My parents are driving me from the faith I once loved.

[LDS Watchman]

The believing members of the Lord's church are not laughing at and mocking those who are trying to press forward on the straight and narrow path.

Wow. Bold claim. That's a pretty big rock you've been under, or maybe you've just got some of these on:

Are you trying to prove my point?

What did I say that was inaccurate? You are either under or a rock or have intentional blinders on to only see what you want. I can go back and find all of the messages from my "believing" family members that are pretty nasty. Or my old bishop who told me I have no life experience. Or the supposed church history buff who claimed I'm going to Hell and look at pornography. Or several of my missionary friends, you know... the representatives of Christ, who have said some crappy things to me. All because I'm sharing ideas and teachings in the scriptures that contradict the beliefs they've held onto their entire lives. Stepped right on the sacred cow, and it shows.

No, the "believing" members are worse than mocking at times.

Your description of this supposed mocking is pretty vague and we also only have your side of the story. It doesn't sound like mocking to me. Maybe people were a little harsh when you attacked the things they believe to be true, but that's not mocking.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Wow. Bold claim. That's a pretty big rock you've been under, or maybe you've just got some of these on:

Are you trying to prove my point?

What did I say that was inaccurate? You are either under or a rock or have intentional blinders on to only see what you want. I can go back and find all of the messages from my "believing" family members that are pretty nasty. Or my old bishop who told me I have no life experience. Or the supposed church history buff who claimed I'm going to Hell and look at pornography. Or several of my missionary friends, you know... the representatives of Christ, who have said some crappy things to me. All because I'm sharing ideas and teachings in the scriptures that contradict the beliefs they've held onto their entire lives. Stepped right on the sacred cow, and it shows.

No, the "believing" members are worse than mocking at times.

Your description of this supposed mocking is pretty vague and we also only have your side of the story. It doesn't sound like mocking to me. Maybe people were a little harsh when you attacked the things they believe to be true, but that's not mocking.

No, because Atticus can never be wrong.

It all comes back to this.

[LDS Watchman]

Are you trying to prove my point?

What did I say that was inaccurate? You are either under or a rock or have intentional blinders on to only see what you want. I can go back and find all of the messages from my "believing" family members that are pretty nasty. Or my old bishop who told me I have no life experience. Or the supposed church history buff who claimed I'm going to Hell and look at pornography. Or several of my missionary friends, you know... the representatives of Christ, who have said some crappy things to me. All because I'm sharing ideas and teachings in the scriptures that contradict the beliefs they've held onto their entire lives. Stepped right on the sacred cow, and it shows.

No, the "believing" members are worse than mocking at times.

Your description of this supposed mocking is pretty vague and we also only have your side of the story. It doesn't sound like mocking to me. Maybe people were a little harsh when you attacked the things they believe to be true, but that's not mocking.

No, because Atticus can never be wrong.

It all comes back to this.

No, this is not what it all comes back to. That's just a cop-out for not being able to back up your claims.

We both know that you can be very aggressive and accusatory towards the church and it's members. People aren't always going to react well to that, but that doesn't mean they're mocking you. If you want to see what true mocking looks like, look at what the ex-Mormons are saying about the members on reddit. You will sadly also find similar mocking by some individuals on this forum.

[Gadianton Slayer]

What did I say that was inaccurate? You are either under or a rock or have intentional blinders on to only see what you want. I can go back and find all of the messages from my "believing" family members that are pretty nasty. Or my old bishop who told me I have no life experience. Or the supposed church history buff who claimed I'm going to Hell and look at pornography. Or several of my missionary friends, you know... the representatives of Christ, who have said some crappy things to me. All because I'm sharing ideas and teachings in the scriptures that contradict the beliefs they've held onto their entire lives. Stepped right on the sacred cow, and it shows.

No, the "believing" members are worse than mocking at times.

Your description of this supposed mocking is pretty vague and we also only have your side of the story. It doesn't sound like mocking to me. Maybe people were a little harsh when you attacked the things they believe to be true, but that's not mocking.

No, because Atticus can never be wrong.

It all comes back to this.

No, this is not what it all comes back to. That's just a cop-out for not being able to back up your claims.

We both know that you can be very aggressive and accusatory towards the church and it's members. People aren't always going to react well to that, but that doesn't mean they're mocking you. If you want to see what true mocking looks like, look at what the ex-Mormons are saying about the members on reddit. You will sadly also find similar mocking by some individuals on this forum.

My forum persona and discussion doesn’t match what my family sees. If I cared, I could screenshot those conversations. My old bishop was a big one, I had several people call me to ask what the hell that was all about. He went off on me, all I did was share a conference talk and say: “do any of you agree with this?” Shared a scripture from Christ that said the opposite, and boom.

It’s not accurate to say members are not guilty of this, dude. Keep your head in the sand if you disagree.

[LDS Watchman]

Your description of this supposed mocking is pretty vague and we also only have your side of the story. It doesn't sound like mocking to me. Maybe people were a little harsh when you attacked the things they believe to be true, but that's not mocking.

No, because Atticus can never be wrong.

It all comes back to this.

No, this is not what it all comes back to. That's just a cop-out for not being able to back up your claims.

We both know that you can be very aggressive and accusatory towards the church and it's members. People aren't always going to react well to that, but that doesn't mean they're mocking you. If you want to see what true mocking looks like, look at what the ex-Mormons are saying about the members on reddit. You will sadly also find similar mocking by some individuals on this forum.

My forum persona and discussion doesn’t match what my family sees. If I cared, I could screenshot those conversations. My old bishop was a big one, I had several people call me to ask what the hell that was all about. He went off on me, all I did was share a conference talk and say: “do any of you agree with this?” Shared a scripture from Christ that said the opposite, and boom.

It’s not accurate to say members are not guilty of this, dude. Keep your head in the sand if you disagree.

Again, we only have your side of the story. The members aren't perfect. Members are guilty of all sorts of things. But by and large the believing members are not mocking people for trying to follow the straight and narrow path.

On the other hand, they are constantly being openly mocked on ex-Mormon forums and even on this supposedly LDS friendly discussion forum.

[LDS Watchman]

Read what it says about the people in the building. What are the people in the building doing?

They are laughing and mocking, it is a course of the world. What is the church today, of god or the world?

Almost all of the talks in last conference pointed to Nelson, they pointed very little to the lord. Reminds me of the Catholics, you get to the lord through Nelson. What did Paul say?

1 Cor 1
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

I just wish they would speak of our lord and savior, they don’t need to tell people what Nelson did to show us that he is OMAS. Abraham Lincoln didn’t introduce himself as “honest Abe”

The believing members of the Lord's church are not laughing at and mocking those who are trying to press forward on the straight and narrow path.

