Marijuana is not against the WOW

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MikeMaillet
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by MikeMaillet »

abijah` wrote: November 28th, 2021, 12:13 pm
  • 1 Enoch 7-8
    And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants...
    And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, 'Armaros the resolving of enchantments, Baraqijal (taught) astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .
Image

Like it or not, if you went back in time to either New Testament era, or more-ancient OT Israel with a substance like cannabis, ^this is the scriptural and theological category they would place it in.

They would place in it the same category as botany/medicines/herblore in general, as well as under the broader umbrella of Techne largely speaking, which includes everything from music & the arts, to metallurgy & craftsmanship, to perfumery & makeup.

Applied knowledge (or what it produces) that -- in of itself -- is not wicked or righteous, but rather, that depending on how you use it.

Christians who look upon the use of cannabis as something inherently, and of itself sinful or unwholesome - it seems its along the basis that cannabis produces a psychoactive effect.

Well, just because something is psychoactive doesn't convince me that its inherently sinful. I know its not a very TBM take, but before Section 89, there is never, in any scripture I'm aware of, banning the use of psychoactive substances, such as wine for example. Wine is never banned, and its psychoactive effect is directly referenced, and even attributed as the reason for God creating it:
  • Psalm 104
    You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man’s heart.
  • John 2
    Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.
So just on the basis that something has a psychoactive effect doesn't persuade me its inherently wrong.

Now, marijuana is seriously misused by most users I agree. Largely it has a negative effect, just like users of alcohol and many other things etc.

All I know is that for me personally it has its use and virtues when contained in both its proper season and context, yet becomes a snare for me if I stray from that.
Thanks so much for your words of wisdom. I always appreciate how you make me think.

Mike

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nightlight
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by nightlight »

It's getting harder and harder for me to take LDS serious.

"Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

abijah`
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by abijah` »

abijah` wrote: November 21st, 2021, 8:32 am Zion will have her version (the good wine at the end of the feast), angels revealing New`Creation botanies and technologies, and I bet they'll be lit.
abijah` wrote: November 25th, 2021, 5:24 pm just watch, fresh-endowed Zion's medicines and pharmakeia will blow this worlds' medicines and pharmakeia out of the water, and then it will be much more obvious to you the vast gulf of difference between the techne "of the flesh" versus the techne of indwelt-Zion.
🤔 I have been wondering about the ^above idea more and more lately..

Ultimately, the restoration of Zion, and the actualisation of the NewCovenant/NewCreation, = a return to the garden, or perhaps even more accurately, being ushered in to a fresh, new-created Eden, a yet-new one patterned after the the one before.

All things will be created new, free of all taint and corruption.

That means, that the New Creation will have its own plants, its own drugs, its own wine, etc etc.

Imagine what the New-Creation cannabis of Zion is, compared with the cannabis of this world..? 🤔 All things will be patterned after the old one I presume, meaning cannabis will have its own, new`covenant, new-creation counterpart, it would seem to me.

Just saying. I think the New Creation begins to shine and actually start pre-2nd Coming, so I legit think we are going to see some Zion-pharmakeia versus Babylon-pharmakeia type of stuff before the end. I think the Lord's "wonders" in Egypt (via Moses & Aaron) are a type for this in the endtime, apocalyptic context.

And of course I don't think it will only be plants/drugs/medicines, but all the other arts and technologies, including stuff like Fashion, and Craftsmanship, and Music, and Architecture, and Drama/the Arts, Ornamentation/Perfumery, Metallurgy/Engineering, etc &c., etc.

