LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 3:34 pm**

It astounds me how much false doctrine just gets rattled off over the pulpit. There doesn’t seem to be anyway to stop it. The Holy Ghost is constantly whispering to me what true doctrine is.

Today, the week before leaving on her mission, a young sister spoke in sacrament meeting. As she was closing her talk she said she was grateful for the medical profession and she knew it was an extension of the atonement of Jesus Christ. The Holy Ghost kicked into gear and while shaking his head said to me, Jesus Christ doesn’t need an extension. He is God and is completely independent, all encompassing, all powerful and all knowing. He doesn’t need the medical profession in order to heal any of us.

Is my ward the only ward false doctrine goes unchallenged?

What do you do when you hear it?

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm**

I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 3:40 pm**

Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil

I don’t think it’s even remotely ok to compare the works of man to the atonement of Christ. Period. Especially not as an addition.

I see what you mean, but that’s not what this young woman’s wording implied IMO...

How can you “extend” an infinite sacrifice?

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 3:46 pm**

Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil

It happened to the church, and is the expected outcome.

gbng

Fortunately plans are in place and 2023 is written in the stars according to one
https://stellarium.org/ Aficionado.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 3:54 pm**

Lineman1012 wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:34 pm It astounds me how much false doctrine just gets rattled off over the pulpit. There doesn’t seem to be anyway to stop it. The Holy Ghost is constantly whispering to me what true doctrine is.

Today, the week before leaving on her mission, a young sister spoke in sacrament meeting. As she was closing her talk she said she was grateful for the medical profession and she knew it was an extension of the atonement of Jesus Christ. The Holy Ghost kicked into gear and while shaking his head said to me, Jesus Christ doesn’t need an extension. He is God and is completely independent, all encompassing, all powerful and all knowing. He doesn’t need the medical profession in order to heal any of us.

Is my ward the only ward false doctrine goes unchallenged?

What do you do when you hear it?

The Priesthood is the only authorized extension of Christ - - being that it operates in His name and under His authority.

That missionary just led everyone in the worship and adulation of a very false priesthood.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 3:55 pm**

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:40 pm
Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil
I don’t think it’s even remotely ok to compare the works of man to the atonement of Christ. Period. Especially not as an addition.

I see what you mean, but that’s not what this young woman’s wording implied IMO...

How can you “extend” an infinite sacrifice?

Jesus does tell us to look after the sick and needy. Luke was supposed to be a doctor... if I find someone hit by a bus, I will pray etc but I will try and help them as I am physically capable. Jesus has control over matter, hence loaves and fishes etc, but it is also wrong to neglect someone.

I just feel a lot of today's medicine to be a satanic reversal of what it should be. Especially when they start denying medical care to certain groups. Globalists have also abused our love for the elderly and vulnerable

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 4:04 pm**

Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil

Not everything in the telestial world is evil. There is some good, but it's okay to recognize even some good things as telestial. Healing through science and western medicine is a blessing within a telestial sphere, but when we put our trust in it or conflate it with the mighty miracles of God, it becomes an idol and it hinders our ability to overcome this fallen world.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 4:08 pm**

Hosh wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 4:04 pm
Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil
Not everything in the telestial world is evil. There is some good, but it's okay to recognize even some good things as telestial. Healing through science and western medicine is a blessing within a telestial sphere, but when we put our trust in it or conflate it with the mighty miracles of God, it becomes an idol and it hinders our ability to overcome this fallen world.

The Real Cure

It is through Christ’s atonement that healing was made possible.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 4:08 pm**

Hosh wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 4:04 pm
Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil
Not everything in the telestial world is evil. There is some good, but it's okay to recognize even some good things as telestial. Healing through science and western medicine is a blessing within a telestial sphere, but when we put our trust in it or conflate it with the mighty miracles of God, it becomes an idol and it hinders our ability to overcome this fallen world.

