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Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: January 29th, 2022, 10:29 pm
by endlessQuestions
Fred wrote: January 29th, 2022, 9:55 pm RMN is a false prophet. He has no credible witness and has never stated "Thus saith the Lord." He is a fraud and partner of satan. He makes feel good speeches from the pulpit which allow some people to fall for his nasty lies. No fruit in the history of earth has ever been more rotten than RMN's.

They did not introduce Christ, the David Servant, or even an Angel to backup the lies and deceit of RMN. They bring out a woman of questionable background that has witnessed absolutely nothing. She testifies that RMN has a pen with a light on it to write in the dark. She testifies that RMN is a prophet. She has no proof and offers none. Like the 5 year old on fast Sunday, she "testifies" of things that she actually has no way of knowing. It's like Fauci bringing out the janitor to testify of his credibility.

All RMN has to do is to say "Thus saith the Lord." Or the Lord told me to tell you the clot shot is a godsend. Or at our recent meeting at Adam Ondi-Ahman, God Himself told us to keep lying about the shot and masks because you are simply just too stupid to hear the truth. Or we have partnered with every know satanic organization in order to show tolerance and love to satan and all of his followers. Wendy is not credible.
I would agree that nobody should give any credence to anything Wendy Nelson says. I’m not sure why anybody would.

For those interested in the question, “when is a prophet acting as such” I would highly recommend a study of D&C 130:12-16. It shows very clearly the difference between a man speaking as a prophet, a man sharing his opinion based on spiritual experiences, and a man conjecturing based on the intelligence the Holy Ghost has communicated to him. You can then compare the words of current church leaders to this example in the standard works and determine for yourself whether these men are acting as prophets. I would concur with Fred that Pres. Nelson has never issued a statement that rises to the level of prophetic utterance… but am constantly looking.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: January 30th, 2022, 9:57 am
by EvanLM
He gets paid lots of money, has all of his trips financed, has lots of fans mob him, gets only nice things said about him, loves his wife . . . .I wonder how Alma's wife would have answered those questions. . .Wendy gave a great picture of our prophet today and no wonder she is on cloud 9. . .so taken care of while others in our church are losing their salvation cuz of a lack of caring by a prophetess that should be telling us to follow Christ . . .quite different than what we read about even Paul and other apostles. . . .

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 3:05 am
by Fred
CuriousThinker wrote: January 26th, 2022, 11:44 am
Niemand wrote: January 26th, 2022, 11:25 am I notice they're using the term "resilience" a lot now, which seems to be a globalist favourite. The camps in Oz are "Centres for National Resilience" or something like that.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... e-training
Resilience was a huge buzzword in Common Core too. It is big with the Great Reset talking heads now, also.
Here is an interesting video on common core.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 7:47 am
by SJR3t2
Lemarque wrote: January 26th, 2022, 10:12 am Some really inspiring, uplifting stuff here. https://www.thechurchnews.com/podcast/2 ... het-240778

Sorry for the length; it's a long podcast and a lot of really interesting quotes with interesting implications.

Here's the "best" of the whole interview:
[President Nelson] has been wrestling with difficult decisions. Can you imagine what he and the other brethren have been through to bring forth these over 90 adjustments and corrections that the Lord wanted to have happen? So he’s wrestling with difficult decisions all the time. I never know what the decisions are until after everybody else knows, you know, the wife is indeed the last to know. But I love it when President Nelson says, “I’m on call with the Lord 24 hours a day.”

And then I love it when he does the necessary work to receive the instruction from the Lord on whatever topic it is. But I love when sometimes he will say, “The Lord showed me exactly.” And that phrase caught my attention the very first time he used it, because just the day before, I had been studying from the life and teachings of President Wilford Woodruff and President Woodruff used the very same phrase. He said, “The Lord showed me exactly.” Now, again, I don’t know what the issue was or is when my husband wrestles, nor when he says, “The Lord showed me exactly,” but the rest of the sentence for my husband sometimes is then, “The Lord showed me exactly how to proceed,” “The Lord showed me exactly what to do or say,” “The Lord showed me exactly what would happen if a certain course were followed.”

