Tithe the Poor

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

moving2zion wrote: December 6th, 2022, 8:41 pm This principal is one that will have both sides of the argument going back and forth for generations to come. I can see the fraud, waste, and abuse that comes with investments in worldly things like City Creek Mall, er I mean the great and spacious Tower of Salt Lake City. There are many in the church that could truly use a hand up. However there are eternal principles that come with paying a healthy tithe. We all know the story of the widows mite. This story tells us more than this woman was learning how to budget, which many of us need(myself included), it is truly telling us to put the Lord first and he will open the windows of heaven in his time. What constitutes your tithe I don't believe is going to come down to you and your bishop or you and your general authority. It will be between you and the Lord when you stand before the pleasing judgment bar. Paying 10%+ on everything you bring in won't matter if you are a pedophile and support the LGBTQ agenda. What's in your heart and your intent will be what matters most. Your actions will speak loudest of all. I pulled up to a stop sign the other day with my oldest son sitting next to me in the car. Two homeless men were out in the cold. I had my son fish around to see if there was anything we could give them. The light turned green before we could find anything usefull to give them. At this point I am just trying to teach my kids that the intent is what matters the most. Tithing is paid, but our hearts intent and what we put our hands to is what will carry the day. Those up above us will be held accountable for how they use sacred funds.
Something to consider, and only if you feel prompted to do so, is to park your car and actually go speak to the people who are asking for help. We've found this to be a wonderful experience and were able to meet very specific needs.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

endlessismyname wrote: December 6th, 2022, 9:05 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: December 6th, 2022, 8:50 pm
endlessismyname wrote: December 6th, 2022, 8:48 pm I’m tired of tithing.

I want to live the law of consecration.

Am I the only one?
You’re not alone. I have had that fervent desire since 2010.
When I was newly married I made an inventory of all our possessions, skills, talents, etc.

I made an appointment with a member of the stake presidency. I explained my desire.

He didn’t even look at the paper. Just handed it back to me and told me it wouldn’t be necessary.

I already knew that. I don’t really care if it’s necessary. I’m ready. Is there any people on earth that is also ready? I would really like to know.
IMO, true consecration does not run through the structured organization (aka the church). I think a tithe should go to the church (to meet various immediate needs), but any consecrated resources are done per families within the community.

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HereWeGo
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by HereWeGo »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 12th, 2021, 4:41 am I'm curious, what do people think of the church requiring payment of tithes to enter the temple in order to receive "saving" ordinances?
1910, April 5 – William Smart (Stake president in Utah) records that on this day tithing 10% of one’s income became a mandatory requirement for entering the temple, as well as a standard requirement for worthiness screenings to qualify for leadership callings. (William H. Smart diary, April 5, 1910, Manuscripts Division, Marriott Library)

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

HereWeGo wrote: December 6th, 2022, 10:01 pm
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 12th, 2021, 4:41 am I'm curious, what do people think of the church requiring payment of tithes to enter the temple in order to receive "saving" ordinances?
1910, April 5 – William Smart (Stake president in Utah) records that on this day tithing 10% of one’s income became a mandatory requirement for entering the temple, as well as a standard requirement for worthiness screenings to qualify for leadership callings. (William H. Smart diary, April 5, 1910, Manuscripts Division, Marriott Library)
An unfortunate day indeed.

NowWhat
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by NowWhat »

The law of consecration, with these guys in control??

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Original_Intent
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Original_Intent »

NowWhat wrote: December 7th, 2022, 11:07 am The law of consecration, with these guys in control??
You will own nothing and be happy.

Letfreedumbring
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Letfreedumbring »

Tithing is quite simple. It doesn't take a genius to figure out.

You give 10% to the church then they give a % to the UN to help all the rest of the world so they can help the 1%

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JandD6572
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by JandD6572 »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: December 6th, 2022, 9:28 pm
moving2zion wrote: December 6th, 2022, 8:41 pm This principal is one that will have both sides of the argument going back and forth for generations to come. I can see the fraud, waste, and abuse that comes with investments in worldly things like City Creek Mall, er I mean the great and spacious Tower of Salt Lake City. There are many in the church that could truly use a hand up. However there are eternal principles that come with paying a healthy tithe. We all know the story of the widows mite. This story tells us more than this woman was learning how to budget, which many of us need(myself included), it is truly telling us to put the Lord first and he will open the windows of heaven in his time. What constitutes your tithe I don't believe is going to come down to you and your bishop or you and your general authority. It will be between you and the Lord when you stand before the pleasing judgment bar. Paying 10%+ on everything you bring in won't matter if you are a pedophile and support the LGBTQ agenda. What's in your heart and your intent will be what matters most. Your actions will speak loudest of all. I pulled up to a stop sign the other day with my oldest son sitting next to me in the car. Two homeless men were out in the cold. I had my son fish around to see if there was anything we could give them. The light turned green before we could find anything usefull to give them. At this point I am just trying to teach my kids that the intent is what matters the most. Tithing is paid, but our hearts intent and what we put our hands to is what will carry the day. Those up above us will be held accountable for how they use sacred funds.
Something to consider, and only if you feel prompted to do so, is to park your car and actually go speak to the people who are asking for help. We've found this to be a wonderful experience and were able to meet very specific needs.
I agree that those at the top of this so called church, will be held accountable for the misuse of tithing, however, so are the lowly pheasants who are brain washed about having to pay 10% before anything else. So those who are struggling, living pay check to pay check, single parents, etc. have pounded into their heads, that you must pay the church before anything else. So, now the lowly pheasants are accountable to man, for not being able to pay their debts, buy food etc. While the church rakes in billions, and leadership taking home millions, the followers are left in squalor just trying to live. This church isn't any better than the so called mega church who rip off their followers.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

