Non-observance of Christmas

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Robin Hood
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by Robin Hood »

Being There wrote: November 28th, 2022, 8:23 pm
Robin Hood wrote: November 28th, 2022, 12:53 am
Being There wrote: November 27th, 2022, 6:06 pm
Robin Hood wrote: November 27th, 2022, 5:08 pm

Scriptural waffle.

I never said "they" were talking about a Christmas tree. I said the scripture was referring to the historical practice of decorating a tree, which it clearly is. I mean, it is. That is clearly what it says. The words are the clue. You know, the ones where it says about cutting a tree and fastening so it doesn't move and decorating it.
This, according to Jeremiah, is a vain practice.
So my point is quite straightforward. If it was vain in Jeremiah's day, could such a practice be vain today?
If not, how so?

You want to link it to the general heading of idolatry. That's fine, no problem with that. Where we differ is that you don't appear to believe reverencing a decorated tree is a form of modern idolatry, whereas I do.
But then I believe the Christus statue, among other things in the modern church, is an idol and you probably don't.
Gentiles love their idols.
why am I not surprised -
that you are still trying to defend yourself when you're obviously wrong.
But I'm through wasting my time on what is the truth - when people like you aren't looking for it -
and can't accept when they are wrong.
So I know you will reply to this - and I'll leave you with your trying to justify why you're right when you're obviously wrong.


The words are the clue huh.
"You know, the ones where it says about cutting a tree and fastening so it doesn't move and decorating it."
It doesn't say that.
I think you overlooked this part (in bold)
It says -
"3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest,
the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

or this is a more accurate translation.

3 For the practices of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.

4
They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
5
Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good.”


Jeremiah - 3-5, is talking about making idols - OUT OF A TREE ! -
"and fastening so it doesn't move and decorating it.",
and is NOT about the practice of decorating a damn tree. lol.


here is another persons explanation of Jeremiah 10

"Those nations, of course, did not worship the true God of Israel.
And so, I think that’s the reason why now in Jeremiah 10:1-16 the Lord warns his people
to not adopt the idolatry of the surrounding nations.


The sad fact was that they had already done just this – Judah was overrun with idolatry.

So, in these verses the Lord compares and contrasts himself – the true God – with the false gods
of the pagan nations around Judah.


Jeremiah 10 Commentary
Idols of Nations vs. YAHWEH of Israel

10:1 ¶ Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2 Thus saith the LORD,

Learn not the way of the [heathen/nations/goyim],

and be not [dismayed/terrified/awed] at the signs [of heaven/that occur in the sky];

[for/although] the heathen are [dismayed/awed] at them.

Jeremiah 10 Commentary
Heavenly Events

So, here is where God begins his comparing himself to the idols of the nations.
And as we’ll see, the comparison is not objective. It’s not as if he’s leading us in comparing two vehicles which we could purchase and one has certain strengths and weaknesses and the other is similar.
No, the idols hold nothing for the people who worship them. The Lord alone is the true God.

And because the Lord is alone the living and true God, he said what we just read. Israel would not progress beyond him, as if that were possible. Here the Lord is having to tell his rebellious people that the religion of the nations wouldn’t do a thing for them.

The particular religious practice of the surrounding pagan nations that the Lord singled out in Jeremiah 10:1-2 is the attention that they would pay to signs in the heavens. Whether that be comets and eclipses and meteors – things that were more unusual and conspicuous. Or whether that be the changes of the positions of the sun and moon and stars. The pagans would put great significance on these events and even worship those heavenly bodies.

The Lord here tells Israel that this is not a practice which they should be observing. “Don’t be awed by the things going on in the sky in the way that the pagans are. Don’t follow their idolatrous practices in any way – but certainly not in their worshiping heavenly bodies and giving them the same fear that is due to the Lord alone.”
Jeremiah 10 Commentary
Against Idols

But beyond the pagan religious observation of heavenly events,
the Lord warns his people to not pay attention to their hand-crafted idols either in Jeremiah 10:3-5.

3 For the [customs/religion] of the people [i.e., the nations] are [vain/delusion/worthless]:

for one cutteth a tree out of the forest,

the work of the hands of [the workman/a craftsman], with the axe.

4 They [deck/decorate] it with silver and with gold;

they fasten it with nails and with hammers,

[that/so that] it [move/totter/fall over] not.

