LDS Freedom Forum

Atticus wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:35 pm

Niyr wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 7:41 pm

Atticus wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 7:14 pm

Niyr wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 6:24 pm

So you want the government to decide it’s own limits? And you expect me to trust those you revere with degrees from educational curriculum created by and funded by government? Lol typical bootlicker mentality.

You still haven’t been able to enunciate any actual enumerated authority in the Constitution. Zero rebuttal whatsoever.

Your insults and name calling don't change how the government was set up under the Constitution. The Constitution has different levels and branches of the government checking each other's power. That's how it was set up. If you don't recognize that, there's no point in providing any other examples of "enumerated authority."

Checks and balances were never the the argument. Now you’re shifting to another topic and still no actual content from your side of the debate to provide direct sources for your argument that the feds can take rights away with whatever law they decide to impose.

I'm not shifting to another topic at all. The power of the government is checked primarily by other levels and branches of the government. That is how it was set up. There is nothing in the Constitution that limits the governments ability to enact laws that restrict the rights of citizens, which aren't expressly enumerated in the Bill of Rights. And even the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are subject to interpretation. And it is the job of the courts to interpret the Constitution.

The Supremacy Clause most certainly limits the fed’s ability, as there is no enumerated authority in the Constitution that allows this (and you certainly have not be able to rebut that), and as such, as the clause states, that any law that must be pursuant to it (the Constitution), otherwise is no law and has no force. The Founders were very clear about unconstitutional laws.

And the courts opine on interpretation and that’s it. They are not a legislative branch. Jefferson and others were very clear about this as well.

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:55 pm

Atticus wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:36 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:28 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 3:37 pm
Serious question here. At what point do you say "enough, is enough"? When do you draw a line in the sand? Which of your rights can they not infringe upon?

Atti, still waiting... which rights are off limits? When are you gonna say enough?

My personal line in the sand has no bearing on what is and isn't constitutional.

You'd make a great lawyer. Or even better, a politician.

Nah...

If this were the case I would be telling you all want you here and trying to flatter you. That's the last thing I'm doing around here.

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 9:00 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:55 pm

Atticus wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:36 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:28 pm
Atti, still waiting... which rights are off limits? When are you gonna say enough?

My personal line in the sand has no bearing on what is and isn't constitutional.

You'd make a great lawyer. Or even better, a politician.

SP, maybe even GA.

I'll take that as a compliment.

Niyr wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 9:16 pm

Atticus wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:35 pm

Niyr wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 7:41 pm

Atticus wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 7:14 pm

Your insults and name calling don't change how the government was set up under the Constitution. The Constitution has different levels and branches of the government checking each other's power. That's how it was set up. If you don't recognize that, there's no point in providing any other examples of "enumerated authority."

Checks and balances were never the the argument. Now you’re shifting to another topic and still no actual content from your side of the debate to provide direct sources for your argument that the feds can take rights away with whatever law they decide to impose.

I'm not shifting to another topic at all. The power of the government is checked primarily by other levels and branches of the government. That is how it was set up. There is nothing in the Constitution that limits the governments ability to enact laws that restrict the rights of citizens, which aren't expressly enumerated in the Bill of Rights. And even the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are subject to interpretation. And it is the job of the courts to interpret the Constitution.

The Supremacy Clause most certainly limits the fed’s ability, as there is no enumerated authority in the Constitution that allows this (and you certainly have not be able to rebut that), and as such, as the clause states, that any law that must be pursuant to it (the Constitution), otherwise is no law and has no force. The Founders were very clear about unconstitutional laws.

And the courts opine on interpretation and that’s it. They are not a legislative branch. Jefferson and others were very clear about this as well.

Yes the courts interpret the laws created by Congress and how the Constitution is to be applied. That's my point. If the courts uphold the law as constitutional, then it is constitutional until overturned at a later point in time. Any time the government restricts any activity Americans can do, they are limiting the rights of the people. And there have been many, many laws that restrict activities Americans can do that have been upheld as constitutional by the courts.

Oaks is right about what he said.

