at church. Not just zoom church meetings, but YM/YW, callings, ministering etc.
2. I know I am not alone. As I have looked for offline and low tech tools for years I have seen people all over posting what I am saying here: We don't want the upgraded tech.

Hot water, flushing toilets and a landline and I would be delighted. (Can't seem to find a landline service either anymore after we moved and we only turn on the internet when we use it. It is off at night and when not in use. We bought a phone that sold itself as an alternative to landline, no internet connection. . . it actually comes with its own router, so we rarely turn it on.)

I am seriously ready to just walk away. No phone, no internet, no tracking. I am on the verge of not even care about the electricity anymore. I know a place to get a deep well handpump. I'm looking at a wood cookstove and a propane refrigerator. I have done my laundry by hand more than once when our washers and/or dryers broke.

I like early to bed and early to rise. I like growing food. I would drive a horse and buggy if I could.

I've already heard all the arguments about technology being worth all the hassle for modern medicine and genealogy. I disagree. Completely.

Eat healthy, live well, die well, trust God for healing. . . or not. No need to track me. I am usually at home, working hard and trying to ignore the world going to hell in a hanbasket.

I'm with you on the general points you're making. We are too reliant on tech. There is an app for everything and society wants you on the app. There is an account and password for everything.

I'm off social media, including facebook. Everyone at work and school uses venmo for digital money transfer. I have no Venmo. I'm always the odd one out when we get money together for lunch or things like that. But I'm gonna stick to my guns and try to stay as far away from reliance on apps and tech as I can. I think our over-reliance on tech has been more harmful than beneficial to society

[tmac]

I like the thoughts expressed here and have been blessed to to be able to function like this to a large degree. But I will say that it is all much easier and much more doable if you are surrounded by a like-minded community, even if very small.

[tmac]

On this whole subject of the joys and blessings of modern electronic conveniences, I can't help but share this little quip.

Yesterday we had a little birthday party in our family yesterday. A good friend of mine showed up who has always been a repository for clever jokes and wise sayings. He had one yesterday that I can't help but pass along.

There was a man, Bob, who received a very alarming text message from his neighbor: “I am so sorry Bob." it said, "I’ve been riddled with guilt and I have to confess. I have been helping myself to your wife, day and night when you’re not around. In fact, more than you. I don’t get it at my place, but that’s no excuse. I can no longer live with the guilt and I hope you will accept my sincerest apology with my promise that it won’t ever happen again.” Bob, in complete shock, didn’t know what to do . . . . Then, a second text came in: “Damn spell check! I meant “wi-fi.”

[ParticleMan]

Have you looked into Clear United phones, they're champions of complete privacy....

"Champions" may be somewhat of an overstatement. GrapheneOS and CalyxOS are more highly touted.

[Niemand]

A people without a history are a people without a future.

[Hoshi]

Have you looked into Clear United phones, they're champions of complete privacy....

"Champions" may be somewhat of an overstatement. GrapheneOS and CalyxOS are more highly touted.

Thanks! That's good to know
Clear's also developed hardware as well as their own OS, it really depends on your needs I guess.

[Niemand]

Transnational capitalism revolves around planned obsolescence, since you continually have to buy the same things over and over. (Not very green despite their claims to love the environment.)

By a lucky coincidence, Communist manufacturing always tended to be shoddy, for a variety of reasons. So while transnational capitalism and Chinese Communism were officially opposed, it was found that cheap and nasty Chinese products fit the bill well. If you have a badly made kettle or fridge made in a Chinese sweatshop, it will become obsolete very quickly.

[harakim]

This is a bit of rant AND a real concern.

Bottom line: You don't have to censor things, you just have to make them obsolete.

I have heard all the arguments for why digital tech is awesome over the years, probably because when I bring it up, people feel the need to defend their choices.

Books: no need to burn them, just stop printing them and delete the digital version when people buy them online.
Online content: delete what you can, bury what you can't.
CD/DVD: label them legacy media and don't support them, even though they are still sold all over and things like Redbox still exist.
Church activities/ministering: no facebook or smartphone app, no access.

