Options in Pre-Existence Heaven..??

[JK4Woods]

Just wondering about the options presented in our collective Pre-Existence.

I know from Primary lessons on up, Satan is Bad, Christ is Good, and plan number 2 won the day.

Went to the Temple over the long weekend. Started thinking about options.

And how an option was presented in the Pre-existence, though not adopted, still had the potential to change the whole plan.

So that means heaven is not fixed in certainty.
Things can change. Diametrically different directions can be considered.

Is heaven a democracy?

Do rank & file spirits get a vote? Is leadership elite? Does leadership run the joint, and the sheep behave as ordered?

Just saying... heaven doesn’t seem fixed.
Brother Lucifer, before he fell from grace, was aware of the options given to initial inhabitants of new earthly type globes.

So he, (Lucifer) has first hand experience seeing the percentages of successful celestial kingdom adherents and recognized the larger margin of “failure to perfect” citizens not achieve the next step up in their development.

Since a “third part” (whatever that means) seemed to think the alternate plan offered was viable. How easily swayed are pre-existence spirits?

Or did HF have a bunch of spirit children who had a propensity for going contrary to loving direction?

We all know families who have had kids reject familial love, and kind family culture to turn a corner away to show their independence.

Sometimes I feel like I am in Oz, and all we hear is the booming voice....

Not that I’m looking to draw back the curtain, but there is way more to the story of pre-existent heaven, than primary level teaching....

[Peeps]

I believe we (members of the Joseph-ite LDS churches) were told only a partial truth, and part outright lies about the preexistence. The kind of lies that turn everything upside down and backwards. Like Genesis chapter 1 was talking about our spiritual creation, and the taking on a flesh body was a good idea. Certain races being the "fence sitters" in the war in heaven. Turns out that everyone stuck in mortal flesh bodies (us) were the fence sitters, that's why we are here, for following, or more likely led captive by, satan and the rebel third to a lower, physical realm. So this life is a test, that is why we must be spiritually reborn and adopted back into the kingdom.

Anyway, this is some of my posts on the thread about "Super Identities" that have to do with what I believe was our ultimate mistake in the preexistence...

Again, please just watch this video starting at 22:32.
Joseph Smith was certainly on board with the elohim in chapter 1 of Genesis, because this is the same ones/group in the book of Abraham chapter 4.

Did you watch the whole video (after 22:32)? At the 1 hour mark, he explains how the spirit children of the LORD God were turned into semen, presumably by the elohim. He goes into detail at 1:16. This is the medium used to cross over, from being spiritual to physical beings.

The waters from Genesis chapter 1:2 means semen.

Gen 1:2 - And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God (ĕlōhîm) moved upon the face of the waters.

Strong’s Definitions, H4325
מַיִם mayim, mah'-yim; dual of a primitive noun (but used in a singular sense); water; figuratively, juice; by euphemism, urine, semen:— piss, wasting, water(-ing, (-course, -flood, -spring)).

And he goes on to show how the Vatican is a snake, and the Bernini altar illustrates Genesis 1.

Edit: @ 43 minutes, he shows how the genders are really a construct of the devil.

Edit (again, since I am rewatching it) @ 57 minutes he talks about the "E Pluribus Unum" (he doesn't call it that, in those words) getting broken up.


Edit: I found a web site that explains It and has pictures.

https://thelightinthedarkplace.wordpres ... r-video-2/

PS: Joseph Smith was a Mason, and masons, and other secret societies, have access to many more "scriptures" than Christians typically have. These "sacred" texts usually are about Cain, especially Tubal Cain. And there was another Enoch, that was the son of Cain, not the Enoch who was the grandfather of Noah. Cain built a city and named it after his son, Enoch, according to the book of Jubilees, so perhaps it is this City of Enoch that is in LDS scripture.

Book of Jubilees chapter IV

9. And Cain took ’Âwân his sister to be his wife and she bare him Enoch at
the close of the fourth jubilee. And in the first year of the first week of the fifth jubilee, houses were built on the earth, and Cain built a city, and called its name after the name of his son Enoch.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/jub/jub16.htm

So there's that...