Atticus wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 10:45 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:55 pm

Atticus wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:36 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:28 pm
Atti, still waiting... which rights are off limits? When are you gonna say enough?

My personal line in the sand has no bearing on what is and isn't constitutional.

You'd make a great lawyer. Or even better, a politician.

Nah...

If this were the case I would be telling you all want you here and trying to flatter you. That's the last thing I'm doing around here.

I'm talking about your ability to answer a question, without answering a question.
They are trying to take away your basic right to medical freedom. To decide what goes in your body, and they are using government and private sector authority to do it. The church is damn near there as well. According to your logic, we'd be groveling at the feet of anyone in authority.

Let's go Oaks!

Sir H

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 4:21 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 10:45 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:55 pm

Atticus wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:36 pm
My personal line in the sand has no bearing on what is and isn't constitutional.

You'd make a great lawyer. Or even better, a politician.

Nah...

If this were the case I would be telling you all want you here and trying to flatter you. That's the last thing I'm doing around here.

I'm talking about your ability to answer a question, without answering a question.
They are trying to take away your basic right to medical freedom. To decide what goes in your body, and they are using government and private sector authority to do it. The church is damn near there as well. According to your logic, we'd be groveling at the feet of anyone in authority.

My personal line in the sand doesn't matter here when it comes to what is and isn't Constitutional. That's not answering a question without answering it.

And I never said that we should grovel at the feet of anyone in authority. The Savior said we should follow the law and be subject to the powers that be until he whose right it is to reign appears. And I believe in following the words of the Savior instead of trusting in the arm of flesh.

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 6:24 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 4:21 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 10:45 pm

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 8:55 pm
You'd make a great lawyer. Or even better, a politician.

Nah...

If this were the case I would be telling you all want you here and trying to flatter you. That's the last thing I'm doing around here.

I'm talking about your ability to answer a question, without answering a question.
They are trying to take away your basic right to medical freedom. To decide what goes in your body, and they are using government and private sector authority to do it. The church is damn near there as well. According to your logic, we'd be groveling at the feet of anyone in authority.

My personal line in the sand doesn't matter here when it comes to what is and isn't Constitutional. That's not answering a question without answering it.

And I never said that we should grovel at the feet of anyone in authority. The Savior said we should follow the law and be subject to the powers that be until he whose right it is to reign appears. And I believe in following the words of the Savior instead of trusting in the arm of flesh.

He also said we should befriend the constitutional law of the land D&C 98:6-9.
We are under no obligation to befriend or abide any laws that are unconstitutional since they cometh of evil.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.
8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

Godislove wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 6:50 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 6:24 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 4:21 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 10:45 pm

Nah...

If this were the case I would be telling you all want you here and trying to flatter you. That's the last thing I'm doing around here.

I'm talking about your ability to answer a question, without answering a question.
They are trying to take away your basic right to medical freedom. To decide what goes in your body, and they are using government and private sector authority to do it. The church is damn near there as well. According to your logic, we'd be groveling at the feet of anyone in authority.

My personal line in the sand doesn't matter here when it comes to what is and isn't Constitutional. That's not answering a question without answering it.

And I never said that we should grovel at the feet of anyone in authority. The Savior said we should follow the law and be subject to the powers that be until he whose right it is to reign appears. And I believe in following the words of the Savior instead of trusting in the arm of flesh.

He also said we should befriend the constitutional law of the land D&C 98:6-9.
We are under no obligation to befriend or abide any laws that are unconstitutional since they cometh of evil.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.
8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

Yeah, when the wicked rule the people mourn. But the Lord never said that we can ignore any laws we feel are unjust or even unconstitutional. And like I keep saying, according to the Constitution, it is the courts who decide what is and isn't constitutional, not individual citizens. It's not a perfect system, but it's the one we have and the one God inspired.

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:08 am
Yeah, when the wicked rule the people mourn. But the Lord never said that we can ignore any laws we feel are unjust or even unconstitutional. And like I keep saying, according to the Constitution, it is the courts who decide what is and isn't constitutional, not individual citizens. It's not a perfect system, but it's the one we have and the one God inspired.

