LDS Freedom Forum

I’ve read this forum for a while. You people are a lot more rational and understanding than most people I have met in real life. So I want to talk to you about some things that I haven’t even discussed with my family or friends.

I have a serious problem which is the following: I cannot for the life of me find interest in girls my age, whether LDS or not. No I am not gay – I am very straight. However the young women of this generation don’t seem to be like others. There is a certain aura that just seems off. What I mean is that I don’t feel warmth around these young women, nor do I feel any kind of femininity, innocence, or gentleness about them. Rather it seems that these girls have bought into an entirely different idea of what it means to be a female. In my experience they are often vainglorious, aggressive, promiscuous, entitled, fake, vulgar, and ego driven. This can be seen most noticeably on social media.

Now let me be clear that I am not excusing the young men of this generation, who equally leave something to be desired. I am not saying that I am the perfect man, either. However the YW of today should not be excused as innocent of the worldly behaviors that have plagued our generation, they are as entrenched in the world as anyone. Because of this I have a very hard time bringing myself to even attempt dating at this point. It seems like I am only setting myself up for disappointment. In the last few years I have been on a few dates only, and I just never seem to feel a connection to any kind of feminine energy. It makes me sad because I know that the union of male and female is one of the most powerful things in this world.

This is very personal, but I have only really loved one woman before. She was twice my age (mid-early forties), and yes, she loved me back. I don’t care to get in the specifics of how this happened, but yes she was married (the relationship was abusive) and no we did not cross any serous lines. She was an extremely faithful member of the church, beyond any TBM I’ve met, and genuinely a good person who would not betray her faith for anything. Most of all, she was a woman and she acted like it. You might be wondering why I, in my twenties, would have feelings for someone in their forties. The reason is that she was more “girly” than anyone 20 years younger than her. She was kind, pretty, virtuous, genuine, loving, playful, and innocent. She didn’t have to try, she just was.

I know many women like this, and they are all at least 35 years old or so. No I do not have some weird fetish for older women. If I found a girl my age who acted this way then I would fall for her in an instant. But I have yet to find anything resembling this in the young women of today. Acting demure, classy, or even slightly deferential toward any man seems like a foreign concept to them. It is getting to the point where seeing a girl smile is an anomaly- they’re always mad about something. I find that it’s harder to act like a man when they behave this way; it rather makes me just want to give up and not even try to interact with them. I don’t think that my standards are high; they would be considered normal 25 years ago before feminism, social media, and hormone-imbalance chemicals have destroyed all that is good and wholesome.

And as I said, this is a problem with the world, but LDS women are not immune. The only thing that really separates our religion’s maidens is the added layer of entitlement and self pedestalizing. The aura of self-importance is simply nauseating at this point, particularly for those YW who have served missions. I had a sister missionary tell me that missions are more of a sacrifice for women than they are for men because “unlike Elders, we don’t have to go.” Mormon girls casually tell me how they will not date any man unless they “have served a mission, are over 5’11 tall, make over $150k, are fit, have a good face, and give me everything I want.” Even though I possess some, but certainly not all, of these prerequisites, the mentality strikes me as very vapid and worldly, which is the real turn-off.

Now I must say that all this is just as much men’s faults for their “simp” like behavior as anything else. From prophet to deacon, modern men bend over backwards to provide any amount of positive attention, opportunity, and material contributions to women in the hopes that some of it will be reciprocated in the form of romantic interest (to no avail, obviously.) This in turn has spoiled women, giving them de facto permission to act this way with no consequences. So while this post may seem like a laundry list of complaints against women, the reality is that I am angry towards men for letting it get this bad.

We as men have allowed ourselves to be completely dominated by women in every sphere of existence, and because of this, both sexes are miserable. It’s time to remember that God created man and women with specific roles, and this is the way we are to be happy and productive. When we deviate from them, we become bitter, miserable, and hateful toward the other. I have committed to be a better man so that, if there still exists some girl out there with a shred of femininity, I will be ready to be a worthy husband for her. Until then, I don’t know what else to do.

You bring up great things in this thread.

I'm in a similar position as you. In my early 30s, single. It's a gift and a curse. Had the traditional thing happened to me and earlier in my life I got married to a true blue Mormon girl in the temple, I might be in a situation where I'm married to someone who refuses to consider the message of the LDS church isn't entirely true. I have enjoyed a nice degree of freedom to explore alternative explanations to the Book of Mormon and I feel I've found truth I can't find in the LDS institution.

I've reached a point where I realize that no matter what, I'm probably not going to marry someone who has religious views that line up 100% with mine and that's okay, but I do find it unlikely that I would be compatible with a good traditional LDS girl. I'm a good book of Mormon believing guy. Outside of paying tithing I still obey all the commandments. But a lot of LDS girls want that guy who could be a bishop some day and I'd never want that. I couldn't do that with my views.

There is a girl I work with that I care about deeply and she's the closest thing to someone I'd want to pursue but she's such a true blue Mormon, I don't have hope she'd accept me.

Where failure comes in trying to find a situation where your religious views line up completely with someone, maybe success will come from lining up with someone who has the same general morals and values as you.

You and other single alternative-thinking Book of Mormon believers are in a tough spot. I think non-denominational Book of Mormon believing groups will form (and they kind of have already) and that these things will help alt-thinking Book of Mormon believers to meet and connect, hopefully helping some people find love.

Let's have faith and be open minded. We can be righteous, quality men and women, and voice our concerns and unique views on the church and the Book of Mormon in a Christlike way. If it's a dealbreaker for someone, well that's life and at least you tried. If it's not a dealbreaker though, you might help wake someone up to truth and find love at the same time.



Something to keep in mind, there are loveless marriages which are like living trapped in an unhappy situation. There are people unable to really look at religious things from a different perspective than the LDS church's official story due to overbearing spousal expectations and family dynamics. I know a girl at a part-time job I have and i had no idea she dabbles into "all is not well in Zion" blogs. I was blown away. I've known her for a few years and never would have expected this. I opened up to her that I believe in the Book of Mormon but not the LDS church. She thinks that perspective could be true but her husband is deep into the "Go team, go! Never leave the church!" spirit of establishment Mormonism that she knows there is no other option for her than to continue believing the LDS church is led by 15 prophets, seers and revelators.

Our commitments to those around us can be difficult and tricky things.

I know a few men who looked for LDS girls overseas, mostly under developed countries. They tend to have a more traditional mindset and are less materialistic as even a poor person in the USA lives better than most poor people in the world.

Well it sounds like you understand a lot of the situation already. You're right: young American women are the way you described, generally speaking. There are alway exceptions. Young women today have been brought up being told they are special princesses and that any man would be lucky to have them. The state will take care of their needs for protection and security, and they don't think they really need a man. In fact, it's funny to them that men are so desperate for intimacy with them given how badly they can treat the men. Society (movies, TV, music, news, schools, organizations, etc) support girls over boys and cheer on promiscuity of girls. There is no social stigma and no consequence for a girl's promiscuity. But it's also in the church, too. We still have a patriarchal church where the men do have all the administrative power, and they think they will get accolades and praise if they appear to cheer on women's rights, even within the church. It's a little of the White Knight syndrome.