So, again, I never know what the Lord has instructed him to do, but I love to hear him say those words.
He's good at following instructions "from the Lord":
... my husband is really quick to respond to the Lord’s instructions. For example, when people thank President Nelson for an adjustment and policy or procedure that has just blessed their lives immensely, he will turn to me after they walk away and say, “I was only following instructions from the Lord. I do know how to follow instructions.” So there is a prophet in the land and his name is President Russell Marion Nelson. If we go to wrestling with difficult decisions related to people that he knows, or perhaps when we read in the news of the latest trend in how to break a covenant or commandment with the Lord, with deep compassion, absolutely zero judgment, but with deep compassion, he will say, “I wonder how they will explain that to the Lord when they report in.” So, President Nelson really wants to help people prepare for their personal interview with the Savior.
He's very forward looking:
My husband is always looking forward. I think of the day, it was only a day after general conference one year, when someone thanked him for his message and really for the entire conference. He turned to me after they walked away and said, “That’s ancient history.” So, while the rest of us are learning from and reviewing recent words of President Nelson from a recent general conference, he’s always and already on to the next topic. He just has to be. There are so many projects that are on the move, and so much that needs to be done, and that the Lord needs him to do.

Here’s something different that I’ve noticed about his future orientation lately. He now looks 50 to 100 years ahead. That’s new to me. One day he recently said to me, “Oh, I wish I could tell you one of the decisions we made today, it will be thrilling.” I said, “Well, when will I know?” “Oh, you’ll know in about 50 years.”
Her thoughts on prospering (my emphasis at the end, not healing, but great medical care):
You can prosper with ideas, with insights, with personal revelation, you can prosper with associates that the Lord raises up to help you. You can prosper with your health, maybe even prosper with ideas to increase your health or with being led to great medical care when you have a health challenge.
She's really fun to be married to:
But I remember, oh, several years into the marriage, thinking one day, “Just a minute. I have a husband that makes me laugh,” and actually I do the same for him. In fact, from time to time, I’ll say to him, “Did you ever think it would be this much fun to be married to me?”
The interviewer thanked her on our behalf:
Well, Sister Nelson, all I can say is, from me and 17 million other people worldwide: Thank you so much for the care you’re giving President Nelson, and thank you for taking care of yourself.
Sister Nelson admits to being a germaphobe:
It’s scary out there with COVID and all of its variants, and I’m hyper vigilant about keeping President Nelson COVID-free. I’ve always been a germaphobe, and it’s only been heightened now with COVID and all these various variants. Several of our friends have had parents and siblings die or be on ventilators and be really, really ill, which brings me back to my need to be so vigilant about him and me. So we’ve followed the COVID protocol with exactness and actually, we have never been healthier.
She's confused by choices others make:
Some things, I’d say, in the last four years have been confusing, like the choices we’ve watched some loved ones make, and some things have never been clearer, like how to have joy, how to have peace, how to have love.
My personal favorite quote, in reference to Zoom meetings:
I say to my husband every time: “A good time was had by all. No refreshments were served, and no COVID variants were shared.”
President Nelson has immortalized himself by making a recording that's part of every temple dedication now, and it was "inspiration" (wish I knew the difference between inspiration and revelation):
He’s also recently been able to record a message that is now part of each new temple dedication. We are just thrilled about this. So, imagine: President Nelson can welcome the Saints to the temple dedication. He can bring them his love, the Lord’s love, he can bring a message, a blessing. We’re just thrilled with that idea that was totally inspiration.
She has a lot about truth and deception:
I started to wonder if God did have a bookstore on earth, how many of the things we love to read and talk about as though they’re true, would be shelved in God’s bookstore under fiction? When I listen to some people, it seems that COVID isolation and constraints have wreaked havoc with some people’s ability to discern what is true and what is pure fiction, pure nonsense.

if I go to the hypothetical “God’s bookstore,” there needs to be a section for silly, just ideas that are silly. And perhaps these days, we should be looking at the shelf in “God’s bookstore” that would be labeled “looking beyond the mark” because these are amazing days of personal revelation. Personal revelation is crucial so that we can discern truth from error, so we can continue to learn but we need to remember that it is personal. I remember a dear friend to me, teaching me this truth about truth one day and saying, “Just because it’s true, Wendy, doesn’t mean you should say it or write it.” So, there are some people right now who believe they have been taught truths, and I say, perhaps we all need to be like the mother of the Savior, we need to be like Mary, who kept all these things and pondered them in her heart.

