Marijuana is not against the WOW

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abijah`
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by abijah` »

BeNotDeceived wrote: December 5th, 2021, 2:26 pmHave you tried magic truffles?
¿truffles?

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by BeNotDeceived »

abijah` wrote: December 5th, 2021, 2:28 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: December 5th, 2021, 2:26 pmHave you tried magic truffles?
¿truffles?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8vaRVwF0xA

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~ternal-tummim
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by ~ternal-tummim »

abijah` wrote: December 1st, 2021, 1:52 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:42 am Re: Marijuana is not against the Word of WISDOM?

Yes it is. Yes it is against all wisdom and holiness.
..based on what metric, though? 🤔

🤔 I'm interested in how you distinguish one pharmakeia vs another, in respect to its "holiness"
Just by results.

Image

Scromiting. Screaming and vomiting simultaneously. This is what endemic marijuana use may get you.

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mari ... cromiting/

https://theemeraldmagazine.com/scromiti ... s-the-u-s/

Doesn't seem holy to me.

Hard pass.

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MikeMaillet
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by MikeMaillet »

~ternal-tummim wrote: December 16th, 2021, 10:00 am
abijah` wrote: December 1st, 2021, 1:52 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:42 am Re: Marijuana is not against the Word of WISDOM?

Yes it is. Yes it is against all wisdom and holiness.
..based on what metric, though? 🤔

🤔 I'm interested in how you distinguish one pharmakeia vs another, in respect to its "holiness"
Just by results.

Image

Scromiting. Screaming and vomiting simultaneously. This is what endemic marijuana use may get you.

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mari ... cromiting/

https://theemeraldmagazine.com/scromiti ... s-the-u-s/

Doesn't seem holy to me.

Hard pass.
I know a lot of pot heads who know a lot of pot heads and this has never happened to anyone they or I know although I've had similar reactions after consuming some of the delicacies at church pot-luck socials. Just sayin'.

Your avatar suggests that fear of projectile vomiting is not the reason you abstain from the plant :-)

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario

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~ternal-tummim
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by ~ternal-tummim »

MikeMaillet wrote: December 16th, 2021, 11:13 am
~ternal-tummim wrote: December 16th, 2021, 10:00 am
abijah` wrote: December 1st, 2021, 1:52 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:42 am Re: Marijuana is not against the Word of WISDOM?

Yes it is. Yes it is against all wisdom and holiness.
..based on what metric, though? 🤔

🤔 I'm interested in how you distinguish one pharmakeia vs another, in respect to its "holiness"
Just by results.

Image

Scromiting. Screaming and vomiting simultaneously. This is what endemic marijuana use may get you.

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mari ... cromiting/

https://theemeraldmagazine.com/scromiti ... s-the-u-s/

Doesn't seem holy to me.

Hard pass.
I know a lot of pot heads who know a lot of pot heads and this has never happened to anyone they or I know although I've had similar reactions after consuming some of the delicacies at church pot-luck socials. Just sayin'.

Your avatar suggests that fear of projectile vomiting is not the reason you abstain from the plant :-)

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario
I don’t really have fear of anything. Not a motivating factor.

I own myself, I rule myself, and I am not going to turn over my perceptive and cognitive functions over to a drug. Any drug. And marijuana is one of the worst of them. It completely destroys its victims’ lives, sapping them of all motivation and making them stupider.

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MikeMaillet
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by MikeMaillet »

~ternal-tummim wrote: December 16th, 2021, 11:19 am
MikeMaillet wrote: December 16th, 2021, 11:13 am
~ternal-tummim wrote: December 16th, 2021, 10:00 am
abijah` wrote: December 1st, 2021, 1:52 pm ..based on what metric, though? 🤔

🤔 I'm interested in how you distinguish one pharmakeia vs another, in respect to its "holiness"
Just by results.

Image

Scromiting. Screaming and vomiting simultaneously. This is what endemic marijuana use may get you.

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mari ... cromiting/

https://theemeraldmagazine.com/scromiti ... s-the-u-s/

Doesn't seem holy to me.