The stuff we're gonna get in the endtimes is going to be the better, and objectively true versions of modern-day Egypts' counterfeits. Just like Moses vs former-day Egypt's enchanters.
  • Joel 3
    And in that day [New Covenant Gathering of Israel - Endtimes] the mountains shall drip sweet wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the streambeds of Judah shall flow with water; and a fountain shall come forth from the house of the LORD and water the Valley of Shittim.
  • Genesis 49
    His [DS] eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.
abijah` wrote: November 19th, 2021, 10:34 am I've heard tell that Lucifer used to be the heavenly choirmaster. Does that indicate a job opening? 🤔
  • 1 Chronicles 15
    David also commanded the chiefs of the Levites to appoint their brothers as the singers who should play loudly on musical instruments, on harps and lyres and cymbals, to raise sounds of joy.
I've also heard tell that Lady`Lotan can play a mean tune.. ♫ 🤫
  • Psalm 104
    Here is the sea, great and wide, which teems with creatures... There go the ships, and Leviathan, which you formed to play in it.
Maybe the whole "my snek can beat up ur snek" thing between Moses vs Pharaoh's enchanters includes certain other connotations..? 🤔
Image

maybe the Davidic servant and Lady`Zions' choirs will play better music than the super`AI overlord can come up with, lol get rekt

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Wondering Wendy
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

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10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

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TheDuke
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by TheDuke »

I don't and never have used pot, but I will say that where I live it is legal. And at my last temple recommend interview last year it seems they just asked if I used coffee, tea, alcohol or illegal drugs. It is none of the above here. No need for a Dr at all. Given the handbook is guidance and not even something recommended for lay members to consult, and the question isn't asked. Seems ok to pass the interview by keeping silent all together.

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TheDuke
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

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I do use some full spectrum CBD oil. Would that be like drinking decaf? or Iced herbal tea?

abijah`
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by abijah` »

TheDuke wrote: November 28th, 2021, 3:07 pm I do use some full spectrum CBD oil. Would that be like drinking decaf? or Iced herbal tea?
yeah basically. its the various cannabinoids minus the psychoactive ones.

its a curious thing, the abundance of cannabinoid receptors in our neurotransmitter system. weird how its made that way.

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~ternal-tummim
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by ~ternal-tummim »

Re: Marijuana is not against the Word of WISDOM?

Yes it is. Yes it is against all wisdom and holiness.

O! How the people perish for want of shepherds!

JSmith
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by JSmith »

Niemand wrote: November 21st, 2021, 6:24 am
Robin Hood wrote: November 21st, 2021, 6:15 am I was on a plane from Salt Lake City to Newark NJ once and found myself sitting next to a young lady with the surname Tanner. She was related (granddaughter or great-granddaughter) to N. Eldon Tanner, formerly of the First Presidency. She was on her way to take part in American Idol.

It was a 4 or 5 hour flight so we got talking about a number of things. Eventually the word of wisdom came up. She had a question regarding coffee cake. She said some people think it's ok to eat it and some people don't, but what did I think?

I asked her "Is coffee cake a hot drink?"
Pres. McKay once ate some cake (or whatever it was) with some alcohol in it. When he was pulled up on it, he said, "Well the Word of Wisdom says nothing about eating it!"

Everybody has their own version. I stay away from Taurine products like Red Bull for example.
it was rum cake

and rum cake is delicious.

Serragon
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Serragon »

Much like the Law of Tithing, our implementation of WOW has moved away from what the Lord taught to interpretations of men. WOW is even worse, though, since it was never intended to be a commandment with penalties.

If you actually follow WOW as taught in the scriptures by the Lord, you will not be allowed to be baptized into His church.

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Momma J
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Momma J »

My husband uses CBD oil and can legally have marijuana due to his disability; a part of which is extreme anxiety attacks, tremors, and pain. I can attest to the benefits of medicinal use. Without this he would be taking more pain pills and Xanax. I personally would never use marijuana, but my husband gets much relief from his tremors, anxiety, and pain. We pay out of pocket and it is very expensive... but it is much less harmful long term than the numerous drugs which he is prescribed.

Serragon
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Serragon »

It is important to remember that the WOW really was a revelation specifically tailored to the Saints receiving it. We know this because it really only deals with foods and drinks that were available to the saints at that particular time and in their particular situation.

I have no doubt that if a new revelation were called down out of heaven by Pres. Nelson it would be very different than what was received by Joseph Smith simply because what we are dealing with today regarding health is not similar at all to what the receiving saints were dealing with. Prescription drugs, sugar, excess carbs, sedentary lifestyles, electronic device use are all examples of things we would probably hear about in a new revelation that didn't really concern the early saints at all.