And then let’s talk about the quality of the information out there: All the half-truths, the bold-faced lies, the deceptions, all the silly ideas that are offered as truth.

So, the distractions when you’re seeking information on the internet are just overwhelming, and you can get tangled up just so easily.
And of course, how important it is to follow her husband:
In this war of words that rages all around us, I really think there’s only one way to keep ourselves safe, and that is to compare anything and everything we read, view or hear with the teachings of the prophets.

...when we follow the prophets, we can be safe. So, following the prophets is the key to safety. There’s all kinds of safety: Spiritual safety, to be sure, but maybe physical safety, your health, maybe emotional safety, because you don’t need to fear when you follow the prophets.

So to me, again, the way to have the questions of our hearts, the important questions in our lives answered is to say, “Well, what did the Prophet say?” ...I think the topic of following the prophets so that we can find truth is the most important thing we could do.

So I think there is a question we can use as a litmus test to discern what is true, what is not, and that question is, “What did the Prophet say?” I started to think, “How would our lives improve if we used prophetic words as our standard of truth?” And I started to think about — imagine if we did follow the prophets with exactness. Imagine if, for example, for 30 days, we put an exclamation mark after every statement from a prophet, and we put a question mark after everything else we read, see, or hear.

I love something else President Nelson said years ago, again, before he was called as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve. He said this: “I never asked myself, ‘When does the Prophet speak as the Prophet, and when do they not?’ My interest has been, ‘How can I be more like him?’”
Sounds like he's a perfect husband:
...if I’m seeking his opinion on something that might be good for us to do, he uses it as an opportunity to let me know how much he trusts me. I’ll give you an example: I might say, “Honey, do you think it would be good if we—” and then he doesn’t even let me finish the sentence before he enthusiastically responds, “Yes.” And usually, when he did that, I said, “Oh, how can you say yes when you haven’t even heard of what I’m proposing?” His response was, and I love this: “Because I know you. I know you’ve thought it through, and if you think it’s a good idea, so do I.” So, he’s really easy to love.

Also, let me give you another example. You know, he loves me with his words. As soon as he walks in the door, he’ll kind of sing, “I’m home.” That’s exactly the pitch. Then we sit together for a few minutes before he changes out of his suit and I love watching him unwind right before my eyes. At that point, he says in the most warm and grateful tone, “I’m home.” That’s payday for me every day.

Also, imagine having a husband who, when we’re working or playing together, he’ll say, right out of the blue: “Have I told you adequately today how much I love you?” Or he’ll say, “Thanks for marrying me.” And I love when I ask my husband, anytime during the day, “How are you today,” dear?” He answers, “In love.” OK, that melts my heart every time

President Nelson never delays, he never puts off anything. I learned this early in our marriage. We would be drifting off to sleep, and I would think of something I needed his help with. I’d softly mention it to him as something that we might do on the weekend. And he would bolt up in bed and say enthusiastically, “So what’s wrong with now?” And suddenly, we would be in the garage looking for a hammer and nail to hang a picture.
Why does she or Nelson witness of Yeshua? But instead they focus on a man ...

In Matt 7:15-20 Jesus teaches us that we shall know prophets by their fruits. Matt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Jesus did not say you shall know their fruits of being a prophet after you believe you believe they are a prophet. On the contrary, Jesus is showing us one important principle of not being deceived. Before you can know that some is the title that they claim to have from God, you must know of their fruits. We must have knowledge of the fruits of the title before we can study it out in our minds before we take it to the Lord for confirmation that the title comes from Him, see D&C 9:8.
https://seekingyhwh.org/2015/10/04/in-h ... yesterday/

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 8:39 am
by ithink
NeveR wrote: January 26th, 2022, 11:36 am Did there used to be so much emphasis in the church from multiple sources on "follow the Prophet" and "the Prophet can't lead you astray"?

If it's new, when did it start?
Started during my lifetime.

Brigham Young himself never believe that doctrine.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 9:18 am
by buffalo_girl
I wouldn’t ever read the scriptures if all we knew of Christ was through such a gush of praise & adulation from women worshipping the men called to represent Him.

