The elect are not and will not be deceived

[Mamabear]

I’ve been studying the topic of the elect. It’s clear to me that the elect have not been and will not be deceived. The key phrase is “if it were possible.” It isn’t possible to deceive the elect. They are God’s and know his voice.
This is why it’s hard to watch those around us fall for deception, especially in leadership positions. We have been conditioned to believe they are the elect.

“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect.” Matthew 24:24

“For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.”
Mark 13:22

“And ye are called to bring to pass the gathering of mine elect; for mine elect hear my voice and harden not their hearts;”
D&C 29:7

A funny side note is, in Matthew 24:24, Christ is talking about the end time right before He comes. However, if you look at the footnote for that scripture it says, apostasy of the early Christian church. That’s not at all what He was talking about. It’s my belief in scriptures where it refers to false prophets, they try to sway you (in the footnotes) to think that it’s during the early apostasy, when really it’s the later apostasy.

[inho]

A funny side note is, in Matthew 24:24, Christ is talking about the end time right before He comes. However, if you look at the footnote for that scripture it says, apostasy of the early Christian church. That’s not at all what He was talking about. It’s my belief in scriptures where it refers to false prophets, they try to sway you (in the footnotes) to think that it’s during the early apostasy, when really it’s the later apostasy.

Doesn't Joseph Smith - Matthew (in PoGP) make it clear that it talks about the times of the destruction of Jerusalem?

21 Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not;

22 For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.

Also, why do you think this is about apostasy (from early or latter-day church) and not just a description of the general state of the world? Especially since according to your interpretation the elect will not be deceived (and I am not implying that everyone in the church would be an elect).

[Chip]

If the elect cannot be deceived, how come the first presidency has given us this crazy vaxx guidance? Are they not the elect?

[mudflap]

If the elect cannot be deceived, how come the first presidency has given us this crazy vaxx guidance? Are they not the elect?

good question.

I haven't heard any "get your food storage in order" talks since Kimball died, except for that gas-lighting talk back in 2021. So....we don't need food storage anymore, or we don't need to be told anymore? Are they saying that new members that joined after they stopped talking about it don't need to hear it? Meanwhile, the alarm bells and the Spirit is telling me otherwise on the jab, the masks, the debt, and the food storage.

So.....I don't know.

[Original_Intent]

I reject the premise that the elect cannot be deceived. There has been and probably forever will be a debate about the reading "...if it were possible..." a technical reading of current English would say there is an implied "bit it's not [possible]."

The turn of phrase typically just means "will be giving the utmost effort" with no prediction of success or failure.

I think the idea is false because show me one person on earth who is not translated who is not susceptible to deceit. I think it is a part of existence here regardless of how good you are or how connected to the powers of heaven you are. Yes, you can safeguard yourself against catastrophic missteps and deception - but no one is immune imho.

[Fred]

Well, there is the possibility that the Brethren (elect) are not deceived and are following satan, fauci, Schwab, et al, with full knowledge that they are giving up a life with Christ and God, and are fully aware of the consequences of thinking Lucifer had the best plan. In ALL cases, 100% of the time, democrats, Marxists, socialists, and other Luciferians DO believe that Lucifer had the best plan. It is not possible for a socialist to follow Christ without a change of heart. So when you realize that the Q15 are socialists and do vote left and do hate freedom, that if they did think that Lucifer had a bad plan, they would not be following it to the T.

[Mamabear]

If the elect cannot be deceived, how come the first presidency has given us this crazy vaxx guidance? Are they not the elect?

I don't know. All I know is I believe the scriptures.
The elect aren’t deceived by the world, philosophies of men, religion, governments, science, etc. The elect are the meek, humble, poor in spirit, the persecuted.

[inho]

There has been and probably forever will be a debate about the reading "...if it were possible..." a technical reading of current English would say there is an implied "bit it's not [possible]."

The turn of phrase typically just means "will be giving the utmost effort" with no prediction of success or failure.

Much of the Bible is literature, which should not be read in a strict technical way. Let's think of the poetry in Psalms or the vivid imagery of Isaiah or other prophets. Yet many Mormons insist on reading certain passages in strictly technically (and often basing their reading on the English translation of the Bible). I have always found that very weird.

