OT dietary law vs WoW

[Robin Hood]

I may have posted something along these lines previously, but I can't find it.

What should be our attitude to God's dietary laws outlined in the Old Testament?
Should we consume pork or shellfish for example? There are good reasons for identifying these creatures as unclean, and the health risks are much higher than those from the biblically clean animals.

Or does the word of wisdom with it's general restriction on meat consumption supercede the original law anyway?

[Niemand]

I may have posted something along these lines previously, but I can't find it.

What should be our attitude to God's dietary laws outlined in the Old Testament?
Should we consume pork or shellfish for example? There are good reasons for identifying these creatures as unclean, and the health risks are much higher than those from the biblically clean animals.

Or does the word of wisdom with it's general restriction on meat consumption supercede the original law anyway?

I think both pork and shellfish are climate dependent, i.e. if you live in a cold climate, they are a lot safer.

I have cut down shellfish a lot recently. A friend got some reduced price shellfish at the supermarket some years ago. I knew about it for days afterwards. But if something's fresh, I'll have it. I got a lobster off a fisherman down in Whithorn a few weeks ago... that was good. I saw the thing when it came in, and paid a fraction of the market price!

Do you know about the Scottish pork taboo? Despite Scots' current love for pig products, Scots turned their noses up at them in the past. In some parts of the Hebrides, the indigenous folk are sceptical of shellfish, and won't eat skate either. The prejudice against it was once as strong as against horse meat.

“The writer must confess to being one of those who prefer not to eat pork in any form, but for no other reason than an inherited prejudice such as Englishmen, as well as Scotsmen, entertain towards a diet of horse flesh.”

James VI was said by the English playwright Ben Jonson, to have "hated pork in all its varieties".

"The Scots (Lowlanders) till within the last generation disliked swine's flesh as an article of food as much as the Highlanders do at present." - The Fortunes of Nigel, Walter Scott

Not much in evidence nowadays as pork and bacon are practically Scottish staples.

I'm doing a lot of cutting and pasting today

Mark 7.17And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. 18And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; 19because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? 20And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

(1 Timothy 4:1-5) 4 However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage and command people to abstain from foods that God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth. 4 For every creation of God is fine, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is sanctified through God’s word and prayer over it.

I think we should be ethical in where we source our meat from though, and what the animals are fed. BSE came from cruel factory farming. Farm animals should have a good life.

[Niemand]

I do have misgivings about gene splicing etc, and think that is covered in Leviticus:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63930

Gene splicing isn't science fiction, it's already here. It's been put into tomatoes to increase shelf life, and they are attempting to do this with farm animals too.

[Luke]

“A thorough reformation is needed in regard to our eating and drinking, and on this point I will freely express myself, and shall be glad if the people will hear, believe and obey. If the people were willing to receive the true knowledge from heaven in regard to their diet they would cease eating swine’s flesh. I know this as well as Moses knew it, and without putting it in a code of commandments.” (Brigham Young, JD 12:192, 6 April 1868)

[Niemand]

“A thorough reformation is needed in regard to our eating and drinking, and on this point I will freely express myself, and shall be glad if the people will hear, believe and obey. If the people were willing to receive the true knowledge from heaven in regard to their diet they would cease eating swine’s flesh. I know this as well as Moses knew it, and without putting it in a code of commandments.” (Brigham Young, JD 12:192, 6 April 1868)

I believe some of the early saints also practiced circumcision briefly and some went in for Pentecostal style speaking in tongues... I am not fussed about this, but I think all meat should be cooked thoroughly and I won't be eating pork in hot climates.

[Robin Hood]

“A thorough reformation is needed in regard to our eating and drinking, and on this point I will freely express myself, and shall be glad if the people will hear, believe and obey. If the people were willing to receive the true knowledge from heaven in regard to their diet they would cease eating swine’s flesh. I know this as well as Moses knew it, and without putting it in a code of commandments.” (Brigham Young, JD 12:192, 6 April 1868)

I believe some of the early saints also practiced circumcision briefly and some went in for Pentecostal style speaking in tongues... I am not fussed about this, but I think all meat should be cooked thoroughly and I won't be eating pork in hot climates.