Seems altogether groupie-like.

Really!? Was this satire?

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 9:55 am
by David13
Moroni104 wrote: January 27th, 2022, 8:21 am I found the quotes shown here by Wendy Nelson to be just fine. They actually improve my feelings toward President Nelson.

There are many things that have been done in the last few years that have negatively impacted my impression of the first presidency, but this particular interview seems pretty innocuous.

The more I hear this ridiculous gushing the more I know there is something wrong. Something wrong with this man. If he were half as great as she gushes out about, why would I not already know this? Pure sales pitch. Pure marketing gimmick.

But then I have never been inspired to worship the corporate executives in Salt Lake. Or elsewhere.
dc

What prophecy has RMN come out with. What has he prophesied? Nothing.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 10:13 am
by InfoWarrior82
David13 wrote: February 28th, 2022, 9:55 am
Moroni104 wrote: January 27th, 2022, 8:21 am I found the quotes shown here by Wendy Nelson to be just fine. They actually improve my feelings toward President Nelson.

There are many things that have been done in the last few years that have negatively impacted my impression of the first presidency, but this particular interview seems pretty innocuous.

The more I hear this ridiculous gushing the more I know there is something wrong. Something wrong with this man. If he were half as great as she gushes out about, why would I not already know this? Pure sales pitch. Pure marketing gimmick.

But then I have never been inspired to worship the corporate executives in Salt Lake. Or elsewhere.
dc

What prophecy has RMN come out with. What has he prophesied? Nothing.


And it's not just President Nelson, it's President Monson, Hinckley, Hunter, Benson, etc. all the way back. The last one to have claimed to literally have a direct revelation was President J. F. Smith (D&C 138) and the one before him was President Woodruff over 200 years ago. This whole problem did not just start recently.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 12:39 pm
by XEmilyX
InfoWarrior82 wrote: February 28th, 2022, 10:13 am
David13 wrote: February 28th, 2022, 9:55 am
Moroni104 wrote: January 27th, 2022, 8:21 am I found the quotes shown here by Wendy Nelson to be just fine. They actually improve my feelings toward President Nelson.

There are many things that have been done in the last few years that have negatively impacted my impression of the first presidency, but this particular interview seems pretty innocuous.

The more I hear this ridiculous gushing the more I know there is something wrong. Something wrong with this man. If he were half as great as she gushes out about, why would I not already know this? Pure sales pitch. Pure marketing gimmick.

But then I have never been inspired to worship the corporate executives in Salt Lake. Or elsewhere.
dc

What prophecy has RMN come out with. What has he prophesied? Nothing.


And it's not just President Nelson, it's President Monson, Hinckley, Hunter, Benson, etc. all the way back. The last one to have claimed to literally have a direct revelation was President J. F. Smith (D&C 138) and the one before him was President Woodruff over 200 years ago. This whole problem did not just start recently.
I think a bigger majority are waking up to it however. It's almost as if there was a deep sleep put upon the people to believe the prophet is like nephi or joseph smith, and now people are realizing that it's not true.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 1:05 pm
by Subcomandante
David13 wrote: February 28th, 2022, 9:55 am
Moroni104 wrote: January 27th, 2022, 8:21 am I found the quotes shown here by Wendy Nelson to be just fine. They actually improve my feelings toward President Nelson.

There are many things that have been done in the last few years that have negatively impacted my impression of the first presidency, but this particular interview seems pretty innocuous.

The more I hear this ridiculous gushing the more I know there is something wrong. Something wrong with this man. If he were half as great as she gushes out about, why would I not already know this? Pure sales pitch. Pure marketing gimmick.

But then I have never been inspired to worship the corporate executives in Salt Lake. Or elsewhere.
dc

What prophecy has RMN come out with. What has he prophesied? Nothing.
On objective metrics, it can be argued that President Nelson has come out with prophetic ACTIONS instead of prophetic words.

The strongest suit of this is the CFM program that was launched with home church in mind two years before the p(l)andemic and four years before the current war being fought.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 1:14 pm
by David13
Subcomandante wrote: February 28th, 2022, 1:05 pm
David13 wrote: February 28th, 2022, 9:55 am
Moroni104 wrote: January 27th, 2022, 8:21 am I found the quotes shown here by Wendy Nelson to be just fine. They actually improve my feelings toward President Nelson.