JandD6572 wrote: December 9th, 2022, 5:46 am I agree that those at the top of this so called church, will be held accountable for the misuse of tithing, however, so are the lowly pheasants who are brain washed about having to pay 10% before anything else. So those who are struggling, living pay check to pay check, single parents, etc. have pounded into their heads, that you must pay the church before anything else. So, now the lowly pheasants are accountable to man, for not being able to pay their debts, buy food etc. While the church rakes in billions, and leadership taking home millions, the followers are left in squalor just trying to live. This church isn't any better than the so called mega church who rip off their followers.
The only thing I feel I can judge is how I care for others, and how correct doctrine should be presented/lived when witnessed from Heaven. And I am glad that God has been merciful to me when I was asleep to many truths.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

Here's another link I added to the "resources" section of my essay. A very interesting historical perspective of changes in tithing between 1884 and 1970. It includes several of the links I've provided, but also some additional details that is quite fascinating.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comment ... f_tithing/
The Apostle Orson Hyde wrote,

“If it requires all man can earn to support himself and his family, he is not tithed at all. The celestial law does not take the mother’s and children’s bread, neither ought else which they really need for their comfort. The poor that have not of this world’s good to spare, but serve and honor God according to the best of their abilities in every other way, shall have a celestial crown in the Eternal Kingdom of our Father.” The Millenial Star, 1884.

Lorenzo Snow – October 19, 1879:

“But as regards the law of tithing, it is in force upon the poor as well as the rich, and it seems that it acts almost unequally in some respects. There is a widow, whose income is ten dollars; she pays one for tithing and then has to appeal to the Bishop for support. Here is a rich man who has an income of one hundred thousand dollars, and pays ten thousand for his tithing. Now, what would be the operation of the celestial law? The widow has not enough for her support, therefore nothing is required of her by the celestial law, or the law of the United Order.”

In the early 1900’s Joseph F Smith declared that the members of the church had the option to look at the churches use of tithing funds to ensure that the funds were properly used.

Oct. 4, 1905 [Anthony W. Ivins] Conference...."Pres. Smith made introductory remarks. Get out of debt. Tithing increasing. Tithing books open to to all Latter- day Saints but not to the world. "

October 1905 Conference Report, Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Pg. 5:

“I want to say further to the Saints, that your brethren to whom you have entrusted the care and management of the finances of the Church stand ready and willing, any moment,’ to answer to YOU — to Latter-day Saints, to tithe payers, to those who are in the faith of the Gospel — for our stewardship. We can give you an account of our doings to the last senine; and I defy any man on earth to point his finger to a dollar that is willfully wasted or stolen by the servants of God. The tithing books are kept as accurately and as perfectly as any books kept in any bank. Every man that pays a dollar tithing gets his credit on the books; and if he wants to see that his credit is there he can go and see for himself. But we do not propose to open our books and show your accounts to every Tom, Dick and Harry in the land that never did pay any tithing. We do not propose to do that, if we can help it. But you Latter-day Saints who pay your tithes and your offerings, if you want to see for yourselves, that you may be eye and ear witnesses, the books are open to you, and you can come and examine your accounts any business day you want.”

April 1906 Conference Report, Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Pg. 6,7:

“I want to say to the Latter-day Saints that the year 1905 has been the banner year for the tithings of the people. You can put that down in your memorandum books, and remember it. Never in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have the people contributed as much tithing as they did in 1905. And yet they have not done anything more than their duty; in fact, there are a great many Latter-day Saints that have not done their duty, as the books will show.

In this connection I may say that a most thorough and searching audition of the books of the Trustee-in-Trust, the books of the Presiding Bishopric, and the books of the Deseret News Company, has been made by the auditors that were appointed and sustained at our last conference. Before the conclusion of this conference we will read you their report, and I believe you will be perfectly satisfied with it. The man that complains about not knowing what is done with the tithing, in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred is the man who has no credit on the books of the Church for paying tithing. We do not care to exhibit the books of the Church to such carpers and to that class of people. But there is not a tithe payer in the Church that cannot go to the Presiding Bishop’s Office, or to the office of the Trustee-in-Trust, if he desires, and find his account, and see to it that every dollar he has given to the Lord for tithing is credited to him. Then, if he wants to be more searching as a tithe payer and find out what is done with the tithing, we will set before him the whole thing, and if he has any good counsel to give us we will take it from him. But we will not — because we do not have to, and it is not the business of the world to require it open our books to the world, unless we wish to. We are not ashamed of them. We are not afraid for them to be inspected. They are honest and straight; and there is not a man in the world that will look at them, but will say so, if he is honest himself.”

April 1907 LDS General Conference, Joseph F. Smith, Pg. 7:

At last we are in a position that we can pay as we go. We do not have to borrow any more, and we wont have to if the Latter-day Saints continue to live their religion and observe this law of tithing, It is the law of revenue to the Church. Furthermore, I want to say to you, we may not be able to reach it right away, but we expect to see the day when we will not have to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord, because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for the advancement of the kingdom of God. I want to live to see that day, if the Lord will spare my life. It does not make any difference, though, so far as that is concerned, whether I live or not. That is the true policy, the true purpose of the Lord in the management of the affairs of His Church.

1908 Presiding Bishop Charles W. Nibley moved the Church to an all-cash basis and no longer issued tithing scrip.

Apr 5, 1910 Joseph F. Smith instructs bishops and stake presidents that payment of tithing and observance of Word of Wisdom are necessary for Mormons to obtain temple recommends.

Apr 6, 1915 church released its first detailed report to "show how the tithing of the Church for the year 1914 has been disbursed." These annual reports of expenditures continue until last public statement in Apr. 1959

In 1920 the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints was re-incorporated as a “corporate soul”. And in the corporate charter it states specifically that the church has the authority to use all funds an property of the church “without any authority” or feedback from the members

"ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION

First: The name of this corporation shall be the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.