So we instead try and understand the principles behind what was revealed and attempt to implement those as best we can. I think our current interpretation does a pretty good job of that, though I still think we should not be using it as a fundamental commandment with which to measure righteousness.

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MikeMaillet
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

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~ternal-tummim wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:42 am Re: Marijuana is not against the Word of WISDOM?

Yes it is. Yes it is against all wisdom and holiness.

O! How the people perish for want of shepherds!
Except for the part that I cannot find any scriptures telling me that.

You are correct about the want of shepherds. The ones we have now have abandoned the flock in favour of running after riches.

The Israelites did not receive any such commandments and they were God's chosen people. We Gentiles were given the WoW and nowhere in there do I see anything regarding plants being evil except for tobacco, if used by man in the latter-days. What I do see is that the vast majority of LDS are unwilling to live by the principles of the WoW as evidenced by our propensity to eat meat even though God recommends that we do not eat meat except in certain circumstances.

What is it that bothers so many people about substances that change the way we feel? Why would so many people be willing to advocate for the use of physical force (the law) to prevent a person from eating the leaves of a plant? I find it strange that in the land of "Freedom" we are okay with homosexuality but if you grow a plant that God created, you are no better than a piece of crap that deserves to be locked up for the rest of your life.

Motes and beams.

Mike Maillet
Ingleside, Ontario

abijah`
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by abijah` »

~ternal-tummim wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:42 am Re: Marijuana is not against the Word of WISDOM?

Yes it is. Yes it is against all wisdom and holiness.
..based on what metric, though? 🤔

🤔 I'm interested in how you distinguish one pharmakeia vs another, in respect to its "holiness" - one growing from the earth, and the other being the product of gadianton corporate titans.

We perceive reality through a materialist, modern lens. Its my own speculation that all these various things have their own proper application, within their own time/season, and in the appropriate context, whatever that may be.

take my word for it, there are many commonly-prescribed pharmaceuticals that are used by many WoW-keeping LDS, that are on a whole nother level of addiction potential, risk-of-harm and deep spiritual-unwholesomeness compared with maryjane. there are certain psychoactives in comminly-prescribed Rx's by LDS, that, through reasonable amount of experience, I am 100% certain have certain satanic chieftain-entities who have some kind of dominion over that specific pharma-produced chemical, an actual personage who's principality was that specific drug. it sounds crackers, but its like, i know what i'd repeatedly experienced (in retrospect), and its like, each of these drugs have their own demon; and where medicinal and therapeutic matters are concerned, forgive me for thinking that natural-borne psychoactives > synthetic psychoactives.

Ask any experienced drug user, there's a deep "psychic"/spiritual difference between a lab-produced drug like Benzos, SSRI's/anti-psych meds, etc versus natural drugs like cannabis, or alcohol etc. There's also a marked difference in tolerance-buildup as well. A synthetic pharmaceutical substance will accrue tolerance much more rapidly than a natural substance, every single time.

For the synthetic - it will be a relatively short amount and rate of time before you need more & more of the drug to achieve the same effect.

But natural drugs like cannabis this amount & rate of tolerance-buildup is significantly more regulated; the body doesn't attack the cannabinoids (for which our systems have a curious abundance of receptors for 🤔) as some kind of foreign substance to be resisted and who's effect is to be mitigated in the same way and rate.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by BeNotDeceived »

~ternal-tummim wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:42 am Re: Marijuana is not against the Word of WISDOM?

Yes it is. Yes it is against all wisdom and holiness.

O! How the people perish for want of shepherds!
Image By what authority do ye speak?

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~ternal-tummim
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Re: Marijuana *is* against the Word of WISDOM

Post by ~ternal-tummim »

BeNotDeceived wrote: December 4th, 2021, 9:11 am
~ternal-tummim wrote: November 30th, 2021, 4:42 am Re: Marijuana is not against the Word of WISDOM?

Yes it is. Yes it is against all wisdom and holiness.