[inho]

But was there really two plans in pre-existence? Maybe it is a question of semantics. This thread is relevant: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42312
This is what I wrote there:

I don't think it is wrong to talk about two plans. However, the question really was "Whom shall I send?"

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

Abr. 3:27-28

God didn't ask if everyone else had any better ideas than the plan he had presented. Satan answered to the "whom shall I send" but added his own terms:

1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Moses 4:1-4

According to the scriptures, there was no voting between two plans. It was the Lord God who made the decision: "I will send the first." Because of this choice Satan rebelled. Those who sided with him were in open rebellion against God. We "chose between two plans" by taking side in the war in heaven: either by obeying our Father or by following rebellious Satan.

[inho]

Since a “third part” (whatever that means) seemed to think the alternate plan offered was viable. How easily swayed are pre-existence spirits?

One theory is that the third part consisted mostly of people who would have had the highest risk to become sons of perdition. That means that they are not people who would likely end up in terrestrial or telestial kingdom, since becoming a son of perdition requires that you first have a full knowledge. This theory is based on George Laub's Nauvoo journal, where he made notes of a sermon preached by Joseph:

in the begining the great Eloheam, in the Hebrew meaning the God of all gods, called a grand council & and they councild together ... and they spake concerning the Redemption of this world and formed Limited Sircumstances concerning the redemption, Jesus Christ being the greater light or of more Inteligence for he loved rituousness and hated in(i)quity. He being the elder Brother Presented himself for to come and redeem this world as it was his right by inheritance. He stated he could save all those who did not sin against the Holy Ghost & they would obey the code of laws that was given. But their sircumstances ware that all who would sin against the Holy Ghost Should have noe forgiveness neither in this world nor in the world to come. For they had strove aganst light and knowledg after they had tasted of the good things of the world to come. They should not have any parden in the world to come because they had a knowledge of the world to come and ware not willing to abide the law. Therefore they can have noe fo[r]giveness there but must be most miserable of all and never can be renewed again. Refered to 6 Chapter of Hebrews. But Saten or Lucifer being the next heir and had alotet to him great power and authority, even prince of the Eir. He spake emediatly and boasted of himself Saying Send me I can save all Even those who Sined against the Holy Ghost

[Peeps]

Since a “third part” (whatever that means) seemed to think the alternate plan offered was viable. How easily swayed are pre-existence spirits?

One theory is that the third part consisted mostly of people who would have had the highest risk to become sons of perdition. That means that they are not people who would likely end up in terrestrial or telestial kingdom, since becoming a son of perdition requires that you first have a full knowledge. This theory is based on George Laub's Nauvoo journal, where he made notes of a sermon preached by Joseph:

in the begining the great Eloheam, in the Hebrew meaning the God of all gods, called a grand council & and they councild together ... and they spake concerning the Redemption of this world and formed Limited Sircumstances concerning the redemption, Jesus Christ being the greater light or of more Inteligence for he loved rituousness and hated in(i)quity. He being the elder Brother Presented himself for to come and redeem this world as it was his right by inheritance. He stated he could save all those who did not sin against the Holy Ghost & they would obey the code of laws that was given. But their sircumstances ware that all who would sin against the Holy Ghost Should have noe forgiveness neither in this world nor in the world to come. For they had strove aganst light and knowledg after they had tasted of the good things of the world to come. They should not have any parden in the world to come because they had a knowledge of the world to come and ware not willing to abide the law. Therefore they can have noe fo[r]giveness there but must be most miserable of all and never can be renewed again. Refered to 6 Chapter of Hebrews. But Saten or Lucifer being the next heir and had alotet to him great power and authority, even prince of the Eir. He spake emediatly and boasted of himself Saying Send me I can save all Even those who Sined against the Holy Ghost

.
Well, what a surprise you would show up, go get gkearney, and Durzan too, and then y'all can "enlighten" us with the "true" (not) light bearer, Lucifer's, version of the preexistence.