Second: The object of this corporation shall be to acquire, hold and dispose of such real and personal property as may be conveyed to or acquired by said corporation for the benefit of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a religious society, for the benefit of religion, for works of charity and for public worship. Such real and personal property may be situated, either within the State of Utah, or elsewhere, and this corporation shall have power, without any authority or authorization from the members of said Church or religious society, to grant, sell, convey, rent, mortgage, exchange, or otherwise dispose of any part or all of such property."

As of Dec 1, 1923, no member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints has any form of Common consent over how the church uses tithing funds. Unlike under the administration of Joseph F Smith where members were welcomed to examine the churches books, there are no audits and no accountability to the membership who's money the church takes in annually.

Excerpt from the LDS 1940 General Handbook of Instruction:

"Who Should Pay Tithing
All members of the Church who have any income or increase from property, or who receive wages, salaries or gifts, should pay one-tenth of their “increase” annually. (See Doc. and Cov. 119:4.) Children eight years of age or over who have been baptized are amenable to the law of tithing and should be encouraged to tithe their earnings. They should be given an opportunity to pay some tithing each year. no matter how small the amount.

Persons Exempt From Payment of Tithing
Aged persons without incomes; women who have no income separate from that of their husbands; children who have no individual source of revenue; and persons dependent entirely upon federal or other relief are exempt from the payment of tithes. Those receiving federal or other relief may be considered exempt because the relief rendered is supposedly only sufficient to sup-ply their absolute needs. All Latter-day Saints should be encouraged to cultivate the spirit and practice of tithe paying when conditions are such that they are able to earn.

1944 you start to see comments on paying the lord first. This is specifically meant to curb the practice of deducting taxes and living expenses (farmers are still allowed to deduct their operating expenses) - LeGrand Richards, Conference Report, April 1944, p.45.

Excerpt from the LDS 1968 General Handbook of Instruction:

Who Should Pay Tithing
Church members should pay one-tenth of their interest (income) annually into the tithing funds of the Church.

Those without income (including wives who have no separate income from their husbands) , and those entirely dependent on relief, are exempt from the payment of tithing.

Missionaries on full-time missions are not required to pay tithing on money received from their families or others for their support. Additional personal income should be tithed.

1970 – Joseph Fielding Smith sends a letter defining ‘interest’ as ‘income’ to all Bishops, Stake and Mission Presidents.

On March 19, 1970, the First Presidency sent the following letter to presidents of stakes and missions, bishops of wards, and presidents of branches in answer to the question, “What is a proper tithe?”

“For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.”

The last sentence is left out of the modern handbook and all church public statements on tithing.

Excerpt from the LDS 2010 General Handbook of Instruction:

Who Should Pay Tithing
All members who have income should pay tithing, with the following exceptions:

Members who are entirely dependent on Church Welfare assistance.

Full-time missionaries. (However, missionaries should pay tithing on personal income beyond the amount they receive for their support.)

[1] Stan Larson (editor), A Ministry of Meetings: The Apostolic diaries of Rudger Clawson, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1993

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ransomme
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by ransomme »

Who thinks that tithing is no different than a tax?

BY et al, without revelation changed the definition of tithing on one's own surplus to mean a 10% tax on one's own income.

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Craig Johnson
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Craig Johnson »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 10th, 2021, 6:34 am For me, this is one of those "draw a line in the sand" doctrines that clearly shows the church is in apostasy.
Ever since I started paying my tithing and actually just a little more than 10% I have had zero financial difficulties, no problem paying bills, buying food, no problem whatsoever surviving and getting by and currently I own my home and have no problems with paying my taxes on it, which of course means the county actually owns it since I will forever have to pay taxes on it and our vehicles and retirement income. I guess it's not like buying a pair of shoes, a computer, a horse or a blanket in some politician's minds.
Before I started paying tithing I had a lot of difficulties, in fact for most of that era I was homeless. I could not ever seem to make ends meet and I struggled to find work. In my case that all ended concurrently with my beginning to pay tithing on what little I had at the time.
I would not stop paying my tithing for any reason that I can think of and have seen some people lose their shirts immediately after they quit.
That's what I have experienced.

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FoxMammaWisdom
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by FoxMammaWisdom »

Reluctant Watchman wrote: December 13th, 2022, 5:20 am Here's another link I added to the "resources" section of my essay. A very interesting historical perspective of changes in tithing between 1884 and 1970. It includes several of the links I've provided, but also some additional details that is quite fascinating.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comment ... f_tithing/
The Apostle Orson Hyde wrote,

“If it requires all man can earn to support himself and his family, he is not tithed at all. The celestial law does not take the mother’s and children’s bread, neither ought else which they really need for their comfort. The poor that have not of this world’s good to spare, but serve and honor God according to the best of their abilities in every other way, shall have a celestial crown in the Eternal Kingdom of our Father.” The Millenial Star, 1884.

Lorenzo Snow – October 19, 1879:

“But as regards the law of tithing, it is in force upon the poor as well as the rich, and it seems that it acts almost unequally in some respects. There is a widow, whose income is ten dollars; she pays one for tithing and then has to appeal to the Bishop for support. Here is a rich man who has an income of one hundred thousand dollars, and pays ten thousand for his tithing. Now, what would be the operation of the celestial law? The widow has not enough for her support, therefore nothing is required of her by the celestial law, or the law of the United Order.”

In the early 1900’s Joseph F Smith declared that the members of the church had the option to look at the churches use of tithing funds to ensure that the funds were properly used.