Hard pass.
I know a lot of pot heads who know a lot of pot heads and this has never happened to anyone they or I know although I've had similar reactions after consuming some of the delicacies at church pot-luck socials. Just sayin'.

Your avatar suggests that fear of projectile vomiting is not the reason you abstain from the plant :-)

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario
I don’t really have fear of anything. Not a motivating factor.

I own myself, I rule myself, and I am not going to turn over my perceptive and cognitive functions over to a drug. Any drug. And marijuana is one of the worst of them. It completely destroys its victims’ lives, sapping them of all motivation and making them stupider.
Fair enough. The odd thing is that I used to feel exactly the same way you do at the moment.

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario

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~ternal-tummim
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by ~ternal-tummim »

MikeMaillet wrote: December 16th, 2021, 11:28 am
~ternal-tummim wrote: December 16th, 2021, 11:19 amIt completely destroys its victims’ lives, sapping them of all motivation and making them stupider.
Fair enough. The odd thing is that I used to feel exactly the same way you do at the moment.
Not to go too far off on a limb, but would I be right to venture a guess that since then you have taken up the weed and that has... altered your opinion?

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MikeMaillet
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by MikeMaillet »

~ternal-tummim wrote: December 16th, 2021, 11:32 am
MikeMaillet wrote: December 16th, 2021, 11:28 am
~ternal-tummim wrote: December 16th, 2021, 11:19 amIt completely destroys its victims’ lives, sapping them of all motivation and making them stupider.
Fair enough. The odd thing is that I used to feel exactly the same way you do at the moment.
Not to go too far off on a limb, but would I be right to venture a guess that since then you have taken up the weed and that has... altered your opinion?
Yes, that's true. I started using it about 15 years ago after I became very depressed. I had read a lot of drug books because I was raising teenagers and knew absolutely nothing about drugs. I would have to say that about half of my initial experiences with cannabis were not pleasant but I was able to become very objective when under the influence and my feelings of guilt for whatever I was thinking that was wrong were very much amplified. This was unpleasant and it was what I needed the most. The other half of my experiences were pleasant and they allowed me brief moments of deep introspection where I was able to feel happy and grateful for my many blessings. I'm 64 years old and work shifts. I'll be working 5pm-5am tomorrow, Saturday and Sunday and if it wasn't for cannabis I would not be able to sleep or function. I've tried sleeping without it but my sleep is restless and I fear falling asleep at the wheel on my 30 minute ride home at 5am.

I've never promoted the use of cannabis and I have seen many that abuse it. Cannabis allows me to focus and I'm almost always drawn to the scriptures after using it. That about sums it up for me.

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario

abijah`
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by abijah` »

~ternal-tummim wrote: December 16th, 2021, 10:00 am Just by results.

Image

Scromiting. Screaming and vomiting simultaneously. This is what endemic marijuana use may get you.

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mari ... cromiting/

https://theemeraldmagazine.com/scromiti ... s-the-u-s/

Doesn't seem holy to me.

Hard pass.
That's the best part though! Nothing more fun than a good scromit fight after a smoke with the boys.

JohnnyL
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by JohnnyL »

~ternal-tummim wrote: December 16th, 2021, 10:00 am
abijah` wrote: December 1st, 2021, 1:52 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:42 am Re: Marijuana is not against the Word of WISDOM?

Yes it is. Yes it is against all wisdom and holiness.
..based on what metric, though? 🤔

🤔 I'm interested in how you distinguish one pharmakeia vs another, in respect to its "holiness"
Just by results.

Image

Scromiting. Screaming and vomiting simultaneously. This is what endemic marijuana use may get you.

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/mari ... cromiting/

https://theemeraldmagazine.com/scromiti ... s-the-u-s/

Doesn't seem holy to me.

Hard pass.
Does that woman have four stomachs and a 1hp sump pump in her??

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Niemand
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Niemand »

Good discussion about vaping here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=52386

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Niemand
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Niemand »

A brief rundown of what is and isn't against the WoW as far as I can tell.