On to the rant/explanation:

I won't be upgrading to a smartphone and after years of threatening, it seems like they are actually going to turn off my old flip phones. . . for real this time. (I've been getting fake turn off dates from my provider for like 2 or 3 years, each one passing without anything changing.)

I lazily peaked here and there, but did not find any good solution. I've now started looking seriously and I still haven't found a good option.. They finally added flip phones back for sale at ting, but they all technically have an internet browser. I don't want that for me or my kids. Turning off data on our old phones still made it so we can't get group texts. Unfortunately I have youth and we miss a lot of ward stuff already because we don't use facebook. No group texts means no activities. No good options on amazon either (nokia brick has facebook preloaded and you can't erase it! LOL)

(As a frustrating side note, I also found out this week that no smartphone means no church app to check ministering assignments on. So I had to call the RS President to get mine. It really isn't available on your church account on churchofjesuschrist.org. Why not? Security? Who knows! Keeping up with digital technology is really not necessary for salvation! )

Our one and only laptop stopped playing DVDs and it has had a broken screen for years( long black lines where the liquid crystals have broken from kids being too rough, that we just look past and scroll up and down to read behind, LOL) So I finally consented to buying a new laptop. They don't come with DVD players anymore, which I already knew, so I bought an external DVD player from Amazon at the same time. Tried to plug the DVD play into the computer and up pops a message DVD players are now legacy devices and not supported. Lovely. My son figured out a workaround, but I know this is the last one and I don't know how long it will last.

We don't own TVs on purpose and we use DVDs to provide some safe entertainment for our kids. Now even that is going away.

The irony of posting this on an internet forum is not lost on me, but this is the last and only place I interact with people who are not in my offline life.

All this to say two things:
1. I don't need digital technology to have a relationship with God and I shouldn't need it to be an active member at church. Not just zoom church meetings, but YM/YW, callings, ministering etc.
2. I know I am not alone. As I have looked for offline and low tech tools for years I have seen people all over posting what I am saying here: We don't want the upgraded tech.

Hot water, flushing toilets and a landline and I would be delighted. (Can't seem to find a landline service either anymore after we moved and we only turn on the internet when we use it. It is off at night and when not in use. We bought a phone that sold itself as an alternative to landline, no internet connection. . . it actually comes with its own router, so we rarely turn it on.)

I am seriously ready to just walk away. No phone, no internet, no tracking. I am on the verge of not even care about the electricity anymore. I know a place to get a deep well handpump. I'm looking at a wood cookstove and a propane refrigerator. I have done my laundry by hand more than once when our washers and/or dryers broke.

I like early to bed and early to rise. I like growing food. I would drive a horse and buggy if I could.

I've already heard all the arguments about technology being worth all the hassle for modern medicine and genealogy. I disagree. Completely.

Eat healthy, live well, die well, trust God for healing. . . or not. No need to track me. I am usually at home, working hard and trying to ignore the world going to hell in a hanbasket.

Have you looked into Clear United phones, they're champions of complete privacy. Their services are only in America atm, but they have plans to expand. https://www.clearunited.com/phone

You can't trust electronics to be private, even if they were created with specifically to be private.

[JuneBug12000]

This is a bit of rant AND a real concern.

Bottom line: You don't have to censor things, you just have to make them obsolete.

I have heard all the arguments for why digital tech is awesome over the years, probably because when I bring it up, people feel the need to defend their choices.

Books: no need to burn them, just stop printing them and delete the digital version when people buy them online.
Online content: delete what you can, bury what you can't.
CD/DVD: label them legacy media and don't support them, even though they are still sold all over and things like Redbox still exist.
Church activities/ministering: no facebook or smartphone app, no access.

On to the rant/explanation:

I won't be upgrading to a smartphone and after years of threatening, it seems like they are actually going to turn off my old flip phones. . . for real this time. (I've been getting fake turn off dates from my provider for like 2 or 3 years, each one passing without anything changing.)