Oct. 4, 1905 [Anthony W. Ivins] Conference...."Pres. Smith made introductory remarks. Get out of debt. Tithing increasing. Tithing books open to to all Latter- day Saints but not to the world. "

October 1905 Conference Report, Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Pg. 5:

“I want to say further to the Saints, that your brethren to whom you have entrusted the care and management of the finances of the Church stand ready and willing, any moment,’ to answer to YOU — to Latter-day Saints, to tithe payers, to those who are in the faith of the Gospel — for our stewardship. We can give you an account of our doings to the last senine; and I defy any man on earth to point his finger to a dollar that is willfully wasted or stolen by the servants of God. The tithing books are kept as accurately and as perfectly as any books kept in any bank. Every man that pays a dollar tithing gets his credit on the books; and if he wants to see that his credit is there he can go and see for himself. But we do not propose to open our books and show your accounts to every Tom, Dick and Harry in the land that never did pay any tithing. We do not propose to do that, if we can help it. But you Latter-day Saints who pay your tithes and your offerings, if you want to see for yourselves, that you may be eye and ear witnesses, the books are open to you, and you can come and examine your accounts any business day you want.”

April 1906 Conference Report, Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Pg. 6,7:

“I want to say to the Latter-day Saints that the year 1905 has been the banner year for the tithings of the people. You can put that down in your memorandum books, and remember it. Never in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have the people contributed as much tithing as they did in 1905. And yet they have not done anything more than their duty; in fact, there are a great many Latter-day Saints that have not done their duty, as the books will show.

In this connection I may say that a most thorough and searching audition of the books of the Trustee-in-Trust, the books of the Presiding Bishopric, and the books of the Deseret News Company, has been made by the auditors that were appointed and sustained at our last conference. Before the conclusion of this conference we will read you their report, and I believe you will be perfectly satisfied with it. The man that complains about not knowing what is done with the tithing, in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred is the man who has no credit on the books of the Church for paying tithing. We do not care to exhibit the books of the Church to such carpers and to that class of people. But there is not a tithe payer in the Church that cannot go to the Presiding Bishop’s Office, or to the office of the Trustee-in-Trust, if he desires, and find his account, and see to it that every dollar he has given to the Lord for tithing is credited to him. Then, if he wants to be more searching as a tithe payer and find out what is done with the tithing, we will set before him the whole thing, and if he has any good counsel to give us we will take it from him. But we will not — because we do not have to, and it is not the business of the world to require it open our books to the world, unless we wish to. We are not ashamed of them. We are not afraid for them to be inspected. They are honest and straight; and there is not a man in the world that will look at them, but will say so, if he is honest himself.”

April 1907 LDS General Conference, Joseph F. Smith, Pg. 7:

At last we are in a position that we can pay as we go. We do not have to borrow any more, and we wont have to if the Latter-day Saints continue to live their religion and observe this law of tithing, It is the law of revenue to the Church. Furthermore, I want to say to you, we may not be able to reach it right away, but we expect to see the day when we will not have to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord, because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for the advancement of the kingdom of God. I want to live to see that day, if the Lord will spare my life. It does not make any difference, though, so far as that is concerned, whether I live or not. That is the true policy, the true purpose of the Lord in the management of the affairs of His Church.

1908 Presiding Bishop Charles W. Nibley moved the Church to an all-cash basis and no longer issued tithing scrip.

Apr 5, 1910 Joseph F. Smith instructs bishops and stake presidents that payment of tithing and observance of Word of Wisdom are necessary for Mormons to obtain temple recommends.

Apr 6, 1915 church released its first detailed report to "show how the tithing of the Church for the year 1914 has been disbursed." These annual reports of expenditures continue until last public statement in Apr. 1959

In 1920 the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints was re-incorporated as a “corporate soul”. And in the corporate charter it states specifically that the church has the authority to use all funds an property of the church “without any authority” or feedback from the members

"ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION

First: The name of this corporation shall be the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.

Second: The object of this corporation shall be to acquire, hold and dispose of such real and personal property as may be conveyed to or acquired by said corporation for the benefit of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a religious society, for the benefit of religion, for works of charity and for public worship. Such real and personal property may be situated, either within the State of Utah, or elsewhere, and this corporation shall have power, without any authority or authorization from the members of said Church or religious society, to grant, sell, convey, rent, mortgage, exchange, or otherwise dispose of any part or all of such property."

As of Dec 1, 1923, no member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints has any form of Common consent over how the church uses tithing funds. Unlike under the administration of Joseph F Smith where members were welcomed to examine the churches books, there are no audits and no accountability to the membership who's money the church takes in annually.

Excerpt from the LDS 1940 General Handbook of Instruction:

"Who Should Pay Tithing
All members of the Church who have any income or increase from property, or who receive wages, salaries or gifts, should pay one-tenth of their “increase” annually. (See Doc. and Cov. 119:4.) Children eight years of age or over who have been baptized are amenable to the law of tithing and should be encouraged to tithe their earnings. They should be given an opportunity to pay some tithing each year. no matter how small the amount.

Persons Exempt From Payment of Tithing
Aged persons without incomes; women who have no income separate from that of their husbands; children who have no individual source of revenue; and persons dependent entirely upon federal or other relief are exempt from the payment of tithes. Those receiving federal or other relief may be considered exempt because the relief rendered is supposedly only sufficient to sup-ply their absolute needs. All Latter-day Saints should be encouraged to cultivate the spirit and practice of tithe paying when conditions are such that they are able to earn.

1944 you start to see comments on paying the lord first. This is specifically meant to curb the practice of deducting taxes and living expenses (farmers are still allowed to deduct their operating expenses) - LeGrand Richards, Conference Report, April 1944, p.45.

Excerpt from the LDS 1968 General Handbook of Instruction:

Who Should Pay Tithing
Church members should pay one-tenth of their interest (income) annually into the tithing funds of the Church.

Those without income (including wives who have no separate income from their husbands) , and those entirely dependent on relief, are exempt from the payment of tithing.

Missionaries on full-time missions are not required to pay tithing on money received from their families or others for their support. Additional personal income should be tithed.

1970 – Joseph Fielding Smith sends a letter defining ‘interest’ as ‘income’ to all Bishops, Stake and Mission Presidents.

