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LDS FREEDOM Forum Thanksgiving

Posted: November 24th, 2021, 9:00 pm
by tribrac
We all remember the same story we were told as a young child about Thanksgiving — in a nutshell the Pilgrims invited the Indians over for a big feast to thank them for teaching them how to grow corn.

This story was reinforced through grade school, in TV shows and beyond. It has become part of the fabric of our society. But like the story of George Washington cutting down the cherry tree it is not accurate.

What is true is that the Indians did help the Pilgrims survive after the Mayflower landed in the new world.

As Paul Harvey would have said, “now for the rest of the story.”

The 40 Pilgrims who sailed on the Mayflower were led by a man named William Bradford. On their journey across the Atlantic they signed an agreement setting out rules of how the group would live once they reached the new world.

They based this agreement on what they had learned from the Bible.

The contract called for everything the Pilgrims produced to go into a common store, with each member entitled to an equal share. So, all the land that was cleared, crops harvested and houses that were built belonged to the community. A percentage of their bounty was set aside to be sent back to Europe to pay the investors who made their trip possible.

In this settlement no one owned anything. It was socialism, pure and simple.

During the first winter, half of the Pilgrims died, including William Bradford’s own wife, of starvation, sickness and exposure. When spring arrived, the Native Americans did teach the settlers how to plant corn, how to fish for cod, and skin beavers for coats. Life improved for the Pilgrims, but there were still problems.

Because no individual reaped the rewards of their own work, there were those who slacked off, doing as little as possible to get by. On the other end of the stick there were those who worked hard to make sure there was enough for everyone.

I bet you can figure out what happened next. There were two types of people — those who worked hard and resented the others and those who were basically lazy, doing the bare minimum.

Bradford was smart enough to see the friction that was caused from the original contract they had all signed on the Mayflower.

So a new contract was created based on capitalism — what you grow you keep, what you build is yours, what you make you can sell, the harder you work the more you earn.

Bradford wrote about all of this in his journal “for it made all hands industrious so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been.”

This is why the original Pilgrims gave thanks. It was not because the Indians saved them, but to thank God for helping them survive.

With socialism no one has an incentive to work because there is no reward proportionate to your labor. Now in America there are some politicians on the political left who want to change America to a socialist country. If you are lazy and don’t like to work, this system is for you. If you enjoy working hard and seeing the fruits of your labor this should scare you like it does me.

History consistently has shown that socialism leads to poverty and unrest. Right now Venezuela is undergoing an economic crisis which is largely deemed to be a result of socialism.

For some more history; George Washington made the first proclamation of a national day of thanksgiving in 1789. “Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be.”

The holiday wasn’t made official until 1863, when President Abraham Lincoln declared it as a kind of thank you for the Civil War victories in Vicksburg, Miss., and Gettysburg, Pa.

Tomorrow, like many of you, our family will gather around the dinner table and give thanks. We will give thanks to God for our family and all our blessings.

My prayer is that you have much to be thankful for also.

From https://www.gasconadecountyrepublican.c ... iving,3051

Re: LDS FREEDOM Forum Thanksgiving

Posted: November 24th, 2021, 9:12 pm
by Subcomandante
tribrac wrote: November 24th, 2021, 9:00 pm We all remember the same story we were told as a young child about Thanksgiving — in a nutshell the Pilgrims invited the Indians over for a big feast to thank them for teaching them how to grow corn.

This story was reinforced through grade school, in TV shows and beyond. It has become part of the fabric of our society. But like the story of George Washington cutting down the cherry tree it is not accurate.

What is true is that the Indians did help the Pilgrims survive after the Mayflower landed in the new world.

As Paul Harvey would have said, “now for the rest of the story.”

The 40 Pilgrims who sailed on the Mayflower were led by a man named William Bradford. On their journey across the Atlantic they signed an agreement setting out rules of how the group would live once they reached the new world.

They based this agreement on what they had learned from the Bible.

The contract called for everything the Pilgrims produced to go into a common store, with each member entitled to an equal share. So, all the land that was cleared, crops harvested and houses that were built belonged to the community. A percentage of their bounty was set aside to be sent back to Europe to pay the investors who made their trip possible.

In this settlement no one owned anything. It was socialism, pure and simple.

During the first winter, half of the Pilgrims died, including William Bradford’s own wife, of starvation, sickness and exposure. When spring arrived, the Native Americans did teach the settlers how to plant corn, how to fish for cod, and skin beavers for coats. Life improved for the Pilgrims, but there were still problems.

Because no individual reaped the rewards of their own work, there were those who slacked off, doing as little as possible to get by. On the other end of the stick there were those who worked hard to make sure there was enough for everyone.

I bet you can figure out what happened next. There were two types of people — those who worked hard and resented the others and those who were basically lazy, doing the bare minimum.

