LDS Freedom Forum

gruden2.0 wrote: ↑February 28th, 2022, 2:48 pm

I started to wonder if God did have a bookstore on earth, how many of the things we love to read and talk about as though they’re true, would be shelved in God’s bookstore under fiction? When I listen to some people, it seems that COVID isolation and constraints have wreaked havoc with some people’s ability to discern what is true and what is pure fiction, pure nonsense.

if I go to the hypothetical “God’s bookstore,” there needs to be a section for silly, just ideas that are silly. And perhaps these days, we should be looking at the shelf in “God’s bookstore” that would be labeled “looking beyond the mark” because these are amazing days of personal revelation. Personal revelation is crucial so that we can discern truth from error, so we can continue to learn but we need to remember that it is personal. I remember a dear friend to me, teaching me this truth about truth one day and saying, “Just because it’s true, Wendy, doesn’t mean you should say it or write it.” So, there are some people right now who believe they have been taught truths, and I say, perhaps we all need to be like the mother of the Savior, we need to be like Mary, who kept all these things and pondered them in her heart.

God doesn't have a bookstore, but He does have libraries. I've seen them in a couple dreams (maybe more representational, but they exist). I wonder if it occurs to Wendy the difference. Jesus himself said the milk and honey of the gospel could be obtained without price.

I also wonder if it occurred to Wendy how Joseph Smith was treated after his visions by the theologians and learned clergy of his day.

“Just because it’s true, Wendy, doesn’t mean you should say it or write it.

Sometimes I wonder what she (and GAs who have made similar statements) are really saying. "Don't make us feel bad because the Spirit never tells us anything"???

All this tells me is that Wendy has never been in the presence of a true prophet. True prophets cannot be constrained, they MUST speak. There's a reason the Lord had to very pointedly tell Mormon he was not allowed to preach to the degraded Nephites, it was very likely the hardest commandment for him to obey, because he cared so deeply about his people.

...the wheels are falling off the wagon train...just like the Pharisee's who saw their time coming to an end because the Savior did for the people...what they could not.

I believe we are beginning to see the beginning of the end for false prophets and anti-Christ's...not that they will not exist...they will be with us until the very end.

...but it is clear the Lord is causing the eyes of many to open...in spite of the obvious lack of faithful observance and false rhetoric coming from His chosen...

...personal revelation is beginning to shape the ideologies of many...people are beginning to become aware of what type of world we truly live in...despite calls from the Lords chosen that all is well in Zion...

...the angels are beginning to sounds trumpets that can no longer be drowned out by false flags.

...true prophets, seers and revelators will begin to find faith in the Lord and begin warning the people of times of sorrow and tribulation...while false prophets sit idle...unable to raise their false rods of power to deceive...

just like the Pharisees, the Chief Priests, the Elders and municipal leaders of their day refused to acknowledge the power of the spirit of Christ manifested in the flesh before their own eyes....so too and in like manner the false prophets of today...they do not know Christ...they do not seek Christ...they do not testify of Christ...

...the very power base that represented the false prophets and leaders in Christ's day believed that if they could just get rid of the Son of Man...all would be restored and their own seats of power preserved...

What actually happened?...the world was in turmoil...temples, buildings, strongholds were cast to the ground...only then did some acknowledge the mighty hand of God...

...so, ask yourself...what will it take for the once mighty and proud to return to Christ?...

...there will be interesting times ahead for sure...many of our own truths, knowledge, understanding will be challenged...we will even question our own faith...but not because God and Christ are ever changing...but because we are...

...these are exciting times for sure...stay tuned...to the Holy Ghost...pray, fast, meditate...seek Gods face...Christ's glory...and the constant attendance of the Holy Ghost...

...these will lead us to His Word...wherever His word is found...

It's a strange thing... I've noticed more and more that people in the church and especially church leaders seem to use the terms "Lord" and "God" interchangeable. I always thought the term "Lord" references Jesus, while "God" references God the Father. Maybe it's just me... but even many of the qoutes above, Sister Nelson says things like "the Lord shows him exactly what he (Nelson) needs to do or say". Is it not God the Father that gives revelation through the Holy Ghost not the Lord? Again, maybe I'm completely wrong on this, but it seems confusing. I've also noticed in a lot of prayers people will address "the Lord" throughout. As in, "bless us Lord, to have the Spirit in this meeting....". Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but using these terms interchangeably gets confusing.