On March 19, 1970, the First Presidency sent the following letter to presidents of stakes and missions, bishops of wards, and presidents of branches in answer to the question, “What is a proper tithe?”

“For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.”

The last sentence is left out of the modern handbook and all church public statements on tithing.

Excerpt from the LDS 2010 General Handbook of Instruction:

Who Should Pay Tithing
All members who have income should pay tithing, with the following exceptions:

Members who are entirely dependent on Church Welfare assistance.

Full-time missionaries. (However, missionaries should pay tithing on personal income beyond the amount they receive for their support.)

[1] Stan Larson (editor), A Ministry of Meetings: The Apostolic diaries of Rudger Clawson, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1993
I wish I would have known all those quotes when I was a member and the church didn't care that I was an impoverished sick single Mom with a special needs child the father had abandoned. Even though I was receiving help from the church to pay my bills and rent, the church made me pay tithing on that. So they literally made me write a check to reimburse them for 10% of what they helped me with. On top of that I had to pay on my child support which is legally not even my money it's my child's.

But then being treated this way in president Monson's Ward was the final straw for me. Building Elite-Zion from the blood of the poor, not caring for them.

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ransomme
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by ransomme »

Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 9:12 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 10th, 2021, 6:34 am For me, this is one of those "draw a line in the sand" doctrines that clearly shows the church is in apostasy.
Ever since I started paying my tithing and actually just a little more than 10% I have had zero financial difficulties, no problem paying bills, buying food, no problem whatsoever surviving and getting by and currently I own my home and have no problems with paying my taxes on it, which of course means the county actually owns it since I will forever have to pay taxes on it and our vehicles and retirement income. I guess it's not like buying a pair of shoes, a computer, a horse or a blanket in some politician's minds.
Before I started paying tithing I had a lot of difficulties, in fact for most of that era I was homeless. I could not ever seem to make ends meet and I struggled to find work. In my case that all ended concurrently with my beginning to pay tithing on what little I had at the time.
I would not stop paying my tithing for any reason that I can think of and have seen some people lose their shirts immediately after they quit.
That's what I have experienced.
Huntsman, Marriot and Romney must pay a lot of tithing.... ha ha ha

And I guess the widow with the mite is just unbelieving.

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Craig Johnson
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Location: Washington State.

Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Craig Johnson »

ransomme wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:22 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 9:12 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 10th, 2021, 6:34 am For me, this is one of those "draw a line in the sand" doctrines that clearly shows the church is in apostasy.
Ever since I started paying my tithing and actually just a little more than 10% I have had zero financial difficulties, no problem paying bills, buying food, no problem whatsoever surviving and getting by and currently I own my home and have no problems with paying my taxes on it, which of course means the county actually owns it since I will forever have to pay taxes on it and our vehicles and retirement income. I guess it's not like buying a pair of shoes, a computer, a horse or a blanket in some politician's minds.
Before I started paying tithing I had a lot of difficulties, in fact for most of that era I was homeless. I could not ever seem to make ends meet and I struggled to find work. In my case that all ended concurrently with my beginning to pay tithing on what little I had at the time.
I would not stop paying my tithing for any reason that I can think of and have seen some people lose their shirts immediately after they quit.
That's what I have experienced.
Huntsman, Marriot and Romney must pay a lot of tithing.... ha ha ha

And I guess the widow with the mite is just unbelieving.
I don't actually know if they pay any tithing.
I am telling you the truth, this is what I experienced.
Why would the widow be unbelieving?

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Robin Hood
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Robin Hood »

Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:39 pm
ransomme wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:22 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 9:12 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 10th, 2021, 6:34 am For me, this is one of those "draw a line in the sand" doctrines that clearly shows the church is in apostasy.
Ever since I started paying my tithing and actually just a little more than 10% I have had zero financial difficulties, no problem paying bills, buying food, no problem whatsoever surviving and getting by and currently I own my home and have no problems with paying my taxes on it, which of course means the county actually owns it since I will forever have to pay taxes on it and our vehicles and retirement income. I guess it's not like buying a pair of shoes, a computer, a horse or a blanket in some politician's minds.
Before I started paying tithing I had a lot of difficulties, in fact for most of that era I was homeless. I could not ever seem to make ends meet and I struggled to find work. In my case that all ended concurrently with my beginning to pay tithing on what little I had at the time.
I would not stop paying my tithing for any reason that I can think of and have seen some people lose their shirts immediately after they quit.
That's what I have experienced.
Huntsman, Marriot and Romney must pay a lot of tithing.... ha ha ha

And I guess the widow with the mite is just unbelieving.
I don't actually know if they pay any tithing.
I am telling you the truth, this is what I experienced.
Why would the widow be unbelieving?
The problem with your stated position is that there are many people who pay tithing who don't seem to benefit in this way, who don't have enough to get by, and who can't afford to pay their bills etc. And conversely there are many people who are very wealthy and have never paid a penny in tithing.
To link tithing to financial success is an example of the prosperity gospel and is not of God.

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ransomme
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by ransomme »

Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:39 pm
ransomme wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:22 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 9:12 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: November 10th, 2021, 6:34 am For me, this is one of those "draw a line in the sand" doctrines that clearly shows the church is in apostasy.
Ever since I started paying my tithing and actually just a little more than 10% I have had zero financial difficulties, no problem paying bills, buying food, no problem whatsoever surviving and getting by and currently I own my home and have no problems with paying my taxes on it, which of course means the county actually owns it since I will forever have to pay taxes on it and our vehicles and retirement income. I guess it's not like buying a pair of shoes, a computer, a horse or a blanket in some politician's minds.
Before I started paying tithing I had a lot of difficulties, in fact for most of that era I was homeless. I could not ever seem to make ends meet and I struggled to find work. In my case that all ended concurrently with my beginning to pay tithing on what little I had at the time.
I would not stop paying my tithing for any reason that I can think of and have seen some people lose their shirts immediately after they quit.
That's what I have experienced.
Huntsman, Marriot and Romney must pay a lot of tithing.... ha ha ha

And I guess the widow with the mite is just unbelieving.
I don't actually know if they pay any tithing.
I am telling you the truth, this is what I experienced.
Why would the widow be unbelieving?
She is obviously unbelieving...she's still poor and doesn't have enough, yet she still gives all that she has. Maybe God just favors those who give "Him" more money.