Bradford was smart enough to see the friction that was caused from the original contract they had all signed on the Mayflower.

So a new contract was created based on capitalism — what you grow you keep, what you build is yours, what you make you can sell, the harder you work the more you earn.

Bradford wrote about all of this in his journal “for it made all hands industrious so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been.”

This is why the original Pilgrims gave thanks. It was not because the Indians saved them, but to thank God for helping them survive.

With socialism no one has an incentive to work because there is no reward proportionate to your labor. Now in America there are some politicians on the political left who want to change America to a socialist country. If you are lazy and don’t like to work, this system is for you. If you enjoy working hard and seeing the fruits of your labor this should scare you like it does me.

History consistently has shown that socialism leads to poverty and unrest. Right now Venezuela is undergoing an economic crisis which is largely deemed to be a result of socialism.

For some more history; George Washington made the first proclamation of a national day of thanksgiving in 1789. “Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be.”

The holiday wasn’t made official until 1863, when President Abraham Lincoln declared it as a kind of thank you for the Civil War victories in Vicksburg, Miss., and Gettysburg, Pa.

Tomorrow, like many of you, our family will gather around the dinner table and give thanks. We will give thanks to God for our family and all our blessings.

My prayer is that you have much to be thankful for also.

From https://www.gasconadecountyrepublican.c ... iving,3051
This history is essential and should be required reading.

Re: LDS FREEDOM Forum Thanksgiving

Posted: November 24th, 2021, 9:20 pm
by Chip
Subcomandante wrote: November 24th, 2021, 9:12 pm
tribrac wrote: November 24th, 2021, 9:00 pm We all remember the same story we were told as a young child about Thanksgiving — in a nutshell the Pilgrims invited the Indians over for a big feast to thank them for teaching them how to grow corn.

This story was reinforced through grade school, in TV shows and beyond. It has become part of the fabric of our society. But like the story of George Washington cutting down the cherry tree it is not accurate.

What is true is that the Indians did help the Pilgrims survive after the Mayflower landed in the new world.

As Paul Harvey would have said, “now for the rest of the story.”

The 40 Pilgrims who sailed on the Mayflower were led by a man named William Bradford. On their journey across the Atlantic they signed an agreement setting out rules of how the group would live once they reached the new world.

They based this agreement on what they had learned from the Bible.

The contract called for everything the Pilgrims produced to go into a common store, with each member entitled to an equal share. So, all the land that was cleared, crops harvested and houses that were built belonged to the community. A percentage of their bounty was set aside to be sent back to Europe to pay the investors who made their trip possible.

In this settlement no one owned anything. It was socialism, pure and simple.

During the first winter, half of the Pilgrims died, including William Bradford’s own wife, of starvation, sickness and exposure. When spring arrived, the Native Americans did teach the settlers how to plant corn, how to fish for cod, and skin beavers for coats. Life improved for the Pilgrims, but there were still problems.

Because no individual reaped the rewards of their own work, there were those who slacked off, doing as little as possible to get by. On the other end of the stick there were those who worked hard to make sure there was enough for everyone.

I bet you can figure out what happened next. There were two types of people — those who worked hard and resented the others and those who were basically lazy, doing the bare minimum.

Bradford was smart enough to see the friction that was caused from the original contract they had all signed on the Mayflower.

So a new contract was created based on capitalism — what you grow you keep, what you build is yours, what you make you can sell, the harder you work the more you earn.

Bradford wrote about all of this in his journal “for it made all hands industrious so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been.”

This is why the original Pilgrims gave thanks. It was not because the Indians saved them, but to thank God for helping them survive.

With socialism no one has an incentive to work because there is no reward proportionate to your labor. Now in America there are some politicians on the political left who want to change America to a socialist country. If you are lazy and don’t like to work, this system is for you. If you enjoy working hard and seeing the fruits of your labor this should scare you like it does me.

History consistently has shown that socialism leads to poverty and unrest. Right now Venezuela is undergoing an economic crisis which is largely deemed to be a result of socialism.

For some more history; George Washington made the first proclamation of a national day of thanksgiving in 1789. “Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be.”

The holiday wasn’t made official until 1863, when President Abraham Lincoln declared it as a kind of thank you for the Civil War victories in Vicksburg, Miss., and Gettysburg, Pa.

Tomorrow, like many of you, our family will gather around the dinner table and give thanks. We will give thanks to God for our family and all our blessings.

My prayer is that you have much to be thankful for also.

From https://www.gasconadecountyrepublican.c ... iving,3051
This history is essential and should be required reading.

Would you be willing to require people to read it, or would you like others to enforce the requirement?