5 They [i.e., the idols] are upright as the palm tree, but speak not:

they must needs be [borne/carried], because they cannot [go/walk].

Be not afraid of them;

for they cannot do [evil/harm],

neither also is it in them to [do good/help].


What a ridiculous picture of these supposedly-powerful idols. God brings it down to such an earthly mundane level.

He walks the people through how these worthless idols are made.
The guy goes into a forest and cuts down a tree. It’s a tree, man! This is no god!
The guy takes an axe to it. His lowly, earthly, man-made axe. This is how he makes his god, his idol.
The guy has to decorate his silly idol with gold and silver.
The idol can’t do that himself of course, because he really is just a lump of wood.
Then the guy who cut down the lump of wood with his man-made axe needs to hammer nails into the thing
so that it doesn’t tip over.
How powerful can this block of wood be if he needs human help to not tip over??

The idol can’t speak – so if it really is a God how do you know what it’s thinking or desiring from you as its worshiper?

It can’t move around on its own. It actually needs its worshipers to carry it.

So are you really going to fear something like this?
A piece of wood chopped down by a man who then carves it and puts metal on it
and has to make sure it doesn’t fall over?
It can’t talk and it can’t walk. Are you really going to fear this thing, Israel? You shouldn’t!

The thing can’t do any good or any evil. It can’t harm and it can’t help. Don’t fear it.

And don’t learn these ways of the nations that are so worthless!


Jeremiah 10 Commentary
Idols Again

And in fact, the wise-men of the nations – that we’ve just been talking about – are wise in name only. Jeremiah makes and then justifies that assertion in Jeremiah 10:8-9.

8 But they are altogether [brutish/stupid] and foolish:

the [stock/wood] is a doctrine of vanities [the instruction of vanities is wood – instruction from a wooden idol is worthless!].

9 [Silver spread into plates/beaten silver/hammered-out silver] is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz [i.e., to cover the idols],

the work of [the workman/a craftsman/carpenters], and of the hands of [the founder/a goldsmith]:

[blue/violet] and purple is their clothing:

they are all the work of [cunning/skilled] men.

So, what wisdom can professing wise men have when they worship dumb idols?
Jeremiah 10 Commentary
YAHWEH Again

Now, contrast the folly and worthlessness of those idols to the only-true, all-powerful, ever-living, and – most sobering of all – really angry Lord of Israel in Jeremiah 10:10.

10 But the LORD is the [ie, only] true God,

he is the living God, and an everlasting king:

at his wrath the earth [shall tremble/quakes/shakes],

and the nations [shall not be able to abide/cannot endure] his [indignation/fury].

Jeremiah 10 Commentary
Idols Once More

And as a result of the wrath of this only-real Deity – the Lord of Israel – all the worthless fake idols that are competing with him for the hearts of his people will perish according to Jeremiah 10:11.

11 ¶ Thus shall ye [i.e., Israel] say unto them [i.e., the nations],

The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth,

even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. [Only verse in Jer in Aramaic; chiasm; poetic]

This statement then apparently was intended to be uttered by Israel to the pagan nations – “ye” would be Israel. This was God’s desire for his people Israel – that they utter these words to their heathen neighbors.

The false gods of the pagans will be destroyed from the very places they had no business in creating. But how sad that Israel never seemed to fulfill this intention of the Lord. From the very get-go they’re worshiping these very idols that can do nothing for them. They get the Law from God and a few hours later they’re engaged in idolatry. They enter the Promised Land and maybe just a few short years later they’re adopting these false gods of the surrounding pagan nations.

And now here in Jeremiah’s day, about 1000 years after the giving of the Law and the entering into Canaan, God is still expressing this desire for them to be to him a nation of priests – of mediators between him and the world. But Israel failed then and it’s still failing. And God is using the Church now in this capacity. How are we doing? He’ll use Israel again in the future. But for now, if we don’t do this, no one will.


Jeremiah 10 Commentary
Idols

And yet the pagan nations and the Israelites who were thinking and behaving no differently than them thought that worthless false gods like Baal were sending that rain. And because of that, God in Jeremiah 10:14-15 comes right out and calls people like this “stupid” – well, “brutish” in the KJV, which is basically the same thing.