Moroni would disagree.

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:08 am

Godislove wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 6:50 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 6:24 am

Reluctant Watchman wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 4:21 am
I'm talking about your ability to answer a question, without answering a question.
They are trying to take away your basic right to medical freedom. To decide what goes in your body, and they are using government and private sector authority to do it. The church is damn near there as well. According to your logic, we'd be groveling at the feet of anyone in authority.

My personal line in the sand doesn't matter here when it comes to what is and isn't Constitutional. That's not answering a question without answering it.

And I never said that we should grovel at the feet of anyone in authority. The Savior said we should follow the law and be subject to the powers that be until he whose right it is to reign appears. And I believe in following the words of the Savior instead of trusting in the arm of flesh.

He also said we should befriend the constitutional law of the land D&C 98:6-9.
We are under no obligation to befriend or abide any laws that are unconstitutional since they cometh of evil.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.
8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

Yeah, when the wicked rule the people mourn. But the Lord never said that we can ignore any laws we feel are unjust or even unconstitutional. And like I keep saying, according to the Constitution, it is the courts who decide what is and isn't constitutional, not individual citizens. It's not a perfect system, but it's the one we have and the one God inspired.

So if a law were passed against praying. Would you obey that law?

Godislove wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:40 am So if a law were passed against praying. Would you obey that law?

Yeah, we can’t “ignore any laws we feel are unjust.”

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:10 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:08 am
Yeah, when the wicked rule the people mourn. But the Lord never said that we can ignore any laws we feel are unjust or even unconstitutional. And like I keep saying, according to the Constitution, it is the courts who decide what is and isn't constitutional, not individual citizens. It's not a perfect system, but it's the one we have and the one God inspired.

Moroni would disagree.

No, he wouldn't. He would tell us to follow the words of the Savior, which is the same thing I'm saying.

Godislove wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:40 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:08 am

Godislove wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 6:50 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 6:24 am

My personal line in the sand doesn't matter here when it comes to what is and isn't Constitutional. That's not answering a question without answering it.

And I never said that we should grovel at the feet of anyone in authority. The Savior said we should follow the law and be subject to the powers that be until he whose right it is to reign appears. And I believe in following the words of the Savior instead of trusting in the arm of flesh.

He also said we should befriend the constitutional law of the land D&C 98:6-9.
We are under no obligation to befriend or abide any laws that are unconstitutional since they cometh of evil.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.
8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

Yeah, when the wicked rule the people mourn. But the Lord never said that we can ignore any laws we feel are unjust or even unconstitutional. And like I keep saying, according to the Constitution, it is the courts who decide what is and isn't constitutional, not individual citizens. It's not a perfect system, but it's the one we have and the one God inspired.

So if a law were passed against praying. Would you obey that law?

We have the example of those that were under captivity of Amulon to answer that question. Pray in your hearts and wait upon the Lord.

The Snederflers of Czechia (which President Nelson referenced in his last post on FB / IG) was in that type of situation for DECADES. Yet they waited on the Lord.

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:51 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:10 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:08 am
Yeah, when the wicked rule the people mourn. But the Lord never said that we can ignore any laws we feel are unjust or even unconstitutional. And like I keep saying, according to the Constitution, it is the courts who decide what is and isn't constitutional, not individual citizens. It's not a perfect system, but it's the one we have and the one God inspired.

Moroni would disagree.

No, he wouldn't. He would tell us to follow the words of the Savior, which is the same thing I'm saying.

He stood up for liberty and freedom, even if it meant shedding blood. You obviously won’t do the same. Do not comply.

viewtopic.php?p=1202113#p1202113

Godislove wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:40 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:08 am

Godislove wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 6:50 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 6:24 am

My personal line in the sand doesn't matter here when it comes to what is and isn't Constitutional. That's not answering a question without answering it.

And I never said that we should grovel at the feet of anyone in authority. The Savior said we should follow the law and be subject to the powers that be until he whose right it is to reign appears. And I believe in following the words of the Savior instead of trusting in the arm of flesh.