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Craig Johnson
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Posts: 1991
Location: Washington State.

Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Craig Johnson »

Robin Hood wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:52 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:39 pm
ransomme wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:22 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 9:12 am

Ever since I started paying my tithing and actually just a little more than 10% I have had zero financial difficulties, no problem paying bills, buying food, no problem whatsoever surviving and getting by and currently I own my home and have no problems with paying my taxes on it, which of course means the county actually owns it since I will forever have to pay taxes on it and our vehicles and retirement income. I guess it's not like buying a pair of shoes, a computer, a horse or a blanket in some politician's minds.
Before I started paying tithing I had a lot of difficulties, in fact for most of that era I was homeless. I could not ever seem to make ends meet and I struggled to find work. In my case that all ended concurrently with my beginning to pay tithing on what little I had at the time.
I would not stop paying my tithing for any reason that I can think of and have seen some people lose their shirts immediately after they quit.
That's what I have experienced.
Huntsman, Marriot and Romney must pay a lot of tithing.... ha ha ha

And I guess the widow with the mite is just unbelieving.
I don't actually know if they pay any tithing.
I am telling you the truth, this is what I experienced.
Why would the widow be unbelieving?
The problem with your stated position is that there are many people who pay tithing who don't seem to benefit in this way, who don't have enough to get by, and who can't afford to pay their bills etc. And conversely there are many people who are very wealthy and have never paid a penny in tithing.
To link tithing to financial success is an example of the prosperity gospel and is not of God.
Well, during the time I was paying tithing, for nine years of that, I was on food stamps and I think they called it wika. That might not be considered financial success, but I was enlisted in the military. We got by. It never occurred to me that struggling while paying tithing means that tithing is ineffective. I always felt and still feel blessed because of being tithed. I pay just over 10% of all my income so I can make certain I don't pay less. We have never been wealthy, but I am certainly not worried about anything and haven't been for quite a while.

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Craig Johnson
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Posts: 1991
Location: Washington State.

Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Craig Johnson »

ransomme wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:53 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:39 pm
ransomme wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:22 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 9:12 am

Ever since I started paying my tithing and actually just a little more than 10% I have had zero financial difficulties, no problem paying bills, buying food, no problem whatsoever surviving and getting by and currently I own my home and have no problems with paying my taxes on it, which of course means the county actually owns it since I will forever have to pay taxes on it and our vehicles and retirement income. I guess it's not like buying a pair of shoes, a computer, a horse or a blanket in some politician's minds.
Before I started paying tithing I had a lot of difficulties, in fact for most of that era I was homeless. I could not ever seem to make ends meet and I struggled to find work. In my case that all ended concurrently with my beginning to pay tithing on what little I had at the time.
I would not stop paying my tithing for any reason that I can think of and have seen some people lose their shirts immediately after they quit.
That's what I have experienced.
Huntsman, Marriot and Romney must pay a lot of tithing.... ha ha ha

And I guess the widow with the mite is just unbelieving.
I don't actually know if they pay any tithing.
I am telling you the truth, this is what I experienced.
Why would the widow be unbelieving?
She is obviously unbelieving...she's still poor and doesn't have enough, yet she still gives all that she has. Maybe God just favors those who give "Him" more money.
I don't look at it that way. Especially since it was the Lord who brought her to everyone's attention and then He did not discourage giving. In fact it sounds to me like He is saying if you want blessings it is one way to obtain them.

TwochurchesOnly
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by TwochurchesOnly »

FoxMammaWisdom wrote: December 28th, 2022, 9:28 am
Reluctant Watchman wrote: December 13th, 2022, 5:20 am Here's another link I added to the "resources" section of my essay. A very interesting historical perspective of changes in tithing between 1884 and 1970. It includes several of the links I've provided, but also some additional details that is quite fascinating.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comment ... f_tithing/
The Apostle Orson Hyde wrote,

“If it requires all man can earn to support himself and his family, he is not tithed at all. The celestial law does not take the mother’s and children’s bread, neither ought else which they really need for their comfort. The poor that have not of this world’s good to spare, but serve and honor God according to the best of their abilities in every other way, shall have a celestial crown in the Eternal Kingdom of our Father.” The Millenial Star, 1884.

Lorenzo Snow – October 19, 1879:

“But as regards the law of tithing, it is in force upon the poor as well as the rich, and it seems that it acts almost unequally in some respects. There is a widow, whose income is ten dollars; she pays one for tithing and then has to appeal to the Bishop for support. Here is a rich man who has an income of one hundred thousand dollars, and pays ten thousand for his tithing. Now, what would be the operation of the celestial law? The widow has not enough for her support, therefore nothing is required of her by the celestial law, or the law of the United Order.”

In the early 1900’s Joseph F Smith declared that the members of the church had the option to look at the churches use of tithing funds to ensure that the funds were properly used.