O! How the people perish for want of shepherds!
Image By what authority do ye speak?
By TRUTH but not PHARISITICALISM

By REALITY but not LIES

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~ternal-tummim
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by ~ternal-tummim »

Hmm, does “th” count as a phoneme? Hmm. If not, change that to INTEGRITY.

Or just GOD. I guess that works. Same thing, right? God supports the true and the right.

Those who tell TRUTH,
BUT NOT ALSO
those who do RIGHT.

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Niemand
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Niemand »

~ternal-tummim wrote: December 4th, 2021, 12:23 pm Hmm, does “th” count as a phoneme? Hmm. If not, change that to INTEGRITY.

Or just GOD. I guess that works. Same thing, right? God supports the true and the right.

Those who tell TRUTH,
BUT NOT ALSO
those who do RIGHT.
"Th" is a consonant in its own right like "sh". Used to have its own letter þ - we could do more wiþ þat þan X.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2021, 2:28 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: December 4th, 2021, 12:23 pm Hmm, does “th” count as a phoneme? Hmm. If not, change that to INTEGRITY.

Or just GOD. I guess that works. Same thing, right? God supports the true and the right.

Those who tell TRUTH,
BUT NOT ALSO
those who do RIGHT.
"Th" is a consonant in its own right like "sh". Used to have its own letter þ - we could do more wiþ þat þan X.
There the eighth letter H
is not silent like it is in CHRIST,
who is our greatest exemplar. 8-) wbnb

The H in phoneme too, isn’t really silent as it signals words that begin with P to sound like they begin with F. Silent E and really all silent vowels don’t infringe the one rule of GBNG because initially silent E was thought too common. When I saw how the timing pattern of March 18th skipped silent H, I realized God’s name originally came to us as four consonants, and opted to go only with silent consonants.

The rules are defined in Outer Darkness so search engines won’t spoil the games.

Whale, but not tale. 🐳 gbng

Marijuana, but not cannabis if silent J is your thing. 👻

Deep, but not Profound is a similar game denoted by a matching emoji and/or dbnp.

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~ternal-tummim
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by ~ternal-tummim »

Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2021, 2:28 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: December 4th, 2021, 12:23 pm Hmm, does “th” count as a phoneme? Hmm. If not, change that to INTEGRITY.

Or just GOD. I guess that works. Same thing, right? God supports the true and the right.

Those who tell TRUTH,
BUT NOT ALSO
those who do RIGHT.
"Th" is a consonant in its own right like "sh". Used to have its own letter þ - we could do more wiþ þat þan X.
Dude.

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Niemand
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by Niemand »

~ternal-tummim wrote: December 4th, 2021, 2:58 pm
Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2021, 2:28 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: December 4th, 2021, 12:23 pm Hmm, does “th” count as a phoneme? Hmm. If not, change that to INTEGRITY.

Or just GOD. I guess that works. Same thing, right? God supports the true and the right.

Those who tell TRUTH,
BUT NOT ALSO
those who do RIGHT.
"Th" is a consonant in its own right like "sh". Used to have its own letter þ - we could do more wiþ þat þan X.
Dude.
Not sure what þis has to do wiþ drugs but anyway.

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~ternal-tummim
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by ~ternal-tummim »

Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2021, 3:08 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: December 4th, 2021, 2:58 pm
Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2021, 2:28 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: December 4th, 2021, 12:23 pm Hmm, does “th” count as a phoneme? Hmm. If not, change that to INTEGRITY.

Or just GOD. I guess that works. Same thing, right? God supports the true and the right.

Those who tell TRUTH,
BUT NOT ALSO
those who do RIGHT.
"Th" is a consonant in its own right like "sh". Used to have its own letter þ - we could do more wiþ þat þan X.
Dude.
Not sure what þis has to do wiþ drugs but anyway.
Duh. So maybe you shouldn’t have replied? It was a question for BeNotDeceived. It’s his game; he makes the rules.

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~ternal-tummim
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by ~ternal-tummim »

BeNotDeceived wrote: December 4th, 2021, 2:53 pm
Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2021, 2:28 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: December 4th, 2021, 12:23 pm Hmm, does “th” count as a phoneme? Hmm. If not, change that to INTEGRITY.