However, not all women have adopted this "girl power" mindset, so you have to go where they are and be attractive to them. The girls you are looking for are not in the big cities or in any liberal-dominated area. They are not in Utah or any Western state. They are in the plains states and the south, away from the big cities (generally). You probably have grown up with messages about how you should not judge people, be a helper, defer to others, be nice, and don't cause contention. That has tried to emasculate you. Masculinity is not the opposite of nice. Do not be a pushover. Do not whine. A true strong man has the capability to be dangerous but is self-disciplined and directs his strength for good. We have too many weak men. We need strong men. But strong men are seen as dangerous, whereas strong women are seen as courageous. Ignore the messaging. You need to generate as much personal power in yourself as you can. You need to defer to God, your parents, and no one else. Help others, but on your own terms. You need to improve your physical strength. You need to learn self defense. You need ambition, and a sense of mission. You need to realize that although you have weaknesses and flaws, you will constantly improve. No comments or snickers from other people will crush your momentum. You don't need the approval of women. You need to be anxiously engaged in a good cause. You need to be quietly self-assured. You need to respect yourself. You need to get out in the woods for awhile. If you do these things, you will change. Your body will change. Your mindset will change. What you project about yourself will change. And no one is going to help you with this, unfortunately. Society doesn't want you to be this way so don't expect help. But, another effect of this is that you will be attractive to most young women, even the ones you don't want. Women still are attracted to confidence, ambition, drive, resilience, determination. So few young men have those attributes now that you'll actually stick out.

Regarding the one older woman you had a thing for. What it sounds like to me is that you got to experience feminine allure and you liked it. She sounds like she knows how to attract a man and she did that to you. She being married and twice your age is a big red flag. You want to be seduced again and aren't finding it. You need to flip the power dynamics that you are expecting in a romantic relationship. You need to be stronger and approached because of your strength (inner and outer) and not because you are a naive young man. I think that relationship was like a free hit of a drug that ultimately isn't going to help you. Don't hope to find a woman who is going to fawn all over you and smother you with affection and love. That's a trap and lots of guys yearning for that kind of attention have been chewed up and split out. Get strong, and the women will be attracted.

GreenPill wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 12:39 pm I’ve read this forum for a while. You people are a lot more rational and understanding than most people I have met in real life. So I want to talk to you about some things that I haven’t even discussed with my family or friends.

I have a serious problem which is the following: I cannot for the life of me find interest in girls my age, whether LDS or not. No I am not gay – I am very straight. However the young women of this generation don’t seem to be like others. There is a certain aura that just seems off. What I mean is that I don’t feel warmth around these young women, nor do I feel any kind of femininity, innocence, or gentleness about them. Rather it seems that these girls have bought into an entirely different idea of what it means to be a female. In my experience they are often vainglorious, aggressive, promiscuous, entitled, fake, vulgar, and ego driven. This can be seen most noticeably on social media.

Now let me be clear that I am not excusing the young men of this generation, who equally leave something to be desired. I am not saying that I am the perfect man, either. However the YW of today should not be excused as innocent of the worldly behaviors that have plagued our generation, they are as entrenched in the world as anyone. Because of this I have a very hard time bringing myself to even attempt dating at this point. It seems like I am only setting myself up for disappointment. In the last few years I have been on a few dates only, and I just never seem to feel a connection to any kind of feminine energy. It makes me sad because I know that the union of male and female is one of the most powerful things in this world.

This is very personal, but I have only really loved one woman before. She was twice my age (mid-early forties), and yes, she loved me back. I don’t care to get in the specifics of how this happened, but yes she was married (the relationship was abusive) and no we did not cross any serous lines. She was an extremely faithful member of the church, beyond any TBM I’ve met, and genuinely a good person who would not betray her faith for anything. Most of all, she was a woman and she acted like it. You might be wondering why I, in my twenties, would have feelings for someone in their forties. The reason is that she was more “girly” than anyone 20 years younger than her. She was kind, pretty, virtuous, genuine, loving, playful, and innocent. She didn’t have to try, she just was.

I know many women like this, and they are all at least 35 years old or so. No I do not have some weird fetish for older women. If I found a girl my age who acted this way then I would fall for her in an instant. But I have yet to find anything resembling this in the young women of today. Acting demure, classy, or even slightly deferential toward any man seems like a foreign concept to them. It is getting to the point where seeing a girl smile is an anomaly- they’re always mad about something. I find that it’s harder to act like a man when they behave this way; it rather makes me just want to give up and not even try to interact with them. I don’t think that my standards are high; they would be considered normal 25 years ago before feminism, social media, and hormone-imbalance chemicals have destroyed all that is good and wholesome.

And as I said, this is a problem with the world, but LDS women are not immune. The only thing that really separates our religion’s maidens is the added layer of entitlement and self pedestalizing. The aura of self-importance is simply nauseating at this point, particularly for those YW who have served missions. I had a sister missionary tell me that missions are more of a sacrifice for women than they are for men because “unlike Elders, we don’t have to go.” Mormon girls casually tell me how they will not date any man unless they “have served a mission, are over 5’11 tall, make over $150k, are fit, have a good face, and give me everything I want.” Even though I possess some, but certainly not all, of these prerequisites, the mentality strikes me as very vapid and worldly, which is the real turn-off.

Now I must say that all this is just as much men’s faults for their “simp” like behavior as anything else. From prophet to deacon, modern men bend over backwards to provide any amount of positive attention, opportunity, and material contributions to women in the hopes that some of it will be reciprocated in the form of romantic interest (to no avail, obviously.) This in turn has spoiled women, giving them de facto permission to act this way with no consequences. So while this post may seem like a laundry list of complaints against women, the reality is that I am angry towards men for letting it get this bad.

We as men have allowed ourselves to be completely dominated by women in every sphere of existence, and because of this, both sexes are miserable. It’s time to remember that God created man and women with specific roles, and this is the way we are to be happy and productive. When we deviate from them, we become bitter, miserable, and hateful toward the other. I have committed to be a better man so that, if there still exists some girl out there with a shred of femininity, I will be ready to be a worthy husband for her. Until then, I don’t know what else to do.

You 're obviously looking for affirmation that your views about women are correct, but I don't see how you can justify your complaining when you have only dated a few girls in the last few years. You also have never been married, which you really need to be before you can make an assessment of how you think a woman should behave. (And the fact that so many men feel compelled to tell women how they should behave, just shows that they're bitter that they can't have what they want from women and feel entitled to a certain kind of woman.)

A feminine, confident woman, becomes more that way as she receives positive attention from men, and learns from her behavior. I have two teenage daughters, and they are very immature socially compared to myself or any 40 year old woman. A 35-45 year old woman, if she is somewhat attractive, has a lot of confidence and knows how to attract any man she wants to attract. I had a few 17 year old priests "fall in love" with me when I was 35, so I know what you are talking about, and it's simply a case of an attractive mature woman who exudes confidence and knows that smiling a lot, being happy and content, yet not being forward and overly friendly, will attract men. Once this 40 year old woman sensed that you were attracted to her, it made her even more confident around you and she probably tried to please you by acting friendly when you happened to be around. You may only encounter this kind of maturity in a very attractive young adult woman. Most young single women my guess are very insecure and are not going to act very "feminine," whatever that means to you, because they are scared of doing the wrong thing around men and haven't learned self-control, or they haven't learned that it's best to sometimes act demurely.

My advice is not to look for what a woman can give to you, but what you can offer to a woman. You can make a woman confident by giving her they right kind of unconditional love (no, I don't mean giving her everything she wants.) But If you carry this negative attitude going forward, you will never be attractive to any woman once she sees the real you - someone who feels like he deserves the flirty attention he received from the attractive 40 year old, and other "feminine" behaviors. I would focus on being the kind of person you want to attract, improving yourself, having faith, and having your eye single to the glory of God first, and "all these things" will be given you, if your focus is on serving the Lord first, and stop worrying about how awful women have become. Our focus should be loving and serving in the church, so that you will meet the right person, for that is the best way to meet good people is to serve tirelessly in the church.

