LDS Freedom Forum

Niemand wrote: ↑November 25th, 2021, 7:42 amOne idea, going off the LDS path, is that something from future events, and especially mass traumas, travels back into the past.

~ternal-tummim wrote: ↑November 26th, 2021, 6:14 am

Niemand wrote: ↑November 25th, 2021, 7:42 amOne idea, going off the LDS path, is that something from future events, and especially mass traumas, travels back into the past.

Nothing from the future can come back to the past. Period. The whole concept is nonsensical, impossible to even conceive in any coherent way, and thus it proves itself false.

This is how future-predicting prophecy works. The seeds of the future sickness already existed in the child and their systems simply were sensitive enough to detect them, even though more crude sensing mechanisms were still oblivious to them. The seeds of future events already exist in many ways.

Niemand wrote: ↑November 26th, 2021, 6:30 am

~ternal-tummim wrote: ↑November 26th, 2021, 6:14 am

Niemand wrote: ↑November 25th, 2021, 7:42 amOne idea, going off the LDS path, is that something from future events, and especially mass traumas, travels back into the past.

Nothing from the future can come back to the past. Period. The whole concept is nonsensical, impossible to even conceive in any coherent way, and thus it proves itself false.

Except it's all over the Book of Mormon and other scriptures, Revelation and Daniel especially. Time is not neat and linear.

I remember having this hilarious conversation with atheist sceptics who were moaning about lab experiments which suggested people had a degree of precognition. The experiments were delivering results which were higher than chance, although they were far from perfect. They argued that the experiments must be faulty etc, even though they had been conducted under tight conditions etc. I said to them that if they were so scientifically minded, then they should examine this.

People dream about the future on a frequent basis. Maybe not individually, but certainly the human race does. A number of people had dreams about the Titanic or Hindenburg. Some even cancelled their tickets if they were due to board.

People often get a feeling that someone is about to call them before they do. Sceptics put this down to frequent calls from the same person, but it also happens when someone hasn't called for a long long time - ten years or more. Again, not as uncommon as you might think.

Now I know some people argue that these are spiritual promptings or even demonic in some cases, but they do happen.

This is how future-predicting prophecy works. The seeds of the future sickness already existed in the child and their systems simply were sensitive enough to detect them, even though more crude sensing mechanisms were still oblivious to them. The seeds of future events already exist in many ways.

Not really. I dreamt of a terrorist attack three days before it happened. I lived hundreds of miles away from where it happened, had no connection to any of those involved and the information was of no use to me. But I told my mother, who I was living with at the time, and then lo and behold, three days later, the event happened. She was stunned. It was an unsuccessful IRA attack near London, but there were a couple of details to it which were unusual such as attacking a train and they had not done previously for years - I had picked up on those. Of course, I can't prove that now.

I also had premonitions of this lockdown in 2019. I know of other people who did. The dream had a couple of very specific details to it. I put it down to mental health at the time, but in retrospect it was predictive.

~ternal-tummim wrote: ↑November 26th, 2021, 7:13 am

Niemand wrote: ↑November 26th, 2021, 6:30 am

~ternal-tummim wrote: ↑November 26th, 2021, 6:14 am

Niemand wrote: ↑November 25th, 2021, 7:42 amOne idea, going off the LDS path, is that something from future events, and especially mass traumas, travels back into the past.

Nothing from the future can come back to the past. Period. The whole concept is nonsensical, impossible to even conceive in any coherent way, and thus it proves itself false.

Except it's all over the Book of Mormon and other scriptures, Revelation and Daniel especially. Time is not neat and linear.

I remember having this hilarious conversation with atheist sceptics who were moaning about lab experiments which suggested people had a degree of precognition. The experiments were delivering results which were higher than chance, although they were far from perfect. They argued that the experiments must be faulty etc, even though they had been conducted under tight conditions etc. I said to them that if they were so scientifically minded, then they should examine this.

People dream about the future on a frequent basis. Maybe not individually, but certainly the human race does. A number of people had dreams about the Titanic or Hindenburg. Some even cancelled their tickets if they were due to board.

People often get a feeling that someone is about to call them before they do. Sceptics put this down to frequent calls from the same person, but it also happens when someone hasn't called for a long long time - ten years or more. Again, not as uncommon as you might think.

Now I know some people argue that these are spiritual promptings or even demonic in some cases, but they do happen.

This is how future-predicting prophecy works. The seeds of the future sickness already existed in the child and their systems simply were sensitive enough to detect them, even though more crude sensing mechanisms were still oblivious to them. The seeds of future events already exist in many ways.

Not really. I dreamt of a terrorist attack three days before it happened. I lived hundreds of miles away from where it happened, had no connection to any of those involved and the information was of no use to me. But I told my mother, who I was living with at the time, and then lo and behold, three days later, the event happened. She was stunned. It was an unsuccessful IRA attack near London, but there were a couple of details to it which were unusual such as attacking a train and they had not done previously for years - I had picked up on those. Of course, I can't prove that now.

I also had premonitions of this lockdown in 2019. I know of other people who did. The dream had a couple of very specific details to it. I put it down to mental health at the time, but in retrospect it was predictive.

Time is just motion. That's all. It's measuring one motion in relation to another motion. Another motion such as: water dripping, the sun rising and setting, or gears moving as a weight gradually lowers and a pendulum swings. We choose those other motions as the gauges for measurement because they are, we believe and perceive, moving at a regular and constant rate.

That's all time is.