But they are certainly being laughed at and mocked by many.

I am sorry, but many are. I grew up in Salt Lake City. I know that there are many members who mock those who are humble and trying to do the Lord's will. Specially if they're not wealthy or come from connected families. Our church is filled with vanity and unbelief.

Can you please provide some examples of the supposed mocking you are referring to?

[John Tavner]

They are laughing and mocking, it is a course of the world. What is the church today, of god or the world?

Almost all of the talks in last conference pointed to Nelson, they pointed very little to the lord. Reminds me of the Catholics, you get to the lord through Nelson. What did Paul say?

1 Cor 1
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

I just wish they would speak of our lord and savior, they don’t need to tell people what Nelson did to show us that he is OMAS. Abraham Lincoln didn’t introduce himself as “honest Abe”

The believing members of the Lord's church are not laughing at and mocking those who are trying to press forward on the straight and narrow path.

But they are certainly being laughed at and mocked by many.

I am sorry, but many are. I grew up in Salt Lake City. I know that there are many members who mock those who are humble and trying to do the Lord's will. Specially if they're not wealthy or come from connected families. Our church is filled with vanity and unbelief.

Can you please provide some examples of the supposed mocking you are referring to?

I'll give some it isn't just for the church though, it is found in the church - Mocking for not watching TV or Movies, or listening to modern music, not playing video games, mocking for leaving a movie, or for walking away from something uncomfortable to them and the opposite - mocking because they walked away, mocking naivety, mocking someone because they wear church clothing all sunday, mocking someone because they don't wear church clothing all sunday, Mocking someone because they don't go to church, mocking someone because they do go to church, mocking someone for being a Peter Priesthood, or mocking somone for not being a "peter priesthood" or a MOlly mormon etc... Mocking someone because they like the Bible more than the BoM or because they like the BoM more than the Book of Mormon, Mocking someone for not drinking caffeine, mocking someone because they do drink caffeine, mocking because of not eating meat, mocking because they do eat meat, mocking because they don't eat sugar, mocking because they do eat sugar, mocking because someone doesn't have nice clothes, mocking because they do have nice clothes, mocking because of the car they drive or the house they live in, mocking them because of their jobs, mocking somoene because they are awkward. The list goes on. You might say "those aren't really following the LOrd type of htings' and I'll reply "how do you know, why don't we let them follow their conscience and not mock them if they are sincerely trying to seek Him and "not watch TV" if that helps them"

We are terrible Christians... in fact most people who claim to be Christian are terrible Christians, which is why God said "upon my house it will begin - first among those who claim to bear my name." Perhaps it would be good for us to all read Alma 5, repent and refocus on the Lord rather than looking around at everyone around us and deriding them because of all the straws in their eyes when we have logs in our own eyes. We all need to turn to God more (repent) we all need to forgive more and most of all we all need to start sharing the Glory of hte the Lord more (glory means His presence) If we aren't sharing His presence and His weight, we aren't really bearing His name.

[1775peasant]

ur repetitive tunnel vision questioning of GS and insinuating he’s making something up that has been witnessed by each & every intellectually honest member is a form of mocking him, to which u are most likely conveniently unaware….

u are illustrating his accusations of being “mocked” to a “T”

[Iceberg]

The believing members of the Lord's church are not laughing at and mocking those who are trying to press forward on the straight and narrow path.

Wow. Bold claim. That's a pretty big rock you've been under, or maybe you've just got some of these on:

Are you trying to prove my point?

What did I say that was inaccurate? You are either under or a rock or have intentional blinders on to only see what you want. I can go back and find all of the messages from my "believing" family members that are pretty nasty. Or my old bishop who told me I have no life experience. Or the supposed church history buff who claimed I'm going to Hell and look at pornography. Or several of my missionary friends, you know... the representatives of Christ, who have said some crappy things to me. All because I'm sharing ideas and teachings in the scriptures that contradict the beliefs they've held onto their entire lives. Stepped right on the sacred cow, and it shows.

No, the "believing" members are worse than mocking at times.

I am sorry you have been treated so harshly. I do admire your courage sticking up for what you believe.

[Bronco73idi]

They are laughing and mocking, it is a course of the world. What is the church today, of god or the world?

Almost all of the talks in last conference pointed to Nelson, they pointed very little to the lord. Reminds me of the Catholics, you get to the lord through Nelson. What did Paul say?

1 Cor 1
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

I just wish they would speak of our lord and savior, they don’t need to tell people what Nelson did to show us that he is OMAS. Abraham Lincoln didn’t introduce himself as “honest Abe”

The believing members of the Lord's church are not laughing at and mocking those who are trying to press forward on the straight and narrow path.

But they are certainly being laughed at and mocked by many.

Your words are mocking me, I go to the LDS church still. I think most people are clueless to what they are really saying or reading. Isaiah and the lord said our leaders where going to fail. The lord didn’t agree with the ones who ran the temple but he still went. We should strive to be dirt, moveable and moldable

How were my words mocking you?

I’m not being laughed at or mocked, that implies I’m a non believing member per your words. When the Pharisees mocked or question the lord he replied many times “ye hypocrites”. We should be more like the lord, I have no problem saying ye hypocrite to someone.

If they don’t question me directly I have no reason to care about what they say or do.

[Gadianton Slayer]

No, because Atticus can never be wrong.

It all comes back to this.

No, this is not what it all comes back to. That's just a cop-out for not being able to back up your claims.

We both know that you can be very aggressive and accusatory towards the church and it's members. People aren't always going to react well to that, but that doesn't mean they're mocking you. If you want to see what true mocking looks like, look at what the ex-Mormons are saying about the members on reddit. You will sadly also find similar mocking by some individuals on this forum.

My forum persona and discussion doesn’t match what my family sees. If I cared, I could screenshot those conversations. My old bishop was a big one, I had several people call me to ask what the hell that was all about. He went off on me, all I did was share a conference talk and say: “do any of you agree with this?” Shared a scripture from Christ that said the opposite, and boom.

It’s not accurate to say members are not guilty of this, dude. Keep your head in the sand if you disagree.

Again, we only have your side of the story. The members aren't perfect. Members are guilty of all sorts of things. But by and large the believing members are not mocking people for trying to follow the straight and narrow path.

On the other hand, they are constantly being openly mocked on ex-Mormon forums and even on this supposedly LDS friendly discussion forum.

Good to hear your opinion from your side of the planet, it’s not the same everywhere.