There are many things that have been done in the last few years that have negatively impacted my impression of the first presidency, but this particular interview seems pretty innocuous.

The more I hear this ridiculous gushing the more I know there is something wrong. Something wrong with this man. If he were half as great as she gushes out about, why would I not already know this? Pure sales pitch. Pure marketing gimmick.

But then I have never been inspired to worship the corporate executives in Salt Lake. Or elsewhere.
dc

What prophecy has RMN come out with. What has he prophesied? Nothing.
On objective metrics, it can be argued that President Nelson has come out with prophetic ACTIONS instead of prophetic words.

The strongest suit of this is the CFM program that was launched with home church in mind two years before the p(l)andemic and four years before the current war being fought.

If I'm going to "home church" then what do I need the church for? To have someone to pay monthly dues to, to stay home?

That idea seems to me to be more profit oriented, than prophetic.
dc

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 1:16 pm
by Serragon
Subcomandante wrote: February 28th, 2022, 1:05 pm
David13 wrote: February 28th, 2022, 9:55 am
Moroni104 wrote: January 27th, 2022, 8:21 am I found the quotes shown here by Wendy Nelson to be just fine. They actually improve my feelings toward President Nelson.

There are many things that have been done in the last few years that have negatively impacted my impression of the first presidency, but this particular interview seems pretty innocuous.

The more I hear this ridiculous gushing the more I know there is something wrong. Something wrong with this man. If he were half as great as she gushes out about, why would I not already know this? Pure sales pitch. Pure marketing gimmick.

But then I have never been inspired to worship the corporate executives in Salt Lake. Or elsewhere.
dc

What prophecy has RMN come out with. What has he prophesied? Nothing.
On objective metrics, it can be argued that President Nelson has come out with prophetic ACTIONS instead of prophetic words.

The strongest suit of this is the CFM program that was launched with home church in mind two years before the p(l)andemic and four years before the current war being fought.
CFM was not instituted because the leadership knew that they would shut down church in 2 years for COVID.

CFM is a program. It is the most highly correlated program I have ever seen in the church. Seminary students had to completely change what they were studying (and some will miss out on studying certain parts of the scriptures) to get everyone in line. We now study the same thing in Sunday School, Seminary, institute, and AP/YW classes. We are encouraged to also study it at home, but it was never intended as a replacement for sunday church meetings.

I have found CFM to be a great blessing for many as it has resulted in many more people studying their scriptures than before. Many people have told me that last year was the first time they had ever read the D&C from cover to cover, and many are studying the OT for the first time in their lives.

But it is false to say that this is anything more than a highly correlated education program. Trying to maneuver this into the position of prophecy is simply wishful thinking and a rewriting of history to coincide with your desires and expectations.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 1:52 pm
by Lemarque
Subcomandante wrote: February 28th, 2022, 1:05 pm
David13 wrote: February 28th, 2022, 9:55 am
Moroni104 wrote: January 27th, 2022, 8:21 am I found the quotes shown here by Wendy Nelson to be just fine. They actually improve my feelings toward President Nelson.

There are many things that have been done in the last few years that have negatively impacted my impression of the first presidency, but this particular interview seems pretty innocuous.

The more I hear this ridiculous gushing the more I know there is something wrong. Something wrong with this man. If he were half as great as she gushes out about, why would I not already know this? Pure sales pitch. Pure marketing gimmick.

But then I have never been inspired to worship the corporate executives in Salt Lake. Or elsewhere.
dc

What prophecy has RMN come out with. What has he prophesied? Nothing.
On objective metrics, it can be argued that President Nelson has come out with prophetic ACTIONS instead of prophetic words.