Date older women. I don't see what the big deal is. Women usually outlive men anyway so maybe it would be a better match.

Just my (female) perspective.

I was raised in a non-Mormon family. Born in PA and raised east coast. Spent some time working in NY. My circle was definitely liberal Left, woke, and 'feminist' in the worst sense.

It was only when I started to fall in love with the guy I eventually married (TBM) and had long talks with him and his youngest brother (active in the MGTOW movement) that I started to realize that feminism had become a cover for a wholesale campaign to demonize and disempower masculinity.

So, I have totally changed my views on the male/female dynamic in the last seven or eight years. I see modern feminism as a fraud.

But I don't think the solution is to get women to 'submit' to men or to become childlike and dependent. Or finding wives from foreign countries who will be basically accustomed to being abused. That's just perpetuating more wrongness. I think the solution is genuine equality., where men and women don't require stereotypes to conform to but can simply be themselves.

Left to ourselves we all will find a natural role and neither sex will feel oppressed or subservient to the other.

I second what Sarah has said. No complaints with the following quote from her because I think I know what she means.

" Most young single women my guess are very insecure and are not going to act very "feminine," whatever that means to you, because they are scared of doing the wrong thing around men and haven't learned self-control, or they haven't learned that it's best to sometimes act demurely."

I only bring up this because it is important that the girl is not just ACTING a certain way but is in reality that kind of person. I have met plenty of people who have acted a certain way but the act falls away with time and the real person comes out. The only way to avoid this and a subsequent painful life is to take your time and not get married after a whirlwind romance.

Go ahead and date the TBM girls your age, who cares if you have different views. My wife and her family are all TBM and we all get along great, I don't push my truther views on any of them, although I do drop little red pills every now and then with a smile on my face. You're never going to find a girl that aligns exactly with your beliefs, and even if you did that probably wouldn't be ideal. Look for a girl that you're attracted to that wants to be a wife and mother, don't act like a simp, take care of yourself physically and you'll attract a good feminine girl and the rest will sort itself out.

gradles21 wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 2:59 pm Go ahead and date the TBM girls your age, who cares if you have different views. My wife and her family are all TBM and we all get along great, I don't push my truther views on any of them, although I do drop little red pills every now and then with a smile on my face. You're never going to find a girl that aligns exactly with your beliefs, and even if you did that probably wouldn't be ideal. Look for a girl that you're attracted to that wants to be a wife and mother, don't act like a simp, take care of yourself physically and you'll attract a good feminine girl and the rest will sort itself out.

This post is speaking to me a lot. Thanks for sharing this.

GreenPill wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 12:39 pm I’ve read this forum for a while. You people are a lot more rational and understanding than most people I have met in real life. So I want to talk to you about some things that I haven’t even discussed with my family or friends.

I have a serious problem which is the following: I cannot for the life of me find interest in girls my age, whether LDS or not. No I am not gay – I am very straight. However the young women of this generation don’t seem to be like others. There is a certain aura that just seems off. What I mean is that I don’t feel warmth around these young women, nor do I feel any kind of femininity, innocence, or gentleness about them. Rather it seems that these girls have bought into an entirely different idea of what it means to be a female. In my experience they are often vainglorious, aggressive, promiscuous, entitled, fake, vulgar, and ego driven. This can be seen most noticeably on social media.

Now let me be clear that I am not excusing the young men of this generation, who equally leave something to be desired. I am not saying that I am the perfect man, either. However the YW of today should not be excused as innocent of the worldly behaviors that have plagued our generation, they are as entrenched in the world as anyone. Because of this I have a very hard time bringing myself to even attempt dating at this point. It seems like I am only setting myself up for disappointment. In the last few years I have been on a few dates only, and I just never seem to feel a connection to any kind of feminine energy. It makes me sad because I know that the union of male and female is one of the most powerful things in this world.

This is very personal, but I have only really loved one woman before. She was twice my age (mid-early forties), and yes, she loved me back. I don’t care to get in the specifics of how this happened, but yes she was married (the relationship was abusive) and no we did not cross any serous lines. She was an extremely faithful member of the church, beyond any TBM I’ve met, and genuinely a good person who would not betray her faith for anything. Most of all, she was a woman and she acted like it. You might be wondering why I, in my twenties, would have feelings for someone in their forties. The reason is that she was more “girly” than anyone 20 years younger than her. She was kind, pretty, virtuous, genuine, loving, playful, and innocent. She didn’t have to try, she just was.

I know many women like this, and they are all at least 35 years old or so. No I do not have some weird fetish for older women. If I found a girl my age who acted this way then I would fall for her in an instant. But I have yet to find anything resembling this in the young women of today. Acting demure, classy, or even slightly deferential toward any man seems like a foreign concept to them. It is getting to the point where seeing a girl smile is an anomaly- they’re always mad about something. I find that it’s harder to act like a man when they behave this way; it rather makes me just want to give up and not even try to interact with them. I don’t think that my standards are high; they would be considered normal 25 years ago before feminism, social media, and hormone-imbalance chemicals have destroyed all that is good and wholesome.

And as I said, this is a problem with the world, but LDS women are not immune. The only thing that really separates our religion’s maidens is the added layer of entitlement and self pedestalizing. The aura of self-importance is simply nauseating at this point, particularly for those YW who have served missions. I had a sister missionary tell me that missions are more of a sacrifice for women than they are for men because “unlike Elders, we don’t have to go.” Mormon girls casually tell me how they will not date any man unless they “have served a mission, are over 5’11 tall, make over $150k, are fit, have a good face, and give me everything I want.” Even though I possess some, but certainly not all, of these prerequisites, the mentality strikes me as very vapid and worldly, which is the real turn-off.

Now I must say that all this is just as much men’s faults for their “simp” like behavior as anything else. From prophet to deacon, modern men bend over backwards to provide any amount of positive attention, opportunity, and material contributions to women in the hopes that some of it will be reciprocated in the form of romantic interest (to no avail, obviously.) This in turn has spoiled women, giving them de facto permission to act this way with no consequences. So while this post may seem like a laundry list of complaints against women, the reality is that I am angry towards men for letting it get this bad.

We as men have allowed ourselves to be completely dominated by women in every sphere of existence, and because of this, both sexes are miserable. It’s time to remember that God created man and women with specific roles, and this is the way we are to be happy and productive. When we deviate from them, we become bitter, miserable, and hateful toward the other. I have committed to be a better man so that, if there still exists some girl out there with a shred of femininity, I will be ready to be a worthy husband for her. Until then, I don’t know what else to do.

Our family is much like you describe.

I tell my sons and daughters: be who your are and look for what you want with confidence.
So many people walk and talk like the crowd. Even though the the fact that the people you want for spouses are fewer in number seems like a disadvantage, what it really means is that they should stick out in a crowd, in a good way, making it easier to find.

The wife you want exists. Pray for her. Pray to find her. Pray for her learning and experiences. Pray for her parents, her associations, teachers, coworkers, friends, anyone who may have influence on her.

Pray for yourself, on her behalf. Pray for your learning and experiences. Pray for your parents, associates, teachers, etc.

Be yourself, but be your best self. You will find her and your union will be a blessing to you, your children and the world. Think of the children you can raise together, with a wife you can trust.

Don't lose faith, expect miracles.

Thanks for this post! I didn't realize there were other guys on this site in that situation. I would like to ask another question for anyone who wants to answer. What are some suggestions on how to find dates? I am out of school, work from home, and cannot make online dating work. Social media has become so cancerous to our society that a significant number of women will not date men unless they have enough followers on Instagram. That is not a joke. I personally don't do any social media and don't really want to start just so I have enough clout for a date.

