Hello, I'm happy to be here.

[Neophyte]

As the name implies, I'm sort of new to well... everything. About eight years ago or so I was baptized into the Church while a college student. While I had entered into the Temple once to perform baptisms, I had never received my Patriarchal Blessing or gone much further than my baptism. School ended, life got in the way, I ended up working abroad for a while and threw myself into secular living, and my time in the Church became something of a curiosity I had pursued and never really followed through with.

I'm very depressed and have been for about a year. A lot of factors, and much of it comes down to worldly living. Two weeks ago I started listening to the BoM on audiobook, and I believe it is true, and feel comforted by the message. I want to be part of this again. I want to feel like I did when I first discovered it. About two years ago, as I was still getting texts from the missionaries in a state I no longer even lived, I had asked them to remove my records, and I understand that will require going through the process of baptism again, which I'm happy to do.

I do have a question though, for more conservative members here. Is the "mainline" Church of LDS still valid? Are they becoming too liberal to count as the true Church anymore? I admit to being a neophyte, but one thing that didn't sit well with me was how much the Church changed to suit the changing rules and mores of the US government. Are there better alternatives? Or is this the same church Christ and Joseph Smith founded and it has to bend to earthly rules for now so as to avoid breaking?

Forgive my ignorance. I want to do the right thing. I believe in Christ, and in Joseph Smith. I want to be part of a community, and be helpful. As I said, some things make me a bit skeptical (not of the religion but of the church structure), but I'm willing to put those feelings aside and just trust. I'll be moving to Arizona next month, if anyone has any recommendations for what to do.

Thank you a lot in advance. Sorry if I've broken any rules or been ignorant.

[~ternal-tummim]

There is no better alternative of which I am aware. And I am aware of many things. But not all.

I would recommend the mountains and not the Valley. Do you follow me? The specific people in the area, the ward and stake you will attend, is what will make all the difference. Make sure the county you move into is a pleasing dark, dark color of deep red.

815E08EA-442A-434F-84CE-477ED8B0A8D7.jpeg (125.25 KiB) Viewed 1408 times

OK, bright red in the case of that map. But Arizona has ridiculously large counties, so that covers up a lot of what’s going on. So I’m just telling you, general as-a-principle big-picture advice:

mountains,

small town,

commute.

I realize you probably got a job in Phoenix. Just commute. You can commute. It’ll give you time to listen to and enjoy podcasts, improve your mind.

[BeNotDeceived]

Welcome,

The church suffered greatly when they failed to abide Gods commands that included building the Nauvoo temple. Joseph in the Gap by Taylor Drake explains it well and some videos posted here too.

One recent patriarchal blessing had extraordinary language that some believe is indicative of a OMAS type individual, whose tasks are many. Part 3 of said book is likely erroneous speculation.

[creator]

Keep in mind, the Church is NOT the Gospel.

Community IS important (especially when among like-minded people) and for some that can be found in the Church, for others they've found that community outside of the Church.

The Gospel is important, especially when internalized, and can help you keep a focus on the eternal perspective and correct principles, as opposed to materialistic and worldly things.

[keeprunning]

Good luck in your pursuits, I hope you'll get your patriarchal blessing, I love having mine. Don't judge your new ward until you've been there at least a year-that's always helped me settle in and take time to find friends.

[Neophyte]

Hey everyone. Thank you so much for the warm welcome. I don't want to say where exactly in Arizona I'm living, not wanting to self-doxx, but I think it will be a very good move for me. I appreciate all the advice and I'm happy to pick up what is such an important journey that I had only half begun. I'll probably be more of a lurker here than a poster, I have a lot to learn.

[Niemand]

If you're still around after eight years, you've hung around a lot longer than many people who are baptized... welcome friend! I'm newish on this forum, having joined earlier this year.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Welcome to the forum

Or is this the same church Christ and Joseph Smith founded and it has to bend to earthly rules for now so as to avoid breaking?

To be honest, not even close. The leaders today are more concerned with following earthly rules than breaking them. It’s all over their conference addresses, talks, and social posts. They want us all to be “good global citizens” and to “follow the wise and thoughtful counsel” of “government leaders”...

Enough said.

We could get into long discussions about doctrinal aspects, but I believe that they have strayed from many core doctrines taught in the Book of Mormon. D&C 84:57 supports this, along with many parts of the BoM. I’ve created lots of threads diving into scripture, PM me if you’re interested and I can get you the links.