[markharr]

I don't disagree with mamabears interpretation.

"would that" means that Lucifer wishes that he could deceive them.

It is true that anyone can be deceived but the definition of elect according to the topical guide is..


"The elect are those who love God with all their hearts and live lives that are pleasing to Him. Those who live such lives of discipleship will one day be selected by the Lord to be among His chosen children."

In this case, the elect are not deceived because they love God with all their heart.

What is up for debate here is who does God consider to be the very elect?

[Fred]

If the elect cannot be deceived, how come the first presidency has given us this crazy vaxx guidance? Are they not the elect?

I don't know. All I know is I believe the scriptures.
The elect aren’t deceived by the world, philosophies of men, religion, governments, science, etc. The elect are the meek, humble, poor in spirit, the persecuted.

I can't think of a single Q15 that fits the description above in red.

[logonbump]

I believe the men at the top who appear to mislead in the holy city do so by following the Lord and acting as his left arm at the time of the destruction and dissolution of the nations, political and ecclesiastical.

False brethren have long since ceased to reliably build his kingdom and have outlived their usefulness in that and so are, as per plan, fomenting needed division.

Sad to see, but in their compromised state and in the spirit of obedience they do act to prepare the way for the Antichrist (and the Lord). They're mostly righteous, obedient men! Who can fault them otherwise?!? All taking orders, so to say.

[Mamabear]

I believe the men at the top who appear to mislead in the holy city do so by following the Lord and acting as his left arm at the time of the destruction and dissolution of the nations, political and ecclesiastical.

False brethren have long since ceased to reliably build his kingdom and have outlived their usefulness in that and so are, as per plan, fomenting needed division.

Sad to see, but in their compromised state and in the spirit of obedience they do act to prepare the way for the Antichrist (and the Lord). They're mostly righteous, obedient men! Who can fault them otherwise?!? All taking orders, so to say.

I see what you are saying, as this is what Isaiah spoke of, being led and following his left arm or Antichrist. I agree that false brethren are not building his kingdom, because they have “outlived their usefulness” so to speak. That is when the servant, angels and a remnant will gather and build Zion.
When you say they are obedient men taking orders, do you mean orders from the left arm?

[Chip]

I believe the men at the top who appear to mislead in the holy city do so by following the Lord and acting as his left arm at the time of the destruction and dissolution of the nations, political and ecclesiastical.

False brethren have long since ceased to reliably build his kingdom and have outlived their usefulness in that and so are, as per plan, fomenting needed division.

Sad to see, but in their compromised state and in the spirit of obedience they do act to prepare the way for the Antichrist (and the Lord). They're mostly righteous, obedient men! Who can fault them otherwise?!? All taking orders, so to say.

They are using the very phrases of Fauci and Klaus Schwab. It's hard to imagine the Lord told them to speak those phrases, unless he wants people who are obedient to the church destroyed.

[Chip]

Orson Pratt:

"But, it may be inquired, how are the humble, honest souls to discern between truth and
falsehood? Must they be condemned with liars, because they are deceived with lies? We answer,
that all will be condemned who suffer themselves to be deceived: for there is a way for every
person to come to the light of truth; and it is not in the power of the devil to invent lies so plausible
as to prevent the really honest person from discovering the truth that pertains to his salvation. The
scriptures have expressly declared, that "cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh
his arm." Now any person who will put his confidence and trust in popular lies, invented by the
devil to prevent the people from discovering the truth, must rest under that curse, and in the day of
judgment be condemned with liars."

[BeNotDeceived]

If the elect cannot be deceived, how come the first presidency has given us this crazy vaxx guidance? Are they not the elect?

I don't know. All I know is I believe the scriptures.
The elect aren’t deceived by the world, philosophies of men, religion, governments, science, etc. The elect are the meek, humble, poor in spirit, the persecuted.

The most elect of all is the Davidic Servant, and also he is among the most persecuted, being locked away in sub-forum number fifty-seven. Then there are those that see truth via keyword 38ii.

[markharr]

If the elect cannot be deceived, how come the first presidency has given us this crazy vaxx guidance? Are they not the elect?