He also said we should befriend the constitutional law of the land D&C 98:6-9.
We are under no obligation to befriend or abide any laws that are unconstitutional since they cometh of evil.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.
8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

Yeah, when the wicked rule the people mourn. But the Lord never said that we can ignore any laws we feel are unjust or even unconstitutional. And like I keep saying, according to the Constitution, it is the courts who decide what is and isn't constitutional, not individual citizens. It's not a perfect system, but it's the one we have and the one God inspired.

So if a law were passed against praying. Would you obey that law?

I'm not a fan of hypotheticals.

It would really depend on the situation. Perhaps outwardly. This is what the people of Alma in the land of Helam did.

But I don't believe such a thing would ever happen under our current government system. The courts wouldn't uphold such a law, and if they did I would expect that he whose right it is to reign would appear and save the saints.

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:53 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:51 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:10 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:08 am
Yeah, when the wicked rule the people mourn. But the Lord never said that we can ignore any laws we feel are unjust or even unconstitutional. And like I keep saying, according to the Constitution, it is the courts who decide what is and isn't constitutional, not individual citizens. It's not a perfect system, but it's the one we have and the one God inspired.

Moroni would disagree.

No, he wouldn't. He would tell us to follow the words of the Savior, which is the same thing I'm saying.

He stood up for liberty and freedom, even if it meant shedding blood. You obviously won’t do the same. Do not comply.

viewtopic.php?p=1202113#p1202113

Totally different situation.

We are to follow the words of the Savior, not use Moroni's defense of his people against enemies domestic and foreign as justification for breaking the Lord's commands.

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:51 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:10 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:08 am
Yeah, when the wicked rule the people mourn. But the Lord never said that we can ignore any laws we feel are unjust or even unconstitutional. And like I keep saying, according to the Constitution, it is the courts who decide what is and isn't constitutional, not individual citizens. It's not a perfect system, but it's the one we have and the one God inspired.

Moroni would disagree.

No, he wouldn't. He would tell us to follow the words of the Savior, which is the same thing I'm saying.

The words of the Savior also tell us to pray. In the Bible and in Daniel's day a law was made against prayer but Daniel still prayed. And he prayed not in his heart only because he was found out.
Why did he continue to pray??(and not in his heart only)? Because the law was unjust and he was spared in the Lion's Den.
Does this mean that Daniel was not following the words of the Savior because he continued to pray after it was made a law?
No, Daniel was in fact following the Savior even though he was breaking the law at the time.
If a law was made against prayer in our day or being able to teach prayer to your children. Are you going to abide that law?

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:56 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:53 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:51 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:10 am

Moroni would disagree.

No, he wouldn't. He would tell us to follow the words of the Savior, which is the same thing I'm saying.

He stood up for liberty and freedom, even if it meant shedding blood. You obviously won’t do the same. Do not comply.

viewtopic.php?p=1202113#p1202113

Totally different situation.

We are to follow the words of the Savior, not use Moroni's defense of his people against enemies domestic and foreign as justification for breaking the Lord's commands.

If they attempt to take away the basics rights of liberty and freedom, there will be blood.

You sound like the king-men.

Do not comply to tyranny.

• ”Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.” (Alma 48:17)

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 8:00 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:56 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:53 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:51 am

No, he wouldn't. He would tell us to follow the words of the Savior, which is the same thing I'm saying.

He stood up for liberty and freedom, even if it meant shedding blood. You obviously won’t do the same. Do not comply.

viewtopic.php?p=1202113#p1202113

Totally different situation.

We are to follow the words of the Savior, not use Moroni's defense of his people against enemies domestic and foreign as justification for breaking the Lord's commands.

If they attempt to take away the basics rights of liberty and freedom, there will be blood.

You sound like the king-men.

• ”Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.” (Alma 48:17)

Enough of your false accusations and excuses for rejecting the words of the Savior.

This is just getting ridiculous now.