Follow the Spirit

As I said, some things make me a bit skeptical (not of the religion but of the church structure), but I'm willing to put those feelings aside and just trust.

As kindly as I can say it, this is the last thing that you ever want to do. Follow the counsel in 2 Nephi 28:31...

• ”Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.”

Blindly trusting any man is the most damning doctrine in the church today. It is anti-Christ in every sense, He taught against it strongly.

I’m in a similar place as you, believing in the BoM and many of the teachings of Joseph Smith. He was a prophet of God. But I feel that the LDS organization has gone off the tracks since then

I was serving a mission earlier this year, now my records have been removed. It’s a wild journey, stay close to the Spirit and put your trust in God above all else.

[gradles21]

Welcome to the forum! FYI missionaries can't remove your membership records so you won't need to get baptized again.

[Neophyte]

Thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement and support. I'm very excited to really just throw myself into this life, turn over a new leaf from my secular living and do my best to be a good and worthy man. I'm relieved to know that I'm still officially a church member, just inactive. I had been feeling this awful sense of guilt about apostacy lately ever since I decided this was really truth. I don't think I gave it much thought when I was a student, I was mostly just lonely and looking for some camaraderie, but now as a more mature man nearly in my 30s, and having done a lot of historical, Biblical, and paranormal research (amateur, as a hobbyist, but still) and the need for structure in my life and to reciprocate Christ's love, there's nothing I want more than to come back.

[LDS Watchman]

When it comes to the church, it's important to remember a few things:

1) While the church may not be the gospel it is definitely the vehicle by which the fulness of the gospel is administered. If you turn your back on the Lord's church, then there goes your access to the fulness of the gospel.

2) The Church is made up of flawed human beings from top to bottom. No one is perfect. Most are far from it. So if your expecting the church to be perfect or near perfect, you will be greatly disappointed. The church is true in spite of the problems. If you faithfully follow the core teachings of the church you will be blessed and find happiness.

3) Don't listen to all the critics and fault finders who would tell you that this is not the Lord's one and only true church, or worse that the church is leading you to hell. These people have nothing to offer you but a ruined testimony and life full of bitterness.

[kirtland r.m.]

It is still true. I can assure you of that. Be prepared to face opposition from Satan in your return. Focus hard on the Lord, and what he has said. Ask our Heavenly Father for help. Push forward, you will get his help, some of it through your fellow church members.

[Luke]

While the church may not be the gospel it is definitely the vehicle by which the fulness of the gospel is administered. If you turn your back on the Lord's church, then there goes your access to the fulness of the gospel.

A vehicle maybe, but not THE vehicle.

The Priesthood is above the Church, since it existed from the foundation of the world. The Aaronic Priesthood was first given before any institutional Church was founded.

Keeping your fixation on an earthly institution as the only place where salvation can be found (as you suppose) will prove a stumbling-block to you and many others. It is a false teaching. Do not believe it.

[LDS Watchman]

While the church may not be the gospel it is definitely the vehicle by which the fulness of the gospel is administered. If you turn your back on the Lord's church, then there goes your access to the fulness of the gospel.

A vehicle maybe, but not THE vehicle.

The Priesthood is above the Church, since it existed from the foundation of the world. The Aaronic Priesthood was first given before any institutional Church was founded.

Keeping your fixation on an earthly institution as the only place where salvation can be found (as you suppose) will prove a stumbling-block to you and many others. It is a false teaching. Do not believe it.

At present the church is THE vehicle for administering the fulness of the gospel. It is only within the church where the ordinances of salvation can legally be administered. Search the scriptures about the last days and the teachings of Joseph Smith. They both say that the fullness of the gospel is only administered within the Lord's church.

It's blatant false doctrine to teach that the fulness of the gospel is administered anywhere else at present.

[Luke]

While the church may not be the gospel it is definitely the vehicle by which the fulness of the gospel is administered. If you turn your back on the Lord's church, then there goes your access to the fulness of the gospel.

A vehicle maybe, but not THE vehicle.

The Priesthood is above the Church, since it existed from the foundation of the world. The Aaronic Priesthood was first given before any institutional Church was founded.

Keeping your fixation on an earthly institution as the only place where salvation can be found (as you suppose) will prove a stumbling-block to you and many others. It is a false teaching. Do not believe it.