Edit: I forgot that sacred knowledge is not for the "vulgar and profane" masses, but it is reserved for initiates. Maybe that is the real reason Bro. Joseph was murdered.

[Peeps]

Another thought came to me from the thread on super identities...

Satan has already seeded the flesh itself with himself. That must be one of his gifts he has perverted (like music) and grossly misusing. He was the cherub that "covereth."

Ezekiel 28:14
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Covereth:
saw-kak'; or שָׂכַךְ sâkak; a primitive root; properly, to entwine as a screen; by implication, to fence in, cover over, (figuratively) protect:—cover, defence, defend, hedge in, join together, set, shut up.

The same term is used for breeding livestock, for example, a stallion "covers" mares. I believe he has already seeded himself in the flesh, and that is why it is so corrupt, lustful, insatiable, etc., and at constant war with our spirits. The stones of fire he was walking in the midst of were probably all of us in the preexistence. Like the Tree of Knowledge being placed in the midst of the Garden. You made the point about us being stones, that is scripturally sound, and it fits here too.

Ezekiel 28:14
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Stones:
אֶבֶן ʼeben, eh'-ben; from the root of H1129 through the meaning to build; a stone:— carbuncle, mason, plummet, (chalk-, hail-, head-, sling-) stone(-ny), (divers) weight(-s).


Fire:
אֵשׁ ʼêsh, aysh; a primitive word; fire (literally or figuratively):—burning, fiery, fire, flaming, hot.

And Psalms 104 says:

Psalm 104
1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

2 Who coverest thyself with light as witha garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

4 Who maketh His angels spirits; His ministers a flaming fire:

5Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

(Contrast this to the Book of Abraham elohim/gods in chapter 4 verse 10, which says they"saw that they were obeyed" by the great waters)

8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them

So Lucifer must have...This is why Lucifer is called the light bearer. He stole/led away these stones of fire to put them in flesh bodies, which he had already seeded with himself.

Forgive me JK4Woods, I am still trying to figure out things myself.

But Jesus Christ has a message to all the Free Masons, etc..

Have you not read this Scripture: “‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?”
Mark 12:10-11

[Peeps]

But was there really two plans in pre-existence? Maybe it is a question of semantics. This thread is relevant: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=42312
This is what I wrote there:

I don't think it is wrong to talk about two plans. However, the question really was "Whom shall I send?"

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

Abr. 3:27-28

God didn't ask if everyone else had any better ideas than the plan he had presented. Satan answered to the "whom shall I send" but added his own terms:

1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Moses 4:1-4

According to the scriptures, there was no voting between two plans. It was the Lord God who made the decision: "I will send the first." Because of this choice Satan rebelled. Those who sided with him were in open rebellion against God. We "chose between two plans" by taking side in the war in heaven: either by obeying our Father or by following rebellious Satan.

This is an illusion of false choice. We did not have to choose between the 2 plans. We could have chosen not to participate and stayed home. Jesus Christ came to rescue us. He was not Lucifer's brother, but God Himself taking on a flesh body to pay for our sins. The flesh belongs to satan, and we could not obey the laws of carnal commandments. Sins done in the flesh must be paid for in blood, those are satan's rules. Or he gets our soul. We apparently took his wager in the preexistence. And so our Father, God, made His WORD flesh, Jesus Christ, to dwell among us. This is how He is both the Father and the Son and our Brother. He was on a rescue mission. And He paid our debt with His own blood.

[abijah`]

Another thought came to me from the thread on super identities...

Satan has already seeded the flesh itself with himself. That must be one of his gifts he has perverted (like music) and grossly misusing. He was the cherub that "covereth."

Ezekiel 28:14
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Covereth:
saw-kak'; or שָׂכַךְ sâkak; a primitive root; properly, to entwine as a screen; by implication, to fence in, cover over, (figuratively) protect:—cover, defence, defend, hedge in, join together, set, shut up.

