Polygamy = Adultery

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Mamabear
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Mamabear »

JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:05 pm
Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:00 pm
JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 2:50 pm
Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 1:52 pm It’s unfortunate that there will be no sex after we die. So for all the wanna be polygamists you’re in for some disappointment.
In fact, better start the polygamy now since it won’t happen later.
Another assumption not in evidence...
No evidence of sex in the afterlife. Except for “enlightened” men who claim it’s a freaking reality. I’m absolutely sure Joseph and Brigham won’t be married to their plural wives popping out spirit kids or “celestial” babies. Makes absolutely zero sense.
Then apparently you either disagree with or don't understand the entire point of the restored gospel.
God's entire existence is about creating more Gods, who then create more God's. The entire plan of the gospel from creation to atonement to resurrection is entirely about continuing the race of the Gods. It's all about God's family kingdom increasing eternally.
In every creation, in every peopled world, in all Celestial kingdoms, for eternity upon eternity. It's about progression of family.
I disagree with the restored gospel. There is only salvation not exaltation, which Mormons invented. Jesus never taught it.

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JLHPROF
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by JLHPROF »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:14 pm
JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 2:45 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 2:25 pm
JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 2:15 pm Sorry, there's no sin in polygamy itself.
How fitting to make such a blanket statement. If this practice occurs without heavenly approval it is an abomination.
Agreed. But why?
It's important to understand the why and the context.
God can never approve sin.

God commanded Nephi and others to kill so what is the sin of murder?
God told Abraham to "lie" about his relationship to Sarah.

In the stories of God giving wives to David via Nathan or Abraham and Jacob we have approval or at least no condemnation at all.
So I say again that these prophets of God, his covenant leaders, his highest priesthood holders, lived polygamy with no sin. Because polygamy isn't sinful. So what are the sins related to polygamy?
We've gone over this before and the distinctions between Nephi and Abraham. These aren't even in the same ballpark, especially when taken into context of Mormon history. The prophet of this dispensation was actively and openly condemning the practice w/ the most condemning language.
The reason we keep rehashing it is that neither of us can make a very convincing case I guess. But we do keep trying. :lol:

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JLHPROF
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by JLHPROF »

Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:15 pm
JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:05 pm
Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:00 pm
JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 2:50 pm

Another assumption not in evidence...
No evidence of sex in the afterlife. Except for “enlightened” men who claim it’s a freaking reality. I’m absolutely sure Joseph and Brigham won’t be married to their plural wives popping out spirit kids or “celestial” babies. Makes absolutely zero sense.
Then apparently you either disagree with or don't understand the entire point of the restored gospel.
God's entire existence is about creating more Gods, who then create more God's. The entire plan of the gospel from creation to atonement to resurrection is entirely about continuing the race of the Gods. It's all about God's family kingdom increasing eternally.
In every creation, in every peopled world, in all Celestial kingdoms, for eternity upon eternity. It's about progression of family.
I disagree with the restored gospel. There is only salvation not exaltation, which Mormons invented. Jesus never taught it.
I disagree. He taught exaltation repeatedly.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:16 pm The reason we keep rehashing it is that neither of us can make a very convincing case I guess. But we do keep trying. :lol:
I don't care to convince anyone. That's the role of the Holy Ghost, to reveal the truthfulness of all things.

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JLHPROF
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by JLHPROF »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:19 pm
JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:16 pm The reason we keep rehashing it is that neither of us can make a very convincing case I guess. But we do keep trying. :lol:
I don't care to convince anyone. That's the role of the Holy Ghost, to reveal the truthfulness of all things.
Unfortunately everyone thinks they're led by the Spirit but that he's telling them all contradictory things.