[Gadianton Slayer]

Wow. Bold claim. That's a pretty big rock you've been under, or maybe you've just got some of these on:

Are you trying to prove my point?

What did I say that was inaccurate? You are either under or a rock or have intentional blinders on to only see what you want. I can go back and find all of the messages from my "believing" family members that are pretty nasty. Or my old bishop who told me I have no life experience. Or the supposed church history buff who claimed I'm going to Hell and look at pornography. Or several of my missionary friends, you know... the representatives of Christ, who have said some crappy things to me. All because I'm sharing ideas and teachings in the scriptures that contradict the beliefs they've held onto their entire lives. Stepped right on the sacred cow, and it shows.

No, the "believing" members are worse than mocking at times.

I am sorry you have been treated so harshly. I do admire your courage sticking up for what you believe.

Thank you

It was really difficult when I first got sent home, but since then I’ve been able to meet some wonderful people and figured out who’s opinions really matter.

Spoiler: it’s never those who hate.

[BroJones]

As I listen to general conference, I listen also to the spirit of the Lord, What it is that I should do. Same when I'm reading the book of mormon or other scriptures. There are many times in general conference when I have felt confirmation confirmation or nudges the spirit of the Lord. Frankly the letter letter by the 1st presidency regarding masks and jabs last July 12th left me feeling odd... I did not feel the confirming Spirit for some things said there. So I made it a matter of prayer even fasting.
I have felt to simply wait. I believe answers will come in the next several months. Patience.

[HVDC]

Seven years ago, I became aware that the great and spacious building was the Church Office Building.

And that the mockers were Church members.

The people being mocked were members and others who would have joined the Church.

I told a good friend of mine about my conclusion who was in the HC.

He was shocked.

I was too.

Couldn't believe I said that out aloud.

Nothing happened because he was and still is a good friend.

Times have changed.

Now more people know what I meant.

Because it's become obvious.

Hold fast, we're in for a ride.

Sir H

[BuriedTartaria]

No, because Atticus can never be wrong.

It all comes back to this.

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's kingdom on earth and will never be led astray because look at these statements from leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

prophets, seers and revelators

[Gadianton Slayer]

No, because Atticus can never be wrong.

It all comes back to this.

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's kingdom on earth and will never be led astray because look at these statements from leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

prophets, seers and revelators

It brings a tear of joy to my eye, seeing such a wonderful display of prophetic ability

[farmerchick]

Take what's good and leave the rest...i would caution anyone who has or will throw away the church/faith/gospel....(what ever your definition is)....purpose, direction, light and inspiration is a bad thing to lose. Living the principles of the gospel provides an unseen hedge of protection around you that is multi dimensional and layered like an onion......hard luck seems to follow those who once had light and then somehow either STOPPED CULTIVATING IT, gave it away or lost it. I personally don't like hard luck...... learning lessons over and over again like I have done in the past as I shunned the hedge of protection for a "better easier way", is not a great time.....js...... Honor your parents by living your best life according to you....worrying about the church history aspect of things is sure to be confusing and not very productive as it relates to your own personal growth......surround yourself with good people, work hard and be your own person and above all have joy in the journey........ Best of luck to the OP.

[Reluctant Watchman]

I don't know, you tell me Lord Atticus. For some reason, many of the Saints have also lost their sense of humor.

What are the people in the building doing Reluctant?

They are being reluctant? Oh, they are mocking God by distorting His doctrine. Gotcha. Glad we got that cleared up. Thanks Atti.

No Reluctant, it doesn't say the people in the building are mocking God. Who does it say they are mocking?

Who... let the dogs out? I think it's cool that you consider yourself as one of the humble and penitent followers along the path of the iron rod, quietly sitting by the tree of life, taking the mocking and scorn from the building.

[Baurak Ale]

What are the people in the building doing Reluctant?

They are being reluctant? Oh, they are mocking God by distorting His doctrine. Gotcha. Glad we got that cleared up. Thanks Atti.

No Reluctant, it doesn't say the people in the building are mocking God. Who does it say they are mocking?

Who... let the dogs out? I think it's cool that you consider yourself as one of the humble and penitent followers along the path of the iron rod, quietly sitting by the tree of life, taking the mocking and scorn from the building.

The question should be: since the "great" and "spacious" (היכל hekhal) building Lehi saw was likely the temple of Solomon, the priests therein being required to wear "fine" clothing (see Exo. 28:39), what does it represent today?

I think it is too simplistic and rudimentary to reduce it to being just the ignorant revelers of the world. Christ ate with them. But he detested the hypocrites of his religion who, scripturally, are the ones who mocked him in the flesh. I think the lesson is that when the power and spirit of God are ushered out of even the holiest buildings, all that is left is a great and spacious building. Or to put it another way, when the pearl is removed from the ornate box, and when people ogle over the ornate box, all you have is the semblance of value.

[Hiphopopotamus]

The gospel was such a simple, elegant and beautiful thing to me. Christ came to earth, established His church, taught principles and doctrines that will lead us to a path of happiness both in this life and the next. People rejected him, he died for our sins to pay the price that we couldn't. Joseph Smith came and reorganized His church with prophets apostles, evangelists, etc... to lead and guide us. If we repent, are baptized, and endure to end (heed to the teaching of prophets both modern and old), we will be saved. Simple. Obviously it sounds simple, but it's not an easy feat in this life, and we've all stumbled, but we can repent and get back on the correct path.

Now, I came back from my mission 1.5 years ago now. I came home early because of Covid-19. My parents had been studying a lot while I was gone, and nowadays I come to find out that those simple things I was taught are a lot more complex and or completely false.

To start off. The vaccine has been a huge discussion in our household. I still haven't been vaccinated, but with mandates on the rise, and what I feel is a life to live with jobs, college, travel, etc... I may be too worldly or something, but I've liked the life I've lived, and I hate the feeling of not doing what I love to do in life... I feel trapped in a sense. I've never been a partier or anything, I just wanna work.

On one hand, the vaccine to me seems like an okay thing. I had to get like 5 vaccinations to travel to my mission... I never got sick on my mission. On the other hand though, I'm learning that the vaccine is being tested on fetal cells from an aborted baby from 40 years ago (which personally I hate, there has to be a better way to get those cells for testing) and that the vaccine is the mark of the beast. Which doctrinally I disagree on. I believe the mark of the beast, a mark placed on the hand and forehead, to be a direct callback to the SHEMA, which is a prayer of allegiance to God... whereas the mark of the beast would be essentially the anti-Shema, something that declares allegiance to the devil. Which personally I don't believe those who are taking the vaccine are declaring allegiance to the devil. Now I won't discredit the fact that there's a lot of places closing and potentially there could be a time when you couldn't buy or sell without a vaccine, which could tie to being the mark of the beast, but I've yet to see this manifest completely... maybe in terms of travel and now with finding jobs... but can anyone explain to me why taking a vaccine would be declaring allegiance to the devil if my thoughts and actions are essentially the same before and after taking the vaccine?