I don't know. All I know is I believe the scriptures.
The elect aren’t deceived by the world, philosophies of men, religion, governments, science, etc. The elect are the meek, humble, poor in spirit, the persecuted.

I can't think of a single Q15 that fits the description above in red.

I don't know a single person that fits that description. In or out of the church.

That's why I think this scripture is referring to a future time. A time after the members go through much hardship and severe persecution.

That seems to be backed up by the heading for Mathew 24

Jesus foretells the doom of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple—Great calamities will precede His Second Coming—He gives the parable of the fig tree.

[Mamabear]

If the elect cannot be deceived, how come the first presidency has given us this crazy vaxx guidance? Are they not the elect?

I don't know. All I know is I believe the scriptures.
The elect aren’t deceived by the world, philosophies of men, religion, governments, science, etc. The elect are the meek, humble, poor in spirit, the persecuted.

I can't think of a single Q15 that fits the description above in red.

I don't know a single person that fits that description. In or out of the church.

That's why I think this scripture is referring to a future time. A time after the members go through much hardship and severe persecution.

That seems to be backed up by the heading for Mathew 24

Jesus foretells the doom of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple—Great calamities will precede His Second Coming—He gives the parable of the fig tree.

There are people like this all over the world. But since we live in a nation of riches, idols and comfort, it’s a little trickier to know them here but there are some that are humble and meek whose hearts are pure. I agree, there will be a time of severe persecution of the Lord’s people that will purify them.

[Niemand]

My take is that the elect can be deceived temporarily but not in the end up. We have seen this happen recently.

[Gadianton Slayer]

he is among the most persecuted, being locked away in sub-forum number fifty-seven.

Internet forum timeout is persecution?

We've come far, haven't we...

[Lexew1899]

The Prophet CAN be deceived.

Ezekiel 14:9

And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have NOT deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Not is an important clarification in the translation.

[markharr]

I don't know. All I know is I believe the scriptures.
The elect aren’t deceived by the world, philosophies of men, religion, governments, science, etc. The elect are the meek, humble, poor in spirit, the persecuted.

I can't think of a single Q15 that fits the description above in red.

I don't know a single person that fits that description. In or out of the church.

That's why I think this scripture is referring to a future time. A time after the members go through much hardship and severe persecution.

That seems to be backed up by the heading for Mathew 24

Jesus foretells the doom of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple—Great calamities will precede His Second Coming—He gives the parable of the fig tree.

There are people like this all over the world. But since we live in a nation of riches, idols and comfort, it’s a little trickier to know them here but there are some that are humble and meek whose hearts are pure. I agree, there will be a time of severe persecution of the Lord’s people that will purify them.

I actually agree with this comment that there are people in other countries that very likely do fit that description. I just don't know them.


I think the Lord is going to show mercy on the current membership of this church (in the wealthy countries) by putting them through the fire of affliction. Those who make it through with their faith intact will fit that description on the other side of the affliction.


This was actually the one argument for the vaccination that I couldn't refute. I am talking about my inner dialogue here. That I am supposed to submit to the persecution in order to be humbled. Even if it does kill me. The scriptural support for this is the righteous people of Ammonihah who were burned for their beliefs.

I actually haven't prayed about that argument yet because I am afraid of what the answer could be..

[silverado]

I’ve been studying the topic of the elect. It’s clear to me that the elect have not been and will not be deceived. The key phrase is “if it were possible.” It isn’t possible to deceive the elect. They are God’s and know his voice.
This is why it’s hard to watch those around us fall for deception, especially in leadership positions. We have been conditioned to believe they are the elect.

“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect.” Matthew 24:24

“For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.”
Mark 13:22

“And ye are called to bring to pass the gathering of mine elect; for mine elect hear my voice and harden not their hearts;”
D&C 29:7

A funny side note is, in Matthew 24:24, Christ is talking about the end time right before He comes. However, if you look at the footnote for that scripture it says, apostasy of the early Christian church. That’s not at all what He was talking about. It’s my belief in scriptures where it refers to false prophets, they try to sway you (in the footnotes) to think that it’s during the early apostasy, when really it’s the later apostasy.