At present the church is THE vehicle for administering the fulness of the gospel. It is only within the church where the ordinances of salvation can legally be administered. Search the scriptures about the last days and the teachings of Joseph Smith. They both say that the fullness of the gospel is only administered within the Lord's church.

It's blatant false doctrine to teach that the fulness of the gospel is administered anywhere else at present.

Then in response I ask you to show me where it says that the LDS Church (especially in its present state) is the only vehicle by which the Gospel is administered.

Brigham Young said (as you well know) that if the Church gave the blacks the Priesthood, the Priesthood would be taken from them.

[Chip]

Uh, the Book of Mormon is said to contain the fulness of the gospel. It's the truest thing the church has claim to.

[~ternal-tummim]

Thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement and support. I'm very excited to really just throw myself into this life, turn over a new leaf from my secular living and do my best to be a good and worthy man. I'm relieved to know that I'm still officially a church member, just inactive. I had been feeling this awful sense of guilt about apostacy lately ever since I decided this was really truth. I don't think I gave it much thought when I was a student, I was mostly just lonely and looking for some camaraderie, but now as a more mature man nearly in my 30s, and having done a lot of historical, Biblical, and paranormal research (amateur, as a hobbyist, but still) and the need for structure in my life and to reciprocate Christ's love, there's nothing I want more than to come back.

Oh, I should have also mentioned: we are all probably losing our jobs anyway, over not being vaxed, so then at that point you will be really *really* glad to be in a small town! Our rulers appear to be aimed to do this very soon, in the next few months.

I am assuming, of course, you have not succumbed to the vax. That your blood remains pure. And assuming that to be the case, the most important advice by far is simply:

Stay strong. Don’t get the vax.

Don’t become their genetic test tube. Don’t become yet another NPC statistic. Don’t let them taint your blood.

God will smile on you for your courage in this. He will protect you. He will make a way for you (and me, and all of us) to survive.

Right now there is a false idea circulating around Mormon circles that one should get the vax. As a newcomer (new-returner) you may be vulnerable to being susceptible to being confused by this. Know this: This is grossly false and affrontery to God. I am preaching to you True Mormonism. I am preaching to you the truth:

Don’t get the vax.

[Reluctant Watchman]

While the church may not be the gospel it is definitely the vehicle by which the fulness of the gospel is administered. If you turn your back on the Lord's church, then there goes your access to the fulness of the gospel.

A vehicle maybe, but not THE vehicle.

The Priesthood is above the Church, since it existed from the foundation of the world. The Aaronic Priesthood was first given before any institutional Church was founded.

Keeping your fixation on an earthly institution as the only place where salvation can be found (as you suppose) will prove a stumbling-block to you and many others. It is a false teaching. Do not believe it.

At present the church is THE vehicle for administering the fulness of the gospel. It is only within the church where the ordinances of salvation can legally be administered. Search the scriptures about the last days and the teachings of Joseph Smith. They both say that the fullness of the gospel is only administered within the Lord's church.

It's blatant false doctrine to teach that the fulness of the gospel is administered anywhere else at present.

I guess we should add that little quote from D&C 121 about unrighteous dominion. I can hear a great "Amen!!!" being shouted from the angelic choirs as the church bows to Babylon.

[LDS Watchman]

While the church may not be the gospel it is definitely the vehicle by which the fulness of the gospel is administered. If you turn your back on the Lord's church, then there goes your access to the fulness of the gospel.

A vehicle maybe, but not THE vehicle.

The Priesthood is above the Church, since it existed from the foundation of the world. The Aaronic Priesthood was first given before any institutional Church was founded.

Keeping your fixation on an earthly institution as the only place where salvation can be found (as you suppose) will prove a stumbling-block to you and many others. It is a false teaching. Do not believe it.

At present the church is THE vehicle for administering the fulness of the gospel. It is only within the church where the ordinances of salvation can legally be administered. Search the scriptures about the last days and the teachings of Joseph Smith. They both say that the fullness of the gospel is only administered within the Lord's church.

It's blatant false doctrine to teach that the fulness of the gospel is administered anywhere else at present.

Then in response I ask you to show me where it says that the LDS Church (especially in its present state) is the only vehicle by which the Gospel is administered.

Brigham Young said (as you well know) that if the Church gave the blacks the Priesthood, the Priesthood would be taken from them.

I will create a thread that proves that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only vehicle by which the fulness of the gospel is administered when I get a chance.

