Let's talk about gardens

[ChelC]

What have you got started, in the ground or in the planning stages? Any tips to share?

We've started ours with peas, onions and radishes. We've got the rows ready (abandoned the square foot garden this year) and have started indoors broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, jalepenos, and bell peppers. Soon we will be planting potatoes - russets, reds, yukon gold, and some mixed varieties saved over from last years harvest (thanks ShineOn) and some carrots and kale. When we get warmer, we'll also plant corn, pumpkins, watermelons, beans... I think I got everything.

Last year we suffered from beetles. I tried so hard to stay organic, but couldn't if I wanted to save the garden. This year I've planted the top, bottom, and middle of each row with onions. I bordered the pumpkin/watermelon area with them too. I think this weekend I will also plant garlic around the garden here and there. When it warms up I'll strategically place cilantro. Last year onions and cilantro were about the only things that went untouched. They even ate the marigolds that I planted to keep bugs away.

I plan on infusing some water in a spray bottle with some garlic, onion and cilantro and a little dish soap that I can spray where I find bugs. We'll see how that works out. We've got some good chicken manure/compost that I'll be using to fertilize.

I'm excited, I love this time of year!

[jbalm]

Too early to start here.

Last year I tried growing potatoes in the stacking boxes. I must have screwed it up because I only got potatoes on the top layer. Also, the yukon gold didn't produce nearly as much as the red potatoes, and I like them both about the same, so I will just be planting the red ones this year.

For the last 2 years, we just did square foot gardening because its easy. This year, my neighbor got hold of plow that will fit my tractor, so we're going to plant about 1/2 acre of corn between our two houses.

Also got rid of a couple of horses, so I'm going to till one of the smaller pens and plant more potatoes and pumpkins. I wanted to grow pot for a cash crop, but the wife says no.

We're expanding the gardening quite a bit this year. I'm sure I'll make plenty of mistakes to report on.

[buffalo_girl]

We need to get it to stop snowing so we can get through the three - four foot drifts covering the garden space.

[A Me]

We've planted lettuce and spinach but I don't think either one is going to come up. Also, sunflowers and a little broccoli seedling. I'm a little late on the onions for our area but I think I can plant them as well as potatoes this week.

That's the earliest stuff we can plant round here... at least, that I feel comfortable growing. The rest is going to have to wait a couple of weeks at least.

[bobhenstra]

In all my years of gardening, 14 of those as a professional gardener, I have found that "all" plants have their pests, best way to stop pests is to sterilize your soil before you plant. Turning your soil over before the winter freezes helps, placing black plastic over your garden area also helps, traps heat under the plastic, and heat of around 140-160, degrees will terminate most pests and weed seeds, properly made compost is made at that temperature range. But I have found that in regular gardens, most of the pre planting preparations that do not involve chemicals of some sort, or planting supposed bug deterring plants simply are not effective, marigolds for example have their own pests.

I know people who live in their gardens, Gardening is the most important thing in their lives. But I have other things to do, therefore the best garden for me is the garden that requires the least amount of work, and that includes watering. And that is gardening in a container or systems like square foot gardening. However, I have seen a lot of great high work gardens, some people have that urge, fine with me, I don't.

I make and use my own compost, properly made compost is bug/pest/weed free, and smaller box gardens are easier to cover with netting to protect plants from pests and birds. They're also easier to use as hot boxes for starting plants and you should replace the soil in each box with fresh properly made compost each year. Now that I'm older, I can usually find a neighborhood kid, or one of my grandkids to do that for me. Box gardens become just like regular gardens if the growing medium is not replaced. And it just isn't that much work replacing my growing medium,--- sitting in my lounge chair, sipping my lemonade watching a kid earn ten bucks,--- easy!

Years ago, teaching my own kids about gardening I picked a small section of my huge back yard and had my kids bury old tires up to the top of their treads in the early Spring, the process removed enough dirt from under the tires that we could put new fresh compost in the center of the tires, to a depth of about one foot. I then told them to plant anything they wanted, each kid had a tire and was responsible for keeping it watered. After the plants started growing, they were required to place and secure a square piece of old carpet, upside down, with slots cut so plants could grow through the carpet over each tire.

Weeds grew in abundance around the tires, but the kids received a bounteous harvest from each tire garden. The fresh compost didn't have pests or weeds, the carpet kept the compost moist and prevented imported weed seeds from growing in the compost. They discovered that everywhere they laid down old carpet, weeds didn’t grow. Their little gardens did great. They planted mostly squash and melons, vine and bush type plants in each one, right there in the weed patch! Melons and squash spread out through the weeds. The kids took great pleasure in bringing the fruit of the vine and bushes into Mom so she could properly prepare them for dinner, and they enjoyed the flavor of fresh picked veggies and fruits.