The same term is used for breeding livestock, for example, a stallion "covers" mares. I believe he has already seeded himself in the flesh, and that is why it is so corrupt, lustful, insatiable, etc., and at constant war with our spirits. The stones of fire he was walking in the midst of were probably all of us in the preexistence. Like the Tree of Knowledge being placed in the midst of the Garden. You made the point about us being stones, that is scripturally sound, and it fits here too.

Ezekiel 28:14
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Stones:
אֶבֶן ʼeben, eh'-ben; from the root of H1129 through the meaning to build; a stone:— carbuncle, mason, plummet, (chalk-, hail-, head-, sling-) stone(-ny), (divers) weight(-s).


Fire:
אֵשׁ ʼêsh, aysh; a primitive word; fire (literally or figuratively):—burning, fiery, fire, flaming, hot.

And Psalms 104 says:

Psalm 104
1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

2 Who coverest thyself with light as witha garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

4 Who maketh His angels spirits; His ministers a flaming fire:

5Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

(Contrast this to the Book of Abraham elohim/gods in chapter 4 verse 10, which says they"saw that they were obeyed" by the great waters)

8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them

So Lucifer must have...This is why Lucifer is called the light bearer. He stole/led away these stones of fire to put them in flesh bodies, which he had already seeded with himself.

Forgive me JK4Woods, I am still trying to figure out things myself.

But Jesus Christ has a message to all the Free Masons, etc..

Have you not read this Scripture: “‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?”
Mark 12:10-11

I made this post before on the "stones of fire", specifically on what Michael heiser has to say on the subject:

naked`Bible

[
and then in isaiah, we see the same kind of thing. like already asserted in the thread, there is a clear connection between stars and the members of the divine`council/angels/rulers/"sons of God" atop the mount of assembly, and isaiah portrait of the heylel`rebel as seeking to be exalted above the stars. he wanted to be like God in he sense that he wanted to be over and above them, and assumedly, hold dominion over them ("he sought to destroy the agency of man..."). the final result is he gets cut down and cast out below them, to be gawked at by human kings

moreover heiser compares the phrase "stones of fire" to a couple passages from the book of enoch. serious psalm 82 themes coming through in the second one, regarding judgement for angels/stars who are judged by God and cast down

1 enoch 17
They lifted me up into one place where there were the ones like flaming fire and when they so desire they appear like men.

1 enoch 18
I saw the path of the angels and the ultimate end of the earth and the firmament of the heaven above. And I kept moving in the direction of the West and it was flaming day and night toward the seven mountains of precious stones, three toward the east and three towards the south.
And I saw what was inside those mountains, a place beyond the great earth where the heavens come together. And I saw deep pit with heavenly fire on its pillars. I saw inside them descending pillars of fire that were immeasurable in respect to both altitude and depth. And on top of that pit I saw place without the heavily firmament above it or earthly foundations under it or water. There was nothing on it, not even birds. It was a desolate and terrible place. And I saw there the seven stars which were like great burning mountains [which were just described as flaming "stones"...]. Then the angel said to me, this place is the ultimate end of heaven and and earth. It is the prison house for the stars and the powers of heaven.

You get references to mountains; mountains are made of stone, mountains that were burning. They are described as this sort of flaming language. Flaming is the word that is used there in verse 6 of 1 Enoch 18. So the mountains are described as flaming. They’re described as precious stones, which in Ezekiel 28 are the shining luminous stone, so this shininess, this light, a brilliant appearance kind of thing. But then when you get down to verse 13, we get the star language. I saw the 7 stars there. And you think the stars, isn’t that like the language that’s used of divine beings, the sons of God in Job 38? It is but look at what Enoch does with it. I saw there the seven stars which were like great burning mountains.
Well now wait a minute. Well if the stars here, what’s going on here, stars, mountains, flaming fire mountains, and all this kind of stuff, what's going on? And then he actually turns it around the very next verse and says that this place is the prison house for the stars, the powers of heaven, a very clear reference to divine beings. So what Enoch does here is he actually emerges both options that these flaming stones, flaming mountains, flaming stars, brilliant luminous stars, that it's both the place and its also entities.