Tongue firmly in cheek! 😉

Against WoW
Heroin
Cocaine
Cannabis (when vaped or eaten, but not when smoked)
Vaping (except cannabis, and including nicotine free products)
Coffee cake (probably)
Tiramasu
LSD (if not prescribed)
Green tea
Decaf tea
Decaf coffee
Nicotine gum
Ice tea
Food offered to idols or blessed by pagans (maybe)

Unclear
CBD oil
"Legal highs"
Herbal cigarettes (with no tobacco)
Candy cigarettes
Middle Earth pipe-weed (must not be smoked, probably not vaped, maybe chewed?)
Biting your nails
Teacake (contains no tea, but the name...)

Not against WoW
Vaping (when using cannabis)
Marijuana, skunk, cannabis, hash, weed (when vaped, chewed or injected, not smoked, must be prescribed)
Morphine
Barbiturates (when prescribed)
Viagra
Abortion derived mRNA shots for Covid ("A literal godsend" - Pres. Nelson)
Red Bull, energy drinks with Taurine
Monkey gland extracts
Mate
Adrenochrome
Alcohol free beer, wine etc
Betel nut (description here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-31921207 )
Tobacco (if eaten, according to the original WoW)
Steroids and performance enhancing drugs
Testosterone and oestrogen injections
Herbal tea, hot chocolate
Guarana
Eating human flesh (where person has died of natural causes and not in violation of local laws); human placenta or umbilical cord (not just by babies); drinking human blood (with consent)
Drinking animal blood
Khat (where legal)
Methadone
Human produced dairy products (not just for babies)
Inhaling incense smoke at a Catholic or Orthodox church
Drinking bleach
Kava kava

The general impression is that if you're Elvis, JFK or Michael Jackson and have a tame doctor, you can take what want, as long he approves. If you buy it off the streets, hell mend you.
Last edited by Niemand on March 18th, 2022, 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

CuriousThinker
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by CuriousThinker »

👆👆👆 🤣🤣🤣 I bite my nails. That cracked me up.

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Niemand
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Niemand »

CuriousThinker wrote: March 18th, 2022, 9:19 am 👆👆👆 🤣🤣🤣 I bite my nails. That cracked me up.
That was a very tongue in cheek list. (I'll probably get sent to a shrink for suggesting some of those.) I think if nail biting was against the WoW, there would be much reduced attendance.

Without wishing to be too PC, it is obvious that there are some major drugs like betel nut (west Pacific), kava (Pacific islands), mate (South America), khat (Middle East and Muslim Africa), which completely escape the notice of the WoW. These are all popular in these places, but probably unheard of in Utah. Except maybe Guarana which has popped up in sodas/soft drinks elsewhere.

Betel nut appears to cause some serious health problems. Like rotting your jaw off. Saw some scary pictures of it.

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darknesstolight
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by darknesstolight »

BeNotDeceived wrote: November 21st, 2021, 6:23 am Weird, :lol:

Vaping is classed as bad because it contains Nicotine, but no Tobacco.

Coffee is classed as bad, not because it contains caffeine, but rather because it’s coffee.

Hyrum said Coffee and Tea, when asked for examples of “hot drinks”. The FDA has warned about drinking anything that is to hot.

It’s pretty obvious that hot means of high temperature, and later idiots completely blew it.
The caffeine pushers have me right where they want me.

Just saying...would have been wise to avoid it maybe.

...

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Jamescm
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Jamescm »

Niemand wrote: March 18th, 2022, 10:02 am
CuriousThinker wrote: March 18th, 2022, 9:19 am 👆👆👆 🤣🤣🤣 I bite my nails. That cracked me up.
That was a very tongue in cheek list. (I'll probably get sent to a shrink for suggesting some of those.) I think if nail biting was against the WoW, there would be much reduced attendance.

Without wishing to be too PC, it is obvious that there are some major drugs like betel nut (west Pacific), kava (Pacific islands), mate (South America), khat (Middle East and Muslim Africa), which completely escape the notice of the WoW. These are all popular in these places, but probably unheard of in Utah. Except maybe Guarana which has popped up in sodas/soft drinks elsewhere.