GreenPill wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 12:39 pm I’ve read this forum for a while. You people are a lot more rational and understanding than most people I have met in real life. So I want to talk to you about some things that I haven’t even discussed with my family or friends.

I have a serious problem which is the following: I cannot for the life of me find interest in girls my age, whether LDS or not. No I am not gay – I am very straight. However the young women of this generation don’t seem to be like others. There is a certain aura that just seems off. What I mean is that I don’t feel warmth around these young women, nor do I feel any kind of femininity, innocence, or gentleness about them. Rather it seems that these girls have bought into an entirely different idea of what it means to be a female. In my experience they are often vainglorious, aggressive, promiscuous, entitled, fake, vulgar, and ego driven. This can be seen most noticeably on social media.

Now let me be clear that I am not excusing the young men of this generation, who equally leave something to be desired. I am not saying that I am the perfect man, either. However the YW of today should not be excused as innocent of the worldly behaviors that have plagued our generation, they are as entrenched in the world as anyone. Because of this I have a very hard time bringing myself to even attempt dating at this point. It seems like I am only setting myself up for disappointment. In the last few years I have been on a few dates only, and I just never seem to feel a connection to any kind of feminine energy. It makes me sad because I know that the union of male and female is one of the most powerful things in this world.

This is very personal, but I have only really loved one woman before. She was twice my age (mid-early forties), and yes, she loved me back. I don’t care to get in the specifics of how this happened, but yes she was married (the relationship was abusive) and no we did not cross any serous lines. She was an extremely faithful member of the church, beyond any TBM I’ve met, and genuinely a good person who would not betray her faith for anything. Most of all, she was a woman and she acted like it. You might be wondering why I, in my twenties, would have feelings for someone in their forties. The reason is that she was more “girly” than anyone 20 years younger than her. She was kind, pretty, virtuous, genuine, loving, playful, and innocent. She didn’t have to try, she just was.

I know many women like this, and they are all at least 35 years old or so. No I do not have some weird fetish for older women. If I found a girl my age who acted this way then I would fall for her in an instant. But I have yet to find anything resembling this in the young women of today. Acting demure, classy, or even slightly deferential toward any man seems like a foreign concept to them. It is getting to the point where seeing a girl smile is an anomaly- they’re always mad about something. I find that it’s harder to act like a man when they behave this way; it rather makes me just want to give up and not even try to interact with them. I don’t think that my standards are high; they would be considered normal 25 years ago before feminism, social media, and hormone-imbalance chemicals have destroyed all that is good and wholesome.

And as I said, this is a problem with the world, but LDS women are not immune. The only thing that really separates our religion’s maidens is the added layer of entitlement and self pedestalizing. The aura of self-importance is simply nauseating at this point, particularly for those YW who have served missions. I had a sister missionary tell me that missions are more of a sacrifice for women than they are for men because “unlike Elders, we don’t have to go.” Mormon girls casually tell me how they will not date any man unless they “have served a mission, are over 5’11 tall, make over $150k, are fit, have a good face, and give me everything I want.” Even though I possess some, but certainly not all, of these prerequisites, the mentality strikes me as very vapid and worldly, which is the real turn-off.

Now I must say that all this is just as much men’s faults for their “simp” like behavior as anything else. From prophet to deacon, modern men bend over backwards to provide any amount of positive attention, opportunity, and material contributions to women in the hopes that some of it will be reciprocated in the form of romantic interest (to no avail, obviously.) This in turn has spoiled women, giving them de facto permission to act this way with no consequences. So while this post may seem like a laundry list of complaints against women, the reality is that I am angry towards men for letting it get this bad.

We as men have allowed ourselves to be completely dominated by women in every sphere of existence, and because of this, both sexes are miserable. It’s time to remember that God created man and women with specific roles, and this is the way we are to be happy and productive. When we deviate from them, we become bitter, miserable, and hateful toward the other. I have committed to be a better man so that, if there still exists some girl out there with a shred of femininity, I will be ready to be a worthy husband for her. Until then, I don’t know what else to do.

I am so sorry about your situation and your feelings are 100% rational and understandable. I would like to offer some simple words.

You would be surprised, but there are girls that fit your description that feel they are in the same boat. But these girls are rare, I know two personally. They are very awake and they both feel as if they will never marry because they will never find a guy who has gone through and seen the illusion of what is currently happening in the world and in the LDS church. These girls are feminine, they are fit, and they have very high expectations. They do not care if they ever marry in the temple or not. They only want a man that is handsome, fit, and loves the Savior more than anything else in their lives. I know I mentioned the physical characteristics first, but I do so because these girls do take care of themselves. They do not care for temple marriages, even though both were raised in the church and understand what is required of them. They are seeking a man who is willing to sacrifice false traditions and false doctrine to find the Savior. They also want a man who is not vaccinated. This is very important for them. You will find them, but these girls are not on social media and you will usually only hear about them through word-of-mouth because they are reserved and must hide their beliefs around other LDS young adults. They will stand out when they share their testimonies, but will be criticized for not wearing a mask or for what is perceived going against the prophet. I can assure you that these young women exist in there are more waking up. But I myself treasure these two young women I know and protect them with all my heart, because I know they are rare. Pray and I am sure the Lord will put you in the situation to find them.

Althea wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 5:40 pm

GreenPill wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 12:39 pm I’ve read this forum for a while. You people are a lot more rational and understanding than most people I have met in real life. So I want to talk to you about some things that I haven’t even discussed with my family or friends.

I have a serious problem which is the following: I cannot for the life of me find interest in girls my age, whether LDS or not. No I am not gay – I am very straight. However the young women of this generation don’t seem to be like others. There is a certain aura that just seems off. What I mean is that I don’t feel warmth around these young women, nor do I feel any kind of femininity, innocence, or gentleness about them. Rather it seems that these girls have bought into an entirely different idea of what it means to be a female. In my experience they are often vainglorious, aggressive, promiscuous, entitled, fake, vulgar, and ego driven. This can be seen most noticeably on social media.

Now let me be clear that I am not excusing the young men of this generation, who equally leave something to be desired. I am not saying that I am the perfect man, either. However the YW of today should not be excused as innocent of the worldly behaviors that have plagued our generation, they are as entrenched in the world as anyone. Because of this I have a very hard time bringing myself to even attempt dating at this point. It seems like I am only setting myself up for disappointment. In the last few years I have been on a few dates only, and I just never seem to feel a connection to any kind of feminine energy. It makes me sad because I know that the union of male and female is one of the most powerful things in this world.

This is very personal, but I have only really loved one woman before. She was twice my age (mid-early forties), and yes, she loved me back. I don’t care to get in the specifics of how this happened, but yes she was married (the relationship was abusive) and no we did not cross any serous lines. She was an extremely faithful member of the church, beyond any TBM I’ve met, and genuinely a good person who would not betray her faith for anything. Most of all, she was a woman and she acted like it. You might be wondering why I, in my twenties, would have feelings for someone in their forties. The reason is that she was more “girly” than anyone 20 years younger than her. She was kind, pretty, virtuous, genuine, loving, playful, and innocent. She didn’t have to try, she just was.

I know many women like this, and they are all at least 35 years old or so. No I do not have some weird fetish for older women. If I found a girl my age who acted this way then I would fall for her in an instant. But I have yet to find anything resembling this in the young women of today. Acting demure, classy, or even slightly deferential toward any man seems like a foreign concept to them. It is getting to the point where seeing a girl smile is an anomaly- they’re always mad about something. I find that it’s harder to act like a man when they behave this way; it rather makes me just want to give up and not even try to interact with them. I don’t think that my standards are high; they would be considered normal 25 years ago before feminism, social media, and hormone-imbalance chemicals have destroyed all that is good and wholesome.