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TheDuke
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by TheDuke »

Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:00 pm
JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 2:50 pm
Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 1:52 pm It’s unfortunate that there will be no sex after we die. So for all the wanna be polygamists you’re in for some disappointment.
In fact, better start the polygamy now since it won’t happen later.
Another assumption not in evidence...
No evidence of sex in the afterlife. Except for “enlightened” men who claim it’s a freaking reality. I’m absolutely sure Joseph and Brigham won’t be married to their plural wives popping out spirit kids or “celestial” babies. Makes absolutely zero sense.
obviously you are correct. We learn in the scriptures that we are the children of god and that god formed all his male children of spiritual clay and then all of his daughters he took from the spiritual clay ribs of their male siblings. How silly of anyone to think that god creates his children in his own image, male and female like every other creature was created in the spiritual creation. I mean we know everything in the temple endowment is lies made by BY, so we surely know that all creatures do not pro-create in their own kind, again male and female. How silly to think god would be like that. How silly to think god is a male and has a mate. Silly, silly, silly. Silly BY said that Adam learned that this world is like the world he came from.... either a BY lie or was Satan saying that anyway. Silly, silly, silly people to think that we came into this world to learn to overcome things, like sexual perversions and to think King Ben even talked about overcoming the natural man. Silly, silly, silly to think god would have some characteristics of his children. And so silly to think celestial marriage even means anything. Silly to think there are females in heaven... such silliness is rampant.

What I'm excited about most Mama is to hear you're story of how god creates his children. Please explain. I am all ears!

Further, I guess if it is from clay and ribs there is no need for a heavenly mother... all males in the celestial kingdom them? I mean if female celestial beings aren't going to have offspring and are not to be mothers, then there is no need for females at all is there?

I guess I'm just not silly enough, because I think the scriptures are true and tell us all we need to know about how this life is similar to god's kingdom and perhaps the story of making people out of dirt and clay is figurative and that in reality heavenly mother gives birth to her own children along with father and that is perhaps the way the temple teaches it and I am silly enough to believe the temple.

Please note that I have said nothing here about polygamy, neither about sexual relations. But I have come to the understanding that when male and females come together (as taught in the temple) to have offspring, they get involved in some sort of intimacy, of course god could be more like a fish or something vs. what he created Adam and Eve to do?

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:26 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:19 pm
JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:16 pm The reason we keep rehashing it is that neither of us can make a very convincing case I guess. But we do keep trying. :lol:
I don't care to convince anyone. That's the role of the Holy Ghost, to reveal the truthfulness of all things.
Unfortunately everyone thinks they're led by the Spirit but that he's telling them all contradictory things.
That's the risk we take in being mortal, susceptible to all types of influences. And, to be honest, some of us are getting misinformation or are only able to see a particular precept with a set lens. This sample principle applies to almost all doctrinal principles: PSRs, keys, authority, priesthood, tithing, polygamy (and polyandry for that matter), ordinances, temples, etc., etc., etc.

EDIT: Let's take an extreme example. "IF" SRA was being conducted covertly by church leadership, I assume most members would be more than astonished. Or if they were presented with information about any other truly abhorrent behavior. The difficulty is most members will never study something that they believe would ever happen by a church leader, because, of course, they "can never lead you astray." Which is an anti-Christian philosophy in and of itself.

Mamabear
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Mamabear »

TheDuke wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:34 pm
Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:00 pm
JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 2:50 pm
Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 1:52 pm It’s unfortunate that there will be no sex after we die. So for all the wanna be polygamists you’re in for some disappointment.
In fact, better start the polygamy now since it won’t happen later.
Another assumption not in evidence...
No evidence of sex in the afterlife. Except for “enlightened” men who claim it’s a freaking reality. I’m absolutely sure Joseph and Brigham won’t be married to their plural wives popping out spirit kids or “celestial” babies. Makes absolutely zero sense.
obviously you are correct. We learn in the scriptures that we are the children of god and that god formed all his male children of spiritual clay and then all of his daughters he took from the spiritual clay ribs of their male siblings. How silly of anyone to think that god creates his children in his own image, male and female like every other creature was created in the spiritual creation. I mean we know everything in the temple endowment is lies made by BY, so we surely know that all creatures do not pro-create in their own kind, again male and female. How silly to think god would be like that. How silly to think god is a male and has a mate. Silly, silly, silly. Silly BY said that Adam learned that this world is like the world he came from.... either a BY lie or was Satan saying that anyway. Silly, silly, silly people to think that we came into this world to learn to overcome things, like sexual perversions and to think King Ben even talked about overcoming the natural man. Silly, silly, silly to think god would have some characteristics of his children. And so silly to think celestial marriage even means anything. Silly to think there are females in heaven... such silliness is rampant.

What I'm excited about most Mama is to hear you're story of how god creates his children. Please explain. I am all ears!