14 Every man [i.e., who is an idolater] is [brutish/stupid] in his knowledge:

every [founder/goldsmith] is [confounded/put to shame/disgraced] by the graven image:

for his molten image is [falsehood/deceitful/a mere sham],

and there is no breath in them.

15 They are [vanity/worthless], and the work of [errors/mockery]:

in the time of their [visitation/punishment] they shall perish.

So, this is the parting word regarding idols in this section. They will perish and the ones involved in making them will be disgraced.
You can huff and puff all you like, but you're not being scripturally honest and I think you know it.
But that's fine. Go ahead and celebrate your pagan festivities to your hearts content. I care not one jot.
But why do you care what I do?
more like YOU can huff and puff all you like, but it's not going to change the truth about these scriptures
and you being wrong.

So go ahead and join the others that think they are spiritually above the rest of us -
for not celebrating Christmas
simply because they think they found some (false) scripture that they got from someone somewhere -
(that they misinterpret), that they think is talking about decorating a tree (when it's clearly NOT),
and that Christmas shouldn't be celebrated. lol.

Go ahead and be Scrooge - and sit alone on Christmas to your hearts content -
(instead of sharing the Christmas spirit of joy, and love with others)
but you'll be happy, because after all, you know you're doing the right thing lol.
"The Lord is grieved when Christians look down upon one another
for either celebrating or not celebrating Christmas in a particular way.
This is spiritual pride. "
And a Merry Christmas to you too.

Light Seeker
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by Light Seeker »


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harakim
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by harakim »

mtpop wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:47 am
harakim wrote: November 26th, 2022, 10:32 pm I like Christmas. Also, the Israelites were the only group commanded to celebrate the holy days. So you're not supposed to celebrate it if you're not an Israelite. You would get the same credit you would get for celebrating Divali and Ramadan. Actually, you would get less than Ramadan probably. If you want to do it to learn history or get context, go right ahead. Just know it's not a righteous act.
There is 12 tribes of Israel. The Jews are one of those tribes. If you are a decent of Abraham or adopted into the house of Abraham these holy days are for you!
Do you think descendents of Abraham other than the Israelites are included in the "law of Moses"?

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harakim
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by harakim »

markharr wrote: December 15th, 2021, 4:40 pm
Niemand wrote: December 15th, 2021, 4:08 pm
TheDuke wrote: December 15th, 2021, 4:05 pm Wow, I'm sorry. Christmas has always been the greatest time of the year for my family, and will always be. I do see commercialization, but it is everywhere, so. I've gone so far as to fight for Christmas. As my company and community tried to make it just a holiday.
You're lucky you don't live here. There is a playlist of maybe a dozen (or two dozen) 70s and 80s pop songs which get played ad nauseam here. Every shop, every radio station, and every cafe. It's barely changed in my lifetime. I'm sure Robin Hood will back me up on that.

I feel Christmas is for children. I'm not a child anymore, and my god daughter is seventeen or so now, so I don't really get anything for her.
Image
This needed to be said. Thank you.

mtpop
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by mtpop »

harakim wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:10 am
mtpop wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:47 am
harakim wrote: November 26th, 2022, 10:32 pm I like Christmas. Also, the Israelites were the only group commanded to celebrate the holy days. So you're not supposed to celebrate it if you're not an Israelite. You would get the same credit you would get for celebrating Divali and Ramadan. Actually, you would get less than Ramadan probably. If you want to do it to learn history or get context, go right ahead. Just know it's not a righteous act.
There is 12 tribes of Israel. The Jews are one of those tribes. If you are a decent of Abraham or adopted into the house of Abraham these holy days are for you!
Do you think descendents of Abraham other than the Israelites are included in the "law of Moses"?
God is no respecter of persons, his laws apply to all of his children.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by Silver Pie »

Light Seeker wrote: November 30th, 2022, 2:51 am Mistake or insightful ?

Disney …

https://twitter.com/johnrich/status/159 ... 7C6ax979EA
Twitter is blocked on my computer. Can you post a screenshot?

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JLHPROF
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by JLHPROF »

Silver Pie wrote: November 30th, 2022, 6:05 pm
Light Seeker wrote: November 30th, 2022, 2:51 am Mistake or insightful ?