kinda interesting how this "prison house" description of seven burning stars and seven burning mountains could serve as a potential mirror reflection of God, with his own seven fiery holy ones who are "eyes" and associated with the menorah and yhwh's "presence",
or his "shekinah"

so my point: the divine council and these spiritual beings played a crucial role in the drama of lucifer's downfall, and the word links seem to support it. full transcript of the segment = https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/wp-conten ... f-Fire.pdf

i'm yet more convinced of the scriptural association between the sun, moon, stars and wandering stars (planets) with heavenly stewardships and divine beings/councilmembers -

psalm 148
Hallelujah! Praise the LORD from the heavens; praise him in the heights! [the cosmic mountaintop where the gods live and hold their assemblies]
Praise him, all his angels; praise him, all his hosts!
Praise him, sun and moon, praise him, all you shining stars!

TL;DR he basically makes connections that seem to associate the "stones of fire" with angelic beings, which goes right hand-in-hand with your associating it with how "He makes his servants as flaming fires", which I think is quite intuitive, and true.

Lots of times God's eapecial servants are likened to "stones" such as in 2 Peter, or in Psalms referring to Christ as the "chief cornerstone". Smaller pieces, of a larger supra`Identity.

Same principle seen in wicked examples of supra-identities:

• Matt 24
  Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. [Singular]But he answered them, “You see all these [Plural], do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will be left here not one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”

• Gen 11
  Now the whole earth had one [Singular
  ] language and the same words.
  And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks [Plural], and burn them thoroughly.” And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar.

^I think the burnt bricks of babel correlate with the fiery`stones of Eden.

The baptism of fire is spoken of in the scriptures as saints being refined into precious metals/stones that get used to build the superidentity of the Christly Forever`Temple.

I think the bricks that are "burned thoroughly" are a rebellious resemblance of that.

[abijah`]

He was the cherub that "covereth."

Ezekiel 28:14
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Covereth:
saw-kak'; or שָׂכַךְ sâkak; a primitive root; properly, to entwine as a screen; by implication, to fence in, cover over, (figuratively) protect:—cover, defence, defend, hedge in, join together, set, shut up.

The same term is used for breeding livestock, for example, a stallion "covers" mares. I believe he has already seeded himself in the flesh, and that is why it is so corrupt, lustful, insatiable, etc., and at constant war with our spirits. The stones of fire he was walking in the midst of were probably all of us in the preexistence. Like the Tree of Knowledge being placed in the midst of the Garden. You made the point about us being stones, that is scripturally sound, and it fits here too.

Interesting ..

One key to understanding this "cherub that covereth" language IMO has to do with the Ark of the Covenant, whereupon we have twin cherubim who *cover* it.

Interesting how in the example of the Ark it's two cherubim that "cover", whereas in the case of pre-fallen lucifer, he is the lone, singular covering-cherub. Makes me wonder about my speculations in my "female spirits in the premortality" thread, and the whole baphomet-hermaphroditism idea, versus the man+woman = one flesh thing. I've long wondered if the twin cherubim have some correlation with Man + Helpmeet, like post-redemption Adam + Eve maybe.

"Covereth" - again in the context of the Ark is likewise the origin of Atonement theology. In Hebrew, the "mercy seat" is not what it's actually called, but rather it comes from the word meaning "to cover".

Which seems to suggest some kind of priestly intercessory role, which is probably why lucifer is spoken of in Ezekiel 28 in such priestly terms.
[/quote]

[Peeps]

Another thought came to me from the thread on super identities...

Satan has already seeded the flesh itself with himself. That must be one of his gifts he has perverted (like music) and grossly misusing. He was the cherub that "covereth."