I lazily peaked here and there, but did not find any good solution. I've now started looking seriously and I still haven't found a good option.. They finally added flip phones back for sale at ting, but they all technically have an internet browser. I don't want that for me or my kids. Turning off data on our old phones still made it so we can't get group texts. Unfortunately I have youth and we miss a lot of ward stuff already because we don't use facebook. No group texts means no activities. No good options on amazon either (nokia brick has facebook preloaded and you can't erase it! LOL)

(As a frustrating side note, I also found out this week that no smartphone means no church app to check ministering assignments on. So I had to call the RS President to get mine. It really isn't available on your church account on churchofjesuschrist.org. Why not? Security? Who knows! Keeping up with digital technology is really not necessary for salvation! )

Our one and only laptop stopped playing DVDs and it has had a broken screen for years( long black lines where the liquid crystals have broken from kids being too rough, that we just look past and scroll up and down to read behind, LOL) So I finally consented to buying a new laptop. They don't come with DVD players anymore, which I already knew, so I bought an external DVD player from Amazon at the same time. Tried to plug the DVD play into the computer and up pops a message DVD players are now legacy devices and not supported. Lovely. My son figured out a workaround, but I know this is the last one and I don't know how long it will last.

We don't own TVs on purpose and we use DVDs to provide some safe entertainment for our kids. Now even that is going away.

The irony of posting this on an internet forum is not lost on me, but this is the last and only place I interact with people who are not in my offline life.

All this to say two things:
1. I don't need digital technology to have a relationship with God and I shouldn't need it to be an active member at church. Not just zoom church meetings, but YM/YW, callings, ministering etc.
2. I know I am not alone. As I have looked for offline and low tech tools for years I have seen people all over posting what I am saying here: We don't want the upgraded tech.

Hot water, flushing toilets and a landline and I would be delighted. (Can't seem to find a landline service either anymore after we moved and we only turn on the internet when we use it. It is off at night and when not in use. We bought a phone that sold itself as an alternative to landline, no internet connection. . . it actually comes with its own router, so we rarely turn it on.)

I am seriously ready to just walk away. No phone, no internet, no tracking. I am on the verge of not even care about the electricity anymore. I know a place to get a deep well handpump. I'm looking at a wood cookstove and a propane refrigerator. I have done my laundry by hand more than once when our washers and/or dryers broke.

I like early to bed and early to rise. I like growing food. I would drive a horse and buggy if I could.

I've already heard all the arguments about technology being worth all the hassle for modern medicine and genealogy. I disagree. Completely.

Eat healthy, live well, die well, trust God for healing. . . or not. No need to track me. I am usually at home, working hard and trying to ignore the world going to hell in a hanbasket.

Have you looked into Clear United phones, they're champions of complete privacy. Their services are only in America atm, but they have plans to expand. https://www.clearunited.com/phone

You can't trust electronics to be private, even if they were created with specifically to be private.

That's what I think. If someone is selling it, because someone wants it, it can be sold as a lie as easily as the truth.

[JuneBug12000]

Transnational capitalism revolves around planned obsolescence, since you continually have to buy the same things over and over. (Not very green despite their claims to love the environment.)

By a lucky coincidence, Communist manufacturing always tended to be shoddy, for a variety of reasons. So while transnational capitalism and Chinese Communism were officially opposed, it was found that cheap and nasty Chinese products fit the bill well. If you have a badly made kettle or fridge made in a Chinese sweatshop, it will become obsolete very quickly.

Not that I can find it now, but I remember an article from years ago, maybe Forbes?, written for advertisers. It said that more money was to be had by subscriptions than sales and that one would do better to stop selling things like washers and dryers and rent them to people for a small monthly fee and then with the Internet of Things charge for each run. Kind of like an at home laundrymat. Of course, it didn't stop there, they suggested it for everything in the home: even each glass of water from the refrigerator. Pretty distopian. Then later, my mom said that when she went to buy a new car the leases were different and you could basically rent a car from the dealership, switch it out when you wanted and they took care of the maintenance.

What did the WEF say? "You'll own nothing and be . . . "

[harakim]

This is a bit of rant AND a real concern.

Bottom line: You don't have to censor things, you just have to make them obsolete.

I have heard all the arguments for why digital tech is awesome over the years, probably because when I bring it up, people feel the need to defend their choices.

Books: no need to burn them, just stop printing them and delete the digital version when people buy them online.
Online content: delete what you can, bury what you can't.
CD/DVD: label them legacy media and don't support them, even though they are still sold all over and things like Redbox still exist.
Church activities/ministering: no facebook or smartphone app, no access.