EvanLM wrote: ↑February 28th, 2022, 5:33 pm did you ever wonder what "magnify your office " really means? Jacob 1:18-19 For I, Jacob, and my brother Joseph had been consecrated priests and teachers of this people, by the hand of Nephi. And we did MAGNIFY OUR OFFICE unto the Lord, taking upon us the responsibility, answering the sins of the people UPON OUR OWN HEADS if we did not teach them the word of God with all diligence, wherefore, by laboring with our might their BLOOD might not come upon OUR GARMENTS;

otherwise, their blood would come upon our garments, and we would NOT be found spotless at the last day.

the responsibility of prophets . . .priests and teachers . . . is it not so today?

That's another good point. The mantle of a man given a prophetic commission is very weighty. Jonas tried to flee it (he thought he was actually helping the people of Ninevah because he didn't think they'd listen, so he didn't want to make them responsible, yet he was obviously mistaken) but the Lord wasn't having it. In the BoM, as you mention, this concept is mentioned a few times. They understood they had a real responsibility and if they didn't do all they could they would be held accountable. I once saw a quote from Eyering (sorry, wish I could find it) where he basically admitted "Whelp, we know very few will make the cut, oh well." Such a defeatist attitude was not shared by the ancient prophets. And they were willing to put their lives on the line and be sent to prison to do their job, telling us how seriously they took their responsibility, and how much they 'were willing to sacrifice.

As another example, Alma could've just remained a chief judge and felt pretty good about himself serving the people in that capacity for the rest of his life, but he stated he couldn't rest knowing there was work to be done, so he resigned to preach. And what was his deepest wish? That he could be an angel proclaiming the gospel to the world (apparently he got his wish). What is Nelson's fondest wish? Make the cash pile bigger?

Do we get the sense at all that the 15 old men in the big building resemble these holy men at all? They all live in their gated communities, having every need cared for, sitting in the chief seats, insisting everyone stand when they enter the room like royalty, and practically never getting serious about preaching repentance and faith in Jesus or putting themselves on the line to do so. Signs followed people like Alma, but only dollar signs follow the 15 today.

Down_the_rabbithole wrote: ↑February 28th, 2022, 6:55 pm It's a strange thing... I've noticed more and more that people in the church and especially church leaders seem to use the terms "Lord" and "God" interchangeable. I always thought the term "Lord" references Jesus, while "God" references God the Father. Maybe it's just me... but even many of the qoutes above, Sister Nelson says things like "the Lord shows him exactly what he (Nelson) needs to do or say". Is it not God the Father that gives revelation through the Holy Ghost not the Lord? Again, maybe I'm completely wrong on this, but it seems confusing. I've also noticed in a lot of prayers people will address "the Lord" throughout. As in, "bless us Lord, to have the Spirit in this meeting....". Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but using these terms interchangeably gets confusing.

Have you seriously read the Book of Mormon? There are many references throughout the entire book that Jesus Christ is the Eternal Father, the creator of heaven and Earth. When we are born again we become sons and daughters of Christ. Christ IS God. Yes, Christ has a father, and Christ has taught that his father gave him (Christ) this eternity, and those of us who are his sheep (New Testament).

Christ was God before coming to Earth as the Son — this is what is meant by His condescension. He is now again the Eternal Father.

Their relationship sounds a little like this. The light's left on. But not so that he can make notes on his "revelations".

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑February 28th, 2022, 2:07 pm CFM is awful. Lots of leading questions and language.

Back in the old days when there was a new manual each year for family home evening, I wanted to do fhe. I was the only kid left at home, so my victim was my mom. I'd be the teacher, study the lesson, then give her the lesson. That danged woman answered the questions how she wanted to answer them (she was thoroughly tbm, btw), and they didn't mesh with the answers given in the book, yet her answers made such good sense that I could not declare them wrong!

It was probably something I needed to be exposed to - that the questions, whether leading or not, didn't necessarily need to be answered the way the correlators intended.

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑February 28th, 2022, 5:38 pm

Serragon wrote: ↑February 28th, 2022, 4:45 pm Our leadership caste consists of a bunch of aristocrats who spend much of their time witnessing to the legitimacy of each other. These witnesses never specify anything specific that was witnessed, just that they "know". You are to take this to mean that they have had a direct confirmation from the Holy Ghost, but this confirmation is also never shared. Curiously, none of these people ever actually witness that they are what the others claim they are.

Outside of these "witnesses" to things not witnessed, the only other piece of evidence is the keys passed down through Joseph. This essentially is a birthright claim. The problem here is twofold. First, we do not exclusively claim these keys nor can we exclusively show that others do not have them. Second, there is no fruit that is exclusive to our church that has grown since Joseph.

imagine I hired a few gardeners. Each had their own plot. One claimed to be THE master gardener and had exclusive right from God to plant and harvest due to a certificate handed down over multiple generations from a previous master gardener.

10 years pass and I note that the master gardener's plot is no different than anyone elses. The only difference are his constant claims that his is garden is actually more productive even though it can't be measured and his inherited certificate.