I agree.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 4:14 pm**

False doctrine over the pulpit or in a lesson is commonplace. I had a disagreement with a member of the bishopric in sunday school today. He was quite clearly declaring something that was not true, so I put him right. He didn't like it.
There was a visiting high councilman in the lesson and I had hoped he would correct the false doctrine... but he was too busy playing on his phone.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 4:19 pm**

Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:55 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:40 pm
Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil
I don’t think it’s even remotely ok to compare the works of man to the atonement of Christ. Period. Especially not as an addition.

I see what you mean, but that’s not what this young woman’s wording implied IMO...

How can you “extend” an infinite sacrifice?
Jesus does tell us to look after the sick and needy. Luke was supposed to be a doctor... if I find someone hit by a bus, I will pray etc but I will try and help them as I am physically capable. Jesus has control over matter, hence loaves and fishes etc, but it is also wrong to neglect someone.

I just feel a lot of today's medicine to be a satanic reversal of what it should be. Especially when they start denying medical care to certain groups. Globalists have also abused our love for the elderly and vulnerable

Binding up wounds and otherwise assisting the wounded and sick is ministering. It is the Lord’s work.

The medical profession is a tightly controlled sect, trained and funded by the god of this world.

I assume this missionary’s comments are relevant to the major issue of our times - - vaccination and treatment by the recognized medical orthodoxy, which has proven to be at odds with God’s commandments.

Any time you have to pay Caesar’s gold to obtain services, you can be sure they are Caesar’s services.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 4:27 pm**

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:40 pm
Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil
I don’t think it’s even remotely ok to compare the works of man to the atonement of Christ. Period. Especially not as an addition.

I see what you mean, but that’s not what this young woman’s wording implied IMO...

How can you “extend” an infinite sacrifice?

In the Book of Mormon we’re taught that, “all things which are good cometh of Christ; otherwise men were fallen, and there could no good thing come unto them.” (Moroni 7:24) Are you suggesting the many beneficial medicines that have helped millions to heal the body, relieve suffering and prevent sickness are not to be numbered among the good that cometh of Christ? And please understand that in asking this question I acknowledge that not all so-called pharmaceuticals are beneficial and wholesome. Have you ever been helped by taking medicines when you were sick or not feeling well, and will you deny that the help you received from those medicines is a good thing?

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 4:34 pm**

teddyaware wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 4:27 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:40 pm
Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil
I don’t think it’s even remotely ok to compare the works of man to the atonement of Christ. Period. Especially not as an addition.

I see what you mean, but that’s not what this young woman’s wording implied IMO...

How can you “extend” an infinite sacrifice?
In the Book of Mormon we’re taught that, “all things which are good cometh of Christ; otherwise men were fallen, and there could no good thing come unto them.” (Moroni 7:24) Are you suggesting the many beneficial medicines that have helped millions to heal the body, relieve suffering and prevent sickness are not to be numbered among the good that cometh of Christ? And please understand that in asking this question I acknowledge that not all so-called pharmaceuticals are beneficial and wholesome. Have you ever been helped by taking medicines when you were sick or not feeling well, and will you deny that the help you received from those medicines is a good thing?

That's not what the young woman said, is it? She stated that medical professions (the people, not the actual healing) are an extension of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

I'm usually picky about my wording, and I realize that many people (especially my age) aren't that way, so I don't believe she meant it in that way. But that statement at face value is false.

I would be ok with saying that, when authorized, men CAN extend the healing power of Christ in His name.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 4:39 pm**

Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil

The way I see it, all healing is possible through Christ and his atoning sacrifice. All true healing professions with pure intentions, receive power through His sacrifice.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 4:42 pm**

Mormon Pioneer legend - “Elvira the Nurse”:

Notice the intertwining of Priesthood and physical ministration (nursing) coupled with the absence of the seeking for worldly wealth.