Ezekiel 28:14
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Covereth:
saw-kak'; or שָׂכַךְ sâkak; a primitive root; properly, to entwine as a screen; by implication, to fence in, cover over, (figuratively) protect:—cover, defence, defend, hedge in, join together, set, shut up.

The same term is used for breeding livestock, for example, a stallion "covers" mares. I believe he has already seeded himself in the flesh, and that is why it is so corrupt, lustful, insatiable, etc., and at constant war with our spirits. The stones of fire he was walking in the midst of were probably all of us in the preexistence. Like the Tree of Knowledge being placed in the midst of the Garden. You made the point about us being stones, that is scripturally sound, and it fits here too.

Ezekiel 28:14
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Stones:
אֶבֶן ʼeben, eh'-ben; from the root of H1129 through the meaning to build; a stone:— carbuncle, mason, plummet, (chalk-, hail-, head-, sling-) stone(-ny), (divers) weight(-s).


Fire:
אֵשׁ ʼêsh, aysh; a primitive word; fire (literally or figuratively):—burning, fiery, fire, flaming, hot.

And Psalms 104 says:

Psalm 104
1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

2 Who coverest thyself with light as witha garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

4 Who maketh His angels spirits; His ministers a flaming fire:

5Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

(Contrast this to the Book of Abraham elohim/gods in chapter 4 verse 10, which says they"saw that they were obeyed" by the great waters)

8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them

So Lucifer must have...This is why Lucifer is called the light bearer. He stole/led away these stones of fire to put them in flesh bodies, which he had already seeded with himself.

Forgive me JK4Woods, I am still trying to figure out things myself.

But Jesus Christ has a message to all the Free Masons, etc..

Have you not read this Scripture: “‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?”
Mark 12:10-11

I made this post before on the "stones of fire", specifically on what Michael heiser has to say on the subject:

naked`Bible

[
and then in isaiah, we see the same kind of thing. like already asserted in the thread, there is a clear connection between stars and the members of the divine`council/angels/rulers/"sons of God" atop the mount of assembly, and isaiah portrait of the heylel`rebel as seeking to be exalted above the stars. he wanted to be like God in he sense that he wanted to be over and above them, and assumedly, hold dominion over them ("he sought to destroy the agency of man..."). the final result is he gets cut down and cast out below them, to be gawked at by human kings

moreover heiser compares the phrase "stones of fire" to a couple passages from the book of enoch. serious psalm 82 themes coming through in the second one, regarding judgement for angels/stars who are judged by God and cast down

1 enoch 17
They lifted me up into one place where there were the ones like flaming fire and when they so desire they appear like men.

1 enoch 18
I saw the path of the angels and the ultimate end of the earth and the firmament of the heaven above. And I kept moving in the direction of the West and it was flaming day and night toward the seven mountains of precious stones, three toward the east and three towards the south.
And I saw what was inside those mountains, a place beyond the great earth where the heavens come together. And I saw deep pit with heavenly fire on its pillars. I saw inside them descending pillars of fire that were immeasurable in respect to both altitude and depth. And on top of that pit I saw place without the heavily firmament above it or earthly foundations under it or water. There was nothing on it, not even birds. It was a desolate and terrible place. And I saw there the seven stars which were like great burning mountains [which were just described as flaming "stones"...]. Then the angel said to me, this place is the ultimate end of heaven and and earth. It is the prison house for the stars and the powers of heaven.

You get references to mountains; mountains are made of stone, mountains that were burning. They are described as this sort of flaming language. Flaming is the word that is used there in verse 6 of 1 Enoch 18. So the mountains are described as flaming. They’re described as precious stones, which in Ezekiel 28 are the shining luminous stone, so this shininess, this light, a brilliant appearance kind of thing. But then when you get down to verse 13, we get the star language. I saw the 7 stars there. And you think the stars, isn’t that like the language that’s used of divine beings, the sons of God in Job 38? It is but look at what Enoch does with it. I saw there the seven stars which were like great burning mountains.
Well now wait a minute. Well if the stars here, what’s going on here, stars, mountains, flaming fire mountains, and all this kind of stuff, what's going on? And then he actually turns it around the very next verse and says that this place is the prison house for the stars, the powers of heaven, a very clear reference to divine beings. So what Enoch does here is he actually emerges both options that these flaming stones, flaming mountains, flaming stars, brilliant luminous stars, that it's both the place and its also entities.