According to the climate alarmists that will include Scotland very soon!

[OPMissionary]

I may have posted something along these lines previously, but I can't find it.

What should be our attitude to God's dietary laws outlined in the Old Testament?
Should we consume pork or shellfish for example? There are good reasons for identifying these creatures as unclean, and the health risks are much higher than those from the biblically clean animals.

Or does the word of wisdom with it's general restriction on meat consumption supercede the original law anyway?

I never eat pork, it's not good for you because it can contain tapeworms and other parasites.

[Durzan]

I do have misgivings about gene splicing etc, and think that is covered in Leviticus:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63930

Gene splicing isn't science fiction, it's already here. It's been put into tomatoes to increase shelf life, and they are attempting to do this with farm animals too.

Most of what you are referring to is called cross pollination and has been a thing for a very long while.

[Niemand]

I do have misgivings about gene splicing etc, and think that is covered in Leviticus:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63930

Gene splicing isn't science fiction, it's already here. It's been put into tomatoes to increase shelf life, and they are attempting to do this with farm animals too.

Most of what you are referring to is called cross pollination and has been a thing for a very long while.

Not at all. It is what is known as "lateral gene transfer". It happens very rarely in nature, and seems to take place via viruses (the virus acquires a genetic portion from another species, and this is in turn passed on to a third.) But even that is a fluke.

Years ago some scientists were putting jellyfish genes into mice so they would glow in the dark... and made a big deal of it - every press agency had the story, so it was hardly some great secret. Now we see fruit and veg with genes from fungi, bacteria and so on put into them...

Livestock will be next. We are already seeing the production of fake meat promoted by the usual suspects. Some of that uses some animal genetic material as well as the "plant-based" (one of their latest buzzwords) material. The only thing which elevates it above the worst forms of factory farming is the lack of cruelty. But it will be a lot less healthy, and less green (despite all their pronouncements otherwise.)

Still an abomination and a lot more than cross-pollination. Cross pollination is something a couple of flowers do, or catkins. It's not taking genes from something found in deep ocean sludge and then putting it into a cow.

[tdj]

I may have posted something along these lines previously, but I can't find it.

What should be our attitude to God's dietary laws outlined in the Old Testament?
Should we consume pork or shellfish for example? There are good reasons for identifying these creatures as unclean, and the health risks are much higher than those from the biblically clean animals.

Or does the word of wisdom with it's general restriction on meat consumption supercede the original law anyway?

I never eat pork, it's not good for you because it can contain tapeworms and other parasites.

They get killed off before you ever eat them.

[LukeAir2008]

“A thorough reformation is needed in regard to our eating and drinking, and on this point I will freely express myself, and shall be glad if the people will hear, believe and obey. If the people were willing to receive the true knowledge from heaven in regard to their diet they would cease eating swine’s flesh. I know this as well as Moses knew it, and without putting it in a code of commandments.” (Brigham Young, JD 12:192, 6 April 1868)

I believe some of the early saints also practiced circumcision briefly and some went in for Pentecostal style speaking in tongues... I am not fussed about this, but I think all meat should be cooked thoroughly and I won't be eating pork in hot climates.

According to the climate alarmists that will include Scotland very soon!

We had one of our best summers this year so if this is climate change - bring it on!

[Robin Hood]

“A thorough reformation is needed in regard to our eating and drinking, and on this point I will freely express myself, and shall be glad if the people will hear, believe and obey. If the people were willing to receive the true knowledge from heaven in regard to their diet they would cease eating swine’s flesh. I know this as well as Moses knew it, and without putting it in a code of commandments.” (Brigham Young, JD 12:192, 6 April 1868)

I believe some of the early saints also practiced circumcision briefly and some went in for Pentecostal style speaking in tongues... I am not fussed about this, but I think all meat should be cooked thoroughly and I won't be eating pork in hot climates.

According to the climate alarmists that will include Scotland very soon!