Now this brings me onto the next conflict in my family. The prophets and apostles of these latter days are false. Now this doubt of course came about in our family once the prophet declared the vaccine to be safe & effective... but now we've gone down a rabbit hole of sorts now learning that Brigham Young potentially killed Joseph Smith in order for polygamy to stay around & to take control of the church. Like, what?! I can't wrap my mind around this logic yet. For starters, what about the witness statements attesting to the fact that liberty jail had been raided and non-lds people attested to that fact (https://famous-trials.com/carthrage/1262-home). My question in this case has been, what did Brigham Young have to gain? Also, if this is the case, why has the church been so prosperous... why has the Lord allowed such a church, that would kill His prophet to remain & thrive on earth. One could argue about the Catholic Church, and how it has prospered... so I don't know.

This also brings up, what doctrines in the church are true or false at this point. The church has had control of pretty much every conceivable document since the death of Joseph Smith... if they wanted to change something, they could and we'd pretty much be none the wiser. Are temple ordinances even real? Where are the falsities there? Why do I feel the spirit at church or in the Temple if it was supposedly built by false teachers?

I taught a lot of people on my mission, and those who came to church, always felt a difference from other churches.

Nowadays my parents are basically saying to rely on themselves to be their own prophets... which sure, I believe is partly true. But also, isn't this how the confusion of doctrines was started in the first place? Some people say something here, others have a different opinion there... eventually it leads to chaos, just like what Joseph Smith was facing in his day.

The other question here is, all of the prophets and apostles I feel have nothing to gain. Most of them made a ton of money before they were apostles, and I believe the job of an apostle to be pretty hectic. They are each responsible for parts of the earth, to make sure the missions are running well, the stakes are thriving, that the church is growing... to what gain would they have to lie until their grave about the fact that they're apostles and prophets? Sure, we've been warned about false teachers in these last days, and I firmly believe that we should pray about anything the prophets and apostles say... but for the most part of my life, it's always been confirmations that the words they speak are true. So, now that they talk about a vaccine, everything they've said in the past is discredited?

I could keep going on and on here about just how confused I am about this all. In the end, I believe in Jesus Christ. He's the one that can change our thoughts and actions. He's the only to which salvation comes. I believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints to be His church on earth... is it perfect? No. Are the people in it perfect? No. But I believe the teachings and gospel principles that it has taught me throughout my life to have completely made me into the man I am today. I've been atheist in the past... it all just seems much simpler, but it never brought me joy. Now I see my parents discrediting and taking the testimony of things that brought me joy in my life... and it just hurts.

Any thoughts would be welcomed wholeheartedly. I'm just here to learn. Thanks!

You probably do not need to over think it. You read the Book of Mormon and believe that it is true. The book is more complex than a farm boy could write. There is nothing that leads you away from Christ. It is a good book. Together with the Bible, a person could study for a hundred years and never understand it all. Your body has a built-in truth meter. After you read for a while, you see things that are not spelled out, but they are there anyway. They add to your understanding.

People lie, cheat, and steal. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes on accident. When you make a serious attempt to understand the scriptures and to live a life that God approves of, your ability to discern truth increases. One of the hazards of digging too deep, is that you can get side tracked on a tangent, that may have no actual significance, even though it seems to.

We have all been around people that are highly spiritual. We have also been around people that are evil. What would Jesus do? can be helpful to think about.

How many preachers are sure they have it right, but do not? Often, they have found some truth, but overlook other truth. One must seek truth, wherever it is.

Once your foundation of truth is established, you can measure possible truths against what you already know to be true. You can not trust anyone's opinion just because they have man made credentials. Every reporter on earth lies if s/he says we are experiencing a pandemic. A total lie. No truth to it whatsoever. Every doctor on earth lies if s/he says that Ivermectin does not stop covid. Any person that says masks are effective in stopping covid is a liar. Any person that says the covid shots are either safe or effective is a liar. It is not even possible that I am wrong on this.

So when a person lies to you, and you know for a fact it is a lie, even if they tell you God told them to lie, you have to analyze their motives. There sure are a lot of incredibly stupid parents out there. Being a parent does not make one right. There sure are a lot of evil preachers that do evil on purpose in order to deceive. Being a preacher does not make one correct.

So, when a person of supposed authority lies to you, and it is an obvious lie, an easily proved lie, and wants you to trust him in his lie based on his reputation, like RMN calling satan's juice a godsend, then you know he is a liar, that he does NOT represent God, that his purpose is deception, then you know he is a disciple of satan and not God. Once you know this, you have no need to ever believe a single thing he says. Once a person is a proven liar, doing so on purpose with the intent to deceive, remove yourself from their influence, no matter who they are.

Here is the thing about the scriptures. They can be your rock. Because even if there is a mistake, it is still the best way to live. It is the correct way to believe, and to live, and to determine truth. So when a person claims to be a prophet, yet tells you something completely contrary to the scriptures, you need not waste any time with the prick. God is not going to punish you for following His word and living according to it.

So then, all you have to do is discard the rubbish that people attempt to force on you. If a doctor tells you to get a shot so your neighbor won't get sick, you can instantly know for certain that he is an evil liar that intends to do you harm. Same thing if he claims to be a prophet instead of a doctor. Just say "It is unfortunate that you are so incredibly stupid. Fortunately, I am not. Therefore, never contact me again for as long as you live. I have no need of liars in my life."

Then it is a walk in the park. You can surround yourself with good people or bad people. Success is a choice. If someone tells you that you have to risk your life and get a shot with no known benefit, just say no and be glad that you are not that stupid. Money is far too easy to earn to work for someone that would just as soon kill you.

Fear not!

What if what the prophet tells you doesn't match up with the scriptures but they tell you they've had new revelation and now your temple worthiness is based on it? (Lookin at you word of wisdom and tithing)

[Gadianton Slayer]

The gospel was such a simple, elegant and beautiful thing to me. Christ came to earth, established His church, taught principles and doctrines that will lead us to a path of happiness both in this life and the next. People rejected him, he died for our sins to pay the price that we couldn't. Joseph Smith came and reorganized His church with prophets apostles, evangelists, etc... to lead and guide us. If we repent, are baptized, and endure to end (heed to the teaching of prophets both modern and old), we will be saved. Simple. Obviously it sounds simple, but it's not an easy feat in this life, and we've all stumbled, but we can repent and get back on the correct path.

