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Re: The Book of Mormon vs the LDS church / Doctrinal Inconsistencies

Posted: February 4th, 2022, 2:34 pm
by Lemarque
SJR3t2 wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 9:00 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 2nd, 2022, 8:51 am The concept of a "Brighamite" church was never in my lexicon. Now it makes much more sense.
Brigham Young changed just about everything, including the structure the church.

https://seekingyhwh.org/2017/07/04/king-brigham/
https://seekingyhwh.org/2020/06/20/much ... -dc-13240/
Thank you for these links. The thought came into my mind recently that the King Noah story is a foreshadowing of what Brigham Young did. I was going to start a thread on it here, but that blog has much more detail than I would have put together.

Re: The Book of Mormon vs the LDS church / Doctrinal Inconsistencies

Posted: February 4th, 2022, 2:49 pm
by SJR3t2
LostCreekAcres wrote: February 4th, 2022, 9:43 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 4th, 2022, 7:15 am I should also add here, I don't present this list to "condemn" the church (I'll let the Lord do that). I do it so that we can learn correct doctrine and truly follow what Benson's original discoursed was intended to do: "cleanse the inner vessel." We cannot love God and live a lie.
I appreciate having these inconsistencies in a concise list. Your comment, "We cannot love God and live a lie." hits a cord. My family already spends our dollars with businesses that are freedom loving and tries not to give to any that are not. That said, we have been in a real conundrum of late...

Tithing. I have been raised in the church. I have a testimony of the Book of Mormon. Like many of you, I have been chagrined to see the multiple instances wherein the church has (in my opinion) moved left. I struggle, along with many of you, as to how I am to move forward. I love the gospel, the Lord and truth. Recently I was to teach a primary class on Follow the Prophet. I could not bring myself to do it and it pained me. I taught something else that day. I always felt that IF there were ever a call-out of sorts, that I'd be first in line. Now I question everything. We have been awake to our awful situation for many years, but to see these things happening at our church level is hard to swallow. I'm not read up on Isaiah as much as I should be. I have been reading on the marred servant for several months. Trying to understand and have the Spirit teach me. Can someone provide scripture references that best teach the idea that the church would go astray in the end times and that the Lord would provide someone to fix it?

Back to tithing... I have never had issue with paying tithing. However, I now feel that it's supporting that which I am not happy about - the list for those dollars being misspent goes on and on. However, I do take my covenants very seriously that I made in the temple before God, angels and witnesses. How do you come to grips with this? Do we hang on, paying our tithing, hoping, praying, that the Lord will fix it all soon? Or, do we pay our tithing, like I'd pay a homeless dude on the corner - knowing he's likely to spend the monies given to him on alcohol, but giving anyway. I'm due for my temple recommend interview soon. While I don't plan on attending the temple (due to masking... another falsehood) I feel it important to have my recommend. What do I tell the Bishop when he asks if I sustain President Nelson? I'm not sure that I can wholeheartedly do so. I NEVER imagined that this is how it would play out for me. I've been a very strong member my whole life (now in my 50's). The one positive I see through it all, is that I see us not relying on any man, but having to grow my relationship with Jesus Christ. It has pushed many of us to ONLY rely on Him. --- We cannot love God and live a lie.
Tithing is primarily to be given to the poor NOT taken from them which taking from the poor and not giving what is due to them is robbing the poor.

JST Genesis 14:37-39
37 And he lifted up his voice, and he blessed Abram, being the high priest, and the keeper of the storehouse of God; 38 Him whom God had appointed to receive tithes FOR THE POOR. 39 Wherefore, Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED.

https://seekingyhwh.org/resources/tithing/

Re: The Book of Mormon vs the LDS church / Doctrinal Inconsistencies

Posted: February 4th, 2022, 4:51 pm
by Mamabear
SJR3t2 wrote: February 4th, 2022, 8:35 am In JS day, he let the members put him on trail on a church court. Today if you think the leaders are doing something wrong you get ex'd. Something in deed is very wrong.
That video is the creepiest thing ever.

Re: The Book of Mormon vs the LDS church / Doctrinal Inconsistencies

Posted: February 8th, 2022, 8:04 am
by SJR3t2
Mamabear wrote: February 4th, 2022, 4:51 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 4th, 2022, 8:35 am In JS day, he let the members put him on trail on a church court. Today if you think the leaders are doing something wrong you get ex'd. Something in deed is very wrong.
That video is the creepiest thing ever.
and yet people think we should follow him

Re: The Book of Mormon vs the LDS church / Doctrinal Inconsistencies

Posted: February 8th, 2022, 8:08 am
by Mamabear
SJR3t2 wrote: February 8th, 2022, 8:04 am
Mamabear wrote: February 4th, 2022, 4:51 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 4th, 2022, 8:35 am In JS day, he let the members put him on trail on a church court. Today if you think the leaders are doing something wrong you get ex'd. Something in deed is very wrong.
That video is the creepiest thing ever.
and yet people think we should follow him
Exactly.
I feel sick to my stomach that I was asleep for so long and I did not see this. I feel ashamed. I pray God has mercy on me.