Another place "If it were possible" is used is Mosiah 29:13, "Therefore, if it were possible, that you could have just men to be your kings..." (then having kings would be ok). We know that only meant 'ideally' and was not what really happened. Might it mean the same thing as pertaining to the 'elect'? Ideally they wont be deceived- but that is not what really happens.

[Mamabear]

I can't think of a single Q15 that fits the description above in red.

I don't know a single person that fits that description. In or out of the church.

That's why I think this scripture is referring to a future time. A time after the members go through much hardship and severe persecution.

That seems to be backed up by the heading for Mathew 24

Jesus foretells the doom of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple—Great calamities will precede His Second Coming—He gives the parable of the fig tree.

There are people like this all over the world. But since we live in a nation of riches, idols and comfort, it’s a little trickier to know them here but there are some that are humble and meek whose hearts are pure. I agree, there will be a time of severe persecution of the Lord’s people that will purify them.

I actually agree with this comment that there are people in other countries that very likely do fit that description. I just don't know them.


I think the Lord is going to show mercy on the current membership of this church (in the wealthy countries) by putting them through the fire of affliction. Those who make it through with their faith intact will fit that description on the other side of the affliction.


This was actually the one argument for the vaccination that I couldn't refute. I am talking about my inner dialogue here. That I am supposed to submit to the persecution in order to be humbled. Even if it does kill me. The scriptural support for this is the righteous people of Ammonihah who were burned for their beliefs.

I actually haven't prayed about that argument yet because I am afraid of what the answer could be..

I think if we do walk through tribulations it won’t be because we took the vax. It will be because we will follow God and won’t trust in any Babylon solution whether for “health”or money or food.

[markharr]

I don't know a single person that fits that description. In or out of the church.

That's why I think this scripture is referring to a future time. A time after the members go through much hardship and severe persecution.

That seems to be backed up by the heading for Mathew 24

Jesus foretells the doom of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple—Great calamities will precede His Second Coming—He gives the parable of the fig tree.

There are people like this all over the world. But since we live in a nation of riches, idols and comfort, it’s a little trickier to know them here but there are some that are humble and meek whose hearts are pure. I agree, there will be a time of severe persecution of the Lord’s people that will purify them.

I actually agree with this comment that there are people in other countries that very likely do fit that description. I just don't know them.


I think the Lord is going to show mercy on the current membership of this church (in the wealthy countries) by putting them through the fire of affliction. Those who make it through with their faith intact will fit that description on the other side of the affliction.


This was actually the one argument for the vaccination that I couldn't refute. I am talking about my inner dialogue here. That I am supposed to submit to the persecution in order to be humbled. Even if it does kill me. The scriptural support for this is the righteous people of Ammonihah who were burned for their beliefs.

I actually haven't prayed about that argument yet because I am afraid of what the answer could be..

I think if we do walk through tribulations it won’t be because we took the vax. It will be because we will follow God and won’t trust in any Babylon solution whether for “health”or money or food.

Burning those people was the Babylon solution. So is killing people with the vax.

[blitzinstripes]

If the elect cannot be deceived, how come the first presidency has given us this crazy vaxx guidance? Are they not the elect?

good question.

I haven't heard any "get your food storage in order" talks since Kimball died, except for that gas-lighting talk back in 2021. So....we don't need food storage anymore, or we don't need to be told anymore? Are they saying that new members that joined after they stopped talking about it don't need to hear it? Meanwhile, the alarm bells and the Spirit is telling me otherwise on the jab, the masks, the debt, and the food storage.

So.....I don't know.

Yes, that is quite a peculiar observation. The church in the years post WW2 through the 1990s sure did focus a lot more on preparedness. (Or prepping, as we geeks like to call it.) And obviously since the second coming didn't happen yet, it stands to reason that we are CLOSER to it now. Closer than ever before. In all honesty, I wonder if it's (almost) too late? It takes a lot of time and money to build a year's supply of no perishable food, let alone finances, supplies, weapons (yes I said it ), not to mention most of the church and the world simply does not possess the knowledge and skillset to survive perilous times. I'm a country boy from a farm, avid hunter and outdoorsman, prepped, firearms junkie, camping fool, eagle scout with a solid construction trades, electrical, and mechanical background, and I worry that I'm not sufficiently prepared and lack the skills.