Now, I came back from my mission 1.5 years ago now. I came home early because of Covid-19. My parents had been studying a lot while I was gone, and nowadays I come to find out that those simple things I was taught are a lot more complex and or completely false.

To start off. The vaccine has been a huge discussion in our household. I still haven't been vaccinated, but with mandates on the rise, and what I feel is a life to live with jobs, college, travel, etc... I may be too worldly or something, but I've liked the life I've lived, and I hate the feeling of not doing what I love to do in life... I feel trapped in a sense. I've never been a partier or anything, I just wanna work.

On one hand, the vaccine to me seems like an okay thing. I had to get like 5 vaccinations to travel to my mission... I never got sick on my mission. On the other hand though, I'm learning that the vaccine is being tested on fetal cells from an aborted baby from 40 years ago (which personally I hate, there has to be a better way to get those cells for testing) and that the vaccine is the mark of the beast. Which doctrinally I disagree on. I believe the mark of the beast, a mark placed on the hand and forehead, to be a direct callback to the SHEMA, which is a prayer of allegiance to God... whereas the mark of the beast would be essentially the anti-Shema, something that declares allegiance to the devil. Which personally I don't believe those who are taking the vaccine are declaring allegiance to the devil. Now I won't discredit the fact that there's a lot of places closing and potentially there could be a time when you couldn't buy or sell without a vaccine, which could tie to being the mark of the beast, but I've yet to see this manifest completely... maybe in terms of travel and now with finding jobs... but can anyone explain to me why taking a vaccine would be declaring allegiance to the devil if my thoughts and actions are essentially the same before and after taking the vaccine?

Now this brings me onto the next conflict in my family. The prophets and apostles of these latter days are false. Now this doubt of course came about in our family once the prophet declared the vaccine to be safe & effective... but now we've gone down a rabbit hole of sorts now learning that Brigham Young potentially killed Joseph Smith in order for polygamy to stay around & to take control of the church. Like, what?! I can't wrap my mind around this logic yet. For starters, what about the witness statements attesting to the fact that liberty jail had been raided and non-lds people attested to that fact (https://famous-trials.com/carthrage/1262-home). My question in this case has been, what did Brigham Young have to gain? Also, if this is the case, why has the church been so prosperous... why has the Lord allowed such a church, that would kill His prophet to remain & thrive on earth. One could argue about the Catholic Church, and how it has prospered... so I don't know.

This also brings up, what doctrines in the church are true or false at this point. The church has had control of pretty much every conceivable document since the death of Joseph Smith... if they wanted to change something, they could and we'd pretty much be none the wiser. Are temple ordinances even real? Where are the falsities there? Why do I feel the spirit at church or in the Temple if it was supposedly built by false teachers?

I taught a lot of people on my mission, and those who came to church, always felt a difference from other churches.

Nowadays my parents are basically saying to rely on themselves to be their own prophets... which sure, I believe is partly true. But also, isn't this how the confusion of doctrines was started in the first place? Some people say something here, others have a different opinion there... eventually it leads to chaos, just like what Joseph Smith was facing in his day.

The other question here is, all of the prophets and apostles I feel have nothing to gain. Most of them made a ton of money before they were apostles, and I believe the job of an apostle to be pretty hectic. They are each responsible for parts of the earth, to make sure the missions are running well, the stakes are thriving, that the church is growing... to what gain would they have to lie until their grave about the fact that they're apostles and prophets? Sure, we've been warned about false teachers in these last days, and I firmly believe that we should pray about anything the prophets and apostles say... but for the most part of my life, it's always been confirmations that the words they speak are true. So, now that they talk about a vaccine, everything they've said in the past is discredited?

I could keep going on and on here about just how confused I am about this all. In the end, I believe in Jesus Christ. He's the one that can change our thoughts and actions. He's the only to which salvation comes. I believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints to be His church on earth... is it perfect? No. Are the people in it perfect? No. But I believe the teachings and gospel principles that it has taught me throughout my life to have completely made me into the man I am today. I've been atheist in the past... it all just seems much simpler, but it never brought me joy. Now I see my parents discrediting and taking the testimony of things that brought me joy in my life... and it just hurts.

Any thoughts would be welcomed wholeheartedly. I'm just here to learn. Thanks!

You probably do not need to over think it. You read the Book of Mormon and believe that it is true. The book is more complex than a farm boy could write. There is nothing that leads you away from Christ. It is a good book. Together with the Bible, a person could study for a hundred years and never understand it all. Your body has a built-in truth meter. After you read for a while, you see things that are not spelled out, but they are there anyway. They add to your understanding.

People lie, cheat, and steal. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes on accident. When you make a serious attempt to understand the scriptures and to live a life that God approves of, your ability to discern truth increases. One of the hazards of digging too deep, is that you can get side tracked on a tangent, that may have no actual significance, even though it seems to.

We have all been around people that are highly spiritual. We have also been around people that are evil. What would Jesus do? can be helpful to think about.

How many preachers are sure they have it right, but do not? Often, they have found some truth, but overlook other truth. One must seek truth, wherever it is.

Once your foundation of truth is established, you can measure possible truths against what you already know to be true. You can not trust anyone's opinion just because they have man made credentials. Every reporter on earth lies if s/he says we are experiencing a pandemic. A total lie. No truth to it whatsoever. Every doctor on earth lies if s/he says that Ivermectin does not stop covid. Any person that says masks are effective in stopping covid is a liar. Any person that says the covid shots are either safe or effective is a liar. It is not even possible that I am wrong on this.

So when a person lies to you, and you know for a fact it is a lie, even if they tell you God told them to lie, you have to analyze their motives. There sure are a lot of incredibly stupid parents out there. Being a parent does not make one right. There sure are a lot of evil preachers that do evil on purpose in order to deceive. Being a preacher does not make one correct.

So, when a person of supposed authority lies to you, and it is an obvious lie, an easily proved lie, and wants you to trust him in his lie based on his reputation, like RMN calling satan's juice a godsend, then you know he is a liar, that he does NOT represent God, that his purpose is deception, then you know he is a disciple of satan and not God. Once you know this, you have no need to ever believe a single thing he says. Once a person is a proven liar, doing so on purpose with the intent to deceive, remove yourself from their influence, no matter who they are.