The strongest suit of this is the CFM program that was launched with home church in mind two years before the p(l)andemic and four years before the current war being fought.
If I was talking with a friend not of our church about how our prophet prepared us for the pandemic, and they asked how, I think this is approximately how the conversation would go (based on conversations I have had with non-members):

Friend: "Did your prophet let you know that the pandemic was coming?"
Me: "Yeah, he implemented a new scripture study program two years ago called Come Follow Me. So people in our church have been able to study the scriptures and do church at home."
Friend: "So did they tell you a pandemic was coming?"
Me: "Not exactly. But in hindsight it's pretty clear this is what we were being prepared for."
Friend: ".......?"
Me: "We were prepared to be able to study the scriptures at home."
Friend: "The old program couldn't be studied at home?"
Me: "It could."
Friend: "......?"
Me: "Well some people have chosen not to do it, stopped reading the scriptures, and are suffering spiritually."
Friend: "Wouldn't that be true regardless of the program?"
Me: "Yeah, but this new curriculum is specifically designed to be studied at home."
Friend: "The old curriculum couldn't be studied at home?"
Me: "It could. It just wasn't designed for it."
Friend: "So your church didn't have well-designed curriculum for studying at home, and didn't encourage people to study their scriptures on their own until a couple years ago?"
Me: "...."
Friend: "WOW! SO PROPHETIC!"

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 2:01 pm
by CuriousThinker
CFM was started under President Monson, not President Nelson. There were test areas where it was used before it was rolled out to the entire church. My old stake was one such test area.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 2:07 pm
by Reluctant Watchman
CFM is awful. Lots of leading questions and language.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 2:48 pm
by gruden2.0
I started to wonder if God did have a bookstore on earth, how many of the things we love to read and talk about as though they’re true, would be shelved in God’s bookstore under fiction? When I listen to some people, it seems that COVID isolation and constraints have wreaked havoc with some people’s ability to discern what is true and what is pure fiction, pure nonsense.

if I go to the hypothetical “God’s bookstore,” there needs to be a section for silly, just ideas that are silly. And perhaps these days, we should be looking at the shelf in “God’s bookstore” that would be labeled “looking beyond the mark” because these are amazing days of personal revelation. Personal revelation is crucial so that we can discern truth from error, so we can continue to learn but we need to remember that it is personal. I remember a dear friend to me, teaching me this truth about truth one day and saying, “Just because it’s true, Wendy, doesn’t mean you should say it or write it.” So, there are some people right now who believe they have been taught truths, and I say, perhaps we all need to be like the mother of the Savior, we need to be like Mary, who kept all these things and pondered them in her heart.
God doesn't have a bookstore, but He does have libraries. I've seen them in a couple dreams (maybe more representational, but they exist). I wonder if it occurs to Wendy the difference. Jesus himself said the milk and honey of the gospel could be obtained without price.

I also wonder if it occurred to Wendy how Joseph Smith was treated after his visions by the theologians and learned clergy of his day.

“Just because it’s true, Wendy, doesn’t mean you should say it or write it.

Sometimes I wonder what she (and GAs who have made similar statements) are really saying. "Don't make us feel bad because the Spirit never tells us anything"???

All this tells me is that Wendy has never been in the presence of a true prophet. True prophets cannot be constrained, they MUST speak. There's a reason the Lord had to very pointedly tell Mormon he was not allowed to preach to the degraded Nephites, it was very likely the hardest commandment for him to obey, because he cared so deeply about his people.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 4:10 pm
by Korsgaard46
Why brag about all the revelation you receive and then tell people they'll find out in 50+ years what the Lord said.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 4:14 pm
by Korsgaard46
Did Rusty receive revelation on the war in the Ukraine? Too bad they have to wait another 50 years to find out if he did.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 4:27 pm
by Reluctant Watchman
Korsgaard46 wrote: February 28th, 2022, 4:10 pm Why brag about all the revelation you receive and then tell people they'll find out in 50+ years what the Lord said.
She has a habit of doing this. Many years ago when her hubby became president she alluded to the fact that a large gathering "may" have taken place at Adam-ondi-Ahman. She said "What if..." And that the news outlets would never know.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 4:45 pm
by Serragon
Our leadership caste consists of a bunch of aristocrats who spend much of their time witnessing to the legitimacy of each other. These witnesses never specify anything specific that was witnessed, just that they "know". You are to take this to mean that they have had a direct confirmation from the Holy Ghost, but this confirmation is also never shared. Curiously, none of these people ever actually witness that they are what the others claim they are.