Disney …

https://twitter.com/johnrich/status/159 ... 7C6ax979EA
Twitter is blocked on my computer. Can you post a screenshot?
It's from the new Santa Clauses show.
The elves holding up signs spell love you SATAN instead of SANTA. Everyone shudders and they rearrange into SANTA.
It's a joke for any rational person.

Light Seeker
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by Light Seeker »

Silver Pie wrote: November 30th, 2022, 6:05 pm
Light Seeker wrote: November 30th, 2022, 2:51 am Mistake or insightful ?

Disney …

https://twitter.com/johnrich/status/159 ... 7C6ax979EA
Twitter is blocked on my computer. Can you post a screenshot?


Not sure how to attach the photo . Can someone please attach it ?

It’s a bunch of dancing kids holding up signs that are individual letters in a Christmas setting and the message says

“ we love you satan “

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True
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by True »

I watched this with my girls. It is a spin off of The Santa Clause with Tim Allen. The context is he is leaving and another man is taking over Santa Clause job and they elves are giving him a send off. It is supposed to be a humorous moment where the elves misspell Santa and quickly correct their mistake when Santa points out their spelling error.
I took it as humor when watching it but maybe there was something more sinister behind it. It is Disney.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by Silver Pie »

Light Seeker wrote: November 30th, 2022, 9:15 pm

Not sure how to attach the photo . Can someone please attach it ?

It’s a bunch of dancing kids holding up signs that are individual letters in a Christmas setting and the message says

“ we love you satan “
I think I watched a trailer or ad with that in it if it's from the new Santa Clause movie as JLHPROF said.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by Silver Pie »

Maybe this? I just found it on YouTube.

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Niemand
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by Niemand »

JLHPROF wrote: November 30th, 2022, 7:35 pm
Silver Pie wrote: November 30th, 2022, 6:05 pm
Light Seeker wrote: November 30th, 2022, 2:51 am Mistake or insightful ?

Disney …

https://twitter.com/johnrich/status/159 ... 7C6ax979EA
Twitter is blocked on my computer. Can you post a screenshot?
It's from the new Santa Clauses show.
The elves holding up signs spell love you SATAN instead of SANTA. Everyone shudders and they rearrange into SANTA.
It's a joke for any rational person.
Hence the old joke about the dyslexic devil-worshipper who ended up selling his soul to Santa.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by blitzinstripes »

I believe that a distinction can be made in regards to HOW one observes Christmas. If you follow the modern Babylonian (commercialized) model, there is a little of value in it. But if you make an honest effort to worship Christ and spread his light and the good news of His gospel, there are many positives.

I really don't care if the current calendar observance was based on a pagan tradition, or not. If you have the proper Christmas spirit of worship, you are blessed and edified, no matter the calendar. This is a matter that each of us (and our families) needs to decide for ourselves. My family is making a focused effort to 'downsize' the commercial and non worshipful aspects of the holiday and focus on more meaningful things.

But we won't go as far as non observance. I've seen too many positives. Too many people softening their hearts, feeling charitable, too much of an increase in peace and love to be able to write it off completely, imo.

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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by blitzinstripes »

harakim wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:10 am
mtpop wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:47 am
harakim wrote: November 26th, 2022, 10:32 pm I like Christmas. Also, the Israelites were the only group commanded to celebrate the holy days. So you're not supposed to celebrate it if you're not an Israelite. You would get the same credit you would get for celebrating Divali and Ramadan. Actually, you would get less than Ramadan probably. If you want to do it to learn history or get context, go right ahead. Just know it's not a righteous act.
There is 12 tribes of Israel. The Jews are one of those tribes. If you are a decent of Abraham or adopted into the house of Abraham these holy days are for you!
Do you think descendents of Abraham other than the Israelites are included in the "law of Moses"?

The logical fallacy in that argument concerning the Jews is obvious. That law has all been fulfilled. Jesus brought his higher law of the gospel and the Jews rejected it, but it was given nonetheless. So, while there is no benefit at all in a Jew observing a fulfilled law, (They may not believe that, but it is true.
Judaism is a spiritually dead and empty religion which lacks the power of salvation. Every Jew alive or dead must eventually forsake Judaism's outdated laws and accept Jesus Christ as their savior in order to be saved.) there IS benefit in celebrating the birth of the Savior and using this special season to spread his light and love in the world.