Re: LDS FREEDOM Forum Thanksgiving

Posted: November 24th, 2021, 9:25 pm
by Subcomandante
Chip wrote: November 24th, 2021, 9:20 pm
Subcomandante wrote: November 24th, 2021, 9:12 pm
tribrac wrote: November 24th, 2021, 9:00 pm We all remember the same story we were told as a young child about Thanksgiving — in a nutshell the Pilgrims invited the Indians over for a big feast to thank them for teaching them how to grow corn.

This story was reinforced through grade school, in TV shows and beyond. It has become part of the fabric of our society. But like the story of George Washington cutting down the cherry tree it is not accurate.

What is true is that the Indians did help the Pilgrims survive after the Mayflower landed in the new world.

As Paul Harvey would have said, “now for the rest of the story.”

The 40 Pilgrims who sailed on the Mayflower were led by a man named William Bradford. On their journey across the Atlantic they signed an agreement setting out rules of how the group would live once they reached the new world.

They based this agreement on what they had learned from the Bible.

The contract called for everything the Pilgrims produced to go into a common store, with each member entitled to an equal share. So, all the land that was cleared, crops harvested and houses that were built belonged to the community. A percentage of their bounty was set aside to be sent back to Europe to pay the investors who made their trip possible.

In this settlement no one owned anything. It was socialism, pure and simple.

During the first winter, half of the Pilgrims died, including William Bradford’s own wife, of starvation, sickness and exposure. When spring arrived, the Native Americans did teach the settlers how to plant corn, how to fish for cod, and skin beavers for coats. Life improved for the Pilgrims, but there were still problems.

Because no individual reaped the rewards of their own work, there were those who slacked off, doing as little as possible to get by. On the other end of the stick there were those who worked hard to make sure there was enough for everyone.

I bet you can figure out what happened next. There were two types of people — those who worked hard and resented the others and those who were basically lazy, doing the bare minimum.

Bradford was smart enough to see the friction that was caused from the original contract they had all signed on the Mayflower.

So a new contract was created based on capitalism — what you grow you keep, what you build is yours, what you make you can sell, the harder you work the more you earn.

Bradford wrote about all of this in his journal “for it made all hands industrious so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been.”

This is why the original Pilgrims gave thanks. It was not because the Indians saved them, but to thank God for helping them survive.

With socialism no one has an incentive to work because there is no reward proportionate to your labor. Now in America there are some politicians on the political left who want to change America to a socialist country. If you are lazy and don’t like to work, this system is for you. If you enjoy working hard and seeing the fruits of your labor this should scare you like it does me.

History consistently has shown that socialism leads to poverty and unrest. Right now Venezuela is undergoing an economic crisis which is largely deemed to be a result of socialism.

For some more history; George Washington made the first proclamation of a national day of thanksgiving in 1789. “Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be.”

The holiday wasn’t made official until 1863, when President Abraham Lincoln declared it as a kind of thank you for the Civil War victories in Vicksburg, Miss., and Gettysburg, Pa.

Tomorrow, like many of you, our family will gather around the dinner table and give thanks. We will give thanks to God for our family and all our blessings.

My prayer is that you have much to be thankful for also.

From https://www.gasconadecountyrepublican.c ... iving,3051
This history is essential and should be required reading.

Would you be willing to require people to read it, or would you like others to enforce the requirement?
I'm getting ahead of myself. People should read this and learn from this. There would be fewer socialists as a result.

Re: LDS FREEDOM Forum Thanksgiving

Posted: November 24th, 2021, 10:07 pm
by tribrac
Bradford described in his diary, the reasoning behind the change of plans and why it worked:

“The experience that was had in this common course and condition, tried sundry years and that amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the vanity of that conceit of Plato’s and other ancients applauded by some of later times; that the taking away of property and bringing in community into a commonwealth would make them happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser than God. For this community (so far as it was) was found to breed much confusion and discontent and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. For the young men, that were most able and fit for labour and service, did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men’s wives and children without any recompense. The strong, or man of parts, had no more division of victuals and clothes than he that was weak and not able to do a quarter than the other could; this was thought injustice. The aged and graver men to be ranked and equalized in labours, victuals, clothes, etc., with the meaner and younger sort, thought it some indignity and disrespect unto them. And for men’s wives to be commanded to do service for other men, as dressing their meat, washing their clothes, etc., they deemed it a kind of slavery, neither could many husbands well brook it.”

Re: LDS FREEDOM Forum Thanksgiving

Posted: November 24th, 2021, 10:21 pm
by tribrac
Bradford's account could easily be an account written by Joseph Smith or BrighM Young desvribing the early church experience with living Zion.

Bradford called it the conceit of Plato to think a people could live in a communal utopia. And bradfords people were strict Christians, who were far removed from outside influences and had a deaperate need for each other.

Ultimatley it is the hearts of mankind
.. our fears, our jealousies, our insecurities, that keeps us from living Zion. May we pray for a time soon when the Prince of Peace comes to show us how to live.