Further, I guess if it is from clay and ribs there is no need for a heavenly mother... all males in the celestial kingdom them? I mean if female celestial beings aren't going to have offspring and are not to be mothers, then there is no need for females at all is there?

I guess I'm just not silly enough, because I think the scriptures are true and tell us all we need to know about how this life is similar to god's kingdom and perhaps the story of making people out of dirt and clay is figurative and that in reality heavenly mother gives birth to her own children along with father and that is perhaps the way the temple teaches it and I am silly enough to believe the temple.

Please note that I have said nothing here about polygamy, neither about sexual relations. But I have come to the understanding that when male and females come together (as taught in the temple) to have offspring, they get involved in some sort of intimacy, of course god could be more like a fish or something vs. what he created Adam and Eve to do?
I don’t believe the things which are taught in temples and I don’t believe a heavenly mother births spirit children out of her spirit uterus.
Peace brother Duke.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Somehow the symbolic nature of the creation story was lost on some of us.

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TheDuke
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by TheDuke »

Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 4:21 pm
I don’t believe the things which are taught in temples and I don’t believe a heavenly mother births spirit children out of her spirit uterus.
Peace brother Duke.
Fair enough, and you will obtain your reward. after all knowledge is the key to eternal life per Jesus and not to have the knowledge is to not have the key. All will work out as we desire. So, you don't have to worry at all about having any celestial popping out of you.

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JLHPROF
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by JLHPROF »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 4:26 pm Somehow the symbolic nature of the creation story was lost on some of us.
Which symbol do you think we're missing?
It's absolutely symbolic. But maybe not in the way some think.

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TheDuke
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by TheDuke »

Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:15 pm
I disagree with the restored gospel. There is only salvation not exaltation, which Mormons invented. Jesus never taught it.
Never mind my comments, I thought you had some affiliation with LDS teachings. I see no use talking with someone who doesn't accept the even the basis of a restored gospel. Sorry.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 4:57 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 4:26 pm Somehow the symbolic nature of the creation story was lost on some of us.
Which symbol do you think we're missing?
It's absolutely symbolic. But maybe not in the way some think.
That will be a big thread drift.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

TheDuke wrote: January 31st, 2023, 5:27 pm
Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:15 pm
I disagree with the restored gospel. There is only salvation not exaltation, which Mormons invented. Jesus never taught it.
Never mind my comments, I thought you had some affiliation with LDS teachings. I see no use talking with someone who doesn't accept the even the basis of a restored gospel. Sorry.
I don't agree with LDS teachings that contradict the gospel of Christ. And there are many. Funny how perspective works. Now, what I can agree with is the condescending attitude of many w/in the LDS church. You might as well just stop responding to this thread.

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TheDuke
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by TheDuke »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 5:30 pm
I don't agree with LDS teachings that contradict the gospel of Christ. And there are many. Funny how perspective works. Now, what I can agree with is the condescending attitude of many w/in the LDS church. You might as well just stop responding to this thread.
ditto: feel free to stop yourself seems like good advice. And I didn't mean to be condescending, but truly do not think there is a basis to discuss matters of exaltation with someone who doesn't even accept Joseph Smith as there is no basis at all. Same with her comments on polygamy, they are not even LDS-centric. I'm only willing to discuss these sacred matters with folks that at least can accept the premise that Joseph restored something, even if we argue amongst us about what it is. If you cannot see that then I'm sorry you cannot see where I'm coming from.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

TheDuke wrote: January 31st, 2023, 5:36 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 5:30 pm
I don't agree with LDS teachings that contradict the gospel of Christ. And there are many. Funny how perspective works. Now, what I can agree with is the condescending attitude of many w/in the LDS church. You might as well just stop responding to this thread.
ditto: feel free to stop yourself seems like good advice. And I didn't mean to be condescending, but truly do not think there is a basis to discuss matters of exaltation with someone who doesn't even accept Joseph Smith as there is no basis at all. Same with her comments on polygamy, they are not even LDS-centric. I'm only willing to discuss these sacred matters with folks that at least can accept the premise that Joseph restored something, even if we argue amongst us about what it is. If you cannot see that then I'm sorry you cannot see where I'm coming from.
You think Joseph was a polygamist?