Betel nut appears to cause some serious health problems. Like rotting your jaw off. Saw some scary pictures of it.
This is why I don't simply hold the Word of Wisdom to be exclusively some list as it is in the Doctrine and Covenants. Ecclesiastically, sure. No "hot drinks", being defined specifically as tea and coffee. No alcohol. No tobacco. If I were a bishop, that is the standard I would hold.

For myself? Why dance along the line? My body is a temple. No tea or coffee, whatever the form or temperature. No alcohol, save for cooked extracts. No caffeine, save for something with less than trace amounts, such as cocoa. No taurine. No marijuana or anything else that alters my brain chemistry. I don't want the temple or mental clarity of a normal person, I want the best I can figure out.

Serragon
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Serragon »

I think it very enlightening that the church defines it a violation only when you don't have someone from the credentialed class authorizing it.

If you decide to use the substance on your own to relieve pain, it is a sin. But if you can get one of the credentialed folks to tell you to do it, it is no longer sinful.

This pattern appears to exist within our church everywhere we look.

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Niemand
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Niemand »

Jamescm wrote: March 25th, 2022, 3:51 pm
Niemand wrote: March 18th, 2022, 10:02 am
CuriousThinker wrote: March 18th, 2022, 9:19 am 👆👆👆 🤣🤣🤣 I bite my nails. That cracked me up.
That was a very tongue in cheek list. (I'll probably get sent to a shrink for suggesting some of those.) I think if nail biting was against the WoW, there would be much reduced attendance.

Without wishing to be too PC, it is obvious that there are some major drugs like betel nut (west Pacific), kava (Pacific islands), mate (South America), khat (Middle East and Muslim Africa), which completely escape the notice of the WoW. These are all popular in these places, but probably unheard of in Utah. Except maybe Guarana which has popped up in sodas/soft drinks elsewhere.

Betel nut appears to cause some serious health problems. Like rotting your jaw off. Saw some scary pictures of it.
This is why I don't simply hold the Word of Wisdom to be exclusively some list as it is in the Doctrine and Covenants. Ecclesiastically, sure. No "hot drinks", being defined specifically as tea and coffee. No alcohol. No tobacco. If I were a bishop, that is the standard I would hold.

For myself? Why dance along the line? My body is a temple. No tea or coffee, whatever the form or temperature. No alcohol, save for cooked extracts. No caffeine, save for something with less than trace amounts, such as cocoa. No taurine. No marijuana or anything else that alters my brain chemistry. I don't want the temple or mental clarity of a normal person, I want the best I can figure out.
I think we all have idiosyncratic interpretations. I drink alcohol free beer, but don't do decaff coffee. Some people would do it the other way round.

Likewise, I avoid taurine but drink caffeinated soda/soft drinks. Maybe I should, maybe I shouldn't.

I'm not a big fan of cannabis, but I gather it works for many people's arthritis and rheumatoid pains, which I'm sympathetic towards. Given the horrible side effects of some medications, maybe it isn't the worst thing in that isntance.

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Niemand
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Niemand »

Serragon wrote: March 25th, 2022, 4:27 pm I think it very enlightening that the church defines it a violation only when you don't have someone from the credentialed class authorizing it.

If you decide to use the substance on your own to relieve pain, it is a sin. But if you can get one of the credentialed folks to tell you to do it, it is no longer sinful.

This pattern appears to exist within our church everywhere we look.
What can I say? The church is often a giant version of the Milgram experiment, and that was painfully apparent in 2020. Cruelty is acceptable if a man in a uniform tells you to. Only obeying orders and all that.

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Thinker
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Thinker »

Not against the word of wisdom:

Skydiving without a parachute
Doing a death drop flip off bars
Taking prescribed valume whenever stressed
Numbing oneself with antidepressants
Riding a motorcycle without a helmet
Eating 3x portion size fast food everyday
Eating sugary foods in excess daily
…what else? 😁

Fun fact: 🌱
“When Popeye was created in 1929 by the American cartoonist Elzie Segar (1894-1938), spinach was slang for cannabis.”