And as I said, this is a problem with the world, but LDS women are not immune. The only thing that really separates our religion’s maidens is the added layer of entitlement and self pedestalizing. The aura of self-importance is simply nauseating at this point, particularly for those YW who have served missions. I had a sister missionary tell me that missions are more of a sacrifice for women than they are for men because “unlike Elders, we don’t have to go.” Mormon girls casually tell me how they will not date any man unless they “have served a mission, are over 5’11 tall, make over $150k, are fit, have a good face, and give me everything I want.” Even though I possess some, but certainly not all, of these prerequisites, the mentality strikes me as very vapid and worldly, which is the real turn-off.

Now I must say that all this is just as much men’s faults for their “simp” like behavior as anything else. From prophet to deacon, modern men bend over backwards to provide any amount of positive attention, opportunity, and material contributions to women in the hopes that some of it will be reciprocated in the form of romantic interest (to no avail, obviously.) This in turn has spoiled women, giving them de facto permission to act this way with no consequences. So while this post may seem like a laundry list of complaints against women, the reality is that I am angry towards men for letting it get this bad.

We as men have allowed ourselves to be completely dominated by women in every sphere of existence, and because of this, both sexes are miserable. It’s time to remember that God created man and women with specific roles, and this is the way we are to be happy and productive. When we deviate from them, we become bitter, miserable, and hateful toward the other. I have committed to be a better man so that, if there still exists some girl out there with a shred of femininity, I will be ready to be a worthy husband for her. Until then, I don’t know what else to do.

I am so sorry about your situation and your feelings are 100% rational and understandable. I would like to offer some simple words.

You would be surprised, but there are girls that fit your description that feel they are in the same boat. But these girls are rare, I know two personally. They are very awake and they both feel as if they will never marry because they will never find a guy who has gone through and seen the illusion of what is currently happening in the world and in the LDS church. These girls are feminine, they are fit, and they have very high expectations. They do not care if they ever marry in the temple or not. They only want a man that is handsome, fit, and loves the Savior more than anything else in their lives. I know I mentioned the physical characteristics first, but I do so because these girls do take care of themselves. They do not care for temple marriages, even though both were raised in the church and understand what is required of them. They are seeking a man who is willing to sacrifice false traditions and false doctrine to find the Savior. They also want a man who is not vaccinated. This is very important for them. You will find them, but these girls are not on social media and you will usually only hear about them through word-of-mouth because they are reserved and must hide their beliefs around other LDS young adults. They will stand out when they share their testimonies, but will be criticized for not wearing a mask or for what is perceived going against the prophet. I can assure you that these young women exist in there are more waking up. But I myself treasure these two young women I know and protect them with all my heart, because I know they are rare. Pray and I am sure the Lord will put you in the situation to find them.

Sounds like my kinda wimmens (maybe can send one my way! )
Seriously though, it is awesome to hear that some of the younger adults do have their heads on straight and are 'seeing' what's going on

Cruiserdude wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 5:48 pm

Althea wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 5:40 pm

GreenPill wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 12:39 pm I’ve read this forum for a while. You people are a lot more rational and understanding than most people I have met in real life. So I want to talk to you about some things that I haven’t even discussed with my family or friends.

I have a serious problem which is the following: I cannot for the life of me find interest in girls my age, whether LDS or not. No I am not gay – I am very straight. However the young women of this generation don’t seem to be like others. There is a certain aura that just seems off. What I mean is that I don’t feel warmth around these young women, nor do I feel any kind of femininity, innocence, or gentleness about them. Rather it seems that these girls have bought into an entirely different idea of what it means to be a female. In my experience they are often vainglorious, aggressive, promiscuous, entitled, fake, vulgar, and ego driven. This can be seen most noticeably on social media.

Now let me be clear that I am not excusing the young men of this generation, who equally leave something to be desired. I am not saying that I am the perfect man, either. However the YW of today should not be excused as innocent of the worldly behaviors that have plagued our generation, they are as entrenched in the world as anyone. Because of this I have a very hard time bringing myself to even attempt dating at this point. It seems like I am only setting myself up for disappointment. In the last few years I have been on a few dates only, and I just never seem to feel a connection to any kind of feminine energy. It makes me sad because I know that the union of male and female is one of the most powerful things in this world.

This is very personal, but I have only really loved one woman before. She was twice my age (mid-early forties), and yes, she loved me back. I don’t care to get in the specifics of how this happened, but yes she was married (the relationship was abusive) and no we did not cross any serous lines. She was an extremely faithful member of the church, beyond any TBM I’ve met, and genuinely a good person who would not betray her faith for anything. Most of all, she was a woman and she acted like it. You might be wondering why I, in my twenties, would have feelings for someone in their forties. The reason is that she was more “girly” than anyone 20 years younger than her. She was kind, pretty, virtuous, genuine, loving, playful, and innocent. She didn’t have to try, she just was.

I know many women like this, and they are all at least 35 years old or so. No I do not have some weird fetish for older women. If I found a girl my age who acted this way then I would fall for her in an instant. But I have yet to find anything resembling this in the young women of today. Acting demure, classy, or even slightly deferential toward any man seems like a foreign concept to them. It is getting to the point where seeing a girl smile is an anomaly- they’re always mad about something. I find that it’s harder to act like a man when they behave this way; it rather makes me just want to give up and not even try to interact with them. I don’t think that my standards are high; they would be considered normal 25 years ago before feminism, social media, and hormone-imbalance chemicals have destroyed all that is good and wholesome.

And as I said, this is a problem with the world, but LDS women are not immune. The only thing that really separates our religion’s maidens is the added layer of entitlement and self pedestalizing. The aura of self-importance is simply nauseating at this point, particularly for those YW who have served missions. I had a sister missionary tell me that missions are more of a sacrifice for women than they are for men because “unlike Elders, we don’t have to go.” Mormon girls casually tell me how they will not date any man unless they “have served a mission, are over 5’11 tall, make over $150k, are fit, have a good face, and give me everything I want.” Even though I possess some, but certainly not all, of these prerequisites, the mentality strikes me as very vapid and worldly, which is the real turn-off.

Now I must say that all this is just as much men’s faults for their “simp” like behavior as anything else. From prophet to deacon, modern men bend over backwards to provide any amount of positive attention, opportunity, and material contributions to women in the hopes that some of it will be reciprocated in the form of romantic interest (to no avail, obviously.) This in turn has spoiled women, giving them de facto permission to act this way with no consequences. So while this post may seem like a laundry list of complaints against women, the reality is that I am angry towards men for letting it get this bad.

We as men have allowed ourselves to be completely dominated by women in every sphere of existence, and because of this, both sexes are miserable. It’s time to remember that God created man and women with specific roles, and this is the way we are to be happy and productive. When we deviate from them, we become bitter, miserable, and hateful toward the other. I have committed to be a better man so that, if there still exists some girl out there with a shred of femininity, I will be ready to be a worthy husband for her. Until then, I don’t know what else to do.

I am so sorry about your situation and your feelings are 100% rational and understandable. I would like to offer some simple words.