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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by BeNotDeceived »

blitzinstripes wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 5:32 am
The logical fallacy in that argument concerning the Jews is obvious. That law has all been fulfilled. Jesus brought his higher law of the gospel and the Jews rejected it, but it was given nonetheless. So, while there is no benefit at all in a Jew observing a fulfilled law, (They may not believe that, but it is true.
Judaism is a spiritually dead and empty religion which lacks the power of salvation. Every Jew alive or dead must eventually forsake Judaism's outdated laws and accept Jesus Christ as their savior in order to be saved.) there IS benefit in celebrating the birth of the Savior and using this special season to spread his light and love in the world.
Weird the Jews rejecting what was put so plainly before them. :(

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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by Mamabear »

Pazooka wrote: December 15th, 2021, 11:03 am We gradually weened ourselves off of Christmas over about a three year span until finally, last year, we did not celebrate at all except to have an excuse for some exceptional meals with the family who was brave enough to get together despite Covid restrictions.

It has been wonderful!!! We still do the seasonal baking but that has nothing to do with Christmas and everything to do with the fact that baking in Winter just feels like the right thing to do.

When I explain to people why we don’t celebrate, all I say is that it never brought us any closer to Jesus…the buying presents and the tree, etc. Most people I talk to tend to agree with that. In fact, it’s become a major distraction and a vehicle for idolatry, IMO. Plus, 2020 really woke me up to the necessity of getting rid of any idolatry in my life that I could recognize.

We jump through so many hoops to try and connect Christmas to Jesus and after years and years of trying to make it fit, I finally couldn’t stomach the discrepancy.
I love this. Every year Christmas feels empty and hallow and it’s because of idolatry. Any tips on how to get my family on board?

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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by harakim »

mtpop wrote: November 30th, 2022, 3:56 pm
harakim wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:10 am
mtpop wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:47 am
harakim wrote: November 26th, 2022, 10:32 pm I like Christmas. Also, the Israelites were the only group commanded to celebrate the holy days. So you're not supposed to celebrate it if you're not an Israelite. You would get the same credit you would get for celebrating Divali and Ramadan. Actually, you would get less than Ramadan probably. If you want to do it to learn history or get context, go right ahead. Just know it's not a righteous act.
There is 12 tribes of Israel. The Jews are one of those tribes. If you are a decent of Abraham or adopted into the house of Abraham these holy days are for you!
Do you think descendents of Abraham other than the Israelites are included in the "law of Moses"?
God is no respecter of persons, his laws apply to all of his children.
Get building that ark then!

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harakim
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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by harakim »

blitzinstripes wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 5:32 am
harakim wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:10 am
mtpop wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:47 am
harakim wrote: November 26th, 2022, 10:32 pm I like Christmas. Also, the Israelites were the only group commanded to celebrate the holy days. So you're not supposed to celebrate it if you're not an Israelite. You would get the same credit you would get for celebrating Divali and Ramadan. Actually, you would get less than Ramadan probably. If you want to do it to learn history or get context, go right ahead. Just know it's not a righteous act.
There is 12 tribes of Israel. The Jews are one of those tribes. If you are a decent of Abraham or adopted into the house of Abraham these holy days are for you!
Do you think descendents of Abraham other than the Israelites are included in the "law of Moses"?

The logical fallacy in that argument concerning the Jews is obvious. That law has all been fulfilled. Jesus brought his higher law of the gospel and the Jews rejected it, but it was given nonetheless. So, while there is no benefit at all in a Jew observing a fulfilled law, (They may not believe that, but it is true.
Judaism is a spiritually dead and empty religion which lacks the power of salvation. Every Jew alive or dead must eventually forsake Judaism's outdated laws and accept Jesus Christ as their savior in order to be saved.) there IS benefit in celebrating the birth of the Savior and using this special season to spread his light and love in the world.
I don't disagree with this. The laws were given to specific groups, so it's clear no one outside those groups is going to benefit from them. I do think following the law has benefits for the group the law was given to, but it's true that the law was fulfilled. What that means, I'm not certain.