Oct. 4, 1905 [Anthony W. Ivins] Conference...."Pres. Smith made introductory remarks. Get out of debt. Tithing increasing. Tithing books open to to all Latter- day Saints but not to the world. "

October 1905 Conference Report, Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Pg. 5:

“I want to say further to the Saints, that your brethren to whom you have entrusted the care and management of the finances of the Church stand ready and willing, any moment,’ to answer to YOU — to Latter-day Saints, to tithe payers, to those who are in the faith of the Gospel — for our stewardship. We can give you an account of our doings to the last senine; and I defy any man on earth to point his finger to a dollar that is willfully wasted or stolen by the servants of God. The tithing books are kept as accurately and as perfectly as any books kept in any bank. Every man that pays a dollar tithing gets his credit on the books; and if he wants to see that his credit is there he can go and see for himself. But we do not propose to open our books and show your accounts to every Tom, Dick and Harry in the land that never did pay any tithing. We do not propose to do that, if we can help it. But you Latter-day Saints who pay your tithes and your offerings, if you want to see for yourselves, that you may be eye and ear witnesses, the books are open to you, and you can come and examine your accounts any business day you want.”

April 1906 Conference Report, Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Pg. 6,7:

“I want to say to the Latter-day Saints that the year 1905 has been the banner year for the tithings of the people. You can put that down in your memorandum books, and remember it. Never in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have the people contributed as much tithing as they did in 1905. And yet they have not done anything more than their duty; in fact, there are a great many Latter-day Saints that have not done their duty, as the books will show.

In this connection I may say that a most thorough and searching audition of the books of the Trustee-in-Trust, the books of the Presiding Bishopric, and the books of the Deseret News Company, has been made by the auditors that were appointed and sustained at our last conference. Before the conclusion of this conference we will read you their report, and I believe you will be perfectly satisfied with it. The man that complains about not knowing what is done with the tithing, in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred is the man who has no credit on the books of the Church for paying tithing. We do not care to exhibit the books of the Church to such carpers and to that class of people. But there is not a tithe payer in the Church that cannot go to the Presiding Bishop’s Office, or to the office of the Trustee-in-Trust, if he desires, and find his account, and see to it that every dollar he has given to the Lord for tithing is credited to him. Then, if he wants to be more searching as a tithe payer and find out what is done with the tithing, we will set before him the whole thing, and if he has any good counsel to give us we will take it from him. But we will not — because we do not have to, and it is not the business of the world to require it open our books to the world, unless we wish to. We are not ashamed of them. We are not afraid for them to be inspected. They are honest and straight; and there is not a man in the world that will look at them, but will say so, if he is honest himself.”

April 1907 LDS General Conference, Joseph F. Smith, Pg. 7:

At last we are in a position that we can pay as we go. We do not have to borrow any more, and we wont have to if the Latter-day Saints continue to live their religion and observe this law of tithing, It is the law of revenue to the Church. Furthermore, I want to say to you, we may not be able to reach it right away, but we expect to see the day when we will not have to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord, because we will have tithes sufficient in the storehouse of the Lord to pay everything that is needful for the advancement of the kingdom of God. I want to live to see that day, if the Lord will spare my life. It does not make any difference, though, so far as that is concerned, whether I live or not. That is the true policy, the true purpose of the Lord in the management of the affairs of His Church.

1908 Presiding Bishop Charles W. Nibley moved the Church to an all-cash basis and no longer issued tithing scrip.

Apr 5, 1910 Joseph F. Smith instructs bishops and stake presidents that payment of tithing and observance of Word of Wisdom are necessary for Mormons to obtain temple recommends.

Apr 6, 1915 church released its first detailed report to "show how the tithing of the Church for the year 1914 has been disbursed." These annual reports of expenditures continue until last public statement in Apr. 1959

In 1920 the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints was re-incorporated as a “corporate soul”. And in the corporate charter it states specifically that the church has the authority to use all funds an property of the church “without any authority” or feedback from the members

"ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION

First: The name of this corporation shall be the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.

Second: The object of this corporation shall be to acquire, hold and dispose of such real and personal property as may be conveyed to or acquired by said corporation for the benefit of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a religious society, for the benefit of religion, for works of charity and for public worship. Such real and personal property may be situated, either within the State of Utah, or elsewhere, and this corporation shall have power, without any authority or authorization from the members of said Church or religious society, to grant, sell, convey, rent, mortgage, exchange, or otherwise dispose of any part or all of such property."

As of Dec 1, 1923, no member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints has any form of Common consent over how the church uses tithing funds. Unlike under the administration of Joseph F Smith where members were welcomed to examine the churches books, there are no audits and no accountability to the membership who's money the church takes in annually.

Excerpt from the LDS 1940 General Handbook of Instruction:

"Who Should Pay Tithing
All members of the Church who have any income or increase from property, or who receive wages, salaries or gifts, should pay one-tenth of their “increase” annually. (See Doc. and Cov. 119:4.) Children eight years of age or over who have been baptized are amenable to the law of tithing and should be encouraged to tithe their earnings. They should be given an opportunity to pay some tithing each year. no matter how small the amount.

Persons Exempt From Payment of Tithing
Aged persons without incomes; women who have no income separate from that of their husbands; children who have no individual source of revenue; and persons dependent entirely upon federal or other relief are exempt from the payment of tithes. Those receiving federal or other relief may be considered exempt because the relief rendered is supposedly only sufficient to sup-ply their absolute needs. All Latter-day Saints should be encouraged to cultivate the spirit and practice of tithe paying when conditions are such that they are able to earn.

1944 you start to see comments on paying the lord first. This is specifically meant to curb the practice of deducting taxes and living expenses (farmers are still allowed to deduct their operating expenses) - LeGrand Richards, Conference Report, April 1944, p.45.

Excerpt from the LDS 1968 General Handbook of Instruction:

Who Should Pay Tithing
Church members should pay one-tenth of their interest (income) annually into the tithing funds of the Church.

Those without income (including wives who have no separate income from their husbands) , and those entirely dependent on relief, are exempt from the payment of tithing.

Missionaries on full-time missions are not required to pay tithing on money received from their families or others for their support. Additional personal income should be tithed.

1970 – Joseph Fielding Smith sends a letter defining ‘interest’ as ‘income’ to all Bishops, Stake and Mission Presidents.