Here is the thing about the scriptures. They can be your rock. Because even if there is a mistake, it is still the best way to live. It is the correct way to believe, and to live, and to determine truth. So when a person claims to be a prophet, yet tells you something completely contrary to the scriptures, you need not waste any time with the prick. God is not going to punish you for following His word and living according to it.

So then, all you have to do is discard the rubbish that people attempt to force on you. If a doctor tells you to get a shot so your neighbor won't get sick, you can instantly know for certain that he is an evil liar that intends to do you harm. Same thing if he claims to be a prophet instead of a doctor. Just say "It is unfortunate that you are so incredibly stupid. Fortunately, I am not. Therefore, never contact me again for as long as you live. I have no need of liars in my life."

Then it is a walk in the park. You can surround yourself with good people or bad people. Success is a choice. If someone tells you that you have to risk your life and get a shot with no known benefit, just say no and be glad that you are not that stupid. Money is far too easy to earn to work for someone that would just as soon kill you.

Fear not!

What if what the prophet tells you doesn't match up with the scriptures but they tell you they've had new revelation and now your temple worthiness is based on it? (Lookin at you word of wisdom and tithing)

Then you may have an unpleasant conversation with your stake president.

Funny how people still try to justify the WoW being a commandment... ya know, even though D&C says that it’s not... but the prophet said so...

[djinwa]

Take what's good and leave the rest...i would caution anyone who has or will throw away the church/faith/gospel....(what ever your definition is)....purpose, direction, light and inspiration is a bad thing to lose. Living the principles of the gospel provides an unseen hedge of protection around you that is multi dimensional and layered like an onion......hard luck seems to follow those who once had light and then somehow either STOPPED CULTIVATING IT, gave it away or lost it. I personally don't like hard luck...... learning lessons over and over again like I have done in the past as I shunned the hedge of protection for a "better easier way", is not a great time.....js...... Honor your parents by living your best life according to you....worrying about the church history aspect of things is sure to be confusing and not very productive as it relates to your own personal growth......surround yourself with good people, work hard and be your own person and above all have joy in the journey........ Best of luck to the OP.

Depends on the person. I've had much better luck after going on my own, being free of guilt trips and constant feeling of falling short. And not having to make sense out of nonsense and no longer trying to figure out when the leaders are inspired and when they are not. Easier to figure things out on my own. I don't have to spend countless hours agonizing over the meaning of every verse in scripture as we see on this forum. I don't see why it needs to be so complicated.

One can live most of the gospel without sitting butt in pews and paying for church buildings and church investment portfolios. One can spend more time with family, and help neighbors and grow a garden, and live a clean life, and on and on. One can study wise words from all sources, can study principles of freedom, etc.

The problem the OP has is thinking. Best not to think in the church. Faith is not about thinking. With faith, you decide in advance what you want to believe, then select supporting evidence, and ignore the rest. Some people aren't very good at blocking out contrary evidence, and can become mentally ill if pressured to ignore it, as happens in the church.

[Fred]

The gospel was such a simple, elegant and beautiful thing to me. Christ came to earth, established His church, taught principles and doctrines that will lead us to a path of happiness both in this life and the next. People rejected him, he died for our sins to pay the price that we couldn't. Joseph Smith came and reorganized His church with prophets apostles, evangelists, etc... to lead and guide us. If we repent, are baptized, and endure to end (heed to the teaching of prophets both modern and old), we will be saved. Simple. Obviously it sounds simple, but it's not an easy feat in this life, and we've all stumbled, but we can repent and get back on the correct path.

Now, I came back from my mission 1.5 years ago now. I came home early because of Covid-19. My parents had been studying a lot while I was gone, and nowadays I come to find out that those simple things I was taught are a lot more complex and or completely false.

To start off. The vaccine has been a huge discussion in our household. I still haven't been vaccinated, but with mandates on the rise, and what I feel is a life to live with jobs, college, travel, etc... I may be too worldly or something, but I've liked the life I've lived, and I hate the feeling of not doing what I love to do in life... I feel trapped in a sense. I've never been a partier or anything, I just wanna work.

On one hand, the vaccine to me seems like an okay thing. I had to get like 5 vaccinations to travel to my mission... I never got sick on my mission. On the other hand though, I'm learning that the vaccine is being tested on fetal cells from an aborted baby from 40 years ago (which personally I hate, there has to be a better way to get those cells for testing) and that the vaccine is the mark of the beast. Which doctrinally I disagree on. I believe the mark of the beast, a mark placed on the hand and forehead, to be a direct callback to the SHEMA, which is a prayer of allegiance to God... whereas the mark of the beast would be essentially the anti-Shema, something that declares allegiance to the devil. Which personally I don't believe those who are taking the vaccine are declaring allegiance to the devil. Now I won't discredit the fact that there's a lot of places closing and potentially there could be a time when you couldn't buy or sell without a vaccine, which could tie to being the mark of the beast, but I've yet to see this manifest completely... maybe in terms of travel and now with finding jobs... but can anyone explain to me why taking a vaccine would be declaring allegiance to the devil if my thoughts and actions are essentially the same before and after taking the vaccine?

Now this brings me onto the next conflict in my family. The prophets and apostles of these latter days are false. Now this doubt of course came about in our family once the prophet declared the vaccine to be safe & effective... but now we've gone down a rabbit hole of sorts now learning that Brigham Young potentially killed Joseph Smith in order for polygamy to stay around & to take control of the church. Like, what?! I can't wrap my mind around this logic yet. For starters, what about the witness statements attesting to the fact that liberty jail had been raided and non-lds people attested to that fact (https://famous-trials.com/carthrage/1262-home). My question in this case has been, what did Brigham Young have to gain? Also, if this is the case, why has the church been so prosperous... why has the Lord allowed such a church, that would kill His prophet to remain & thrive on earth. One could argue about the Catholic Church, and how it has prospered... so I don't know.

This also brings up, what doctrines in the church are true or false at this point. The church has had control of pretty much every conceivable document since the death of Joseph Smith... if they wanted to change something, they could and we'd pretty much be none the wiser. Are temple ordinances even real? Where are the falsities there? Why do I feel the spirit at church or in the Temple if it was supposedly built by false teachers?

I taught a lot of people on my mission, and those who came to church, always felt a difference from other churches.

Nowadays my parents are basically saying to rely on themselves to be their own prophets... which sure, I believe is partly true. But also, isn't this how the confusion of doctrines was started in the first place? Some people say something here, others have a different opinion there... eventually it leads to chaos, just like what Joseph Smith was facing in his day.