At some point, evidence is required. Faith requires some substance as a foundation. Faith comes from a desire to know truth and acting on the evidence provided. But blind faith is not faith at all. It comes from fear, pride, and/or sloth. Its foundation is the desire to not be wrong rather than submission to truth.

It is getting tiring to see this constant parade of tightly coordinated curriculum, heavily orchestrated leadership statements and broadcasts, doctrinal changes that match current world trends, and vague generalities that have no substance to them.

I'd much rather simply see some fruit.

You're exactly correct. Jesus Christ said that we must seek to examine the fruits of a man claiming to be a prophet of the Lord. Not to just take his word for it that he is. Furthermore, Christ didn't even command us to pray about it. Why did Christ command us to seek for and examine these fruits? Because it does not take any prerequisite skill or understanding. Fruits are self-evident whether they be of God or not. An atheist can see them. A room temperature IQ individual can see them. A genius can see them. A highly spiritual person can see them. A non spiritual person can see them and everyone in between.

These fruits are completely absent today. All we get are constant declarations that they are prophets without anything to back it up.

Do they miraculously heal people? Raise the dead? Stand before powerful people and declare their sins so that they might repent? Are they imprisoned? Do they prophesy of specific future events so that it is impossible for their words to be taken another way? Do they declare unequivocally that they have SEEN or HEARD Jesus? Do they give us the literal words of Jesus today?


The answer to all of these questions is: No.

and they have plenty of good examples from the BofM . . examples of prophets and examples of how the church should be . . . God has not left them on their own to figure it out . . . . same with members . . . .examples

InfoWarrior82 wrote: ↑February 28th, 2022, 10:13 am

David13 wrote: ↑February 28th, 2022, 9:55 am

Moroni104 wrote: ↑January 27th, 2022, 8:21 am I found the quotes shown here by Wendy Nelson to be just fine. They actually improve my feelings toward President Nelson.

There are many things that have been done in the last few years that have negatively impacted my impression of the first presidency, but this particular interview seems pretty innocuous.

The more I hear this ridiculous gushing the more I know there is something wrong. Something wrong with this man. If he were half as great as she gushes out about, why would I not already know this? Pure sales pitch. Pure marketing gimmick.

But then I have never been inspired to worship the corporate executives in Salt Lake. Or elsewhere.
dc

What prophecy has RMN come out with. What has he prophesied? Nothing.

And it's not just President Nelson, it's President Monson, Hinckley, Hunter, Benson, etc. all the way back. The last one to have claimed to literally have a direct revelation was President J. F. Smith (D&C 138) and the one before him was President Woodruff over 200 years ago. This whole problem did not just start recently.

This whole problem started in 1830.

When the christian goes into his closet to commune with Christ Jesus, to thank Him, to confess sins, to seek mercy and forgiveness, to ask the Lord questions, seeking the way ahead and for protection in his daily walk...........
There is no angelic heirarchy, nor set of men standing between that Christian and Jesus as he prays...........
The Christian thru his faith alone has direct access and communion with Christ Jesus...............

And it is the very same with all men wether they be Popes, Prophets and Apostles, each and every man stands or falls by himself........................

Did Joseph Smith or any other mortal die for your sins?
Did they arise from the dead?
Was you baptised in their names?
Did any of those that presided after him pay the price of your sins,
Has any of them arisen from the dead?
Can you at any time of the day or night have communion with them?
Would they wellcome you into their homes, let you stay there, regardless of who you were?
Would they come fellowship you in a homeless shelter or in a back alley of a slum,
Would they come and fellowship you in prison,
Visit you when sick or if you were all alone in the world,
With all their wealth would they take into their mansions multitudes of orphans and be fathers to them,
And befriend the widows....................
When one is cast out of their churchs, do they remember the God whom they proffess was also cast out of churchs, despised and branded a heretic.....Would they sacrifice and give their lives on behalf of those they cast out and branded Apostates?
All would fail to one degree or another................
Because like us they are but frail mortal men, prone to the very same sins and weaknesses as we all.............

Yet there is One that does all these Charitable things and more........... Jesus of Nazerath!
Just remember that when you go into your closet to pray, its just you and your true friend the Lord Christ Jesus.....

I cannot but marvel at the endless width and depths of abiding love of Jesus of Nazerath has towards mankind, of His patience and long suffering with each and every one of us, He is closer than any brother or Father, Mother, Wife or sister..........
When we break our word , He never does to us, for He has engraven us apon the very palms of His Hands.................

Think of "Calvary" and whom hung there for You and Me ..............

Nelson is super old. CV19 represents a serious risk to his health. His wife being worried for him seems pretty natural. The rest is just normal LDS talk to me.