Outside of these "witnesses" to things not witnessed, the only other piece of evidence is the keys passed down through Joseph. This essentially is a birthright claim. The problem here is twofold. First, we do not exclusively claim these keys nor can we exclusively show that others do not have them. Second, there is no fruit that is exclusive to our church that has grown since Joseph.

imagine I hired a few gardeners. Each had their own plot. One claimed to be THE master gardener and had exclusive right from God to plant and harvest due to a certificate handed down over multiple generations from a previous master gardener.

10 years pass and I note that the master gardener's plot is no different than anyone elses. The only difference are his constant claims that his is garden is actually more productive even though it can't be measured and his inherited certificate.

At some point, evidence is required. Faith requires some substance as a foundation. Faith comes from a desire to know truth and acting on the evidence provided. But blind faith is not faith at all. It comes from fear, pride, and/or sloth. Its foundation is the desire to not be wrong rather than submission to truth.

It is getting tiring to see this constant parade of tightly coordinated curriculum, heavily orchestrated leadership statements and broadcasts, doctrinal changes that match current world trends, and vague generalities that have no substance to them.

I'd much rather simply see some fruit.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 5:07 pm
by Reluctant Watchman
Serragon wrote: February 28th, 2022, 4:45 pm Our leadership caste consists of a bunch of aristocrats who spend much of their time witnessing to the legitimacy of each other. These witnesses never specify anything specific that was witnessed, just that they "know". You are to take this to mean that they have had a direct confirmation from the Holy Ghost, but this confirmation is also never shared. Curiously, none of these people ever actually witness that they are what the others claim they are.

Outside of these "witnesses" to things not witnessed, the only other piece of evidence is the keys passed down through Joseph. This essentially is a birthright claim. The problem here is twofold. First, we do not exclusively claim these keys nor can we exclusively show that others do not have them. Second, there is no fruit that is exclusive to our church that has grown since Joseph.

imagine I hired a few gardeners. Each had their own plot. One claimed to be THE master gardener and had exclusive right from God to plant and harvest due to a certificate handed down over multiple generations from a previous master gardener.

10 years pass and I note that the master gardener's plot is no different than anyone elses. The only difference are his constant claims that his is garden is actually more productive even though it can't be measured and his inherited certificate.

At some point, evidence is required. Faith requires some substance as a foundation. Faith comes from a desire to know truth and acting on the evidence provided. But blind faith is not faith at all. It comes from fear, pride, and/or sloth. Its foundation is the desire to not be wrong rather than submission to truth.

It is getting tiring to see this constant parade of tightly coordinated curriculum, heavily orchestrated leadership statements and broadcasts, doctrinal changes that match current world trends, and vague generalities that have no substance to them.

I'd much rather simply see some fruit.
IMO the fruit from the Q15 "master gardener" plot is quite wilted and dying at the moment. While many plots around them are thriving.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 5:33 pm
by EvanLM
gruden2.0 wrote: February 28th, 2022, 2:48 pm
I started to wonder if God did have a bookstore on earth, how many of the things we love to read and talk about as though they’re true, would be shelved in God’s bookstore under fiction? When I listen to some people, it seems that COVID isolation and constraints have wreaked havoc with some people’s ability to discern what is true and what is pure fiction, pure nonsense.

if I go to the hypothetical “God’s bookstore,” there needs to be a section for silly, just ideas that are silly. And perhaps these days, we should be looking at the shelf in “God’s bookstore” that would be labeled “looking beyond the mark” because these are amazing days of personal revelation. Personal revelation is crucial so that we can discern truth from error, so we can continue to learn but we need to remember that it is personal. I remember a dear friend to me, teaching me this truth about truth one day and saying, “Just because it’s true, Wendy, doesn’t mean you should say it or write it.” So, there are some people right now who believe they have been taught truths, and I say, perhaps we all need to be like the mother of the Savior, we need to be like Mary, who kept all these things and pondered them in her heart.
God doesn't have a bookstore, but He does have libraries. I've seen them in a couple dreams (maybe more representational, but they exist). I wonder if it occurs to Wendy the difference. Jesus himself said the milk and honey of the gospel could be obtained without price.

I also wonder if it occurred to Wendy how Joseph Smith was treated after his visions by the theologians and learned clergy of his day.