The other question here is, all of the prophets and apostles I feel have nothing to gain. Most of them made a ton of money before they were apostles, and I believe the job of an apostle to be pretty hectic. They are each responsible for parts of the earth, to make sure the missions are running well, the stakes are thriving, that the church is growing... to what gain would they have to lie until their grave about the fact that they're apostles and prophets? Sure, we've been warned about false teachers in these last days, and I firmly believe that we should pray about anything the prophets and apostles say... but for the most part of my life, it's always been confirmations that the words they speak are true. So, now that they talk about a vaccine, everything they've said in the past is discredited?

I could keep going on and on here about just how confused I am about this all. In the end, I believe in Jesus Christ. He's the one that can change our thoughts and actions. He's the only to which salvation comes. I believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints to be His church on earth... is it perfect? No. Are the people in it perfect? No. But I believe the teachings and gospel principles that it has taught me throughout my life to have completely made me into the man I am today. I've been atheist in the past... it all just seems much simpler, but it never brought me joy. Now I see my parents discrediting and taking the testimony of things that brought me joy in my life... and it just hurts.

Any thoughts would be welcomed wholeheartedly. I'm just here to learn. Thanks!

You probably do not need to over think it. You read the Book of Mormon and believe that it is true. The book is more complex than a farm boy could write. There is nothing that leads you away from Christ. It is a good book. Together with the Bible, a person could study for a hundred years and never understand it all. Your body has a built-in truth meter. After you read for a while, you see things that are not spelled out, but they are there anyway. They add to your understanding.

People lie, cheat, and steal. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes on accident. When you make a serious attempt to understand the scriptures and to live a life that God approves of, your ability to discern truth increases. One of the hazards of digging too deep, is that you can get side tracked on a tangent, that may have no actual significance, even though it seems to.

We have all been around people that are highly spiritual. We have also been around people that are evil. What would Jesus do? can be helpful to think about.

How many preachers are sure they have it right, but do not? Often, they have found some truth, but overlook other truth. One must seek truth, wherever it is.

Once your foundation of truth is established, you can measure possible truths against what you already know to be true. You can not trust anyone's opinion just because they have man made credentials. Every reporter on earth lies if s/he says we are experiencing a pandemic. A total lie. No truth to it whatsoever. Every doctor on earth lies if s/he says that Ivermectin does not stop covid. Any person that says masks are effective in stopping covid is a liar. Any person that says the covid shots are either safe or effective is a liar. It is not even possible that I am wrong on this.

So when a person lies to you, and you know for a fact it is a lie, even if they tell you God told them to lie, you have to analyze their motives. There sure are a lot of incredibly stupid parents out there. Being a parent does not make one right. There sure are a lot of evil preachers that do evil on purpose in order to deceive. Being a preacher does not make one correct.

So, when a person of supposed authority lies to you, and it is an obvious lie, an easily proved lie, and wants you to trust him in his lie based on his reputation, like RMN calling satan's juice a godsend, then you know he is a liar, that he does NOT represent God, that his purpose is deception, then you know he is a disciple of satan and not God. Once you know this, you have no need to ever believe a single thing he says. Once a person is a proven liar, doing so on purpose with the intent to deceive, remove yourself from their influence, no matter who they are.

Here is the thing about the scriptures. They can be your rock. Because even if there is a mistake, it is still the best way to live. It is the correct way to believe, and to live, and to determine truth. So when a person claims to be a prophet, yet tells you something completely contrary to the scriptures, you need not waste any time with the prick. God is not going to punish you for following His word and living according to it.

So then, all you have to do is discard the rubbish that people attempt to force on you. If a doctor tells you to get a shot so your neighbor won't get sick, you can instantly know for certain that he is an evil liar that intends to do you harm. Same thing if he claims to be a prophet instead of a doctor. Just say "It is unfortunate that you are so incredibly stupid. Fortunately, I am not. Therefore, never contact me again for as long as you live. I have no need of liars in my life."

Then it is a walk in the park. You can surround yourself with good people or bad people. Success is a choice. If someone tells you that you have to risk your life and get a shot with no known benefit, just say no and be glad that you are not that stupid. Money is far too easy to earn to work for someone that would just as soon kill you.

Fear not!

What if what the prophet tells you doesn't match up with the scriptures but they tell you they've had new revelation and now your temple worthiness is based on it? (Lookin at you word of wisdom and tithing)

Well, if you can handle watching a fairy in a hair bun narrate the dialog between President Joseph F. Smith and Congress, you will see that the prophet in his own words explains that there is no revelation as it is all just BS and there has been none since Joseph.

It is a matter of public record. Of course, a TBM might accuse the profit of being a liar. Gee, where does this go? JFS was speaking to Congress under oath.

[Serragon]

The gospel was such a simple, elegant and beautiful thing to me. Christ came to earth, established His church, taught principles and doctrines that will lead us to a path of happiness both in this life and the next. People rejected him, he died for our sins to pay the price that we couldn't. Joseph Smith came and reorganized His church with prophets apostles, evangelists, etc... to lead and guide us. If we repent, are baptized, and endure to end (heed to the teaching of prophets both modern and old), we will be saved. Simple. Obviously it sounds simple, but it's not an easy feat in this life, and we've all stumbled, but we can repent and get back on the correct path.

Now, I came back from my mission 1.5 years ago now. I came home early because of Covid-19. My parents had been studying a lot while I was gone, and nowadays I come to find out that those simple things I was taught are a lot more complex and or completely false.

To start off. The vaccine has been a huge discussion in our household. I still haven't been vaccinated, but with mandates on the rise, and what I feel is a life to live with jobs, college, travel, etc... I may be too worldly or something, but I've liked the life I've lived, and I hate the feeling of not doing what I love to do in life... I feel trapped in a sense. I've never been a partier or anything, I just wanna work.

On one hand, the vaccine to me seems like an okay thing. I had to get like 5 vaccinations to travel to my mission... I never got sick on my mission. On the other hand though, I'm learning that the vaccine is being tested on fetal cells from an aborted baby from 40 years ago (which personally I hate, there has to be a better way to get those cells for testing) and that the vaccine is the mark of the beast. Which doctrinally I disagree on. I believe the mark of the beast, a mark placed on the hand and forehead, to be a direct callback to the SHEMA, which is a prayer of allegiance to God... whereas the mark of the beast would be essentially the anti-Shema, something that declares allegiance to the devil. Which personally I don't believe those who are taking the vaccine are declaring allegiance to the devil. Now I won't discredit the fact that there's a lot of places closing and potentially there could be a time when you couldn't buy or sell without a vaccine, which could tie to being the mark of the beast, but I've yet to see this manifest completely... maybe in terms of travel and now with finding jobs... but can anyone explain to me why taking a vaccine would be declaring allegiance to the devil if my thoughts and actions are essentially the same before and after taking the vaccine?