You would be surprised, but there are girls that fit your description that feel they are in the same boat. But these girls are rare, I know two personally. They are very awake and they both feel as if they will never marry because they will never find a guy who has gone through and seen the illusion of what is currently happening in the world and in the LDS church. These girls are feminine, they are fit, and they have very high expectations. They do not care if they ever marry in the temple or not. They only want a man that is handsome, fit, and loves the Savior more than anything else in their lives. I know I mentioned the physical characteristics first, but I do so because these girls do take care of themselves. They do not care for temple marriages, even though both were raised in the church and understand what is required of them. They are seeking a man who is willing to sacrifice false traditions and false doctrine to find the Savior. They also want a man who is not vaccinated. This is very important for them. You will find them, but these girls are not on social media and you will usually only hear about them through word-of-mouth because they are reserved and must hide their beliefs around other LDS young adults. They will stand out when they share their testimonies, but will be criticized for not wearing a mask or for what is perceived going against the prophet. I can assure you that these young women exist in there are more waking up. But I myself treasure these two young women I know and protect them with all my heart, because I know they are rare. Pray and I am sure the Lord will put you in the situation to find them.

Sounds like my kinda wimmens (maybe can send one my way! )
Seriously though, it is awesome to hear that some of the younger adults do have their heads on straight and are 'seeing' what's going on

I can assure you if you are seeking them, the Lord will connect you to them, but you must seek Him first.

How these two young ladies became friends is a miracle in it of itself. The Lord is connecting people who are waking up. And he is doing it in unconventional ways. I promise you, this generation of young adults have some of the strongest testimonies I have ever seen. But as they awaken, my generation doesn't know how to perceive their boldness and audacity. Because of my situation, I interact with young people. And once they know I am awake, they seem to seek answers. I am sure the Spirit will guide you to speak the correct words that you must, so that a young lady will know that you think just like her. I am sorry though, they are very rare indeed.

Thankfully, at my stage of the game (pushing 60), I am not in OP's situation. And if I were, I think it would be a real challenge, because in my view finding a well-grounded, feminine American female, with any kind of traditional values at this point would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. If I were in those shoes, I would definitely be looking in some pretty unconventional places, and I probably wouldn't waste much time looking in LDS circles, where there are a few well-grounded TBM females -- who are generally insufferable -- or just the opposite, who are generally very woke, feminist (not feminine), and likewise equally insufferable. And then there are the lukewarm 80% who don't really know whether they are coming or going, who just go along to get along, trying to do everything they can to fit in with the modern, materialistic and socialistic world.

But there's an old saying that fits the bill here: "It's awfully simple if you know how (where), and simply awful if you don't." On that score, you've just got to know where to look -- in some pretty unconventional places.

Just keep being you and keep improving yourself. The right girl WILL come along. In the meantime, build yourself a solid foundation. Plenty of girls will begin to take notice and the right girl will be yours for the asking.

Seek ye first, FIRST, the Kingdom of God and all things (wife) will be added....

GreenPill wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 12:39 pm I’ve read this forum for a while. You people are a lot more rational and understanding than most people I have met in real life. So I want to talk to you about some things that I haven’t even discussed with my family or friends.

I have a serious problem which is the following: I cannot for the life of me find interest in girls my age, whether LDS or not. No I am not gay – I am very straight. However the young women of this generation don’t seem to be like others. There is a certain aura that just seems off. What I mean is that I don’t feel warmth around these young women, nor do I feel any kind of femininity, innocence, or gentleness about them. Rather it seems that these girls have bought into an entirely different idea of what it means to be a female. In my experience they are often vainglorious, aggressive, promiscuous, entitled, fake, vulgar, and ego driven. This can be seen most noticeably on social media.

Now let me be clear that I am not excusing the young men of this generation, who equally leave something to be desired. I am not saying that I am the perfect man, either. However the YW of today should not be excused as innocent of the worldly behaviors that have plagued our generation, they are as entrenched in the world as anyone. Because of this I have a very hard time bringing myself to even attempt dating at this point. It seems like I am only setting myself up for disappointment. In the last few years I have been on a few dates only, and I just never seem to feel a connection to any kind of feminine energy. It makes me sad because I know that the union of male and female is one of the most powerful things in this world.

This is very personal, but I have only really loved one woman before. She was twice my age (mid-early forties), and yes, she loved me back. I don’t care to get in the specifics of how this happened, but yes she was married (the relationship was abusive) and no we did not cross any serous lines. She was an extremely faithful member of the church, beyond any TBM I’ve met, and genuinely a good person who would not betray her faith for anything. Most of all, she was a woman and she acted like it. You might be wondering why I, in my twenties, would have feelings for someone in their forties. The reason is that she was more “girly” than anyone 20 years younger than her. She was kind, pretty, virtuous, genuine, loving, playful, and innocent. She didn’t have to try, she just was.

I know many women like this, and they are all at least 35 years old or so. No I do not have some weird fetish for older women. If I found a girl my age who acted this way then I would fall for her in an instant. But I have yet to find anything resembling this in the young women of today. Acting demure, classy, or even slightly deferential toward any man seems like a foreign concept to them. It is getting to the point where seeing a girl smile is an anomaly- they’re always mad about something. I find that it’s harder to act like a man when they behave this way; it rather makes me just want to give up and not even try to interact with them. I don’t think that my standards are high; they would be considered normal 25 years ago before feminism, social media, and hormone-imbalance chemicals have destroyed all that is good and wholesome.

And as I said, this is a problem with the world, but LDS women are not immune. The only thing that really separates our religion’s maidens is the added layer of entitlement and self pedestalizing. The aura of self-importance is simply nauseating at this point, particularly for those YW who have served missions. I had a sister missionary tell me that missions are more of a sacrifice for women than they are for men because “unlike Elders, we don’t have to go.” Mormon girls casually tell me how they will not date any man unless they “have served a mission, are over 5’11 tall, make over $150k, are fit, have a good face, and give me everything I want.” Even though I possess some, but certainly not all, of these prerequisites, the mentality strikes me as very vapid and worldly, which is the real turn-off.

Now I must say that all this is just as much men’s faults for their “simp” like behavior as anything else. From prophet to deacon, modern men bend over backwards to provide any amount of positive attention, opportunity, and material contributions to women in the hopes that some of it will be reciprocated in the form of romantic interest (to no avail, obviously.) This in turn has spoiled women, giving them de facto permission to act this way with no consequences. So while this post may seem like a laundry list of complaints against women, the reality is that I am angry towards men for letting it get this bad.

We as men have allowed ourselves to be completely dominated by women in every sphere of existence, and because of this, both sexes are miserable. It’s time to remember that God created man and women with specific roles, and this is the way we are to be happy and productive. When we deviate from them, we become bitter, miserable, and hateful toward the other. I have committed to be a better man so that, if there still exists some girl out there with a shred of femininity, I will be ready to be a worthy husband for her. Until then, I don’t know what else to do.

Believe it or not.

None of this is new.

Most girls dream about finding a handsome rich guy.

To show off to the other girls.

And make them jealous.

In the 70s, the popular girls wanted drugs.

To date them, you had to have a cool car and money for drugs.

I had no car, no money and didn't care for drugs.

But I was good looking.

Girls were just as promiscuous then as they are now.

They just kept it secret.

Slut shaming was real.

Now being a slut is popular.

So they don't hide it as much.

Guys have always been willing to be promiscuous.

But girls decide if they get to be, or not.

Listen to the ladies here when they warn you about the older gals.

They are right.

The problem isn't that girls are more masculine.

It's that too many men are more feminine.

If you want a feminine female, be more masculine.

Personally, I sucked at dating.

It seemed so shallow to me.

I feel sorry for the girls I dated in my teen years.

What a dope.

But I was masculine.

I got hit on a few times.

No clue.