We had one of our best summers this year so if this is climate change - bring it on!

Really.... so summer was a Tuesday AND a Wednesday in Scotland this year?

[LukeAir2008]

I believe some of the early saints also practiced circumcision briefly and some went in for Pentecostal style speaking in tongues... I am not fussed about this, but I think all meat should be cooked thoroughly and I won't be eating pork in hot climates.

According to the climate alarmists that will include Scotland very soon!

We had one of our best summers this year so if this is climate change - bring it on!

Really.... so summer was a Tuesday AND a Wednesday in Scotland this year?

Not quite the whole of Wednesday….

[Niemand]

“A thorough reformation is needed in regard to our eating and drinking, and on this point I will freely express myself, and shall be glad if the people will hear, believe and obey. If the people were willing to receive the true knowledge from heaven in regard to their diet they would cease eating swine’s flesh. I know this as well as Moses knew it, and without putting it in a code of commandments.” (Brigham Young, JD 12:192, 6 April 1868)

I believe some of the early saints also practiced circumcision briefly and some went in for Pentecostal style speaking in tongues... I am not fussed about this, but I think all meat should be cooked thoroughly and I won't be eating pork in hot climates.

According to the climate alarmists that will include Scotland very soon!

We had one of our best summers this year so if this is climate change - bring it on!

Last year was a decent summer too. I wish I'd used it more instead of believing the bull they were feeding us all. Some nice beaches in the Highlands. Sheltered too, for when Spain becomes an extension of the Sahara.

[Durzan]

I do have misgivings about gene splicing etc, and think that is covered in Leviticus:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63930

Gene splicing isn't science fiction, it's already here. It's been put into tomatoes to increase shelf life, and they are attempting to do this with farm animals too.

Most of what you are referring to is called cross pollination and has been a thing for a very long while.

Not at all. It is what is known as "lateral gene transfer". It happens very rarely in nature, and seems to take place via viruses (the virus acquires a genetic portion from another species, and this is in turn passed on to a third.) But even that is a fluke.

Years ago some scientists were putting jellyfish genes into mice so they would glow in the dark... and made a big deal of it - every press agency had the story, so it was hardly some great secret. Now we see fruit and veg with genes from fungi, bacteria and so on put into them...

Livestock will be next. We are already seeing the production of fake meat promoted by the usual suspects. Some of that uses some animal genetic material as well as the "plant-based" (one of their latest buzzwords) material. The only thing which elevates it above the worst forms of factory farming is the lack of cruelty. But it will be a lot less healthy, and less green (despite all their pronouncements otherwise.)

Still an abomination and a lot more than cross-pollination. Cross pollination is something a couple of flowers do, or catkins. It's not taking genes from something found in deep ocean sludge and then putting it into a cow.

Uhm. Lateral gene transfer does naturally occur in nature... but with bacteria.

[Niemand]

I do have misgivings about gene splicing etc, and think that is covered in Leviticus:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63930

Gene splicing isn't science fiction, it's already here. It's been put into tomatoes to increase shelf life, and they are attempting to do this with farm animals too.

Most of what you are referring to is called cross pollination and has been a thing for a very long while.

Not at all. It is what is known as "lateral gene transfer". It happens very rarely in nature, and seems to take place via viruses (the virus acquires a genetic portion from another species, and this is in turn passed on to a third.) But even that is a fluke.

Years ago some scientists were putting jellyfish genes into mice so they would glow in the dark... and made a big deal of it - every press agency had the story, so it was hardly some great secret. Now we see fruit and veg with genes from fungi, bacteria and so on put into them...

Livestock will be next. We are already seeing the production of fake meat promoted by the usual suspects. Some of that uses some animal genetic material as well as the "plant-based" (one of their latest buzzwords) material. The only thing which elevates it above the worst forms of factory farming is the lack of cruelty. But it will be a lot less healthy, and less green (despite all their pronouncements otherwise.)

Still an abomination and a lot more than cross-pollination. Cross pollination is something a couple of flowers do, or catkins. It's not taking genes from something found in deep ocean sludge and then putting it into a cow.