Re: LDS FREEDOM Forum Thanksgiving

Posted: November 24th, 2021, 10:36 pm
by BeNotDeceived
Chip wrote: November 24th, 2021, 9:20 pm
Subcomandante wrote: November 24th, 2021, 9:12 pm
tribrac wrote: November 24th, 2021, 9:00 pm We all remember the same story we were told as a young child about Thanksgiving — in a nutshell the Pilgrims invited the Indians over for a big feast to thank them for teaching them how to grow corn.

This story was reinforced through grade school, in TV shows and beyond. It has become part of the fabric of our society. But like the story of George Washington cutting down the cherry tree it is not accurate.

What is true is that the Indians did help the Pilgrims survive after the Mayflower landed in the new world.

As Paul Harvey would have said, “now for the rest of the story.”

The 40 Pilgrims who sailed on the Mayflower were led by a man named William Bradford. On their journey across the Atlantic they signed an agreement setting out rules of how the group would live once they reached the new world.

They based this agreement on what they had learned from the Bible.

The contract called for everything the Pilgrims produced to go into a common store, with each member entitled to an equal share. So, all the land that was cleared, crops harvested and houses that were built belonged to the community. A percentage of their bounty was set aside to be sent back to Europe to pay the investors who made their trip possible.

In this settlement no one owned anything. It was socialism, pure and simple.

During the first winter, half of the Pilgrims died, including William Bradford’s own wife, of starvation, sickness and exposure. When spring arrived, the Native Americans did teach the settlers how to plant corn, how to fish for cod, and skin beavers for coats. Life improved for the Pilgrims, but there were still problems.

Because no individual reaped the rewards of their own work, there were those who slacked off, doing as little as possible to get by. On the other end of the stick there were those who worked hard to make sure there was enough for everyone.

I bet you can figure out what happened next. There were two types of people — those who worked hard and resented the others and those who were basically lazy, doing the bare minimum.

Bradford was smart enough to see the friction that was caused from the original contract they had all signed on the Mayflower.

So a new contract was created based on capitalism — what you grow you keep, what you build is yours, what you make you can sell, the harder you work the more you earn.

Bradford wrote about all of this in his journal “for it made all hands industrious so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been.”

This is why the original Pilgrims gave thanks. It was not because the Indians saved them, but to thank God for helping them survive.

With socialism no one has an incentive to work because there is no reward proportionate to your labor. Now in America there are some politicians on the political left who want to change America to a socialist country. If you are lazy and don’t like to work, this system is for you. If you enjoy working hard and seeing the fruits of your labor this should scare you like it does me.

History consistently has shown that socialism leads to poverty and unrest. Right now Venezuela is undergoing an economic crisis which is largely deemed to be a result of socialism.

For some more history; George Washington made the first proclamation of a national day of thanksgiving in 1789. “Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be.”

The holiday wasn’t made official until 1863, when President Abraham Lincoln declared it as a kind of thank you for the Civil War victories in Vicksburg, Miss., and Gettysburg, Pa.

Tomorrow, like many of you, our family will gather around the dinner table and give thanks. We will give thanks to God for our family and all our blessings.

My prayer is that you have much to be thankful for also.

From https://www.gasconadecountyrepublican.c ... iving,3051
This history is essential and should be required reading.

Would you be willing to require people to read it, or would you like others to enforce the requirement?
They must, they must read it :!:

Clockwork Orange Method is AUTHORIZED.

It is IMPERATIVE that all MUST read it ASAP :!:

Re: LDS FREEDOM Forum Thanksgiving

Posted: November 25th, 2021, 2:32 am
by Robin Hood
Happy Thanksgiving to all you guys.
We don't have it over here of course, but we do in my family as my son-in-law is American and wisely traded a place in the promised land for marriage to my eldest daughter. We're going round there this evening for a Thanksgiving meal.

Re: LDS FREEDOM Forum Thanksgiving

Posted: November 25th, 2021, 5:39 am
by Niemand
This sounds a bit of an oversimplification. This is more like the collective life people used to have, rather than "socialism". (And if you know anything about Soviet history, the Bolsheviks actually went and suppressed such village communes, because they were a threat to state control.)

I think it is pretty normal to have some kind of collective/commune/co-operative for certain purposes... that is quite normal in traditional rural areas. Sometimes you need a group of people to perform a certain activity that one or two people can't do on their own. My parents used to help people bring in the harvest for example, when we lived in northern Scotland. I don't think they got paid anything to do it, but they got favours in return. Even "rival" farmers helped each other. A sort of "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours".

If someone was lazy in such a scenario, then they likely wouldn't get much help back the way, so there was an incentive cycle.

The difference here is that there wasn't state interference or force involved.