Later on we did the same thing with a room sized piece of carpet without the tires. Laid the carpet down, upside down, cut X's in the carpet where we wanted to plant. Dug out the soil under the X's replaced it with fresh compost and planted. Nary a weed grew! I once explained this to an old timer (back when I was a young timer) His garden did great, but grew one single weed, he's be showing off his garden, expounding upon it's weed and pest free virtues, then somebody would see that weed and ask, isn't that a weed, he'd say "yeh, [Insert Obrien's favorite curse word here] (he'd do a mock groan) it is,--- I just haven't found the time and energy to pull it-----

Successful gardeners do as much or as little work as they want, but they do it right. Unsuccessful gardeners simply do not do things right, no matter the type of garden they choose.

Bob

[ldsliberty]

We've got the rows ready (abandoned the square foot garden this year)...

Why did you abandon square foot gardening for traditional/row gardening?

[Watchdog]

"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need."
- Marcus Tullius Cicero

Good to see something useful in here for a change. Keep up the good work, ChelC. And I'll take 1000 more posts by Bobhenstra over 1 more bag of evil cop/teacher unsterilized night soil fertillizer, please.

[jbalm]

Why did you abandon square foot gardening for traditional/row gardening?

I'm kind of wondering about this too.

We like the sf method for certain things...green vegetables, strawberries, smaller plants, generally. Potatoes grew well in the sf garden, but we eat lots of them, so we are going to try rows this year just to get more of them. I don't think sf would work well for corn. But overall, sf seems superior for some things.

[A Me]

Years ago, teaching my own kids about gardening I picked a small section of my huge back yard and had my kids bury old tires up to the top of their treads in the early Spring, the process removed enough dirt from under the tires that we could put new fresh compost in the center of the tires, to a depth of about one foot. I then told them to plant anything they wanted, each kid had a tire and was responsible for keeping it watered. After the plants started growing, they were required to place and secure a square piece of old carpet, upside down, with slots cut so plants could grow through the carpet over each tire.

Weeds grew in abundance around the tires, but the kids received a bounteous harvest from each tire garden. The fresh compost didn't have pests or weeds, the carpet kept the compost moist and prevented imported weed seeds from growing in the compost. They discovered that everywhere they laid down old carpet, weeds didn’t grow. Their little gardens did great. They planted mostly squash and melons, vine and bush type plants in each one, right there in the weed patch! Melons and squash spread out through the weeds. The kids took great pleasure in bringing the fruit of the vine and bushes into Mom so she could properly prepare them for dinner, and they enjoyed the flavor of fresh picked veggies and fruits....

Successful gardeners do as much or as little work as they want, but they do it right. Unsuccessful gardeners simply do not do things right, no matter the type of garden they choose.

Bob

If I haven't said it already, I love reading your posts.

I like the tire idea. I was thinking of doing a smaller version of the sfg for the little ones but this sounds like it would work better for my kids. I don't know that our landlady would like having old tires in her yard, though.

This is our second year gardening, so I especially appreciate your thoughts on pest control.

To ChelC... On a completely different note, I would also like to know why your family went back to row planting.

[bobhenstra]

http://www.gardenguides.com/how-to/tips ... tainer.asp

Any container will do, even cardboard boxes lined with plastic, or a hole in the dirt lined with plastic. Make a hole, line it's sides with plastic (not the bottom) or punch big holes in the plastic at the bottom for drainage. Put in compost, potting soil or other growing medium, plant and mulch with carpet, plastic or cardboard. (mulching is for weed and water control)

Bob

[Spence]

Anyone tried fencing their garden off and letting chickens do the pest control? Or will they ruin the plants or eat them?

[tick]

I have my garden fenced off the keep the chickens out. They will eat just about everything in sight. In fact, they found a way in during the fall last year. I only have 6 chickens and they devoured 8 near-ready to harvest broccoli plants and a few heads of cabbage in 1 day...

[bobhenstra]

There's a company that sells what are called chicken tractor pens. A pen that fits between row crops you place chickens in, they do the weeding for you. You move the pens from row to row at night. If you must use row crops then mulch is the best way to keep your garden weed free, hay chips, anything a few inches thick if your using organic mulch. Chickens around the garden are just a pain! Growing up we had a dog trained to chase our free roaming chickens away from the garden.

Bob

[buffalo_girl]

You do not want chickens in the garden! I once believed that geese ate weeds. Well, yes, they do - along with everything else in the garden.

[Nan]

we have planted brocoli, cabage and kolorobi. Okay so my spelling sucks. We have also just planted potatoes in containers. Arizona is a hard place to garden.

[Spence]

Dang, I was hoping for chickens to be divine pesticide. I guess I'll just have to buy me thousands of preying mantis' and ladybugs.

[DOZ]

Too early and way too frigin cold here!!!
But I am excited about starting. My husband will be building us a root cellar this year

ChelC, I will be pm ing you concerning chickens also. We would like to start that also and we need all the advise we can get.

[shadow]

We got 2 ft of snow on Monday. No ground in sight!

[buffalo_girl]

We got another 8 inches with 35 mph winds. The car is pretty much buried. The garden gate is totally under a snow drift!

Looks like we may have to be under federal surveillance if we have a garden. Look up HR 875 in Thomas

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/c111query.html

Go to the 'Enter Search' box. Click on 'Bill Search'. Put in HR 875. Go to bottom of page and click on 'Search'.