Or just GOD. I guess that works. Same thing, right? God supports the true and the right.

Those who tell TRUTH,
BUT NOT ALSO
those who do RIGHT.
"Th" is a consonant in its own right like "sh". Used to have its own letter þ - we could do more wiþ þat þan X.
There the eighth letter H
is not silent like it is in CHRIST,
who is our greatest exemplar. 8-) wbnb

The H in phoneme too, isn’t really silent as it signals words that begin with P to sound like they begin with F. Silent E and really all silent vowels don’t infringe the one rule of GBNG because initially silent E was thought too common. When I saw how the timing pattern of March 18th skipped silent H, I realized God’s name originally came to us as four consonants, and opted to go only with silent consonants.

The rules are defined in Outer Darkness so search engines won’t spoil the games.

Whale, but not tale. 🐳 gbng

Marijuana, but not cannabis if silent J is your thing. 👻

Deep, but not Profound is a similar game denoted by a matching emoji and/or dbnp.
Yes, I had read your rules and understood, but was remembering them backwards, so was playing Goblin but not Ghost. And I messed up in multiple levels since apparently the silent “e” in Pharisee doesn’t count. And apparently doubles as in “but not cannabis“ don’t count as silent either. Ahh well.

BND, you’ve smoked a lot of pot in your life, am I right?

abijah`
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Re: Marijuana Wisdom

Post by abijah` »

~ternal-tummim wrote: December 4th, 2021, 9:58 am By TRUTH but not PHARISITICALISM

By REALITY but not LIES
Romans 14
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer...
14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean
15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat *puff*, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died.
16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil..

Titus 1
To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.

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BeNotDeceived
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Re: Marijuana is not against the WOW

Post by BeNotDeceived »

~ternal-tummim wrote: December 4th, 2021, 3:28 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote: December 4th, 2021, 2:53 pm
Niemand wrote: December 4th, 2021, 2:28 pm
~ternal-tummim wrote: December 4th, 2021, 12:23 pm Hmm, does “th” count as a phoneme? Hmm. If not, change that to INTEGRITY.

Or just GOD. I guess that works. Same thing, right? God supports the true and the right.

Those who tell TRUTH,
BUT NOT ALSO
those who do RIGHT.
"Th" is a consonant in its own right like "sh". Used to have its own letter þ - we could do more wiþ þat þan X.
There the eighth letter H
is not silent like it is in CHRIST,
who is our greatest exemplar. 8-) wbnb

The H in phoneme too, isn’t really silent as it signals words that begin with P to sound like they begin with F. Silent E and really all silent vowels don’t infringe the one rule of GBNG because initially silent E was thought too common. When I saw how the timing pattern of March 18th skipped silent H, I realized God’s name originally came to us as four consonants, and opted to go only with silent consonants.

The rules are defined in Outer Darkness so search engines won’t spoil the games.

Whale, but not tale. 🐳 gbng

Marijuana, but not cannabis if silent J is your thing. 👻

Deep, but not Profound is a similar game denoted by a matching emoji and/or dbnp.
Yes, I had read your rules and understood, but was remembering them backwards, so was playing Goblin but not Ghost. And I messed up in multiple levels since apparently the silent “e” in Pharisee doesn’t count. And apparently doubles as in “but not cannabis“ don’t count as silent either. Ahh well.

BND, you’ve smoked a lot of pot in your life, am I right?

Ghastly, but not Gross uses a whale or a ghost because those words have a silent letter.

Marijuana has a silent J so: Marijuana, but not Cannabis 🐳 gbng

Ghost, but not Goblin was what I originally called the silent letter consonant game.

Ghastly, but not Gross fits better with Deep, but not Profound, which was a game my friend once sprung on a class that we were in together.

Cannabis, but not marijuana. :mrgreen: dbnp

also works because Cannabis has a double letter, but Marijuana does not.

Once upon a time long-long ago and in a land far-far away, I did imbibe, but alas can no longer do so. Have you tried magic truffles?

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