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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by mtmom »

blitzinstripes wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 5:32 am
harakim wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:10 am
mtpop wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:47 am
harakim wrote: November 26th, 2022, 10:32 pm I like Christmas. Also, the Israelites were the only group commanded to celebrate the holy days. So you're not supposed to celebrate it if you're not an Israelite. You would get the same credit you would get for celebrating Divali and Ramadan. Actually, you would get less than Ramadan probably. If you want to do it to learn history or get context, go right ahead. Just know it's not a righteous act.
There is 12 tribes of Israel. The Jews are one of those tribes. If you are a decent of Abraham or adopted into the house of Abraham these holy days are for you!
Do you think descendents of Abraham other than the Israelites are included in the "law of Moses"?

The logical fallacy in that argument concerning the Jews is obvious. That law has all been fulfilled. Jesus brought his higher law of the gospel and the Jews rejected it, but it was given nonetheless. So, while there is no benefit at all in a Jew observing a fulfilled law, (They may not believe that, but it is true.
Judaism is a spiritually dead and empty religion which lacks the power of salvation. Every Jew alive or dead must eventually forsake Judaism's outdated laws and accept Jesus Christ as their savior in order to be saved.) there IS benefit in celebrating the birth of the Savior and using this special season to spread his light and love in the world.
Better be careful which "laws" you would like the Jews or Hebrews to get rid of. Some of these "outdated" laws are considered a perpetual covenant, according to some of the books in the Old Testament. Actually, many of the Messianic Jews are following God's laws the way they were meant to be observed.

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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by Pazooka »

Mamabear wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 6:09 am
Pazooka wrote: December 15th, 2021, 11:03 am We gradually weened ourselves off of Christmas over about a three year span until finally, last year, we did not celebrate at all except to have an excuse for some exceptional meals with the family who was brave enough to get together despite Covid restrictions.

It has been wonderful!!! We still do the seasonal baking but that has nothing to do with Christmas and everything to do with the fact that baking in Winter just feels like the right thing to do.

When I explain to people why we don’t celebrate, all I say is that it never brought us any closer to Jesus…the buying presents and the tree, etc. Most people I talk to tend to agree with that. In fact, it’s become a major distraction and a vehicle for idolatry, IMO. Plus, 2020 really woke me up to the necessity of getting rid of any idolatry in my life that I could recognize.

We jump through so many hoops to try and connect Christmas to Jesus and after years and years of trying to make it fit, I finally couldn’t stomach the discrepancy.
I love this. Every year Christmas feels empty and hallow and it’s because of idolatry. Any tips on how to get my family on board?
Maybe gradual is best. And raise awareness along the way. For example, we just rewatched the Harry Potter series (we’re total heathens) and noticed that they are able to have all the trappings of Christmas, in the story with absolutely zero acknowledgment of Christ. That’s got to say something.

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Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by blitzinstripes »

mtmom wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 10:20 am
blitzinstripes wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 5:32 am
harakim wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:10 am
mtpop wrote: November 27th, 2022, 8:47 am

There is 12 tribes of Israel. The Jews are one of those tribes. If you are a decent of Abraham or adopted into the house of Abraham these holy days are for you!
Do you think descendents of Abraham other than the Israelites are included in the "law of Moses"?

The logical fallacy in that argument concerning the Jews is obvious. That law has all been fulfilled. Jesus brought his higher law of the gospel and the Jews rejected it, but it was given nonetheless. So, while there is no benefit at all in a Jew observing a fulfilled law, (They may not believe that, but it is true.
Judaism is a spiritually dead and empty religion which lacks the power of salvation. Every Jew alive or dead must eventually forsake Judaism's outdated laws and accept Jesus Christ as their savior in order to be saved.) there IS benefit in celebrating the birth of the Savior and using this special season to spread his light and love in the world.
Better be careful which "laws" you would like the Jews or Hebrews to get rid of. Some of these "outdated" laws are considered a perpetual covenant, according to some of the books in the Old Testament. Actually, many of the Messianic Jews are following God's laws the way they were meant to be observed.
Meant to be observed 2000 years ago. But not since A.D. 34. Every letter of the law of Moses was fulfilled in Christ. The new law was given, they chose to reject it. Again ... salvation will only come as they accept Christ's atonement.

Today's Jews gain nothing by abiding by a dead law.

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Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13111
Location: England

Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by Robin Hood »

Niemand wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 4:59 am
JLHPROF wrote: November 30th, 2022, 7:35 pm
Silver Pie wrote: November 30th, 2022, 6:05 pm
Light Seeker wrote: November 30th, 2022, 2:51 am Mistake or insightful ?