Elvira was a natural nurse, and was called in on all kinds of sickness. She seemed able to instinctively diagnose a disease and apply a remedy. Often she relied on inspiration to aid her in caring for the sick. In Manti the Bishop set her apart as a midwife, promising great blessings in regard to the work. She clung to those promises from the Priesthood, striving always to live righteously and do her part toward their fulfillment, which were verified in many instances. She knew the value of herbs, probably handed down to her from her ancestors. Her keen mind was open to new information and she remembered and used the new remedies. She went among the sick with little or no compensation and was never known to refuse a call, even to suffering Indians.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 4:43 pm**

teddyaware wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 4:27 pm
Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:40 pm
Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil
I don’t think it’s even remotely ok to compare the works of man to the atonement of Christ. Period. Especially not as an addition.

I see what you mean, but that’s not what this young woman’s wording implied IMO...

How can you “extend” an infinite sacrifice?
In the Book of Mormon we’re taught that, “all things which are good cometh of Christ; otherwise men were fallen, and there could no good thing come unto them.” (Moroni 7:24) Are you suggesting the many beneficial medicines that have helped millions to heal the body, relieve suffering and prevent sickness are not to be numbered among the good that cometh of Christ? And please understand that in asking this question I acknowledge that not all so-called pharmaceuticals are beneficial and wholesome. Have you ever been helped by taking medicines when you were sick or not feeling well, and will you deny that the help you received from those medicines is a good thing?

"Good" is relative. There are many degrees of Good I like viewing what is good in terms of Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial. What is considered good in one level of progression or ascension may not be considered "good" in another. But all good things do come from Christ and something that is good in a lesser sphere can help individuals in a lesser sphere progress to things that are better.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 5:03 pm**

It was said that there were no orthodox medical practitioners in Nauvoo while the Prophet was alive. A Missouri minister once visited and “made the observation that he could find no trace whatsoever of any medical doctors in Nauvoo, as ‘the Mormon leader wouldn’t allow them there.’” (Joseph Smith and Herbal Medicine, Bonneville Books, 2009, pg 37)

The Prophet was known to set apart individuals to minister to the sick. Ann Carling, who became known as the “herb doctor” later on in Utah, was told by Joseph Smith in her setting apart that she would be successful in caring for the sick if she would use herbs exclusively for her work.

Vienna Jacques and Patty Sessions were also set apart as “nurse{es} in Israel. Dr Calvin Crane Pendleton was set apart in Nauvoo to care for the sick “receiving but little income from his medical services...{but} earned a livelihood in his shop as a mechanic, and by his pen.”

Swiss convert Nette Anna Furrer, who emigrated to Utah and who was a nurse, physician and surgeon, was told by Brigham Young that her mission was to care for the sick and needy without payment and that “great would be her blessing (Our Pioneer Heritage 6:398).

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 6:29 pm**

Members get to make up the religion as it goes along just like every leader has.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 7:57 pm**

False doctrine. . .false stories. . .it never ends. . .

My friend, years ago, went to be a missionary at the Willie-Martin site. she sent me a great letter some time into the mission where she stated that the men who took all of those people across the sweetwater river in winter did NOT die that night around the campfire. I was so sad. . .somtimes I just hate a good kick of reality. The young men made it to SLC and one of them lived to be 94. I asked her to stop ruining all my happy fuzzy stories with the truth. She laughed.

The story with the men dying that night was told in conference by Pres Hinckley. It was printed in the children friend. I'm still laughing.

BRM wrote a book that the church no longer publishes because of all the false doctrine in it. Oh yeah, that's ok because it doesn't have the true name of the church. It's called Mormon Doctrine instead of COJCLDS doctrine. BRM is still quoted in lesson manuals seminary and all. Whatever.

Sheri Dew wanted a book about RMN. He told a story completely different than what the family involved in the story remembered. So the family asked RMN to correct the story. Instead, he and Miss Dew decided to just leave that story out of the book. We are a careless church. . . false doctrine for years. . .

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 8:03 pm**

Elder Oaks, for five years, stated in almost every conference talk and Era publishing that miracles do not convert. He had to retract it but instead just decided to teach the true doctrine in a conference. I think he also taught the true doctrine in an Era, but can't remember.