Section 201 makes this a Federal Law with power over State control.

Section 401 & 402 are very loosely written. Anything the federal inspection agents deem to be the possible source of food borne disease, they can find 'in violation'.

Looks like Farmer's Markets will be a thing of the past. Control the food, control the population.

Write to your US Representatives about this.

[ChelC]

Why did you abandon square foot gardening for traditional/row gardening?

Sorry, I didn't even realize anyone had commented on this thread until today. I liked the square foot garden, but my husband hated it. Mostly because he dreams of being a farmer and he likes to look out and see rows. Also because we never had a bug problem until the year we put the square foot garden in. Usually half of our garden or more is corn and pumpkins, so they go on the ground anyhow. We own a large rear tine tiller and a small mantis type, so it's easy as pie to prepare the soil for planting, map it out any which way we want to, and get the bulk of the weeds under control mostly with the small tiller, instead of hand picking. Despite paying to put in good soil above our soil (which is decent anyway) we still got an abundance of weeds in our SF garden. It was pretty tedious hand picking them knowing that on our rows we could take out most of the weeds with a quick sweep of the tiller.

The downside to rows is having to walk through the soil. With the SF garden I had bark around the boxes and it stayed cleaner. The SF garden also did use less water, but didn't really prove itself for us. Maybe it would have had we given it another year, but it would have broken my wanna be farmer husband's heart to spend another year looking at those blasted boxes, and not getting to use noisy machinery.

DOZ - let me know how the root cellar goes. I've been trying to talk my husband into one... telling him he'll get to play with a tractor, but it isn't working. I might just have to start doing it until his guilt takes over. I'm also trying to talk him into goats, but he thinks our yard is too small. Sigh. I don't know how to make our lot grow any bigger. When we got our chickens I was so worried about it. I thought it would require some special skill set. It doesn't. They are very easy to care for. The best resources are Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens and backyardchickens.com. Feel free to ask me anything!

[ChelC]

Last year I tried growing potatoes in the stacking boxes. I must have screwed it up because I only got potatoes on the top layer.

I'm trying the stack method this year for potatoes... I'll let you know how it goes. How tall did you let them get before stacking another box? The reason I ask is because I seem to remember reading last year that if you are over zealous in stacking the deeper roots die off because they don't get nutrients from the sun... something like that. If I find it I'll add it to the thread. The first year we planted potatoes we didn't do anything special, just buried them and forgot them all year and it was the best yield we've had of any year. We also had the most success with red potatoes. Maybe I just need to stop being fancy.

[jbalm]

I let them get about 10"-12" tall before adding another layer of compost. But I probably added too much at a time. I guess the plants just wanted to grow upward instead of sending out roots.

I mostly did it out of curiosity. I've got plenty of room, and don't need to grow them vertically. This year I'm just putting all the boxes at ground level, then planting and forgetting about it until they're done.

[buffalo_girl]

Potatoes really like a sandy loam. The sandy part allows them to make 'perfect' potatoes. You do not want much fertilizer with potatoes! All their energy goes to stem and leaves. They even create little potato 'fruits' up on the stems above ground which are nasty little poisonous things. The create NO tubers below ground.

I planted a whole crop in an area of very old well-rotted manure. The soil was fluffy and deep, but all I got were stems and ugly little potato fruits.

Keep the soil light and sandy. As the stems emerge, cover lightly in stages. My husband got too eager and piled so much dirt on the new growth the poor plants just gave up.

The best potato crop we had was in newly broken sandy loam. We trenched rows. Put potato 'seed' in the trenches, grouped in individual 'nests', then covered to 6 inches or so of soil. As the growth emerged we removed the soil from the paths in between to add several layers more. If the stem growth gets too wild and rank, I cut off the long overgrowth. I let them bloom. With the lower paths/higher mounded rows you can dig from the sides to extract 'new' potatoes to go along with your fresh peas in white sauce.

If you are careful not to disturb the root system or dislodge the tops, they keep on producing tubers. I've 'robbed' them throughout the summer and still had lots of potatoes to store over winter being careful not to disturb the little tubers.

The mounding of hills also prevents the 'greening' of the potatoes from sun exposure and intense heat. I think potato tubers like to be cool & well shaded with lots of room to stretch into perfect potato shapes. The tops need lots of sun.

[jbalm]

Potatoes really like a sandy loam.

That's good to know. In that case I have the perfect spot to plant this years crop.

The sandy part allows them to make 'perfect' potatoes. You do not want much fertilizer with potatoes! All their energy goes to stem and leaves. They even create little potato 'fruits' up on the stems above ground which are nasty little poisonous things.

I think those nasty little 'fruits' are what killed that McCandless kid in "Into the Wild."

[ChelC]

I was hoping for one of those little fruits last year and didn't get one. I wanted to plant the seeds just out of curiosity. I've heard that they don't produce true to the mother plant, but I just want to try it. I've also heard that wherever lots of tall weeds like to grow is where you should plant potatoes.