In the meantime, I will remind you that the Lord said that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is his only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth and his last days church.

He also said that the church was his last kingdom and that the church had received the keys of his kingdom for the last time. He gave the church the authority to perform his saving ordinances and to proclaim his everlasting gospel to the ends of the earth.

As for Brigham Young, do you believe every word he ever uttered is the infallible and unchangeable word of God?

In regards to blacks, he also said they would get the priesthood one day. I believe his statement about the LDS church losing the priesthood if they gave it to blacks, referred to Brigham Young's day up to the point in time when God authorized them to get it. It didn't mean that the church could never at any point give them the priesthood with God's permission.

[LDS Watchman]

While the church may not be the gospel it is definitely the vehicle by which the fulness of the gospel is administered. If you turn your back on the Lord's church, then there goes your access to the fulness of the gospel.

A vehicle maybe, but not THE vehicle.

The Priesthood is above the Church, since it existed from the foundation of the world. The Aaronic Priesthood was first given before any institutional Church was founded.

Keeping your fixation on an earthly institution as the only place where salvation can be found (as you suppose) will prove a stumbling-block to you and many others. It is a false teaching. Do not believe it.

At present the church is THE vehicle for administering the fulness of the gospel. It is only within the church where the ordinances of salvation can legally be administered. Search the scriptures about the last days and the teachings of Joseph Smith. They both say that the fullness of the gospel is only administered within the Lord's church.

It's blatant false doctrine to teach that the fulness of the gospel is administered anywhere else at present.

I guess we should add that little quote from D&C 121 about unrighteous dominion. I can hear a great "Amen!!!" being shouted from the angelic choirs as the church bows to Babylon.

I think you hear a great Amen alright, only its not from angelic choirs, its from the mockers in a certain strange building Nephi saw.

[Reluctant Watchman]

A vehicle maybe, but not THE vehicle.

The Priesthood is above the Church, since it existed from the foundation of the world. The Aaronic Priesthood was first given before any institutional Church was founded.

Keeping your fixation on an earthly institution as the only place where salvation can be found (as you suppose) will prove a stumbling-block to you and many others. It is a false teaching. Do not believe it.

At present the church is THE vehicle for administering the fulness of the gospel. It is only within the church where the ordinances of salvation can legally be administered. Search the scriptures about the last days and the teachings of Joseph Smith. They both say that the fullness of the gospel is only administered within the Lord's church.

It's blatant false doctrine to teach that the fulness of the gospel is administered anywhere else at present.

I guess we should add that little quote from D&C 121 about unrighteous dominion. I can hear a great "Amen!!!" being shouted from the angelic choirs as the church bows to Babylon.

I think you hear a great Amen alright, only its not from angelic choirs, its from the mockers in a certain strange building Nephi saw.

It's ok Atti, I pray for you, just as I'm sure you pray for me.

[LDS Watchman]

At present the church is THE vehicle for administering the fulness of the gospel. It is only within the church where the ordinances of salvation can legally be administered. Search the scriptures about the last days and the teachings of Joseph Smith. They both say that the fullness of the gospel is only administered within the Lord's church.

It's blatant false doctrine to teach that the fulness of the gospel is administered anywhere else at present.

I guess we should add that little quote from D&C 121 about unrighteous dominion. I can hear a great "Amen!!!" being shouted from the angelic choirs as the church bows to Babylon.

I think you hear a great Amen alright, only its not from angelic choirs, its from the mockers in a certain strange building Nephi saw.

It's ok Atti, I pray for you, just as I'm sure you pray for me.

Praying for someone is great and all, but I don't know that it means much when you also mock and falsely accuse them. Just saying.

[Reluctant Watchman]

Praying for someone is great and all, but I don't know that it means much when you also mock and falsely accuse them. Just saying.

ok, I'll still pray for you.

[kirtland r.m.]

Neophyte, keep in touch, and let us know how you are doing. Use this thread if you wish. Your hard work will all be worth it. You also have many friends here.

[Neophyte]

Neophyte, keep in touch, and let us know how you are doing. Use this thread if you wish. Your hard work will all be worth it. You also have many friends here.

Thank you so much. I've called up the mission leader in the new town I'm moving to, and he said my records still say I'm a member in good standing, which was a great relief. I'll keep you updated as to how things move along. I've been praying hard and studying the BoM and a few books pertaining to Israelite and Christian history, and hope in time to receive my Patriarchal Blessing.