On to the rant/explanation:

I won't be upgrading to a smartphone and after years of threatening, it seems like they are actually going to turn off my old flip phones. . . for real this time. (I've been getting fake turn off dates from my provider for like 2 or 3 years, each one passing without anything changing.)

I lazily peaked here and there, but did not find any good solution. I've now started looking seriously and I still haven't found a good option.. They finally added flip phones back for sale at ting, but they all technically have an internet browser. I don't want that for me or my kids. Turning off data on our old phones still made it so we can't get group texts. Unfortunately I have youth and we miss a lot of ward stuff already because we don't use facebook. No group texts means no activities. No good options on amazon either (nokia brick has facebook preloaded and you can't erase it! LOL)

(As a frustrating side note, I also found out this week that no smartphone means no church app to check ministering assignments on. So I had to call the RS President to get mine. It really isn't available on your church account on churchofjesuschrist.org. Why not? Security? Who knows! Keeping up with digital technology is really not necessary for salvation! )

Our one and only laptop stopped playing DVDs and it has had a broken screen for years( long black lines where the liquid crystals have broken from kids being too rough, that we just look past and scroll up and down to read behind, LOL) So I finally consented to buying a new laptop. They don't come with DVD players anymore, which I already knew, so I bought an external DVD player from Amazon at the same time. Tried to plug the DVD play into the computer and up pops a message DVD players are now legacy devices and not supported. Lovely. My son figured out a workaround, but I know this is the last one and I don't know how long it will last.

We don't own TVs on purpose and we use DVDs to provide some safe entertainment for our kids. Now even that is going away.

The irony of posting this on an internet forum is not lost on me, but this is the last and only place I interact with people who are not in my offline life.

All this to say two things:
1. I don't need digital technology to have a relationship with God and I shouldn't need it to be an active member at church. Not just zoom church meetings, but YM/YW, callings, ministering etc.
2. I know I am not alone. As I have looked for offline and low tech tools for years I have seen people all over posting what I am saying here: We don't want the upgraded tech.

Hot water, flushing toilets and a landline and I would be delighted. (Can't seem to find a landline service either anymore after we moved and we only turn on the internet when we use it. It is off at night and when not in use. We bought a phone that sold itself as an alternative to landline, no internet connection. . . it actually comes with its own router, so we rarely turn it on.)

I am seriously ready to just walk away. No phone, no internet, no tracking. I am on the verge of not even care about the electricity anymore. I know a place to get a deep well handpump. I'm looking at a wood cookstove and a propane refrigerator. I have done my laundry by hand more than once when our washers and/or dryers broke.

I like early to bed and early to rise. I like growing food. I would drive a horse and buggy if I could.

I've already heard all the arguments about technology being worth all the hassle for modern medicine and genealogy. I disagree. Completely.

Eat healthy, live well, die well, trust God for healing. . . or not. No need to track me. I am usually at home, working hard and trying to ignore the world going to hell in a hanbasket.

Have you looked into Clear United phones, they're champions of complete privacy. Their services are only in America atm, but they have plans to expand. https://www.clearunited.com/phone

You can't trust electronics to be private, even if they were created with specifically to be private.

That's what I think. If someone is selling it, because someone wants it, it can be sold as a lie as easily as the truth.

Even if the creator believes it's secure and is an expert, that really wouldn't sell me. First of all, a secure phone? That's almost a laughable concept. That phone has to use the cellular network.

[tmac]

I've posted this elsewhere, and it may seem to fit here too It is really nothing more than the scripture-based opinion of a former GA, the likes of which we used to hear a lot more 20-30+ years ago than we do now, but for what its worth. . . .

Living After the Manner of Happiness
by Elder Marlin K. Jensen

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

[dreamtheater76]

It made a huge difference in my life boycotting and giving up on sports. And it's all been positive. I never watch TV and really haven't for over a couple decades.
Maybe giving up on most or all technology would be the ultimate freedom! Haven't tried it yet. At least cell phones are a pain in the ...... I would love to get rid of all cell phones. I mostly use mine so I have my favorite rock and metal albums on hand.

[Juliet]

I think we would all do well with such a dose of thinking going forward.