On March 19, 1970, the First Presidency sent the following letter to presidents of stakes and missions, bishops of wards, and presidents of branches in answer to the question, “What is a proper tithe?”

“For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.”

The last sentence is left out of the modern handbook and all church public statements on tithing.

Excerpt from the LDS 2010 General Handbook of Instruction:

Who Should Pay Tithing
All members who have income should pay tithing, with the following exceptions:

Members who are entirely dependent on Church Welfare assistance.

Full-time missionaries. (However, missionaries should pay tithing on personal income beyond the amount they receive for their support.)

[1] Stan Larson (editor), A Ministry of Meetings: The Apostolic diaries of Rudger Clawson, Signature Books in association with Smith Research Associates, Salt Lake City, 1993
I wish I would have known all those quotes when I was a member and the church didn't care that I was an impoverished sick single Mom with a special needs child the father had abandoned. Even though I was receiving help from the church to pay my bills and rent, the church made me pay tithing on that. So they literally made me write a check to reimburse them for 10% of what they helped me with. On top of that I had to pay on my child support which is legally not even my money it's my child's.

But then being treated this way in president Monson's Ward was the final straw for me. Building Elite-Zion from the blood of the poor, not caring for them.
🥺🤯😡😣 I am so sorry

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ransomme
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by ransomme »

Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 2:10 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:52 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:39 pm
ransomme wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:22 pm

Huntsman, Marriot and Romney must pay a lot of tithing.... ha ha ha

And I guess the widow with the mite is just unbelieving.
I don't actually know if they pay any tithing.
I am telling you the truth, this is what I experienced.
Why would the widow be unbelieving?
The problem with your stated position is that there are many people who pay tithing who don't seem to benefit in this way, who don't have enough to get by, and who can't afford to pay their bills etc. And conversely there are many people who are very wealthy and have never paid a penny in tithing.
To link tithing to financial success is an example of the prosperity gospel and is not of God.
Well, during the time I was paying tithing, for nine years of that, I was on food stamps and I think they called it wika. That might not be considered financial success, but I was enlisted in the military. We got by. It never occurred to me that struggling while paying tithing means that tithing is ineffective. I always felt and still feel blessed because of being tithed. I pay just over 10% of all my income so I can make certain I don't pay less. We have never been wealthy, but I am certainly not worried about anything and haven't been for quite a while.
on gross or net?

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Craig Johnson
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Posts: 1991
Location: Washington State.

Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Craig Johnson »

ransomme wrote: December 28th, 2022, 3:12 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 2:10 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:52 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:39 pm

I don't actually know if they pay any tithing.
I am telling you the truth, this is what I experienced.
Why would the widow be unbelieving?
The problem with your stated position is that there are many people who pay tithing who don't seem to benefit in this way, who don't have enough to get by, and who can't afford to pay their bills etc. And conversely there are many people who are very wealthy and have never paid a penny in tithing.
To link tithing to financial success is an example of the prosperity gospel and is not of God.
Well, during the time I was paying tithing, for nine years of that, I was on food stamps and I think they called it wika. That might not be considered financial success, but I was enlisted in the military. We got by. It never occurred to me that struggling while paying tithing means that tithing is ineffective. I always felt and still feel blessed because of being tithed. I pay just over 10% of all my income so I can make certain I don't pay less. We have never been wealthy, but I am certainly not worried about anything and haven't been for quite a while.
on gross or net?
Gross, although I do not tithe myself twice on money I invest, just on the profit. E.G. if I buy something for $200 and sell it for $250 I pay $5, because I already tithed on the $200. That's the way I do it and I will always do it that way.

Serragon
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Serragon »

Simply follow the Lord's instructions in D&C 119.

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ransomme
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by ransomme »

Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 3:21 pm
ransomme wrote: December 28th, 2022, 3:12 pm
Craig Johnson wrote: December 28th, 2022, 2:10 pm
Robin Hood wrote: December 28th, 2022, 1:52 pm

The problem with your stated position is that there are many people who pay tithing who don't seem to benefit in this way, who don't have enough to get by, and who can't afford to pay their bills etc. And conversely there are many people who are very wealthy and have never paid a penny in tithing.
To link tithing to financial success is an example of the prosperity gospel and is not of God.
Well, during the time I was paying tithing, for nine years of that, I was on food stamps and I think they called it wika. That might not be considered financial success, but I was enlisted in the military. We got by. It never occurred to me that struggling while paying tithing means that tithing is ineffective. I always felt and still feel blessed because of being tithed. I pay just over 10% of all my income so I can make certain I don't pay less. We have never been wealthy, but I am certainly not worried about anything and haven't been for quite a while.
on gross or net?
Gross, although I do not tithe myself twice on money I invest, just on the profit. E.G. if I buy something for $200 and sell it for $250 I pay $5, because I already tithed on the $200. That's the way I do it and I will always do it that way.
Good that you could do that. Not everyone has that luxury. I must have done something wrong when I faithfully paid tithing no matter how poor I was (literally, living mostly off of free bread + milk & eggs, potatoes & rice for years) but must have received other blessings.

I think that you are actually experiencing confirmation bias. Many people have received those same "blessings" and more without doing anything "righteous". It seems prideful that your righteous actions brought you blessings.

What's more, especially since you are not giving your tithing to the poor, how many are denied the blessing of themselves giving and administering to the poor? They lose out on experiences that will help them be born again, to love their God and their neighbor. To become Godly, to become Zion. Tithing as currently instituted robs God and his children of spiritual blessings while enriching the Corporation of the President. And to what end? The Corporation of the President is lucky to give a tenth of a tenth to the poor of its "tithing" revenue.

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Reluctant Watchman
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Re: Tithe the Poor

Post by Reluctant Watchman »

The contradictions between what the scriptures and early church leaders teach, and what is taught today, is astounding.

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