I was naive.

You are naive too.

You think women mean what they say.

Not so much, I have seen females throw away all of their hard and fast rules and beliefs for the "right" guy.

Be the right guy.

You already know how.

Ponder out exactly what you want in a mate.

Tell God when you are ready.

He will reveal her to you.

The rest is up to you.

Simple?

Yup.

It worked for me.

And I was an idiot.

Still am.

You got this.

Sir H

mes5464 wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 2:04 pm I know a few men how looked for LDS girls overseas, mostly under developed countries. They tend to have a more traditional mindset and are less materialistic as even a poor person in the USA lives better than most poor people in the world.

A word of caution, you need to really need to know what you are getting into though. My ex was from a foreign country, things did not end well.

A few things to be aware of, for anyone dating outside of the Country:

- Some Cultures expect you to take care of the entire family. (I.e. You'll be their free ATM machine). So, be sure to establish your relationship right from the beginning of what your boundaries are.

- Many Cultures do not understand Sarcasm or Analogies at all. They take these things very literally and can cause serious marital disputes.

- Be aware of where you will live and how this will impact your spouse. Many marriages have ended badly because the Spouse marries you for the wrong reasons, becomes Americanized. Takes you for everything you are worth, and leaves you for someone else. Possible solutions are to live in their country or live in their country for X amount of months each year, then x amount of months Stateside.

- Cultural Differences. This depends a lot on what Country, and/or Providence you are talking about. I'd advise really getting to know the culture inside and out. Bonus: Learn to speak and communicate in their language, you'd be surprised how useful this can be. At the very least you'll know what they are saying about you. I'd advise you to not let on early on in the relationship that you even know the language. You'll learn a lot about what she really thinks about you.

- Take your time getting to know who you are dating. Some women outside of the US are desperate to change their life circumstances and will marry just about anyone to improve their situation. You need to really know that you are getting married for the right reasons and that you aren't just being used. Know what your deal breakers are, and what you are comfortable with within the relationship.

Just a few things to consider when dating outside of the US. In fact, some of this applies to dating in general.

Sarah wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 2:28 pm

GreenPill wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 12:39 pm I’ve read this forum for a while. You people are a lot more rational and understanding than most people I have met in real life. So I want to talk to you about some things that I haven’t even discussed with my family or friends.

I have a serious problem which is the following: I cannot for the life of me find interest in girls my age, whether LDS or not. No I am not gay – I am very straight. However the young women of this generation don’t seem to be like others. There is a certain aura that just seems off. What I mean is that I don’t feel warmth around these young women, nor do I feel any kind of femininity, innocence, or gentleness about them. Rather it seems that these girls have bought into an entirely different idea of what it means to be a female. In my experience they are often vainglorious, aggressive, promiscuous, entitled, fake, vulgar, and ego driven. This can be seen most noticeably on social media.

Now let me be clear that I am not excusing the young men of this generation, who equally leave something to be desired. I am not saying that I am the perfect man, either. However the YW of today should not be excused as innocent of the worldly behaviors that have plagued our generation, they are as entrenched in the world as anyone. Because of this I have a very hard time bringing myself to even attempt dating at this point. It seems like I am only setting myself up for disappointment. In the last few years I have been on a few dates only, and I just never seem to feel a connection to any kind of feminine energy. It makes me sad because I know that the union of male and female is one of the most powerful things in this world.

This is very personal, but I have only really loved one woman before. She was twice my age (mid-early forties), and yes, she loved me back. I don’t care to get in the specifics of how this happened, but yes she was married (the relationship was abusive) and no we did not cross any serous lines. She was an extremely faithful member of the church, beyond any TBM I’ve met, and genuinely a good person who would not betray her faith for anything. Most of all, she was a woman and she acted like it. You might be wondering why I, in my twenties, would have feelings for someone in their forties. The reason is that she was more “girly” than anyone 20 years younger than her. She was kind, pretty, virtuous, genuine, loving, playful, and innocent. She didn’t have to try, she just was.

I know many women like this, and they are all at least 35 years old or so. No I do not have some weird fetish for older women. If I found a girl my age who acted this way then I would fall for her in an instant. But I have yet to find anything resembling this in the young women of today. Acting demure, classy, or even slightly deferential toward any man seems like a foreign concept to them. It is getting to the point where seeing a girl smile is an anomaly- they’re always mad about something. I find that it’s harder to act like a man when they behave this way; it rather makes me just want to give up and not even try to interact with them. I don’t think that my standards are high; they would be considered normal 25 years ago before feminism, social media, and hormone-imbalance chemicals have destroyed all that is good and wholesome.

And as I said, this is a problem with the world, but LDS women are not immune. The only thing that really separates our religion’s maidens is the added layer of entitlement and self pedestalizing. The aura of self-importance is simply nauseating at this point, particularly for those YW who have served missions. I had a sister missionary tell me that missions are more of a sacrifice for women than they are for men because “unlike Elders, we don’t have to go.” Mormon girls casually tell me how they will not date any man unless they “have served a mission, are over 5’11 tall, make over $150k, are fit, have a good face, and give me everything I want.” Even though I possess some, but certainly not all, of these prerequisites, the mentality strikes me as very vapid and worldly, which is the real turn-off.

Now I must say that all this is just as much men’s faults for their “simp” like behavior as anything else. From prophet to deacon, modern men bend over backwards to provide any amount of positive attention, opportunity, and material contributions to women in the hopes that some of it will be reciprocated in the form of romantic interest (to no avail, obviously.) This in turn has spoiled women, giving them de facto permission to act this way with no consequences. So while this post may seem like a laundry list of complaints against women, the reality is that I am angry towards men for letting it get this bad.

We as men have allowed ourselves to be completely dominated by women in every sphere of existence, and because of this, both sexes are miserable. It’s time to remember that God created man and women with specific roles, and this is the way we are to be happy and productive. When we deviate from them, we become bitter, miserable, and hateful toward the other. I have committed to be a better man so that, if there still exists some girl out there with a shred of femininity, I will be ready to be a worthy husband for her. Until then, I don’t know what else to do.

You 're obviously looking for affirmation that your views about women are correct, but I don't see how you can justify your complaining when you have only dated a few girls in the last few years. You also have never been married, which you really need to be before you can make an assessment of how you think a woman should behave. (And the fact that so many men feel compelled to tell women how they should behave, just shows that they're bitter that they can't have what they want from women and feel entitled to a certain kind of woman.)

A feminine, confident woman, becomes more that way as she receives positive attention from men, and learns from her behavior. I have two teenage daughters, and they are very immature socially compared to myself or any 40 year old woman. A 35-45 year old woman, if she is somewhat attractive, has a lot of confidence and knows how to attract any man she wants to attract. I had a few 17 year old priests "fall in love" with me when I was 35, so I know what you are talking about, and it's simply a case of an attractive mature woman who exudes confidence and knows that smiling a lot, being happy and content, yet not being forward and overly friendly, will attract men. Once this 40 year old woman sensed that you were attracted to her, it made her even more confident around you and she probably tried to please you by acting friendly when you happened to be around. You may only encounter this kind of maturity in a very attractive young adult woman. Most young single women my guess are very insecure and are not going to act very "feminine," whatever that means to you, because they are scared of doing the wrong thing around men and haven't learned self-control, or they haven't learned that it's best to sometimes act demurely.