Now this brings me onto the next conflict in my family. The prophets and apostles of these latter days are false. Now this doubt of course came about in our family once the prophet declared the vaccine to be safe & effective... but now we've gone down a rabbit hole of sorts now learning that Brigham Young potentially killed Joseph Smith in order for polygamy to stay around & to take control of the church. Like, what?! I can't wrap my mind around this logic yet. For starters, what about the witness statements attesting to the fact that liberty jail had been raided and non-lds people attested to that fact (https://famous-trials.com/carthrage/1262-home). My question in this case has been, what did Brigham Young have to gain? Also, if this is the case, why has the church been so prosperous... why has the Lord allowed such a church, that would kill His prophet to remain & thrive on earth. One could argue about the Catholic Church, and how it has prospered... so I don't know.

This also brings up, what doctrines in the church are true or false at this point. The church has had control of pretty much every conceivable document since the death of Joseph Smith... if they wanted to change something, they could and we'd pretty much be none the wiser. Are temple ordinances even real? Where are the falsities there? Why do I feel the spirit at church or in the Temple if it was supposedly built by false teachers?

I taught a lot of people on my mission, and those who came to church, always felt a difference from other churches.

Nowadays my parents are basically saying to rely on themselves to be their own prophets... which sure, I believe is partly true. But also, isn't this how the confusion of doctrines was started in the first place? Some people say something here, others have a different opinion there... eventually it leads to chaos, just like what Joseph Smith was facing in his day.

The other question here is, all of the prophets and apostles I feel have nothing to gain. Most of them made a ton of money before they were apostles, and I believe the job of an apostle to be pretty hectic. They are each responsible for parts of the earth, to make sure the missions are running well, the stakes are thriving, that the church is growing... to what gain would they have to lie until their grave about the fact that they're apostles and prophets? Sure, we've been warned about false teachers in these last days, and I firmly believe that we should pray about anything the prophets and apostles say... but for the most part of my life, it's always been confirmations that the words they speak are true. So, now that they talk about a vaccine, everything they've said in the past is discredited?

I could keep going on and on here about just how confused I am about this all. In the end, I believe in Jesus Christ. He's the one that can change our thoughts and actions. He's the only to which salvation comes. I believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints to be His church on earth... is it perfect? No. Are the people in it perfect? No. But I believe the teachings and gospel principles that it has taught me throughout my life to have completely made me into the man I am today. I've been atheist in the past... it all just seems much simpler, but it never brought me joy. Now I see my parents discrediting and taking the testimony of things that brought me joy in my life... and it just hurts.

Any thoughts would be welcomed wholeheartedly. I'm just here to learn. Thanks!

You probably do not need to over think it. You read the Book of Mormon and believe that it is true. The book is more complex than a farm boy could write. There is nothing that leads you away from Christ. It is a good book. Together with the Bible, a person could study for a hundred years and never understand it all. Your body has a built-in truth meter. After you read for a while, you see things that are not spelled out, but they are there anyway. They add to your understanding.

People lie, cheat, and steal. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes on accident. When you make a serious attempt to understand the scriptures and to live a life that God approves of, your ability to discern truth increases. One of the hazards of digging too deep, is that you can get side tracked on a tangent, that may have no actual significance, even though it seems to.

We have all been around people that are highly spiritual. We have also been around people that are evil. What would Jesus do? can be helpful to think about.

How many preachers are sure they have it right, but do not? Often, they have found some truth, but overlook other truth. One must seek truth, wherever it is.

Once your foundation of truth is established, you can measure possible truths against what you already know to be true. You can not trust anyone's opinion just because they have man made credentials. Every reporter on earth lies if s/he says we are experiencing a pandemic. A total lie. No truth to it whatsoever. Every doctor on earth lies if s/he says that Ivermectin does not stop covid. Any person that says masks are effective in stopping covid is a liar. Any person that says the covid shots are either safe or effective is a liar. It is not even possible that I am wrong on this.

So when a person lies to you, and you know for a fact it is a lie, even if they tell you God told them to lie, you have to analyze their motives. There sure are a lot of incredibly stupid parents out there. Being a parent does not make one right. There sure are a lot of evil preachers that do evil on purpose in order to deceive. Being a preacher does not make one correct.

So, when a person of supposed authority lies to you, and it is an obvious lie, an easily proved lie, and wants you to trust him in his lie based on his reputation, like RMN calling satan's juice a godsend, then you know he is a liar, that he does NOT represent God, that his purpose is deception, then you know he is a disciple of satan and not God. Once you know this, you have no need to ever believe a single thing he says. Once a person is a proven liar, doing so on purpose with the intent to deceive, remove yourself from their influence, no matter who they are.

Here is the thing about the scriptures. They can be your rock. Because even if there is a mistake, it is still the best way to live. It is the correct way to believe, and to live, and to determine truth. So when a person claims to be a prophet, yet tells you something completely contrary to the scriptures, you need not waste any time with the prick. God is not going to punish you for following His word and living according to it.

So then, all you have to do is discard the rubbish that people attempt to force on you. If a doctor tells you to get a shot so your neighbor won't get sick, you can instantly know for certain that he is an evil liar that intends to do you harm. Same thing if he claims to be a prophet instead of a doctor. Just say "It is unfortunate that you are so incredibly stupid. Fortunately, I am not. Therefore, never contact me again for as long as you live. I have no need of liars in my life."

Then it is a walk in the park. You can surround yourself with good people or bad people. Success is a choice. If someone tells you that you have to risk your life and get a shot with no known benefit, just say no and be glad that you are not that stupid. Money is far too easy to earn to work for someone that would just as soon kill you.

Fear not!

What if what the prophet tells you doesn't match up with the scriptures but they tell you they've had new revelation and now your temple worthiness is based on it? (Lookin at you word of wisdom and tithing)

Just start living these laws and principles as the Lord gave them, as there has been no revelation provided to change either of these revelations since they were given to Joseph. Simply answer yes when asked about them in your TR interview.

[GeeR]

If the church is false, then how would any of the covenants inside of the temple be true?

They aren't!

Or was it in service of a false church?

Bingo!

Of course Jesus Christ is the only one who can bring about my salvation in the end, but is the path clear without the church?

Yes, it's clear without this apostate corporate church! The scriptures are replete with instances where the people failed to obey the Lord and when plan A failed he always a plan B in the offing. Think plan B and you'll be fine!