Uhm. Lateral gene transfer does naturally occur in nature... but with bacteria.

Virus get host cells to replicate their DNA, and on rare occasions some of their DNA will combine with the hosts accidentally. This has to happen on two different occasions for the gene transfer to occur between higher species.

But that isn't the same as artificially putting fungal genes into a tomato, let alone jellyfish genes into a mouse... both of which are real life & publicised examples. God knows what they get up to behind closed doors... but some of it has already ended up on people's plates.

[keeprunning]

I may have posted something along these lines previously, but I can't find it.

What should be our attitude to God's dietary laws outlined in the Old Testament?
Should we consume pork or shellfish for example? There are good reasons for identifying these creatures as unclean, and the health risks are much higher than those from the biblically clean animals.

Or does the word of wisdom with it's general restriction on meat consumption supercede the original law anyway?

The law is fulfilled in Christ, all foods are made clean. It doesn't matter what you eat. Just use wisdom.

[Subcomandante]

I may have posted something along these lines previously, but I can't find it.

What should be our attitude to God's dietary laws outlined in the Old Testament?
Should we consume pork or shellfish for example? There are good reasons for identifying these creatures as unclean, and the health risks are much higher than those from the biblically clean animals.

Or does the word of wisdom with it's general restriction on meat consumption supercede the original law anyway?

You look at different health codes that have been prescribed, such as the Kosher requirements in the OP, the Halal requirements that are quite similar to the Kosher requirements, as well as the Word of Wisdom.

It all boils down to the following:

Do we know that the thing in question is good for our body? If so, it is kosher, halal, and in favor of the Word of Wisdom. Is it not good for our body? Then it is terefah, haram, and against the Word of Wisdom.

Now, officially, to get a recommendation for a temple, one only need avoid drugs, tobacco, alcohol, coffee, and black and green teas. That is the LETTER of the law.

But I think God would rather have us follow the SPIRIT of the law.

[Subcomandante]

In the kosher laws, not only was pork and shellfish forbidden, but ANY type of meat together with a dairy product that was taken from the animal was also forbidden. The reason why, as a couple of Israeli students told me, is because you are not allowed to mix the dead with the living (in Hebrew, meat is synonymous with a dead animal, and milk is synonymous with a live animal, as this is the first nutrient that a mother passes to her offspring: Her milk). This same prohibition also applies for the consumption of blood (that is forbidden in Judaism) as blood is a sign of life. There is no prohibition on alcohol albeit getting drunk is frowned upon. Coffee and tea are not verboten either.

Halal is quite similar to kosher; pork meat is forbidden. But the restriction of meat and dairy together do not apply to halal. Coffee was originally haram under halal laws as it was seen as a stimulant, but that changed about 700 years after the birth of Islam. Tea is still considered halal. Alcohol is haram in halal, not only as a beverage but even using it as an ingredient in cooking is prohibited.

The Word of Wisdom as originally revealed allowed for the following:

Limitation of meat consumption (except in winter or in periods of drought)
Mild barley drinks (think beer with a low percentage of alcohol)
All the grains
Fruits and vegetables
Prohibitions were on strong drinks (such as different hard liquors), tobacco, and hot drinks (later interpreted as coffee and tea) but essentially using the dictionaries at the time, would have referred to any stimulating drinks. A prohibition also existed for wine, unless it was homemade.

The three of them are quite similar. Essentially, what we have, and what the Jews and Muslims have (as well as some Christians like the Seventh Day Adventists), are very similar.

Essentially, what is good for the body, is good for the dietary laws, and what is bad for the body, is bad for the dietary laws.

[abijah`]

I suspect the dietary law, along with the rest of the Law, speaks primarily to a much higher, spiritual reality than a temporal physical one.

[keeprunning]

I suspect the dietary law, along with the rest of the Law, speaks primarily to a much higher, spiritual reality than a temporal physical one.

Yeah, Christ is the law.

[XEmilyX]

I'm willing to give up pork if I truly should but idk if it's still in effect.