My advice is not to look for what a woman can give to you, but what you can offer to a woman. You can make a woman confident by giving her they right kind of unconditional love (no, I don't mean giving her everything she wants.) But If you carry this negative attitude going forward, you will never be attractive to any woman once she sees the real you - someone who feels like he deserves the flirty attention he received from the attractive 40 year old, and other "feminine" behaviors. I would focus on being the kind of person you want to attract, improving yourself, having faith, and having your eye single to the glory of God first, and "all these things" will be given you, if your focus is on serving the Lord first, and stop worrying about how awful women have become. Our focus should be loving and serving in the church, so that you will meet the right person, for that is the best way to meet good people is to serve tirelessly in the church.

My sons are dealing with this very issue and find it difficult to date any good women in their age group. Here are some of my ponderings.

I've been able to travel extensively outside of the country, and meet people around the world. I will state that finding a good woman outside of the US is 10 times easier than finding one in the US. Trucker's statements above touch on some of the issues, as does the original OP's. Even dating outside of the country has its own set of issues, as I've briefly touched on in my prior post.

Unfortunately, the culture here in the US is not interested in helping produce strong families. In fact, just the opposite, everything in our culture is intent on tearing apart the family unit, you see this everywhere.

Just look at some of what is being perpetuated in our society:

- Women are being constantly told that they don't need a man and that they can do whatever a man can do, and they can do it better. Society is literally attempting to masculinize women and it seems to be working.

- Men are being told that they aren't emotional enough and that they need to be more feminine. Society is literally feminizing men, and emasculating them. This seems to be working too.

- Movies are constantly reversing men's and women's roles to enforce these stereotypes. Among other messages, they are constantly belittling the family unit. They make parents' look like helpless morons, and teenagers are out saving the day; this is to divide and conquer the traditional family unit. Additionally, there is the whole Bad Boy trope going on. Along with all of the other traditional token characters that many tv shows are now pushing ad nauseam.

- Women are now being praised for putting their Careers over their family responsibilities. There are more latch key kids than ever before. Of course, this is a very complicated issue, since it is almost impossible to raise a family on one income any longer. This is what makes the issue more complex, but I guarantee that this situation was created intentionally by TPTB.

- This means many kids are learning for the most part from the following sources: Public School Systems, Movie and TV shows, Music, and from their Peers. It's no wonder most of our kids are messed up in General.

- The public school systems are a complete mess, and I for one would pull my kids out if they were that age. Especially since now, they are starting to push radical leftist agendas such as the 1816 Project, and Sex Education for Elementary Students. SMH I realized a while ago that schools are very good for one thing, that is to indoctrinate people into being good little worker bees, following instructions, and doing what they are told. That's great if you want to be making widgets for the rest of your life or just work a traditional job. Welcome to indentured slavery, al0ong with all that comes along with it.

However, the best thing about this Country is Capitalism. I tend to agree with Robert Kiyosaki, who states that College is useless and a big waste of money. If one truly wants to get ahead, everyone has the opportunity to do so, but they aren't going to teach you how to do that by going to school.

- Another huge issue facing our Country is divorce, especially when kids are involved. Why do you think marriages go down each year? I'll tell you why men are literally scared of getting married. Here's why it is a losing proposition for the man. It's a win-win scenario for the woman. The court systems tend to favor the women 99% of the time when it comes to custody cases, and it's almost always the guy that is getting the short end of the stick.

I get tired of hearing the same stories over and over again. The man is faithful, hard-working, and provides for his family. The woman gets bored, cheats, or just wants out of the marriage. So she files for divorce, gets full custody, child support half of all of the assets, and keeps the house. Then her boyfriend moves in with her a couple of weeks later. In the meantime, the poor man is picking up another job just to make ends meet, and his kids think he doesn't care for them because he's never around (maybe because he is working 2-3 jobs). This is one of many unfair things in the judicial system that ought to be changed. Supposedly, some women claim they want equality, yet most really don't, only when it benefits them not put them on equal footing with men where it would be a detriment.

- Here is an interesting experiment. Go on any dating site in the US, and start taking a look at the extensive list of what a lot of these women expect, and what they have to bring to the table. Then compare this to women outside of the US. Here is what I found very interesting. I did this as an experiment, and I'm going to share what I found in general.

In the US, this is what you will commonly find:

1- The woman will expect the following:
- That you are at least 6' tall. If not, then too bad they don't want to date you.
- You must be attractive. Own your own home, and have a nice car.
- Have a successful career, and be making at least a 6 figure income. Better be a white-collar job too.
- Expect to travel the world and go on plenty of vacations.
- Make sure that you are willing to take care of all of their needs/wants.

Additionally, if we are talking about church members add the following:
- Must be a worthy temple recommend holder.
- Attend church each week.
- Be a Return Missionary (very Important)
- Hold the Priesthood, and ideally a calling at Church.

Now comes the fun part. What they have to bring to the table:

- Well their natural Beauty of course.
- Maybe they graduated from High School, but not always.
- They might know how to use the microwave (If you're lucky).
- Cleaning (seems to not even be mentioned), we'll just call it a crapshoot.
- More than likely they don't have a job. If they do have a job, it can take precedence.

How about women overseas, how do they compare. What do they expect? Here's the standard list.

Expectations of Foreign Women:

- That you don't cheat on them.
- That you are willing to communicate with them.
- That you are Christian and a God-fearing man.
- That you have the means to support them, to provide stability.

What they offer in return:

- More than likely have a College Degree and have a job.
- First priority is to their family, a job comes a distant second. Family comes first.
- Takes pride in knowing how to cook and clean.
- Makes sure to put her husband's needs first. However, expects the husband to reciprocate (Naturally, as he ought to)
- Some will expect you to financially assist the extended family.

I found that experiment to be very eye-opening at the very least. At the end of the day, we are all different though. A good woman can be found anywhere, as well as a man for that matter.

Bear in mind, that most of the above are talking in generalities and not specifics. In my personal experience, I have found that each person is unique. I do find it interesting how much one's culture can have such an immense impact though.

There is a reason that many young men are marrying outside of the US though, and that is because our Culture is failing miserably in instilling proper values in our youth.

I don't know why Americans are glorifying foreign women, this problem is throughout the developed world. With the current ongoing situation, I've given up more or less, I'll probably be in a cell or on the street soon, and it's aging me.

Some women look good, but are not good.
Some women are good company, but look bad.
Some women look great, but are just dull, or (let's be fair here!) they find me dull.
Some women look great and are good company, bit they fall down in some other area e.g. promiscuity, drinking, ill thought out politics etc.

A lot of the good women tend to be spoken for. It's annoying to be attracted to a woman who's already married or whatever.

I've met a lot of women I've liked in one way or another, but there can often be some major letdown. One turned out to be more interested in women and was not what thought. Another was good company but slept around. Another was a good soul, but was very confusing when dating.

I agree with the comment above. Divorce is a massive deterrent to marriage for men. I completely understand why many men don't want to fall into that trap.

Feminism has done a lot of damage. One major thing i notice is that some women feel you have to listen to them but not vice versa, and if you complain, you're "mansplaining". There were issues before, but now it is an ideological battleground.

Recent issues have given us quite a few filters to take into consideration while trying to find a partner

- no mask
- unvaxxed
- takes responsibility for their health
- doesn’t trust government
- loves Jesus more than ever
- trusts God above men

Lucky me, I’m 20 still got plenty of time, I’m not worrying about the dating world atm. Keep your eyes open and you’ll find the right person when the Lord needs you to. That’s how I’ve felt promoted to approach this.

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑January 7th, 2022, 6:57 am Keep your eyes open and you’ll find the right person when the Lord needs you to. That’s how I’ve felt promoted to approach this.

Same (even though I'm old and been there and done that before already. That's still the proper mentality to have imo, unless the spirit guides otherwise)