“Just because it’s true, Wendy, doesn’t mean you should say it or write it.

Sometimes I wonder what she (and GAs who have made similar statements) are really saying. "Don't make us feel bad because the Spirit never tells us anything"???

All this tells me is that Wendy has never been in the presence of a true prophet. True prophets cannot be constrained, they MUST speak. There's a reason the Lord had to very pointedly tell Mormon he was not allowed to preach to the degraded Nephites, it was very likely the hardest commandment for him to obey, because he cared so deeply about his people.
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did you ever wonder what "magnify your office " really means? Jacob 1:18-19 For I, Jacob, and my brother Joseph had been consecrated priests and teachers of this people, by the hand of Nephi. And we did MAGNIFY OUR OFFICE unto the Lord, taking upon us the responsibility, answering the sins of the people UPON OUR OWN HEADS if we did not teach them the word of God with all diligence, wherefore, by laboring with our might their BLOOD might not come upon OUR GARMENTS;

otherwise, their blood would come upon our garments, and we would NOT be found spotless at the last day.

the responsibility of prophets . . .priests and teachers . . . is it not so today?

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 5:37 pm
by EvanLM
btw ; fruit is spirituality . . . not more converts . . not more blankets sent to 3 rd world countries . . .not more money . . .fruit is spiritual strength . . .demonstration of the HG and gifts . . . very personal . . not easily seen . . . what the Savior taught his apostles . . fruit = spiritual . . .hard to grow in this fallen world

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 5:38 pm
by InfoWarrior82
Serragon wrote: February 28th, 2022, 4:45 pm Our leadership caste consists of a bunch of aristocrats who spend much of their time witnessing to the legitimacy of each other. These witnesses never specify anything specific that was witnessed, just that they "know". You are to take this to mean that they have had a direct confirmation from the Holy Ghost, but this confirmation is also never shared. Curiously, none of these people ever actually witness that they are what the others claim they are.

Outside of these "witnesses" to things not witnessed, the only other piece of evidence is the keys passed down through Joseph. This essentially is a birthright claim. The problem here is twofold. First, we do not exclusively claim these keys nor can we exclusively show that others do not have them. Second, there is no fruit that is exclusive to our church that has grown since Joseph.

imagine I hired a few gardeners. Each had their own plot. One claimed to be THE master gardener and had exclusive right from God to plant and harvest due to a certificate handed down over multiple generations from a previous master gardener.

10 years pass and I note that the master gardener's plot is no different than anyone elses. The only difference are his constant claims that his is garden is actually more productive even though it can't be measured and his inherited certificate.

At some point, evidence is required. Faith requires some substance as a foundation. Faith comes from a desire to know truth and acting on the evidence provided. But blind faith is not faith at all. It comes from fear, pride, and/or sloth. Its foundation is the desire to not be wrong rather than submission to truth.

It is getting tiring to see this constant parade of tightly coordinated curriculum, heavily orchestrated leadership statements and broadcasts, doctrinal changes that match current world trends, and vague generalities that have no substance to them.

I'd much rather simply see some fruit.

You're exactly correct. Jesus Christ said that we must seek to examine the fruits of a man claiming to be a prophet of the Lord. Not to just take his word for it that he is. Furthermore, Christ didn't even command us to pray about it. Why did Christ command us to seek for and examine these fruits? Because it does not take any prerequisite skill or understanding. Fruits are self-evident whether they be of God or not. An atheist can see them. A room temperature IQ individual can see them. A genius can see them. A highly spiritual person can see them. A non spiritual person can see them and everyone in between.

These fruits are completely absent today. All we get are constant declarations that they are prophets without anything to back it up.

Do they miraculously heal people? Raise the dead? Stand before powerful people and declare their sins so that they might repent? Are they imprisoned? Do they prophesy of specific future events so that it is impossible for their words to be taken another way? Do they declare unequivocally that they have SEEN or HEARD Jesus? Do they give us the literal words of Jesus today?


The answer to all of these questions is: No.

Re: Church News Podcast: Sister Nelson's "witness" to President Nelson

Posted: February 28th, 2022, 5:39 pm
by Lexew1899
Wendy is the Mormon version of Michael Obama. Probably the same politically as well.