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 8:01 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 8:00 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:56 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:53 am

He stood up for liberty and freedom, even if it meant shedding blood. You obviously won’t do the same. Do not comply.

viewtopic.php?p=1202113#p1202113

Totally different situation.

We are to follow the words of the Savior, not use Moroni's defense of his people against enemies domestic and foreign as justification for breaking the Lord's commands.

If they attempt to take away the basics rights of liberty and freedom, there will be blood.

You sound like the king-men.

• ”Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.” (Alma 48:17)

Enough of your false accusations and excuses for rejecting the words of the Savior.

This is just getting ridiculous now.

Pick a side.

”And it came to pass that Moroni commanded that his army should go against those king-men, to pull down their pride and their nobility and level them with the earth, or they should take up arms and support the cause of liberty.”

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 6:24 am My personal line in the sand doesn't matter here when it comes to what is and isn't Constitutional. That's not answering a question without answering it.

And I never said that we should grovel at the feet of anyone in authority. The Savior said we should follow the law and be subject to the powers that be until he whose right it is to reign appears. And I believe in following the words of the Savior instead of trusting in the arm of flesh.

The philosophy of man, mangled with scripture.

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:55 am

Godislove wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:40 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:08 am

Godislove wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 6:50 am

He also said we should befriend the constitutional law of the land D&C 98:6-9.
We are under no obligation to befriend or abide any laws that are unconstitutional since they cometh of evil.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.
8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

Yeah, when the wicked rule the people mourn. But the Lord never said that we can ignore any laws we feel are unjust or even unconstitutional. And like I keep saying, according to the Constitution, it is the courts who decide what is and isn't constitutional, not individual citizens. It's not a perfect system, but it's the one we have and the one God inspired.

So if a law were passed against praying. Would you obey that law?

I'm not a fan of hypotheticals.

It would really depend on the situation. Perhaps outwardly. This is what the people of Alma in the land of Helam did.

But I don't believe such a thing would ever happen under our current government system. The courts wouldn't uphold such a law, and if they did I would expect that he whose right it is to reign would appear and save the saints.

I'm not exactly sure that would happen, at least not immediately.

I think if one were to REALLY delve deep into President Nelson's post about World Freedom Day and talking about the Snederflers' resilience in the face of decades of Communist occupation where it was illegal to have faith, he is telling us that times are going to be even tougher than they are now. And any attempts to want to play the hero are going to be met with force by the different governments of the world.

What can we do? Have an inward faith, and take care of your own family. Obey your local laws even if they appear unjust. Face your burdens with gladness and shock those who would rather see you get unbalanced and angry at them. Respond unjust acts with just acts. THIS is the Christlike way.

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 8:03 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 8:01 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 8:00 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 7:56 am

Totally different situation.

We are to follow the words of the Savior, not use Moroni's defense of his people against enemies domestic and foreign as justification for breaking the Lord's commands.

If they attempt to take away the basics rights of liberty and freedom, there will be blood.

You sound like the king-men.

• ”Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.” (Alma 48:17)

Enough of your false accusations and excuses for rejecting the words of the Savior.

This is just getting ridiculous now.

Pick a side.

”And it came to pass that Moroni commanded that his army should go against those king-men, to pull down their pride and their nobility and level them with the earth, or they should take up arms and support the cause of liberty.”

My side is following the commandments of Jesus Christ.

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 8:24 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 8:03 am

Atticus wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 8:01 am

Gadianton Slayer wrote: ↑November 18th, 2021, 8:00 am
If they attempt to take away the basics rights of liberty and freedom, there will be blood.

You sound like the king-men.

• ”Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.” (Alma 48:17)

Enough of your false accusations and excuses for rejecting the words of the Savior.

This is just getting ridiculous now.

Pick a side.

”And it came to pass that Moroni commanded that his army should go against those king-men, to pull down their pride and their nobility and level them with the earth, or they should take up arms and support the cause of liberty.”

My side is following the commandments of Jesus Christ.

So you will take up arms and root out evil. Because if we were all like Moroni, the devil would have no power.

Anything less that free-will is satanic.