kinda interesting how this "prison house" description of seven burning stars and seven burning mountains could serve as a potential mirror reflection of God, with his own seven fiery holy ones who are "eyes" and associated with the menorah and yhwh's "presence",
or his "shekinah"

so my point: the divine council and these spiritual beings played a crucial role in the drama of lucifer's downfall, and the word links seem to support it. full transcript of the segment = https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/wp-conten ... f-Fire.pdf

i'm yet more convinced of the scriptural association between the sun, moon, stars and wandering stars (planets) with heavenly stewardships and divine beings/councilmembers -

psalm 148
Hallelujah! Praise the LORD from the heavens; praise him in the heights! [the cosmic mountaintop where the gods live and hold their assemblies]
Praise him, all his angels; praise him, all his hosts!
Praise him, sun and moon, praise him, all you shining stars!

TL;DR he basically makes connections that seem to associate the "stones of fire" with angelic beings, which goes right hand-in-hand with your associating it with how "He makes his servants as flaming fires", which I think is quite intuitive, and true.

Lots of times God's eapecial servants are likened to "stones" such as in 2 Peter, or in Psalms referring to Christ as the "chief cornerstone". Smaller pieces, of a larger supra`Identity.

Same principle seen in wicked examples of supra-identities:

• Matt 24
  Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. [Singular]But he answered them, “You see all these [Plural], do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will be left here not one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”

• Gen 11
  Now the whole earth had one [Singular
  ] language and the same words.
  And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks [Plural], and burn them thoroughly.” And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar.

^I think the burnt bricks of babel correlate with the fiery`stones of Eden.

The baptism of fire is spoken of in the scriptures as saints being refined into precious metals/stones that get used to build the superidentity of the Christly Forever`Temple.

I think the bricks that are "burned thoroughly" are a rebellious resemblance of that.

Excellent insights!

[Peeps]

He was the cherub that "covereth."

Ezekiel 28:14
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Covereth:
saw-kak'; or שָׂכַךְ sâkak; a primitive root; properly, to entwine as a screen; by implication, to fence in, cover over, (figuratively) protect:—cover, defence, defend, hedge in, join together, set, shut up.

The same term is used for breeding livestock, for example, a stallion "covers" mares. I believe he has already seeded himself in the flesh, and that is why it is so corrupt, lustful, insatiable, etc., and at constant war with our spirits. The stones of fire he was walking in the midst of were probably all of us in the preexistence. Like the Tree of Knowledge being placed in the midst of the Garden. You made the point about us being stones, that is scripturally sound, and it fits here too.

Interesting ..

One key to understanding this "cherub that covereth" language IMO has to do with the Ark of the Covenant, whereupon we have twin cherubim who *cover* it.

Interesting how in the example of the Ark it's two cherubim that "cover", whereas in the case of pre-fallen lucifer, he is the lone, singular covering-cherub. Makes me wonder about my speculations in my "female spirits in the premortality" thread, and the whole baphomet-hermaphroditism idea, versus the man+woman = one flesh thing. I've long wondered if the twin cherubim have some correlation with Man + Helpmeet, like post-redemption Adam + Eve maybe.

"Covereth" - again in the context of the Ark is likewise the origin of Atonement theology. In Hebrew, the "mercy seat" is not what it's actually called, but rather it comes from the word meaning "to cover".

Which seems to suggest some kind of priestly intercessory role, which is probably why lucifer is spoken of in Ezekiel 28 in such priestly terms.

Good catch about the twin cherubim on the "mercy seat!" Jesus Christ will abolish this twin system according to scripture.

Ephesians 2:
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.