Disney …

https://twitter.com/johnrich/status/159 ... 7C6ax979EA
Twitter is blocked on my computer. Can you post a screenshot?
It's from the new Santa Clauses show.
The elves holding up signs spell love you SATAN instead of SANTA. Everyone shudders and they rearrange into SANTA.
It's a joke for any rational person.
Hence the old joke about the dyslexic devil-worshipper who ended up selling his soul to Santa.
Reminds me of the dyslexic, agnostic insomniac, who would lay awake at night wondering if there was a dog.

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TheChristian
captain of 100
Posts: 708

Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by TheChristian »

blitzinstripes wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:22 pm
mtmom wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 10:20 am
blitzinstripes wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 5:32 am
harakim wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:10 am

Do you think descendents of Abraham other than the Israelites are included in the "law of Moses"?

The logical fallacy in that argument concerning the Jews is obvious. That law has all been fulfilled. Jesus brought his higher law of the gospel and the Jews rejected it, but it was given nonetheless. So, while there is no benefit at all in a Jew observing a fulfilled law, (They may not believe that, but it is true.
Judaism is a spiritually dead and empty religion which lacks the power of salvation. Every Jew alive or dead must eventually forsake Judaism's outdated laws and accept Jesus Christ as their savior in order to be saved.) there IS benefit in celebrating the birth of the Savior and using this special season to spread his light and love in the world.
Better be careful which "laws" you would like the Jews or Hebrews to get rid of. Some of these "outdated" laws are considered a perpetual covenant, according to some of the books in the Old Testament. Actually, many of the Messianic Jews are following God's laws the way they were meant to be observed.
Meant to be observed 2000 years ago. But not since A.D. 34. Every letter of the law of Moses was fulfilled in Christ. The new law was given, they chose to reject it. Again ... salvation will only come as they accept Christ's atonement.

Today's Jews gain nothing by abiding by a dead law.

They have not gained their salvation by it thats true, but they preserved their identity by seeking to keep said Law of Moses and by such means it kept their hearts and eyes apon their beloved Jerusalem for nigh on 2000 years and by said means it has aided them in being gathered back to the land of their forefathers and declaring the state of Israel.
After all the Law of Moses was given to prepare them for their promised Messiah, whom they rejected first time round, now they are gathered in again back to Jerusalem the law of Moses has given them another opportunity to prepare for the return of the Messiah.........
This time it will be to their salvation and all Israel will be saved!

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harakim
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2819
Location: Salt Lake Megalopolis

Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by harakim »

blitzinstripes wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 7:22 pm
mtmom wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 10:20 am
blitzinstripes wrote: December 3rd, 2022, 5:32 am
harakim wrote: November 30th, 2022, 11:10 am

Do you think descendents of Abraham other than the Israelites are included in the "law of Moses"?

The logical fallacy in that argument concerning the Jews is obvious. That law has all been fulfilled. Jesus brought his higher law of the gospel and the Jews rejected it, but it was given nonetheless. So, while there is no benefit at all in a Jew observing a fulfilled law, (They may not believe that, but it is true.
Judaism is a spiritually dead and empty religion which lacks the power of salvation. Every Jew alive or dead must eventually forsake Judaism's outdated laws and accept Jesus Christ as their savior in order to be saved.) there IS benefit in celebrating the birth of the Savior and using this special season to spread his light and love in the world.
Better be careful which "laws" you would like the Jews or Hebrews to get rid of. Some of these "outdated" laws are considered a perpetual covenant, according to some of the books in the Old Testament. Actually, many of the Messianic Jews are following God's laws the way they were meant to be observed.
Meant to be observed 2000 years ago. But not since A.D. 34. Every letter of the law of Moses was fulfilled in Christ. The new law was given, they chose to reject it. Again ... salvation will only come as they accept Christ's atonement.

Today's Jews gain nothing by abiding by a dead law.
Some of them are explicitly given as a covenant to this people forever.

And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.

It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

etcetera

Pathway2DaCross
captain of 50
Posts: 53

Re: Non-observance of Christmas

Post by Pathway2DaCross »

This will help those who are at the crossroads of Christmas. http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data ... 1668632399

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