Fun guess:
Popeye producers had stock in spinach, & wanted to keep marijuana for the elite.

Image

PS. I just realized you made your own list above! 😂

Down_the_rabbithole
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Down_the_rabbithole »

Kind of interesting...

History of the Word of Wisdom
-- Mar 17, 1884
Future apostle James E. Talmage, at Johns Hopkins University, writes in his journal: "Mar 17. I have been engaged some time in the study of the effects of Narcotics upon the system, i.e. studying the same theoretically only. Today I found a gentleman who works in the same Laboratory as I, and who has for 2 years been addicted to the habit of eating Haschich or extract of Cannabis Indica. He was very willing to give me any data from his own experience; and gave me such." Five days later he includes himself as a subject by taking "Cannabis Indica" himself.
-- Mar 22, 1884
James E. Talmage begins using hashish at Johns Hopkins University as "my physiological experiment" of its effects. He takes three doses of five grains each every hour "solid extract Cannabis Indica". By Apr 6 he is using twenty grains, "and the effect was felt in a not very agreeable way." Nevertheless, he intends to "vary the trial in the future." This is last reference in Talmadge's diary to using narcotics. Four months later he becomes member of stake high council.

[Word of Wisdom] "This being Saturday, was the day I selected to study practically the effects of Hashish. This evening, after work and all was over, I took at 3 doses each hour after the preceding, 5 grains solid extract Cannabis Indica. At this writing midnight hours since last does, I have experienced no effect whatever. The effect is said to be widely different in different people." (The Essential JamesE. Talmage, James P. Harris editor, Classics in Mormon Thought Series No. 5, Signature Books, Inc., 1997 pp. 11).

-- Mar 23, 1884
The day after he took 3 "doses" 5 grains each of Hashish (Cannibas Indica) James E. Talmage writes in his journal: "Sunday. Spent quietly. Have had no result to be noted of my physiological experiment yesterday. I do not feel inclined to try again till the end of next week-as the realization of the effects of the drug are not desirable on working days." (1)

mtmom
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by mtmom »

~ternal-tummim wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:42 am Re: Marijuana is not against the Word of WISDOM?

Yes it is. Yes it is against all wisdom and holiness.

O! How the people perish for want of shepherds!
Marijuana is also very good for those with uncontrolled seizures. There has been a number of documentation on children who have Rxs for medical marijuana. Most have to bring it back from Colorado. And yes, many of these are from good LDS families. Sometimes you do what you can do. If the shoe fits, wear it.

blitzinstripes
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by blitzinstripes »

Niemand wrote: March 18th, 2022, 10:02 am
CuriousThinker wrote: March 18th, 2022, 9:19 am 👆👆👆 🤣🤣🤣 I bite my nails. That cracked me up.
That was a very tongue in cheek list. (I'll probably get sent to a shrink for suggesting some of those.) I think if nail biting was against the WoW, there would be much reduced attendance.

Without wishing to be too PC, it is obvious that there are some major drugs like betel nut (west Pacific), kava (Pacific islands), mate (South America), khat (Middle East and Muslim Africa), which completely escape the notice of the WoW. These are all popular in these places, but probably unheard of in Utah. Except maybe Guarana which has popped up in sodas/soft drinks elsewhere.

Betel nut appears to cause some serious health problems. Like rotting your jaw off. Saw some scary pictures of it.
Disappointed that Ayahuasca didn't make the list?

blitzinstripes
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by blitzinstripes »

I hear that Starbucks is doing a booming business along the Wasatch front. Add a little milk and some pumpkin spice to your coffee, and suddenly it's not coffee anymore. 😉

NowWhat
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by NowWhat »

Why is everything based on approval of a licensed medical practitioner? Aren't they the ones who were pushing the jab? And I'm going to let him or her tell me what's good or bad for me, what I can or should have or not? We are now against naturopaths, alternative medical practitioners, etc., according to the Handbook (the new scriptures), even though JS discussed herbs and mild foods. I like a doctor for a broken leg, but not much else.

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