You're welcome.

Now, again: seeds already existing. Remember about that? Unsurprisingly you have not understood, but I believe others will happen across this who will understand. Prophecies such as you had, and such as the prophets of old have had, are very real and possible in my no-impossible-nonsense model. Because, you see: there is a God. God lives and is in (some degree of) communication with us (depending on our openness and righteousness). God is very very smart. Like the Farmer's insurance adjusters, He has seen a lot. He kinda like, knows people. He knows how things work. He's seen this all before. He knows how stuff plays out. Anything He hasn't seen or is confused about? He could just ask His Father. Or His. Right? Eternal regression. Worlds without end.

God, looking down at the world from above and seeing the big picture, is then free to share that information with whomever He sees fit, such as yourself. Your own personal examples *definitely* *extra-much* obviously don't require any temporal gymnastics routines, because surely the IRA guys were planning their mostly peaceful at least three days in advance? And God and his angels, were presumably privy to these plots?

It really isn't that complicated. It certainly doesn't need to include any impossible-to-understand nonsense like making "time" an actual "thing" which can then somehow be "travelled in" or perhaps even exited and thus transcended.

Having an accurate model of reality allows one to predict the future. The ability to make accurate predictions is the way to know if your model of reality is good. If you understand things, you can see where they are going. If you really understand a machine, the engine and other mechanicals of an automobile for instance, you can predict what's going to happen with it. Is it in good shape, or about to clunk out? Engine due for an overhaul, or just new plugs? If you have a true understanding of things, you can make accurate predictions. Men can do it. Gods can do it. It really really is not esoteric or voodoo or complicated. At all.

The whole concept is nonsensical, impossible to even conceive in any coherent way, and thus it proves itself false.

Artaxerxes wrote: ↑November 26th, 2021, 9:40 am Time does not exist to God. "All things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord."

~ternal-tummim wrote: ↑November 26th, 2021, 7:13 amTime is just motion. That's all. It's measuring one motion in relation to another motion. Another motion such as: water dripping, the sun rising and setting, or gears moving as a weight gradually lowers and a pendulum swings. We choose those other motions as the gauges for measurement because they are, we believe and perceive, moving at a regular and constant rate.

That's all time is.

You're welcome.

Now, again: seeds already existing. Remember about that? Unsurprisingly you have not understood, but I believe others will happen across this who will understand. Prophecies such as you had, and such as the prophets of old have had, are very real and possible in my no-impossible-nonsense model. Because, you see: there is a God. God lives and is in (some degree of) communication with us (depending on our openness and righteousness). God is very very smart. Like the Farmer's insurance adjusters, He has seen a lot. He kinda like, knows people. He knows how things work. He's seen this all before. He knows how stuff plays out. Anything He hasn't seen or is confused about? He could just ask His Father. Or His. Right? Eternal regression. Worlds without end.

God, looking down at the world from above and seeing the big picture, is then free to share that information with whomever He sees fit, such as yourself. Your own personal examples *definitely* *extra-much* obviously don't require any temporal gymnastics routines, because surely the IRA guys were planning their mostly peaceful at least three days in advance? And God and his angels, were presumably privy to these plots?

It really isn't that complicated. It certainly doesn't need to include any impossible-to-understand nonsense like making "time" an actual "thing" which can then somehow be "travelled in" or perhaps even exited and thus transcended.

Having an accurate model of reality allows one to predict the future. The ability to make accurate predictions is the way to know if your model of reality is good. If you understand things, you can see where they are going. If you really understand a machine, the engine and other mechanicals of an automobile for instance, you can predict what's going to happen with it. Is it in good shape, or about to clunk out? Engine due for an overhaul, or just new plugs? If you have a true understanding of things, you can make accurate predictions. Men can do it. Gods can do it. It really really is not esoteric or voodoo or complicated. At all.

Original_Intent wrote: ↑November 23rd, 2021, 7:39 pm I dreamt that I was on a beach and suddenly two people were falling from the sky. They weren't falling FROM anything (like a balloon or an airplane. One of them struck the earth near me and I ran there to see if there was anything I could do but they were clearly dead. I don't remember seeing the other one hit the ground or if they landed in the water. Also the one that landed near me I got a good look at their face and it was no one I recognized.

I did look up and there were more people falling. I remember counting and there were thirteen others falling. (I seriously pondered this dream all day until around 4 p.m. it dawned on me that this was 15 total and maybe it referred to the 15 PSRs.) I wondered where they were falling from, and I was immediately carried to the top of a mountain and into the inside of an adobe structure that was in ruins. I remember there were big chunks of wall missing and no glass in the window frame, etc. I was impressed that something like a tornado had struck the building which was not all that big, and those 15 people had been sucked out by the tornado and then I guess just ejected and fell from the sky.

After a lot of pondering my FEELING is the 15 are the First Presidency and quorum of the twelve. perhaps not the current ones. I'll also emphasize that I only saw the final fate of ONE, I was left with the impression that the 2nd one also died but I didn't see it. And the other thirteen I only saw them falling but was carried to the mountain top while they were still falling and were still high up.

Because of the mountain top, I feel that the adobe ruin represented either a temple or the church. It just now struck me that it was a HOUSE because "On my house shall (the cleansing) begin".

And I'll be the first to admit that this could all just be my subconscious throwing archetypes at me. I'm not claiming prophecy or that my interpretation is on point. Like I said, I can only tell you that I had this dream and the impressions I have had.