Re: The Book of Mormon vs the LDS church / Doctrinal Inconsistencies

Posted: February 8th, 2022, 8:21 am
by SJR3t2
Mamabear wrote: February 8th, 2022, 8:08 am
SJR3t2 wrote: February 8th, 2022, 8:04 am
Mamabear wrote: February 4th, 2022, 4:51 pm
SJR3t2 wrote: February 4th, 2022, 8:35 am In JS day, he let the members put him on trail on a church court. Today if you think the leaders are doing something wrong you get ex'd. Something in deed is very wrong.
That video is the creepiest thing ever.
and yet people think we should follow him
Exactly.
I feel sick to my stomach that I was asleep for so long and I did not see this. I feel ashamed. I pray God has mercy on me.
Sounds like you know what he said is wrong, but perhaps you think he is what he claims he is.

I talk about Cognitive Dissonance briefly in https://seekingyhwh.org/2019/06/09/the- ... -the-same/

In Matt 7:15-20 Jesus teaches us that we shall know prophets by their fruits. Matt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Jesus did not say you shall know their fruits of being a prophet after you believe you believe they are a prophet. On the contrary, Jesus is showing us one important principle of not being deceived. Before you can know that some is the title that they claim to have from God, you must know of their fruits. We must have knowledge of the fruits of the title before we can study it out in our minds before we take it to the Lord for confirmation that the title comes from Him, see D&C 9:8.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2015/10/04/in-h ... yesterday/

Re: The Book of Mormon vs the LDS church / Doctrinal Inconsistencies

Posted: February 15th, 2022, 6:46 am
by Reluctant Watchman
Ok, I was finally able to put together a formal essay exploring how LDS culture often disregards the teachings presented in the Book of Mormon.

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/the-b ... lds-church

Re: The Book of Mormon vs the LDS church / Doctrinal Inconsistencies

Posted: February 15th, 2022, 2:08 pm
by SJR3t2
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 15th, 2022, 6:46 am Ok, I was finally able to put together a formal essay exploring how LDS culture often disregards the teachings presented in the Book of Mormon.

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/the-b ... lds-church
nice little article. I'm hesitant to do just one piece on such a thing because I'm discovering more and more all the time.

Re: The Book of Mormon vs the LDS church / Doctrinal Inconsistencies

Posted: February 15th, 2022, 2:20 pm
by Reluctant Watchman
SJR3t2 wrote: February 15th, 2022, 2:08 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: February 15th, 2022, 6:46 am Ok, I was finally able to put together a formal essay exploring how LDS culture often disregards the teachings presented in the Book of Mormon.

https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/the-b ... lds-church
nice little article. I'm hesitant to do just one piece on such a thing because I'm discovering more and more all the time.
I continually update my research essays as I learn more. I think I've modified my polygamy essay 3-4 times. I just add a new "Revised" date.

Re: The Book of Mormon vs the LDS church / Doctrinal Inconsistencies

Posted: October 9th, 2023, 12:31 pm
by Reluctant Watchman
I recently updated my list to add numbers 21, 22, and 23. Here's the link:
https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/the-b ... lds-church

Here are the three additions:

———
BoM > The book of Ether specifically calls out Satanic blood oaths being made in the name of God, and that these oaths were handed down from Cain. We should never covenant to kill ourselves or take the life of another for divulging “secret” information. (Ether 8:13-15)

LDS > From the time of Brigham Young, blood oaths, nearly identical to the ones made by Akish, were part of the LDS temple rites. They were changed slightly in early 1920, and even more removed in 1989.

———
BoM > We learn that all who die without the law are alive in Christ and return to live with God. (Moroni 8:22) In the sermon by King Benjamin we learn that Christ atoned “for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them, or who have ignorantly sinned.” (Mosiah 3:11)

LDS > The LDS church now teaches that all mankind must have proxy work done (work for the dead) for all who have died without the law or sinned ignorantly. While there is significance to connecting with our ancestors, the temple has largely become a place of dead works.

———
BoM > Moroni teaches toward the end of his writings that, “by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.” (Moroni 10:5) If that is the case, is there any philosophy the world could throw at you that could not be validated through the workings of the Spirit? No! What this means is the ability to receive personal revelation is of utmost importance.

LDS > The leaders actively encourage members not to discuss their doubts, and that you should not counsel with people whose beliefs differ. If the leaders truly believed in the doctrine of the Holy Ghost, they would teach this repeatedly to their members. By telling them to only listen to them, they are showing an utter lack of confidence in the member’s ability to discern through the Spirit.