When he was really promoting that idea, I would get in trouble in SS class and RS. When they were done presenting all of his lovely thoughts, I would raise my hand and say, "Christ never wastes time on anything that does not convert, or maybe I'm wrong, but it seems a little inefficient for Christ to do so many miracles if they had no success in converting people." I always got silence. and the dirty look Bwahahahahaha

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 8:04 pm**

I am kind of tired of covid being compared to a plague. I don't consider anything with a 99.8% survival rate to be a plague.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 8:27 pm**

EvanLM wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 7:57 pm False doctrine. . .false stories. . .it never ends. . .

My friend, years ago, went to be a missionary at the Willie-Martin site. she sent me a great letter some time into the mission where she stated that the men who took all of those people across the sweetwater river in winter did NOT die that night around the campfire. I was so sad. . .somtimes I just hate a good kick of reality. The young men made it to SLC and one of them lived to be 94. I asked her to stop ruining all my happy fuzzy stories with the truth. She laughed.

The story with the men dying that night was told in conference by Pres Hinckley. It was printed in the children friend. I'm still laughing.

BRM wrote a book that the church no longer publishes because of all the false doctrine in it. Oh yeah, that's ok because it doesn't have the true name of the church. It's called Mormon Doctrine instead of COJCLDS doctrine. BRM is still quoted in lesson manuals seminary and all. Whatever.

Sheri Dew wanted a book about RMN. He told a story completely different than what the family involved in the story remembered. So the family asked RMN to correct the story. Instead, he and Miss Dew decided to just leave that story out of the book. We are a careless church. . . false doctrine for years. . .

Sad really

I have had many unique and positive experiences as a member of this church.

Never saw any need to embellish or lie about them

While storytellers may need to condense or combine similar events, there is no reason to falsify history.

Unless one is trying to hide something

Truth will out as they say.

And then what?

Disgrace.

Just tell the truth as you know it.

Then even if you are wrong or make a mistake.

You aren't a liar.

Sir H

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 10:35 pm**

I think that the Lord reveals knowledge to many people to do good things for His children. And I think that many advancements in medicine in the medical field came from God. Does this mean that everything came from God in the medical field? Certainly not. Covid vaccines and many other vaccines are population control schemes, and have been shown to make people ill and worse. I am sure there are some other things that aren't blessings from God but are practiced by doctors. I can see how someone would think of doctors and modern medicine as coming from God. And in a sense that's true, but in a broad sense sadly it is not even though there are many doctors with the purest of intents.

Do we preach false doctrine? Sure when we say to follow the prophet no matter what, that's false doctrine. Whenever we imply the infallibility of our leaders, that's false doctrine. Whenever we worship the prophet (which many unwittingly do) instead of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ that's idolatry.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 10:48 pm**

Niemand wrote: ↑November 21st, 2021, 3:38 pm I have mixed feelings about this. Is this horrible technocratic pharmaceutical nightmare godly? No.

However, is caring for the sick with care and patience not a good thing? The Adversary has essentially perverted something which should be good into something evil

Before sacrament meeting started today, I was talking to an elderly sister that told me that the doctor just diagnosed her with fibromyalgia and that she was now up to 12 prescriptions. All I could think about was how this sister was a goldmine for the pharmaceutical industry.

The word of the Lord is:

D&C 42:43 And whosoever among you are sick, and have not faith to be healed, but believe, shall be nourished with all tenderness, with herbs and mild food, and that not by the hand of an enemy.

Herbs and mild food are direct creations of Father. Pharmaceutical pills are a creation of man. And now we are back to agency, pick your medicine.

Posted: **November 21st, 2021, 11:20 pm**

I went through the Mesa Arizona temple open house, yesterday, November 20, 2021, and as I walked by a painting on the wall the Holy Ghost said, that’s false doctrine”. I looked at it again and sure enough, I had to agree. It was a painting of Lazarus coming forth from the grave with his head unwrapped. It was quite strange looking considering the events in the scriptures.

John 11:
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

I know this is a small thing, but, as we have seen, paintings can grow generations of false beliefs.

How are we ever going to purify our doctrine, let alone purify ourselves?

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