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TheDuke
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by TheDuke »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 5:44 pm
You think Joseph was a polygamist?
Yes.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

TheDuke wrote: January 31st, 2023, 5:51 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 5:44 pm
You think Joseph was a polygamist?
Yes.
LOL... ok, we don't need to banter back and forth anymore. You believe that Joseph was a damned liar and hypocrite. And that the Lord sanctioned it.

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JLHPROF
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by JLHPROF »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 5:30 pm
TheDuke wrote: January 31st, 2023, 5:27 pm
Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:15 pm
I disagree with the restored gospel. There is only salvation not exaltation, which Mormons invented. Jesus never taught it.
Never mind my comments, I thought you had some affiliation with LDS teachings. I see no use talking with someone who doesn't accept the even the basis of a restored gospel. Sorry.
I don't agree with LDS teachings that contradict the gospel of Christ. And there are many. Funny how perspective works. Now, what I can agree with is the condescending attitude of many w/in the LDS church. You might as well just stop responding to this thread.
Funny, I don't think any LDS doctrine contradicts the gospel of Christ since they make up the parts of that gospel.
Perhaps the challenge is what you think the gospel is or where you get that idea.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

The church admits they are teaching false doctrine, but in a very deceptive way: https://www.reluctantwatchman.com/hand-foot-eye

Mamabear
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Mamabear »

TheDuke wrote: January 31st, 2023, 5:27 pm
Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:15 pm
I disagree with the restored gospel. There is only salvation not exaltation, which Mormons invented. Jesus never taught it.
Never mind my comments, I thought you had some affiliation with LDS teachings. I see no use talking with someone who doesn't accept the even the basis of a restored gospel. Sorry.
I used to. But the church’s lies woke me up.

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TheDuke
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by TheDuke »

Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 7:24 pm I used to. But the church’s lies woke me up.
I guess that is ok there is a lot of "woke" going around these days.

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Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 1:52 pm It’s unfortunate that there will be no sex after we die. So for all the wanna be polygamists you’re in for some disappointment.
In fact, better start the polygamy now since it won’t happen later.
No sex, but nagging will still be a thing, wouldn't that be hilarious. Joke's on you, polygamists! :) :)

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Redpilled Mormon
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Redpilled Mormon »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:35 pm
JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:26 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:19 pm
JLHPROF wrote: January 31st, 2023, 3:16 pm The reason we keep rehashing it is that neither of us can make a very convincing case I guess. But we do keep trying. :lol:
I don't care to convince anyone. That's the role of the Holy Ghost, to reveal the truthfulness of all things.
Unfortunately everyone thinks they're led by the Spirit but that he's telling them all contradictory things.
That's the risk we take in being mortal, susceptible to all types of influences. And, to be honest, some of us are getting misinformation or are only able to see a particular precept with a set lens. This sample principle applies to almost all doctrinal principles: PSRs, keys, authority, priesthood, tithing, polygamy (and polyandry for that matter), ordinances, temples, etc., etc., etc.

EDIT: Let's take an extreme example. "IF" SRA was being conducted covertly by church leadership, I assume most members would be more than astonished. Or if they were presented with information about any other truly abhorrent behavior. The difficulty is most members will never study something that they believe would ever happen by a church leader, because, of course, they "can never lead you astray." Which is an anti-Christian philosophy in and of itself.

Actually I think what would happen if Satanic Ritual Abuse within the top echelon of the ldscorp was publicly exposed, they would take the polygamy approach and lean into it. Redefine a few interpretations of vague scriptures that said something totally different, claim it was a revealed mystery to exaltation, then 'find' a new scripture that Joseph supposedly left in a desk drawer somewhere that reveals SRA is actually completely required for true exaltation, claim that they were told by God to lie about it until the proper time, and now command everyone to put it into a practice, new 'ordinances' would be discovered, and they would then act like anyone who was shocked/offended were the crazy ones. "If you were really faithful, you would have realized these mysteries were necessary long ago'.

And I wonder how many members would start singing the praises of the Emperor's New Clothes at that point?

Mamabear
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Re: Polygamy = Adultery

Post by Mamabear »

TheDuke wrote: January 31st, 2023, 7:26 pm
Mamabear wrote: January 31st, 2023, 7:24 pm I used to. But the church’s lies woke me up.
I guess that is ok there is a lot of "woke" going around these days.
Yeah and the church is pretty woke caving to every Babylonian trend. That’s what jolted me out of that silly trance.

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